The Isolated Product Owner, Lacking Collaboration and Engagement | Karthiga Seturaj

Summary

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: "The Isolated Product Owner, Lacking Collaboration and Engagement" featuring Karthiga Seturaj

Release Date: December 20, 2024
Host: Vasco Duarte, Agile Coach, Certified Scrum Master, Certified Product Owner
Guest: Karthiga Seturaj

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte engages in a compelling conversation with Karthiga Seturaj, an experienced Agile professional. The discussion centers around challenges faced by Product Owners (POs) who find themselves isolated, lacking collaboration and engagement within their teams. Karthiga delves deep into anti-patterns observed in Product Owners and highlights the traits that distinguish exceptional POs from the rest.

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Identifying Anti-Patterns in Product Owners

Lack of Relationship with the Team

Karthiga begins by addressing one of the most detrimental anti-patterns: the absence of a strong relationship between the Product Owner, developers, and testers. She emphasizes the importance of the "Three Amigos" relationship, which traditionally includes the PO, a developer, and a Quality Engineer (QE).

"If the product owner doesn't have a good relationship with the three Amigos, then that's definitely one of the anti patterns." [03:11]

In scenarios where the PO fails to engage effectively during pre-refinement meetings, the entire team's efficiency and the quality of deliverables suffer. Karthiga points out that POs sometimes resort to acting as mere scribes, delegating crucial aspects of backlog refinement to developers or testers, which undermines team confidence and collaboration.

"Acting as a scribe instead of collaborating with developers and testers would also bring down the team's confidence in the PO." [05:00]

Passive Participation in Refinement Meetings

Another critical issue highlighted is the PO's passive role during refinement sessions. Instead of actively contributing to the discussion and prioritization, some POs leave the technical nuances entirely to the development team.

"Even for technical stories though, it's on the developers or technical team to figure out the acceptance criteria... They should stay in the know of what's happening." [06:10]

This detachment not only hampers the refinement process but also poses challenges in prioritizing technical debt against functional requirements, leading to potential bottlenecks in the development cycle.

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Traits of an Exceptional Product Owner

Leadership and Proactive Engagement

Contrasting the anti-patterns, Karthiga sheds light on the characteristics that make a Product Owner truly effective. Leadership emerges as a pivotal trait. An exemplary PO doesn't just manage the backlog but takes an active role in guiding the team, especially during shortages in leadership.

"POs possess great leadership qualities, which helps the team... willing to do it without being told to do it." [07:56]

Such POs step up to facilitate ceremonies, navigate challenges, and ensure that the team remains aligned with project goals, even in the absence of other leaders.

Building Strong One-on-One Relationships

Karthiga underscores the significance of establishing strong, individual relationships with each team member. This is particularly crucial in remote settings where face-to-face interactions are limited.

"Setting up one-on-ones with their developers... to develop that one on one bond so that all the engineers understand that you are also part of the team." [10:15]

These personal connections foster trust, making team members feel valued and supported, thereby enhancing overall collaboration and morale.

Recognition and Advocacy

Recognizing and celebrating the team's accomplishments is another hallmark of an outstanding PO. Acknowledging individual and collective achievements not only boosts morale but also reinforces a culture of appreciation and continuous improvement.

"Recognizing the team's accomplishments, acknowledging them, appreciating them often... Standing up for them in sprint previews or Sprint demos." [11:30]

Furthermore, a great PO serves as an advocate for the team within the larger organization, ensuring that their efforts are visible and appreciated.

Support During Challenges

When challenges arise, whether technical or otherwise, an effective PO remains a steadfast ally. Instead of assigning blame, they work collaboratively with the team to identify root causes and solutions.

"They have to be their ally. They should rely on you... giving you the actual reason for why this was not done." [12:20]

This supportive stance ensures that the team remains resilient and focused, even when facing setbacks.

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The Interplay Between Product Owners and Scrum Masters

Vasco Duarte draws attention to the symbiotic relationship between Product Owners and Scrum Masters, highlighting the necessity for these roles to collaborate closely. Both roles are crucial in steering the team towards productivity and success, and their alignment can significantly impact the team's performance.

"The PO and the Scrum Master really need to have a tightly knit relationship... they can really affect the productivity and the success of the team." [12:43]

This collaboration ensures that both leadership and facilitation are seamlessly integrated into the team's workflow, fostering an environment conducive to Agile principles.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Karthiga Seturaj offers a profound exploration of the common pitfalls that Product Owners may encounter, particularly regarding collaboration and engagement within Agile teams. By contrasting these anti-patterns with the traits of exemplary POs, she provides valuable insights for Agile practitioners striving to enhance team dynamics and project outcomes.

Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own practices and consider adopting the highlighted behaviors to foster stronger, more cohesive teams.

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Further Engagement

Connect with Karthiga Seturaj:
Follow Karthiga on LinkedIn to stay updated with her latest insights and contributions to the Agile community.

