Search Engine Podcast
Episode: Talk Easy x Search Engine
Date: October 3, 2025
Host: PJ Vogt
Featuring: Sam Fragoso & Terry Gross

Overview

This special episode features an in-depth, moving conversation between Sam Fragoso (host of Talk Easy) and the legendary Terry Gross, reflecting on 50 years of Fresh Air, the art and ethics of interviewing, personal loss, and the transformative power of storytelling. Originally aired on Talk Easy, PJ Vogt presents this conversation as a master class in how to conduct interviews and as an intimate meditation on work, grief, and personal growth.

1. The Craft of Interviewing (05:44–18:56)

Opening Reflections: Fresh Air’s Influence

• PJ Vogt introduces Fresh Air and Terry Gross, noting her unparalleled preparation and ability to elicit vulnerability from guests:

  “You can feel … she’s getting a public person to reveal something new and genuine about themselves.” (03:10–03:35)

• Vogt describes hearing Sam Fragoso’s interview with Terry Gross as “the platonic ideal of the conversation I’d hoped to have” (04:00) and notes Fragoso’s attempt to “Terry Gross, Terry Gross.”

Terry Gross’s Approach and Philosophy

• Gross reflects on the autobiographical interview and the balance between honesty and myth-making:

  “Some books and some interviews... a little bit of self-mythologizing ... intentionally making your life into the moral of the story … which I really do not believe.” (09:31–10:30)

• She’s skeptical that hard work alone explains artistic success:

  “Working hard helps... But I could work 10,000 hours … I would never be great... It takes more than time.” (10:46)

Preparation and Vulnerability

• Gross hesitates to call interviewing an art, fearing it’s pretentious. (11:22–11:27)
• She describes her childhood, parental mottos, and the influence of negative thinking—“Hope for the best, expect the worst”—on her worldview. (13:31–14:02)

2. Early Life, Writing, and Finding a Path (13:09–35:59)

Childhood and Early Ambitions

• Gross recalls writing lyrics in high school, hearing them sung by basketball players, and her surprise at the affirmation this brought. (18:30)
• She never seriously considered lyricism or writing as a career after discouraging experiences in college. (19:23–20:20)

Independence and Feminism

• Gross describes dropping out of college to hitchhike across the country, partly as a rebellion but also as indecision:

  “I wasn’t thinking for myself and making the decision ... I was thinking, like, which of these two sides am I gonna choose?” (25:59)

• It’s only later, influenced by feminist literature and consciousness-raising groups, that she starts to ask: “What do I really want out of life?” (26:23)

Serendipity Leads to Radio

• After an unfulfilling job, Gross discovers WBFO, an NPR affiliate, and is drawn to radio through a friend’s serendipitous coming out on air. This opens a space for Gross to audition for the feminist show, setting her on her path. (33:41–35:59)

Key Quote:

"If that hadn't happened, who knows what I would be doing now? It would probably not be radio." (35:36)

3. The Power of the Medium & the Early Days of Fresh Air (36:00–43:14)

Discovering the Power of Radio

• Fragoso asks if Gross’s roommate’s on-air coming out made her see radio as a unique space for disclosure. Gross agrees, reflecting on the impersonal intimacy the medium offers. (36:26–37:13)

From Amateur to Professional

• Gross shares how in her first radio shows, she basically read term papers on air—“It was the worst radio you can imagine.” (38:48–39:21)

Turning Points–1978

• Three key things:
  • Danny Miller joins Fresh Air (her first key collaborator).
  • She meets her future husband, Francis Davis, through his writing (and they build a partnership both personal and professional).
  • Bill Siemering, NPR founder, becomes her station manager, and helps take Fresh Air national.
• Gross:

  “It was fun... It's because of Bill that we became a national show. He told NPR we were worthy.” (41:26–42:09)

4. On Interviewing Icons & Shaping the Show (43:35–52:12)

Highlights from Decades of Interviews

Going National and the Evolving Format

• The show's format evolved for syndication—segmenting interviews for station needs, sometimes drawing criticism from early listeners. Gross remembers:

  “Spring arrived and Fresh Air died.” (47:14)

Ethos of Interviewing

• Gross seeks to explore the connection between artists’ lives and their work:

  “What created the person whose work we love and who is that person, do you think?” (48:18)

The English Major's Advantage

• Gross credits her literary background for her ability to “read between the lines” and draw out stories with depth and nuance. (49:03–49:55)

5. Ethics, Boundaries, and Public Shifts (52:16–63:56)

Reflecting on Interview Boundaries

• Discussing the infamous Monica Lewinsky walkout (53:12–58:23), Gross wrestles with the discomfort and ethics of asking intensely personal questions, noting she felt pressure both as a journalist and human being:

  “I had very mixed feelings about having done it. … She wasn’t comfortable with the question. I wasn’t comfortable asking it.” (56:02–57:24)

• Fragoso reflects on how the culture—and interview standards—have shifted, asking Gross if she would do the same interview today.

• Gross:

  “I’m not sure I would have done the interview.” (59:45)

Limits of the Autobiographical Interview

• Gross cautions that even in honest settings, there’s always much a guest withholds or doesn’t see in themselves:

  “There’s so much you do not know about the person you’re interviewing, no matter how forthcoming they may seem.” (63:13)

6. Grief, Partnership, and the Meaning of Work (63:56–76:23)

On Loss—Joan Didion and Personal Grief

• Gross discusses the impact of interviewing Joan Didion about grief, and contrasts Didion’s “magical thinking” after her husband’s death with her own experience losing Francis.

