The Hidden Cost of Splitting the Scrum Master Role — And Why Stance Changes Make or Break Your Impact | Efe Gümüs

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches
Episode: The Hidden Cost of Splitting the Scrum Master Role — And Why Stance Changes Make or Break Your Impact | Efe Gümüs
Date: April 13, 2026
Host: Vasco Duarte
Guest: Efe Gümüs, Agile Coach & Scrum Master

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Overview

This episode explores the practical and often overlooked challenges of splitting the Scrum Master role with other responsibilities—such as being a developer—and how stance changes (switching between mindsets and responsibilities) deeply impact effectiveness. Efe Gümüs shares honest stories from his journey, reflecting on failures, lessons learned regarding facilitation, and how clear expectation setting with peers and stakeholders drives impactful Agile practice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Efe’s Entry into Scrum Mastery and Dual Roles

• Background: Efe started as a network operation automation engineer but was quickly encouraged to try the Scrum Master role while still developing.
• Challenge: Balancing the dual role as both Scrum Master and developer proved “rocky”.
  • Stance Changes: Switching between problem-solver (developer) and facilitator/coach (Scrum Master) was exceptionally difficult, especially without much work experience.
• Quote:
  • “The biggest problem, like back then I didn’t realize this, but the biggest problem when I reflect on it right now is the stance changes.” — Efe Gümüs [03:25]

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2. The Hidden Costs and Pitfalls of Role Splitting

• Neutrality vs. Involvement:
  • Efe speaks about the delicate balance needed when facilitating as a Scrum Master versus being hands on in technical solutions.
  • Over-involvement: Can lead to perceived overstepping or establishing unwanted authority.
  • Under-involvement: Leads to being “out of reach or out of touch” and not adding real value.
• Top-down vs. Bottom-up Transformation:
  • Tools and solutions were being imposed rather than co-created, lacking buy-in from the teams.
• Quote:
  • “We were creating tools and solutions but we were not co-creating them. We were conducting the transformation, but like a project. It was not transformation from bottom up.” — Efe Gümüs [05:47]

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3. The Importance of Managing and Negotiating Expectations

• Practices:
  • Efe recommends having explicit conversations about what’s expected from Agile coaches and Scrum Masters in terms of help, facilitation, and coaching.
  • An “expectation matrix” helps clarify roles for everyone involved.
• When to Step In or Step Back:
  • Urgency sometimes justifies direct intervention but should not become the default mode.
  • Setting boundaries and discussing them openly with teams avoids misaligned assumptions.
• Quote:
  • “What you can do to make things better is always having an expectation matrix or expectation facilitation… How can I assist solving this problem with you or help you own the problem, as you also said before, and not just taking things in our own hands every time.” — Efe Gümüs [07:15]

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4. Challenging the Status Quo and “Peer” Relationships

• Story:
  • Efe recounts an alignment call with other Scrum Masters which felt hierarchical and not collaborative.
  • He intervened mid-session, inviting the group to restructure the session to focus on co-creation, open requests, and actionable help.
  • Facilitator’s role is not to dictate but to create an environment where mutual support and clear requests happen.
• Quote:
  • “I took over the initiative and created a facilitation… where we co-create the flow of the session… Please state where do you need help, where should I step in as an Agile coach and how can I actually take an action.” — Efe Gümüs [09:09]

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5. The Power of Explicit Conversations

• Vasco’s Reflection:
  • Often, agile practitioners simply accept unhelpful formats or structures instead of pausing and renegotiating. Raising a hand early to clarify responsibilities and expectations can prevent future friction.
• Quote:
  • “If we don't discuss them, we can't get to that negotiated agreement. I really like how you phrase that…” — Vasco Duarte [08:10]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “As Scrum Masters, your job is to help teams own the solution, not solve the problem.” — Vasco Duarte [04:01]
• “If you get too involved, then you’re overstepping the boundary of a Scrum Master. If you’re too far away, then you are non-existent.” — Efe Gümüs [05:00]
• “I want to approach this in a way where we actually co-create the flow… One small action from my side can actually bring their problem to the solution in two or three steps. But if I don’t get the request, I don’t know about it. So I cannot just proactively try to solve problems.” — Efe Gümüs [09:22]

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Important Timestamps

• [01:57] Efe introduces his path to Scrum Mastery and early struggles with role division
• [03:25] Discussing the difficulty of stance changes between developer and Scrum Master
• [04:46] Efe’s story about failing to balance involvement as a coach and the consequences
• [05:47] Critique on top-down agile transformation lacking genuine co-creation
• [07:15] Framework for negotiating and setting expectations with teams and stakeholders
• [09:09] Real experience restructuring a collaboration session among Scrum Masters

