DOGE and the Mystery of the State Department Teslas

Summary

Podcast Summary: "DOGE and the Mystery of the State Department Teslas"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Search Engine
• Host: PJ Vogt
• Episode: DOGE and the Mystery of the State Department Teslas
• Release Date: March 7, 2025
• Description: On "Search Engine," PJ Vogt delves into perplexing questions that keep listeners awake at night. This episode, named among the best by Vulture, Time, The Economist, & Vogue, explores the enigmatic $400 million Tesla purchase by the State Department and its ties to Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency (Doge).

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Introduction to the Mystery

The episode opens with PJ Vogt grappling with the complexities of the second Trump administration. He reflects on his experiences during Trump's first term, noting a pervasive sense of derangement and constant bombardment of information via smartphones. The focal point becomes a puzzling $400 million line item in the State Department's procurement forecast designated for armored Teslas—a seemingly extravagant and questionable expenditure.

Notable Quote:

"The President is very talented at making your phone buzz... now you have a second nervous system, Elon Musk's." [03:35]

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Investigative Reporting with Bobby Allen

PJ introduces Bobby Allen, a tech correspondent at NPR, who became intrigued by the mysterious Tesla expenditure. Initially covering politics, Bobby transitioned to tech upon recognizing the increasing power of Silicon Valley in shaping modern governance.

Notable Quote:

"Having this army of communications people... it's fighting these comms people, it's fighting the lieutenants around, you know, really powerful billionaires that are running these companies." [05:10]

Bobby explains how reporter Ryan Grimm spotlighted the $400 million for armored Teslas in a seemingly mundane State Department spreadsheet. However, subsequent edits to the document—removing "Tesla" and replacing it with "electric vehicle company" within minutes of publication—raised red flags.

Notable Quote:

"Somebody... took the word Tesla out of this document. And they removed it and now it just says electric vehicle company." [08:51]

---

Elon Musk's Involvement and Doge

The conversation delves into Elon Musk's public persona and his role in the Department of Government Efficiency (Doge). Musk's attempts to position himself as a government reformer clash with his business interests, raising concerns about conflicts of interest.

Notable Quote:

"Elon Musk has been the public face of Doge... But what he's actually doing, which even the smart people I talk to who usually see the things I can't, they seem very confused by what's actually going on here." [15:02]

PJ references Curtis Yarvin, a conservative blogger whose ideas echo Musk's views on government efficiency and authoritarianism, suggesting ideological influences beneath Musk's public statements.

---

The State Department's Tesla Line Item

Bobby Allen uncovers that the $400 million originally intended for a modest $483,000 budget to explore electric vehicles (EVs) for the State Department was disproportionately inflated and specifically earmarked for Tesla—a company not known for producing armored vehicles.

Notable Quote:

"The Biden administration had set aside $483,000 for buying EVs this year, which obviously is very different than 400 million." [37:15]

Bobby's investigation reveals discrepancies between the initial allocation and the inflated figure, questioning the integrity of the procurement process and the transparency of the administration's actions.

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Public and Media Reaction

The story garners significant attention, with notable media figures like Rachel Maddow criticizing the expenditure, while Elon Musk retaliates by calling Maddow a liar on social media. The rapid back-and-forth reflects the chaotic media environment and the polarization surrounding Musk and Trump.

Notable Quote:

"Elon Musk calling Rachel Maddow a liar... this present a very vivid postcard of our moment." [08:39]

Public opinion polls indicate a majority support for Doge, highlighting the divided perspectives on governmental reforms and Musk's influence.

---

Ongoing Investigation and Unanswered Questions

Despite Bobby Allen's rigorous reporting, key questions remain unresolved:

• Who Added the $400 Million? It’s unclear whether the line item was inserted by a Doge worker, a State Department official, or Elon Musk himself.
• Intent Behind the Allocation: Whether the allocation was a deliberate attempt to funnel funds to Tesla or a bureaucratic error remains speculative.

Bobby receives an anonymous tip suggesting insider knowledge that contradicts the State Department's statements, hinting that the allocation did not originate under the Biden administration as initially claimed. However, attempts to contact the source prove futile, leaving the mystery unsolved.

Notable Quote:

"What we don't know is who put the $400 million into that document... was this really their intention for this to be quietly done?" [45:50]

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Reflections on Journalism and Governance

The episode concludes with reflections on the challenges of modern journalism in an era of relentless news cycles and misinformation. Bobby Allen emphasizes the importance of perseverance in investigative reporting but acknowledges the overwhelming nature of contemporary media dynamics.

Notable Quote:

"Every day feels like it's OJ Speeding on the freeway in his white Bronco. It's like that level of an insane breaking news day." [44:42]

PJ Vogt underscores the unsettling certainty the story presents about current governmental practices, urging listeners to maintain awareness and critical thinking amidst pervasive uncertainty.

---

Conclusion: An Unresolved Enigma

"DOGE and the Mystery of the State Department Teslas" leaves listeners with lingering questions about the integrity of the State Department's procurement processes, the extent of Elon Musk's influence within the Trump administration, and the broader implications for government transparency and accountability. The unresolved nature of the $400 million Tesla allocation serves as a microcosm of the complexities and conspiracies that define contemporary American politics.

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Notable Quotes Recap:

• Bobby Allen: "What we don't know is who put the $400 million into that document... Who's behind it?" [45:50]
• Elon Musk: "Transparency is what builds trust." [25:23]
• PJ Vogt: "You're a journalist, you're a citizen... how much attention to pay, where to put your attention." [43:01]

Final Thoughts: This episode masterfully intertwines investigative journalism with a deep dive into political intrigue, offering listeners a comprehensive exploration of a baffling governmental expenditure and its connections to influential tech moguls. For those seeking to understand the murky intersection of technology, politics, and media in modern America, "DOGE and the Mystery of the State Department Teslas" provides a compelling and thought-provoking narrative.

