Vasko (3:34)

Absolutely, absolutely. Now, of course, when we start as Scrum Masters, there's a lot to learn and I don't know if that's a story you're going to share with us, but today's Fail Monday here on the podcast. So we want to explore one of those stories, Liliya, of where you know you did your best but at that time you were still learning like happens to all of us. And of course you had then a lesson learned. But before we dive into what you learned, share that story with us, Liliya.

Liliya Pulova (4:02)

The story was like when I once told my manager, I do not agree, but I accept your decision. We had a senior architect on our team that was pushing his way on a solution. Although I was offering two other solutions to choose because I had three teams in my group under my umbrella, I'd say, and they all were very different level of maturity. Some were very junior, some were more senior. And in my solution I was focusing more on a junior members of the team to make sure that their transition is smooth and easy because some solutions are not that easy to get right away, especially in if it's administrative and stuff for administrators.

Vasko (4:58)

You were worried about how this team, which was starting or had not, did not have the same level of experience in that domain. You were worried about how they would take to the solution that the senior architect was proposing. Right.

Liliya Pulova (5:12)

And then how, yeah, how it will affect their day to day operation because it was more for methodology and organizational administration, stuff like JIRA tickets creation because they, let's say two days ago, started using jira, something like that. And for them I did understand it was hard and I was not agree and I told that to my manager. But I told him we'll exercise one of the Agile principles, fail fast. At certain point I understood I just have to let go, let them try. If it's a failure, it's a failure. We'll reorganize and we'll find some other solution. But if it's a success, okay, let's do it, let's continue. It of course created a lot of overhead for other teams, a lot of confusion, but we managed to find slightly different solution. To make it easier for everyone.

Vasko (6:10)

And when you think about that story. So you had the option of creating a conflict like, okay, I don't think this will work. I think we need to go with this other solution. Or you had the option of letting it go, but you also approached it with, as you said, let's fail fast, let's learn quickly. Right? So when, when you look back, when you look back at that story, what did you learn about that experience of. Of letting it go, letting the, the idea of trying to counter the proposal from the architect go, and then focusing really on helping the team learning. Like, what do you take out of.

Liliya Pulova (6:50)

That story that sometimes you do have to let go? You do your best to coach, to convince on the best solution. But sometimes if there's too much resistance and too much stubbornness, you have to let them try.

Vasko (7:09)

Absolutely. And once we start going in that path, of course, then we need to be not necessarily discouraging, right. But we need to be clear that, okay, hey, this might not be easy and it's okay if it's not easy, but we're here to learn. So let's try to get the feedback rolling and whatever needs to be changed and we will need to tackle it. Is that how you approach or how did you approach communicating that to the team, which was less experienced?

Liliya Pulova (7:39)

First I had a conversation with my manager. I told him, I'm going to support it on every step of this journey, but I do not agree with the solution. Then I did a presentation to the team how it's going to work, and I had to technically hold their hand on every step to make sure that they understand what they doing, they understand where we heading, what value it brings for us as a team, as an organization. And of course there was a lot of resistance because overhead complication, it's not easy. But I had to take this frustration on me and to make sure that it doesn't hurt the team.

Vasko (8:20)

And how did it go then in the end, like, did the team take it well? Was there like lots of conflict? How did it go?

Liliya Pulova (8:30)

They accepted it, but I managed to find it slightly reorganized the solution. I managed to find different. Slightly. I changed the way, let's say I shifted the focus of the solution to make it easier for the team.

Vasko (8:46)

So basically you were kind of adopting but also adapting the solution to the context of that team, right?

Liliya Pulova (8:53)

Pretty much. Because people ambitions. Some people are more ambitious than others, but I understand they maybe want to show that they are experienced, they know it's easy for them. But we not all at the same level. And we have to accommodate everyone's level when we making a decision and finding a solution for something.

Vasko (9:17)

And what kind of feedback did you get from the team? Because I imagine that this went on for a while, and then at some point, either the solution was kind of accepted and just became work as usual or business as usual, or then it changed, right? Like, it was thrown away and then replaced with something else. So how did that happen over time? Like, how did the team react, what kind of feedback did you get, and how did the story end?

Liliya Pulova (9:42)

First, it was a lot of frustration. I did a lot of conversations in group, one on one, to listen, to understand their pain. Although I could say that I pretty much understood it from the very beginning, what pain it could give, and then to bring it up to the manager level for him to understand. Because sometimes what happens to managers, they don't really understand the level of our frustration and difficulties we see on a daily basis when they make a decision.

Vasko (10:16)

Yeah, absolutely. And that's very important because, of course, if we don't provide that feedback first, if we don't get the feedback from the team, and then if we don't provide that feedback to the. To the leaders in the organization, then there's nothing they can do. So it's really important for us to take on that responsibility of, okay, we are going to adopt, we are going to do it as we agreed we would do it, but then we're also going to collect feedback, we're making adjustments, whatever those might be, and we need to communicate that to, in this case, to the managers or to other teams or stakeholders, whatever the context might be, so that they are ready to understand what happens in the team. Because, I mean, I imagine that that frustration also came out, right, like in maybe not so easy conversations and. Yeah, absolutely.

Liliya Pulova (11:05)

On a daily basis.

Vasko (11:07)

Yeah, that was a very informative story and shows quite a lot of the, I would say, kind of the different aspects of this principle we talk about quite a lot, which is this. Disagree but commit. Right. Like, it's okay to disagree, but then if that's the decision, then we need to commit and we need to do it to the best of our abilities.

Liliya Pulova (11:28)

Sometimes we don't have choice. We just have to accept it.

Vasko (11:31)

Sometimes we don't have a choice. Very well said. Thank you, Liliya. All right, I hope you liked this episode, but before you hit next episode, here's the deal. This podcast is powered by people like you, the members who wanted more than just inspiration. They wanted real tools and real connection to people who are practical. Agile Every day we're talking access to over 700 hours of agile Gold, CTO level strategy talks, Summit keynotes, live workshops, E courses, Deep Dive interviews, books, and if you're into no Estimates, we got the pioneers of no Estimates in those Deep Dive interviews as well. Agile Business Intelligence, creating product visions, coaching your product owner courses, you name it. You'll get invites to monthly live Q&As with agile pioneers and practitioners, plus a private Slack community which is free of all of that AI slop you see everywhere. And of course without the flame wars. It's a community of practitioners that like, want to learn and thrive together. It's the best place to connect with community and learn together. So if this podcast has helped you before, imagine what you will get from this podcast membership. So head on over to scrummastertoolbox.org membership and join the community that's shaping the future of Agile. We have so much for you, so check out all the details@scrummastertoolbox.org membership because listening is great. It's important. But doing it together, that's next level. I'll see you in the community. Slack we really hope you liked our show. And if you did, why not rate this podcast on Stitcher or itunes? Share this podcast and let other Scrum masters know about this valuable resource for their work. Remember that sharing is caring.