Search Engine x What We Spend

Summary

Podcast Summary: Search Engine x What We Spend

Episode Title: Search Engine x What We Spend
Host: PJ Vogt
Guest: Courtney Harrell, Host of What We Spend
Release Date: May 30, 2025

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Introduction: Exploring Financial Realities

In this compelling episode of Search Engine, host PJ Vogt teams up with Courtney Harrell, the producer and host of the insightful podcast What We Spend. The episode delves deep into the intricate and often concealed financial lives of individuals, with a special focus on the trucking industry—a cornerstone of American commerce that remains both indispensable and undervalued.

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Meet Courtney Harrell and What We Spend

Courtney Harrell introduces herself at [03:34], stating:

"I think about money all the time. I have always thought about money all the time. I would say that I have traditionally been a high anxiety money person..."

Courtney shares her extensive background in podcast production, having collaborated with notable hosts like Dan Tabursky on series such as Running from Cops and 9-1-1. Her passion for unraveling the complexities of personal finances led her to create What We Spend, where each episode provides an intimate look into an individual's financial habits and struggles.

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The Taboo of Money Conversations

PJ and Courtney discuss the societal taboos surrounding money, highlighting how financial discussions often carry feelings of shame—whether it's about earning too little or too much.

PJ Vogt remarks at [05:07]:

"Money is a funny one because somebody might feel ashamed that they don't make enough. They might feel ashamed that they make too much. And depending on who they're in front of, the same person could have both feelings."

Courtney concurs, emphasizing the discomfort people feel when asked to disclose specific financial details.

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Spotlight on Maxine: A Trucking Story

The episode transitions to an episode of What We Spend focused on Maxine, a 60-year-old long-haul truck driver from North Carolina. Maxine's story serves as a poignant example of the financial hardships faced by truckers today.

Maxine's Financial Struggles and Industry Challenges

Maxine reveals her income woes early in the discussion:

Maxine at [09:31]:

"My taxes this year, I think it was 44,000. And it fell from grace. I was making like 1600 a week... but it went from that to my checks being $380, $480, even $500 in one week."

Courtney explains at [10:14]:

"The freight market has been in a recession the last few years because when manufacturing, construction, and retail markets slow down, there's just less goods to carry, fewer loads, and that means there's less work available, which leads to lower rates."

Maxine shares the instability of her income, highlighting instances where she received negligible or even negative paychecks due to advances taken against future earnings:

Maxine at [11:56]:

"I bought a $500 advance from the next paycheck so I can make rent. Then say my next pay was only $480, then I owe the company the rest of that advance..."

Living in the Truck: The Cost of Minimal Expenses

Maxine outlines her monthly expenses, revealing a dire financial balance:

• Rent: $1,400
• Utilities: $120
• Phone: $80
• Car and Insurance: $645
• Gas: $80
• Groceries on Credit Card: Often necessary due to insufficient income

Additional unexpected costs arise from the nature of trucking, such as maintaining a makeshift bathroom in her truck:

Maxine at [14:25]:

"You gotta make it. Some people buy buckets and make good poetry... I buy a lot of paper towels, garbage bags, cleaner... I spend between $20-26 a day on these supplies."

Emotional and Physical Toll

Maxine speaks candidly about the emotional strain of her job:

Maxine at [38:02]:

"You feel abandoned?"

Courtney probes deeper into how these financial pressures affect truckers' well-being, revealing a systemic issue within the trucking industry where drivers often lack financial security and support.

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A Week in Maxine's Life: Audio Diaries

The episode features a series of Audio Diaries from Maxine, providing a day-by-day account of her experiences and expenses:

1. Day 1 ([25:38]):
   Maxine manages her expenses meticulously, with a total expenditure of $0 as she invests in necessary truck supplies the day before.

2. Day 2 ([28:11]):
   A $42.06 spend ensures her freezer remains stocked, showcasing the hidden costs of living on the road.

3. Day 3 ([32:18]):
   Minimal spending of $16 at Love's Truck Stop, covering basic meals during her journey.

4. Day 4 ([34:36]):
   Increased spending of $26 for basic health needs and personal care during her reset period.

5. Day 5 ([36:04]):
   A significant expense of $202.06 covers medical supplies and personal needs during her stay.

These diaries underscore the relentless cycle of earning and spending that plagues truckers like Maxine, who struggle to maintain financial stability despite the essential nature of their work.

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Systemic Issues and Industry Insights

The podcast highlights broader systemic issues within the trucking industry:

• Deregulation since the 1980s:
  Leading to decreased benefits and increased financial burdens on truckers.

• Lack of Mandatory Support:
  Trucking companies are not legally required to provide expenses like parking or supplies, leaving drivers financially vulnerable.

