Unveiling the Many Layers of the Scrum Master Role | Ramya Shastri

Summary

Unveiling the Many Layers of the Scrum Master Role | Ramya Shastri

In the December 2, 2024 episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte engages in an insightful conversation with Ramya Shastri, an Enterprise Agile Coach from India. Ramya shares her transformative journey into the Scrum Master role, the challenges she faced, and the profound layers that define effective Scrum Mastery. This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn from their enriching dialogue.

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1. Ramya Shastri’s Career Journey

Ramya's path to becoming a Scrum Master is both unconventional and inspiring. She begins her career as a Visual Basic (VB) developer, a role she held for approximately one and a half years before realizing that coding wasn't her true passion.

"I was a VB developer... after that I did that for like one and a half years, roughly. And then I realized that coding is not my cup of tea."
— Ramya Shastri [01:30]

Transitioning from development, Ramya ventured into Quality Assurance (QA), serving as a QA analyst and eventually managing a team of about 15 people as a QA Manager. However, as the industry shifted towards automation, Ramya found herself at a crossroads, yearning for a role that aligned more closely with her strengths and interests.

Her discovery of the Scrum Master role came serendipitously. Observing a new joiner transition into a Scrum Master position within her project sparked her interest. Despite initial reservations from management, primarily due to her existing QA profile, Ramya pursued Scrum Master certification and began shadowing her colleague to gain practical experience.

"I thought to myself, let me find out some chance or some opportunity. I'll just kind of sneak into some opportunity."
— Ramya Shastri [06:18]

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2. Overcoming Challenges in Transitioning to Scrum Mastery

Transitioning to a Scrum Master role was fraught with challenges for Ramya. She highlights the difficulty of being recognized as a capable Scrum Master, especially when coming from a different domain like QA.

"No one would want to take a bet on us saying that, oh, I'm a fresher Scrum Master, though."
— Ramya Shastri [07:18]

Ramya emphasizes the perseverance required to navigate internal organizational structures that are rigid in role assignments. Her proactive approach involved reaching out to various projects and staffing personnel, advocating for opportunities despite being initially pigeonholed under her QA designation.

Additionally, Ramya confronts the depth of the Scrum Master role, which extends far beyond mere facilitation—a realization that came with hands-on experience.

"I realized that there is a much deeper world into it."
— Ramya Shastri [08:50]

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3. Deepening Understanding of the Scrum Master Role

Initially perceiving the Scrum Master role as predominantly about facilitation and coordination, Ramya's firsthand experience unveiled its complex and multifaceted nature. She outlines that effective Scrum Mastery involves:

• Understanding Team Dynamics: Grasping the intricacies of how team members interact, collaborate, and sometimes struggle.
• Enabling Team Potential: Creating environments where teams feel safe to make mistakes, engage in healthy discussions, and continuously improve.
• Embedding Processes into Practices: Transitioning from mere adherence to processes to ingraining them as habitual practices within the team.

"There is a much deeper world into it... understanding the team, current ways of working, understand what are their challenges, where are they stuck with and how can you help them in unblocking or unlocking their potential."
— Ramya Shastri [10:45]

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4. The Multifaceted Layers of Scrum Master Responsibilities

Host Vasco Duarte builds upon Ramya's insights by elaborating on the various unseen layers of the Scrum Master role. He highlights that beyond facilitating ceremonies like daily stand-ups and retrospectives, Scrum Masters engage in:

• One-on-One Meetings: Building individual relationships and addressing personal concerns.
• Stakeholder Communication: Managing expectations and maintaining transparency through regular updates and emails.
• Conflict Resolution: Navigating and mediating conflicts within the team or between the team and management.

"Scrum Masters don't actually code... but we still need to be able to help the team succeed despite all of those areas perhaps not being at the level that they should."
— Vasco Duarte [12:49]

Vasco references past episodes where Scrum Masters have successfully managed conflicts, reinforcing the idea that the role is strategic and deeply involved in fostering team cohesion and effectiveness.

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5. The Evolutionary Journey of a Scrum Master

Ramya adds to the discussion by emphasizing the individual nature of growth within the Scrum Master role. She introduces the concept of the "Shohari level"—a metaphor for the progressive depth of understanding that Scrum Masters develop over time.

