The Russian Cake Switcheroo

Summary

Episode Summary: "The Russian Cake Switcheroo"

Search Engine dives deep into a peculiar Spotify anomaly involving the renowned American alternative rock band Cake and an unexpected collaboration with a Russian hip hop artist. Hosted by PJ Vogt and featuring co-host K, this episode unravels the mystery behind a listener's baffling discovery and explores broader implications within the music streaming ecosystem.

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1. The Curious Case of Cake's New Song

At the episode's onset, PJ introduces a listener's puzzling experience: while browsing Spotify, they stumbled upon a new Cake track titled "Bye Bye," purportedly featuring a Russian hip hop artist named Pulya Navetru. However, the song starkly contrasts Cake's signature sound, prompting confusion and concern among fans.

Notable Quote:

PJ Vogt [07:04]: "Our listener is a Cake fan and Cake had not put out a new record in years. So he got excited when he saw this notification saying there's a new Cake song out and also that it's a collaboration with this little-known Russian hip hop artist."

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2. Community Reactions and Initial Theories

The episode highlights the immediate backlash and bewilderment on platforms like Reddit, where fans express frustration and doubt the authenticity of the collaboration. Three primary theories emerge to explain the anomaly:

1. Musical Pivot: Perhaps Cake is experimenting with a new genre.
2. Spotify Hack: A security breach causing wrongful song placement.
3. Filing Error: An inadvertent mistake in Spotify’s vast music library.

Notable Quote:

K [08:38]: "Is this a hack?"

---

3. Investigative Journey Begins

Determined to uncover the truth, PJ and K embark on an investigation. They consult Glenn McDonald, a former Spotify engineer with intricate knowledge of the platform's distribution mechanics. Through Glenn, they gain insights into how Spotify handles artist metadata and the challenges in managing artists with identical or similar names.

Notable Quote:

Glenn McDonald [15:13]: "Glenn tried to build a map of all the music genres in the world... analyzing the waveform of the song, but he's also building a multidimensional social map to see how far this genre is from that genre."

---

4. Understanding Spotify's Distribution Challenges

Glenn elucidates that Spotify relies heavily on distributors to upload content, which includes both audio files and metadata. However, the system struggles with artists sharing common names like "Cake," leading to potential misassignments. Despite algorithmic safeguards designed to prevent such errors, glitches inevitably occur, especially with less prominent artists.

Notable Quote:

Glenn McDonald [20:35]: "And so there's a giant trust system that controls all of this, and it is trivially abused or accidentally abused."

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5. The Revelation: A Russian Artist Named Cake

Through extensive research, PJ and K discover that the Russian artist Pulya Navetru collaborates with a local rapper also adopting the name "Cake." This double-layered naming convention resulted in the accidental association on Spotify, where the Russian "Cake" was mistakenly linked to the American band’s profile.

Notable Quote:

Sergey Savalev (Russian Cake) [37:08]: "In my childhood, a lot of people called me just Brownie... so that's how I became Cake."

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6. The Aftermath and Resolution

Once the mix-up is identified, Sergey (the Russian Cake) attempts to rectify the situation with Spotify. Given the geopolitical tensions, especially post-Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Spotify had ceased operations in Russia, complicating direct communications. Nonetheless, after persistent efforts, Spotify rectifies the error, ensuring that the Russian collaboration no longer appears on the American band's page.

Notable Quote:

PJ Vogt [43:04]: "So both sides were like, please fix the giant infinite library of music, Spotify, which is fixable."

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7. Broader Implications and Insights

The episode extrapolates this incident to larger trends in digital content distribution:

• Algorithmic Limitations: Even sophisticated algorithms can't entirely eliminate human-like errors, especially in vast databases.

• Cultural Connectivity: The accidental collaboration underscores the unpredictable ways global audiences and creators intersect.

• Attention Hijacking: Drawing parallels to how artists might tap into existing fanbases by leveraging similar names or identities.

Notable Quote:

PJ Vogt [24:26]: "It's really just being good about attention. It's understanding that there's something people are already paying attention to... you may be able to refract some of that attention and use it yourself."

---

8. Closing Thoughts

PJ and K wrap up the episode by reflecting on the intricate dance between technology, culture, and human error. They emphasize the importance of meticulous data management in the digital age and celebrate the serendipitous connections that emerge from global connectivity.

Notable Quote:

K [44:57]: "Our plan has worked, pj, because you and I are sitting here just two pawns talking about Russian Cake."

---

Conclusion

"The Russian Cake Switcheroo" serves as both a captivating narrative and a cautionary tale about the complexities of digital music distribution. Through diligent investigation and engaging dialogue, PJ and K illuminate the unforeseen consequences of a globally connected yet technologically intricate world.

