B (4:42)

I think it illustrates how important it is to have the right managers in our career and the influence that they can have. Definitely a great story now, talking about managers, or maybe not. Let's see how the story goes on Tuesdays. We also want to explore the story of a team and how sometimes teams create their own problems, Scott. And here we want to hear about what were maybe some behavior, some patterns, some interactions that maybe started small in the beginning, but eventually grew and became a problem for that team. So tell us that story, Scott.

C (5:20)

Yeah, I can recall one squad that I worked with and the product owner. They were new to the role and I think on this one occasion we're in a meeting with the team. Can't remember if it was Sprint Review or Sprint Planning or something, but the product owner was really short and sharp with their tone of voice and there was a bit of conflict between the product owner and the team.

B (5:58)

Conflict emerged. Like as you were observing it, what were the signs of that conflict?

C (6:03)

Well, the signs were there were raised voices on both sides and so the.

B (6:11)

Discussion ran high, clearly.

C (6:14)

That's right. Yeah, they did. They were heated. And as a facilitator in those sessions, I took the opportunity to jump in and, you know, say to the guys, listen up, we're on the same team here. We're looking to for the same outcomes. So let's take this back a step and let's quieten things down a bit and understand each other's perspectives and really come back to, you know, understanding. We're both on the same team. We're not trying to fight with each other for different things. So it was really helping that product owner who was a bit maybe keen to get things done in their way rather than working collaboratively with the team, bringing it back into perspective for them to ensure that they did it amicably and they had no sort of ongoing conflict or heated discussions. They really thanked me afterwards as well, actually, for stepping in and telling. Having. Having them take that break in that conversation, which really, I think hit hard for the product owner as they. He probably realized, you know, it was his attitude and behaviors that were probably not suitable at that point in time.

B (7:58)

So when you think about that, of course, the conflict kind of became obvious when people started shouting at each other, obviously, right? But it does take courage to step in. And of course, it takes a certain amount of, how do you say, preparation. Because it's not just about stepping in. It's about knowing what to do and how to follow up and what might be a step, Positive step forward rather than increasing the conflict and maybe getting embroiled in the conflict ourselves. So when you think about that kind of situation, when you're observing that conflict and then you want to step in, and then, you know, how do you prepare that? Like, what are the things in your mind as you start to step in and also as you present the way forward for the team and the P.O. in this case, you said that you asked them to take a break and have a conversation, but of course, that conversation also needs to be facilitated. So how do you prepare yourself for this kind of intervention?

C (8:55)

My approach to these types of conversations and interventions is really to think about the people involved. You know, there's people on both sides there, but there's obviously a difference in opinion, perspectives, and it's really about putting yourself in the shoes of the other. So I try to take the approach where, first of all, stop what's going on, ask for a break if needed, and, you know, speaking to individuals to have them, you know, back to a level playing field where they're comfortable going back into the conversation with the other party without the need for raised voices, heated sort of discussions, so that they can be working together collaboratively without any sort of ongoing undercurrents in the conversation.

B (10:07)

One of the things that when I think of this kind of situation, right, like you're bringing people together, even if it is a team and a PO in this case. So it's not just two people, it's like a group, right? You're bringing people together to talk about something difficult. The conflict is there because there's something difficult. Otherwise we would handle the conflict without conflict. One of the things that I often think about is to start from the perspective of helping each part describe what they are trying to achieve, not what they are trying to do, because that would be the task and that's where the conflict is right now, the task, but rather what they are trying to achieve. Like what would be success for them and asking it in that kind of positive thing. Because my intuition at least is that once we start looking at what does success mean, what's the outcome we're looking for, we start to see commonalities. Right? And that's where I start to where I try to start the conversation. How about you? When you go into this kind of situation, what is something that you bring in to help people come together despite the conflict?

C (11:17)

I think you're spot on there. And it is really about taking the people thing out of it and personalities out of it. It's really about focusing on what is the outcome that we're all trying to achieve here and focusing on that outcome as opposed to he said that or she said this. So really peeling it back to together, what is it we're trying to achieve and what is that outcome really takes the sort of heat out of any conflict that might have arisen and takes the focus back to the goals that people are trying to achieve.

B (11:57)

Yeah, absolutely. And the goals are really important. It's a great story. Thank you for sharing that with us. Scott.

A (12:07)

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