When a Scrum Master Needs to Hire a Manager, An Organizational Design Story | Karen Suarez

Summary

Episode Summary: When a Scrum Master Needs to Hire a Manager, An Organizational Design Story | Karen Suarez

Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte engages in a compelling conversation with Karen Suarez, a seasoned Scrum Master, about her transformative journey in organizational design. Released on March 19, 2025, this episode delves deep into the challenges and strategies involved when a Scrum Master identifies the need to introduce managerial roles within a previously manager-less department.

Karen Suarez’s Initial Situation

Karen began her role as the first Scrum Master in a department that had recently eliminated managerial positions. This transition left the team highly autonomous but also exposed underlying inefficiencies. Karen explains:

"I was the first Scrum master for the company. It was a role that nobody really knew inside the company."
— Karen Suarez, 01:37

Identifying the Problems

Despite the team's independence, several critical issues hindered productivity:

• Extended Cycle Times: The development cycle was approximately six weeks, significantly longer than the team's potential to complete tasks in just a couple of hours.

  "The cycle time was really, really long because the team was composed only by developers, coding developers... it take almost like six weeks at least."
  — Karen Suarez, 03:06

• Departmental Dependencies: Key functions such as QA engineering, product ownership, and deployment were scattered across different departments, causing delays and miscommunications.

Implementing Change: Steps Taken

Formalizing the Product Owner Role

Recognizing the absence of a dedicated Product Owner was pivotal. Karen collaborated with managers from other departments to formalize this role, enhancing product direction and team focus.

"Formalizing the product owner role... allowed us to having him."
— Karen Suarez, 04:42

She worked closely with a technically adept individual from the product department, who eventually assumed the Product Owner position, bringing clarity and structure to the team's backlog management.

Enhancing QA Collaboration

To address the prolonged cycle time caused by separate QA processes, Karen integrated QA engineers into the daily workflow:

"I invited the QA engineers to the daily with the team... we were really involving the whole development team."
— Karen Suarez, 07:17

This integration fostered real-time communication and collaboration, streamlining the testing process and reducing bottlenecks.

Building Trust with the Deployment Team

One of the most significant challenges was the lack of trust between the development team and the deployment team. The deployment team was hesitant to release updates, fearing potential disruptions.

"The deployment team didn't trust us... they were even scared of deploying something, that it was going to break everything."
— Karen Suarez, 09:17

To bridge this gap, Karen facilitated joint review sessions and allowed deployment team members to interact directly with the product in test environments. This hands-on approach gradually built mutual trust and demonstrated the development team's competence.

Overcoming Challenges: The Need for Sponsorship

Despite making progress, Karen encountered persistent issues with the deployment team, primarily due to lack of trust:

"We went from two weeks or more to one week. But actually this deployment team were only clicking on a button because of lack of trust."
— Karen Suarez, 11:25

Realizing that she needed additional support to further resolve these interpersonal and departmental challenges, Karen identified the necessity for a sponsor or facilitator.

Hiring a Facilitator/Manager

Karen spearheaded the recruitment process to bring in a facilitator with strong people skills and the authority to make decisive changes:

"We needed someone really good with people... we started making interviews, recruiting."
— Karen Suarez, 12:15

The introduction of a capable manager not only provided the necessary leadership but also helped in bridging gaps between departments, fostering a more cohesive and collaborative environment.

Outcomes and Realizations

The strategic changes led to significant improvements:

• Reduced Cycle Time: The development-deployment cycle was halved from six weeks to one week.
• Enhanced Collaboration: Formalized roles and integrated workflows improved overall team efficiency and morale.
• Strengthened Trust: Increased interactions and a facilitator's involvement solidified trust between development and deployment teams.

Key Takeaways

Karen Suarez's experience underscores the importance of adaptive leadership and the willingness to introduce necessary changes for organizational growth. Key insights include:

• Recognize and Address Interdependencies: Identifying and resolving dependencies across departments is crucial for streamlined workflows.
• Formalize Roles for Clarity: Clearly defined roles, such as a dedicated Product Owner, can significantly enhance team focus and productivity.
• Foster Collaboration and Trust: Integrating teams and promoting direct communication helps build trust and reduce inefficiencies.
• Seek Support When Needed: Bringing in experienced facilitators or managers can provide the necessary support to overcome complex challenges.

Karen concludes with a reflection on the value of flexible leadership structures and the positive impact of bringing in external support to drive organizational success.