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Takeaways for Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches

• Don’t Split the Role Lightly: Splitting Scrum Master duties with other responsibilities can undermine both neutrality and effectiveness.
• Stance Changes Are Critical: Be intentional about switching between “problem solver” and “facilitator/coach”—recognize when each is needed.
• Make Expectations Explicit: Proactively negotiate roles and interventions to preserve trust and effectiveness.
• Facilitate, Don’t Dictate: Enable peer-level collaboration and co-creation by adapting sessions to meet everyone's needs.
• Challenge Assumptions Early: Question established formats or authority structures if they don’t serve team needs.

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This summary provides a pragmatic, transparent look at the daily realities and subtle traps of Agile coaching, highlighting the need for candor, adaptability, and intentional stance management.

Transcript

[A]

Hello everyone. Quick heads up before we start today's episode. The Global Agile Summit is happening on May 4th. Yes, May 4th. And even with a big blowout Star wars party you have to join. It will be online and it's like always free to attend. We have four tracks this year that I'm really excited about and I think you will too. Stick around to the end of the episode to know what they are. If you want to check it out already now you can check it out at bit ly globalagile 26. That's the numerals 2 and 6 at the end. So one more time, that's bit ly globalagile 2, 6, all one word, all lowercase and 2 and 6 are the numerals 2 and 6. So stick around till the end of the episode and I'll tell you what's in store. But for now, on to today's episode. Hello everybody. Welcome to one more week of the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. And this week, joining us, from what I hear is a beautiful weatherly Germany is Effe Gumusch. Hey Efe, welcome to the show.

[B]

Hey Vasco, good to be here. Thanks a lot for the invitation.

[A]

Absolutely. So EFE is an out of the box Agile coach and Scrum Master who brings fresh perspectives to Agile by connecting it with everyday life. He uses metaphors to reveal mindset patterns and applies continuous feedback loops beyond work, including music production, gym training, constantly refining performance, creativity, personal growth and resilience. Of course, feedback is useful in all of those domains and more. Ewe, take a minute, tell us a little bit more about yourself and how did you end up becoming a Scrum Master?

[B]

Yeah, like my Scrum Master journey was actually a rocky one because like when I first started working, like in my first work experience, I started as network operation automation engineer. That was my first ever job. But like it was a management trainee program so I didn't have any other experience. I was an electrical and electronics engineer fresh out of the college and started by development. And yeah, like after that I had another, I relocated in another squad or in another team in the same organization. And in that team we had part time Scrum Master and part time developer roles and which like since I was also like a younger employee, my manager also asked me to try this out and that's how I actually took my first step into the Scrum. We had amazing agile coaches, also external ones and internal ones that were assisting us in the journey. But it was also hard to balance it out 5050 with the developer role and the Scrum Master role, what made

[A]

it specifically hard for you in that context at that time? What made it hard for you to have that split role between Scrum Master and developer?

[B]

I think the biggest problem, like back then I didn't realize this, but the biggest problem when like when I reflect on it right now is the stance changes. Because as a Scrum Master we have to like as Scrum Masters we have to establish our impartiality when we are facilitating and when we are coaching and being inexperienced also in work life. And having this double role made the stance change a little harder.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Especially when as a developer your mind quickly focuses on problem solving, finding problems, solving them and so on. And as an agile coach or a Scrum Master, your job is to help teams own the solution, not solve the problem. Right. Like that alone would be a great difference and I can imagine that that didn't get any easier at least in some point in your journey. Because of course today's Monday. We're talking about fail Monday here. So we want to hear that story. A story where you tried your best but in that moment the best just wasn't good enough. So tell us that story. We'll dive into the takeaways and the lessons learned later. But tell us that story first.

[B]

Yeah, sure. Like it's actually like there's nuts. I wish there was only one story. There are lots of to pick from but I would also like to stay relevant. So one of the biggest challenges that I had is as also like agile coaches or like even like Scrum Masters agile coaches. It doesn't matter what role we have, it's basically the scope that we are actually influencing or like having an impact on. As an agile coach it was like super hard for me to figure out the correct facilitation or like coaching or position to coach the organization, to coach the teams. Because if you get too involved then like you're becoming, you're over overstepping the boundary of a Scrum master. If you're like too far away then you are non existent. And I had like problems with both. Like in some cases I overtook the Scrum master role and like it also like created some type of an authority which was not like pleasant. And at some point I was like too far away which was like I was out of reach or like out of touch with the community of the, of the organization. And the biggest problem there was like yes, like we were creating tools and solutions but we were not co creating them. We were not like we were like conducting the transformation but like A project. It was not like transformation from bottom up and something.