"Every Scrum Master goes through this Shohari level... how much ever you spend on courses, trainings and all... unless you sink in your teeth yourself as a Scrum Master working on ground with the teams, you won't understand this reality."
— Ramya Shastri [13:50]

Her coaching philosophy underscores that while formal training provides foundational knowledge, practical experience is indispensable for mastering the nuanced responsibilities of a Scrum Master.

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6. Concluding Insights and Takeaways

The conversation concludes with Vasco acknowledging the value of hearing firsthand experiences from Scrum Masters like Ramya, who navigate daily challenges and derive actionable lessons from them. Ramya's journey illustrates that the Scrum Master role is dynamic and requires continuous learning and adaptation.

"It's a very individual journey... unless and until you sink in your teeth yourself as a Scrum Master working on ground with the teams, you won't understand this reality."
— Ramya Shastri [14:12]

Vasco encourages listeners to engage with the podcast, highlighting its role as a platform for Scrum Masters to share struggles and successes, thereby fostering a community of continuous improvement and support.

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Key Takeaways

• Transitioning Roles Requires Persistence: Moving into a Scrum Master role from a different domain demands resilience and proactive effort.
• Scrum Mastery is Multifaceted: Beyond facilitation, it involves deep understanding of team dynamics, enabling potential, and embedding processes into practices.
• Practical Experience is Crucial: While training provides a foundation, hands-on experience is essential for truly grasping the complexities of the role.
• Continuous Learning and Adaptation: The journey of a Scrum Master is ongoing, characterized by constant learning and evolving strategies to support and enhance team performance.

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About the Podcast: The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, hosted by Vasco Duarte, is a daily resource for Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches worldwide. Through interviews with practitioners and thought leaders, it offers actionable advice, tips, and inspiring conversations to help listeners enhance their craft and navigate the ever-evolving landscape of Agile methodologies.

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Stay tuned for more episodes as Vasco continues to explore the depths of Agile practices, bringing insights from around the globe to empower Scrum Masters in their professional journeys.

Transcript

[Vasco Duart]

Hi, I'm your host, Vasco Duart. Welcome to the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast where we share tips and tricks from Scrum Masters around the world. Every day we bring you inspiring answers to important questions that all Scrum Masters.

[Host]

Face day after day. Hello everybody. Welcome to one more week of the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. And this week, joining us from India is Ramya Shastri. Hey Ramya, welcome to the show.

[Ramya Shastri]

Hi Vasco. Thank you so much for this opportunity and looking forward for this conversation.

[Host]

Absolutely. By the way, did I pronounce your name correctly?

[Ramya Shastri]

Yes. Yes.

[Host]

Okay, that's good because I'm also very well known for murdering people's names, so I'm happy I didn't do that this time. So Ramye is an enterprise agile coach dedicated to fostering organizational growth and agility through human centric coaching. She prioritizes psychological safety and empowers teams and leaders to reach their potential. Additionally, Ramya co hosts two podcasts, so check them out. One of them is the award nominated Agile Coaching Roundtable. And the second one, the Mumbai based Career Celebrating Success Journeys. So Ramya, that was a short intro. Tell us a little bit more about yourself and how did you end up becoming a Scrum Master.

[Ramya Shastri]

Oh wow, you kind of touched that nerve. And it's an interesting story to maybe narrate this. I mean, people who have listened to me or watched my journey would know, but then for people who don't know me specifically your audience. So I mean, I switched my careers into multiple profiles. So I began my career as a developer and I was a VB developer. So VB developer was something, I mean.

[Host]

Got, yeah, Visual Basic, right?

[Ramya Shastri]

