When Nobody Expects the Scrum Master, Overcoming a Rocky Start in a Team New to Agile | Marina Lazovic

Summary

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile Storytelling from the Trenches
Episode: When Nobody Expects the Scrum Master, Overcoming a Rocky Start in a Team New to Agile | Marina Lazovic
Host: Vasco Duarte
Guest: Marina Lazovic, Scrum Master and Kanban Trainer from Belgrade, Serbia
Release Date: March 24, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte welcomes Marina Lazovic, a seasoned Scrum Master and Kanban trainer from Belgrade, Serbia. With nearly a decade of experience in the IT industry, Marina shares her journey from a non-technical background to becoming an effective Agile practitioner. This episode delves deep into Marina’s challenges, particularly her rocky start in a team new to Agile, and the invaluable lessons she learned along the way.

Marina’s Journey to Scrum Mastery

Marina begins by outlining her unconventional path into the tech and Agile world. Despite lacking a formal education in technology, she transitioned from a long-term career in marketing to the dynamic field of digital marketing and content management. Her role at a small digital agency, where she coordinated projects and managed content, sparked her interest in improving team processes and efficiency.

Marina Lazovic [01:56]: "I started not really by chance, but I worked in marketing for a long time in a large corporation and at some point got really tired of that big machinery and started looking for different opportunities..."

Recognizing the inefficiencies of traditional project management in the fast-paced software industry, Marina sought out Agile methodologies. Her self-driven approach led her to extensive learning through classes, trainings, and certifications, culminating in her becoming a certified Scrum Master in 2018.

The Rocky Start: First Scrum Master Role

Marina recounts her first dedicated Scrum Master role, which turned out to be a formidable challenge. Joining a company entirely new to Agile, she found herself as the first Scrum Master without any prior preparation or understanding from the team and management.

Marina Lazovic [07:22]: "They never briefed me or prepared them for what's coming and what's the role. So when I joined, the team and developers were very confused like, okay, who are you? What are you doing?"

The lack of clarity led to significant confusion. Teams expected her to perform traditional daily stand-ups without understanding her role as a facilitator and coach. This misalignment created a "perfect storm," leaving Marina to build Agile processes from scratch amidst resistance and misunderstanding.

Marina Lazovic [07:22]: "It was a disaster, a perfect storm... I was in a constant battle, me against everyone else, trying to prove myself."

Navigating Challenges and Building Trust

Facing these obstacles, Marina had to earn the trust of her team and demonstrate the value of Agile practices. She emphasizes the importance of patience, calmness, and not taking resistance personally. Her approach involved being transparent about her own challenges and remaining open to questions, fostering an environment where the team could gradually embrace Agile principles.

Marina Lazovic [09:57]: "Patience and, you know, cool, calm. Take it calmly. Don't think things personally."

Marina also highlights the common human tendency to resist change, especially when it feels imposed. By understanding this, she was able to navigate the team's defensiveness and work towards gradual acceptance of Agile methodologies.

Marina Lazovic [11:15]: "When people are faced with unknowns, they are often also defensive... changes are very hard."

Lessons Learned and Advice for Aspiring Scrum Masters

Reflecting on her experience, Marina offers several key pieces of advice for new Scrum Masters facing similar challenges:

1. Embrace Patience: Change takes time, and patience is crucial when introducing new methodologies.

   Marina Lazovic [09:57]: "Patience and, you know, cool, calm."

2. Maintain Composure: Staying calm and not taking resistance personally helps in maintaining professional relationships and focus.

   Marina Lazovic [09:57]: "Don't think things personally. Just keep cool and calm."

3. Be Transparent: Openly sharing your feelings and challenges can build trust and empathy within the team.

   Marina Lazovic [11:15]: "Be open and transparent about how you are feeling."

4. Foster Open Communication: Encouraging team members to ask questions and express concerns facilitates smoother transitions to Agile practices.

   Marina Lazovic [12:15]: "Let them ask all the questions."

