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Transcript22 lines

[00:04]
A
Hey there, agile adventurer, just a quick question. What if for the price of a fancy coffee or half a pizza, you could unlock over 700 hours of the best agile content on the planet? That's audio, video, E courses, books, presentations, all that you can think of. But you can also join live calls with world class practitioners and hang out in a flame warfree and AI slop clean slack with the sharpest minds in the game. Oh, and yes, you get direct access to me, Vasko, your Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. No, this is not a drill. It's the Scrum Master Toolbox membership and it's your unfair advantage in the agile world. So if you want to know more, go check out scrummastertoolbox.org membership, that's scrummastertoolbox.org Membership. And check out all the goodies we have for you. Do it now. But if you're not doing it now, let's listen to the podcast.
[01:12]
B
Hello everybody. Welcome to one more week of the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. And this week, joining us from Germany is Hava Sevai. Hey Hawa, welcome to the show.
[01:22]
C
Hi Vasco, nice to meet you and thank you for having me here today.
[01:26]
B
Absolutely. So let me tell a little bit about Hava. She's a people focused organizational development expert with a Master's in business administration and a certification as a Scrum Master. She empowers teams and leaders through agile methods, modern leadership and strong feedback culture, fostering psychological safety and collaboration. She's also passionate about HR initiatives and Ava shapes people strategies, enhances employee experience and drives inclusive, pardon me, high performing workplaces built on trust and engagement. So Hava, that was a short intro. Tell us a little bit more about yourself and how did you end up becoming a Scrum Master.
[02:11]
C
Yes, five years ago, before I became a Scrum Master, I was a project controller and it was quite interesting because I saw already teams around and I was calculating and then I didn't understand all behind it. I heard all colleagues, they work in Scrum, they're working Agile. And I knew the old word like the waterfall system. And I asked a real Scrum Master, what is your profession? What are you doing? The person was explaining to me their role and they said he's a team coach. And then the person said, you can come to our Scrum ceremonies, you can still self experience that. And I thought it was really a good idea to introduce me the career a bit more. So I joined all the Scrum ceremonies and I also knew more about more what the product owner is doing with the developer. It was. It felt my more you're in the team, not like outcasted in my little Excel sheets. And then I decided, why not? I also want to become a Scrum Master. So then I was pursuing for myself getting the certificates, and then I left my controlling job and then I just started as a Scrum Master.
[03:25]
B
I like how you describe it, that you feel like you're part of the team rather than an outsider with spreadsheets. I think that's a great way to describe it because of course, Scrum Masters are working with the team, sometimes even several teams all the time now. That doesn't make the work necessarily easier and we'll talk about that for sure. Today is Fail Monday here on the podcast, so we want to explore one of those stories Hava or one of those stories where as a Scrum Master, you did your best, but as it often happens, the best just wasn't good enough at the time. So tell us that story. We'll dive into the takeaways and lessons learned later. But tell us that story first.
[04:04]
C
I remember when I took my first Scrum job, I really knew about this framework everything and I just wanted to do my really best. I was pretty highly motivated at that time and just really worked at the first time through the framework and just thought, okay, do what a framework is saying. I didn't really acknowledge that the team is important or what the team needs was. I thought I was only focusing getting your job done, but how and whatever. So that was the big question. And I just were really frustrated when I saw my first failure and I said, why did I fail? I did it. I really did my best. And I remember then I got my mentor who joined me later in the company and I asked him, I raised the question, I gave all the points and he says, did you really thought about the team? What was the team needs? What does the team referring, why you were failing so even you did your very hardest best. And I said, okay. I didn't first realize what he tried to say then time to time, I think when he really joins me, really guided me about more of the agile work as a mentor. Then I realized my mistakes and I thought, oh, okay. I didn't really ask, I didn't really said, what do you need? I just judged pretty quick that I didn't listen, I didn't step back. So that was one of my.
[05:29]
B
I would say, so walk us through, Walk us through that because I'm sure many of our listeners are feeling the same, right? Like maybe I was Too quick to move on to the next steps. Maybe I was too hasty in calling for actions. There are many forms that this not listening and pushing things forward can take. And having been a project manager myself, I can totally see that natural tendency for anyone working in that kind of position in the past. So explain to us what were some of the symptoms that kind of gave you the intuition that maybe I should talk to my mentor about this.
[06:09]
C
And because I saw not a result which I wanted to achieve, so I just were only frustrated and I thought, okay, I just made some notes what I observed instead of judged. So I just rewrite on my observation. And then I taught him only the situation and he understood what the situation was. And he just told me about listening. And I said, what is active listening? And we practice that active listening, which I realized, oh, don't everything in your heart just get out of your heart and just write on what a person originally said, not in your imaginary. So that was the challenge at the beginning. Active listening, we call it active listening at that time.