Global Agile Summit:
Don't miss the announcement about the upcoming Global Agile Summit in Tallinn, Estonia, scheduled for May 18-20, 2025. Secure your spot early at globalagilesummit.com to take advantage of the super early bird pricing.

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Transcript

[Vasco Duarte]

Hey, how are you doing? I'm Vasco Duarte, your host on the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. And I've got some exciting news. So right now, as I record this, I'm holding in my hand the signed contract for our very first Global Agile Summit. We're all in and I couldn't wait to share this news with you. So mark your calendars. May 18th, 20th of 2025 in Tallinn, Estonia. We're gonna have a transformative experience. We're putting together an event that is all about real life Agile. It's not theory or buzzwords. It's practitioners sharing what's working, what's making an impact, and how they've overcome challenges that you too will have to face, or maybe even facing. Right now, we're bringing together the best stories in Agile. From product leaders to engineering wizards to business visionaries, these will be stories that will inspire you to action. This isn't just another conference. It's a chance to connect with the people that are shaping the future of Agile. And here's the best part. Right now, we're in our super early bird phase. And that means you can grab tickets at just 25% of the final price. Look, that's not just half off, it's half off of the half off. It's an incredible deal for our dedicated community members, just like you listening to this right now. So at the summit, day one will be all about hands on workshops. And days two and three, we'll dive into leadership, product strategy, coding, testing, and everything that makes Agile thrive in organizations. Right now remember, these are all first person, real life stories. Now whether you're a leader, a developer, or part of a consulting company, this event is built to take your Agile game to the next level. So don't wait. Go to globalagilesummit.com and grab your ticket. Today, let's all make 2025 the year agile truly transforms your teams, your business and our industry. I'll see you all in Tallinn. And Remember, go to globalagilesummit.com and get your super early bird ticket right now. It only be available until the agenda is announced, so don't wait. Grab it right now. Right now that that's out of the way, on to the episode. Hello everybody. Welcome to our TGIF and Friday episode this week with Kartiga Seturaj. Hey Kartiga, welcome back.

[Kartiga Seturaj]

Hey Wasko. Happy Friday.

[Vasco Duarte]

Indeed. Tgif. Happy Friday everybody. So Friday is also product owner day here on the podcast. So let's dive into that. We'll talk about great product owners in a minute. But before that Share with us Kartiga what might have been potentially the worst product owner anti pattern you've witnessed in your career?

[Kartiga Seturaj]

Sure, yeah. I have had the opportunity to work with a lot of product owners from diverse backgrounds. One thing that I would like to highlight where I observed some anti patterns are lacking relationship between developer and tester. So I used to call it or the team that I used to work with, we used to call it three Amigos relationship. The relationship that exists between product owner, developer and qe. So we see them as key leaders within a team, each of them being an expert in their own area. They need to have a good relationship. So we used to do pre refinement meetings in one of my previous team. So before refinement the three amigos would meet discuss the priorities to make sure that the backlog is good and ready to be brought to the team for refinement. So that's one of the responsibilities of three Amigos. If the product owner doesn't have a good relationship with the three Amigos, then that's definitely one of the anti patterns. So if the predator is not ready on time, but the things that needs to go into the refinement backlog, then that's definitely going to bring down the team's speed of delivery and also it's going to bring down the quality of our deliverables ultimately. So that's one thing that I've observed where they don't work hard to have those conversations and have those relationship with their developers and testers. Sometimes they might also act as a scribe. Even those refinement meetings, relying on the tester or the technical lead to write out the tickets, or if the developer is just dictating that this should go into the requirements and this should also go into the acceptance criteria. So kind of acting as a scribe instead of collaborating with developers and testers would also bring down the team's confidence in the pos. I have had cases where the developers would come to me and say that oh my God, the refinement meetings are not bringing any value. I am doing the POS job, whereas the PO is just bringing one line to the meeting and it's not very helpful, it's not collaborative. And then when it comes to technical stories, even for technical stories though, it's on the developers or technical team to figure out the acceptance criteria, the details of how it's going to be implemented. Even there the PO should be involved. It's not that they are not responsible for taking stories, they should be part of the acceptance process. They should stay in the know of what's happening. Even if they're, you know, technical and always having always what is it contributing to what the team is doing in a way, understanding why they're doing the technical story, why it is important. They don't have to understand all the technical details, but sometimes they might just throw the technical stories on the team, which is not going to help. You are still there to help them prioritize those technical stories versus other functional stories that you might have in the backlog. So making sure that they are involved in all the stories development throughout the iteration.