Marina underscores the importance of understanding the team's perspective and moving at a pace that accommodates their comfort level with change.

Conclusion

Marina Lazovic’s story is a testament to the resilience and adaptability required to succeed as a Scrum Master, especially in environments unaccustomed to Agile methodologies. Her experiences highlight the critical role of patience, communication, and empathy in overcoming initial resistance and fostering a collaborative, efficient team dynamic.

For Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches navigating similar challenges, Marina’s insights provide a roadmap for building trust, introducing change thoughtfully, and maintaining personal well-being amidst professional trials.

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Notable Quotes:

• “Don't take things personally. Just keep cool and calm.” — Marina Lazovic [09:57]
• “When people are faced with unknowns, they are often also defensive.” — Marina Lazovic [11:15]

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This episode serves as an inspiring resource for Agile practitioners seeking to enhance their craft and effectively lead teams through the complexities of Agile transformation.

Transcript

[Oscar]

Have you ever wondered what it really takes to make Agile work well? At the Global Agile Summit, we're bringing you real life first person stories of Agile succeeding out there in the real world that will inspire you to take action. Whether you're a leader, a product innovator, a developer, you'll hear practical insights from those who've done it. They'll be telling their own stories from the stage. I'll tell you more about this at the end of this episode. So stay back and listen to the full detailed description of what we have in store for you at the Global Agile Summit. But if you can't wait, you can go right now to globalagilesummit.com and check out our full schedule for now onto the episode. But I'll see you at the end of this episode with more details on the Global Agile Summit. Talk to you soon. Hello everybody. Welcome to one more week of the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. And this week, joining us from Serbia is Marina Lazovic. Hey Marina, welcome to the show. Hi.

[Marina Lazovic]

Hi Oscar, welcome. Thank you for having me here and thanks for the nice welcome.

[Oscar]

Absolutely. And it's a great pleasure to have you here. So for all of you to know a little bit about Marina. She's a Scrum Master and Kanban trainer from Belgrade in Serbia. With nearly a decade in the IT industry, though not from a technical background, she is passionate about helping development teams and organizations improve their processes, build great products using Agile. She thrives on driving efficiency and fostering collaboration. So Marina, that was a short intro. Tell us a little bit more about yourself and how did you end up becoming a Scrum Master?

[Marina Lazovic]

Yeah, well, it's a long story with this long and steep learning curve I started with, like you mentioned, I don't have an education in tech and I started not really by chance, but I worked in a for a long time in marketing in a large corporation and at some point got really tired of that big machinery and started looking for some different opportunities and how to transition to something that was maybe more interesting and more suitable for me. So I went through digital marketing, content creation, social media, content management, websites and all of that and somehow ended up in a small digital agency that was building small websites for small businesses all over the world with a bunch of developers, designers, a long list of small clients, very hectic process. I started there like coordination, doing some content management, coordinating with clients, and somehow slowly transitioned to a kind of project management role that wasn't really maybe structured process wise or clearly defined. It was all new to me. I was really learning what can be done there and how to make it work. But that's my maybe first steps in tech that were very small. But very quickly I moved on or decided to move on to a slightly larger company which the processes were a little more structured and where I could maybe learn more. So again there I was a project manager but with a lot of more freedom to introduce different ways of working with teams. So I really quickly realized that traditional way of managing software was very difficult. There were so many unknowns, there were so many complex things to keep in mind with the deliveries and deadlines and unknown stuff and so on. And I was starting to look for ways of how we could do it better. And that's where I discovered Agile and started really, really deeply learning about that to million of different classes, learning materials, you know, trainings, books and really started learning on my own. And then I got certified, then I Scrum. Org and other organizations I discovered all of that and I got somewhere, I think around 2018, certified as a scrum Master and really started to implement that in my, in my daily. I had the freedom to, you know, develop all those processes myself. I think that was a really a fortunate thing that I, that I had to start learning on my own and doing things on my own.