[06:54]
B
Of course, active listening being one of the core, I should say superpowers for Scrum masters. How did that transformation then go when you started applying those lessons? Like what started changing? What could you see becoming different as you took this different stance and applied active listening, among other strategies.
[07:15]
C
It's not only active listening. And one of the part, as you already mentioned, the other part is also and the needs of the people saying they wanted to see change. If they open up and tell you what they bother, what is their impediment? It's not like they want to tell you ten times the same because they want to see changes. And my also my job was to remove impediments. So then finding a strategy to the other forwards. How can I solve the problem that everybody's happy or can you make it possible? That was the, that was the next step after active listening.
[07:51]
B
So how did the team react? Like when, when you started taking this stance of listening to people and then figuring out, okay, how can I help you? And maybe even taking action with them, what was the reaction from the team? Like what did you see change in how they acted or how they behaved?
[08:11]
C
I think they were more happy to open up more. They gave me a direct feedback to say, hey, if I compare to you like four months ago, I can see progresses and I can see that you listen. You not only listen, you act, you try to find solutions. And also if there's some conflicts in the team, you bring people together. You just always find the best solution of Both parts. So they see it really. I'm not only the passive or the active part. So realizing when can I act? When do I have to step back? This is the day. Said they've realized this change in me.
[08:46]
B
Yeah. And what helped you to find that difference? Because, of course, you were practicing with your mentor and learning about active listening and other strategies. And what helped you really realize that line between when it's time to wait and when it's time to really take action with the team?
[09:05]
C
Oh, there was a progress. I would say I really needed to learn that. Sometimes he taught me silence. Don't say something. Just keep this. And I really struggled at the very beginning of the silence. And I said, okay, this practice, that. And after I was practicing, it was actually enjoyable. Not saying anything, just observing. So there was really enjoying, like, say, oh, it was like music in my ear to say, hey, I finally realized what the message was. So also, the message has to reach me out in the end. So that was also a step which I learned in this progress.
[09:42]
B
Yeah. And I think this story very much illustrates that kind of idea, that becoming a better Scrum Master is an everyday process and it takes its time, and it's not something we should rush into, but that we should expect that it takes time and there's different steps we need to go through. And I think your story really illustrated that clearly. For those Scrum Masters out there that are perhaps closer to the beginning of the journey you just described, can you share with us what helped you to, you know, stay grounded and be patient over the duration of that journey?
[10:22]
C
I was also thinking taking courses outside because I only saw in my bubble what happened and was good, getting influence on the outside. So also we're looking for courses outside, influence from outside and just observing them, also learning from other people's experience. So it also, I did had my networking. I started networking, sharing people's stories to know what it was, your experience. What is my experience? That was what I was doing that after, as a Scrum Master, after my first couple of months on Steps, I was really saying, yeah, that was the step I want to go forward.
[10:59]
B
Absolutely. And that's beautiful, of course, because we are right here doing that very same sharing. Right. Like hoping that others will listen to your story. Hava. And be inspired and understand. Understand what steps they need to take. And of course, check out the Scrum Master tips from the Trenches audiobook that we have on the podcast. It's in the show notes, so just check it out and you will find it. And the idea There is exactly the same to learn from the experiences of others. And those are just collected interviews from over 30 different scrum masters and very experienced Agile people from all over the world. So thank you for sharing that story with us, Hava.
[11:42]
C
You're welcome. Thanks for having me here.
[11:47]
A
All right, I hope you like this episode, but before you hit next episode, here's the deal. This podcast is powered by people like you, the members who wanted more than just inspiration. They wanted real tools and real connection to people who are practicing agile. Every day we're talking access to over 700 hours of agile gold, CTO level strategy talks, summit keynotes, live workshops, E courses, Deep Dive interviews, books, and if you're into no estimates, we got the pioneers of no Estimates in those Deep Dive interviews as well. Agile Business Intelligence, creating product visions, coaching your product owner courses, you name it. You'll get invites to monthly live Q&As with agile pioneers and practitioners, plus a private Slack community which is free of all of that AI slop you see everywhere. And of course, without the flame wars. It's a community of practitioners that want to learn and thrive together. It's the best place to connect with community and learn together. So if this podcast has helped you before, imagine what you will get from this podcast membership. So head on over to scrummastertoolbox.org membership and join the community that's shaping the future of Agile. We have so much for you, so check out all the details@scrummastertoolbox.org membership because listening is great, it's important. But doing it together, that's next level. I'll see you in the community.
[13:37]
C
Slack
[13:39]
B
we really hope you liked our show. And if you did, why not rate this podcast on Stitcher or itunes? Share this podcast and let other Scrum Masters know about this valuable resource for their work. Remember that sharing is caring.

