Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile Storytelling from the Trenches
Episode: When Enthusiasm Became Interference—Learning to Listen as a Scrum Master | Darryl Wright
Host: Vasco Duarte
Guest: Darryl Wright, Agile Coach and Instructor
Date: October 27, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode centers on the pivotal shift from enthusiastic interference to empowering leadership as a Scrum Master. Darryl Wright, an experienced Agile Coach from Melbourne, shares an honest and insightful story about how his initial fervor as a Scrum Master led him to dominate conversations and offer solutions too quickly—only to learn how much more empowering it is to create space for others. Throughout the conversation, Darryl and Vasco explore practical approaches to fostering shared leadership, the importance of active listening, and the power of stepping back to allow growth within Agile teams.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Darryl's Journey into Agile and Scrum Mastery
[02:02]
- Transitioned from traditional business management into Agile after recognizing his natural inclination for collaboration and relationship-based work.
- First exposure to Agile at Telstra, where he encountered a thriving, highly productive, and fun team atmosphere.
- Realized, “the way I liked to work actually had a name,” which fueled his passion for Agile principles.
Quote
“I never knew that the way I worked or the way I wanted to work had a name. Turns out it has a name. That’s amazing. And so, yeah, from that moment on, I knew that was the way for me for the future.”
— Darryl Wright [03:33]
The Failure Moment—When Enthusiasm Becomes Interference
[04:37]
- Early in his Scrum Master journey, Darryl admits to being overly eager and "a bit evangelical" about Agile, often jumping in with solutions and dominating discussions.
- This behavior inadvertently prevented others from contributing and taking ownership of problems.
Quote
“I was very keen and a bit evangelical about it. And I felt like I had all the answers that people were seeking… I was always offering solutions and ideas and suggestions.”
— Darryl Wright [04:45]
- A colleague noticed this pattern and introduced Darryl to the acronym W.A.I.T.: Why Am I Talking.
The “W.A.I.T.” Tool
[05:49]
- Before jumping in, Darryl learned to pause and ask: "Why am I talking?"
- This practice uncovered his tendency to dominate and shifted his approach toward active listening and space-holding.
Quote
“It was just such a generous gift… I really took to noticing how often I had that tendency to jump in. And so I started using WAIT all the time… It’s been amazing to develop so much better skills in active listening.”
— Darryl Wright [06:23]
Navigating When (and How) to Intervene
[06:57]
- Vasco raises a common Scrum Master dilemma: what if you see the team about to make a mistake?
- Darryl’s approach: Apply a risk lens—ask, "Is this small enough to try, safe enough to fail?"
- Emphasizes letting teams own their learning journeys; only intervene when critical.
- Illustrates parallel to parenting: learning from one’s own mistakes is far more powerful.
Quote
“Is this something that’s small enough to try, safe enough to fail? If it is, do I let them make a decision or go down a direction… and let them discover for themselves?”
— Darryl Wright [07:36]
Quote
“They don’t learn from my mistakes. They only learn from their own mistakes.”
— Darryl Wright [07:54]
- Noted that often, when giving people more time, someone in the group will arrive at the right idea or solution, creating an “empowering moment.”
Empowering Teams and Fostering Shared Leadership
[09:16]
- Vasco expands: Scrum Masters must enable others to step into shared leadership, resisting the urge to fill the silence or always provide answers.
- Prematurely jumping in teaches teams it’s “okay to be silent even when they have something to say”.
- The true role of the Scrum Master is to “create the potential for shared leadership.”
Quote
“Our job is to create the potential for shared leadership where everybody can come in at any point and bring their thoughts and their perspective and enter.”
— Vasco Duarte [09:23]
- Darryl now sees himself as a “backup,” stepping in only if no one else surfaces the necessary insight.
Quote
“My role… is to try and create that space and hold that space for someone to step up and have that leadership moment or that idea or whatever… But first I’m going to hold the space to see if someone else can do it.”
— Darryl Wright [10:10]
Techniques for "Holding the Space"
[10:29]
- Vasco references prior episodes (with David Marquet) on techniques for “holding the space”—creating conditions for others to lead without abdicating responsibility as a facilitator.
- Even when intervention is necessary, it should be done in a way that maintains shared ownership and encourages leadership from the team.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “WAIT—Why Am I Talking? Is it because you want to prove yourself, or is it because you think you know better… or is this the right moment just to listen?” — Darryl Wright [05:53]
- “I can’t stop [my kids] from making mistakes, and they don’t learn from my mistakes… they only learn from their own mistakes.” — Darryl Wright [07:54]
- “When I enter the conversation before I give option to the others… I’m actually teaching them it’s okay to be silent even when they have something to say.” — Vasco Duarte [09:30]
- “Now… I’m kind of more as a backup. If no one else can see this or come up with this idea, then I’m here…” — Darryl Wright [10:10]
Key Takeaways
- Step Back to Empower: Scrum Masters add the most value when they step back and allow others to contribute, fostering leadership in the team.
- Practice Active Listening: Use tools like W.A.I.T. to ensure you aren’t dominating discussions unnecessarily.
- Support Safe Experimentation: Let teams try and (safely) fail; real learning happens through ownership.
- Hold the Space: Both stepping back and knowing how to step in without usurping the team’s agency are vital skills for Scrum Masters.
Timestamps for Important Segments
| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|--------------------| | 02:02 | Darryl's background and discovery of Agile | | 04:37 | Early failure: Enthusiasm as interference | | 05:49 | The W.A.I.T. tool and its impact | | 06:57 | When to intervene vs. hold back | | 09:16 | Enabling shared leadership | | 10:29 | Techniques for “holding the space” | | 11:10 | Appreciating contributions from thought leaders |
Final Thoughts
This episode is an essential listen for Scrum Masters and Agile coaches seeking to deepen their leadership by listening, real empowerment, and team development. Darryl’s candor about his learning journey, combined with practical advice and memorable frameworks, offers valuable lessons for every stage of the Agile path.