Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? Pt. 1 (classic)

Summary

Search Engine – “Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? Pt. 1 (classic)”

Host: PJ Vogt
Guests: Chris, Dan, Lutz Leitzenring
Date: July 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles a deceptively small but globally relatable question: Why is it so hard to get into Berghain, Berlin’s most notoriously exclusive techno nightclub, and what are selectors (bouncers) really looking for at the door? Using the story of Chris and Dan—two stylish, buttoned-up American professionals who've been rejected from Berghain twice—host PJ Vogt investigates the legendary club's entry mystique. The episode blends personal storytelling, cultural analysis, and policy wonkery, uncovering what makes Berlin nightlife (and Berghain in particular) so distinct, and why Americans like Chris and Dan found themselves on the wrong side of its velvet rope.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myth and Allure of Berghain

• Destination & Ritual: Chris and Dan, longtime friends, recount their annual tradition of party vacations, with Berlin and Berghain being the "crown jewel" of their itinerary.
  • “We knew what the crown jewel of the trip was supposed to be.” — Chris [05:54]
• Celebrity Rejection as Status: The allure is heightened by stories of even celebrities (e.g. Elon Musk, actors) being turned away, making it a universal challenge.
  • “They have rejected so many famous people, from actors and celebrities to the Elon Musks of the world…” — Dan [07:01]

2. The Mechanics of Trying (and Failing) at the Door

• First Attempt – Ignorance: 2017: Chris and Dan show up in black American Apparel shirts, thinking that’s enough—a rookie mistake.
  • "We were so ignorant to any of these rules." — Chris [08:23]
• Second Attempt – Strategic Overhaul: 2022: Now “older, wiser,” they delve into Berghain subreddits, TikToks, and commit to a “dress like freaks” shopping spree in Kreuzberg.
  • “We went to Kreuzberg...we are going to dress like freaks.” — Chris [08:50]
• Outfits Chosen:
  • Dan: Black tank top, short shorts, black shoes, tube socks
  • Chris: Black skinny jeans, shirtless, tuxedo-esque black vest [09:07]
• Line Dynamics:
  • The four-hour line is filled with tension and silence as one approaches the "selectors." Rejections are public and frequent.
  • “When a bunch of people in front of you get rejected, you feel kind of optimistic because you're like, well, they're not going to reject everyone.” — Chris [10:21]

3. Berghain's Door Policy: Behavior and Judgement

• Stone-faced or Friendly?:
  • Trying different strategies: stone-faced authenticity, acting normal, even dancing slightly. All questioned.
  • “Do you look at the bouncer in the eye?... This was like our Authentics Friendly Selves attempt.” — Dan [12:40]
• The Selectors:
  • Lead bouncer Sven Marquardt is described as an intimidating, tattooed figure, often silently communicating with colleagues before administering a swift judgment—usually via a simple outstretched hand or the curt “not tonight.” [13:52]
  • "It's not so much a point as an open palm out the direction that you should be going." — Dan [14:48]
• Second Try – Separate Lines:
  • Chris and Dan try to appear as solo partygoers during the day. Still, both are rejected—probably caught on the lie by the selectors.
  • "It felt like an X-ray." — Chris [16:28]
  • “I think we've figured out the answer why we didn't get in. We were just dumb.” — Dan [16:56]

4. Why Are Nightclubs (and Berghain) Meaningful?

• Nightclubs as 'Holy' Spaces:
  • PJ shares why these spaces matter: “deeply meaningful places, borderline holy”—allowing total escape and anonymous togetherness.
  • “I suspect there might be a human need to gather in a room and surrender to something. And for me...the room should be sweaty and packed, and this surrender should be to music.” — PJ [17:05]
• The Thrill & Relief of Exclusion:
  • Chris and Dan ultimately found getting rejected “fun,” with Dan likening the anxiety to skydiving and even feeling relief when it was over.
  • “I’ve gone skydiving before, and the level of anxiety I had just as I was stepping up to be judged was the same level of anxiety I had just as I was about to jump out of the plane.” — Dan [19:17]

