Episode Summary: "Can You Cure Picky Eating?"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Search Engine
• Host: PJ Vogt
• Episode Title: Can You Cure Picky Eating?
• Release Date: February 21, 2025
• Description: On this episode of Search Engine, PJ Vogt delves into the complex world of picky eating. Through personal stories, expert insights, and a hands-on experiment, the episode explores whether picky eating can be overcome.

1. Introduction to the Topic

The episode begins with PJ Vogt introducing the recurring guests from the podcast "No Such Thing"—Manny, Noah, and Devin. They engage in light-hearted banter before transitioning to the main topic: picky eating, specifically Manny's lifelong aversion to seafood.

Notable Quote:

• Manny [03:45]: "Today, I have a problem. And I'm grateful to be able to use this platform again to answer something so stupid."

2. Manny's Personal Experience

Manny shares his background, explaining that growing up Eritrean American, his family rarely consumed seafood unless from coastal regions. His aversion extends beyond taste to the very appearance and texture of seafood, which affects his social interactions and relationships.

Key Points:

• Lifelong aversion to seafood, particularly shrimp.
• Cultural background influenced his limited exposure to seafood.
• Social challenges when dining out with friends or partners who enjoy seafood.

Notable Quote:

• PJ Vogt [03:20]: "The Chicken Bone Squad was back here today because once again, they had a question for our show which they wanted to find the answer to."

3. Expert Insights: Interview with Dr. Mariah Zuckerberg

To gain a deeper understanding, PJ and the team interview Dr. Mariah Zuckerberg, a professor of psychiatry at Duke University and director of the Duke Center for Eating Disorders. Dr. Zucker discusses the psychological aspects of picky eating and whether it qualifies as a disorder.

Key Points:

• Disorder Definition: Picky eating is considered a disorder if it leads to significant impairment in social or occupational functioning.
• Disgust Factor: Disgust is an adaptive emotion designed to protect against pathogens, but in modern society, it can hinder social interactions.
• Therapeutic Approaches:
  • Forced Exposure: Repeatedly presenting the disliked food, although not always effective.
  • Positive Experiences: Involving individuals in food preparation and creating enjoyable associations with new foods.
  • Individualized Plans: Tailoring strategies based on personal preferences and tolerances.

Notable Quotes:

• Manny [05:00]: "My family ends up being a good example because although none of my siblings grew up eating fish, they all love fish."
• Dr. Zucker [14:52]: "Disgust is a really cool emotion... it's designed to protect us from getting contaminated from pathogens."

4. The Experiment: Steps to Cure Picky Eating

Determined to overcome his seafood aversion, Manny collaborates with Noah and Devin to design a three-step experiment aimed at gradually increasing his tolerance for fish.

a. Step One: Fried Fish Sandwich [26:27 - 28:00]

Manny starts with a spicy fried fish sandwich from a local seafood restaurant. The goal is to mask the fishiness with familiar flavors and textures.

Experience:

• Initial bites resemble a fried chicken sandwich, making it easier to consume.
• Partial tasting of fish leads to mild discomfort but doesn't trigger a full disgust reaction.
• Manny [27:59]: "The first bite is great because there's no fish in it."

Outcome:

• Successful in reducing immediate aversion.
• Paved the way for more challenging steps.

b. Step Two: Home-Cooked Roasted Salmon [29:58 - 32:44]

Next, Manny participates in preparing a roasted salmon dish glazed with brown sugar and mustard, designed to enhance sweetness and mask the fish flavor.

Experience:

• Enjoys the savory glaze, making the salmon more palatable.
• Begins to understand the appeal of well-prepared fish dishes.
• Manny [32:04]: "This tastes good. I don't want to say that it doesn't taste good. It's more of the mental factor of trying to get past what it is."

Outcome:

• Significant improvement in tolerance.
• Opens up possibilities for exploring different fish preparations.

c. Step Three: Dining at Swoonies Seafood Restaurant [33:56 - 37:56]

The final step involves dining out at Swoonies in Brooklyn, where Manny tries more authentic and varied seafood dishes, including tuna crudo and dorade.

Experience:

• Tuna Crudo: Initially skeptical but appreciates the buttery bread accompaniment, which diminishes the direct taste of tuna.
  • Manny [34:50]: "I just didn't taste the tuna."
• Lobster Orzo: The lobster is well-integrated into the dish, making it easier to consume without direct confrontation.
• Dorade: Represents the final challenge, where Manny successfully enjoys a non-fried, well-prepared fish dish.
  • Manny [37:10]: "It's really good. The char, the charredness of the skin on the top. This tastes like a steak."

Outcome:

• Manny successfully navigates the final step, indicating a significant reduction in his seafood aversion.
• Devin [36:12]: "Manny can tolerate it, but enjoying it is a breakthrough."

5. Results and Conclusions

After two months of gradual exposure and experimentation, Manny reports substantial progress in overcoming his picky eating tendencies toward seafood. While not entirely cured, his ability to enjoy seafood in various forms has improved, reducing social friction and enhancing personal relationships.

Key Insights:

• Gradual exposure combined with positive reinforcement can effectively mitigate food aversions.
• Individualized approaches, considering personal preferences and textures, are crucial.
• Supportive social environments encourage successful outcomes.

Notable Quote:

• Manny [38:28]: "I think you, at least in my case, can kind of cure it because I'm not going to eat fish that's just sitting there, that's not presented in any kind of way, but depending on the flavors around it... there are ways you can tolerate it."

6. Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with reflections on the journey toward overcoming picky eating. Manny expresses newfound confidence and ambition to tackle other food aversions, such as corn, inspired by his success with seafood.

Notable Quote:

• PJ Vogt [38:55]: "I think you have answered the question, like, can you cure picky eating? I think you have."

Additional Insights:

• The collaborative effort between Manny, Noah, and Devin highlights the importance of community and support in personal growth.
• Dr. Zucker emphasizes the biological and psychological underpinnings of food aversions, offering a comprehensive framework for understanding and addressing picky eating.

Conclusion: In this engaging episode, Search Engine provides a multifaceted exploration of picky eating through personal narrative, expert analysis, and practical experimentation. Manny's journey offers valuable insights into the potential for overcoming food aversions, emphasizing that with the right strategies and support, significant progress is achievable.