The True Purpose of Scrum, Enabling Individuals And Interactions | Mateusz Komander

Summary

Episode Summary: "The True Purpose of Scrum, Enabling Individuals And Interactions" with Mateusz Komander

Introduction

In this engaging episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte delves deep into the essence of Scrum with guest Mateusz Komander, a seasoned Scrum Master from Poland. Released on February 10, 2025, this episode explores the foundational principles of Scrum, emphasizing the importance of individuals and interactions over rigid processes. Through Mateusz's personal journey and professional experiences, listeners gain valuable insights into overcoming common challenges faced by Scrum Masters and fostering effective team dynamics.

Guest Background: Mateusz Komander

Mateusz Komander brings a unique blend of experiences to his role as a Scrum Master at Heineken. With a diverse background in insurance brokerage, risk management, and consultancy within the biotech and airline industries, Mateusz has honed his skills in agile delivery and transformations. His expertise extends to Management 3.0, where he excels in cultivating self-managed, innovative teams. Recently, Mateusz launched a podcast focused on organizational transformation, further establishing his commitment to advancing agile practices.

The Journey to Becoming a Scrum Master

Vasco Duarte opens the conversation by highlighting Mateusz's unconventional path to becoming a Scrum Master. Initially working as an insurance broker and risk manager while studying law, Mateusz's transition into agile methodologies was both unexpected and transformative.

Mateusz Komander [03:26]: "From my past career as an insurance broker and risk manager, navigating me closer towards negotiating instead of inspiring was a place to improve."

Mateusz recounts his first foray into Scrum during a consultancy project for a major Polish bank, where he was tasked with acting as the liaison between the client and the development team. Despite lacking direct project management experience in product development, Mateusz embraced the opportunity, leading him to pursue Scrum Master training and mentorship.

Overcoming Early Challenges

Despite his enthusiasm, Mateusz faced significant hurdles in his early days as a Scrum Master. Initially, he struggled to grasp the underlying principles of Scrum, focusing more on process adaptation rather than understanding the "why" behind Scrum's structure.

Mateusz Komander [07:06]: "I didn't quite understand then why Scrum is designed as it is... I jumped on Kanban, I jumped on many different approaches."

This experimental approach led to confusion within his team, culminating in an intense retrospective session that surfaced unmanaged conflicts and issues. This pivotal moment forced Mateusz to reevaluate his understanding of Scrum, prompting him to revisit the Scrum Guide and seek guidance from his mentor.

Mateusz Komander [08:24]: "Introducing retrospectives the right way to focus on processes and improvement, not on blame, was eye-opening."

The Essence of Scrum: Individuals and Interactions

Through mentorship and introspection, Mateusz came to appreciate that Scrum is fundamentally about facilitating connections and fostering effective interactions among team members. He emphasizes that Scrum is not merely a set of processes but a framework designed to enhance collaboration and adaptability.

Mateusz Komander [11:43]: "Scrum is not really about the process itself; it's rather facilitating the importance of the connection of the interactions with individuals."

This realization underscored the significance of empirical management in Scrum, where continuous inspection and adaptation are crucial. Mateusz draws parallels between Scrum and chemical processes, highlighting the necessity of managing variables in real-time to achieve desired outcomes.

Mateusz Komander [13:58]: "Inspect and adapt for within Scrum happens on a daily basis... We may need to deprioritize items because something we've learned that we need to focus on to achieve the sprint goal."

The Role of the Scrum Master as a Coach

A central theme of the discussion is the role of the Scrum Master as a coach rather than merely a process enforcer. Mateusz underscores the importance of supporting teams in navigating tensions and fostering an environment conducive to self-management and continuous improvement.

Mateusz Komander [10:47]: "The role of the Scrum Master as a coach, as an actual people person, is important for a team to manage tensions and support responses to those tensions."

Vasco Duarte echoes this sentiment, highlighting the value of mentorship in the agile community. He acknowledges the isolating aspects of the Scrum Master role and commends Mateusz for seeking guidance during challenging times.