• Living Wage Shortage:
  The average trucker earns about $57,000 annually, but many, like Maxine, fall short of making ends meet due to inconsistent pay structures and insufficient rates.

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Maxine's Resilience and Future Outlook

Despite the financial hardships, Maxine remains passionate about trucking:

Maxine at [19:03]:

"Knowing that you're doing something meaningful... it's hard for them to get because having empty shelves, not a happy town."

Maxine envisions a future where she can balance trucking with financial stability:

• Dream of Home Ownership:
  "I want to be able to go home and have a little garden and get on my back porch..."

• Potential Career Shifts:
  Considering teaching or part-time driving supplemented with additional jobs to ensure financial security.

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Conclusion: A Call for Change

The episode concludes with Maxine facing the grim reality of homelessness due to unsustainable wages, highlighting the urgent need for industry reforms:

Maxine at [40:50]:

"There are some companies that pay back parking expenses, but it's a toss-up. We're caught between a rock and a hard place."

PJ Vogt emphasizes the critical need for:

• Rental Caps:
  To prevent exorbitant housing costs from crippling truckers.

• Living Wages:
  Ensuring that all roles within the transportation industry offer remuneration that meets basic living standards.

Maxine's story is a clarion call for the trucking industry to recognize and rectify the financial struggles of its drivers, ensuring that those who keep America moving are not left behind.

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Acknowledgements and Further Resources

The episode credits Alex Leslie from the American Transportation Research Institute and Steve Vaselli, author of The Big Trucking and the Decline of the American Dream, for their invaluable insights into the trucking industry's challenges.

Listeners interested in exploring more about financial struggles and personal economies are encouraged to tune into What We Spend by Courtney Harrell, available on all major podcast platforms.

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Notable Quotes:

• Maxine on Financial Strain ([09:39]):

  "I saw my way of being able to get a home and a little bit of land and place to park the truck trailer. But it went from that to my checks being $380, $480, even $500 in one week."

• PJ Vogt on Money Taboos ([05:07]):

  "Money is a funny one because somebody might feel ashamed that they don't make enough... That's why people don't talk about it."

• Maxine on Finding Calm in Driving ([17:55]):

  "Just driving makes me calm. Driving calms me down. I feel safe when I'm driving..."

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Key Takeaways:

1. Financial Instability in Trucking:
   Truckers like Maxine face significant financial challenges despite the critical nature of their work, exacerbated by industry deregulation and insufficient wages.

2. Hidden Costs of the Job:
   Beyond standard expenses, truckers incur additional costs for essential supplies and emergency needs, often without reimbursement from employers.

3. Emotional Toll:
   The financial pressures contribute to feelings of abandonment and stress, highlighting the need for better support systems within the industry.

4. Call for Industry Reform:
   The episode underscores the necessity for systemic changes, including fair wages, regulated expenses, and comprehensive support for truckers to ensure their financial and personal well-being.

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For More Information:

• What We Spend Podcast:
  Visit What We Spend Podcast

• Steve Vaselli's Book:
  The Big Trucking and the Decline of the American Dream

• American Transportation Research Institute:
  ATRI Website

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This episode of Search Engine effectively sheds light on the underreported financial struggles within the trucking industry, providing listeners with a nuanced understanding of the personal and systemic challenges faced by truckers like Maxine. Through heartfelt storytelling and critical analysis, PJ Vogt and Courtney Harrell advocate for meaningful change to support those who keep our economy moving.

Transcript

[Host]

This episode is brought to you in part by Masterclass. What's something your mom always wanted to do? Get into painting, write a novel, shred on a guitar. Whatever it is, you can finally help her achieve it with Masterclass. With Masterclass, you learn from the best to become your best. For still only $10 a month billed annually, a membership with Masterclass gets you unlimited access to every single instructor. It's an amazing deal. Bring your dream home to life on any budget with Joanna Gaines, improve your physical and mental well being with lead gut and brain health experts and turn your passion into achievements with cultural icon Martha Stewart. And the classes really make a difference. 88% of members feel that Masterclass has made a positive impact on their lives. Don't wait another moment to start your learning journey with Masterclass. Our listeners always get great discounts on Masterclass of at least 15% off any annual [e-mail] SearchEngine See MasterClass's latest deal at least 15% [e-mail] SearchEngine or masterclass.com SearchEngine this episode is brought to you in part by Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you're drowning in software. Instead of growing your business, that's where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one, fully integrated platform that handles everything CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, HR and more. No more app overload, no more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really matters running your business. Thousands of business have already made the switch. Why not you try Odoo for [e-mail] that's O-O-O.com hello. This is a very important reminder before I start this today, Friday, May 30th is falafel Friday at Search Engine. That means that at noon Eastern time we're going to have lunch together over Zoom and we will be joined by our friend and fellow podcaster Joe Jonathan Goldstein from Heavyweight. Jonathan is one of the greats and someone who Hearing himself described as one of the greats is probably immediately squirming in his chair somewhere in the American Midwest. Anyway, the great Jonathan Goldstein is joining us. I will have questions for him. Maybe I'll take some listener questions for him. Lunch is at noon Eastern time. The link to join will arrive in your inbox an hour before at 11:00am Eastern Time. This event is for paid subscribers only, so if you are an Incognito Mode member, you'll receive the email. If you're not an Incognito Mode member, you can sign up at Search Engine show. And if you have any issues, email [e-mail] and yes, we will make a recording of the event available for our Incognito Mode members after the fact. Okay, today, Friday, May 30th at noon. Please bring your own falafel. Thank you. As for this week, we are sharing an episode of a new podcast made by one of our label mates over at Odyssey. I think, just for starters, can you just say your name and what you do?

