The Rage in the Cage - Search Engine

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Hello Search Engine listeners. Before we start the show, a quick reminder. This Friday, October 17th, which is today, if you're listening to this the morning it comes out at noon Eastern, we're doing a live event where I take your stumpers. Those are unanswerable questions and I will intellectually humiliate myself trying to answer them. I'll be joined by a friend of the show, Kelefasaneh, who will also go down fighting. If you're an Incognito Mode subscriber who subscribed through Search Engine Choir, there'll be a link to this live event in your inbox. And if you miss it, we'll have a live recording of this for our Incognito Mode listeners up next week. If you're hearing this in the morning, there's still time to send me questions. Please do pjvote85mail.com okay, some quick ads and then this week's story. This episode of Search Engine is brought to you in part by Zapier. Over the last few months, everyone's been talking about AI. It's in the headlines, it's on social feeds, and it's dominating conversations. But here's the thing. Talking about trends doesn't make anyone more efficient at work. For that, you need the right tools. You need Zapier. Zapier is how you break the hype cycle and put AI to work across your company for real. With Zapier's AI Orchestration platform, you can bring the power of AI to any workflow so your team can do more of what matters. Connect top AI models like ChatGPT and Claude to the tools your team already uses. Whether that's building AI powered workflows, running an autonomous agent that, setting up a customer chatbot, or something else entirely. You can orchestrate it with Zapier. Zapier is for everyone, tech expert or not. Teams across Rev Ops, marketing, sales, IT, HR and more have already automated over 300 million AI tasks using Zapier. Join the millions of businesses transforming how they work with Zapier and AI. Get started for free by visiting zapier.comsearch that's Z A P I E R zapier.comsearch. you know that moment when you're tracking down a lead and something just doesn't feel right? Maybe it's a source that doesn't seem accurate, or a technical explanation that sounds impressive but falls apart under scrutiny. That's when you need Claude not to give you easy answers, but to help you think through what's actually happening. Let's say you're trying to understand how a particular technology works. Upload the technical papers, ask Claude to break down the methodology. It doesn't just translate jargon. It helps you spot where the logic might be shaky. Or maybe you're researching a company's claims about their breakthrough innovation. Claude can search current sources, cross reference information, and help you see patterns that might not be obvious at first glance. It's built for those who don't stop at something being just good enough. Whether you're investigating emerging tech, following complex business stories, or just someone who finds themselves going down research rabbit holes, Claude matches that energy of wanting to really dig deep into the why. See why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner. Try Claude for free at Claude AI search Engine. Before we get into the story or the question, can you just introduce yourself?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Search Engine – The Rage in the Cage
Date: October 17, 2025
Host: PJ Vogt
Guest: Pablo Torre

Main Theme and Purpose

This episode of Search Engine delves into an unusual sports scandal: an MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) fighter named Mason Lewis used tickling as a tactic during a title match, causing a stir in the world of combat sports. Host PJ Vogt teams up with journalist and sports-show host Pablo Torre to unpack what the incident reveals about MMA, masculinity, sports culture, and the boundaries of acceptable competitiveness. The episode traces the quirky story of ‘the Tickler’ and ‘the Tickly,’ and explores broader questions about American conceptions of masculinity and taboo within sports.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sports as a Lens on America

Pablo Torre’s Philosophy: Sports aren't just about athletics—they reflect politics, race, culture, business, and more.
- “Sports is this giant tent in American life in which you’ll sit next to somebody who does not vote the same way as you...but you are engaged in the same blood feud against another tribe as them.” (PJ paraphrasing Pablo, 04:33)
Liberal arts perspective: Sports offer a unique window into broader social dynamics and American identity.

2. The Scandal: Tickling in the Octagon

The Incident (05:59-10:38):
- Event: April 2024, “Rage in the Cage 24” - Mason Lewis vs. Tim Fargo for the New York State bantamweight title.
- Scenario: Lewis, locked in a grappling hold (head between Fargo’s thighs), resorts to tickling Fargo’s foot—an act widely viewed as ‘unmanly’ or silly in the context of MMA.
- Outcome: The tickle disrupts Fargo’s hold, Lewis escapes and goes on to win.
On Masculinity:
- The move was viewed as a violation of MMA’s hyper-masculine, no-nonsense code.
- “They’re so masculine that they’re always touching each other.” (B/Pablo, 07:33)
- The episode challenges the taboo against introducing “whimsy” into such an “anti-whimsy” space.

3. The Rise and Mainstreaming of MMA/UFC

MMA and UFC Basics (15:44-26:09):
- Overview of the Ultimate Fighting Championship as the leading MMA promotion.
- MMA was long considered too violent (“human cockfighting”) and was illegal in many states until the early 2000s.
- The surge in popularity tracked alongside reality TV (“The Ultimate Fighter”) and personalities like Joe Rogan (see below).
- The sport’s appeal lies partly in its taboo status and visceral displays of masculinity.
- Contrast with boxing: MMA’s use of mixed styles enables more extreme violence (e.g., leg locks, broken bones).

