The Importance of Addressing Conflicts Early in Agile Teams | Karthiga Seturaj

Summary

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile Storytelling from the Trenches

Episode: The Importance of Addressing Conflicts Early in Agile Teams
Guest: Karthiga Seturaj
Release Date: December 16, 2024
Host: Vasco Duarte

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Introduction

In this episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte welcomes Karthiga Seturaj, a seasoned Agile Coach and Certified Scrum Master with over 15 years of experience in the software industry. The conversation delves deep into the critical role of Scrum Masters in managing and resolving conflicts within Agile teams, highlighting the importance of early intervention to maintain team harmony and productivity.

Guest Background

Karthiga Seturaj brings a wealth of experience to the table, having traversed various roles in the software industry, from developer and tester to business analyst and ultimately, Agile Coach. Her transition to Agile methodologies began in 2011 when her previous organization shifted from a traditional waterfall approach to Agile practices. This pivotal moment inspired her to pursue Scrum Master training, marking the beginning of her impactful journey in Agile coaching.

“That was my first introduction to agile ways of working. … That's when I decided to switch from a technical hands on the keyboard role to a Scrum Master role.”
— Karthiga Seturaj [03:26]

A Challenging Conflict: A Real-Life Scenario

Karthiga shares a compelling story from her early days as a Scrum Master, illustrating the complexities of managing interpersonal conflicts within Agile teams.

The Conflict

One of the initial teams Karthiga worked with faced significant friction between the product owner and the engineering leader. Their disagreements on prioritization and role responsibilities created a toxic environment, leading to unhealthy confrontations during refinement meetings. This tension not only hampered team morale but also threatened the overall productivity and cohesion of the team.

“They were basically operating in silos. So the engineering leader and the product owner would often kind of get into arguments on prioritization … which was obviously unhealthy, unproductive, and even detrimental to the teams.”
— Karthiga Seturaj [06:09]

Karthiga’s Initial Struggles

As a relatively new Scrum Master, Karthiga found it challenging to confront the entrenched leaders. The fear of overstepping and the potential risk to her position made her hesitant to address the conflicts directly, leading to escalation that required senior leadership intervention. This resulted in personnel changes and restructuring, underscoring the severity of the unresolved tensions.

“But our things got escalated. In our long story short, the senior leadership had to interfere and some folks left and some of them had to be moved, restructured.”
— Karthiga Seturaj [07:00]

Key Lessons Learned

From this challenging experience, Karthiga extracts several critical lessons that are invaluable for Scrum Masters navigating similar situations.

1. Courage and Confrontation

Being a Scrum Master demands a significant amount of courage, especially when it involves addressing conflicts among senior leaders. Karthiga emphasizes the necessity of confronting issues head-on, even when it feels uncomfortable.

“You need a lot of courage, even if it means confronting your immediate supervisor. … That's what being a Scrum Master is all about.”
— Karthiga Seturaj [08:00]

2. Timely Engagement with Leadership

Proactively involving executive sponsors and leadership before conflicts escalate is crucial. Delaying crucial conversations can render interventions ineffective.

“Engaging the executive sponsor leadership on time before it's too late.”
— Karthiga Seturaj [08:19]

3. Empowering Team Voices

Encouraging teams to voice their concerns and feedback can provide Scrum Masters with the necessary data to address conflicts effectively. This grassroots approach ensures that solutions are grounded in the team's real experiences.

“Empowering the teams to voice their opinion on time.”
— Karthiga Seturaj [08:19]

Adapting with Experience: How Karthiga Would Act Differently

Reflecting on her experience, Karthiga discusses how her approach has evolved with increased clarity and understanding of Agile principles.

Data-Driven Conversations

Armed with data from retrospectives and team feedback, Karthiga would now approach conflicting leaders with concrete evidence of how their disagreements are impacting the team.