  “For me... what I kept a lot of were his vinyl albums and his CDs... That’s my shrine to Francis. Now I have his ashes, and his ashes are on one of the record shelves. So his ashes are in an urn … surrounded by the music that he loved.” (69:39)

Working Through Grief

• Continuing to work helped Gross cope:

  “It was helpful to me because I don’t think I would have survived if I was just home the whole time… I wanted to make sure that I maintained part of my life that was important to me.” (71:10)

Asking Personal Questions—When It's Family

• Gross acknowledges it is much harder to ask deeply personal questions to loved ones than interviewees, and she backs off when she senses discomfort:

  “…with an interviewee … you feel empowered to ask anything. … With people I’m really close to… it’s a different relationship.” (73:33–74:24)

7. On Legacy, Public Media, and Looking Forward (79:47–96:37)

Eulogizing Francis Davis—Finding the Words

• On writing her on-air tribute:

  “I don’t have the words. … I’m not a great writer. … But part of how I fell in love with him was his words.” (80:34)

Reflections on Work, Retirement, and Meaning

• Gross has no intention of retiring:

  “Not now, no… work really gives my life a focus and meaning. I find my work very meaningful.” (82:56)

Threats to Public Radio

• Gross laments recent funding losses and the ideological mislabeling of public media:

  “If having on people of different backgrounds… that’s a sign of America. It’s not a political position. It’s a sign of representing human beings…” (89:50–90:50)

8. Memorable Moments & Quotes

Maurice Sendak’s Legacy (91:41–96:37)

• Sendak, in a deeply moving appearance, shares:

  “I have nothing but praise now, really, for my life. ... Oh God, there are so many beautiful things in the world which I will have to leave when I die. But I’m ready. I’m ready. ... You are the only person I have ever dealt with who brings this out in me. ... Live your life. Live your life. Live your life.” (91:41–93:45)

• Gross plays this over in her mind to push back negative thought cycles after her husband’s death:

  “So many times I play him back in my head saying, live your life. … My emotions have been very close to the surface since Francis died.” (93:56–94:18)

On What a Good Day Looks Like

• Gross:

  “A good day… is when an interview goes well, or … just working with the people I work with. … To feel content and comfortable in my own body and in my mind. … That’s what I seek.” (96:43–97:54)

9. Final Reflections on 50 Years of Interviews (98:51–101:14)

• Does interviewing others help Terry understand herself?

  “It’s been helpful to me to hear people talk about things that I would be embarrassed to admit to myself… so it’s helped me feel more comfortable within myself and also help me feel that there’s value in sharing stories, even maybe mine.” (99:24)

• On being less “inhibited” as an interview subject:

  “I feel like I’ve been at this long enough that maybe I can say more about myself and say it comfortably.” (100:07)

Sam Fragoso’s Tribute:

• “There would not be one episode of Talk Easy if it weren’t for you.” (101:01)

Terry Gross:

• “Thank you, Sam. It means a lot to me because I admire your work a lot. I think you’re really good.” (101:05)

Key Timestamps

• 05:44: Sam Fragoso welcomes Terry Gross and starts the conversation.
• 09:31: Gross reflects on the value of autobiographical interviews vs. myth-making.
• 14:00: Gross describes family mottos and “negative thinking.”
• 25:57: Gross opens up about not truly deciding for herself in early adulthood.
• 33:41: Gross discovers radio through serendipity.
• 38:48: Gross’s early radio “term paper” phase.
• 41:26: 1978: Meets key collaborators and husband, Francis Davis.
• 47:14: Going national; shift in show’s format draws criticism.
• 53:12: Lewinsky walkout; reflecting on interviewing ethics.
• 69:39: Gross’s altar to late husband — his records and ashes.
• 73:05: Gross on the difficulty of discussing death with loved ones.
• 80:34: Writing and reading her tribute to Francis Davis.
• 82:56: On meaning and not retiring.
• 89:50: NPR’s value and the challenges facing public media.
• 91:41: Profound exchange with Maurice Sendak—“Live your life.”
• 99:24: Has interviewing others helped Gross understand herself?
• 101:01: Fragoso’s on-air tribute to Gross’s influence.

Tone & Atmosphere

The tone is intimate, direct, vulnerable, and at times irreverently funny—reflecting both Sam Fragoso’s admiration for Gross and her own blend of self-deprecation and moral seriousness.
Gross is by turns wary, candid, humorous, and moved. The conversation layers professional reflection with deep personal loss, modeling the possibilities—and limits—of intimacy in the interview format.

For New Listeners

This episode stands out as both a practical course in the art of the interview and a moving meditation on change, ambition, grief, and living authentically. Whether interested in radio, self-discovery, or the changing media landscape, listeners will find lessons on the unguarded moments that define a life’s work.

Notable Quotes

• “There’s so much you do not know about the person you’re interviewing, no matter how forthcoming they may seem.” — Terry Gross (63:13)
• “Live your life. Live your life. Live your life.” — Maurice Sendak (93:45)
• “I have a life. I have friends. I have work that I really treasure. ... I have that in a very profound way.” — Terry Gross (94:51)
• “If having on people of different backgrounds...that’s a sign of America. It’s not a political position.” — Terry Gross (90:50)
• “So it’s helped me feel more comfortable within myself and also help me feel that there’s value in sharing stories, even maybe mine.” — Terry Gross (99:24)

End of Summary