[Oscar]

It's a really interesting story of course because you come from a non tech background but you quite quickly realized what many techies take quite a while to realize, which is this is way too changing, way too dynamic to be managed with a predictive planning approach like project management. We need something else. And then you discovered Scrum and of course after that you start your Scrum Master career which isn't always easy. And today's Monday so we're going to talk about the Fail Monday story. Story of a moment that was really difficult. And of course we don't talk about it because it is difficult, but we talk about it because it is in those difficulties that we learn some of the most important lessons. And that's what we want you to share with us today Marina. So walk us through that story.

[Marina Lazovic]

Well yeah, that's a continuation of this story. So at some point I wanted to focus slowly on a Scrum Master role and Agile coaching or move completely away from project management and communication with clients requirements and that kind of stuff. So I was looking for my first just Scrum Master role and that's my big difficulty, my big, well, I don't know, I want to say failure because I learned a lot from there and used that knowledge for my future roles in Other companies. But what happened there? So that was my first Scrum Master role as only the Scrum Master and the company was also completely new to Agile and I was the first ever Scrum Master to join that company. So everything was very. The first. So my first role as a focused Scrum Master and the first Scrum Master. So it was a, you know, a disaster, I can say, because a perfect storm. There was, yeah, complete storm because no one was really prepared for me. The teams were not prepared.

[Oscar]

Tell us a little bit more about that. How did it feel like what was happening that told you that the teams were not prepared, for example?

[Marina Lazovic]

Well, I joined the first day I had a brief meeting with some management. They told me, okay, now you're going to join this team and so on. So they have a daily at, I don't know, 10:00, 10:30, I think something like that was. And you're going to join the. Meet the team. And I joined teams or a team's call or Zoom, I don't remember. But the point was when I joined, no one really knew who I am. They were not briefed, they were not prepared. They never took any. They were doing some kind of a Scrum process, but it was like they did. They, they knew what were sprints and they had a project product coordinator, something that was really, really a product owner role. But they never heard us from us or none. Prepare them to what's coming and what's that role. So when I joined they were, the team and developers were very confused like, okay, who are, who are you? What, what are you doing? And they, they didn't know what to expect or they expected me to be what they start. They were doing daily, their daily Scrums in like or talking in an order, in a specific order, you know, in a circle. And then they came to me and the, and said, okay, your turn. So what did you do today? What's your update? So it was funny but scary at the same time because it took me really a long time to start from zero, to start from scratch, teaching, coaching, explaining what is my role. And I don't think the company or the management was even exactly sure what they wanted out of a Scrum Master because it was first time they were just having this idea, yeah, we want to hire Scrum Master because it's popular or all the other companies do it and we want to be agile or whatever. So it was very tough. I felt the whole time there like it was in a constant battle, me against everyone else, trying to prove myself, trying to justify why I'm there, what I'm doing, what's my role. It was a lot. It was very difficult.

[Oscar]

So when you think about that story, there's, you know, people out there listening to us that are maybe in the beginning of their SCRUM mask career, but at least joining a new team that maybe doesn't know Scrum very well. That's also something common. But what advice, what can you take from that experience to share with the world out there that is perhaps going through a similar situation as you did at that time?

[Marina Lazovic]