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Credits: Search Engine is a presentation of Odyssey and Jigsaw Productions. Created by PJ Vogt and Shruthi Pinnamaneni, produced by Garrett Graham and Noah John. Fact-checking by Mary Mathis. Theme composition by Armin Bazarian. Additional production support by Sean Merchant and Kim Koopel.

Transcript

[PJ Vogt]

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[K]

Are we doing an intro?

[PJ Vogt]

I don't have an intro. No, I'm just. I can say hi, K. Do you.

[K]

Want me to do a whole thing or no?

[PJ Vogt]

If you have somehow prepared a thing, you can always do a thing. Do you have a thing? You don't even know why you're here. How can you have a thing?

[K]

Well, the thing about the podcast world, pj, is it can be kind of competitive.

[PJ Vogt]

It can be very competitive.

[K]

And I don't know if you're aware of this, but that kind of competition can cause hurt feelings. Certainly it can cause people to grow unhappy, resentful even.

[PJ Vogt]

Are you feeling those feelings?

[Glenn McDonald]

No.

[K]

But I appreciate the fact that although you have your own podcast that you're working on, you don't feel so competitive that you're not willing to invite the host of a competing podcast. Are you a search engine engine?

[PJ Vogt]

Search Engine Engine, the show that has been launched within my show and apparently is now competing with my show.

[K]

That's right.

[PJ Vogt]

This podcast Kalifa hosts a competitor to Search Engine called Search Engine Engine, does in fact exist. There's one episode so far published behind our Paywall, which means it's only available to our Incognito mode listeners. But that was not why K was here today. K knows more about music than anybody I know. He has a book called Major Labels that somehow covers the entire evolution of pop music in a fun and breezy way. If I have a question about music that I can't answer, he's the person I always go to. Okay, we got a listener question that I wanted to ask you about. I'm gonna lead up to that question first to set a little bit of context. I think I know the answer to this question, but just in case there's a random lacuna in your musical knowledge. Are you familiar with the band Cake?

[K]

Yes, I am.

[PJ Vogt]

How would you describe their music?

[K]

Spritely indie rock with kind of cock vocals over the top.

[PJ Vogt]

How do you. Do you like them or not like them?

[K]

I like them a little bit. Sacramento, if I'm not mistaken.

[PJ Vogt]

Is that where they're from?

[K]

I think so, yeah. The big hit is A Short Skirt Long Jacket. Is that correct?

[PJ Vogt]

Yeah, with a short skirt and a long jacket.

[K]

I remember in the early 2000s, I think there was crossover with this Brooklyn band called Chick Chick Chick. A guy who played in Chick Chick Chick, I think had played with Cake and then actually later ended up playing with LCD sound system.

[PJ Vogt]

There was a saying before GBS was widespread where they used to study the brains of London cabbies and how there was like a part of their brain that either lit up more or maybe had grown more. I'm sure that's wrong, but it was just sort of a scientific marvel. How the human mind could expand to contain knowledge. And when you talk about music in this way, I feel like I'm talking to a London cabbie in 1997.

[K]

Isn't it possible that brains don't actually expand and that it's zero sum?

[PJ Vogt]

That you're deleting a lot of stu?

[K]

Yeah, that you'd be horrified by all the stuff that's not in my brain.

[PJ Vogt]

Your kids, birthdays. Okay. Are you familiar with the hip hop artist? And I may mispronounce this. Polyane Vetru. No, Russian hip hop. I don't know how well you know Russian hip hop.

[K]

No. You could be making this up just to trick me and get me to say like, oh, yeah, first album's great and then it turns out it's fake.

[PJ Vogt]

No, no, no. Real band. Real band. Real. Not an entirely popular group, but a group that does perform music.

[K]

I have a certain linguistic prejudice when it comes to hip hop, so my knowledge of non anglophone hip hop is almost non existent.

[PJ Vogt]

Have you listened to any German hip hop?

[K]

Not voluntarily.

[PJ Vogt]

Better than you'd think. Anyway, our listener is a Cake fan and Cake he knew, had not put out a new record in years. So he got excited when he saw this notification saying there's a new Cake song out and also that it's a collaboration with this little known Russian hip hop artist. I just want to play the song. It's called Bye Bye. What do you hear?

[K]

I hear a flow that reminds me a little bit of Bone Thugs in harmony, the 808 kicks, and some production that, you know, sounds a little bit like Chronic era, like west coast hip hop. Right. It has those zap derived synthesizers. Maybe.

[PJ Vogt]

What else do you hear?

[K]

Like I said, I haven't really listened to much German hip hop, so I.

[PJ Vogt]

Don'T know Russian hip hop.

[K]

Oh, Russian hip hop. Excuse me. So I don't know how it fits into the Russian hip hop landscape.