Vasco Duarte [10:47]: "It's really important to have someone who's there for us, helping us to succeed in that role... a lonely experience filled with doubts and questions."

Practical Takeaways and Insights

Mateusz's journey offers several practical lessons for Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches:

1. Understand the "Why" Behind Scrum Practices: Delving deeper into the principles and reasoning behind Scrum events and artifacts ensures their effective implementation.

2. Embrace Empirical Management: Continuously inspect and adapt practices based on real-time feedback and evolving team dynamics.

3. Foster Open Communication: Regular retrospectives and transparent dialogues help surface and address underlying team issues.

4. Seek Mentorship: Leveraging the experience of seasoned mentors can provide invaluable guidance and support during challenging phases.

5. Prioritize Individuals and Interactions: Focus on building strong interpersonal relationships within the team to enhance collaboration and productivity.

Conclusion

In this enlightening episode, Mateusz Komander shares his transformative journey from a risk manager to a proficient Scrum Master. His experiences highlight the critical balance between adhering to Scrum's structural framework and nurturing the human elements that drive successful agile teams. By prioritizing individuals and interactions, Mateusz exemplifies the true purpose of Scrum, offering listeners actionable insights to elevate their own agile practices.

Notable Quotes

• Mateusz Komander [07:06]: "I didn't quite understand then why Scrum is designed as it is... I jumped on Kanban, I jumped on many different approaches."

• Mateusz Komander [08:24]: "Introducing retrospectives the right way to focus on processes and improvement, not on blame, was eye-opening."

• Mateusz Komander [11:43]: "Scrum is not really about the process itself; it's rather facilitating the importance of the connection of the interactions with individuals."

• Mateusz Komander [13:58]: "Inspect and adapt for within Scrum happens on a daily basis... We may need to deprioritize items because something we've learned that we need to focus on to achieve the sprint goal."

• Vasco Duarte [10:47]: "It's really important to have someone who's there for us, helping us to succeed in that role... a lonely experience filled with doubts and questions."

Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a profound reminder that at the heart of Scrum lies the human connection. Mateusz Komander's insights encourage Scrum Masters and Agile practitioners to look beyond processes and frameworks, fostering environments where individuals can thrive through meaningful interactions and continuous collaboration.

For those interested in further exploring Mateusz's perspectives, his newly launched podcast on organizational transformation is available through the show notes.

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Transcript

[Pasco Duarte]

Hi there, Pasco Duarte here, your host. I wanted to share a story with you. You know how sometimes Agile just feels like following another checklist when like processes and frameworks feel more important than what we are trying to achieve and sometimes even like handcuffs. I was talking to a customer of the Global Agile Summit and he used a term that kind of stuck in my he said, I have Agile fatigue. And I've heard that a lot from people since then. But here's the thing, it doesn't have to be this way. So we started thinking and at the Global Agile Summit, which is happening this May, we're bringing together practitioners who've actually done that, who've broken free from this, you know, install the framework kind of mindset. We want to focus the summit on real life, first person stories of Agile all succeeding that inspire you to action. We're talking real experiences, practical solutions, and of course, amazing insights from leaders like Gojkoacic, who will be one of the keynote speakers, and Jurgen Apelo, who will be one of the keynote speakers as well. If you're ready to leave the Agile fatigue behind, just join us in Dalit. The early birth tickets are now available@the globalagilesummit.com and mark your calendar. We will have workshops on May 18th, that's a Sunday. And then the conference itself will happen on May 19th and 20th of 2025 in Tallinn, Estonia. So let's make Agile exciting again. And remember, go to agile globalagilesummit.com that is, and get your early birth ticket. Now. It will only be available until early March, so grab it now. And now onto the episode.

[Vasco]

Hello everybody. Welcome to one more week of the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. And this week, joining us from Poland is Matthaus Kommander. Hey Mateus. Welcome to the show.