Summary5 min read

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches
Episode: When Doing Your Best Isn't Enough—The Scrum Master Lesson That Changed Everything | Havva Sevay
Host: Vasco Duarte
Guest: Havva Sevay, People-focused Organizational Development Expert and Scrum Master
Date: August 3, 2026

Overview of the Episode

This episode delves into a pivotal lesson every Scrum Master inevitably faces: discovering that following the framework and "doing your best" isn't always enough to ensure team success. Havva Sevay joins host Vasco Duarte to share her journey from project controller to Scrum Master, highlighting a personal failure that catalyzed her transformation into a more effective, people-centric agile practitioner. The conversation explores themes of self-reflection, active listening, psychological safety, and continuous learning, providing listeners with actionable advice for navigating their own growth as agile leaders.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Havva’s Journey to Becoming a Scrum Master

[01:26-03:25]

Havva began her career as a project controller, mainly observing from outside the team and focusing on "Excel sheets" and traditional waterfall methods.
Her curiosity about Scrum roles grew after talking to a real Scrum Master who invited her to observe Scrum ceremonies.
Experiencing agile teamwork firsthand and recognizing the contrast between feeling isolated and being part of a collaborative team inspired her to pursue Scrum Master certification and transition careers.

Memorable Quote:

"It felt more like you're in the team, not like outcasted in my little Excel sheets. And then I decided, why not? I also want to become a Scrum Master." — Havva Sevay [02:36]

Fail Monday: The Lesson That Changed Everything

[03:25-05:28]

In her first Scrum Master role, Havva was highly motivated, diligently applying the Scrum framework but saw disappointing results.
She focused on completing tasks according to process without considering her team's specific needs or perspectives.
A valuable mentoring experience prompted Havva to recognize that team success depends on understanding and addressing what people truly need—simply "doing the job" is not enough.

Memorable Quote:

“I just wanted to do my really best... I didn't really acknowledge that the team is important or what the team needs was... I was only focusing on getting your job done, but how and whatever. So that was the big question.” — Havva Sevay [04:14]

The Power of Active Listening

[06:09-07:51]

Noticing a lack of desired outcomes, Havva's frustration led her to seek guidance from her mentor, who introduced her to the concept of active listening.
She learned to observe situations objectively and write down what was actually said, avoiding assumptions.
Active listening emerged as a cornerstone skill, helping her understand team members' perspectives and underlying needs.

Memorable Quote:

"Don't [keep] everything in your heart, just get out of your heart and just write on what a person originally said, not in your imaginary. So that was the challenge at the beginning. Active listening..." — Havva Sevay [06:37]

When and How to Take Action

[07:51-08:46]

Havva realized that after listening, taking timely and appropriate action is crucial, especially when removing impediments.
Team members revealed challenges because they wanted change, not just to be heard.