[PJ Vogt]

You had not pointed out that you hear a lot of Cake's influence in this collaboration.

[K]

No, no. If you had not mentioned Cake and you asked me to list 500 groups that might have influenced this, Cake would not be among them.

[PJ Vogt]

So our listener had been curious about why Cake was releasing such an uncake like song. And our listener was not the only person wondering about this. Kate, there's this website called Reddit where fans of something, whether it's a band or a podcast can gather to talk about how that thing used to be better in the past.

[K]

Reddit, you say, I try not to.

[PJ Vogt]

Go and on the cake subreddit people are losing their minds about this new song. Somebody says, I'm just gonna read this quote. Hi fellow fans. Does anyone know the story of this song just released on Spotify, but definitely doesn't sound like the Cake I know. Does anybody have any information about it for me? Or about the other band? Pulia Navetru? I can't find anything with my meager Google skills. If only there was a podcast for this. He didn't say that. Someone else chimes in. Just like to say one thing. What the actual fuck is this song? It's in a different language. And then the third person says I'm so confused. Is this a hack?

[K]

Is this a hack?

[PJ Vogt]

Which basically it seems like there's three possible theories for what has happened here. One, which I would like to be true, but I'm pretty sure is not true, is just that Cake was like we're pivoting.

[K]

Musical makeover.

[PJ Vogt]

Musical makeover. The other possibility is that the Spotify had been hacked. The third is just that Spotify had made some very strange filing error, which you would think they would be set up to not do, but we wanted to investigate. So we wanted to know if you could look into this.

[K]

That sounds like exactly something I can do. It involves messing around on Spotify, you say, yeah, I think I was built for this.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay, great. After the break, K gets some answers. This episode is brought to you in part by bilt.

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[PJ Vogt]

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[PJ Vogt]

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[PJ Vogt]

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[K]

Where are we? Pj?

[PJ Vogt]

What I recall is that a listener had sent in a question. They went to Cake's Spotify page. They hit play on what seemed like surprising because Cake is a relatively quiet band, but there's a new Cake song they hit play. Doesn't really sound like a Cake song. Sounds like Russian rap music by this artist named Pulya Novetru Polyat. True. And the question was kind of like, obviously something is wrong here. Is it that Polya Nvetru has gamed the system and hijacked Cake's page. Is it an error? Is it some third stranger option?

[K]

Is it a very unlikely collaboration?

[PJ Vogt]

You never know.

[K]

Maybe a member of Cake is playing almost inaudible guitar on this track.

[PJ Vogt]

That is the outcome I would most hope for.

[K]

Secret Cake.

[PJ Vogt]

Secret Cake. So you looked into this?

[K]

Yes.

[PJ Vogt]

What did you find?

[K]

Okay, so the first thing we did, we wrote to the American band Cake. We emailed their manager, who confirmed that, yeah, he had received some questions and complaints from American Cake fans. He said this was not a real collaboration, which we expected. So instead, we decided to look at the Spotify side of this. We talked to a guy who actually used to work at Spotify. Hi, Glenn.

[Ivan]

Hello.

[K]

How are you? Could I start by just having you say your name? And to level set, what's the last song you listened to on purpose?

[Ivan]

My name is Glenn McDonald and the last song I listened to is a fantastic cover of the new Model army song Vengeance by the gothic metal band Crippled Black Phoenix. It's really good.

[Unknown]

I believe in justice I believe in vengeance I believe in getting the bastard Getting the bastard, Getting the bastard.

[K]

Now, this is one of. One of the many things I learned from your book is that you love goth metal covers of popular songs.

[Ivan]

I do indeed.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay.

[K]

And so Glenn, like me, is like a real music nerd. I would argue he's more of a music nerd than I am, and I don't say that lightly.

[PJ Vogt]

I've never heard you say that about anybody. So, like, literally, when you were like, sort of the handshake that people that don't do sports do, which is like, what do you listen to? Where do you find that? Oh, I like this. Like, when you were doing that with him, he knew bands you didn't know.

[K]

He knew, like, genres I didn't know, really. Glenn tried to build a map of all the music genres in the world, which involved coming up with new names for new genres based on clusters of listeners that he was finding. And he's analyzing the waveform of the song, but he's also building, like, a multidimensional social map to see, like, oh, people who like this thing also like this thing. Here's how far this genre is from that genre.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay.

[K]

Glenn doesn't work at Spotify anymore, but he used to be one of the lead engineers there, and when he was there, he had access to all kinds of data and information, and he also had his hands on all the different levers trying to make Spotify better at recommending new music for its users.

