When Management Writes a Book — AI, Strict Process, and the Missing Court System | Alf Dobbert-Baums

Summary

Podcast Summary: When Management Writes a Book — AI, Strict Process, and the Missing Court System

Podcast: Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast
Host: Vasco Duarte
Guest: Alf Dobbert-Baums
Date: July 22, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Vasco Duarte welcomes Alf Dobbert-Baums for the "big coaching question of the week." The conversation centers on the challenges posed when management tries to implement AI-driven processes through rigid, universally applied rules—what Alf calls "writing a book" for everyone to follow. They explore cultural dimensions (particularly within German organizations), the confusion strict processes create, the absence of a "court system" to interpret company laws, and strategies for team empowerment and productive feedback.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Challenge: AI and Process Strictness

• Topic Introduction: Alf highlights AI adoption in development is positive (01:46), but management’s attempt to standardize processes for product management—down to the tools and workflow columns in JIRA—poses a new challenge.
  • “Management... writes a book and says, okay, this is how we develop... all need to have the same JIRA boards and with all the same columns in JIRA. And this is how we work.” — Alf (03:34)

2. Cultural Context: German Obsession with Process

• Vasco jokes about the German inclination towards stricter processes (02:29–02:42), setting the stage for a deeper discussion about the cultural role of rules and agreements in German businesses.
  • “Isn't the answer always stricter processes in Germany, no matter what the problem might be?” — Vasco (02:35)
• Alf explains that even in this context, the new "book of rules" is stricter than usual and breeds confusion because of mixed signals about its flexibility (03:34–05:12).

3. Ambiguity and Lack of Interpretation Mechanism

• Vasco draws a parallel to legal systems: Just as laws need courts for interpretation, company rules also need clear interpretation processes (05:12).
  • “Has management considered what is the equivalent to a court system that they need to build in order to support the existence of the book...?” — Vasco (05:12)
• Alf confirms the lack of such a mechanism, creating uncertainty and ambiguity among employees (06:31): “On the one hand it's written very strict, but on the other hand it is not very strictly... applied or... you have flexibility... this lays a burden on the employees... do I need to have it strict or can I have it loose?” — Alf (06:31)

4. Absence of Clear Goals or Positive Framing

• Vasco asks whether management has articulated what a successful adoption of the process would look like (07:13–08:43).
• Alf notes goals have not been clearly defined; PowerPoints focus on eliminating negatives rather than achieving positives:
  • “Why don't you do it as a goal and formulate it in a positive way? So if you say we have too many meetings, why don't you say we want to reduce our meetings?” — Alf (07:58)

5. Team Responses: Experimentation and Psychological Safety

• With unclear guidance, teams are left to test the boundaries of the rules, leading to psychological discomfort (10:02).
  • “What they are now doing is kind of like experiment. How far can they bend those rules? But they are always unsure... psychological safety, basically, because they don't know, is this still acceptable or... will I get punished for it?” — Alf (10:02)
• Alf’s own team resorts to "common sense" as the guiding principle, bending rules when necessary and trying to justify exceptions rationally (10:58).

6. Feedback Loops: Struggle to Be Heard

• Vasco recommends systematically collecting and structuring feedback—instances where rules are impractical—then sending this back to management for clarity and improvement (11:41).
• Alf shares that despite these efforts, teams often feel ignored, lacking an effective channel to communicate feedback back up the hierarchy (12:25).

7. Advice for Teams in Similar Situations

• Vasco poses a hypothetical: What advice for other teams feeling stuck in this way?
• Alf reflects and suggests:
  • Gather as many people as possible for collective feedback (“the more you are, the better”).
  • Structure feedback, framing “negative” rules as positive goals, then map mismatched rules to those goals for clarity.
  • “If the rule says we want to have less meetings, switch the goal and say something positive. We want to have meaningful meetings. And if one rule just doesn't make sense in that goal... then match it, basically.” — Alf (13:16)
• Vasco highlights that Alf just demonstrated a key benefit of coaching: reframing problems to enable more productive conversations (14:24).
  • “That's the power of coaching... let's turn it into a positive and more specifically into a goal. It's the... don't have so many meetings is kind of a rule, but have more meaningful meetings is the goal.” — Vasco (14:24)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “Management... writes a book and says, okay, this is how we develop... all need to have the same JIRA boards and with all the same columns in JIRA. And this is how we work.” — Alf (03:34)
• “Has management considered what is the equivalent to a court system that they need to build in order to support the existence of the book...?” — Vasco (05:12)
• “This lays a burden... do I need to have it strict or can I have it loose?” — Alf (06:31)
• “What they are now doing is... experiment. How far can they bend those rules?... psychological safety... because they don't know, is this still acceptable or... will I get punished for it?” — Alf (10:02)
• “That's the power of coaching... let's turn it into a positive and more specifically into a goal.” — Vasco (14:24)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:46 — Alf introduces the AI and process strictness challenge
• 03:34 — Description of the “book of rules” and its implications
• 05:12 — Legal analogy and the missing “court system” for rule interpretation
• 07:58 — Lack of positively framed goals
• 10:02 — Psychological safety and rule-bending uncertainties
• 10:58 — Team coping strategies: common sense and bending the rules
• 12:25 — Struggles with giving feedback to management
• 13:16 — Alf’s advice: band together, reframe rules as positive goals
• 14:24 — Coaching in practice: reframing for productive feedback