4. Joe Rogan, Podcast Culture, and the Gender Conversation

Joe Rogan’s Role (26:09-32:12):
- Rogan, originally an MMA announcer, helped bring the sport into mainstream internet culture via his podcast.
- Rogan offers men a “different path” of self-improvement based on physicality, fighting, and being “better men.”
  - “There’s no better stress reliever in the world than jiu jitsu or martial arts...” (C/Joe Rogan, 29:34)
- The hosts discuss contemporary anxieties about masculinity, and how martial arts provides both structure and a socially acceptable outlet for aggression.

5. Reactions to the Tickling Scandal

Community Backlash (36:13-43:00):
- Devotees of the sport were less offended by the “unmanly” act itself, than by the sense that outsiders were laughing at MMA and misunderstanding its seriousness.
- MMA fans and officials worried about the sport being reduced to a punchline.
Expert Opinion:
- Interview with Big John McCarthy (MMA rules authority)—insists tickling isn’t significant or effective:
  - “I’ve never seen tickling ever stop anything in a fight.” (E/Big John, 42:21)

6. Talking to the Fighters: The Tickler & the Tickly

The Tickler: Mason Lewis (47:01-51:23):
- Lewis is portrayed as thoughtful and meditative, not a clown or showboat.
- He claims the tickle was a spur-of-the-moment tactic:
  - “I don’t know why I did it. It was just like...I’m just going to tickle to get out of this.” (F/Mason Lewis, 49:57)
- He believes it worked and would use it again: “If that’s what it takes.” (F/Mason Lewis, 50:41)
- Lewis reveals his upbringing as the youngest of six siblings contributed to his mastery of tickling (and susceptibility to being tickled).
The Tickly: Tim Fargo (52:58-54:51):
- Fargo is respectful, not bitter; wants a rematch and would use tickling himself if necessary.
- “It just kind of got me, like, mentally out of it a little bit more than like, actually making me want to let go, because then you’re just thinking, like, this guy’s tickling me in a fight.” (G/Tim Fargo, 54:00)
- Both fighters express willingness for a rematch, with tickling potentially on the table as a tactic.

7. The Broader Meaning: Sports, Hack Moves, and Taboo

Analysis (55:22-57:09):
- The hosts liken tickling to other “hack moves” in sports—tactics that work, but are culturally discouraged because they damage the integrity or seriousness of the game.
- The reaction isn’t so much about effectiveness as about preserving the sport’s image.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Sports as Liberal Arts:
- “Sports is a liberal arts education...I've never lacked for a reason to connect it to politics, culture, business, religion, race.”
  (B/Pablo Torre, 04:33)
On the Tickling Scandal:
- “He begins to tickle the bottom of Tim Fargo's foot.”
  (B/Pablo Torre, 07:55)
- “You see a man in a ThighMaster lock with no way out. I see his little fingies come out. I see him tickle, and I see the fight change.”
  (A/PJ Vogt, 44:48)
On Masculinity and MMA:
- “I feel like I spent the first half of my life feeling so like all the problems that we culturally have with masculinity…I got beat up by men for, you know, 20 years.”
  (A/PJ Vogt, 31:29)
On Competitive Edge in Sports:
- “There is height, there is strength, there is your hormone level, and there is ticklishness.”
  (B/Pablo Torre, 52:27)
On Sports, Hacks, and Taboo:
- “Sports is full of stories in which there are these hacks that get more points, right?...I do think that there might be another incredibly tense climactic moment…And the thing they think of is the thing that Mason Lewis very intentionally decided to do.”
  (B/Pablo Torre, 55:55)

Timestamps for Key Segments

Intro and setup: 03:33–05:24
Tickling incident explained: 05:59–10:38
MMA/UFC origins and culture: 15:44–26:09
Joe Rogan & masculinity: 26:09–32:12
The MMA community’s reaction: 36:13–43:00
Big John McCarthy interview (rules and legality): 40:01–43:39
Interview attempts with “the Tickler”: 44:50–49:07
Mason Lewis interview: 49:07–51:23
Tim Fargo interview (“the Tickly”): 52:58–54:51
Closing thoughts about taboo moves in sports: 55:22–57:09

Conclusion

Despite its apparently lighthearted premise, The Rage in the Cage uses the odd spectacle of tickling in MMA to probe much deeper currents: the evolution and meaning of American masculinity, the boundary between seriousness and silliness in sport, and the uneasy balance of tradition versus innovation. Through engaging conversation, revealing interviews, and self-aware humor, PJ Vogt and Pablo Torre reveal why the story resonated—and ruffled so many feathers—far beyond the octagon.