Episode Overview

Theme:
This episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast explores the evolving role of Product Owners in Agile teams, with a spotlight on the power of facilitation and co-creation over traditional notions of owning the product vision. Vasco Duarte interviews Alidad Hamidi, Agile coach and co-founder of Desirable Futures, about anti-patterns and success stories, drawing on real-world experience to highlight how Product Owners can better serve teams and outcomes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Product Owner Anti-Patterns

[01:56 - 06:28]

• Technical PO Trap:
  Alidad recounts early experiences with a technically-focused Product Owner new to the domain, who defaulted to working closely with the development team – often providing solutions and specifying implementation rather than connecting with stakeholders or understanding market needs.

  • Impact:

    • Led to the team delivering features that weren't needed or weren't used.
    • Created barriers between the team and stakeholders.
    • Product Owner neglected critical discovery and environmental sensing.

  • Quote:

    "...he did the opposite, just creating barriers after barriers between the team and the environment. And he wasn't also participating with, with our stakeholders and our customers. So that was one of the kind of really, really, it created really bad dynamics."
    — Alidad Hamidi, [04:34]

• Coaching Through Reflection:
  Rather than force advice on struggling Product Owners, Alidad recommends facilitating learning through lightweight failures and structured team-stakeholder interactions (e.g., Sprint Reviews, prioritization sessions). When Product Owners see firsthand that their direction doesn't meet stakeholder needs, it becomes a coaching moment.

  • Quote:

    "...people will only learn if they reflect on it and if they see. So I think number one is when there is a small failure, we will have a reflection on it and then start exploring. Look, here, here is a situation..."
    — Alidad Hamidi, [05:17]

2. Celebrating Great Product Owners: Facilitation Over Ownership

[07:13 - 10:47]

• Not Just the "Owner":
  The best Product Owner Alidad ever worked with wasn’t officially a Product Owner, but rather a project manager who naturally facilitated discovery and alignment.

  • Discovery in Practice:

    • Alidad introduces the idea of running an assumption mapping session when the project team lacked clarity about customer problems.
    • Instead of acting as a proxy, the project manager gathered the entire stakeholder community to surface and test assumptions directly.

  • Pivot Based on Learning:

    • The team avoided spending millions on a risky integration after realizing customers didn’t want the planned solution.
    • Shifted focus to simpler, more impactful solutions (e.g., educational modules).
    • This approach spread through the organization when the project manager championed discovery practices, transforming their product development culture.

  • Quote:

    "She didn't become a proxy. She didn't say, oh, okay, I'm going to go and find out, I'll come back to you. So all right, cool. Let's just [bring] everyone together..."
    — Alidad Hamidi, [08:15]

  • Notable Mindset:
    Alidad underscores a key paradigm:

    "...it's not the product owner that need to have [the vision]. The product owner can facilitate creation of that. And it's not just product owner or a team, it's the broader stakeholder and customer community that need to co create that."
    — Alidad Hamidi, [09:27]

3. The Product Owner Mindset

[10:47 - 11:09]

• Emphasis on openness to discovery, co-creation, and adaptability, rather than "ownership" of a solitary vision.
• Great Product Owners are catalysts who create space for learning and adaptation.
• Quote:

  "...the product owner is more than a role, it's also a mindset, right? Like it's this being open to discovering, it's accepting that we need to do that discovery and then reacting to it."
  — Vasco Duarte, [10:47]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 04:34 | Alidad | "...he did the opposite, just creating barriers after barriers between the team and the environment. And he wasn't also participating with, with our stakeholders and our customers. So that was one of the kind of really, really, it created really bad dynamics." | | 05:17 | Alidad | "...people will only learn if they reflect on it and if they see. So I think number one is when there is a small failure, we will have a reflection on it and then start exploring. Look, here, here is a situation..." | | 08:15 | Alidad | "She didn't become a proxy. She didn't say, oh, okay, I'm going to go and find out, I'll come back to you. So all right, cool. Let's just [bring] everyone together..." | | 09:27 | Alidad | "...it's not the product owner that need to have [the vision]. The product owner can facilitate creation of that. And it's not just product owner or a team, it's the broader stakeholder and customer community that need to co create that." | | 10:47 | Vasco | "...the product owner is more than a role, it's also a mindset, right? Like it's this being open to discovering, it's accepting that we need to do that discovery and then reacting to it." |

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:56 – 06:28: Product Owner anti-pattern, technical PO story, and learning through reflection
• 07:13 – 10:47: Great PO case study, facilitation and co-creation in discovery, organization-wide impact
• 10:47 – 11:09: The Product Owner mindset: discovery orientation and adaptability

Additional Resources & Guest Info

• Alidad Hamidi on LinkedIn: [ali amedi]
• Desirable Futures Group: ["We organize for self-managing teams at scale, human-centric org design"]

Takeaways

• Product owners are most effective as facilitators and connectors, not just decision-makers or requirement writers.
• The greatest value comes when the entire stakeholder community collaborates in defining product vision and priorities.
• Facilitation skills and a discovery-oriented mindset distinguish high-impact Product Owners.
• Structured reflection on real-world failures is a powerful lever for growth and transformation, for both individuals and organizations.

If you’re interested in organizational design for autonomy, self-management at scale, or how to integrate true discovery into your Agile practice, check out Alidad’s work at Desirable Futures.

This summary captures all significant insights and actionable advice from the episode—ideal for Scrum Masters and Agile practitioners seeking to deepen their understanding of the Product Owner role in modern Agile teams.