Podcast Title: Search Engine
Host: PJ Vogt
Episode: When Do You Know It’s Time to Stop Drinking? (Re-broadcast)
Release Date: December 20, 2024
Introduction
In this heartfelt rebroadcast episode of Search Engine, host PJ Vogt delves into the profound question: When do you know it’s time to stop drinking? Featuring an in-depth conversation with A.J. Delario, a former editor at Gawker Media and the founder of the recovery newsletter The Small Bow, this episode navigates the complexities of addiction, recovery, and personal transformation.
A.J. Delario’s Journey with Addiction and Career
Early Struggles and Initial Rehab ([05:14] - [07:36])
A.J. Delario opens up about his first encounter with rehab at the age of 19. Initially sent for what he describes as a "detention-like" experience under the guise of addressing a drinking problem, A.J. candidly shares, “I was there basically pretending to be an alcoholic” ([05:51]). Despite attending counseling sessions and watching recovery-themed movies like Clean and Sober ([06:10]), he admits he didn’t stay sober, revealing an early awareness of his unsustainable relationship with substances.
Professional Success Amid Personal Turmoil ([11:44] - [16:24])
Fast forward to his 40s, A.J. found himself thriving professionally within the media landscape dominated by edgy, provocative content. As the editor of Deadspin and later Spin Media, he recounts, “I found that this year... I was having success in that. It wasn't going to be enough for me” ([07:29]). His career was marked by controversial decisions, such as the Hulk Hogan sex tape scandal, which ultimately led to his departure from Gawker ([12:53]).
Despite outward success, A.J. struggled internally, grappling with loneliness and an inability to manage his personal life without substances. He reflects, “No matter how much of my professional life was, I was having success in that. It wasn't going to be enough for me” ([10:34]).
Turning Point: Acknowledging the Need for Change
Decision to Enter Rehab ([16:24] - [23:34])
In 2015, recognizing the unsustainable trajectory of his life, A.J. decided to seek help seriously. He describes a pivotal moment captured in a photo of his disordered workstation, symbolizing his chaotic lifestyle: “a Pringles can of Buffalo extra spicy hot wings flavored Pringles” alongside substances like Xanax and alcohol ([18:54]). This imagery underscores the depths of his addiction and the critical need for change.
Experience in Rehab ([22:56] - [27:19])
A.J. shares his initial nine-day detox experience in North Jersey, where he felt out of place among individuals with more severe addictions. Identifying as a "classic garbage head"—someone without a specific preference for substances—he struggled to take his situation seriously ([22:56]). The turning point came after a brief relapse and a subsequent 45-day inpatient rehab in Florida, where he finally acknowledged that sobriety was the only path forward ([26:49]).
Building a New Path: The Birth of The Small Bow
Founding The Small Bow ([39:25] - [43:22])
Post-rehab, feeling adrift and seeking purpose, A.J. launched The Small Bow in 2018. He explains, “I was trying to figure out how to actually just, like, you know, get back into publishing again” ([39:25]). His newsletter focuses on long-term recovery, featuring essays and illustrations that capture the raw realities of sobriety. A.J. emphasizes authenticity, avoiding clichéd recovery narratives to instead present genuine, wounded experiences that resonate with readers.
Challenges of Public Recovery ([40:40] - [44:13])
Launching The Small Bow was fraught with fears of public judgment and relapse triggers. A.J. admits, “I was always constantly... wanting to pander to people” ([41:14]). Nonetheless, the positive feedback and community engagement validated his efforts, allowing him to connect with others facing similar struggles.
The Essence of Sobriety: Beyond Abstinence
Defining True Sobriety ([33:51] - [37:04])
A.J. differentiates between mere abstinence and true sobriety. While Dry January focuses on temporarily cutting out alcohol, he argues that real sobriety entails a profound personal transformation: “real sobriety means trying to see yourself clearly, trying to evolve” ([58:25]). This journey involves confronting self-loathing, building self-compassion, and rebuilding meaningful relationships.
Rebuilding Relationships and Self-Compassion ([35:54] - [60:06])
Sobriety often necessitates distancing from toxic relationships and accepting that some friendships may fade. A.J. shares, “some of the people I said it was kind of just like instead of a catching up period, it was like an exit interview” ([36:11]). Additionally, he discusses the ongoing struggle to foster self-love, recognizing that “crashing a car and coming in the next day” symbolizes the harsh self-judgment many in recovery experience ([58:56]).
Comparing Dry January to Serious Sobriety
Dry January vs. Long-Term Recovery ([55:18] - [57:19])
When discussing Dry January, A.J. views it as a modest, temporary commitment compared to the extensive, life-altering process of achieving sobriety. He likens Dry January to a “turkey trot” compared to the marathon of true recovery ([56:54]). While acknowledging its positive intentions, he emphasizes that lasting sobriety requires deeper, more sustained efforts beyond short-term abstinence.
PJ’s Reflection on Sobriety ([34:32] - [60:06])
PJ shares his own reflections on abstinence, noting that it often involves abstaining without addressing underlying issues. He appreciates A.J.’s perspective on sobriety as a journey of self-discovery and healing, rather than just refraining from alcohol, highlighting the importance of evolving and offering self-compassion.
Notable Quotes
- A.J. Delario: “I was there basically pretending to be an alcoholic.” ([05:51])
- A.J. Delario: “I found that... I was having success in that. It wasn't going to be enough for me.” ([07:29])
- PJ Vogt: “Do you feel like that that is something that addicts share? Do you think that's something that addicts have to a different intensity?” ([09:47])
- A.J. Delario: “It's an overall sort of, like, swirling tornado of inadequacy and depression and anxiety.” ([08:08])
- A.J. Delario: “I think what I feel now is that I'm trying to learn how to love myself.” ([59:57])
- PJ Vogt: “If you ever hear me more uncomfortable asking a question on the show, please let me know.” ([54:04])
- A.J. Delario: “This is my way of at least extending that hand out to people...” ([52:56])
Conclusions and Insights
This episode of Search Engine offers a poignant exploration of the journey from addiction to recovery. Through A.J. Delario’s candid storytelling, listeners gain insight into the often-hidden struggles behind professional success and the profound personal work required for true sobriety. The conversation underscores that cessation of drinking, as exemplified by Dry January, is just the beginning of a deeper, ongoing process of self-discovery, healing, and rebuilding. Ultimately, the episode serves as a compassionate reminder that it’s okay to seek change, that recovery is a personal and non-linear journey, and that true sobriety involves embracing self-compassion and authentic connections.
For those grappling with similar challenges, A.J.’s message is clear: "When do you know it’s time to stop drinking? Probably the right choice." ([55:46])
Resources Mentioned:
- The Small Bow Newsletter: www.thesmallbow.substack.com
- A.J. Delario’s Writing: Personal essays on recovery and sobriety.
Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive conversation between PJ Vogt and A.J. Delario.