"It was the first drastic change to decide to have someone hierarchically upon us... we needed someone really good with people."
— Karen Suarez, 12:45

Conclusion

Karen Suarez's story is a testament to the dynamic nature of Agile environments and the critical role of Scrum Masters in facilitating meaningful change. Her journey from managing an autonomous team facing inter-departmental challenges to implementing strategic solutions offers valuable lessons for Agile practitioners aiming to enhance their organizational structures and processes.

Transcript

[Vasco]

Have you ever wondered what it really takes to make Agile work well? At the Global Agile Summit, we're bringing you real life first person stories of Agile succeeding out there in the real world that will inspire you to take action. Whether you're a leader, a product innovator, a developer, you'll hear practical insights from those who've done it. They'll be telling their own stories from the stage. I'll tell you more about this at the end of this episode. So stay back and listen to the full detailed description of what we have in store for you at the Global Agile Summit. But if you can't wait, you can go right now to globalagilesummit.com and check out our full schedule for now onto the episode. But I'll see you at the end of this episode with more details on the Global Agile Summit. Talk to you soon. Hello everybody. Welcome to our Wednesday the Change Leadership.

[Unknown Host]

Episode this week with Karen Suarez. Hey Karen, welcome back.

[Karen Suarez]

Thank you, Vasco. Thank you.

[Unknown Host]

So of course Wednesday is when we talk about change, which is a big part of our work as Grandmaster. So tell us a story of a change process you were involved with, Karen and walk us through the process from beginning to end, how did it unfold and as you go through that highlight for us, the tools, the tips, the tricks and the techniques you learned back then that you still apply today.

[Karen Suarez]

Okay, so I must say I haven't been in the, in a huge, I say a huge transformation. I almost, I like to start to trigger the beginning of a transformation, the need to do things differently. So this was experience I have like four years ago. I was the first Scrum master for the company. It was a role that nobody really knew inside the company. So I joined that team in a department where there was no managers. There were some time back, but lately they decided they don't need a manager so they get rid of every manager on the department. And so I started working with the team because they needed to work on some things inside the team. But it came to a point where they had the autonomy they were going to be able to get from inside. They needed to change. There were stuff needed that needed to change outside of the team.

[Unknown Host]

So can you give an example? So if I understand you correctly, the team was already quite independent and self driven as there were no managers. But you say there were things outside the team that needed to be changed. What were some of those things?

[Karen Suarez]

For example, the cycle time was really, really long because the team was composed only by developers, coding developers. The QA engineers were in Another department, the business, which were the product. There was no product owner, but the product people were in another department. The people who deployed live the product were in another department. So it take almost like six weeks at least. It was the really minimum to get the product from. We finish an item done and we put it in production. We put it in the user's hands. The minimum was really six weeks. So it came for something that we were able to develop in, let's say two hours. To wait for six weeks was too long. So the first thing I started was working with managers in the other departments, working with people with more experience than I had in the working with people, conflict solving conflicts, deciding which is the path of career in order to work on motivation of the team members. So I started working with other people in other departments. I get closed, I got closed with one person from the product department and then he later became the product owner. So that was one first step in these changes, formalizing the product owner role. Because this person was really driven. He was bringing us on the right path with the team, in the right direction with the product. But he was having a whole bunch of responsibilities, different responsibilities. So formalizing this role allowed us to having him.

[Unknown Host]

How did that happen? Because I'm imagining it can't be that easy since this person was in another department and the department where you were had no management structure, so there were no managers. How did you navigate this? Because it can't be very easy to.

[Vasco]

Kind of like, hey, we need you over here. Right?

[Unknown Host]

Like, how did that happen?

[Karen Suarez]

At first it became organic to work with this person and he was really interested on this product. He was mastering the techniques because he was a cloud solution solution. It was really technical and he mastered the whole topic. And the other department had a manager. So I work with the manager on the other side to bring in the facts and the data to show him the value this person was bringing to the team, to the product we were building. And he kind of not blend, but he excited to see what happened. If he's focused on one single product and he saw the value of doing that, it was a really good.

[Unknown Host]

So it was kind of. You said organic. So I guess it was more like through conversations, inviting this person to come and work with the team for a few specific things. And since they understood the product and were interested in helping to define the product, then that kind of became a natural progression. Did I get it right?