“I would definitely approach them, let them know that they have their own roles and responsibilities … and approaching them with data.”
— Karthiga Seturaj [09:14]

Structured Feedback Sharing

Sharing specific feedback from the team about the negative atmosphere during meetings provides leaders with a clear picture of the repercussions of their behavior.

“We don't feel comfortable. It's very awkward when … they are kind of having an argument, heated argument in front of us.”
— Karthiga Seturaj [09:25]

Strategies for Scrum Masters

Vasco Duarte builds on Karthiga’s insights by suggesting additional strategies for Scrum Masters facing similar dilemmas.

Seeking Mediation and Support

When direct confrontation feels daunting, involving other Scrum Masters or Agile Coaches as mediators can provide the necessary support and facilitate effective communication between conflicting parties.

“Another option is to talk to other Scrum Masters, to agile coaches that are in the organization and say, hey, I have this issue, can you help me out?”
— Vasco Duarte [10:25]

Embracing Community Support

Recognizing that Scrum Masters often feel isolated in their responsibilities, Duarte emphasizes the importance of leveraging the broader Agile community for guidance and support.

“We are not alone … there's a community of people inside and outside the organization that we can tap into and get help.”
— Vasco Duarte [11:09]

Conclusion: Embracing the Role with Confidence and Community

The episode concludes with a reaffirmation of the essential qualities required for effective Scrum Masters—courage, proactive engagement, and community support. Karthiga acknowledges her initial reluctance to seek help but recognizes its value in overcoming challenges.

“Personally, I don't easily ask for help, but that's something that I should probably do.”
— Karthiga Seturaj [11:48]

Vasco Duarte encourages listeners to engage with the Scrum Master community, highlighting the podcast itself as a platform for sharing stories and mutual support.

“That's why I started this whole podcast, so that we could all help each other … share our stories.”
— Vasco Duarte [11:58]

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Key Takeaways

1. Courage is Crucial: Scrum Masters must possess the bravery to address conflicts directly, even when it involves senior leadership.
2. Early Intervention: Addressing conflicts promptly prevents escalation and fosters a healthier team environment.
3. Data-Driven Approach: Utilizing team feedback and data makes conversations with conflicting parties more impactful and objective.
4. Empower Team Voices: Encouraging team members to share their experiences and concerns provides valuable insights for conflict resolution.
5. Seek Support: Leveraging the Agile community and seeking mediation can alleviate the pressures and challenges faced by Scrum Masters.
6. Continuous Learning: Reflecting on past experiences and adapting strategies enhances the effectiveness of Scrum Masters in managing team dynamics.

Final Thoughts

Karthiga Seturaj's insights offer a profound understanding of the nuanced role Scrum Masters play in Agile teams. By sharing her real-life experiences and the lessons learned, she provides actionable advice for Scrum Masters aiming to enhance their conflict resolution skills and foster a collaborative team environment. The episode underscores the importance of courage, timely engagement, and community support in the journey to becoming an effective Scrum Master.

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If you found this summary insightful, consider tuning into the full episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast for a deeper dive into Agile storytelling and practical strategies from experienced practitioners.

Transcript

[Vasco Duarte]

Hey, how are you doing? I'm Vasco Duarte, your host on the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast and I've got some exciting news. So right now, as I record this, I'm holding in my hand the signed contract for our very first Global Agile Summit. We're all in and I couldn't wait to share this news with you. So mark your calendars. May 18th, 20th of 2025 in Tallinn, Estonia. We're going to have a transformative experience. We're putting together an event that is all about real life Agile. It's not theory or buzzwords, it's practitioners sharing what's working, what's making an impact, and how they've overcome challenges that you too will have to face, or maybe even facing. Right now, we're bringing together the best stories in Agile. From product leaders to engineering wizards to business, these will be stories that will inspire you to action. This isn't just another conference. It's a chance to connect with the people that are shaping the future of Agile.

[Unknown Host]

And here's the best part.