Memorable Quote:

“It's not like they want to tell you ten times the same because they want to see changes. And also, my job was to remove impediments.” — Havva Sevay [07:24]

The Team's Response and Personal Growth

[08:10-09:42]

As Havva honed her listening and supportive skills, the team's trust and openness increased.
She received feedback that her shift—from being only reactive or proactive to discerning when to step back or act—made a tangible difference in team dynamics and problem resolution.
Learning to embrace silence and observation became unexpected sources of insight.

Memorable Quote:

“They said they've realized this change in me. ...Realizing when can I act? When do I have to step back? This is the... change they realized.” — Havva Sevay [08:44]

The Ongoing Journey: Learning & Patience

[09:42-10:59]

Vasco highlights that learning to be an effective Scrum Master is a gradual, continuous process.
Havva recommends connecting with the wider agile community, networking, and learning from others' stories to stay grounded and accelerate professional growth.

Memorable Quote:

“I started networking, sharing people's stories to know what it was—your experience, what is my experience?... that was the step I want to go forward.” — Havva Sevay [10:47]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Transitioning Careers:
— “It felt more like you're in the team, not like outcasted in my little Excel sheets.”
([02:36], Havva Sevay)
On the Limits of Doing Your Best:
— “Why did I fail? I did it. I really did my best.”
([04:18], Havva Sevay)
On Active Listening:
— “Don't [keep] everything in your heart...just write on what a person originally said, not in your imaginary.”
([06:37], Havva Sevay)
On Embracing Silence and Patience:
— “Sometimes [my mentor] taught me silence. Don't say something. Just keep this... After I was practicing, it was actually enjoyable. Not saying anything, just observing.”
([09:05], Havva Sevay)
On Power of Networking and Shared Learning:
— "I started networking, sharing people's stories to know what it was—your experience, what is my experience?"
([10:47], Havva Sevay)

Important Segments (Timestamps)

[01:26-03:25] — Havva's introduction and journey to Scrum Mastery
[03:25-05:28] — First major failure and lesson in people-centricity
[06:09-07:51] — Discovery and application of active listening
[07:51-09:42] — Acting on team needs and building trust
[09:42-10:59] — The importance of patience, networking, and learning continuously

Tone and Closing Thoughts

Authentic and candid, the conversation is supportive, constructive, and relatable for anyone navigating the often-challenging early days of Scrum Mastery. The episode reinforces that true agile leadership is not about rigidly following frameworks, but about empathy, strategic action, and a willingness to grow alongside your team.

For further candid stories and practical Scrum insights, check out the podcast's audiobook and stay connected with the wider agile community!

