Vasco (4:18)

But you talked about resistance before, before we go any further, like so there was this resistance. You were not sure where it was coming from or what was it all about. It was surprising as you described it. And then you started working with these teams. Right. Like a certain number of teams. Did you feel the same resistance within the teams or was it something that was coming from outside the teams that you were directly support?

Clinton Keith (4:48)

It came from a certain line manager and his people and they were spread across multiple teams. And I also dig a bit deeper than why is there such a resistance? And one thing that I found out was that the performance management system was incentivizing individual performance. So there are bonuses. And this was especially one area here. The bonuses were based on the individual performance. So they feared that if they are part of a team which is not high performing or which is like somehow reducing their perceived individual performance because they are not part of that bad team, let's say, that could have a direct impact on their bonus.

Richard Brenner (5:55)

Which actually highlights.

Vasco (5:56)

The importance of having these bonuses systems align with the change that we are trying to bring in. Right. Because in this case I think it's a very valid question. If the bonuses are individual and then my team is not good, but I'm really good, then isn't that bad for me. Of course that question gets asked already is quite telling about the culture in the organization.

Clinton Keith (6:22)

Yeah. And the good thing in that particular example was that we figured out what the problem was. And this setup then also kickstarted a pilot for a new performance management system. So we also started from that point a conversation with HR and the management. How can we make sure that we incentivize teamwork and incentivize teams and also the product success. It was ultimately we want to have a successful product and a successful team. And of course there are individual parts as well. But it doesn't make sense if you Have a high performing tester if the rest of the team isn't producing the software, let's put it like that. So we started this conversation and it changed then from that point on they really stick to it and change the whole performance management system later on. And that was a huge step for me to see, okay, there's something triggered from that change that changes even the whole organization and the thinking process about performance. So that was good. What happened then was that in the retrospectives of the teams there was often the feedback the teams are not working. We had so many interdependencies between the teams and people could not hold the plan so they were never really finishing the plan. So they said that the method we are using and also the team structure is not really working. And okay, we had our weekly meetings with the management there and we discussed those topics all the time. We said, yeah, let's give it some time because you know, this storming phase performing. So it might take some time. But what I did then was also have a retrospective with all the people after three months. And for me that's a crucial step because then we discussed what is going well, what is not going well in the teams and also in the whole setup. It was called, this was a retrospective.

Vasco (8:55)

With everybody, like all the teams, management.

Clinton Keith (8:58)

Teams and management and that for me the learning is, I will come to the learning. But that was already a good step that everybody was there. And we came up again with one point was the team structure is not working. And for me the interesting part was then and the good part. How did management react to that? Because I think that changed a lot in the acceptance of this change because they said, good, we came up with the first setup, but now we give this to you. So let's form a group of, let's say a small team with a good mixture of people from the whole setup. And you get the task to come up with a better working setup of teams. And you can also decide on the method you are using, like Scrum, Kanban or whatever. But we have this and that goals and you need to make sure that this works still. So the good thing was A, we had goals, B, management listened to this and they reacted by giving the responsibility really to the teams to come up with a solution. And I was so to say that the product owner of that team that came up with the solution because I said, look, I want to be part of it because they might not have the skills to decide on Kanban or Scrum because usually what I learned is that people like Kanban because they think we have less meetings and less change to Kanban is easier. That just wanted to avoid this and I didn't want to decide ultimately, but I wanted to bring in that discussions and yeah, they came up with a solution. They decided that Scrum is still the way to go for them, not Kanban. And from that point on I think there was a very big acceptance, even the biggest critics. One of the Scrum master said to one guy, look, you need to be part of it because you are criticizing the whole setup from the beginning. If you're not taking part of this now, you need to shut up later. So he was very direct, either participate.

Richard Brenner (11:29)

Or then just accept.

Vasco (11:31)

Indeed.

Clinton Keith (11:32)

Exactly. Exactly. And he did participate and he was then one of the biggest promoters of that whole setup.

Vasco (11:40)

That is also an insight that I have shared in my experience that sometimes the biggest critics, when they are involved and they are part of the process, they become the biggest promoters of the change.

Clinton Keith (11:53)

Exactly what I've experienced. Yes.

Vasco (11:55)

Yeah. It's an interesting pattern, isn't it?

Clinton Keith (11:59)

Yeah. I'm always curious about people. Usually when you get to into new setup or new team, someone is warning you, look, there is this guy or this person here, this girl here. They are always difficult and I'm always looking forward to talking to them because usually they have a lot to say and to contribute. Exactly, Absolutely.

Richard Brenner (12:27)

That's a great story. Thank you for all of those details. A lot of tips here.

Vasco (12:31)

Thank you for sharing that, Richard.

Clinton Keith (12:33)

You're welcome.

Richard Brenner (12:38)

Hey friend, thank you for staying here. Is all you need to know about the Global Agile Summit. If you've ever suffered or know people who are suffering from Agile fatigue, this event is for you. Agile fatigue is that feeling that settles in when we can't really see a light at the end of the tunnel. We get discouraged. Especially when conversations revolve around the same old frameworks, the same old buzzwords and theories. We don't feel that energy anymore. Well, the Global Agile Summit is a different kind of event. We're bringing you real life first person stories of agile succeeding out there in the real world that will inspire you to take action and transform the way you work. The Global Agile Summit will happen In Tallinn, Estonia, May 18th. That's the workshop day. Then 19th and 20th the conference day. And Tallinn, Estonia is one of the most innovative tech hubs in Europe. The Global Agile Summit is hosted together with Latitude 59, which is kind of a citywide celebration of software startups and groundbreaking ideas. And we'll have a shared ticket for you to attend those events as well. So who will be speaking? Well, we've got an incredible lineup of thought leaders in software and agile. For example, Clinton Keith, the person who wrote literally wrote the book on game development with Scrum and is busy bringing Agile to the world of game development. You must check his session. The very famous and well known Jurgen Apello, author of Management 3.0, will be talking and exploring about AI's impact on leadership. We also have Goiko Adsic, who's taking an unconventional look at the product growth with his Lizard Optimization keynote. Other speakers include, for example Sven Dietz, whose Challenging adv everything we know about software development by ditching, literally ditching contracts and estimates. Can you imagine his teams deliver software before their competitors are even done with the contract negotiation? How agile is that? But there's more. We'll cover engineering practices in our developer track with talks on, for example AI assisted test driven development, developing products in minutes with a different approach to how we develop, configure, deploy platforms, and much more. We also have a product track where we cover cutting edge ideas around product discovery, delighting customers with product delight frameworks. We'll have a talk about that. And we also have an Agile Business track where we will talk about, for example Open strategy, a very agile approach to managing organizations and delivering software faster to clients faster than you can even write a contract. Literally. I mean, I already told you about Svendit's story is amazing. It definitely is a must see. I'm sure you'll be inspired and get a lot of ideas for your own software projects and software delivery. Now, whether you're a business leader, a product innovator or a developer, you'll definitely find value in our three focused tracks. That's Agile Business for those working with businesses and organizations Agile Product for product managers, product owners and innovators and Agile developer for this the builders making Agile work in practice, the coders, the testers, the designers, the producers, the Scrum masters, you name it. If you join, you will meet over 200 agile professionals from all over the world. People who just like you, want to grow, want to share and want to learn by challenging the ideas that don't work anymore. At the Global Agile Summit, you'll get new connections, fresh ideas and the energy to take your own Agile to the next level. And who knows, maybe even find your next career opportunity. So don't miss out. Check out the full program and grab your ticket now@globalagilesummit.com I'm really looking forward to seeing you all in Tallinn, Estonia in May I'll see you there, Sa.