Transcript

[PJ Vogt]

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[Bobby Allen]

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[PJ Vogt]

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[Bobby Allen]

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[PJ Vogt]

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[Bobby Allen]

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[PJ Vogt]

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[Bobby Allen]

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[PJ Vogt]

Service fees apply for three orders in 14 days. Excludes restauran so here's one of those questions that might actually be too big or at least unanswerable by another person. I am really struggling in the early days of the second Trump administration to figure out how much attention to pay to what the new federal government is doing. I keep asking myself what, if anything, I learned the first time around. Back then, many of the stories I focused on ended up not mattering much. There were things that seemed maximally outrageous, but which later were supplanted by much more outrageous things. The first Trump presidency made everyone in American life more deranged, more crazy, including me. And the second time around, I personally have just felt like A person who maybe once got too drunk and now has a chance on their second night out to try to adjust, maybe, but it's difficult. One of the main facts of life in a Trump presidency is that the President is very talented at making your phone buzz. If you own a smartphone, you have this feeling that even if you don't understand what's going on in his office or his mind, that you are umbilically attached to his nervous system. Actually, that's what things were like in Trump 1, in Trump 2, we've now been plugged into a second nervous system, Elon Musk's. Because Elon Musk is making a lot of decisions, and Elon Musk tweets something like 25 hours a day. So now you have two of the most online people American society has ever produced, people who post more than anyone I know in my extremely too online social circles who are just constantly doing stuff. And this stuff feels consequential. And if you're me and you move in my social circle, the stuff may not feel very thought through. But it's also unclear which of these things to try to actually lock in on and understand. The past couple weeks, I was watching a reporter I follow try to get to the bottom of just one minor mystery that had surfaced around Elon Musk and the Trump administration. And watching him try to get to the truth, I felt like I was getting a very vivid postcard of our moment. There's a little microcosm of how hard it is to know what is going on and which questions to stick with. So I wanted to get him to come to Search Engine and tell me the story. Can you start by just saying your name and what you do?

[Bobby Allen]

Yeah, sure. I'm Bobby Allen. I am a tech correspondent at npr.

[PJ Vogt]

How long have you been covering tech?

[Bobby Allen]

Something like five years or so. Kind of fell into it sideways. I was in D.C. covering politics and breaking news, and somebody tapped me on the shoulder one day and was like, hey, you want to go to San Francisco and cover tech? And I was like, honestly, when I pick up newspapers, I don't even read the tech section, so I think you're asking the wrong guy. But then they were like, yeah, but this is where all the power is. There's these people need more accountability. You think politics are important, really? The decision makers and the gatekeepers are in Silicon Valley. And I said, okay, fine, I'll do it. So I've been doing it ever since.

[PJ Vogt]

And do you feel like that promise has turned out to be true, that you have Turned from one power center in American life into another.

[Bobby Allen]

Yeah. And I think the way that Silicon Valley operates has taken a lot of clues from Washington, right? Having this army of communications people who, you know, send you responses and answers to your questions by like committees of 10, operating with complete opacity, trying to front run stories before you get your own stories out. Just the kind of constantly at war with reporter kind of vibe. It's just like brass knuckles. It's fighting these comms people, it's fighting the lieutenants around, you know, really powerful billionaires that are running these companies. It's, it's very hostile, it's very confrontational. And I kind of like that in this sick, kind of weird way. Anyone who knows me will tell you that I invite drama and like fueling drama and I'm like the biggest gossip anyone knows. So I, maybe I'm perfect for the job, but it's not for everyone, that's for sure.

[PJ Vogt]

And so tell me about this question you were trying to answer. This story about Elon Musk and an unusual line item in the State Department budget. Where does that story start for you?

[Bobby Allen]

Yeah, so there's this reporter, Ryan Grimm, and he did a story pointing out, I think is it Dropsite is a website he writes for.

[PJ Vogt]

I think it's Dropsite News.

[Bobby Allen]

Dropsite news, exactly. He did a story that just put a spotlight on this one item in a super boring otherwise like ho hum, whatever State Department spreadsheet of what the State Department thinks it's going to spend Money on in 2025.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay, so this was a public document that the State Department had put on its website called a procurement forecast. An enormous, dense document that lists places where the State Department expects to spend taxpayer money. This document is not user friendly, it's quite obscure. But Ryan Grimm, this sharp dogged reporter, sat down and pored through the document just to check was this new unusual presidential administration doing anything new and unusual that might be revealed here in the spreadsheet's many lines? And Rheing Graham found something that seemed to him very strange. The U.S. state Department, the part of the government that deals with diplomacy and foreign policy, was revealing that they were going to spend $400 million on a fleet of new armored cars. Well, not just any armored cars, armored Teslas. Almost half a billion dollars in taxpayer money to be spent on electric vehicles made specifically by Elon Musk's company. Elon Musk, the man who these days is Donald Trump's right hand man. So Ryan Grim publishes his story. Some outlets like Rachel Maddow start to zero in on what they perceive as the fishiness of all this. And isn't it great what they're doing?

[Bobby Allen]

Isn't it great and definitely not at all illegal or profoundly corrupt for the president to put someone with billions of dollars in government contracts personally in charge.

[PJ Vogt]

Of deciding what happens to government contracts.

