The Power of "Why", Modeling Coaching Behavior for Agile Teams | Ellen Grove

Summary

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile Storytelling from the Trenches Episode: The Power of "Why", Modeling Coaching Behavior for Agile Teams | Ellen Grove Release Date: January 9, 2025 Host: Vasco Duarte Guest: Alan Grove

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte engages in a profound conversation with Alan Grove, an experienced Agile Coach and Scrum Master. The episode, titled "The Power of 'Why', Modeling Coaching Behavior for Agile Teams," delves deep into the nuances of effective retrospectives, defining success as a Scrum Master, and the pivotal role of coaching in fostering autonomous and high-performing Agile teams.

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Retrospectives: Beyond Formats

Vasco Duarte kicks off the discussion by asking Alan about his favorite retrospective format. Contrary to the expectation of a specific method, Alan Grove reveals:

"The irony is I don't have a favorite retrospective format... it's very, very context specific." ([03:01])

Instead of adhering to a single approach, Alan emphasizes the importance of flexibility and adaptability in choosing retrospective formats that best suit the team's current needs. He highlights the utility of the Retromat tool, which aids in selecting appropriate formats based on the team's context and the nature of discussions required.

Alan underscores a critical aspect of retrospectives:

"Any format that allows you to separate gathering data from generating insights is really key." ([04:33])

He cautions against jumping directly into problem-solving without first reflecting on what transpired. This structured approach ensures that teams address the right issues rather than merely surface-level concerns.

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Defining Success as a Scrum Master

Shifting the focus to personal metrics of success, Vasco probes Alan on how he gauges his effectiveness as an Agile Coach and Scrum Master. Alan candidly shares:

"I don't have my own personal Scrum Master maturity model... I look for if the team is doing more for themselves." ([06:42])

For Alan, success is measured by the team's autonomy and growth in agency—their ability to make decisions and determine their workflows. A testament to his impact was an incident at the Bank of Canada:

"People were actually actively asking out loud in important meetings, 'Let's talk about why we should be doing this.'" ([08:28])

This shift towards questioning the "why" signifies a deeper organizational change, fostering a culture of purpose and intentionality.

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Enhancing Team Questioning Skills

Vasco acknowledges the challenge in helping teams cultivate the habit of asking better questions and seeks Alan's strategies. Alan responds by emphasizing the importance of modeling behavior and continuous learning:

"Books like 'Humble Inquiry' by Edgar Schein and 'Leadership is Language' by David Marquet are invaluable." ([10:00])

He advocates for Scrum Masters to demonstrate effective questioning techniques and share knowledge with their teams. Additionally, Alan advises:

"Redirecting the questioning... keep people's attention focused on the outcomes and maybe don't dwell so much on the process." ([11:50])

By steering conversations towards outcomes rather than getting bogged down by processes, Scrum Masters can help teams maintain clarity and purpose.

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The Scrum Master's Role: Thinking Partner vs. Project Manager

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the Scrum Master's role. Alan delineates the distinction between being a thinking partner and a project manager:

"My job is to help the team figure out what to do and get out of their way while they do it." ([14:21])

He warns against slipping into a "Scrum Police" mentality, where the Scrum Master becomes overly prescriptive. Instead, the focus should be on empowering the team to lead themselves, fostering an environment where team members take ownership of their processes and decisions.

Alan further elaborates on the challenges traditional organizations face in embracing team autonomy:

"Traditional organizations aren’t the idea that the team has agency... it's a hard thinking pattern to break." ([15:45])

This underscores the Scrum Master's responsibility in navigating and influencing organizational culture to support Agile principles.

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Prioritizing Retrospectives Over Planning

Contrary to the common emphasis on sprint planning, Alan posits that retrospectives hold greater significance in the Scrum framework:

"The retrospective is the most important meeting... Planning, which is the meeting that a lot of people go, oh, that's the most important one, actually, I think is the least important one." ([12:33])

He argues that without dedicated time for reflection and continuous improvement, teams stagnate. Retrospectives provide the necessary space for teams to evaluate their processes, identify areas for enhancement, and implement actionable changes.