Yeah, yeah, Visual Basic. So I'm that old school now. And after that I did that for like one and a half hour, one and a half years, roughly. And then I realized that coding is not my cup of tea. So I then, I then started thinking to myself, and what else could I do within this same premise? Right? So then I discovered testing and that's what caught my attention. And I worked as a tester or a QA analyst or maybe quality assurance for quite a long period. I worked last, I worked as a QA manager wherein I was managing a team of I think 15 people. And after that I was in this crossroads of sorts wherein I thought, I mean, what next? Now because I was typically into manual testing and back then manual testing again was so basic and everyone was moving into automation. And again the same question popped up. I mean, I just avoided the coding and that's the reason why I became the QA engineer. And now again, I won't go back to the testing or maybe automation, right? I don't want to do that coding. So I had multiple career options. I was just contemplating, I mean, what next? Should I go with the business analyst or should I stay into management or. Many sort of options came into my mind. And surprisingly, that's when I discovered Scrum Master role. And there was this Scrum Master while I was working as a QMI Manager. So there was a new joiner into my project. She was a tester. I mean, she actually was at par with my experience level. And she was hired and within six months or so, cut to, she became a Scrum Master. And I started observing this role. Until then, I did not understand what this role was. I didn't even know whether this role exists or not. Because back then, what used to happen was people used to follow Agile, people used to follow Scrum, but there was no dedicated role as Scrum Master. So typically a lead or a manager within the program would play a role of a Scrum Master. Because that was back then. It was a case that if a Scrum Master is to be appointed in a project, in a program, then he or she would handle all the teams under that program. So that was the notion. So suddenly this lady had become a Scrum Master. And I started observing this role and I started liking it. I was like, this sounds very interesting. I mean, this looks interesting. So I went back to my manager and said that, why did you give her an opportunity? She's like a new joiner. I'm working in this project for such a long time and you did not think of me becoming a Scrum Master. And then he told me that she's a certified Scrum Master. And that's when I understood, okay, we need to do a certification. So I went back, I did my certification, then I kind of shadowed her. And then I was just searching for an opportunity inside. Inside the same organization did not search outside. I searched for different opportunities. And I happened to join another project again, they said that, okay, we will take you as a QA Manager, because, I mean, you are excellent QA Manager. But then why would we lose an opportunity on a QA Manager to give something, a role like a Scrum Master, which is like very much new to you, and it's a risky thing to take a chance upon you. So I thought to myself, let me find out some chance or some opportunity. I'll just kind of sneak into some opportunity. So I took up that Again, a QA manager. But then my manager over there was playing a Scrum Master, and when he went on a planned lift for, I think 15 to 20 days, that's when I told him, you know what, if you're going on a lift, please give me an opportunity to play your role.

[Host]

So you were really eager to take that opportunity?

[Ramya Shastri]

Absolutely. Absolutely. So when that opportunity landed, though, it was just for a 15 days. I think it. It was for two sprints, if I'm not wrong, one enough to roughly two sprints. So I grabbed it with both the hands and I was like, no, this is my opportunity. And I started enjoying it. And then I kind of searched for different. Different forums within the organization wherein I can showcase this expertise. I started training freshers, all those things, and that's how I got into this opportunity.

[Host]

That's a very interesting story. So it was very clear for you that that's what you wanted at some point, of course, because you were thinking about career options. And of course it isn't always easy. When we start this career, there are some obstacles. We all go through those, even those that have a lot of experience. So, Ramja, we want you to share that story with us. Share a story of a moment that was a difficult moment for you as a Scrum Master. Tell us the story first. We'll dive into the takeaways later, but tell us that story.

[Ramya Shastri]

Sure. So, first of all, landing that role as a Scrum Master itself is the biggest challenge. Right. As I mentioned, no one would want us want to take a bet on us saying that, oh, I'm a fresher Scrum Master, though. I have got a very good experience into this IT industry, working in agile teams and so on. No one would want to take a bet if we say that Scrum Master is a fresher Scrum Master because it's a matter of how we portray ourselves. So that is what I realized later. So this is what my lessons learned. But then coming back to this obstacle thing, so no one was taking a bet on me. I was literally searching for an opportunity within the organization, going to each, I mean, project, talking to staffing people, saying that please give me an opportunity. And the typical answer they used to tell me was, give me was, oh, but then you are tagged under QA profile. You. It is very difficult to switch profiles. So I somehow kind of, I mean, I kind of want to say, I mean, hustle literally, and somehow try to maybe grab that opportunity. And when I grabbed that opportunity, when I started working as a Scrum Master sooner, I realized That, I mean, the, another obstacle was the sooner I realized that this is not just what I was thinking about. In my mind, the role is much deeper than what I assumed it to be. Right.

[Host]

So can you give an example of what was that kind of insight into what more it is?