[Matthaus Kommander]

Hello Vasco. Nice seeing you.

[Vasco]

And Matthias has of course the right name for a Scrum Master Commander.

[Matthaus Kommander]

I don't know, I don't know. But yeah, it's very impactful for many people and I do fall in mind with that surname.

[Vasco]

Definitely, Absolutely. Absolutely. I bet you tell a lot of jokes about the name when you introduce yourself as a Scrum Master. So Matteo is a Scrum Master at Heineken. He brings expertise from biotech and the airline industries, excelling in agile delivery and transformations. He's also skilled in Management 3.0 and he fosters self managed innovative teams. And Mataus just launched a podcast on organizational transformation. So check out the show notes to get the direct link. And Matthias highlights how understanding team dynamics beyond Scrum really helps with collaboration and effectiveness and that's what we are going to talk about the whole of this week. So Matthias, let's dive right in. Tell us a little bit more about yourself and how did you end up becoming a Scrum Master?

[Matthaus Kommander]

Hi Vasco, thank you for the question. And from my perspective it's quite interesting story as probably as many of our colleagues grandmasters, I not necessarily started directly in it. So in my past career I was an insurance broker and risk manager. Actually already started while I was studying law. So that was, that's a nice background for me which actually in my work of Scrum Master navigates me a little bit closer towards quite often negotiating instead of maybe inspiring. So that's a place to improve. And throughout my career I was working with various companies and one of those companies I was supporting in consultancy around their insurance and around risk management in their company was actually development company which was providing or developing new solution for one of the biggest banks in Poland that allowed the clients to, let's say start or register their own company throughout the banking system. And as it happens I was living quite close to the headquarters of the bank and the client asked me, hey Matti, we actually need a project manager for meeting with our client, for meeting with the company. We cannot be there every day and they require one of our representative to be there on a daily basis. So would you be willing to join them and be our, let's say eyes and ears in your. To support our development. And for me it was, you know, I never ever run a project management around product. So I decided yeah, why not? And this was actually the first time when I've met Scrum Masters and I saw in. In that banking industry I saw Scrum teams and I loved speaking and working with Scrum Masters back then. So as it happened I actually am a little bit more a people person than process person or back office person. I decided to, while I was working within implementing that specific product, I decided to kick off with my first Scrum Master training and take the opportunity of being maybe a little bit mentor or led by more experienced colleagues. And thankfully shortly after my first course and the experience I've got within the bank, I was able to catch up work with one of the body leading company that actually straight on put me on a big screen within biotech industry.

[Vasco]

One of the interesting things of this background is that of course you bring a lot of different perspectives into the Scrum Master role. Some of those quite familiar to our listeners, for example project management, but perhaps some others quite different. From what others might have been, especially if you were doing insurance brokerage and risk as a law student. So that's quite a different perspective. So I'm quite curious to hear about your difficult moment as a Scrum master. So, Matteo, share with us that difficult moment you had as a Scrum master. Tell us the story. We'll dive into the details and the takeaways later, but share that story with us.

[Matthaus Kommander]

Well, and actually the stage, the big stage that I mentioned previously is actually the stage that I was straight on put in. So I've started with at the beginning with one team in that biotech company and I have thought that shortly after the training and shortly after my exam with, with my past experience, I thought I could do better. So I've started working with a team and it was quite small team. It was around five people. It was around five people in it. But I didn't quite understood then why Scrum is designed as is. So why we have the events as we have, why we have planning retrospectives. So many things I wasn't trying to investigate as much as I could. I jumped on Kanban, I jumped on many different approach and I thought that maybe we can mix and match them and all of.

[Vasco]

So what you're saying is that you knew Scrum, you knew how it was, you know what were its components, but you didn't know why those components were there, so you started bringing in all kinds of other things into Scrum. Is that what you're saying?