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Conclusion

This episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast offers invaluable insights into the essence of effective Agile coaching. Alan Grove articulates the importance of flexibility in retrospective formats, the intrinsic measures of success centered around team autonomy, and the critical role of Scrum Masters as facilitators rather than commanders. His emphasis on fostering a culture of asking "why" and prioritizing retrospectives over mere planning rounds out a compelling narrative on elevating Agile practices within organizations.

For Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches seeking to deepen their practice and empower their teams, this conversation serves as a compelling guide to refining their approach and embracing the true spirit of Agile leadership.

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Notable Quotes:

• Alan Grove [03:01]: "I don't have a favorite retrospective format... it's very, very context specific."

• Alan Grove [04:33]: "Any format that allows you to separate gathering data from generating insights is really key."

• Alan Grove [06:42]: "I don't have my own personal Scrum Master maturity model... I look for if the team is doing more for themselves."

• Alan Grove [08:28]: "People were actually actively asking out loud in important meetings, 'Let's talk about why we should be doing this.'"

• Alan Grove [10:00]: "Books like 'Humble Inquiry' by Edgar Schein and 'Leadership is Language' by David Marquet are invaluable."

• Alan Grove [14:21]: "My job is to help the team figure out what to do and get out of their way while they do it."

• Alan Grove [12:33]: "The retrospective is the most important meeting... Planning, which is the meeting that a lot of people go, oh, that's the most important one, actually, I think is the least important one."

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Stay Connected

If you found this summary insightful, consider tuning into the full episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast for a more comprehensive exploration of these topics. Share this resource with fellow Scrum Masters and Agile enthusiasts to foster a community of continuous learning and improvement.

Transcript

[Vasco Duarte]

Hey, how are you doing? I'm Vasco Duarte, your host on the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. And I've got some exciting news. So right now, as I record this, I'm holding in my hand the signed contract for our very first Global Agile Summit. We're all in and I couldn't wait to share this news with you. So mark your calendars. May 18th, 20th of 2025 in Tallinn, Estonia. We're gonna have a transformative experience. We're putting together an event that is all about real life Agile. It's not theory or buzzwords. It's practitioners sharing what's working, what's making an impact, and how they've overcome challenges that you too will have to face, or maybe even facing. Right now, we're bringing together the best stories in Agile. From product leaders to engineering wizards to business visionaries, these will be stories that will inspire you to action. This isn't just another conference. It's a chance to connect with the people that are shaping the future of Agile. And here's the best part. Right now, we're in our super early bird phase. And that means you can grab tickets at just 25% of the final price. Look, that's not just half off, it's half off of the half off. It's an incredible deal for our dedicated community members, just like you listening to this right now. So at the summit, day one will be all about hands on workshops. And days two and three, we'll dive into leadership, product strategy, coding, testing, and everything that makes Agile thrive in organizations. Right now remember, these are all first person, real life stories. Now whether you're a leader, a developer, or part of a consulting company, this event is built to take your Agile game to the next level. So don't wait. Go to globalagilesummit.com and grab your ticket. Today, let's all make 2025 the year agile truly transforms your teams, your business and our industry. I'll see you all in Tallinn. And Remember, go to globalagilesummit.com and get your super early bird ticket right now. It only be available until the agenda is announced, so don't wait. Grab it right now. Right now that that's out of the way, onto the episode. Hello everybody. Welcome to our Success Thursday. The big question of the week, this week with Alan Grove. Hey, Alan, welcome back.

[Alan Grove]

Hi, Vasco.

[Vasco Duarte]

So Thursday is success day, but we always start with the retrospective. So Ellen, share with us, what's your favorite retrospective format and why?

[Alan Grove]

So the irony is I don't have a Favorite retrospective format. And part of that is because I think there are lots of formats that can help teams have the conversation they need to have. And I'm more of the mindset that it's a great idea to mix it up a little bit. I'm going to give a shout out to the retromat tool right at the moment because that's something that I have used a lot to try and figure out as I go in to conduct a retrospective with the team. What format will best serve this team's needs today for the kind of conversation that I think they might need to have, for the kind of topics that we might need to dig into. You know, the. It's very, very context specific. There are lots of fun ones out there. Like even, I'm going to say even the really sort of simple, tried and true ones are, can work. What do we not like? What do we like? You know, what should we do more of? What should we do differently? I think the thing about my favorite format though is I'm going to say that you need to pay attention to all the steps. How do I set the stage? How do we spend enough time gathering data before we jump to generating insights? Any format that allows you to separate those two things I think is really key because all too often we jump right into the processing our experience and make problem solving without stopping to take a moment and actually reflect on what actually happened there. So any format that has time built into, let's spend a little bit of time thinking about what happened before we jump into what do we want to do about that. I'm going to say that's my favorite, which isn't really one format, but.

