Podcast Summary: Why Agile Fatigue Means We Need to Change Our Approach

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast | Host: Vasco Duarte | Guest: Steve Martin

Episode Date: December 31, 2025

Episode Overview

In this coaching-focused episode, Vasco Duarte and Steve Martin discuss the growing sense of "agile fatigue" in the industry, exploring whether the current approaches to agile transformation are still fit for purpose. Together, they reflect on root causes—like the failure to “meet people where they are”—and consider whether it's time to rethink how agile practitioners support organizations. The conversation is candid, practical, and laden with personal reflections on the evolving landscape of agile.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Is Agile in Retreat? Reflecting on Industry Fatigue

• Steve Martin expresses concern over a perceived regression or stagnation in the agile space, describing a “fatigue” both he and his mentees have observed.
  • “Agile as a whole... I feel like we're on the back foot a little bit and have been perhaps regressing a little bit for a while. There seems to be a lot of fatigue in the industry.” (02:02)
• He suggests it’s time for agile professionals to critically reflect on whether their contributions have truly moved the industry forward.

2. Historical Context: The Inevitable Evolution of Software

• Vasco Duarte provides context, reminding listeners that the software industry has always moved through cycles of crisis and advancement.
  • He mentions the first software crisis at the Garmish conference, noting ongoing industry shifts and cautioning agilists not to shoulder undue blame for not changing everything at once.
  • “It's quite clear for me at least that Agile did have a very positive contribution to our industry. But... one single movement can't change the whole perspective of an entire population.” (04:36)
• He suggests that perhaps the agile community is being overly hard on itself when change is, in fact, incremental and collective.

3. Meeting People Where They Are vs. Dragging Them Along

• Vasco brings back a theme from a previous episode: the necessity of meeting teams and organizations "where they are" instead of demanding change on outsiders’ terms.
  • “Could the fatigue that we are all collectively experiencing be a little bit of hey, I've been preaching for so long and they're still not listening to me kind of reaction?” (08:14)
• Steve agrees and points out that transformation efforts often fail because there is insufficient understanding or empathy for what teams are changing from.
  • “We teach transformation... but we don't really understand what they're changing from.” (08:47)

4. The Trap of Forcing Change

• Vasco shares a personal tip: when joining a new team, he starts by asking where they want to go—not by prescribing solutions.
  • "Maybe we need to start stepping back from helping people that don't want to be helped... Why would we want to help teams that really just they wish to be left alone?" (10:00)
• He recounts real experiences with teams resistant to more frequent releases and advocates for focusing energy where there is real desire to change.

5. The Need to Adapt as Coaches and Practitioners

• Both speakers agree the classic “Big Bang” approach to agile transformation is no longer effective—if it ever truly was.
  • Steve: “The age of Big Bang transformation... should never have been a thing, but it's something that has become a big thing and... it hasn't been a great success.” (13:18)
• Instead, they advocate for smaller experiments, pilots, and “test and learn,” mirroring the agile mindset.
  • “Do it more of a... test and learn, being innovative, trying out small pilots and then scaling when ready.” (13:45)

6. Humility, Reflection, and Responsiveness

• The conversation closes with a powerful reminder that context is key and agile practitioners must continually reflect and adjust tactics accordingly.
  • “If we try to do something and it fails often, maybe it's time to get that as input, as information and kind of change direction.” (13:08)
  • Steve: “Organizations need to be working in a state of agility with, with, you know, rapid decision making with, you know, with aligned teams with value being delivered at pace... That hasn't gone away.” (06:32)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.” – Steve Martin (11:34)
• “Transformation used to work. Maybe now that’s not the vehicle. Maybe the vehicle is different and it might be different in every context.” – Vasco Duarte (12:24)
• “The age of Big Bang transformation... it hasn't been a great success... I think the age of that has gone.” – Steve Martin (13:18)
• “We need to adapt to the reality of the moment.” – Vasco Duarte (14:16)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:58 – Steve introduces the topic of industry-wide agile fatigue
• 03:11 – Vasco offers historical perspective and questions community-level expectations
• 05:56 – Steve reflects on the need for collective retrospection and relevance of agile
• 08:31 – Steve expands on the importance of truly understanding where teams are starting from
• 10:00 – Vasco advocates for not forcing change on unwilling teams
• 13:17 – Steve critiques the “Big Bang” transformation approach and recommends smaller pilots
• 14:16 – Final reflections on adapting to present contexts

Takeaway Messages

• Agile fatigue is real—practitioners must reflect honestly on industry progress and their own approaches.
• Empathy and contextual awareness are vital: successful change requires meeting people where they are.
• The era of mass, top-down transformations is over; small, context-driven experiments are preferable.
• Agile practitioners must continue to adapt and adjust—both their expectations and their methods—to avoid burnout and remain effective.
• Humility and learning are ongoing: Each context is unique, and practitioners should draw lessons from missteps as readily as from successes.

Tone: Candid, reflective, and empathetic; the speakers acknowledge both their frustrations and ongoing hope for agile’s evolution.