[Ramya Shastri]

Yes. So when I saw as a third person, other Scrum Master perform, that lady who was working as a Scrum Master in my project, I assumed it to be like, oh, this is just kind of a facilitation and kind of a role wherein I would be able to get the work done. So first really for me was, oh, I don't have to actually work on the ground, I have to get work done by the team members. So I thought to myself, no, it's just that kind of a collaboration and not even collaboration. I thought it was just a coordination kind of a job, facilitation kind of a job. But then I realized that it is not just about coordination and facilitation. It is about understanding the team dynamics, understanding what your teams are struggling with, giving them the right direction and also enabling them to do the right thing. Providing the environment wherein they can make mistakes, wherein they can collaborate with each other, have a healthy arguments, healthy discussions, and also help them in terms of say, processes, practices. Obviously when we talk about processes and practices, right? I mean the processes are something kind of a roughly a rule book. And practices become, when we try to make those processes as a habit, right? So ensuring that people are not just sticking to the process, but then they are also making it a practice, right? So I realized later on that, okay, there is, there is much a deeper world into it. So that's when I actually started understanding. So people think that when we get into the Scrum Master role, right? So all we need to understand is the knowledge of Scrum, right? And the kind of two day certification. And yes, you will become a Scrum Master and you must know the elements of Scrum Framework. But that's not true. When you actually start working as a, as a Scrum Master, that's when you understand, okay, you need to understand the team, current ways of working, understand what are their challenges, where are they stuck with and how can you help them in unblocking or unlocking their potential, right? So that's when I realized there is a much deeper world.

[Host]

And in fact, it's great that you say that because when you think about the Scrum Master role, we can think about different layers, right? The first layer that everybody sees when they are observing a Scrum Master is the facilitation Right. Like facilitating the daily meeting, the retrospective, the planning. But there are many other facilitation layers and that's just the facilitation part that we don't see. For example, we don't see the one on ones that happen when we are not there. We don't see the emails that are sent in order to prepare or manage the expectations of stakeholders. There's a lot of different layers to that Scrum Master role. And the way I like to put it is that we work through other people, right? Like, Scrum Masters don't actually code, or at least most of us don't. Scrum Masters don't actually do product management, or at least most of us don't actually do that. Scrum Masters don't do allocation, team building and so on, although some might do, but not all of us will do that. But we still need to be able to help the team succeed despite all of those areas perhaps not being at the level that they should. Right. Like we had a story a few episodes ago, a few weeks ago, where a Scrum Master was dealing with a conflict with the manager, right? The manager of the team had a conflict with the team, or vice versa, and resolving that. So I really like that concept that you bring to our attention, which is that the Scrum Master role really has different layers that we need to pay attention to.

[Ramya Shastri]

Absolutely. And I would also like to add over here. So every Scrum Master, in my opinion, because that's what I mean when I also train and coach people, right, to become a Scrum Master or become an agile coach. This is what I've realized. Every Scrum Master goes through this Shohari level, right? I mean, when, when you get as a beginner Scrum Master, there is no way that you will understand that there is a deeper world into it. You will have to get into that grill and you will have to understand by experiencing it. Though I may sit over here and say, you know what, There is a deeper thing. But when a beginner Scrum Master begins his or her journey for them, it is always like a facilitation, coordination kind of a thing. So as and when we kind of sink in our teeth as a Scrum Master is when we will understand, okay, we are dealing at just a shoe level, or maybe now I want to go at a higher level, or maybe it will. I'll be going into the relabel, right? So we will kind of discover as we experience. And this is a very individual journey. It's like, I mean, how much ever you spend on courses, trainings and all. Unless and until you sink in your teeth yourself as a Scrum Master working on ground with the teams, you won't understand this reality.

[Host]

Yeah, that's a great point. And that's why, by the way, we interview Scrum Masters here on the podcast. Not just thought leaders. We also interview thought leaders, of course, but we interview Scrum Masters because those are the people who are struggling every single day and can bring up those lessons learned that we need to hear when we are doing the work of a Scrum Master. Ramia, thank you very much. This has been a great episode. Thank you for sharing all of those stories with us.

[Ramya Shastri]

Thank you so much. It was my pleasure. Indeed.

[Vasco Duart]

Monday is about what we learned from our obstacles and our failures, but tomorrow is Team Tuesday. Here on the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast, we explore teams and their journeys, the.

[Host]

Habits they develop that threaten their performance.

[Vasco Duart]

How each of our guests helped their teams evolve, and the one key lesson they learned from that experience. We really hope you liked our show, and if you did, why not rate this podcast on Stitcher or itunes, Share this podcast and let other Scrum Masters know about this valuable resource for their work. Remember that sharing is caring.