
Richard Brenner: When Individual Performance Metrics Block Agile Transformation Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: . Richard shares...
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Vasco
Have you ever wondered what it really.
Richard Brenner
Takes to make Agile work well? At the Global Agile Summit, we're bringing you real life first person stories of Agile succeeding out there in the real world that will inspire you to take action. Whether you're a leader, a product innovator, a developer, you'll hear practical insights from those who've done it. They'll be telling their own stories from the stage. I'll tell you more about this at the end of this episode. So stay back and listen to the full detailed description of what we have in store for you at the Global Agile Summit. But if you can't wait, you can go right now to globalagilesummit.com and check out our full schedule for now onto the episode. But I'll see you at the end of this episode with more details on the Global Agile Summit. Talk to you soon. Hello everybody.
Vasco
Welcome to our Wednesday the Leading Change episode. This week here on the Scrum Master.
Richard Brenner
Toolbox podcast with Richard Brenner.
Vasco
Hey Richard, welcome back.
Clinton Keith
Hi Vasco, good to be back.
Vasco
Absolutely. Richard, we're going to talk about change and nothing better than to actually go and talk about a real story of change.
Richard Brenner
So that's exactly what we want to hear. Richard, tell us the story, give us.
Vasco
The context, and then walk us through the steps of that change process from beginning to end. And as you go through it, highlight for us the tools, the tips, the tricks and the techniques you learned back.
Richard Brenner
Then that you still apply today.
Clinton Keith
Okay, thank you. I have. When I think about change, it's easy for me to think about one concrete example which had a lot of learnings for me, which. So basically how do we start? I was part of a coaching team in a bigger organization and we were assigned to setups that try to introduce Agile methods to become better. And that setup, the management came to the coaching team and said, look, we want to try this, let's have a conversation, let's start. So this was the first good thing. It was a poor principle. They came, they wanted. So I got there and there was two managers from business and one from it and they wanted to create a joint Azure setup to improve their business process. And so we sketched basically a potential team setup where we said we want cross functional teams, how could they look like, what areas should they cover? And so on. Back then I already suggested let's not put the people in there, let's do a self selection workshop and lets the people find themselves in their teams based on constraints and the things that the teams should do. So that was all good. I had a very good feeling. And then there was the kickoff day where I think about 40 people sat there and the management presented. And I also was really enthusiastic because I thought yeah, that's a good approach. Very people are involved. And there was a lot of resistance suddenly coming from. I didn't understand why and where this resistance is coming from. But we basically we did that self selection, it went through, we. And we started with those four teams and I was also coaching those teams how to start, how to daily standups and plannings, user story writing, refinements and so on. Sorry. And that was the first, the first start with that setup, let's say.
Vasco
But you talked about resistance before, before we go any further, like so there was this resistance. You were not sure where it was coming from or what was it all about. It was surprising as you described it. And then you started working with these teams. Right. Like a certain number of teams. Did you feel the same resistance within the teams or was it something that was coming from outside the teams that you were directly support?
Clinton Keith
It came from a certain line manager and his people and they were spread across multiple teams. And I also dig a bit deeper than why is there such a resistance? And one thing that I found out was that the performance management system was incentivizing individual performance. So there are bonuses. And this was especially one area here. The bonuses were based on the individual performance. So they feared that if they are part of a team which is not high performing or which is like somehow reducing their perceived individual performance because they are not part of that bad team, let's say, that could have a direct impact on their bonus.
Richard Brenner
Which actually highlights.
Vasco
The importance of having these bonuses systems align with the change that we are trying to bring in. Right. Because in this case I think it's a very valid question. If the bonuses are individual and then my team is not good, but I'm really good, then isn't that bad for me. Of course that question gets asked already is quite telling about the culture in the organization.
Clinton Keith
Yeah. And the good thing in that particular example was that we figured out what the problem was. And this setup then also kickstarted a pilot for a new performance management system. So we also started from that point a conversation with HR and the management. How can we make sure that we incentivize teamwork and incentivize teams and also the product success. It was ultimately we want to have a successful product and a successful team. And of course there are individual parts as well. But it doesn't make sense if you Have a high performing tester if the rest of the team isn't producing the software, let's put it like that. So we started this conversation and it changed then from that point on they really stick to it and change the whole performance management system later on. And that was a huge step for me to see, okay, there's something triggered from that change that changes even the whole organization and the thinking process about performance. So that was good. What happened then was that in the retrospectives of the teams there was often the feedback the teams are not working. We had so many interdependencies between the teams and people could not hold the plan so they were never really finishing the plan. So they said that the method we are using and also the team structure is not really working. And okay, we had our weekly meetings with the management there and we discussed those topics all the time. We said, yeah, let's give it some time because you know, this storming phase performing. So it might take some time. But what I did then was also have a retrospective with all the people after three months. And for me that's a crucial step because then we discussed what is going well, what is not going well in the teams and also in the whole setup. It was called, this was a retrospective.