[A]

What do you think? Like from your experience, what do you think leads us in. In each of those directions? Right. Like where sometimes as agile coaches we want to kind of step in and take over and get it solved and maybe because we're in a hurry and there's a lot of pressure on us and then other times we're kind of stepping back, maybe we're too busy, whatever. Like what, what takes us in those two opposite directions?

[B]

I think it's about the expectation, basically. What like as an agile coach or as a scrum master, what you can do to make things better is always like having like an expectation matrix or like expectation facilitation. What can I do for you? Or how can I assist solving this problem with you or like help you solve the problem or for you to own the problem, as you also said before, and not just taking things in our own hands in every time and just solving it. Of course there is always an urgency. There are certain urgency topics inside every organization that if you have the capabilities to fix that out and if it's actually it has like a lower sla, then you have to take it over. But of course, like not every single time.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. I like how you talk about setting expectations, clearly having a discussion about expectations because we all come in with a lot of history, right? Like the people we are coaching have their history. Ourselves, we have our history. And there's a lot of expectations that are inbuilt into how we look at the role we have and how we look at the role others have. But if we don't discuss them, we can't get to that negotiated agreement. Right. So I really like how you phrase that. Do you have something to share with us on how that has worked well for you, setting those expectations, negotiating those expectations with your stakeholders?

[B]

Yes, actually something that like we had a call. Okay. And we with the scrum Masters. And honestly that call was just like, like structured as like an alignment call. And like it was not. The information was not flowing both ways or V. Did not like, it did not feel for me or. And like some of the also like more senior scrum Masters, it did not feel for us that like it was an even ground. Like, it felt like there was like an authority. It felt like we were not peers. And I had to also, like, as the facilitator of the, of the session, I took over the initiative and like created a facilitation on. Okay. Like we have this like, structure, but based on the Prior experience is also like, based on your feedback, I feel like this is not working. So I want to approach this in a way where we actually co create the flow of the session where it will be more functional. Let's just like structure the session in a way that would benefit the both of us. And please state where do you need help? Where should I step in as an Agile coach and how can I actually take an action? One small action from my side can actually bring their problem to the solution in two or three steps. But if I don't get the request, I don't know about it. So I cannot just proactively try to solve problems.

[A]

Absolutely. One of the things that you said there, like, stop the session, set the stage, hey, this isn't being helpful for me, right? Like what I need is can we talk about and then list the things? Because often, especially in corporate settings, we are often kind of pushed to this implicit acceptance of the structure that is there and we never get to challenge it. And because we get involved with it, then later on it's too late because we are already part of it. We're already part of that implicit expectation setting that was done when we didn't raise the hand and say, hey, wait, wait a minute, this isn't clear enough for me. Can we please have a conversation about and then list whatever like responsibilities, boundaries, whatever that that might be really like that story. So thank you for sharing that with us, fa.

[B]

Of course. Thank you.

[A]

Hi there friends. Thanks for sticking around till the end of the episode. So let me tell you what's coming on May 4th. We're running the Global Agile Summit. It will be online and I want you there this year. We have four tracks and each one is built around real conversations with practitioners. No slides, no keynote theater, just honest interviews with people doing the work, just like you. The first track is AI in organizations where practitioners show what actually works. No hype, just AI that makes your Monday better. Happy Monday everybody. And then we have the People track. Honest conversations about putting humans at the center of how we work and keeping them there. And third is Agile in construction. And yes, I really mean brick and mortar construction. Lean and Agile. Actual job sites. Field leaders removing waste. Teams transforming how buildings get built. Stay tuned for what I think will be a super track on Agile in construction. And the fourth track is is Agile in Gaming. How Game Studios Ship without Burning out Agile Inside the Creative Pressure Cooker. Over the years, we've had more than 12,000 participants. Since 2017, the time of the first summit organized with the podcast and this year we're making it easier than ever to join. You can register for free and get access to the summit sessions live during the event week. That's May 4th to May 6th. Or you can grab the Practitioner Pass and get immediate access to last year's keynotes from Jurgen Apollo, Gojko Adzic and Mirette Cangas right now, even before the summit starts. So grab your Practitioner Pass and start learning today. Head on over to Bitly GlobalAgile 26. That's 2, 6. The numerals 2 and 6 sign up and I'll see you on May 4th. And one more time, here we go. Bit. Ly. GlobalAgile 26. All lowercase, all one word. And 26. That's the numeral 2 and the numeral 6. I'll see you on the conference floor.