Oh, patience, patience and, you know, cool, calm. Take it calmly. Don't think things personally. For me, it was very difficult at the beginning not to take things personally and not to be, you know, sometimes feel very bad or sad or. Or either get defensive. So don't take things personally. Just keep cool and calm and, you know, don't think that someone has anything personal against you. Just people when they are faced with unknowns, they are often also defensive. So they try to keep, you know, changes are very hard. And this is something that I learned throughout the years. Every change and everything that's new for someone, that that happens, that is unexpected or that someone is seemed. Seems like it's imposed. People are then often scared of what's going to happen. They're afraid of the changes that are coming. They don't know are they going to be good or bad and how they will affect them. So they get defensive. So this is something at the beginning of my career I took very personally. You know, I got also angry and sometimes I couldn't really hold my feelings. I really, of course, tried not ever to get engaged in arguments or, you know, make big conflicts. But I ended a lot of times after work feeling very, very stressed and drained, I imagine. And drained. Yeah. And exhausted. Like having this constant battle trying, trying to explain myself. So my advice for anyone who's new and maybe facing this kind of situation, like, prepare yourself with a lot of patience and goodwill and know your stuff, you know, know what you want to show them and be very. Be very, like, I'm looking for the right word, open. Maybe just open and transparent about how you are feeling. Feeling, you know, saying, yeah, okay, that's very hard for me also. And be open to all kinds of questions. Be patient and let them ask all the questions and try to just not impose your role on people who are new to that.

[Oscar]

Like, absolutely, be patient, be present and be open because they are also going through the process. Not just.

[Marina Lazovic]

Exactly.

[Oscar]

Absolutely. Great story. Thank you for sharing that, Marina.

[Marina Lazovic]

Thanks.

[Oscar]

Hey friend, thank you for staying here is all you need to know about the Global Agile Summit if you've ever suffered or know people who are suffering from Agile fatigue, this event is for you. Agile fatigue is that feeling that settles in when we can't really see a light at the end of the tunnel. We get discouraged, especially when conversations revolve around the same old frameworks, the same old buzzwords and theories. We don't feel that energy anymore. Well, the Global Agile Summit is a different kind of event. We're bringing you real life first person stories of Agile succeeding out there in the real world that will inspire you to take action and transform the way you work. The Global Agile Summit will happen in Tallinn, Estonia May 18th. That's the workshop day. Then 19th and 20th the conference day and Tallinn, Estonia is one of the most innovative tech hubs in Europe. The Global Agile Summit is hosted together with Latitude 59, which is kind of a citywide celebration of software startups and groundbreaking ideas. And we'll have a shared ticket for you to attend those events as well. So who will be speaking? Well, we've got an incredible lineup of thought leaders in software and agile. For example, Clinton Keith, the person who wrote, literally wrote the book on game development with Scrum and is busy bringing Agile to the world of game development. You must check his session. The very famous and well known Jurgen Apelo, author of Management 3.0, will be talking and exploring about AI's impact on leadership. We also have Goiko Adsic, who's taking an unconventional look at product growth with his Lizard Optimization keynote. Other speakers include, for example Sven Dietz, who's challenging everything we know about software development by ditching, literally ditching contracts and estimates. Can you imagine his teams deliver software before their competitors are even done with a contract negotiation? How agile is that? But there's more. We'll cover engineering practices in our developer track with talks on for example AI assisted test driven development, developing products in minutes with a different approach to how we develop, configure, deploy platforms, and much more. We also have a product track where we cover cutting edge ideas around product discovery, delighting customers with product delight frameworks. We'll have a talk about that. And we also have an App Agile business track where we will talk about for example open strategy, a very agile approach to managing organizations and delivering software faster to clients faster than you can even write a contract. Literally. I mean, I already told you about Svendeet's story is amazing. It definitely is a must see. I'm sure you'll Be inspired and get a lot of ideas for your own software projects and software delivery. Now whether you're a business leader, a product innovator or a developer, you'll definitely find value in our three focused tracks. That's Agile Business for those working with businesses and organizations Agile Product for product managers, product owners and innovators and Agile Developer for the builders making Agile work in practice. The coders, the testers, the designers, the producers, the Scrum masters, you name it. If you join, you will meet over 200 agile professionals from all over the world, people who just like you, want to grow, want to share and want to learn by challenging the ideas that don't work anymore at the Global Agile Summit, you'll get new connections, fresh ideas and the energy to take your own Agile to the next level. And who knows, maybe even find your next career opportunity. So don't miss out. Check out the full program and grab your ticket [e-mail] I'm really looking forward to seeing you all in Tallinn, Estonia in May. I'll see you there. SA.