[Ivan]

You know, most people most of the time want to Hear the stuff they like. I think of listening in these three concentric circles. And the middle circle is my stuff. Most of the time I listen to my stuff. And then the second circle is I've become slightly bored with what I know of my stuff, and I want more of my stuff. Not radically different stuff, just like new albums by the same bands, new bands in the same genres, just like some new songs, but they're the kind of songs that I already like. And then the third circle is I want to discover something new. I want to see what else there is in the world. The problem is if you encounter unexpected things when you think you're being given things that you already like, they sound like errors.

[PJ Vogt]

Right.

[K]

And so part of what Spotify does is it tries to show people new music that they might like that's different from music they're listening to, but not too different. Otherwise they're going to be unhappy and maybe turn off the app. And so the search engine listener who wanted to hear Cake and ended up hearing Russian rap had like, the bad version of the Spotify experience. This is not what's not supposed to happen on Spotify, as you hear something that sounds like it has no relationship to the thing you actually wanted to hear. So I thought Glenn might be able to explain how this could possibly happen. So I actually read him the question from our listener. So we here at Search Engine International corporate headquarters got an email from a listener who understands that when we say no question too small, we really mean it. Can I read it to you? Yeah. All right, so here's the email. I went to listen to the band Cake, and they had a new song on Spotify. Their first release in like 20 years or so. I think it was actually maybe 13 years or something. And it was the least Cake sounding song ever. It sounds like Russian rap and bad Russian rap. You know what they say, everyone's a critic, right?

[Ivan]

Yeah.

[K]

The band they apparently collaborated with is Puglia Navetru. I think they Cake may have been hacked. But how can that happen? Wouldn't this be an easy fix? So confused.

[Ivan]

Oh, this is a great question.

[K]

And so here's what Cake sounds like.

[Ivan]

Reluctantly crouched at the starting line Engines pumping and thumping in time the green light flashes the flags go up Churning and burning they yearn for the cup they deftly maneuver and muscle for rank fuel Burning fast on an empty tank.

[K]

Reckless and wild and then here is Pulja Navetru featuring Cake. So there we have it. Puglia Navetru featuring Cake. That Track has about 76,000 listeners, which is less than anything from the last Cake album, but more than anything else from Puglia Navetru. Is this an honest mistake?

[Ivan]

So the way you probably imagine the streaming music business works, if you are not in the streaming music business, but you have done other things online, is that artists upload things to Spotify. Like you would upload your wedding video to YouTube. And thus, if something is on Cake's page that probably isn't Cake, they must have been hacked. And the amazing truth is the system that the whole music business runs on is like orders of magnitude less sophisticated than that.

[K]

So Glenn explained that Spotify doesn't work the way YouTube works. YouTube, you can put whatever you want on there, but Spotify, you, pj, can't just record a song, or in your case, a rap, and upload it to Spotify. Generally, you need a middleman. You need what's called a distributor.

[Ivan]

Everything gets to streaming services via distributors, and those distributors send giant bulk files, audio with XML metadata. And artists can be identified with unique IDs, but don't have to be. And thus, especially from Mindy, distributors are often just referred to by name. So Spotify probably gets 1000 files a day that have names that just say the artist's name is Cake, or just like a thousand short common word names, and then has to figure out, okay, of all the artists named Cake, of which there are probably 100, which one is this?

[K]

But he said that even with this middleman system, which greatly limits the amount of content that's uploaded to Spotify, it still isn't feasible to, like, review every song before it gets uploaded. There's still, like, way too much stuff.

[Sergey Savalev]

Got it.

[Ivan]

And so there's a giant trust system that controls all of this, and it is trivially abused or accidentally abused. And so when I was still at Spotify, I spent quite a bit of energy that I honestly didn't want to spend trying to guard against this, making tools that would look at the week's upcoming releases and look at patterns of, oh, that's funny. Cake has never had a release from that distributor before.

[K]

He even had some tools, including some algorithmic tools that he could check and be like, oh, the WAV file of this audio recording doesn't actually look like the way a WAV file of Cake would usually look like.

[PJ Vogt]

So it's almost algorithmically or through machine learning or whatever, doing something similar to how your credit card company is like, oh, it's weird that all of a sudden you're trying to use your Chase card in North Dakota, You've never been there and you're buying 30 boxes of diapers. You've never bought any baby stuff. Like, we think something's going on. Like, they're doing a similar.

[K]

Either you have a secret family or there's some sort of fraud.

[PJ Vogt]

I love my family in North Dakota. But like, they're doing this kind of. Like, it's a combination of. You're hoping that the distributors do some of the moderation work for you, and they're gonna do a little bit of this looks fishy checking. But it's not a wild West. But it's like a under regulated west.

[K]

Semi Wild West.

[PJ Vogt]

Semi wild West. So, okay, just to recap, individuals are not uploading their own tracks. Tracks are uploaded by distributors. Spotify is doing some work to algorithmically prevent tracks from being attached to the wrong artist.