[Bobby Allen]

Rachel Maddow did a segment, the New York Times did a story. So this is, you know, swirling around the Internet. Lots of people have takes, lots of people are in. And then Elon Musk goes on X and basically calls Rachel Maddow a liar, quote, hey, Maddow, why the lie? And of course, he doesn't back that up with any documentation.

[PJ Vogt]

So you're seeing all this back and forth like you're seeing Ellen's reaction. You're getting ready to do your story for NPR the next morning. When do you notice that the original State Department spreadsheet has been altered?

[Bobby Allen]

So I'm watching all of this unfold and I go to the State Departments website and find this spreadsheet myself. I download it and I take a look and it has been edited. And it's not like didn't take investigative journalism to figure this out. It's just on the State Department's website. I refreshed it and I saw, oh, the word Tesla has been removed. And now it just says electric vehicle company. And they even wrote the time they edited it and it was like two minutes before I had refreshed the page. So that's crazy. Yes. Some people like to say it's not, not the crime, it's the COVID up. This sure does look like some kind of COVID up. Right? Somebody, yeah, after this got tons of attention and was something of a hubbub, took the word Tesla out of this document. And the reporter in me is just like, what is going on? At first I thought this was really weird. Now I think it's even weirder. And I'm just like dying to know what is the real story here? Who did this? Why are they doing this? Who's behind it? My spidey sense as a reporter is just off the wall. The Trump administration is expected to purchase $400 million worth of Tesla vehicles. NPR's Bobby Allen reports. This comes as Tesla.

[PJ Vogt]

Bobby publishes his story the morning of February 13th. Things are moving.

[Bobby Allen]

After reports circulated of the lucrative federal contract, The State Department document was edited. The word Tesla was removed. It now says the $400 million purchase is for, quote, armored electric vehicles. Musk has been questioned over conflicts of interest in the White House. Given he runs six.

[PJ Vogt]

Can we slow down on $400 million for Tesla armored vehicles? Like, does Tesla make armored vehicles?

[Bobby Allen]

No.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay.

[Bobby Allen]

They have a cybertruck, which. And whether or not it's armored or even, you know, bulletproof is very, very questionable. There's this famous incident in 2019 when Elon Musk brought one of his executives on stage to demonstrate to the world how bulletproof it was and threw a metal ball at the window and it cracked.

[PJ Vogt]

I know many people are familiar with this clip, but let's just watch it together one more time because it represents nearly perfect unscripted comedy. It's 2019, and we're at a fairly infamous product presentation for the then new Cybertruck.

[Elon Musk]

Welcome to the Cybertruck unveil.

[PJ Vogt]

I love you guys, too.

[Elon Musk]

I love you guys, too.

[PJ Vogt]

On a stage filled with fog, laser lights, and jets of flame, the aesthetic halfway between Tron and American gladiator, Elon in a black leather jacket, here to give the world its first glimpse of the future.

[Elon Musk]

So I present to you the cybertruck.

[PJ Vogt]

Encountered in the real world. I tend to think cybertrucks look like computer mice from the 1980s, but on stage here, I have to say, it does look pretty futuristic and cool. And now comes the moment of real showmanship. A Tesla employee holding a metal ball is about to try to prove Elon Musk's claim that the cybertruck's so called armor glass windows are essentially indestructible.

[Elon Musk]

Franz, could you try to break this glass, please, Franz?

[PJ Vogt]

Franz. A very buff individual winds up to throw the metal ball. Sure.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[PJ Vogt]

Oh, my fucking God.

[Elon Musk]

Well, maybe that was a little too hard.

[PJ Vogt]

Elon Musk making a big promise that turns out not to be rigorously, empirically true. As the shattered glass in his car fact checks him the way only physics really can. Room for improvement on stage in 2019, Musk quickly rebounds.

[Elon Musk]

We actually throw everything. We threw wrenches. We threw everything. We even literally threw the kitchen sink at the glass, and it didn't break.

[PJ Vogt]

For them.

[Elon Musk]

Weird reason it broke now. I don't know why. You know, fix it. In post, I feel like this was.

[PJ Vogt]

A moment where Elon had not yet completed his arc as, like, he was a person more liked in more quarters. But people were starting to sort of tire of his braggadocio and just. It was a moment where I was like, oh, Elon Musk has become popular target for schadenfreude. Like, people really, really enjoyed it.

[Bobby Allen]

Yeah. And it was just like, proof of concept. What Elon says is often exaggerated and sometimes just like straight up a lie. Right? I mean, it's like, what better illustration of that than a quote unquote, bulletproof window breaking when you throw a ball at it? Just amazing. But, yeah, $400 million for armored Teslas, as you mentioned, something that doesn't even exist, and that's like half a billion dollars of taxpayer money. What?

[PJ Vogt]

It just didn't make any sense at this point. The story was still in its first 24 hours. Bobby didn't yet even know what the State Department was Planning to use $400 million worth of Teslas for. Sometimes it's hard to tell when you're talking about money the government spends what constitutes a lot of money. This here, a lot.

[Bobby Allen]

To give you some perspective of how much money this is, multiple people I talked to as part of this reporting were like, that might be enough money to replace the entire fleet of vehicles that State Department personnel use around the world. There's like 3,000 armored vehicles. And if you do the back of the envelope math, this potentially could swap every, say, Mercedes Benz or BMW that's armored with a cybertruck.

[PJ Vogt]

I mean, it's also surprising because Elon's public stance for the past few months has been, the US Government wastes so much money. I'm going to lead an office called doge, a Department of Government Efficiency, and I'm going to find all the places that your taxpayer money is being squandered, either by inept bureaucrats or, you know, corrupt ones. And it's really surprising, if you take him at his word, that the same person who is publicly making the argument for this is standing to benefit from this thing. That's very good for Tesla, but questionably good right now for the US Government.