Vasco
With everybody, like all the teams, management.
Clinton Keith
Teams and management and that for me the learning is, I will come to the learning. But that was already a good step that everybody was there. And we came up again with one point was the team structure is not working. And for me the interesting part was then and the good part. How did management react to that? Because I think that changed a lot in the acceptance of this change because they said, good, we came up with the first setup, but now we give this to you. So let's form a group of, let's say a small team with a good mixture of people from the whole setup. And you get the task to come up with a better working setup of teams. And you can also decide on the method you are using, like Scrum, Kanban or whatever. But we have this and that goals and you need to make sure that this works still. So the good thing was A, we had goals, B, management listened to this and they reacted by giving the responsibility really to the teams to come up with a solution. And I was so to say that the product owner of that team that came up with the solution because I said, look, I want to be part of it because they might not have the skills to decide on Kanban or Scrum because usually what I learned is that people like Kanban because they think we have less meetings and less change to Kanban is easier. That just wanted to avoid this and I didn't want to decide ultimately, but I wanted to bring in that discussions and yeah, they came up with a solution. They decided that Scrum is still the way to go for them, not Kanban. And from that point on I think there was a very big acceptance, even the biggest critics. One of the Scrum master said to one guy, look, you need to be part of it because you are criticizing the whole setup from the beginning. If you're not taking part of this now, you need to shut up later. So he was very direct, either participate.
Richard Brenner
Or then just accept.
Vasco
Indeed.
Clinton Keith
Exactly. Exactly. And he did participate and he was then one of the biggest promoters of that whole setup.
Vasco
That is also an insight that I have shared in my experience that sometimes the biggest critics, when they are involved and they are part of the process, they become the biggest promoters of the change.
Clinton Keith
Exactly what I've experienced. Yes.
Vasco
Yeah. It's an interesting pattern, isn't it?
Clinton Keith
Yeah. I'm always curious about people. Usually when you get to into new setup or new team, someone is warning you, look, there is this guy or this person here, this girl here. They are always difficult and I'm always looking forward to talking to them because usually they have a lot to say and to contribute. Exactly, Absolutely.
Richard Brenner
That's a great story. Thank you for all of those details. A lot of tips here.
Vasco
Thank you for sharing that, Richard.
Clinton Keith
You're welcome.
Richard Brenner
Hey friend, thank you for staying here. Is all you need to know about the Global Agile Summit. If you've ever suffered or know people who are suffering from Agile fatigue, this event is for you. Agile fatigue is that feeling that settles in when we can't really see a light at the end of the tunnel. We get discouraged. Especially when conversations revolve around the same old frameworks, the same old buzzwords and theories. We don't feel that energy anymore. Well, the Global Agile Summit is a different kind of event. We're bringing you real life first person stories of agile succeeding out there in the real world that will inspire you to take action and transform the way you work. The Global Agile Summit will happen In Tallinn, Estonia, May 18th. That's the workshop day. Then 19th and 20th the conference day. And Tallinn, Estonia is one of the most innovative tech hubs in Europe. The Global Agile Summit is hosted together with Latitude 59, which is kind of a citywide celebration of software startups and groundbreaking ideas. And we'll have a shared ticket for you to attend those events as well. So who will be speaking? Well, we've got an incredible lineup of thought leaders in software and agile. For example, Clinton Keith, the person who wrote literally wrote the book on game development with Scrum and is busy bringing Agile to the world of game development. You must check his session. The very famous and well known Jurgen Apello, author of Management 3.0, will be talking and exploring about AI's impact on leadership. We also have Goiko Adsic, who's taking an unconventional look at the product growth with his Lizard Optimization keynote. Other speakers include, for example Sven Dietz, whose Challenging adv everything we know about software development by ditching, literally ditching contracts and estimates. Can you imagine his teams deliver software before their competitors are even done with the contract negotiation? How agile is that? But there's more. We'll cover engineering practices in our developer track with talks on, for example AI assisted test driven development, developing products in minutes with a different approach to how we develop, configure, deploy platforms, and much more. We also have a product track where we cover cutting edge ideas around product discovery, delighting customers with product delight frameworks. We'll have a talk about that. And we also have an Agile Business track where we will talk about, for example Open strategy, a very agile approach to managing organizations and delivering software faster to clients faster than you can even write a contract. Literally. I mean, I already told you about Svendit's story is amazing. It definitely is a must see. I'm sure you'll be inspired and get a lot of ideas for your own software projects and software delivery. Now, whether you're a business leader, a product innovator or a developer, you'll definitely find value in our three focused tracks. That's Agile Business for those working with businesses and organizations Agile Product for product managers, product owners and innovators and Agile developer for this the builders making Agile work in practice, the coders, the testers, the designers, the producers, the Scrum masters, you name it. If you join, you will meet over 200 agile professionals from all over the world. People who just like you, want to grow, want to share and want to learn by challenging the ideas that don't work anymore. At the Global Agile Summit, you'll get new connections, fresh ideas and the energy to take your own Agile to the next level. And who knows, maybe even find your next career opportunity. So don't miss out. Check out the full program and grab your ticket now@globalagilesummit.com I'm really looking forward to seeing you all in Tallinn, Estonia in May I'll see you there, Sa.