[K]

Yeah, but there end up being mistakes, inevitably. And when there are mistakes, Spotify has to go in manually and correct them.

[Ivan]

These things are easy to fix individually. So as soon as it happens, people will begin complaining. And those complaints will eventually irritate somebody enough to spend the 30 seconds it takes to move that supposed cake song onto cake number 93.

[K]

So Glenn's saying that, yeah, inevitably there end up being mistakes. Smaller artists get labeled as if they were bigger artists. And it doesn't necessarily mean that the smaller artist is trying to do something sneaky. However, it's also possible that it could be strategic. Pj, do you know what Taylor Swift's first ever single was?

[PJ Vogt]

No.

[K]

It was a country song called Tim McGraw.

[PJ Vogt]

Oh, really?

[K]

Yes. And it was about people who fell in love. And she's saying, when you hear Tim McGrath, I hope you think of me.

[Unknown]

You think Tim McGraw. I hope you think of me.

[PJ Vogt]

But also. But also, he's very popular at the moment.

[K]

He's very popular. She's a new artist.

[PJ Vogt]

And so when people search. Tim McGraw.

[K]

Yeah. And even. Not even just in terms of searching, in terms of. She's associating herself.

[PJ Vogt]

Yes.

[K]

With Tim McGraw. It goes back even before the digital era. In 1964, there was a group called the Carefrees who made it to number 39 on the pop chart with a song called we love you, Beatles.

[Unknown]

We love you Beatles oh, yes, we do we love you Beatles and we be true when you're not mean to us we're blue oh, beetles, we love you yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[K]

Which was an attempt to cash in on Beatlemania.

[PJ Vogt]

Yeah. And it's funny when people do stuff like that, like when you say Taylor Swift's first single was a song called Tim McGraw. The phrase that sort of sings into my mind unbidden is, oh, Taylor Swift's good at the Internet. And a lot of people who are cultural workers, cultural artists who make stuff that goes online, which is many different types of people. One of the things that I find myself noticing, admiring or critiquing is just how good are they at the Internet? But this point about the Carefrees is no, it's really just being good about attention. It's understanding that there's something people are already paying attention to. And if you like align with this, diss this, like get near this, you may be able to refract some of that attention and use it yourself.

[K]

Yes, exactly right. But I think you're right, pj, in that the modern era where people are listening to music by like typing out the name online has actually led to more of this. Yeah, there's a Dutch producer, Sam Felt, and he had a big hit in 2019 called Post Malone.

[PJ Vogt]

Do you think that that annoys Post Malone?

[K]

Well, that's a good question. One answer to that can be found. Last year there was a singer called Jordan Attatunji who had a huge record called Kalani, which is the name of an RB singer.

[PJ Vogt]

Yeah.

[K]

Apparently she was not annoyed because she hopped on the remake.

[Unknown]

I like the way your body is. Is that too obvious? Okay. I like your cockiness for being confident. You bad, just like Kaylani is. Just like Kaylani is. You bad, just like Kaylani is. Just like Kaylani is.

[K]

You can't be too proud to get some of the attention. One of my favorite examples of this was you're familiar with the punk band Jawbreaker.

[PJ Vogt]

Yes.

[K]

There was a short lived band called Jawbreaker Reunion that is so devious because.

[PJ Vogt]

Jawbreaker had broken up.

[K]

Yes.

[PJ Vogt]

People were wondering if there'd be a Jawbreaker reunion.

[K]

And if you put Jawbreaker Reunion on the flyer, maybe people look twice.

[PJ Vogt]

They're really. I mean you're really. It's like posting misleading photos of yourself on a dating site. Like you will bring people in. But what happens next seems unenjoyable for you, the person who has catfished them.

[K]

Well, sure. Although as you see from actual dating sites, like if people feel like the alternative is no one looking at their profile at all. Yeah, maybe, you know, maybe you try to get the foot in the door and you worry about the mix up a little later.

[PJ Vogt]

But back to our story about this Russian hip hop artist and whether this particular instance is musical catfishing. I mean, it sounds like there's at least a possibility that this was a kind of attentional hijacking.

[K]

Yes. And this is a venerable tradition in music when it comes to Pulia, Novetru and the Russians, I think. B.J. you and I talk offline often.

[PJ Vogt]

Yes.

[K]

And something that people should know is that when we talk offline, we usually pause our conversation every 30 minutes or so to check our privilege. So I thought it would be a good idea to do a privilege check, please, right now. P.J. where were you born?

[PJ Vogt]

Haverford, Pennsylvania.

[K]

Haverford, Pennsylvania. Proud American. I was born in Birmingham, England, but at the age of five, I moved to this country and I became a naturalized citizen when I was, I think, 19, just in case anyone from the government is listening. And so we are both Americans.

[PJ Vogt]

Yeah.

