Transcript

PJ Vogt (0:00)

Hello Search engine listeners. Before we begin this week, some exciting news. I mean, exciting. Maybe I've become a person who overuses the word exciting. This news is not a firework over your head or a winning lottery ticket in your pocket, but it's good news. It's convenient news for our listeners who enjoy the show on Apple Podcasts. You can now become a paid subscriber directly on Apple and get access to extra episodes and ad free versions of our show. Just navigate to the normal show page for search engine the way you ordinarily would and you can, even if you want, sign up for a one month free trial. If you just want to briefly turn off my dulcet ad reads. Also, while you're there, please drop us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps people find the show. That's what we always say. It's true. But also it makes people here feel good. Okay, on with the show after these ads. This episode is brought to you in part by Viori A New Perspective on Performance Apparel Perfect if you're sick and tired of traditional old workout gear, Vuori clothes are incredibly versatile and comfortable. Perfect for whatever your day brings. They're designed to look great beyond the gym, whether you're running errands, heading to the office or meeting up with your friends. One specific Vuori item I would recommend is the core short. This is a short that started it all for Vuori. It is one short for every sport you can do for whatever sports you play. It's ideal for fitness, running and training, but also genuinely stylish and comfortable enough to just wear all day. Vuori is an investment in your happiness. For search engine listeners, they're offering 20% off your first purchase. Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet@vuori.com PJSearch that's V U-O-R-I.com PJSearch exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. Not only will you receive 20% off your first purchase, but enjoy free shipping on any US orders over 75 bucks and free returns. Go to Vuori.com PJsearch and discover the versatility of Vuori clothing. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. This episode is brought to you in part by Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you're drowning in software. Instead of growing your business that's where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e commerce, HR and more. No more app overload, no more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part, Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really matters running your business. Thousands of businesses have already made the switch. Why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com that's O-O-O.com welcome to Search Engine. I'm PJ Vogt. This week, a question, a medium sized question. When is it okay to copy somebody else's idea? Their song, their joke, their story? What is the difference between inspiration and a ripoff? Most of us agree that stealing ideas is wrong. But we also all know that it's complicated. All artists borrow. There's such a thing as inspiration. If the thing borrowed is changed enough, transformed, recontextualized, reimagined, it's okay. So the actual determination, unless we're talking about word for word, plagiarism can be hard to make. Or hard for most of us. Not so hard for most of the creative people I know. Most of them are dead certain in their hearts that they can tell exactly when they're being ripped off. And it bothers them. Most people I talk to who make stuff have this gremlin, this voice in their head that gets a little obsessive, that tells them they can see exactly who has copied their homework and how, and wishes on some deep level that they did not have to smile and pretend to not notice it. They wish they could get a creative restraining order. I'll be honest with you. I have this gremlin too. And I've had this feeling. And when I have, I've just told myself not to give into it. I remind myself that I borrow too. That no idea is really truly original. And sometimes that even works. But it's work trying to be better than your worst impulses. And so this week's story is emotionally satisfying to me because it's just about someone having one of these fights in public, publicly feuding about whether or not a story had been stolen. Stolen from a person who at the time the story was written was dead. And this possibly stolen story happened to have been one of the more celebrated TV shows this year.

Summary

Search Engine – "Is my favorite new tv show this year a ripoff?"

Host: PJ Vogt
Guest: Nicholas Kulish (NYT reporter)
Date: September 26, 2025

Overview

This episode investigates the ongoing legal and ethical feud over the hit medical drama "The Pit," which has been accused of being a thinly veiled ripoff of the classic TV show "ER." PJ Vogt and Nicholas Kulish explore where inspiration ends and theft begins, how creative ownership and credit work, and the messy, intriguing details of the lawsuit pitting Michael Crichton’s estate against Warner Brothers and the creators of "The Pit." The discussion uses these events to examine the larger question: "When is it okay to copy someone else’s idea?"

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: When is it Okay to Copy?

Intellectual property and idea-borrowing: Vogt describes the perennial creative struggle about how much inspiration is okay and when it crosses into ripoff territory.

"Most people I talk to who make stuff have this gremlin...that tells them they can see exactly who has copied their homework and how..." – PJ Vogt (03:00)
The case is brought to life via a public legal battle about authorship and credit for a major new TV show.

2. What is "The Pit" and Why is it Controversial?

"The Pit" described as a real-time medical drama, starring Noah Wylie as a veteran ER doctor, bearing strong similarities to "ER."

"The Pit is a show where doctors and nurses save the lives of patients who come into the emergency room...an hour of the show is an hour of the shift in the emergency room." – Nicholas Kulish (06:05)
Immediate comparisons made to "ER," with nearly identical set-ups and even the same star, Noah Wylie.
The question: Does "The Pit" owe its existence—legally or morally—to "ER," and by extension to Michael Crichton, its now-deceased creator?

3. Michael Crichton: Doctor, Novelist, Inventor of ER

Deep dive into Crichton's background—his time in medical school, early pseudonymous thrillers, and breakout success with "The Andromeda Strain" (10:00–13:11).
Crichton’s innovation: He took a genre (the medical drama), injected realism from his own experience, and co-created "ER" out of an old unproduced script ("Emergency Ward").
Discussion of creative borrowing: Crichton was inspired by older works (e.g., his "Lost World" borrowed from Arthur Conan Doyle), raising questions about where homage ends and IP begins (14:39–16:43).