5. The Research: History of Berghain and Its Rules

• Origin Story:
  • Berghain’s roots in post-wall Berlin: evolved from a gay fetish party, to Ostgut (a pansexual den of hedonism), to today's iconic, multi-story techno mecca.
  • “Berghain, at the time of our conversation, rumors...A decommissioned power plant turned into a multi story nightclub.” — PJ [06:26]
• Rules & Mystique:
  • Strict “no photos” policy and “grimy heaven” status.
  • Open from Friday night to Monday morning; the party is a marathon, not a sprint.
  • "They make you put a sticker over your phone, no pictures. Berghain, like Vegas, claims that what happens there stays there. Except in Berghain. That seems to actually be true." — PJ [26:14]
• Selectors as Gatekeepers of Culture:
  • Sven Marquardt, the legendary selector, is famously tight-lipped about his criteria, fueling endless speculation.
  • "We don't need to question the rules that are in place." — Sven, recounted by PJ [29:54]
  • He claims to admit only those “who won’t impede the freedom and self-expression of the people who are already inside.”

6. Online Obsession and Misconceptions

• Internet Theories:
  • Subreddits, TikToks, and “BerghainTrainer.com” offer wild and mostly useless advice (be yourself, don’t laugh, wear black but not necessarily...just blend in).
  • "Literally, just basically be as casual and blend in as possible in order to get in." — PJ [32:01]
• Techno Authenticity:
  • Online “experts” suggest selectors look for “real” techno heads—people who are there for the music, not the myth or the challenge.

7. Berlin Nightlife’s Unique Structure: Why Berlin, Why Berghain?

• No Curfew:
  • Tracing back to post-WW2, Berlin abolished its curfew to prevent cross-border drunken escapades and foster a nightlife economy.
  • "Since then, 1949, we have no curfew." — Lutz Leitzenring [45:19]
• Clubs as Cultural Institutions:
  • Berghain’s tax battle: Is it “entertainment” (high tax) or a “concert” (low tax)? Winning this argument solidified its status as a temple of techno and helped preserve its non-commercial vibes.
  • "Berghain won. The Berghain, in the government’s books, was cemented as a concert venue, a place where people went because they loved techno music." — PJ [48:29]
  • This reduces the financial pressure to commodify and keeps ticket prices (relatively) low.

8. The Selector’s Eye Explained

• Lutz Leitzenring’s Take:
  • Not a selector, but Berlin’s “mayor of nightlife” and club commission spokesperson. Lutz looks at photos of Chris and Dan and can immediately tell:
    • Too friendly, too innocent, not ready for the “darkness” and intensity of Berghain.
    • He’d send them to Schwutz, Berlin's oldest gay club with a lighter vibe.
  • "They don't look like hard, you know, like, standing in the middle of a sweaty club and going for hours and enjoying this. And...they're standing more like having a chat, you know, like. And that's. That's okay to have some of those folks in the venue, but it's really about getting out of your inner self and showing your animalistic side." — Lutz [52:21]
  • Clubs are about being a “participant, not a visitor.”
• True Way In:
  • Lutz’s ultimate advice for outsiders: Start at smaller, less exclusive venues. Make friends with DJs and bartenders. Become genuinely part of the scene—which, ironically, is the backdoor to Berghain.
  • “The next time you’re coming, you’re gonna reach out to them, and because…they like you…they will ask you to…their home with dinner…even maybe they make sure that you get on a guest list of some venue that they're going at that night. But I think it’s part of that journey that you also have to make to be part of the scene.” — Lutz [55:24]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the tension in line:
  • “When a bunch of people in front of you get rejected, you feel kind of optimistic because you're like, well, they're not going to reject everyone.” — Chris [10:21]
• On the hand gesture of rejection:
  • “It's not so much a point as an open palm out the direction that you should be going.” — Dan [14:48]
• On the rejection experience:
  • “It felt like an X-ray.” — Chris [16:28]
  • “I think we've figured out the answer why we didn't get in. We were just dumb.” — Dan [16:56]
• On the meaning of nightclubs:
  • “I find nightclubs to be deeply meaningful places, borderline holy...these are the only places where I escape that, where, even sober, I can just feel like a body. Not a brain, or not a body, just a part of a mass of them.” — PJ [17:05]
• On culture and gatekeeping:
  • “A club should bring together people of similar interests. Absolutely. But what if you’re someone who doesn’t belong but still wants to just go check it out?” — PJ [54:27]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment/Event | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:10 | Chris & Dan introduce themselves; describe their “wholesome partying” style | | 06:26 | Berghain mythos and international allure | | 08:50 | Second try: committed shopping trip for freaky Berghain attire | | 09:53 | Description of the infamous four-hour line and rejected hopefuls | | 13:52 | First encounter with Sven and the selective, silent rejection process | | 15:24 | Daytime, “going separately” attempt fails—selectors see through ruse | | 17:05 | PJ reflects on the deeper meaning of nightclubs | | 20:01 | Chris’s question: What are bouncers “scanning for”—what’s the test? | | 25:26 | History: Berghain’s roots and evolution from Ostgut | | 32:01 | TikTok & online “advice” for getting in | | 41:45 | Lutz Leitzenring (Berlin’s “mayor of nightlife”) enters the story | | 45:19 | The story of Berlin’s abolition of the nightlife curfew | | 48:29 | How Berghain’s legal status as a “concert” preserves its culture | | 51:19 | Lutz analyzes Chris and Dan’s photos—spotting “Schwutz, not Berghain” energy | | 54:45 | Lutz’s real “advice” for getting into Berlin nightlife: become part of the scene, not just a visitor |