[Vasco Duarte]

No, of course not. But when you think about that, the importance of giving enough time for that, like, what is the risk? What is the worry you have that helps you to consider that aspect very important and focus on it?

[Alan Grove]

Because if you don't look at the big picture, if you don't spend that time to collect the data and look at the big picture of what happened, you sometimes end up solving the wrong problems. Right? It's, it's, there's the, that old thing that people you say, like, don't bring me a problem until you have the solution. If you start jumping right to the solution or right to how you felt about something as opposed to what was the thing that really happened. You're missing an opportunity to dig a little bit more deeply into, okay, so this happened and this happened and this happened and we all didn't like it. But is this what actually happened? Why did this happen? How could we avoid this happening as opposed to how can we avoid us not liking it? You have to have some data to do the problem solving.

[Vasco Duarte]

That's a very important distinction. Avoiding something from happening versus avoiding us not liking it. They are completely different activities indeed.

[Alan Grove]

Yeah, right.

[Vasco Duarte]

So we do that, of course, because we want to help teams succeed and ultimately as Scrum Masters, we want to succeed ourselves, obviously. So before we can do that, we do need to define what that looks like. So Alan, when you think about your work as an Agile coach or as a Scrum Master, how do you define success for yourself?

[Alan Grove]

It's. This is challenging because I wish I was a more structured person where I had sort of a scorecard in my head about, hey, I know I'm doing a great job. If this happens, this happens, this happens. And I have to confess, I'm not that systematic about it. I don't have my own personal Scrum Master maturity model. But the things that I really look for are, is the team doing more for themselves? Is the team growing in their sense of agency where they can make decisions? They are determining how they work, not necessarily what they're working on because that's kind of a failure mode. We talked about that earlier in the week. But they're really in control of, we know what we need to do, we're going to figure out how to do it. But, and it's hard to measure that because it's lots of little, lots of little things that you can observe. But the other thing that I look for is are people asking better questions? Honestly, my proudest moment as a Scrum Master in an organization was a long time ago. I was coaching at the bank of Canada Central bank and working on this big, complicated, multi team project. And we were sitting in a meeting where there were a whole bunch of stakeholders from the customer side and a whole bunch of the leaders from the delivery side of the project. It was an important meeting, a lot of people wearing suits and we were discussing the state of the project and what we were going to do. And at some point in the conversation, somebody from the customer side of the table, who I hadn't really interacted with a lot directly stuck up their hand and said, okay, I'm going to ask the Ellen question now. What is the value to us of doing this? And I was just like, my work here is done. Because that to me indicated that the organization was making a change. People were actually actively asking out loud in important meetings, let's talk about why we should be Doing this thing that we're all talking about doing. And if you can get organizations doing that, whatever you've done as a Scrum Master to get them to that point has been good things.

[Vasco Duarte]

Yeah. So one of the things that I know helps us as Scrum Masters to contribute to the teams and other people in the organization to realize the questions that are important to ask is to, of course, repeat those questions over and over again. Right. Why are we doing this? Why is this important? And so on and so forth. But do you have some other approach? Because I totally agree with that. Right. Like when people start asking much better questions, then their level of thinking just completely goes off the chart. I mean, they become better thinkers because they are asking better questions, but getting them there isn't that easy. So what are some of the superpowers you've gathered over your career to help people understand and practice this? Asking better questions.