[Bobby Allen]

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, when it comes to hypocrisies, people have many examples to point to with Musk and his Doge work, but this is like a shining, fat, glaring one.

[PJ Vogt]

We're going to return to this Tesla mystery, but I just want to pause a moment to think about Doge, the Department of Government Efficiency, which Elon Musk has been the public face of. Doge has been, for me at least, the most surprising, strange part of the early days of the second Trump administration. There's what Musk says he wants to do with cut government waste, an idea nearly everybody supports in theory. But then there's what he's actually doing, which even the smart people I talk to who usually see the things I can't, they seem very confused by what's actually going on here? Here's how I've been trying to make sense of it. A few years ago, when I was covering crypto, crypto people would sometimes tell me I had to read this strange online conservative blogger named Curtis Yarvin.

[Bobby Allen]

Curtis Yarvin is this software developer dude who has a huge online following. He became like a big figure. I think it's called, like the Dark Enlightenment movement.

[PJ Vogt]

Yes.

[Bobby Allen]

And they kind of push for authoritarianism, essentially. And he's often pushed for this, like, I think the acronym is like rage, like Retire all government employees, which is almost like a proto DOGE kind of thing.

[PJ Vogt]

Yeah.

[Bobby Allen]

He's become someone that a lot of Silicon Valley types, libertarian types, anti government types, have rallied around and held up as this kind of like intellectual leader.

[PJ Vogt]

Yarvin has said this country would be better off as a monarchy instead of a democracy. JD Vance has talked about being influenced by Yarvin, as have a few Silicon Valley people close to the administration. Marc Andreessen, Peter Thiel, and Curtis. Yarvin is an Elon fan. On a podcast appearance in 2021, Yarvin said his criticism of Musk, the reason he could never run the country, was just where he was born. The knock I have on Elon Musk.

[Elon Musk]

Is that he was born in South Africa, so he's not actually eligible.

[PJ Vogt]

But Yarvin went on to say he'd still imagine Musk being useful in the kind of revolution he was hoping for, getting rid of the people he couldn't stand.

[Elon Musk]

These kind of old boomers like Bolton.

[PJ Vogt]

And Barr, the people who slowed down Donald Trump.

[Elon Musk]

You know, if you put Elon Musk in the White House, you shouldn't even deal with these people. He should just blow up all the agencies, go around them.

[PJ Vogt]

I should say, as far as I know, Elon Musk has never mentioned Yarvin's name publicly. And maybe he's arrived at similar ideas on his own. But when Elon talks about how the government should work, I hear echoes of Yarvin. Back in August 2024, in the weeks after the attempted assassination on Trump, Elon sat for an interview with Lex Friedman.

[Bobby Allen]

This is the longest podcast I've ever done. It's a fascinating, super technical and wide ranging conversation.

[PJ Vogt]

This podcast episode is eight and a half hours long, meaning the rare podcast you could both fall asleep and wake up to, among other things, many other things. Elon talks about his admiration for Trump, especially in the wake of this attempt on his life.

[Elon Musk]

And I thought Trump displayed courage under fire. Objectively, you Know, he's just got shot. He's got blood streaming down his face and he's like fist pumping, saying, fight. You know, like, that's impressive. Like, you can't feign bravery in a situation.

[PJ Vogt]

Later in the interview, you hear the seeds of Doge Elon starts musing about how the government is totally broken and how someone needs to go in there and start throwing out all the excessive rules.

[Elon Musk]

There has to be a garbage collection for laws and regulations so that you don't keep accumulating laws and regulations to the point where you can't do anything. This is why we can't build high speed rail in America. It's illegal. That's the issue. It's illegal. Six ways to Sunday to build high speed rail in America.

[PJ Vogt]

I wish you could just like for a week go into Washington and like be the head of the committee for making. What is it for the garbage collection. Making government smaller, like removing stuff.

[Elon Musk]

I have discussed with Trump the idea of a government efficiency commission.

[PJ Vogt]

Nice. Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

And I would be willing to be part of that commission.

[PJ Vogt]

These two in a contest to see who can bring less affect to an interview and somehow both winning. Later that month, in a livestream conversation on X, Musk is now interviewing Trump and you can actually hear him pitching the idea.

[Elon Musk]

I think it would be great to just have a government efficiency commission that takes a look at these things and just ensures that the taxpayer money to the taxpayers, hard earned money, is spent in a good way. And I'd be happy to help out on such a commission. I'd love it if it were Fong.

[Donald Trump]

Well, you're the greatest cutter. I mean, I look at what you do, you walk in and you just say you want to quit? They go on strike. I won't mention the name of the company, but they go on strike. And you say, that's okay. You're all gone. You're all gone. So every one of you is gone. And you are the greatest. You would be very good. Oh, you would love it. But you know, if you look at Argent, well, I'd be happy to have, by the way, congratulations. I just looked at the number of people that are listening to you and I chat. We'll call it a chat. But congratulations. This is very good. I mean, it's great. And you're an interesting character.

[PJ Vogt]

You know, the, the way they're talking to each other is striking. Two powerful people just admiring each other's power. Musk, who has said America needs a better CEO. Trump, who not long after this will describe himself as a King. A month after that conversation, in September, Trump announces the creation of a new government task force at the suggestion of.

[Donald Trump]

Elon Musk, who has given me his complete and total endorsement. That's nice. Smart guy. He knows what he's doing. He knows what he's doing. Very much appreciated. I will create a government efficiency commission tasked with conducting a complete financial and performance audit of the entire federal government and making recommendations for drastic reforms. We need to do it can't go on the way we are now.