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah. My name is Courtney Harrell and I am a producer and I host the show what We Spend.

[Host]

Courtney is a veteran podcast producer. She's worked a lot with one of my favorite hosts, Dan Tabursky, both on the series running from cops and 9 12. She is now hosting herself. Her new show is about money.

[Courtney Harrell]

I think about money all the time. I have always thought about money all the time. I would say that I have traditionally been a high anxiety money person where, you know, I started tracking every expense that I made when I was a teenager.

[Host]

And what prompted that?

[Courtney Harrell]

Being afraid I wasn't going to have enough money to do things.

[Host]

Do you recall your teenage expenses?

[Courtney Harrell]

I mean, some of it was just like food.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Courtney Harrell]

But it was like also, I took a tap dancing class whenever I was a teenager. I'm not a big dancer, but like, I remember, like really tracking how much the, like, tap shoes were gonna cost. And I remember, like buying songs on itunes for my ipod.

[Host]

And you would put like the 99 cent expenditure in.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Host]

So it'd be like Chumbawamba. 99 cents.

[Courtney Harrell]

Totally.

[Host]

Each episode of what We Spend follows one person who talks very openly about the money they make and the money they spend. It's like sneaking into someone else's checking account for a week. You meet a woman in Utah clawing her way out from under student loans. You meet a freelance actor planning for the uncertain period between gigs. It's funny, with your show, as I've been listening to it. There's something like literally just hearing someone say not just what they make, but in detail what they spend in a month. I have this feeling of am I hearing something elicit.

[Courtney Harrell]

Oh, the first time I was in an interview and somebody said I got a check and I was like, how much was that check for? And then like shrunk back in my seat. Cause it actually felt like so crazy to be like, no, specifically like, tell me how much you're talking about for all of these things.

[Host]

What makes money such a funny taboo is like, you know, we have like taboos around our bodies and we have taboos around our language and we have taboos around all sorts of parts of the way we think or self presentation. But money is a funny one because somebody might feel ashamed that they don't make enough. They might feel ashamed that they make too much. And depending on who they're in front of, the same person could have both feelings. Like I feel like that's why people don't talk about it.

[Courtney Harrell]

Totally.

[Host]

So this week on Search Engine we're talking about it. We're sharing an episode of what we Spend that I chose to share with you. It's about the financial life of an American trucker, A category of worker we've been thinking about a lot in our office these days. I hope you enjoy it.

[Courtney Harrell]

What other jobs did you work before this one?

[Maxine]

I have worked for City Bus and I came back to trucking, I want to say, four years ago. And even my son, when he was little, I had showed him the truck and he said, my mama driving the truck, I'm like, yeah, the bill's gotta be paid, baby. I saw it as a way to get my bills paid. And it seemed to have some enjoyment about it. I thought, and it does. We just need better pay.

[Courtney Harrell]

This is Maxine. She is a 60 year old long haul truck driver based in North Carolina. How big is the truck?

[Maxine]

This is a 53 foot trailer.

[Courtney Harrell]

Oh, that's really big, right?

[Maxine]

That's it, yes.

[Courtney Harrell]

Do people ask you to honk your horn all the time?

[Maxine]

Sometimes. Especially babies. That I don't mind. I've had babies myself. They're all grown and grandbabies. I don't mind. I love everybody's babies.