Loading summary

Transcript22 lines

[00:04]
A
Hey there, agile adventurer, just a quick question. What if for the price of a fancy coffee or half a pizza, you could unlock over 700 hours of the best agile content on the planet? That's audio, video, E courses, books, presentations, all that you can think of. But you can also join live calls with world class practitioners and hang out in a flame warfree and AI slop clean slack with the sharpest minds in the game. Oh, and yes, you get direct access to me, Vasko, your Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. No, this is not a drill. It's the Scrum Master Toolbox membership and it's your unfair advantage in the agile world. So if you want to know more, go check out scrummastertoolbox.org membership, that's scrummastertoolbox.org Membership. And check out all the goodies we have for you. Do it now. But if you're not doing it now, let's listen to the podcast.
[01:12]
B
Hello everybody. Welcome to one more week of the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. And this week, joining us from Germany is Hava Sevai. Hey Hawa, welcome to the show.
[01:22]
C
Hi Vasco, nice to meet you and thank you for having me here today.
[01:26]
B
Absolutely. So let me tell a little bit about Hava. She's a people focused organizational development expert with a Master's in business administration and a certification as a Scrum Master. She empowers teams and leaders through agile methods, modern leadership and strong feedback culture, fostering psychological safety and collaboration. She's also passionate about HR initiatives and Ava shapes people strategies, enhances employee experience and drives inclusive, pardon me, high performing workplaces built on trust and engagement. So Hava, that was a short intro. Tell us a little bit more about yourself and how did you end up becoming a Scrum Master.
[02:11]
C
Yes, five years ago, before I became a Scrum Master, I was a project controller and it was quite interesting because I saw already teams around and I was calculating and then I didn't understand all behind it. I heard all colleagues, they work in Scrum, they're working Agile. And I knew the old word like the waterfall system. And I asked a real Scrum Master, what is your profession? What are you doing? The person was explaining to me their role and they said he's a team coach. And then the person said, you can come to our Scrum ceremonies, you can still self experience that. And I thought it was really a good idea to introduce me the career a bit more. So I joined all the Scrum ceremonies and I also knew more about more what the product owner is doing with the developer. It was. It felt my more you're in the team, not like outcasted in my little Excel sheets. And then I decided, why not? I also want to become a Scrum Master. So then I was pursuing for myself getting the certificates, and then I left my controlling job and then I just started as a Scrum Master.
[03:25]
B
I like how you describe it, that you feel like you're part of the team rather than an outsider with spreadsheets. I think that's a great way to describe it because of course, Scrum Masters are working with the team, sometimes even several teams all the time now. That doesn't make the work necessarily easier and we'll talk about that for sure. Today is Fail Monday here on the podcast, so we want to explore one of those stories Hava or one of those stories where as a Scrum Master, you did your best, but as it often happens, the best just wasn't good enough at the time. So tell us that story. We'll dive into the takeaways and lessons learned later. But tell us that story first.
[04:04]
C
I remember when I took my first Scrum job, I really knew about this framework everything and I just wanted to do my really best. I was pretty highly motivated at that time and just really worked at the first time through the framework and just thought, okay, do what a framework is saying. I didn't really acknowledge that the team is important or what the team needs was. I thought I was only focusing getting your job done, but how and whatever. So that was the big question. And I just were really frustrated when I saw my first failure and I said, why did I fail? I did it. I really did my best. And I remember then I got my mentor who joined me later in the company and I asked him, I raised the question, I gave all the points and he says, did you really thought about the team? What was the team needs? What does the team referring, why you were failing so even you did your very hardest best. And I said, okay. I didn't first realize what he tried to say then time to time, I think when he really joins me, really guided me about more of the agile work as a mentor. Then I realized my mistakes and I thought, oh, okay. I didn't really ask, I didn't really said, what do you need? I just judged pretty quick that I didn't listen, I didn't step back. So that was one of my.
[05:29]
B
I would say, so walk us through, Walk us through that because I'm sure many of our listeners are feeling the same, right? Like maybe I was Too quick to move on to the next steps. Maybe I was too hasty in calling for actions. There are many forms that this not listening and pushing things forward can take. And having been a project manager myself, I can totally see that natural tendency for anyone working in that kind of position in the past. So explain to us what were some of the symptoms that kind of gave you the intuition that maybe I should talk to my mentor about this.
[06:09]
C
And because I saw not a result which I wanted to achieve, so I just were only frustrated and I thought, okay, I just made some notes what I observed instead of judged. So I just rewrite on my observation. And then I taught him only the situation and he understood what the situation was. And he just told me about listening. And I said, what is active listening? And we practice that active listening, which I realized, oh, don't everything in your heart just get out of your heart and just write on what a person originally said, not in your imaginary. So that was the challenge at the beginning. Active listening, we call it active listening at that time.
[06:54]
B