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Takeaways

• Organizations imposing rigid, one-size-fits-all processes in the name of AI adoption can breed confusion unless mechanisms for interpretation and feedback exist.
• Clear goals, stated positively, empower teams to adapt rules in service of outcomes—not just compliance.
• Psychological safety is threatened when the application of rules is ambiguous and feedback goes unheard.
• Collective, structured feedback and positive goal framing are practical strategies teams can adopt when faced with inflexible management edicts.

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For listeners:
This episode offers practical insights and strategies for Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches facing rigid management processes, especially in culturally process-driven environments. The lively exchange between Vasco and Alf illustrates how coaching and reframing problems can uncover pathways to constructive change—even in the face of organizational inertia.

Transcript

[A]

Hey there, agile adventurer, just a quick question. What if for the price of a fancy coffee or half a pizza, you could unlock over 700 hours of the best agile content on the planet? That's audio, video, E courses, books, presentations, all that you can think of. But you can also join live calls with world class practitioners and hang out in a flame warfree and AI slop clean slack with the sharpest minds in the game. Oh, and yes, you get direct access to me, Vasko, your Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. No, this is not a drill. It's the Scrum Master Toolbox membership. And it's your unfair advantage in the agile world. So if you want to know more, go check out scrummastertoolbox.org membership, that's scrummastertoolbox.org Membership. And check out all the goodies we have for you. Do it now. But if you're not doing it now, let's listen to the podcast. Hello everybody. Welcome to our Wednesday the big coaching question of the week. This week we have with us Alf Dobert Baums. Hey Alf, welcome back.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

So let's talk about challenges and coaching. Through those challenges we of course as Scrum Masters help many others through this process of coaching and that's what we hope to also model here on this episode. And for that we start with a topic that you have in mind. Al. So what is the challenge you bring us this week?

[B]

I have the challenge. Currently the big challenge is of course AI and process strictness. And yeah, it's basically, I think AI and the developers, they are on good terms, so to say. I think they have included AI pretty good. But now management wants to do the whole product management thingy with AI and that means that they need to, that they want to implement some stricter processes. And yeah, this is.

[A]

What a surprise. Where do you live again? Oh, Germany, of course.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Isn't the answer always stricter processes in Germany, no matter what the problem might be?

[B]

Yes, definitely. Yeah. So, so let's, let's.

[A]

Okay, tell me a little bit more about this. So I lived in Germany. I know how important processes and agreements, very often detailed written agreements are for people working in that culture. At least they were where I worked in Germany, in South Germany. When you say stricter process in the context of a German company, for me it sounds a little bit like repetition because I would expect German companies to already have stricter processes than anywhere else in the world. So help me understand, for those who are not from Germany and do not understand the level of importance of Those written agreements in the culture, what does that, in that context, what does stricter process mean?

[B]

Well, it means that the management, so to say, writes a book and says, okay, this is how we develop. And it doesn't matter which product, we have a couple of products, products in our company, it doesn't matter which product. They need to all do the same thing, all need to have the same quality gates and even, well, that would be good, but also need to have the same JIRA boards and have all the same JIRA boards and with all the same columns in jira. And this is how we work. So basically that's very strict. And the thing is that they write a book, as I mentioned, they write a book about how we work. And it sounds sometimes very strict, but on the other hand they sometimes then say, okay, yes, but it's not meant to be so strict. You have flexibility and you can do it a little bit like you want to. And I think this creates some confusion with the teams, so they don't really know, okay, do I need to follow these rules or are they at my goodwill or not? And so this is basically a very big challenge that we have right now within actually our whole company.

[A]

When I hear you say management writes a book that they expect others to follow, I immediately get reminded of the legal system, which in all countries and definitely in Germany, is extremely complex and hard to understand. It's also hard to imagine a system that has had more human investment in terms of time and amount of people, as well as more scrutiny than a legal system in any country. So we know for a fact that legal systems have a huge amount of social effort to be developed and they are still constantly challenged. In fact, there is one little known system we've developed, it's called the court system, to try to figure out what we actually meant with the laws we wrote ourselves, which is ironic, but also very true and very human. So let me ask this without any sarcasm, but has management considered what is the equivalent to a court system that they need to build in order to support the existence of the book that they have already written? Like, is there an understanding that even written rules have many possible interpretations in that system?

[B]

Well, that is a very good question and I'm not sure. I'm. I'm not certain. And as I mentioned, it is on the one hand it's written very strict, but on the other hand it is not very strictly so to say applied or it said, okay, it is written here very strict, but you don't need to follow it. And this is Kind of like this lays a burden basically on the employees because they suddenly don't, do I need to have it strict or can I have it loose?