[Courtney Harrell]

Maxine took time off for a few other jobs, but she's been trucking off and on for different companies. Since 2004 she's driven routes all over the country. But right now she works what's called a dedicated route, which means she's always delivering home goods for a Specific company through the same stretch of the country. We talked on the phone before she headed out from North Carolina for her next drive to South Carolina and then on to Louisiana. Maxine is one of about three and a half million truckers in the US who literally make the rest of our lives possible. She is an indispensable part of American life. And like a lot of truckers, she is not making enough to get by. Maxine works hard week after week. She barely buys anything and still she can't always pay her bills. And she is not alone. This week we're going to follow Maxine through a week of her life on the road and hear the benefits and the price of life as a trucker. I'm Courtney Harrell and this is what we spend. The first thing to know about trucking is that the pay is confusing.

[Maxine]

You can get paid by the day, by the hour, or by the mile. Yeah, the companies can choose to pay you in that way. I'm paying now. By the mile.

[Courtney Harrell]

By the mile, okay. Companies typically choose how to pay based on the kind of route someone is driving. So hourly pay is more likely for local routes with frequent stops in a smaller area. But most long haul truckers like Maxine are paid by the mile, not hours worked. How much you earn per mile is a calculation of a bunch of factors. What you're carrying, how far you're driving, who you're driving for, and how many years you've been doing this. But no matter your rate, you only earn that if you're moving on the road with a truck full of goods. How much money do you make?

[Maxine]

Okay, so my taxes this year, I think it was 44,000.

[Courtney Harrell]

Okay.

[Maxine]

And it fell from grace. I was making like 1600 a week. I saw my way of being able to get a home and a little bit of land and place to park the truck trailer. But it went from that to my checks. Could be 380, $480 in one week, 500 in one week.

[Courtney Harrell]

What happened?

[Maxine]

That's what I want to know. They say it's the rates and then the loads.

[Courtney Harrell]

Rates and loads. Basically. Maxine told me that these days there's less merchandise for her to carry and she's getting paid less to carry it. That is not just a Maxine problem. The freight market has been in a recession the last few years because when manufacturing, construction and retail markets slow down, there's just less goods to carry, fewer loads, and that means there's less work available, which leads to lower rates.

[Maxine]

And, you know, drivers get together and Talk. If you can imagine, we're in the yard and we're walking outside talking to each other about loads. Like, hey, what's going on with you? What's going with you? We're all saying, you know, the low issue. And this young man that used to work at Walmart, he was like, I might have to go back to Walmart because there's no lows. I got bills, houseport, blah, blah, blah. He was saying. And I prayed about it. I said, lord, I don't know what type of mountains I gotta climb and what's gonna be thrown at me, but I can't keep going from job to job to job. Yeah, they all seem to have problems with loads.

[Courtney Harrell]

According to the most recent Data from the U.S. bureau of Labor Statistics, the average trucker takes home about 57,000 a year. About 10,000 more than Maxine made last year. But remember, they're paid by the mile. So sometimes drivers like Maxine end up on the road for so long waiting for loads to come through that if they were paid hourly, they'd be making less than minimum wage.

[Maxine]

I've had paychecks where it was zero, where I owed the company.

[Courtney Harrell]

Oh, wow.

[Maxine]

Yeah, I got two paychecks in a row like that.

[Courtney Harrell]

Wait, why did. What do you owe the company for?

[Maxine]

It's because I bought $500 advance from the next paycheck so I can make rent. Then say my next pay was only $480, then I owe the company rest of that advance and then it'll go into the next week as well. And if, say, that week was the week that the truck set up and between setting up and not having a load until the following week, then I won't have a paycheck that week either.

[Courtney Harrell]

What do you do when you don't have a paycheck come through or when you get a paycheck? That's like, I owe money, let me tell you.

[Maxine]

I came back to where I was living and sat down with the manager. I never left them alone. The manager of the apartment complex. I always showed up when I told them I was going to show up if I had money or not. And I signed a promissory note to pay within six months, period. And he told me, he said, maxine, we know. I believe you'll pay. You've always told us what was up and was here.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Maxine]

And if I had nothing left, I made sure he got paid and my other bills got paid, my finance company, my credit card. I didn't ditch out on nobody.

[Courtney Harrell]

Maxine owes Money to a finance company because she took out what's called a debt consolidation loan to reduce a bunch of her debt to one payment with a lower interest rate.

[Maxine]

So now the gameplay is I pay off the credit card in the finance company $296. With the finance company up the street, I think I got 1800 left on theirs. And then I have another finance company that I pay $450 to a month, and there's 17,000.

[Courtney Harrell]

Is that debt from regular living expenses or is there a larger expense that it's just from?

[Maxine]

That's from me not making the money that I need.