[Alan Grove]

So part of it is just modeling the behavior yourself, thinking a little bit about how do you show up, how. How do you ask questions and what kinds of questions do you ask? And if. And if you're sitting here listening and you're going, I don't even know what kinds of questions that I ask. So one, a couple of books you might look to Humble Inquiry by Edgar Schein, we talked about that earlier in the week, which really breaks down different kinds of questions. Or David Marquette's book, Leadership is Language, which again talks about how do you ask better questions when you're working with an organ, when you're working with other people. So you can learn that yourself, you can model that, you can share that with people, you can share that information. As a Scrum Master, you have opportunities to coach the team, to coach the organization around the team, and you can find ways both to demonstrate that knowledge, but also to share that knowledge with them, but simply also redirecting the questioning. Because one of the tendencies I think humans like to do is we really like to jump into the. Especially when we're feeling over pressured to deliver, there's a lot of pressure. We've got to get this done. And our minds go directly to the how we got to get it. How are we going to get it done? And we often don't spend a lot of time asking the why, what is the value in doing this piece of work? What is the value in this process to do this piece of work as we understand it, and is there another way to do it while still delivering that value? People confuse outcomes with process all the time. And so as a Scrum Master, Thinking about how do I keep people's attention focused on the outcomes and maybe don't dwell so much on the process? That's a very tactical thing. How do I make sure that everybody understands the outcomes because they're going to take care of the process one way or another. When we talk about Scrum, in my mind, the retrospective is the most important meeting, because that's when we're actually sitting down and thinking about how are we going to do things differently, what do we want to change and how are we going to do things differently? Planning, which is the meeting that a lot of people go, oh, that's the most important one, actually, I think is the least important one, because one way or another, people are going to decide what they're going to do. Right. But if you don't consciously make that time to stop and think about how are we going to get better at what we do, I can guarantee that's never going to happen.

[Vasco Duarte]

Well, when you were sharing the asking more why questions, it also reminded me that that's a coaching stance. Like, if you believe that people can figure out the details by themselves, then our role becomes to ask them to think about why that matters. Because the why then informs the how. Right. Like, so instead of coming up with the plan, for example, maybe we need to talk about why are these features so important? Right. Like, what won't the customer be able to do if we don't deliver these features? Like, that kind of information then helps the teams. Helps the product owner to make better decisions when they are actually implementing the. The features.

[Alan Grove]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it's really important for a Scrum Master to see themselves as a thinking partner for the team that way. Because one of the things I see a lot of Scrum Masters struggle with is staying out of project manager mode. I am going to. My role as Scrum Master is to show up and help keep the team on track, to show them where the guardrails are and make sure they stay in the guardrails and make sure they. We follow the process that we've all agreed to follow. And if you read the Scrum Guide with a certain mindset, you might think, oh, yeah, yeah. My job is to be, I'm going to say the Scrum Police. Right? That's. We. We hear that. As opposed to thinking about, well, no, my job as Scrum Masters help the team figure out what to do and get out of their way while they do it. So I shouldn't. It's more of a coaching stance. It's not my Agenda. It's the team's agenda. I'm helping them create the agenda. I'm helping create the structure that they have the agenda. Figuring out what we're going to do and how we're going to do it. But my job isn't to tell them what to do. My job is to help them understand why what they're doing is important and let them bring the skills, the knowledge, the expertise, the passion they have to figuring out how to get it done.

[Vasco Duarte]

And.

[Alan Grove]

And I do things, you know, lots of things about coaching stances, about how you. How you approach a situation from a coaching point of view are really important to developing that mindset. As a Scrum Master, you've got to get out of the team's way. You want to be a thinking partner, you want to be supportive, but you're not the leader in that sense.

[Vasco Duarte]

Yeah.

[Alan Grove]

And you're helping a lot of them lead themselves.

[Vasco Duarte]

Sorry, I was just saying that we are helping the team lead themselves.

[Alan Grove]

Yes. Yes, we are helping the team to lead themselves. That's kind of what's at the heart of scrum, but that's one of those things that organizations have a really hard time understanding. And again, maybe I'm sort of. My thinking is shaped by the time I've spent in big bureaucratic organizations, but a lot of traditional organizations are. Aren't the idea that the team has agency and it's not up to one person to make sure the team is doing what the team should do and the people on the team are doing things that they should do. That's a hard thinking pattern to break for a lot of organizations. Right. And so that's something, as a Scrum Master, you have to be very aware of. Is. Is my behavior towards the team supporting that sense of the team figuring out what to do, or am I inadvertently putting myself in a position where I'm casting myself as a more traditional kind of leader?

[Vasco Duarte]

Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question. To finish off this episode. Thank you for sharing that, Alan.

[Alan Grove]

You're very welcome.

[Vasco Duarte]

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