[K]

We have some American privilege. And I think it's fair to say that sometimes people in America harbor prejudices about people in Russia.

[PJ Vogt]

It's true. It's a very acceptable place to harbor prejudices against.

[K]

And I think part of what's happening with this story is that, like, there's this track uploaded to the Internet by a Russian. Eyebrows raised. Maybe it's a scam.

[PJ Vogt]

You're totally right. It's weird. I hadn't noticed it in myself, but, yes, I am more likely to assume in a situation which the facts are unclear, that a Russian person may be interfering with American due process. A very specific kind of prejudice.

[K]

Check your privilege, P.J.

[PJ Vogt]

Thank you, K. We're going to take a short break. When we return, K is going to investigate some Russians. This episode is brought to you in part by Mint Mobile. Do you say data or data? Well, at my house, we say data. And for the longest time, I thought paying a fortune on my monthly data plan was just normal. That was until I found out about Mint Mobile and their premium wireless plans that start at just 15 bucks a month. Say bye bye to your overpriced wireless plans. Jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages, Mint Mobile is here to rescue you. All plans come with high speed data or data, your choice. And unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts. Ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for $15 a month. No matter how you say it, don't overpay for it. Shop data [e-mail] search that's mintmobile.com search. Upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to 15 bucks a month new customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

[Glenn McDonald]

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[PJ Vogt]

This episode is brought to you in part by LinkedIn. As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24 7, so when you're hiring you need a partner that grinds just as hard as you do. That hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free, share with your network and get qualified candidates that you can manage all in one place. We recently hired for a new position at Search engine and we used LinkedIn super easy. If you want to post your job, LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and then quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights. Either post your job for free or pay to promote. Promoted jobs get three times more qualified applicants. At the end of the day, the most important thing to your small business is the quality of candidates and with LinkedIn you can feel confident that you're getting the best. Based on LinkedIn data, 72% of small businesses using LinkedIn say that LinkedIn helps them find high quality candidates. Post Your job for [e-mail] pjsearch that's LinkedIn.com pjsearch to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Welcome back to the show. So Kalava and the search engine team had spent some time on Russian social media, including this website, Vkontakta, which is sort of like the Russian version of Facebook. I'm gonna let Kay take it from here.

[K]

So we had to voyage into the Russian Internet into Vkontakta, and Garrett and a researcher found Pulya Nevetru, turns out to be a Russian guy. And also found a friend of his that he sometimes works with who seems to be known as Cake. I see two guys in Russia that love hip hop.

[PJ Vogt]

Do they make music together?

[K]

Yes, they do.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay, this is starting to point in a different direction. And so when you say found, like, found social media profiles out.

[K]

Yeah. In fact, I have Cake's Instagram profile right here.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay.

[K]

Here, I just sent it to you.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay. Cake Tortic.

[K]

His real name is Sergey.

[PJ Vogt]

Sergey Savalev. The first picture I see. Okay, so the first picture I see, it's like, a Russian dude. He's got a thin mustache and a beard and what looks like long hair under a hoodie. And he's standing in this bucolic scene outside of. Are these rams or yaks?

[K]

I don't know. I was like, is that an alpaca?

[PJ Vogt]

They're furry animals with big longhorns on them. And then the music coming in is Kendrick Lavar Pride. And the caption is, I can't fake humble just because your ass is insecure.

[K]

Which is a Kendrick Lamar quote, I assume.

[PJ Vogt]

So there's just something so funny about, I don't know, American rap reaching someone kind of dressed in a slightly American rap inflected style in a place that is so foreign in my head. I might be wrong, but I'm like, it's a Russian yak farm. But the message is transmitting and being received. There's something that brings me an adrenaline shot of happiness to my heart from that.

[K]

Well, yeah. And it's like. It's partly what we've been talking about, which is our weird connectivity where, like, Kendrick Lamar doesn't know that his song is necessarily gonna reach this guy Cake in Russia.

[PJ Vogt]

Yeah.

[K]

And certainly Cake doesn't know that his song is gonna reach us here in New York.

[PJ Vogt]

Yeah. And it's the dream of everybody that they'll reach a lot of people, but they don't think about what a lot of people means.

[K]

Right.

[PJ Vogt]

Like, a lot of People means like the guy at the yak farm.

[K]

And the thing about this kind of connectivity is it's not just that we could see his Instagram page. We can maybe actually talk to him. Hi, Cake. Good to meet you.

[Unknown]

Hi. Yeah, me too.

[K]

Thanks so much for talking with us. I asked Garrett if English was okay, but it sounds like English is great.

[Unknown]

I think. Yeah. Yeah, I think. Yeah.

[K]

I don't speak any Russian, so that's good. So, yeah, we. We got him on a video call.