[Courtney Harrell]

Maxine really doesn't have that many regular expenses. Her health insurance comes out of her pay, and then she spends about 120amonth on utilities, 80amonth on her phone, 645amonth on her car and insurance, and about 80amonth on gas. The biggest expense weighing her down is her rent, which is $1,400 a month for her one bedroom in North Carolina. But after all that, she often has to put her groceries on her credit card.

[Maxine]

I spend quite a bit because of toiletries. You have to have a makeshift bathroom. And see, the thing is, with truck drivers, a lot of times we don't have a bathroom. Or if they have one, they won't let us use it. And we can't stop the restaurants.

[Courtney Harrell]

What do you do?

[Maxine]

You. You gotta make it. Some people buy buckets and make good poetry.

[Courtney Harrell]

I see.

[Maxine]

You know, and it goes into the garbage bags and then tie it up and get it in the garbage can. And now if something happens, like a disaster, like it accidentally spills over the whole floor, now you gotta clean that whole floor up.

[Courtney Harrell]

Oh, God.

[Maxine]

So I buy a lot of paper towels, garbage bags and things like that. Cleaner and things like that. Yeah, like I'm looking at right now, I got. Last night I went and got paper towels and I went to Dollar General and I shopped Dollar General quite a bit. $15 each. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8 rolls.

[Courtney Harrell]

Oh, okay.

[Maxine]

I got it on. On each side, the big giant rolls. Okay. Now I'll go through a whole pack of that in about five days.

[Courtney Harrell]

Whoa.

[Maxine]

See, those are things that people don't know. That's a lot of expense. And you gotta have that each week and you're gonna run out. Yeah, you try to run out on payday.

[Courtney Harrell]

Supplies like Maxine's paper towels aren't typically covered by trucking companies. Some companies do offer per diem's to help with those kinds of travel costs. But there's no law requiring it, so more than half of trucking companies just don't. Despite that, despite the low pay and the loads and the makeshift bathroom, Maxine loves driving her truck. How did you get into it? Initially?

[Maxine]

I kind of. Well, after life hit me, I looked at, you know, you have the B and the C plan.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Maxine]

Because originally as a child, you know, it was medical, the medical field and nursing. I kind of click, click with that, you know, and I, I had the issues. That was horrible throughout my, my youth and I went through a lot of abusive stuff.

[Courtney Harrell]

I'm sorry.

[Maxine]

Oh yeah, he was a monster. But when I got into my adult life and I started looking at, you know, other plans and my father always said, you know, you're really good with driving. My mother said that too. I would, with the church members, especially elderly church members, and get them to church. I'll give you an example. When I started driving buses, I had one of the most toughest instructors to check me and when he told me, he said, maxine, you're putting me to sleep. I was like, dang, I got it. You are. So if I could put your butt to sleep. Amen.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah, I mean, that is impressive. Wow.

[Maxine]

So when I got my chance to learn how to drive the trailers, I did.

[Courtney Harrell]

So you had your parents saying you were a good driver, but what else was it about, about trucking that made you be like, oh, as soon as I get the chance to do that, that's what I'm going to do.

[Maxine]

Just driving makes me calm. Driving calms me down. I feel safe when I'm driving and that's probably from my background, my childhood and teenager and stuff. Just be in a space where I feel comfortable and it worked out.

[Courtney Harrell]

Maxine went to trucking school in Kansas where she learned a bunch of driving techniques that would help once she was out there on her own. Like how to turn no matter how long the wheel span, how to keep control through high grade hills, how to see the road in front of a long nose truck. And she learned a healthy respect for the massive machines, learned to stay vigilant all the time, and she loved it. What is the best part of the job?

[Maxine]

Knowing that you're doing something meaningful. The importance of getting the goods there and, you know, just feeling like that you're doing something good that needs to happen.

[Courtney Harrell]

You're getting stuff to people that they need.

[Maxine]

Right. And getting into the little towns that need things and it's hard for them to get because, you know, having empty shelves, not a, not a happy town.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah, I, I think a lot of us associate driving on, like, big, long, open roads. The way that you do with freedom. Does it feel that way to you?

[Maxine]

You feel that you do. Yeah. You definitely. You feel that you can. You feel that mostly when you first start driving, when you're new to it. That's your first feel like, wow, the freedom of doing this and on a meaningful job. And it can be healing. The road can be actually healing, whatever you've been through in your life or still going through, but everything is fresh and new and it feels so good. And you are meeting people and the food on the road. Truckers seem to know the best places to eat and you can feel that freedom.

[Courtney Harrell]

After the break, we'll dive into Maxine's week.

[Host]

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[Audio Diary Narrator]

Foreign.

