Vasco (4:46)

I really like the way you describe that. It helps us tap into somebody else's experience of the sprint because very often when we verbalize, we talk about concrete things, especially people with an engineering background. We're going to talk about concrete things like the build broke, the tests didn't pass, whatever that is. But we're not really tapping into the experience.

Unidentified Guest (5:07)

Right.

Vasco (5:08)

Like that can lead to frustration, that can lead to trying to solve problems in a hurry and creating bigger problems downstream. Like it can lead to so many things that are experiences, not things you can point to. And that's a very important aspect of what being a human being is all about.

Unidentified Guest (5:27)

Right.

Vasco (5:28)

Like we go through the world and we experience the world. Of course we use reason and decomposition and planning an organization in that experience of the world. But we don't experience the world through a plan. We experience the plan through the world, which is a totally different perspective. And I think that aspect of drawing which taps into the non structured, the non organized, the non mathematical.

Unidentified Guest (5:56)

Right.

Vasco (5:57)

I think that can be really a great way to tap into other people's experience. When you think about success, we talk about this. Helping people go through these different experiences, understanding things that are perhaps beyond the surface, all of that is helpful for us to help succeed the teams, but also ourselves. So what do you think when you think about success for yourself as a scrum master, what do you think about?

Tom Molinaar (6:29)

I think about the. The three pillars that are really important. Three pillars of. Of success for a team to be a effective team that is reaching their goals. So to achieve the purpose of the team, which is delivering the product, that's the result. On the product side, we as coaches, like, we, we can't influence the product that much. Okay, we can, we can help our PO with the, with the vision and all kind of stuff, but direct influence on the product is, yeah, is something that the team is working on on a technical, on a product side of things. But as a Scrum master, you can really focus on the process and the people and with the process, I mean having the agile way of working in place because we spoke about team dynamics, but working agile means also having that quick ability to adapt to changes, to receive regular feedback and on the people side of things, we as coaches can help a team to grow in their maturity, to become a high performing team, to improve the collaboration and to make sure that the agile process is really helping the team flourish. So also when it comes to the meetings, are they effective, the collaboration effective? And that's how I measure my own success as a Scrum master, in a reflection on how the team effectiveness is on the people side of things and the process side of things. Absolutely.

Vasco (8:31)

So purpose, process and people. We could call it the three Ps of success.

Tom Molinaar (8:36)

Right, Exactly. That's a good one.

Vasco (8:40)

One question before we finish. How do you, when you, like we talked about yesterday, on Wednesday, we talked about you joining a new team, a new organization, a new team, how do you map this out? Like when you go into a new team, how do you start thinking about purpose, process, people? Like how do you do that for yourself? Not for the team which will eventually benefit from it, but how do you do it for yourself?

Tom Molinaar (9:05)

Yeah, yeah, especially that's, that's during the first phase I try to observe as much as possible what are the results of the team. And I use a, a survey that I can use within the team. How they score themselves, but also how I score their performance on collaboration. And that's based on my observations during the first retro, how they refine, how they plan. So basically I use that survey to check what is the state of the team when it comes to collaboration and how would I rank it and what is the, the next step for the team? How well is the process serving the team? Are there certain elements that are lacking or not working as smooth? And of course what is the result? Because yeah, you can work on team dynamics all you want, but if the team isn't delivering the product, most of the teams are in a corporate setting, so they have to deliver their product for the customer so, so do you.

Vasco (10:18)

Have myself a survey that, that you bring to the teams or is that something that you define based on maybe an initial assessment or the first one on ones?

Tom Molinaar (10:29)

Yeah, I use. So your question is if, if I bring that survey to the ta.

Vasco (10:35)

If you have a survey that you use for yourself and you work through that with the team.

Tom Molinaar (10:41)

Yeah, during the years I had different approaches, but what I really like doing now is like having that 360 view on, on these three pillars by sharing the survey with the team as well, so that they add that I can see their opinion on how things are going and also to ask what are your challenges? What are your problems? Instead of trying to solve things immediately that you feel like, ah, we need to improve this, this is going to benefit the team. I always try to ask the team first, what is your problem or what is the next step, do you think? So having their inputs, having my inputs bundle it and share it in the, in maybe the second retro when I joined them to see what is our common ground, where, where do we meet each other, what are the most important things that we can fear on or what is low hanging fruit. So I really like to share my opinion but also have their reflections on.

Vasco (11:55)

I really like that approach of coming in with a survey that may have a certain number of questions that are fixed, others that may be appropriate to the context and really get the team's opinion. Because that's one of the things that I very often see, especially in the early days of agile adoption, when a lot of people came into those teams with a lot more knowledge about agile than the teams themselves. These days it's not like that. The teams are in principle quite well aware of agile and the different agile approaches. So coming in with that survey really helps the team hopefully express how they see themselves and also how they see the opportunity for improvement. And then I'm reminded of the story you shared on Monday, right, where you brought in the enthusiasm and the vision and the team just laid back and never wanted to do anything. And the survey would have given you that immediate perception.

Unidentified Guest (12:47)

Right.

Vasco (12:47)

And I think that this is so powerful for us because then it sets us up for success.

Unidentified Guest (12:52)

Right.

Vasco (12:52)

Then we know what we need to work on. For example, on the Monday episode in that story, maybe you would have found that the team had a vision for improvement. It was just completely different from what you would expect it to be.

Tom Molinaar (13:05)

Exactly. And there needs to be a handshake moment. And what I shared on Monday is that I skipped the intake where I had like a handshake with the team. This is what we agree on. And by using this survey you can if you see certain areas where you feel like this really needs improvement and the team thinks that we're doing fine, we don't need that, then you can immediately have that conversation before we start moving. And I think that that handshake is really necessary for us as coaches to not lose energy in that phase when you start moving and so that you find the common ground. That's something that is really useful and necessary.

Vasco (13:54)

Absolutely. Always handshake on what needs to be done. Tom, thank you very much for sharing that story with us.

Tom Molinaar (14:01)

You're welcome.

Vasco (14:05)

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Vasco (15:53)

I'll see you in the community.

Tom Molinaar (15:55)

Slack.

Podcast Host/Producer (15:57)

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