[Vasco Duarte]

Right now we're in our super early bird phase and that means you can grab tickets at just 25% of the final price. Look, that's not just half off, it's half off of the half off. It's an incredible deal for our dedicated community members, just like you listening to this right now. So at the summit, day one will be all about hands on workshops. And days two and three, we'll dive into leadership, product strategy, coding, testing, and everything that makes Agile thrive in organizations. Right now, remember, these are all first person, real life stories. Now whether you're a leader, a developer or part of a consulting company, this event is built to take your Agile game to the next level. So don't wait. Go to globalagilesummit.com and grab your ticket. Today, let's all make 2025 the year agile truly transforms your teams, your business and our industry. I'll see you all in Tallinn. And Remember, go to globalagilesummit.com and get your super early bird ticket right now. It will only be available until the agenda is announced, so don't wait. Grab it right now. Right now that that's out of the way, onto the episode.

[Unknown Host]

Hello, everybody. Welcome to one more week of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast. And this week, joining us from the US is Kartiga Seturaj. Hey Kartiga, welcome to the show.

[Kartiga Seturaj]

Hey Vasco. So nice to be here today.

[Unknown Host]

Absolutely. So Kartika is a dedicated agilist with over 15 years experience in the software industry. She specializes in coaching agile teams emphasizing respect, inclusion, accountability and outcomes. Her journey spans from Scrum Master to manager of Agile coaches, transforming teams and driving impactful changes. So Kartiga, that was a short intro. Tell us a little bit more about yourself and how did you end up becoming a Scrum Master?

[Kartiga Seturaj]

Yeah, absolutely. So I've been in the software industry for 15 years and I have played pretty much all the roles right from a developer to a tester business analyst, all the way through being an Agile coach. So when I was a software developer I used to work on traditional waterfall methodology like 15 years ago. @ that time I had no idea about what agile and sometime in 2011 one of my organization, previous organizations went through the transformation from waterfall to agile. So I was put through the Scrum Master training and that was my first introduction to agile ways of working. But I have come across some of the techniques like KZN and tpm, tts, TQM in my college days. So I have industrial engineering background but I never knew that those concepts could be applied to knowledge work. So it was like a aha moment for me where I felt, you know, so impressed by how Agile could impact in a software delivery coming from a non software background. So that's when I decided to switch from a technical hands on the keyboard role to a Scrum Master role. And I have never looked back since then. So the last seven to eight years I've been a Scrum Master slash Agile coach of course.

[Unknown Host]

And what a great story because as you say, a lot of the things that Agile kind of revived, I think we could say come from a long pedigree of evolution and improvement in other industries like TPS and tqm, Total quality management and the Toyota production system that you refer to now. When you started as a Scrum Master you had that background from industry or other industries. I don't know if that has anything to do with the story you have to share with us, but I know that it's quite a change to go from an engineering industry, or let's say heavy engineering industry, to a software industry because they are quite different. And we've been doing a series of interviews here on the podcast published recently where we talk about the differences that hardware requires. I don't know if you're going to talk about that, but Kartige, share with us that story of a moment where you as a Scrum Master you did your best, but as it so often happens, the best just wasn't good enough. And of course we want to Explore that, because we want to learn from what you went through and apply that to our own work. So tell us that story first. We'll dive into the takeaways and lessons learned later. But tell us that story, Kartiga.

[Kartiga Seturaj]