[Host]

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[Courtney Harrell]

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[Audio Diary Narrator]

Audio Diary Day 1 I'm recording in Polk, Florida in a company tractor trailer at a rest stop today. I started my morning out as usual. You start your pre trips starting inside the truck and then outside the truck, checking everything out thoroughly. After things are clear, you can get on the road. You start your travel and it was a really good morning for travel. Very nice, very nice drive. I kept driving to around 10. Took a quick break in the Florida Welcome Trucks rest stop off of 75 south which was a very, very, very nice looking rest stop. Very clean looking. I got to talk to a few people as I went about my business. So I didn't hang around long, had to get back, do a 30 minute break and got back on 75 south. And you know cars are going to cut through traffic and cut the trucks off. That's pretty normal. The better thing is not to cut them off and not to get in front of them. Some cars will speed as if they're gonna keep their speed and get in front of the truck and then all of a sudden slow completely down to almost a stop. And they love to do this going downhill. You're carrying maybe £44,000 more, £43,000 more. The last thing you need is a car almost coming to a stop in front of you. Trucks are pretty strong, but they're not perfect and it can't stop on a dime. So you do the best you can with what you got to work with. Anyway, I got the load where it needed to go. I detached from my load. Then I found my empty trailer to attach to and went out to find a parking spot which is not always easy, but I felt very Blessed to find one at a rest stop. And that. That has been my day. I'm still in Florida and I'll be moving out in the morning.

[Courtney Harrell]

Maxine had already bought the food she needed the day before, so her total for day one was $0.

[Audio Diary Narrator]

This is audio diary two. After I got up, I usually kind of check out the scenery. What's going on with movement? Can I move the truck? Is there someone that's going to be blocking me? Then from there we have what's called the EOD in the truck. This is a tablet and some computer tablet. So all of our messages and work information comes through that. And what we do during the day, if we stop, all of our movements and information goes on that. So we can correspond with a company and they can correspond back with us. When you get your GPS set, everything checked out and you're probably personally ready to go. I did all of that this morning and headed toward four east. My goal was to get to Jacksonville area so I can keep moving toward Alabama. I got to a. A stop, Truck stop. This is a little different. This is called a Gas and Go is where I perched tonight. The Gas and Go is like a mini grocery store. They have everything from frozen meats, which I did need for my little freezer in my truck. So I grabbed up just a few cold items for that freezer. Some turkey sausages, some corn. I think I got sweet peas, which I love sweet peas, especially with my rice. And throw those items in the. In the fridge. And I tried their potatoes. They got a little deli in there. They make the best wedge potatoes. Also, I saw a little browning and I almost didn't allow myself to have it, but I did and I'm glad I did. That was a very, very good brownie. So I spent tonight $42.06, which is crazy. But I now have food in the freezer that'll last me a month.

[Courtney Harrell]

Are you in the truck right now?

[Maxine]

I am, yeah.

[Courtney Harrell]

Will you just kind of describe the inside of it to me? Like, what would I see if I was in there?

[Maxine]

Well, when you get in and you'll see the steering wheel, the seats and. And all of the electronic equipments and things. And then there's a bed. I don't have the best hips in back. So I have two mattresses, cubbies in the front and in the back area there's cabinets. I put food in. And I have some cooking things so I can cook a little glance and that's G, A L, A N, Z. Those things are wonderful. Refrigerator and A little oven. I've had the refrigerator oven in here. The refrigerator. I bought the oven. One of the drivers had a glance and he gave me a glance.

[Courtney Harrell]

How do you cook in there?

[Maxine]

Well, I have a little pan. We have an inverter that you can plug it up to. And a buddy of mine gave me a coffee pot that boils water in seconds. So I get my teas. I love teas. I like lemongrass tea. Oh, it's so good. It will put you to sleep so quickly at the end of the night. Has the best stuff.

[Courtney Harrell]

As long as Maxine stays at her current job, she's always driving the same truck. So all these things in her kitchen plus the tea and the extra mattress and an old picture of her son's basketball team make the truck she spends so much time in feel more like her own.

[Audio Diary Narrator]

This is audio diary 3. I started my day pretty much the same. I made the two and a half hour drive from that gas and go to the Alabama 280 West. And that was for the delivery of, of the the freight and I got it there a few days early. So they allowed me to park the trailer and then I could bob tail out. And the part of the truck that's only the truck without the trailer is called a bobtail. So I bobbed tail out. I headed to the Loves. It was about 45 minutes, maybe 53 minutes away through the, through the mountains and those. It had its high points and low drops, you know, lots of curves in the road. But once I got to the Loves I did go buy a Taco Bell and, and get a quesadilla. I spent $8 and inside loves I spent another $8. So that's a total of $16 for the day. I made a park here at the Loves and that would put me into a 34 hour reset time.