Podcast: Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches
Host: Vasco Duarte, Agile Coach, Certified Scrum Master, Certified Product Owner
Guest: Clinton Keith
Release Date: April 16, 2025
Episode Title: When Individual Performance Metrics Block Agile Transformation
Duration: Approximately 12 minutes
In this insightful episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte engages in a deep conversation with guest Clinton Keith about the challenges and solutions encountered when individual performance metrics hinder Agile transformation within an organization. The discussion delves into real-world experiences, offering valuable lessons for Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches navigating similar transformations.
Clinton Keith begins by sharing his experience as part of a coaching team assigned to implement Agile methodologies in a large organization. The management's initial enthusiasm led to the formation of cross-functional teams through a self-selection workshop, aiming to foster collaboration and improve business processes.
Clinton Keith [01:41]: "I suggested a self-selection workshop so that the team members could find themselves in teams based on constraints and the tasks the teams should undertake."
Despite a promising start, Clinton encountered unexpected resistance. The primary obstacle stemmed from the organization's performance management system, which emphasized individual performance metrics tied to bonuses. This system created apprehension among employees about the potential impact of team performance on their personal rewards.
Clinton Keith [05:56]: "The performance management system was incentivizing individual performance. They feared that being part of a team that wasn’t high performing could negatively impact their bonuses."
Vasco highlights the critical nature of aligning incentive systems with desired organizational changes:
Vasco Duarte [05:55]: "This highlights the importance of having these bonus systems align with the change that we are trying to bring in."
Recognizing the root cause, Clinton spearheaded a pilot program to overhaul the performance management system. Collaborating with HR and management, the focus shifted to rewarding teamwork and product success alongside individual contributions. This holistic approach aimed to ensure that team achievements were celebrated without neglecting individual excellence.
Clinton Keith [06:22]: "We started a conversation with HR and management on how to incentivize teamwork and product success, ultimately leading to a revised performance management system."
As the teams began adopting Agile practices, they faced challenges related to interdependencies and unmet sprint plans. Persistent feedback during retrospectives indicated that the existing team structures were ineffective. In response, a comprehensive retrospective involving all teams and management was conducted after three months to assess progress and identify areas for improvement.
Clinton Keith [07:30]: "We had a retrospective with all teams and management to discuss what was working and what wasn’t in the setup."
This collective reflection led to a strategic shift: management empowered a selected group to redesign the team structures and choose appropriate Agile methodologies, considering options like Scrum and Kanban.
Clinton Keith [09:45]: "Management gave the responsibility to the teams to come up with a better working setup, allowing them to decide on the methodology that best suited their needs."
A pivotal moment in the transformation process was the involvement of initially skeptical team members. By including prominent critics in the redesign efforts, Clinton observed a significant shift in their attitudes. These individuals transitioned from opposition to active advocacy for the new Agile setup.
Clinton Keith [11:29]: "One of the Scrum Masters told a critic to either participate in the change process or step aside, resulting in the critic becoming a major promoter of the new setup."
Vasco echoes this observation, emphasizing the common pattern where critics become proponents when given ownership of the change process.
Vasco Duarte [11:32]: "Sometimes the biggest critics, when they are involved and part of the process, become the biggest promoters of the change."
The transformation led to a more cohesive and high-performing Agile environment. By aligning performance incentives with team success and actively involving all stakeholders in the change process, the organization overcame initial resistance and achieved sustainable Agile adoption. Clinton highlights the broader impact of these changes on organizational culture and performance management.
Clinton Keith [07:00]: "Changing the performance management system was a huge step that altered the entire organization's approach to performance and teamwork."
This episode underscores the critical interplay between performance metrics and Agile transformation. By addressing the underlying incentive structures and fostering inclusive participation in change initiatives, organizations can mitigate resistance and enhance the effectiveness of Agile practices. Clinton Keith’s experience serves as a valuable case study for Agile professionals aiming to navigate and lead successful transformations.
Notable Quotes:
"The performance management system was incentivizing individual performance. They feared that being part of a team that wasn’t high performing could negatively impact their bonuses." — Clinton Keith [05:56]
"We started a conversation with HR and management on how to incentivize teamwork and product success, ultimately leading to a revised performance management system." — Clinton Keith [06:22]
"Sometimes the biggest critics, when they are involved and part of the process, become the biggest promoters of the change." — Vasco Duarte [11:32]
This episode offers actionable insights for Agile practitioners facing challenges related to performance metrics and team dynamics. By highlighting the importance of aligning incentives with Agile principles and involving all team members in the transformation process, Vasco Duarte and Clinton Keith provide a roadmap for effective and sustainable Agile adoption.