Sure. So one of the first teams that I worked with in the software industry as a Scrum Master, they had some issues between product engineering leadership. They had some issues on who should do what. They were basically operating in silos. So the engineering leader and the product owner would often kind of get into arguments on prioritization and when should the team work on what. So this led to a lot of tension at the team level. In refinement meetings, the two of them would be arguing in front of a team, which was obviously unhealthy, unproductive, and even detrimental to the teams. I was new to the company. I was fairly new to the role, though I have experience in software. I wasn't really comfortable to confront the leaders and tell them that they are wrong and how they are stepping on each other's stove and how all this is impacting the team's morale. But our things got escalated in our long story short, the senior leadership had to interfere and some folks left and some of them had to be moved, restructured. But the most important takeaway for me from this particular situation is being a Scrum Master. You need a lot of courage, even if it means confronting your immediate supervisor. You should be brave enough to do that. A lot of them might not be comfortable doing it because it's not easy, because your job itself is at stake. Take. But that's what being a Scrum Master is all about. It's a very unique role in the entire organization, which calls for unique capabilities and characteristics. So that was a lesson learned from that particular situation. Engaging the executive sponsor leadership on time before it's too late. And you should never delay having those crucial conversations, the things that you need to have on time, unless there is no point in raising it when it's too late. And also empowering the teams to voice their opinion on time.

[Unknown Host]

One of the things that comes to mind from the story that you shared is that we will not always be comfortable, right? So we will not always be in a position where we feel that we have the authority, the credibility, the trust to interfere, to intervene. But we can lead the team in that intervention, right? Like we can talk to the team and collect their feedback and then bring it to the leaders that are in conflict, at least to try to raise awareness of the conflict that is happening in front of the team and the consequences that has when you look at that story and you think about that moment and where you were at the time, but now with the knowledge and the experience that you have today, how would you have acted differently at the time?

[Kartiga Seturaj]

Yep. So if it was me, I mean, if it was going to happen today, I would definitely approach it differently now. I definitely have more clarity and understanding on what it takes to have those conversations, those crucial conversations with the right person at the right time. So even if it's going to be my immediate supervisor, my boss, based on all the experience that I've gained so far, I would say I would definitely approach them, let them know that they have their own roles and responsibilities and this is what is expected of them and what is not expected of them and how this is impacting the teams and also approaching them with data. So whenever there is data to back what you're seeing, it's even more impactful. I got feedback from Retros at that time, from the teams. They were like, there's a lot of tension and reference refinement meetings. We don't feel comfortable. It's very awkward when, you know, the two leaders are kind of having an argument, heated argument in front of us. So kind of sharing that feedback with them upfront and making sure that they understand how their actions are impacting the teams.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. Well, one of the things that also comes to my mind is that we might not feel comfortable taking the lead, but we might, even though we are new in an organization, we might know someone who could help us, like be a mediator. Right. And I think it's also important for us to ask for help when we don't feel comfortable. Right. Like one thing is to take other routes like talk to leadership, talk to the team, bring up the data as you suggest. But also another option is to talk to other Scrum Masters, to agile coaches that are in the organization and say, hey, I have this issue, can you help me out? Can you help me set up a conversation about it? Or something like that.

[Kartiga Seturaj]

Yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah. Now that you say that. Yeah, definitely. That's another approach. Definitely take.

[Unknown Host]

One of the things that I very often hear from Scrum Masters is that they feel lonely in their responsibility. And let's not kid about this, it is a very high responsibility role in an organization. Even though it doesn't come with a lot of authority, it does come with a lot of responsibility. And that responsibility may feel overwhelming, but we are not alone. Right. And it's good to remember that there's a community of people inside and outside the organization that we can tap into and get help.

[Kartiga Seturaj]

Absolutely. Yeah. I have never looked at it that way. Personally, I don't easily ask for help, but that's something that I should probably do.

[Unknown Host]

Absolutely. And asking for help is why I started this whole podcast, so that we could all help each other. Right. Like, we could share our stories.

[Kartiga Seturaj]

So.

[Unknown Host]

So yeah, let's all keep that in mind. Kartiga, that was a great story.

[Vasco Duarte]

Thank you for sharing that with us.

[Kartiga Seturaj]

Absolutely.

[Vasco Duarte]

We really hope you liked our show. And if you did, why not rate this podcast on Stitcher or itunes? Share this podcast and let other Scrum masters know about this valuable resource for their work. Remember that sharing is caring.

[Kartiga Seturaj]

It.