[Courtney Harrell]

Your 34 hour reset is the amount of time you're required to take off before starting a new work week. So a driver is only allowed to work 70 hours in an eight day period and then they have to take that break.

[Audio Diary Narrator]

So in this time most drivers like to do their laundry touch base with their families. The Loves have showers and usually they have other little restaurants inside so they can do a little bit of shopping. So I did not have to do that this time because I've already picked up some things during the week that was needed for the truck. That is usually what most drivers do on a 34 hour reset. I will be talking to you tomorrow.

[Courtney Harrell]

Total for day three, $16 at Love's Truck Stop.

[Audio Diary Narrator]

This is audio diary four. This is the end of my 34 hour reset for the 70 hour clock on the truck. So that means I didn't drive today. I went into the truck stop store. I went in there because I have a swelling feet sometimes and it didn't go down. I noticed. So I went in to get something for it. Got a little gel like icy thing you can either throw in the refrigerator or you can heat it. They had it half price around it off just $15. And I got some hydrous drinks. And there was something else because My total was $2026 for the day. I got me a wonderful shower. I got to talk to family and I got to do some music.

[Courtney Harrell]

Maxine loves to listen to music while she drives. Mostly gospel, rock and roll, a little country. But she also loves opera and she loves to sing. So in her downtime she's learning to sing. O mio babino caro.

[Audio Diary Narrator]

I didn't want to get too loud so even though I'm in the truck I don't want to disturb anyone. So I just kept it to a minimum. Draw the curtains. We have like a blackout curtains and I'll draw the curtain sometime. I'll open it because it's sitting behind the curtains all the time. On your time off it's can get dreary so I'll open it so I can see out and things like that. Some truckers mingle. I'm not a good mingler so I. I'll find something to do in my truck. You know, I have some knitting needles here somewhere. Right there. Probably later on. Try to get a little tiny sewing to make something. But that has been it.

[Courtney Harrell]

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[Courtney Harrell]

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[Audio Diary Narrator]

Hi, this is audio diary 5. Now what I want to explain is like the days that I was not moving, you don't get paid for that. If the truck breaks down, you're not paid. It can be just bad equipment, shoddy equipment, or something went wrong. If something happens and you get to a consignee and say they cancel, you don't get paid. You should get paid something because you're in the vehicle, you're on duty as an employee, but you don't get paid. Expenses for us, like gloves, hammers, things like that, that is all on us that you need for your truck. Expenses for GPS that'll run you probably between $412,00. That's all on us. If you're needing parking and there's no more free parking, my experience is between 20 and $30. There's some that's higher and there's some as lower as 17. I don't think I've ever seen it lower than 17. So that money you may or may not get back, a lot of times you won't get it back. There are some companies, I've read that they will pay it back, and that's a toss up. And if you got a load and a truck responsibility, you want to make sure nothing happens to it. So we're caught between a rock and a hard place.

[Courtney Harrell]

Can I ask, like, this part of your job that's like, okay, I don't get paid if all of these things happen with my truck or with the load, how does that make you feel?

[Maxine]

You feel abandoned?

[Courtney Harrell]

Maxine kind of is abandoned. Ever since the 1980s, the trucking industry has become increasingly deregulated. And now there's no law that says trucking companies have to cover expenses like parking or supplies. So it's left up to truckers to figure out how to get through the job and then how to pay for life outside the job. And for Maxine, she can no longer make both things work.

[Maxine]

Once I was going through this over and over and over again, my rent got behind and for a whole year it stayed behind until the point where, yeah, this I could not renew because I didn't make enough money to pay the $1,400 rent.

[Courtney Harrell]

After months of working 14 hour days and waiting, waiting, waiting for her pay to improve so she could catch up on bills, Maxine was forced to make a really hard decision. She decided she had to give up her apartment. After day five, she headed back to North Carolina and started packing up.

[Audio Diary Narrator]

As I look around, I'm not liking this. I'm not liking packing everything and getting all this stuff in storage. It's one of those things that you don't want to have to go through. I've been there before. And when you believe an industry should be stable and it's not, you know, I tell myself everything is for a reason. You know, take this time to pay down all your debt and maybe I could get that land and a little house on there, or build a house on there and I'll have place for a tractor and trailer. Small business, the apartment. I'm always keeping everything up as I go. Thank God it's clean, carpet's clean, still looks new. They won't have a problem with finding someone, but I just hate it, hate going through it. It's daunting, very painful. And the finances is crazy. We need rental caps all across the United States. There's nothing wrong with making a profit. Everybody's for profit. But not so much that you're killing your citizens makes no sense. And the industry, the transportation industry need to pay a living wage. All of us, from trucking to bus, city buses, we need a living rage. No truck driver should be homeless. They need a home, they need land, they need a home. They need a place to put securement for loads that they're going to take out the next day. They need that. I don't believe it.