[PJ Vogt]

What did the Russian Cake have to say for himself?

[K]

Well, we talked about music, of course. Tell me, when you were growing up, were you listening to a lot of Russian hip hop? Were you listening to American hip hop? What kind of music was influential to you?

[Unknown]

All my life I listened to American music because when I was, I don't know, six years old, maybe seven, my father said to me that, yo, Russian music is not so good, but you can listen American music. And he gave me some CDs with Nirvana songs.

[K]

Nirvana, yeah.

[Unknown]

And all my childhood, I listened to Kurt Cobain. So I love him very much. I love ACDC also. But when I grow up, like, I'm 15 years old or something like that, I start listening to Kendrick, Travis, Kanye. So, yeah, I listen a lot of American hip hop.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay.

[K]

I wondered probably what you're wondering, right, which is like, the name Cake, does that come from the 2006 Lloyd Banks featuring 50 Cent Track Cake? I need the Cake.

[PJ Vogt]

And no.

[K]

No, it doesn't.

[PJ Vogt]

Oh, we're old.

[K]

It comes more from him being a kid who liked Cakes.

[Unknown]

But it's a really strange story. In my childhood, a lot of people called me, like, just Brownie. I don't know why, but it's a fact. One day, I just eat in restaurant in small Russian town named Yelets, the cafe named London. So in the menu I see, like, Cake, Brownie. Oh, it sounds cool, but it's too long. I will take just Cake. And so that's how I become Cake.

[K]

So that is how Sergei got his nickname. And the members of the American band Cake might be kind of heartbroken to discover.

[PJ Vogt]

Oh, no.

[K]

That the Russian rapper Cake had never heard of them.

[PJ Vogt]

I feel like if I were them, it would, like, slightly wound me. Like, not even once. Not even one time. But you know what? Having talked to teenagers about music, rock music does not exist to them. It's like trying to get them into disco. It's like, totally. They're not interested in anything that has a guitar.

[K]

So Sergei told us that he got a laptop from his parents for his 18th birthday. And he started messing around on the computer making hip hop tracks and decides to collaborate with this kid he met at school who's also 18 and his name is Ivan, or as he's known on the Internet, Puglia Navetru.

[PJ Vogt]

Ah.

[K]

Can I show you a Pulia Navetru video on TikTok, Please.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay.

[K]

How would you describe what you're seeing?

[PJ Vogt]

A very, very young looking teenager. Like, he looks. I don't know if he's going to listen to this, but he looks for like 15. He's got a black T shirt and kind of Mark Zuckerberg gold chain, clean cod. And then this. I think they go to his collaborator. Is that Cake?

[K]

I think that's Cake.

[PJ Vogt]

I recognize him from the Yak farm. But they're just like rapping in street somewhere in Russia.

[K]

But at this point in the story, pj, it's easier for you to recognize Russian Cake than American Cake, isn't that true? If I showed you a picture of a guy and tried to guess which one was the lead singer of American Cake, you would have no idea, Right?

[PJ Vogt]

I would have no idea. My mentality is, when it comes to.

[K]

Russian cake, you are one of America's leading experts.

[PJ Vogt]

Is this what it feels like to be you?

[K]

Only on very good days, pj. Anyway, Pulia Novetru and Cake upload their track, they give it to their distributor, the distributor puts it on Spotify. And they see some people are listening to it, which is good, very good. And they're excited. But then they realize there's a problem.

[PJ Vogt]

Right.

[K]

It's linked to this band they've never heard of.

[PJ Vogt]

And so were they, like, at first they're excited because it's doing numbers, and then they're disappointed because it's slightly a glitch.

[K]

Yeah. I don't think it was like exploding with the numbers, but it was more like, yes, they liked the idea that it was getting some exposure, but there was like, you know, we actually are trying to maybe have a career. We gotta fix this issue.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay.

[K]

And they reached out to the distributor. Distributor's kind of like, not our problem. You guys need to take it up with Spotify. And there's a problem at that point.

[PJ Vogt]

Why?

[K]

Because I don't know if you recall this. In 2022, there was some international news involving Russia.

[PJ Vogt]

Yes.

[K]

So in the aftermath of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Spotify closed its Russian office. And then shortly afterwards, Russia passes a law that makes it illegal to disparage the Russian military.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay.

[K]

And in the aftermath of that, Spotify blocks its service in Russia altogether.

[PJ Vogt]

We need to win. Russia made it illegal to disparage the Russian military. Spotify was like, we're standing up for free expression. No Russian can listen to music.

[K]

Well, I think maybe part of the idea was there might be legal liability.

[PJ Vogt]

Oh, it's not.

[K]

If you're streaming content into a country that has that kind of a censorship law.