[PJ Vogt]

When Trump took office, which, believe it or not, was just seven weeks ago, suddenly there was something called Doge. And suddenly lots of federal workers were getting emails from Elon Musk telling them they were no longer employed. Bobby says the speed of it all surprised a lot of people.

[Bobby Allen]

I won't name them, but I have some colleagues who are older than me who thought it was Doe doggy. And I had to be like, no, it's not doggy, it's Doge. I think there is. There is some kind of generational element to it. I think some people who aren't on the Internet as much as you and I are may have missed the pronunciation and what it's a nod to. So, I mean, everyone thought it was going to be a little bit more incremental, a little bit more, and that they would maybe go before Congress and say, hey, here's a bunch of spending that USAID does abroad. We want to cut, like, 20% of it. That would be like a front page story on the New York Times. Right. But instead, instead of being like a blue ribbon commission, I mean, he has just moved the office of DOGE into the White House and just dismantling entire agencies, just. Just knocking things down to the studs completely. So nobody envisioned, and I talked to colleagues of mine who covered the Trump campaign, nobody envisioned exactly this kind of incredibly influential, totally unchecked role that Elon would be playing. It's why people jokingly say, you know, it used to be Elon was a shadow vp. Now people are saying, you know, President Musk because he just has an incredible amount of power here.

[PJ Vogt]

Musk does have a lot of power. How you feel about that probably has more to do with how you feel about Elon Musk than anything else. If you think, like many Americans do, that the government is bloated and inefficient, and if you believe, as many others do, that Elon Musk is a genius, then he's not destroying democracy, he's destroying bureaucracy. For others, though, this feels unsettling. And one way Musk has tried to win some public confidence is by making the case for why Americans should trust him. Most memorably, for me, in this unusual Oval Office press conference.

[Donald Trump]

X, are you okay? This is X. And he's a great guy. High iq. He's a high iq.

[Bobby Allen]

There was this very. I can't help but laugh. The image is just so funny. But this very funny press conference in the Oval Office in which Trump was seated at his desk and then Musk was there with his kid on his shoulders and sometimes on the ground, and they were talking about Doge.

[Donald Trump]

And we're going to be signing a very important deal today. It's Doge, and I'm going to ask Elon to tell you a little bit about it and some of the things that we found which are shocking billions.

[PJ Vogt]

Trump hands off to Elon, who's in a black overcoat, black MAGA hat, and who tells the reporters the aim of his new government project.

[Elon Musk]

At a high level, you say, what is the goal of Dogeo or Bart? And I think a significant part of the presidency is to restore democracy.

[PJ Vogt]

This may seem like Musk's message here, delivered over the murmurs of his child. It's much more publicly palatable than Curtis Yarvin's. He's not saying we should get rid of democracy. He's saying instead that the real impediment to the will of the people is all the cruft of bureaucracy and regulation that make it so that our government costs lots of money but doesn't run well enough to do the things voters want. Musk's solution so far is to just gleefully delete lots of parts of the US Government. Of course, that is the same government that also regulates his companies, sometimes gives them subsidies. And a reporter in the room asked him, isn't it a problem that you have this much power over a government that you also do business with? Is there any sort of accountability, check and balance in place that would provide any transparency for the American people?

[Elon Musk]

Well, all of our actions are fully public, so if you see anything, you say, like, wait a second. Hey, Elon, that seems like maybe that's, you know, there's a conflict there. It's not like people are going to be shy about saying that.

[PJ Vogt]

They'll say it immediately, including you yourself.

[Elon Musk]

Yes, but transparency is what builds trust. Not simply somebody asserting trust, not somebody saying they're trustworthy, but transparency. So you can see everything that's going on, and then you can see, am I doing something that benefits one of my companies or not? It's totally obvious.

[PJ Vogt]

As evidence of his commitment to transparency, Elon says he's even created a website. You can visit doge.govsavings, a long, frequently updated list of everything he says he's cut to save taxpayer money. I looked at it with Bobby. Can you describe what it looks like?

[Bobby Allen]

Sure. So we have a gold money sign. It says Department of Government Efficiency. If this were a real government department, I'm not sure that we'd have this, like, crypto looking money sign as the icon, but there it is.

[PJ Vogt]

Yeah.

[Bobby Allen]

Right next to that, it has a little American flag, and it says an official website of the United States government. Okay, so sounds official. It says estimated savings, $105 billion amount saved per taxpayer. It says $652.17. So there you go. According to Elon, Doge has already saved both of us 652 bucks.

[PJ Vogt]

All right, so, okay, so then you scroll down and there's like a long list. It looks like a credit card statement in reverse because it's like places where money's being spent. Literally the location and then the amount. And can you, like, just talk to me about one of these line items?

[Bobby Allen]

Okay, so one savings that Musk has boasted about is canceling a $9 million payment to Reuters. So the news agency for large scale social deception. Right. And Musk has presented this as some sort of smoking gun that the government was paying Reuters to deceive people. Right. But when reporters actually looked into this, first of all, it wasn't Reuters, the news agency, but was Thomas Reuters Special Service, which is like a data and research arm of Reuters, totally separate company. And the Defense Department had a contract with them to fight against social deception. And the kicker is the contract was actually signed in Trump's first term.

[PJ Vogt]

Oh, wow. Okay, okay. But so if you're like someone who is predisposed to Musk's worldview and you're somebody who feels like the media is liberal, which I don't disagree with. But you feel like the media is literally working with Democrats to lie to people, which is something I do disagree with. Like, this looks like at some point Joe Biden was like, we need to pay Reuters the news agency money to deceive people. Give them the money, and we'll write them in the budget. And Musk went through and was like, this is wrong. And like, if you take him at his word, this is what you think happened.