[Courtney Harrell]

Where did you go stay after, after you left your place?

[Maxine]

I live in the truck.

[Courtney Harrell]

You live in the truck full time?

[Maxine]

I live in a truck full time. And see, let me tell you, that's scary because now you're giving full trust. The company that I came from have quite a bit of truck drivers that are living in their vehicles.

[Courtney Harrell]

How do you all talk to each other about that? What do you say to each other?

[Maxine]

I'll ask them about the pay. When we get together and we start talking about pay, they'll mention that they live in a truck so they could get their bills paid. I've talked to a guy, he was telling me that him and his wife had to give up their home. And I'm like, okay, that's how they're making up for the pay and the non pay. And he told me, he said you might want to try that. I said not voluntarily. That was during that time.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Maxine]

I did not. I did not see that it was gonna happen. And see, from here, it would be on the street. Now you got truck drivers retiring on street.

[Audio Diary Narrator]

This is audio diary 7. I'm in North Carolina, where I live. I'm home. And the only expenditures I did is preparation for the truck when I leave out. I'm hoping to leave out Friday. They have me for Monday, but I need to make some. Some money for this week. So I spent between, let's say, approximately $20, I think the paper towels is. Let's see. Yeah, that's about the only thing that I bought. But I am home, just moving, putting stuff in storage, and it's very scary. I'm so scared about this thing. I love my little apartment, but I gotta go.

[Courtney Harrell]

How much money would you need to make to be able to reliably have a home again?

[Maxine]

I need to go back at least with the. With the economy being the way it is. Between. I'm saying 14 and 16, that should do it. That's not gonna put me a week.

[Courtney Harrell]

If. If the job is paying so far below what you need to meet your basic needs. What is keeping you in this job?

[Maxine]

The trucking industry is one where if you move around too much, you won't get hired. Yeah, that's what I know about it. Yeah, it's. It's a flip of the coin. So you gotta stay stable a few years in something, whether it's good or bad, you know?

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Maxine]

And. And I'm thinking just pay everything off. Yeah, I can see myself doing that without a truck and pay. And pay everything off. Then maybe within months or half a year, things will change back.

[Courtney Harrell]

Are there other jobs besides trucking that you could imagine having more stability in.

[Maxine]

Without training? Like, I've taken up some phlebotomy on the side here, just on my own, just reading. And I have thought about it and I am looking of what can be done. And I've also thought about. There's drivers I've talked to that drive part time and they have a second job. So I'm joshing some things around. I'm a worker and I do the work that I can do. I try to stick to what I know and what I can do.

[Courtney Harrell]

We talked before about the freedom you would feel on the road. Do you still feel that when you're driving now?

[Maxine]

I do, I do. And I look forward to a refreshing feeling. I do want to be able to go home and have a little garden and get on my back porch. I got a lot of southern in me and fall asleep on in the chair. The little couch outside that I would design for myself.

[Courtney Harrell]

When you're talking about your like long term future that you are imagining for yourself, your dream of this land, does that include trucking or is your kind of like long term dream leaving trucking behind?

[Maxine]

It definitely includes trucking because I, I, I could see myself driving less.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Maxine]

As I get older in life and you know, it's going that way. It depends on what life throws at me. I mean I could end up teaching it.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Maxine]

You know, but I don't know what it is about the trucks. I think it's because we were, we live in it, work daily with kind of becomes a part of you, you know.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Maxine]

And leaving it can be like a divorce. You gonna need some counseling.

[Courtney Harrell]

In the weeks after recording the episode, Maxine was still living in her truck and saving money towards the future. But she did get one piece of good news. Her company is getting her a newer tr. Thank you to Alex Leslie at the American Transportation Research Institute and Steve Vaselli. They both helped us understand the trucking industry for this episode. If you want to know more, check out Steve's book, the Big Trucking and the Decline of the American Dream. What We Spend is An Odyssey original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margot Gray and Kristin Torres. Our editor is Jonathan Menhivar. Our executive producers are Maddie Sprung Keyser and Leah Rhys Dennis. Theme song and original music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from APM music mixing by Pedro Alvira. Special thanks to Melissa Akiko Slaughter, Joel Lovell, Jenna W.E. sperman, J.D. crowley, Maura Curran, Josefina Ferrari, Francis Kurt, Courtney, Hillary, Chef Shawn Cherry, Laura Berman and Hilary Van Ornam. If you want to be on what We Spend, we'd love to hear from you. Write us atwhatwe spend podcastmail.com.