[Vasco Duarte]

This reminds me that even though the product owner role is a single role in Scrum and Scrum does or the Scrum guide does mention the product owner role as a specific role. Just like team member is a specific role or Scrum Master is a specific role, it reminds me that the product owner role is a role but the responsibility has shared aspects. And you mentioned a few ones, right? Like contributing to prioritization, helping to clarify the stories, asking critical questions that will help the product owner make better decisions. All of those are incredible inputs that developers and testers can have. And the three Amigos I think is a great workaround when you can't have the whole team involved in that conversation. Right, because. And these days maybe everybody would include a UX person in those cuatro amigos at that time. Not just three, but four amigos at that time to discuss the stories. Because we do need to understand the story from all of those perspectives and that is what refinement is all about. But I think that's a great call out. Kartiga. So of course there's not only bad anti patterns, there are also amazing product owners out there. Karthika. So share one of those with us. Potentially the best product owner you've ever worked with. How did they work?

[Kartiga Seturaj]

Yeah, sure. Yeah, you're right. There are a lot of great product owners out there who partners has importance as a Scrum Master, right. So they have their own responsibility when it comes to teams productivity and improvement. So POS a very critical role. Some POs, when we talked about Antipaterns they might not work through the gray area. So it's not black and white when it comes to a PO and even a Scrum Master. So especially for a po, they cannot just go by the book. They have to work through those gray areas. There might be situations where they might have to step up. Say for example, if the team lead or the engineering lead on the team is out, they might have to take the lead for running some ceremonies. So making sure that they're always ready to jump ahead and help the team out and playing that leader's role when there is a need. So kind of filling the gap when, when there is some. When there is something missing within the team and being willing to do that without being told to do it. So some I've seen some product owners who are really good at leading. They possess great leadership qualities, which helps the team. Sometimes teams might feel like they are lacking guidance if the engineering leader is out, they might feel like they're lost, they don't know what to do next. So kind of helping the teams go through or navigate those challenges that they might have. Taking the lead if there is something that they can follow up and help the team with, if they are say blocked technically or something, they don't know how to go about it. A PO is somebody who should step up and help the team who should be willing to do it like how a Scrum master would do. So that's why I think pos. It's good to have. It's critical to have leadership qualities as a PO and also having a one on one relationship. So based on that, how the squad is set up, it's one PO versus four or five developers, right? So developers would automatically develop that relationship. They might be in huddles on a day to day, they might be working together, they are doing peer review. They are a team, they're very closely knit. As a po, you want to make sure that you have that relationship with them. So One of the POs that I work with, they would set up one on ones with their developers. Especially in remote. If you're in a remote setting, it's even more important for you to develop that one on one bond so that all the engineers understand that you are also part of the team. Though you're a po, you're still part of the team. It doesn't mean that you, you're not part of us. So establishing that bonding and relationship outside of work, it's definitely critical. Build that relationship with your engineers. They have to be your allies. You're in this together, you're not against each other. And one other, one of the other qualities I would say is recognizing the team's accomplishments, acknowledging them, appreciating them often for whatever they're getting done, you know, every iteration or every week. And standing up from standing up for them in spin previews or Sprint demos, calling out their team members accomplishments in the front of the Organization is going to. It's going to go a long way. And they can always, you know, they'll always know that the POs always there for them. And especially when things are not going as expected. When things get rough for Rocky, you should still stand by them. You have to be their ally. They should rely on you. Right. They would know that. Okay. Okay. Even if you don't meet those Sprint goals for whatever reason, you know that peer has your back in Sprint review, they're going to give you the actual reason for why this was not done, why these goals were not accomplished. Instead of, you know, blaming the team or putting the team on the spot and saying that, I don't know what happened, ask the engineers. So making sure that you have that one team culture within the team would definitely help a to be successful.

[Vasco Duarte]

Yeah. I do like how you say it. Right. Make sure that there is this one team culture and also that the PO has leadership or needs to have these leadership skills, needs to be present, needs to be able to help the team. Sometimes not by stepping in, but by helping the team step up. Right. And that's also very important, just like a Scrum Master would do. And that's why I also think that the PO and the Scrum Master really need to have tightly knit relationship. They need to see eye to eye. They need to help each other because those are critical roles and they can really affect the productivity and the success of the team.

[Kartiga Seturaj]

Yep, I agree.

[Vasco Duarte]

So, Kartika, that was Friday and we're getting really close to the end now. But before we go away, do share with us. Where can people find out more about you and the work that you're doing?

[Kartiga Seturaj]

I'm very active on LinkedIn so I can share my LinkedIn profile with you. So you can definitely find me on LinkedIn. I'm not very active on Twitter. I'm trying to, but yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn.

[Vasco Duarte]

Absolutely. We'll put the link to Kartiga's LinkedIn profile, so make sure you follow up and why not ask a few follow up questions based on this week's episodes. All feedback is appreciated as long as it's respectful. Kartiga, it's been a great week. Thank you very much for your generosity with your time and your knowledge.

[Kartiga Seturaj]

Absolutely. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I enjoy talking with you today.

[Vasco Duarte]

We really hope you liked our show. And if you did, why not rate this podcast on Stitcher or itunes, share this podcast and let other Scrum Masters know about this valuable resource for their work. Remember that Sharing is caring.