[Bobby Allen]

Exactly right. And look, by the time the fact checkers come out and say, hey, guys, this actually is a terrible example of wasteful spending for all of these reasons, the news cycle has already moved on and Musk is already promoting some other savings. There's so many just absurdities when you really look at it carefully. But again, I think to Elon, what really matters is just, you know, just having sort of daily headlines being generated about doing something. Because to most Trump fans and people who love Elon, no matter how the media covers it, the media isn't to be trusted. So if the media's out here truth squatting, all these contracts, no, we're gonna scold you. No, it is not a $5 billion contract. It is a $5 million contract. I don't know, some fans of Elon Musk might be like, well, at least we're saving $5 million. You know, like, sometimes there's like, a journalistic win, but it's like, to their supporters, I don't know that that's changing any minds.

[PJ Vogt]

Honestly, all these fact checks, they probably weren't. Polling published just this week shows that a majority of Americans support Doge. 54% say it should influence government spending. 51% approve of Trump's cuts to federal agencies. And more people say Musk is cutting waste than disagree. Which means if you're a Doge skeptic, you're actually in the minority. But that's also why this story about the State Department Teslas seems to Bobby like such an obviously big deal. If Trump's State Department was Planning to send $400 million to Tesla, that sure looks like, at best, waste, at worst, corruption. The problems Elon's Doge Commission had promised to eradicate. That's how it looked, but there wasn't yet any proof. After a short break, an anonymous source reaches out to Bobby Allen, Foreign I.

[Bobby Allen]

Recently found out that you can see a personal dietitian covered by insurance. There's this platform called Nourish that will match you with a dietitian based on.

[PJ Vogt]

Whatever your concerns are, whether that's weight.

[Bobby Allen]

Loss, eating disorders, autoimmune conditions, or something else. They're actually a network with major insurance providers. So Most patients pay $0 out of pocket. Pocket. 94% of patients pay $0 out of pocket. Find your [e-mail] that's usenourish.com.

[PJ Vogt]

Where'd you get those shoes?

[Bobby Allen]

Easy.

[PJ Vogt]

They're from DSW. Because DSW has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now. You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour, the boots that turn grocery aisles into runways, and all the. The Styles that show off the many sides of you, from daydreamer to multitasker and everything in between. Because you do it all in really great shoes. Find a shoe for every you at your DSW store or dsw dot com. Welcome back to the show. So that press conference with Musk in the Oval Office explaining that the glare of public attention would keep him honest, that happened in early February, the day before Ryan Grimm's story about the mysterious $400 million Tesla line item was published. Once that story's out, we know what happens. Elon says it's a lie. The word Tesla magically disappears from a government website. And then Bobby's NPR story comes out and Trump's State Department finally issues a public response.

[Bobby Allen]

They issue this bullet point statement that's basically like, yeah, this is something that started in the Biden administration. So they're pointing a finger at the Biden White House, the Biden State Department, and they basically suggest, oh, well, this was a Biden thing, we're getting rid of it, we're not going to move forward. I think the language they use was it's indefinitely on hold, whatever that means. But they have no plans to pursue it.

[PJ Vogt]

So the subtext is both, this wasn't our call. You guys leapt to the conclusion that this looks like perhaps a kind of self dealing. This is something the Biden administration did and we're not even fulfilling it. This was like, you guys are mad at Trump, you should be mad at Biden. Like the eggs on your face, journalists.

[Bobby Allen]

That's right, yeah.

[PJ Vogt]

At this point, it felt a lot like the story was done. If the State Department's telling the truth and it was Joe Biden's people who initiated this Tesla deal, then no one thinks there's a conflict of interest here. At this point, Bobby's curiosity was still alive, but it wasn't clear what he could do with it.

[Bobby Allen]

In my position, I don't have access to these confidential State Department records. So when the State Department issues a statement saying, here is our explanation, I, correspondent for npr, have to update my story saying, here's the State Department's explanation. And that's what I did. I was like, they're pointing at Biden and they're saying, it's over with. We are expunging this from the spreadsheet. Nothing to see here, folks.

[PJ Vogt]

And so as like a rule, following journalists for npr, it's like the government has made a statement. We know that when the government makes a statement, you put in the story as like a human being, student of The Internet and follower of Elon Musk statements. What were you thinking as a person?

[Bobby Allen]

It didn't exactly pass the sniff test for so many different reasons. But again, I don't have the access they have. And so, you know, an investigative reporter might say, okay, we'll just file a FOIA. But in this Trump era, most reporters are assuming FOIAs are just gonna be dead in the water. So I was like, okay, cool, yeah, I'll file this foia. Maybe I'll get a response, like, three years from now that it's been delayed. But I'm a breaking news reporter. I'm interested in Elon, I'm interested in tech. I'm interested in what Musk is doing in the White House. I want an answer now. So I'm just making as many calls as I can. I'm trying to dig around, and then finally, something lands in my inbox, and it came in the form of an anonymous reader complaining about my story. And let me just say, when you work at a national news organization and you do stories about divisive figures like Trump and Musk, these kinds of complaints are leg. I mean, all the time. I'm sure you get them too, pj. It's just. They're constant. So I just took a deep breath. I go, okay, another one of these.

[PJ Vogt]

Can you. Can you read the email?

[Bobby Allen]

Sure. Let me. Let me pull it up. And again, this came in from a person who was not willing to identify themselves. Okay, this person says. You mentioned that the White House says the contract had been started under the Biden administration. This is not true. The State Department was a laggard in federal fleet electrification and reluctant to acquire any. Never mind the necessary charging infrastructure. They had no money for this.