Of course, active listening being one of the core, I should say superpowers for Scrum masters. How did that transformation then go when you started applying those lessons? Like what started changing? What could you see becoming different as you took this different stance and applied active listening, among other strategies.
[07:15]
C
It's not only active listening. And one of the part, as you already mentioned, the other part is also and the needs of the people saying they wanted to see change. If they open up and tell you what they bother, what is their impediment? It's not like they want to tell you ten times the same because they want to see changes. And my also my job was to remove impediments. So then finding a strategy to the other forwards. How can I solve the problem that everybody's happy or can you make it possible? That was the, that was the next step after active listening.
[07:51]
B
So how did the team react? Like when, when you started taking this stance of listening to people and then figuring out, okay, how can I help you? And maybe even taking action with them, what was the reaction from the team? Like what did you see change in how they acted or how they behaved?
[08:11]
C
I think they were more happy to open up more. They gave me a direct feedback to say, hey, if I compare to you like four months ago, I can see progresses and I can see that you listen. You not only listen, you act, you try to find solutions. And also if there's some conflicts in the team, you bring people together. You just always find the best solution of Both parts. So they see it really. I'm not only the passive or the active part. So realizing when can I act? When do I have to step back? This is the day. Said they've realized this change in me.
[08:46]
B
Yeah. And what helped you to find that difference? Because, of course, you were practicing with your mentor and learning about active listening and other strategies. And what helped you really realize that line between when it's time to wait and when it's time to really take action with the team?
[09:05]
C
Oh, there was a progress. I would say I really needed to learn that. Sometimes he taught me silence. Don't say something. Just keep this. And I really struggled at the very beginning of the silence. And I said, okay, this practice, that. And after I was practicing, it was actually enjoyable. Not saying anything, just observing. So there was really enjoying, like, say, oh, it was like music in my ear to say, hey, I finally realized what the message was. So also, the message has to reach me out in the end. So that was also a step which I learned in this progress.
[09:42]
B
Yeah. And I think this story very much illustrates that kind of idea, that becoming a better Scrum Master is an everyday process and it takes its time, and it's not something we should rush into, but that we should expect that it takes time and there's different steps we need to go through. And I think your story really illustrated that clearly. For those Scrum Masters out there that are perhaps closer to the beginning of the journey you just described, can you share with us what helped you to, you know, stay grounded and be patient over the duration of that journey?
[10:22]
C
I was also thinking taking courses outside because I only saw in my bubble what happened and was good, getting influence on the outside. So also we're looking for courses outside, influence from outside and just observing them, also learning from other people's experience. So it also, I did had my networking. I started networking, sharing people's stories to know what it was, your experience. What is my experience? That was what I was doing that after, as a Scrum Master, after my first couple of months on Steps, I was really saying, yeah, that was the step I want to go forward.
[10:59]
B
Absolutely. And that's beautiful, of course, because we are right here doing that very same sharing. Right. Like hoping that others will listen to your story. Hava. And be inspired and understand. Understand what steps they need to take. And of course, check out the Scrum Master tips from the Trenches audiobook that we have on the podcast. It's in the show notes, so just check it out and you will find it. And the idea There is exactly the same to learn from the experiences of others. And those are just collected interviews from over 30 different scrum masters and very experienced Agile people from all over the world. So thank you for sharing that story with us, Hava.
[11:42]
C
You're welcome. Thanks for having me here.
[11:47]
A
All right, I hope you like this episode, but before you hit next episode, here's the deal. This podcast is powered by people like you, the members who wanted more than just inspiration. They wanted real tools and real connection to people who are practicing agile. Every day we're talking access to over 700 hours of agile gold, CTO level strategy talks, summit keynotes, live workshops, E courses, Deep Dive interviews, books, and if you're into no estimates, we got the pioneers of no Estimates in those Deep Dive interviews as well. Agile Business Intelligence, creating product visions, coaching your product owner courses, you name it. You'll get invites to monthly live Q&As with agile pioneers and practitioners, plus a private Slack community which is free of all of that AI slop you see everywhere. And of course, without the flame wars. It's a community of practitioners that want to learn and thrive together. It's the best place to connect with community and learn together. So if this podcast has helped you before, imagine what you will get from this podcast membership. So head on over to scrummastertoolbox.org membership and join the community that's shaping the future of Agile. We have so much for you, so check out all the details@scrummastertoolbox.org membership because listening is great, it's important. But doing it together, that's next level. I'll see you in the community.
[13:37]
C
Slack
[13:39]
B
we really hope you liked our show. And if you did, why not rate this podcast on Stitcher or itunes? Share this podcast and let other Scrum Masters know about this valuable resource for their work. Remember that sharing is caring.