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Episode Tone

Conversational, witty, self-deprecating, and slightly irreverent—balancing anthropological seriousness about club culture with humor about the absurdities and anxieties of trying (and failing) to be cool. PJ, Chris, and Dan are candid about their insecurities, with PJ in particular poking fun at his own outsider status. The episode is rich with Berlin-specific cultural context and an insider/outsider dynamic, punctuated by dry, observational humor.

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Summary Takeaways

• Getting into Berghain is less about the way you look or how hard you try, and more about being truly part of Berlin’s techno culture.
• The club’s exclusivity is not just a matter of fashion, but a product of postwar policy decisions, tax law, and a commitment to authentic, participatory nightlife.
• Attempts to game, hack, or shortcut the entry process usually fail—and sometimes the experience/ritual of rejection is its own reward.
• “True entry” to Berghain is about genuine participation, not tourism—advice not just for clubbing, but for belonging anywhere.

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To be continued in Part 2, where the investigation into Berghain’s secrets (and PJ’s own Berlin adventure) continues…

Transcript

[PJ Vogt]

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[Chris]

I'm Chris.

[Dan]

I'm Dan. I guess I'm also a burgh hunter.

[PJ Vogt]

Chris and Dan, two very successful, stylish young professionals. They had an annual tradition going back years. These two friends would vacation together sometimes to exciting nightlife destinations like Berlin, the city they just returned from. And what's like the nature of these vacations? Like, what is your form of relaxing?

[Dan]

I would say our form of relaxing is generally not relaxing.

[PJ Vogt]

It's like partying.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay.

[Dan]

But you know, respectful, healthy, wholesome party. Yes.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay. And so this was your second trip to Berlin to do Respectful of whom? I'm not sure. Wholesome. What was the last thing?

[Dan]

Healthy, respectful, wholesome and healthy partying. Yeah.

[PJ Vogt]

So you guys, these are a lot of like daybreaker parties where you drink water and like do yoga afterwards or whatever.

[Dan]

Yeah, A lot of green tea.

[Chris]

Exactly. That's the vibe.

[PJ Vogt]

Chris and Dan, I should tell you, more conscientious and buttoned up than most people I know. Chris, who I've known much longer, he's the kind of person where when I invite him to a party, I can set my watch to, what happens? He and his boyfriend show up exactly on time, bearing a thoughtful gift. And then Chris sneaks out the front door two hours later or half an hour before midnight, whichever comes first. Not a person given to unplanned improvised fun. So I was actually surprised to learn he'd been drawn to Berlin, a city that tends to attract my more late night degenerate friends. So you're going to Berlin and like, how many days were you going for?

[Chris]

I think it was like 72 hours in Berlin.

[Dan]

Yeah, it was a really short trip.

[PJ Vogt]

And what was the itinerary?

[Dan]

There was a very unstructured itinerary which consisted of absolutely nothing.

[Chris]

But we knew what the crown jewel of the trip was supposed to be.