4. How ER Was Made – and by Whom

Spielberg and Crichton dust off "Emergency Ward" and team up with showrunner John Wells.
Key insight: Though Crichton and Spielberg conceived the idea and reaped most of the profits, John Wells was the creative force behind the show's daily storytelling. Wells's financial and creative role is highlighted in court documents (23:57).

"Despite having worked on ER for more than a decade, [Wells] earned less than half of what either Crichton or Spielberg made... that's not a complaint, it's the deal I made." – Court docs summarized by PJ Vogt (24:14)

5. Enter "The Pit" – and the Lawsuit

Noah Wylie tries to reboot his beloved character ("Logan" style, grizzled and older). He pitches an explicit ER reboot, emails John Wells, and reaches out to the Crichton estate (29:51, 40:48).
"The Pit" emerges, starring Wylie as a similarly positioned emergency doctor but legally separated from ER’s universe. The show is a critical and popular hit, winning Wylie his first Emmy (32:05).
Crichton's estate, led by his widow Sherri Crichton, sues, arguing the show is an unauthorized ER sequel or reboot. Their claim: the makers tried to get permission and, when denied, simply changed the names and details (32:29–34:44).

6. The Legal Drama: Receipts, Emails, and the Meaning of Credit

The Estate's evidence includes damning emails from Wylie and Wells explicitly discussing an ER reboot, referencing character names, structure, and tone identical to what became "The Pit" (40:48–44:05).

"A character study in the vein of Logan Picard and Joker Carter...A 12 episode Hulu limited series where we take another look at the guy who showed us the world the first time. Darker and grittier, aged, but still him." – Noah Wylie to John Wells (40:48)
The initial, explicit ER connection then vanishes, but the core show is largely unchanged.
The judge refuses to throw out the case, finding substance to the Estate's claim (33:05).

7. The Core Question: What Do We Owe Our Creative Predecessors?

Is "The Pit" a transformative work—or a cosmetic redecoration of ER's house?
Vogt and Kulish agree: if the creators hadn't tried to get permission (and been refused), the legal peril would be less acute (45:13).
Vogt’s take: He sides emotionally with creative freedom, arguing inspiration and transformation are the realities of art, and that the legal maximalism of estates can hamper culture.

"If you tell stories, you'll steal and you'll be stolen from. It'll bug you. But if you're really good at what you do, it won't matter much." – PJ Vogt (46:24)
Kulish’s (journalist's) take: The legal case is strong for the estate because of those early, explicit communications.

8. What Happens Next?

Warner Brothers appeals. If they win, "The Pit" goes on. If not, a messy trial could expose internal emails, finances, and more, potentially forcing a high-dollar settlement (47:12–49:19).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On creative borrowing:
“No idea is really truly original…If the thing borrowed is changed enough, transformed, recontextualized, reimagined, it's okay. So the actual determination…can be hard to make.” – PJ Vogt (02:54)
On Crichton’s rise:
“The Andromeda Strain came out before I was born and I actually saw it for the first time in a small, almost hut in Tanzania.” – Nicholas Kulish (10:49)
On IP maximalism:
“I find the word IP itself to be like a bad Andromeda strain…infect[ing] the minds of people who make anything ever at all…” – PJ Vogt (15:52)
On the ER financial windfall:
“There were 331…episodes…I did the math, it was about a quarter of a billion dollars, give or take. For Michael Crichton's take.” – Nicholas Kulish (23:57)
On the lawsuit receipts:
“Sherry Creighton has a lot of emails…saying, hey, we want to remake er and this is how we're proposing to do it…with this real time show where you're in the emergency room hour by hour with the older, grittier, Logan style Dr. Carter.” – Nicholas Kulish (40:26)
On the core dilemma:
“If you're gonna ask somebody for something, you should probably be ready if they say no, not to take it anyway.” – PJ Vogt (44:55)
On the fate of the case:
“If this case moved forward far enough, that's exactly the kind of thing they'd be trying to figure out because they'd be assessing damages. And does HBO Max or does Warner Brothers Discovery…want other creators knowing exactly how big the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is?” – Nicholas Kulish (49:19)

Timestamps for Key Segments

Intro & core question about creative copying | 04:45
Explaining "The Pit" | 05:49–06:39
Introducing "ER" and Michael Crichton | 07:11–09:59
Crichton's early career and story origins | 09:59–14:32
Creative borrowing & The Lost World | 14:39–16:43
Making of ER & showrunner dynamics | 20:23–24:22
"The Pit": How the reboot idea was born | 27:06–32:13
Legal fight and emails as evidence | 32:29–44:55
Analysis and personal opinions | 45:13–46:55
What’s next in the legal case? | 47:12–49:19

Conclusion

This episode uses the controversy around "The Pit" and ER to ask fundamental questions about creativity, credit, and the shifting boundaries between homage, inspiration, and theft in modern entertainment. Through interviews, court documents, and revealing emails, the episode shows just how tangled and human the issues of creative ownership and inspiration can become—especially when money, legacy, and the ghosts of beloved TV shows are at stake.