[A]

And that leads me to the next question. Okay, so we hear, or I hear that there's no court system being developed, or in other words, there's no system of interpretation being created to support the use of the rules. Which means that as you said, the interpretation is delegated to the person executing the work, which might be the right thing to do. Depends where we go. Because then comes the next question. Has the people who wrote that list of rules, that book of rules, have they been clear in describing and defining the goals? In other words, what does success mean when we adopt this process that we defined?

[B]

Well, actually, no, they have not. I was actually when, when I saw the first, so to say PowerPoint, I mentioned, well, there are so many negative points here that you want to, that you want to get rid of. Why don't you do it as a goal and formulate it in a positive way? So if you say we have too many meetings, why don't you say we want to reduce our meetings? Because it's just a different, it's just a different haltung, which is kind of like a different mindset.

[A]

When I hear you say that, I'm thinking, okay, so we have a very extensive set of rules we must follow. I mean, you described it as a book, so certainly it's not very short number of rules. Like the Agile Manifesto was, which was 4 plus 12. Right? Like 4 values, 12 principles. So it's much more than that. And management expects implicitly, I guess that that brings some benefit. But I hear you say that the benefit hasn't yet been defined. Okay, so now we have. I have a problem in my mind, like if I'm asked to interpret a rule in society in general, I have thousands of years of ethical studies and writings to get inspiration from. I have my peers who can inspire me and inform me about what is ethical in a specific context. I have my business counterparts which will tell me what's acceptable or not in terms of conduct with them. But what does that team have in order to know implicitly, in this case, because there's no goal, there's only a very strict set of rules. How can the team try to assess what the intention was behind that strict set of rules?

[B]

Basically, that's the whole point. It's very confusing. They have very much confusion. And I think what they are now doing is kind of like experiment. How far can they bend those rules? But they are always unsure. And this is another very important thing, psychological safety, basically, because they don't know, is this still acceptable or is it already. Will I get punished for it? And this is a very. This is very, very unhealthy, I think.

[A]

So what conversations have you been able to have with the teams themselves to try to figure out how they are in practice, trying to interpret the rules that they have been given?

[B]

Well, we have a. We have a. In our. And my team, we have seen common sense. So we. We. We say we have common sense and we will follow common sense and we will use this common sense with applying those rules. And if they absolutely make no sense and we say, okay, how can we skip it? How can we say, okay, this is acceptable for us? And we can argue that it is right now not the best way, so to say. And we basically bend the rules. Yes.

[A]

So then that leads me to the next thing, because, of course, knowing that you're in Germany, I know that this may cause some stress to the people involved, bending the rules. I mean, have you considered starting. I mean, and I mean, not you personally, but you. The group. Have you as a group consider starting, collecting those specific and explicit feedbacks to provide to those who wrote the book? So management, I imagine, if not somebody that management hired to do so, so that they can translate. Okay, here are the specific situations. Here's the rule we tried to apply and could not find a way to apply. Can you please help us figure this out? Have you tried to collect that? Have you been able to get conversations going around that type of feedback?

[B]

We have tried, yes, we have tried. But our feeling is, well, me and some fellow SCRUM masters, our feeling is that we are not heard. So that's basically not a very nice situation we are in right now. Because, yes, we have the feedback and we have collected it and we have it structured, basically, but we have no way to give feedback, basically.

[A]

So what would you say to a team out there, not your team, but some other team out there who is right now feeling that way, that we are facing this difficulty of applying the rules we are told to follow, and when we try to give feedback, we are not heard. What would you tell them?

[B]

That is a very different difficult question because I'm right now in the same situation, actually. I would say band together, get some. The more you are, basically, the better it is, I think, and write it down with structure. And what I would. Now I have the idea. What I would probably do is kind of like when I mentioned the negative goals or what you want to get rid of, do it positively and then match it to the things that you want to give feedback on. So basically, if the rule says we want to have less meetings, switch the goal and say something positive. We have. We want to have meaningful meetings. And if one rule just doesn't make sense in that goal, to have a positive and meaningful meeting, then match it, basically. So thank you very much. Thank you very much for the idea.

[A]

Actually, you came up with it. I did not come up with this idea. And that's the power of coaching. I came up with the questions, but I wanted to highlight this process that you just went through, which is to figure out, okay, how can we talk about feedback even when we are told we are not supposed to give feedback? And. And you came up with the idea, hey, let's turn it into a positive and more specifically into a goal. Right? It's the don't have so many meetings is kind of a rule, but have more meaningful meetings is the goal. It doesn't tell you how many you should have. That's up to you. But it clearly says which ones you should strive to have and which ones you should not strive to have. Right. Meaningless meetings. Let's not have those meaningful meetings. Let's have those. And I think that that's a great way to frame feedback as well. So thank you for sharing that.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

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