[Dan]

Yes, key. Where it's supposed to be.

[PJ Vogt]

And that was Berghain. And why Berghain?

[Dan]

I guess it has this mythical status attached to it, which is no one can get in or very few people can get in. But once you're in, it's like this mystical palace of fun and amazing music and God knows what else. Because neither of us have ever been inside.

[PJ Vogt]

Berghain. At the time of our conversation, rumors about Berghain had certainly reached me. 4,000 miles away in Brooklyn, I'd heard the basics. A decommissioned power plant turned into a multi story nightclub. People talked about this place as a kind of grimy heaven. And like traditional heaven, grimy heaven was also supposedly very hard to get into. It operated according to its own particular value system. Berghain selectively welcomed freaks, rejects, the different. This was the place where my friends had wanted to go.

[Dan]

And I think part of the whole allure of the venue is because they reject so many people. Yeah, they have rejected so many famous people, from actors and celebrities to the Elon Musks of the world. And so it would be one thing if, you know, we're not a list celebrity, so of course we're not getting into this club. But even the top of the top of society, the top of the top of the business world, even, they are not getting into this club.

[PJ Vogt]

Yeah, it's savage, I should say, according to Elon Musk. Elon Musk was not rejected from Berghain in 2022. Amidst a bunch of Internet chatter about how he'd not gotten in, he posted on Twitter that it was he who'd rejected the club. He said he'd refused to enter. Okay, Chris and Dan. Their recent attempt was not their first try. They'd also gone in 2017. Back then, they'd done the same thing. Gone to Berlin, headed to Berghain, waited in the line, and ultimately been told, nein. This time around, they were older, they were wiser, and they had at least one new advantage. This thriving corner of the Internet devoted to Berghain door policy reconnaissance.

[Dan]

There are Reddit forums, subreddits completely dedicated to this. There are TikToks dedicated to this.

[PJ Vogt]

In English.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Chris]

In every language. We were kind of looking back on the last time that we went, and we were like, what did we do wrong? And I think the last time we went, we were so ignorant to any of these rules. We showed up in like black American Apparel T shirts and thought that would be adequate for the dress code.

[PJ Vogt]

Yeah, yeah, okay. But that's not adequate.

[Chris]

Yeah, no. Totally woefully inadequate.

[PJ Vogt]

So now, five years later, when Chris and Dan arrived once again in Berlin, they knew they would have to take things more seriously.

[Chris]

We had a shopping module one day where we went to Kreuzberg, which is like their sort of like, funky neighborhood with all their vintage stores, and we were like, we are going to dress like freaks.

[Dan]

Athletic shorts, tank tops, harnesses. Yeah, it's definitely a look.

[PJ Vogt]

The outfits they decide on for Dan, a black tank top and short shorts, length somewhere between 80s camp counselor and 90s 90s basketball player. Black shoes and tube socks. For Chris, black skinny jeans, no shirt, and this black vest that kind of looked like a tuxedo vest. With their outfits ready and mindset prepared, they head to the Berghain line for their Saturday attempt.

[Chris]

There's this error through the day of like, we're gonna cinch this. Like, it felt that way to me.

[Dan]

If it was gonna be any moment, it was gonna be that day.

[PJ Vogt]

Got it. Okay, so tell me.

[Chris]

So it's always a fixture. Like, you show up, it's very, very long. Three to four hours.

[PJ Vogt]

Are you talking a little bit. From the back of the line, they could see the club, the former power plant, looming over the horizon. It was dark except for flashes of light and silhouettes through the top windows. Very faintly, it emitted the throb of bass. As they stood there waiting, people would walk past them, people who'd already been rejected, glumly leaving. Chris said sight of these people would actually inspire hope in him.

[Chris]

When a bunch of people in front of you get rejected, you feel kind of optimistic because you're like, well, they're not going to reject everyone. You know, just statistically, we're probably in luck.

[PJ Vogt]

Way, way, way up ahead at the front of the line stood, the bouncers. A few of these bouncers specially deputized to decide who got into the club. Those are called selectors. Those were the people sending rejects back out into the night. So how soon can they see you?

[Dan]

You know, that's up for debate. Oh, really? Some people might say they're kind of watching you the entire time.