[PJ Vogt]

Bobby only read a part of this email to protect the identity of a source. But essentially, the source was saying they'd had real knowledge of the actual plans for how Biden's State Department planned to spend money in 2025, and those plans did not involve sending $400 million to Tesla.

[Bobby Allen]

And so after reading this, I thought, this is not just somebody carping to me. It's someone who seems to be suggesting they were in the Biden White House. And they, better than anyone I could imagine would be in a position to know that this is BS and that when Trump suggests that this whole thing started in the Biden administration, this person might be able to definitively prove that is not the case. And I was super excited to get this person on the phone, but they weren't so excited to talk to me, right?

[PJ Vogt]

What ensues is days of the wheedling, behind the scenes conversations that are the most boring but consequential parts of being a reporter. And in the end, the source agrees to send the document to Bobby. Actually, it gets picked up by an intermediary, but Bobby finally gets the document, this shred of proof he was looking for. How do you feel?

[Bobby Allen]

Oh, it was amazing. I just like, you know, poured a hot cup of coffee, sat down, pushed this thing on my two monitors, my work at home station, and then I was like, oh, wait, it's only seven pages. Oh, well, it's not gonna take very long to read this. I could do it pretty quickly. But the important big revelation, if that's what you want to call it in this document, is that the Biden administration had set aside $483,000 for buying EVs this year, which obviously is very different than 400 million.

[PJ Vogt]

And this, this document, just like. Is it something you can read from? Is it just like a spreadsheet?

[Bobby Allen]

Totally, yeah, it's a government document. And this felt like, I like, you know, Christmas came early or something. It says, for Bobby Allen. PDF. How exciting. Okay, click, and I scroll down. And it's a government document that the State Department sent to the White House being like, hey, we know you officials working under Biden have all of these electric vehicle requirements and standards and goals. We know that you want us to put some money aside to fulfill some of these goals. Here is our plan. Here are our concerns. Here's the amount of money we want to throw at it. And yeah, it was like 400 and some thousand dollars to buy some EVs for the state Department. And then there was this other little box. I mean, the first thing I did actually, pj, when I got this document was control F Tesla. Like, that was number one, you know.

[PJ Vogt]

Oh, interesting.

[Bobby Allen]

And so when I did that, it brought me to this box, and when I click Tesla, there is so much lingo, right? But it basically says there's been a request to collect information about capabilities from industry. It's received one response. Tesla in parentheses, which the AV program is reviewing, that's armored vehicle.

[PJ Vogt]

So here Bobby could actually see what Biden's State Department's intentions had been to set aside a relatively small amount of money to explore the possibility of making electric Some of the armored cars that diplomats and other employees used to get around in places that could be dangerous.

[Bobby Allen]

So right now, if you're a foreign service worker or like an ambassador in, like, Mogadishu, and you're going from a meeting site, you know, back to the embassy, you'll have a car that's paid for by taxpayers. Typically, it's a car that was built to be armored. It's a super, super secure car and it'll drive you from point A to point B. And what everything we're talking about here was about is there was a push and the Biden administration to just like start thinking about the United States global footprint when it comes to our use of combustion engines. And, you know, how can we maybe replace some of them with EVs? And so this is where this initiative is coming from. Like, oh, maybe one day down the road, like really far down the road when the technology really advances and everyone has charging stations.

[PJ Vogt]

Yeah, because you'd assume that a lot of places where diplomats are driving around in cars are not going to have Tesla superchargers. Every X amount of.

[Bobby Allen]

Totally, totally, totally. Yeah. Especially in remote conflict torn parts of the world. I mean, there's, you're not going to find Tesla charging station. But it was this idea of just like, let's start looking into it. And because Tesla is the biggest electric vehicle company, they're like, let's start engaging Tesla about that.

[PJ Vogt]

To be honest with you, I genuinely don't know whether our federal fleet of armored diplomatic vehicles should be electric or gas. I don't know if it's a good idea to spend 400,000 ish dollars looking into it. If you were the head of Doge looking for cuts, you could convince me that this was a decent one to make $400,000 back to the taxpayer. But instead what happened is that $400,000 ish dollars was turned into $400,000,000 and earmarked for Tesla. Specifically Tesla, a company which does not make armored vehicles and whose car windows did break that time Franz threw a big ball at them. I digress. Bobby had the document proving that the $400 million line item had not originated under Joe Biden, it had originated under Trump. Bobby verified the document by finding other people who worked on that forecast. And now he had a new story. So he writes it up. He asked the State Department to provide a response and gets one.

[Bobby Allen]

But their response was super underwhelming. So the State Department writes me and it says the numbers provided in the document were an estimate. As mentioned, this was a request for information, not a solicitation for a contract. The RFI request for information was strictly to gather information and the Department of State has no intentions to move forward with the solicitation, which is a mouthful, but in plain English, as someone who has been obsessed with this story for a little bit, what the State Department is saying here is they're canceling this effort. They're not planning to go forward with it. And in terms of how do they come up with the 400 million they're conceding here, it was an estimate. They're not saying by whom or what exactly it was going to purchase or where these Teslas would be sent, but that's what they gave me. And I obviously replied to them with a long list of follow up questions for a little bit more clarity and got nothing. But that's what they said.

[PJ Vogt]

Bobby published his story. And unlike a lot of the fact checks that I've seen come and go in the past couple months, this one actually got a fair amount of traction. For whatever reason, the idea of focusing on this one obscure, mysterious line item in a procurement forecast that week, anyway, people seemed able to pay attention. Bobby had a theory as to why that might have been.