[Karen Suarez]

Yes, yes, that's it. That's the way it happened. And he really liked the technical part of the product. And he was really good at it. So for him was the thing he wanted to do, the thing he was good at. And the team was receiving his help really, in a really good way. They were welcoming this help because we were lost before that. We were working in a backlog with no sense. And for the manager of this person, yes, he had to stop doing some other stuff. And the manager made a prioritization on the topics he was working on. And once he saw the value on the project we were developing together, he said, okay, let's do it as a trial. And then it stayed that way. So we got a win with the product owner. Then in parallel, I was working with the QA engineers. We didn't start to put in the role inside the team, but the communication was really regular. We were talking, the team members were talking with the QA engineers during the whole day, during the daily. Daily.

[Unknown Host]

So you, you invited the QA engineers to the daily with the team.

[Karen Suarez]

It was the first exchange. Yes. To having them on a daily basis. And then it became during the day. Hey, I have a question on this. This is ready. Can I send it to you? Can, can you test it right now? We were working with the engineers not only in the testing part, but in the conception. So, so we were really involving the whole development team of developer skills on the conception and the building of the product. So it was, it wasn't my second ex because they were working fine. Of course it's better when they are part of the team and they don't have another manager asking for some other stuff. But he was working well enough for the moment. The thing that was the hardest, that was harming the most was the team that were in charge of deploying the product because they didn't trust at first. The team I was working on with, they, they believe it was a team with few skills, with few. They couldn't trust anything. They were even scared of deploying something, that it was going to break everything. So we started, invited them to the, for example, the review, letting them manipulate the product in the test environments. And then I started working with the manager to tell them we are developing good stuff here. We have stakeholders waiting for to manipulate the product. We are not getting the product to them because it takes two weeks still to do this deployment because the team is busy with all stuff they don't yet trust enough to deploy it. Just like that, in an easy way. So we starting bringing team members from the development team to this other department to get better some skills to learn about this deployment. And that Light the charge of this other team in charge of deployment and it build trust. They started realizing these people are capable, they know what they're doing, they are interested, interested on learning. So it got better the relationship between these two. And I wanted, I needed actually at that point a sponsor. And since I was the solo.

[Unknown Host]

Wait, wait. So before you go. So the involvement I guess you could say between the deployment team and the development team started to open up the the communication but it wasn't fully resolved. And that's why you needed a sponsor, right?

[Karen Suarez]

Yes, we went from two weeks or more to one week. But actually this deployment team were only clicking on a button. But since the trust wasn't fully there, they weren't leaving this action to the development team. So I wanted to win this week because for a sprint of two weeks, having one more week just delay.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Karen Suarez]

Just for clicking on a button because lack of trust. It was a topic I needed to work on but it stayed kind of closed and the manager was really busy. So I realized we need a sponsor. I don't know if a manager but we need someone who can help me with these people skills which I need to improve. I'm still young what I'm doing. So I realized I needed help. And we decided to have not a manager but a facilitator we call it, but someone experienced with people skills who was in a position of making hard decisions and taking responsibility for this and teaching us how to deal with ourselves and with other departments. And it was the first drastic change to decide to have someone hierarchically upon us because the team at some point they decided they don't need it, they don't want it, it's constrained. And now we were, the whole department became open to that idea. We call it facilitated. But in the end he was a manager, a good manager. We needed someone really good with people.

[Unknown Host]

And where did you find that manager?

[Karen Suarez]

We started making interviews, recruiting. We started the recruiting process. We needed someone strong because we were like 70 people on the department and most of them were really decided we don't need it. So bringing the facts, saying putting in transparency the difficulties we were having and the skills we didn't have to solve them. So yeah, we got someone who was open minded but really firm and that's what we needed at that moment. So he started the process of bringing the departments closer and that's when I decided okay, the team is working in a good way all along. And now the dependencies we identify they're going to be work on. And this person came to do that. So I led the space and I went to another adventure.

[Unknown Host]

That's very good. And it's interesting that you got to a point where not just you, of course, but the whole department realized, okay, for us to get to the next stage, we need somebody to step in and take the leadership role, right? In that context it made sense. So great, let's move into it, right? And sometimes that is part of the change process we are involved with is, is to get to a point where we understand that actually somebody else now needs to take over. Somebody else needs to kind of push this to the next step. And that may mean that we go on and find other things to do or that might mean that we support this person in the things that need to be done. But it's a very important realization.

[Vasco]

So great story.

[Unknown Host]

Thank you for sharing that. Karen.

[Karen Suarez]

Thank you for.

[Vasco]

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