[PJ Vogt]

This is Santa Claus logic. There's no way they're watching you the entire time.

[Chris]

No, but people do come back. You see people that are kind of strolling the line and then you see them again at the door. That happened at least once.

[PJ Vogt]

Oh, so Santa Claus is watching you?

[Chris]

Yeah, but for the. I mean, I assumed or I felt like for the most part, you weren't really scrutinized until you were within like 20 to 30 people of the door.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay.

[Chris]

And then they're on a pedestal.

[Dan]

They're on a literal pedestal.

[Chris]

They're on a literal pedestal and they're looking out and you could feel their eyes on you.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay, and so how. What was your strategy for how to behave in the line?

[Chris]

The conventional wisdom is to be just stone faced. Now we tried that. We also tried the approach of being like, let's just be normal. Now. Another thing that's interesting is I think that they could tell to the point of like scanning you for authenticity. Like, we actually are gay, which works in our favor because it retains its roots as a gay club. And they're gay at the door.

[PJ Vogt]

Oh, the bouncers are all gay.

[Chris]

The bouncers are gay, we think.

[PJ Vogt]

Yeah, they seemed to be.

[Chris]

They seem to be.

[PJ Vogt]

After a couple hours of anxious waiting, Chris and Dan found themselves close to the mouth of. Of Berghain.

[Chris]

There's actually like a physical demarcation. So, like, you get to a certain point where, like, the line actually has a railing around it.

[PJ Vogt]

Oh, okay.

[Chris]

So once you reach that point, you're like, whoa, this is game time. Like, then you're within, like 20 people of the door. You know that you're within sight of the bouncers. That's when, like, you could hear a pin drop.

[PJ Vogt]

Everyone's just completely quiet.

[Chris]

Everyone's totally quiet.

[PJ Vogt]

That's so funny. And what happens when you walk up? How do you. Do you, like, straighten your posture?

[Dan]

Absolutely.

[PJ Vogt]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dan]

And so you get up and then there's a number of calculations that are going on in your mind. Do you look at the bouncer in the eye? Do you look kind of at the ground? Do you smile? Do you keep a straight face? Do you say anything? And I think on this, try this Was like our Authentics Friendly Selves attempt. And so, you know, I smiled at the guy. He asked how many people were. I said two. I was friendly. I think. I asked him how his night was going.

[PJ Vogt]

Did he answer?

[Dan]

No, of course not. One of my calculations was whether or not to look like I was having fun and into the music. So I kind of, like, was dancing a little bit, but, you know, very, like, minor movements. And I don't think that strategy worked.

[Chris]

It didn't.

[PJ Vogt]

It's hard because you're like, how do I not look desperate after waiting in line for several hours to get into the most exclusive nightclub in the world? It's like a witch hunt where every person in line is a witch.

[Dan]

Yeah. And you're constantly making adjustments on how to not appear to be a witch. Yeah, yeah.

[PJ Vogt]

So you walk up, you say, like, how's your night? He says nothing. Is he just looking at you? Is he a he?

[Dan]

It's a he. There's Sven, the main bouncer. If Berghain itself is the epitome of what you would think of East German old techno nightclub, then Sven is the epitome of what you would think of as the bouncer, the lead bouncer for that venue.

[PJ Vogt]

What does he look like?

[Dan]

A large man with a large number of tattoos and piercings on his face. That man is. He's a unique individual.

[PJ Vogt]

Is he intimidating?

[Dan]

He's extremely intimidating. And there's two others. Apparently there's some sort of communication between the two of them. Some sort of silent communication, but it's not legible. There's only one amount of legible communication, and that's the decision.

[PJ Vogt]

And how do they communicate it to you?

[Dan]

It's always one person. They pull up at a time or a small group, and sometimes they're immediately rejected. Like, they don't even get to say a word. The bouncer just puts his hand out and they just keep walking.

[Chris]

Very subtle. Yeah, yeah.

[PJ Vogt]

And they just point towards the street.

[Dan]

It's not so much a point as an open palm out the direction that you should be going.

[PJ Vogt]

So the gesture you're doing is actually the gesture. One used to be like, welcome to my home. But it's welcome to not my home. Like, it's. It's the. The arm goes out, the. The palm's outstretched. Like, look at this. You're not going to a nightclub.