[Bobby Allen]

Every time you put on CNN or msnbc, you see talking heads fighting about conflicts of interests and potential abuses of power. But here we have a very specific example of that maybe happening. And something about $400 million of taxpayer money paying for cybertrucks just set people off. I mean, still, my inbox is full of responses, my signal chats are full of random people reaching out. It's just I'm getting a flood of people offering their opinion, expressing outrage, or Elon fans attacking me for pointing. Yeah, it just, it really did kind of, kind of strike a nerve.

[PJ Vogt]

Here's what I know is going to be one of the hardest things about the next four years. Holding onto uncertainty, reminding ourselves of everything that we actually don't know. This story I don't think inspires a lot of trust in Elon Musk, in a fair minded listener, but we actually don't know if he told somebody to give Tesla $400 million or if some sycophant just made a move that Musk was legitimately unaware of, or what other possibility could have transpired. But what we can know, even with the information we have, is how this administration, how Doge, how Elon Musk handles mistakes. The most good faith reading of what happened you could draw is that a mistake was made. And when the mistake was made, Elon Musk made accusations. He said there was nothing to see here. He did not say this shouldn't have happened or explain how it had. And while many reasonable people on the left and right think that the government is bloated and dysfunctional, who could get on board with a scalpel, maybe even a chainsaw being taken to some of our regulations and bureaucracy. You'd really want to believe that the person doing it was transparent and not sloppy. At a minimum, you'd want to think they're capable of admitting when they're wrong. Even for those of us who are trying to be painfully, annoyingly open minded, stories like this offer an uncomfortable amount of certainty about the present realities. You're a journalist, you're a citizen. You're a person who lives on the Internet like everybody else. You're trying to figure out for the next four years, like, how to be sane, how much attention to pay, where to put your attention. Do you feel like you learned anything from this reporting experience about that?

[Bobby Allen]

Yeah, I think I learned, you know, there's a certain amount of cynicism a lot of reporters have, sometimes covering Trump and covering Musk, which is like every day is. Someone put it recently, every day is a white Bronco day. Right. Every day feels like it's OJ Speeding on the freeway in his white Bronco. It's like that level of an insane breaking news day.

[PJ Vogt]

Yeah.

[Bobby Allen]

And no matter what you do or say or can expose, it's gonna wash over by the morning. To be optimistic. I kind of learned that if you push hard enough, maybe there can be some change, maybe there can be pressure, maybe the audience will care. It's a very noisy, chaotic world right now, and it's only gonna become more so. But look, I never thought that millions of people would care about this tiny little line item in a State Department spreadsheet. Sounds pretty boring to me, but it's consequential. It's consequential. So, yeah, I think it gives me hope that at least the audience cares about this kind of stuff.

[PJ Vogt]

What still is the part of this mystery that we don't know the answer to?

[Bobby Allen]

What we don't know is who put the $400 million into that document? Was it a Doge worker? Was it a State Department worker? Was it Elon himself? No idea. Big question mark there. So who did this? And equally as puzzling, was this a mistake? Were there zeros added? Or was this really their intention for this to be quietly done? $400 million of taxpayer money for Teslas to be quietly just pushed through. No one would notice, and that would be it. And I'd love a follow up to be, hey, we found the man or woman who put this in there and they said it was a mistake. And here's their story. If you're listening and you're that person, let's talk because. Because I would love to close that chapter out, but as of now, we just don't know. That's the mystery.

[PJ Vogt]

Bobby Allen. He's a tech correspondent for npr. If you want to listen to his reporting, you can find him on npr. If you want to help him with his reporting, you can find him on Signal at B A L L Y N P. We're going to take a short break and when we come back, I'm going to say the word Potato. Daredevil is born again on Disney plus. My name is Matthew Murdoch. I'm a lawyer. Exactly what kind of a lawyer are you?

[Elon Musk]

A really good one.

[PJ Vogt]

Critics everywhere agree it's the best Marvel television series. Gritty, intense, and elevated, it's Daredevil at his best. If you step out of line, I will be there. Marvel Television's Daredevil born again, now streaming only on Disney plus.

[Bobby Allen]

The PC gave us computing power at home, the Internet connected us, and mobile.

[PJ Vogt]

Let us do it pretty much anywhere. Now, generative AI lets us communicate with.

[Bobby Allen]

Technology in our own language, using our own senses.

[PJ Vogt]

But figuring it all out when you're.

[Bobby Allen]

Living through it is a totally different story. Welcome to Leading the Shift, a new podcast for Microsoft Azure. I'm your host, Susan Ettlinger. In each episode, leaders will share what they're learning to help you navigate all this change with confidence. Please join us, listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

[PJ Vogt]

Potato Search Engine is a presentation of Odyssey and Jigsaw Productions. It was created by Me, PJ Vogt and Shruti Pinamani and it's produced by Garrett Graham and Noah John. Fact checking by Holly Patton. Theme original composition and mixing by Armin Bazarian. Additional production support by Shawn Merchant and Kim Kuble. If you'd like to support our show, keep it alive and get ad free episodes, zero reruns and the occasional bonus audio. Please consider signing up for Incognito Mode. You can learn more at Search Engine Show. We are also going to have early access to our merch, which is coming out soon for Incognito Mode members. Our executive producer is Leah Rees Dennis. Thank you to the team at Jigsaw, Alex Gibney, Rich Perello and John Schmidt. And to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Rob Morandi, Craig Cox, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Matt Casey, Nora Curran, Josefina Francis, Kurt Courtney and Hilary Schopf. Our agent is Oren Rosenbaum at uta. Follow and listen to Search engines for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week.