[PJ Vogt]

I see their fear is like the same porous system that allows Cake the rapper to end up as Cake the rocker could mean that some Russian group could put up something called, like, fuck the Generals. And next thing you know, some Spotify executive can't vacation in St. Petersburg.

[K]

Well, actually, as you. I don't know if you're aware of this, pj, Spotify, it's not just music. They're actually involved in the podcast business too.

[PJ Vogt]

Oh, really?

[K]

Yeah. I don't know if you. I don't know if you're familiar with that.

[PJ Vogt]

Hadn't seen.

[K]

So, yes, if you're Spotify, Yes. The idea of, are you going to monitor all your podcasts for anti Russian military content? So for whatever reason, they jump out of the market. They're like, yeah, we're not operating in Russia. So Russian Cake is in this situation where he's trying to fix the mistake. It's proving pretty hard to do because Spotify doesn't officially exist in his country. And so eventually he tracks down a Spotify person in America and tells them, hey, there's this issue. Yeah, they have to contact someone like Glenn, like Glenn's successor. Some of those people that are working there whose job it is to get this all figured out.

[PJ Vogt]

And so do they try?

[K]

Yeah, they try and eventually they do it. We actually reached out to Spotify and a spokesperson told us that when the issue was brought to their attention, they, quote, contacted the provider and got it fixed, making sure the song was correctly placed. So right now, if you're a fan of the American band Cake and you go to their Spotify page, you. You will no longer see a collaboration track with Puglia Nevetru.

[PJ Vogt]

But so it's so funny, I would assume that this was all, like, in my mentalization, the way I imagine this all going down is the American rock band Cake was like, yo, you gotta get this off our page. It was actually the people who were getting more attention than they normally would because it wasn't attention from the fans they were trying to reach. They proactively said, like, hey, our music doesn't belong there.

[K]

I believe it was actually both. So I Communicated with Cake's manager who said like, yeah, this was a big pain in the ass.

[PJ Vogt]

I see. Okay. So both sides were like, please fix the giant infinite library of music, Spotify, which is fixable.

[K]

I think at this point. There are. There's a lot of Cakes. I believe there are 15 cakes I found with a quick search on Spotify, who all have different artist accounts.

[PJ Vogt]

That's gonna be more and more of a problem.

[K]

Well, especially with a name like Cake.

[PJ Vogt]

Yeah.

[K]

Nice four letter word, something. It's an appealing word. So it's not that shocking that there are a lot of them.

[PJ Vogt]

You need to be like Cake182 at this point.

[K]

Exactly. Right. And so, yes, this guy known as Cake that I talked to, he was like, yeah, it was a kind of a pain. It's cool to him that some people heard this song.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I think a lot of listeners find me by this groove because, like, I'm not popular. I'm like, no name. But bye bye have a lot of streaming for me. It's as far as I remember. 70,000. Yeah. Or something like that. And it was very great for me that it posted on their page.

[K]

So, yes, this is their big hit, but it doesn't seem like it's a big hit that was part of a scam or that they were able to monetize.

[PJ Vogt]

And has it gotten them any. Like, I imagine the overlap among listeners to the American alt rock group Cake, like there's not that many people in the one circle who would venn diagram into the next of people who are like, I want to start listening to rap, but from Russia. But have they picked up some fans from this? Like, have you?

[K]

You know what it really actually got them is a full episode on one of America, America's most beloved podcasts.

[PJ Vogt]

God, if this is what blows them.

[K]

Up, their plan has worked, pj, because you and I are sitting here just two pawns talking about Russian Cake.

[PJ Vogt]

Kyle Vasana, he's a writer for the New Yorker. You can check out the song Bye Bye by by Po and Cake, the Russian rapper, not the American rock band. We will have a link to the song in our show notes. You can also find it on Spotify where it is now properly filed. K. You want to read the credits?

[K]

Sure. Search Engine is a presentation of Odyssey and Jigsaw Productions. It was created by you, PJ Vogt and Shruti Pinamaneni and is produced by Garrett Graham and Noah John. Fact checking by Mary Mathis. Thanks, Mary. Theme original composition and mixing by Armin Bazarian. Additional production support by Sean Merchant and Kim Koopel. If you would like to support our show, their show really keep it alive and get ad free episodes, zero reruns and the occasional bonus audio Search Engine Engine Please consider signing up for Incognito Mode. You can learn more at Search Engine Show. Our Executive producer is Leah Rhys Dennis. Thank you to the team at Jigsaw, Alex Gibney, Rich Perello and John Schmidt and to the team at Odyssey, Rob Morandi, Craig Cox, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Kurt Courtney and Hilary Shelf. Our agent Their agent is Oren Rosenbaum at uta. Follow and listen to Search Engine for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening. They'll see you next week.

[Sergey Savalev]

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[PJ Vogt]

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