[Matthaus Kommander]

Yeah, a little bit. Based on I thought then feedback from the team and I thought that this may be a good part. But my biggest learning point and of this, which I wanted to lead to, is actually my. My path into understanding the importance of retrospectives. Because while I was keeping like dailies from time to time with the team, like how I was skipping planning sessions, I also wasn't introducing retrospective or wasn't really introducing it the right way. And I think at some point it was actually requested by one of the proxy product owners back then. He asked me to actually schedule that session, schedule a retrospective because he saw that the things are not working correctly. So I've organized that session and oh my God, all hell gates were opened for me. So all of the unmanaged conflicts, all of the unmanaged issues previously come surfaced during this one session. And at that time I thought when all of that stuff showed up, I thought is unmanageable by me. It was a long path. But on one hand for me start introducing the retrospective the right way to focus on Processes to focus on improvement, not on blame across our colleagues within a team. But yeah, that first part was very eye opening and this actually showed me and I took a step back and I took step back into the Scrum Guide and I went reached out to my mentor back then who was mentoring me around about that framework. And with that help I understood why we are introducing specific items and how we should interact. And this also showed me how important the role of SCRUM Master as a coach, as a actual people person is important for a team to be able to manage all of the tensions. Maybe not manage, but to be able to support the team and be able to respond to the tensions that are within a team.

[Vasco]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, one of the things that I want to highlight is that you reached out to a mentor and I think that all of us who are starting this journey, whether it is as a Scrum Master like you were, or as an Agile coach or as an engineering manager, as a product owner, it's really important to have someone who's there for us, who's on our side and helping us to succeed in that role. Because alone in this kind of role where there's so much at stake can be very difficult and of course a lonely experience filled with doubts and questions that we can't necessarily answer. So I'm really happy to hear that you reached out to a mentor. But what were the things like when you think about that journey and that understanding why SCRUM is as it is, what were the things at that time that touched you, that made you understand? Okay, I was really missing this.

[Matthaus Kommander]

Well, mostly the, I think when I took a step back and I understood that the SCRUM is as a framework is not really about the process itself, it's rather facilitating of the importance of the connection of the interactions with individuals. So it allows us to touch base with the team as often as possible to observe and to support them. And I believe this is, or this is what we should be able to pick up from the, from the SCRUM itself. And for me, who came from a process heavy approach at the beginning, that was the main challenge, I believe, to understand and to see that.

[Vasco]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, one of the things that I remember reading way back when it wasn't even the Scrum Guide, it was Agile software development with Scrum, which was I think 2004. When I read it for the first time, one of the things that really touched me was the emphasis on empirical management. It's still a big emphasis in Scrum, even though people don't talk about it. But the idea was. And they use this metaphor, right, like they say, when you have a chemical process, and because you have some biotech experience, you probably are familiar with this. When you have a chemical process, you can't plan it in advance and you add a certain amount of catalyst or whatever to create a chemical reaction. But then you need to manage that with pressure and temperature and whatever as the process is happening to make sure that the output is what you want it to be. And Scrum has or Agile software development with Scrum, the book really has that specific story in there where it talks about the need to be empirical, the need to be constantly looking into what is happening and constantly adapting the inspect and adapt message that Scrum talks about and Agile talks about all the time. So for me, that was the biggest contrast. And when I put that together with what you just said, which is like these people and interactions, that is more than anything an empirical process. Because the relationship between people is changing every single day.

[Matthaus Kommander]

Right, Exactly. And what we are looking. We need to remember that the inspect and adapt and the interactions and adaptation actually for within Scrum happens on a daily basis. So what we quite often can see is that even throughout the sprint, some priorities might change, some scope may change even. Yeah, we may need to deprioritize items because something we've learned that we need to focus on to be able to achieve the sprint goal. So yeah, that's definitely a learning point to take.

[Pasco Duarte]

Yeah.

[Vasco]

And we need to make this practical and more on that in the rest of the week because Matthias will be here for the whole week. Matthias, thank you for sharing that story with us.

[Matthaus Kommander]

Thank you very much, Vasco. And it was very nice being here today with you.

[Pasco Duarte]

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