[Chris]

Yeah. It's like, you're welcome to go anywhere else in Berlin.

[PJ Vogt]

Chris and Dan did not get the gentle way of inviting them anywhere else in Berlin. Instead, they got a verbal Rejection. The bouncer told them, not tonight. And so the next day, Sunday, they tried again.

[Chris]

They had a new plan to go during the day. That's how.

[PJ Vogt]

Separately, during the day and separately. Okay. And the idea being during the day, less competition. Separately, the bouncer might respect you more. Or is it two chances?

[Dan]

The line was just as long, I would say, if not longer, actually during the day. And yeah, our thinking was perhaps we would attain that additional level of respect if we pretended as if we were going separately.

[PJ Vogt]

On this attempt, Chris and Dan stood in line next to each other for hours and did not talk.

[Dan]

We acted like we didn't know each other. And I was ahead of Chris. And I get up and one of the bouncer's like, how many? And I say, one. And he just stares at me and stares. And I actually thought this was the time I was getting. And I was pretty confident because it was like a solid 20 seconds, I would say, before I was rejected. But as soon as they rejected me, they looked at Chris and immediately rejected him.

[Chris]

Oh, my God.

[Dan]

So we're pretty sure they caught us on the lie.

[Chris]

Yeah, it was insane. It felt like an X ray.

[PJ Vogt]

But is it the same bouncers from the night before?

[Chris]

Yes, it actually was. Actually, as we're saying this, I'm like, we're idiots.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Obviously they knew that we were together.

[Dan]

Well, that would assume they remembered us out of the thousands of people who are probably trying to get in there.

[Chris]

But of course they did. I can't believe we had to go on a podcast.

[PJ Vogt]

Like, yeah, you're like, I think you saw into my soul.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Yeah, I think we've. We've figured out the answer why we didn't get in. We were just dumb.

[PJ Vogt]

If it seems silly to you that two adult men spent so much time and energy trying to get into a nightclub, if it seems sillier that this reporter would then spend a year of his life thinking about this place that those men never got to see the inside of. I should tell you how I feel about nightlife, which is maybe not what you would expect. I find nightclubs to be deeply meaningful places, borderline holy. I know that sounds a little weird, but in New York, where I live, there's a handful of these quasi underground little dance spots. Smoke machine shrouded dance floors, usually free to get in, where you can just lose yourself for hours dancing in a throng of strangers. It's all very corny to talk about, especially on a podcast, but as a person who feels like a full time resident of my own Mind, these are the only places where I escape that, where, even sober, I can just feel like a body. Not a brain or not a body, just a part of a mass of them. I suspect there might be a human need to gather in a room and surrender to something. And for me, what I discovered pretty late in life is that the room should be sweaty and packed, and this render should be to music. Berghain. Whatever the hype, the promise was that it was the best of these rooms built by humans, an actual wonder of the world, not some relic. If somebody was going to sympathize with the plight of two Americans who had failed to pass its door, it was probably going to be me. At the same time, I like them, also found this whole situation deeply funny. Isn't it weird that you guys went to all this trouble to be like. And I don't mean this in like the Supreme Court says the word, but like, to just be discriminated against?

[Chris]

Yes.

[Dan]

I don't think we'd think we were discriminated against. I. I don't want to be here and say, oh, because we're two Americans, we absolutely knew what we were getting into, and it was almost going there. And getting rejected was like a fun activity in and of itself.

[PJ Vogt]

Right. It's like you're participating in the thrill.

[Dan]

Let me put it this way. I've gone skydiving before, and the level of anxiety I had just as I was stepping up to be judged was the same level of anxiety I had just as I was about to jump out of the plane. Really? Yeah.

[PJ Vogt]

And then what did it feel like to be rejected?

[Dan]

Almost a relief, really. You get it over with. I wish I had gotten in, but yeah. And then when Chris was rejected, too, I felt really good about myself. Would have been devastating.

[PJ Vogt]

So what is, like, the thing you're trying to figure out about Berghain? Like, what is the question that I can answer?

[Chris]

So there's a few things I want to know. One thing is, say there are some cases where it's cuspy, and they're like, we want cuspy.

[PJ Vogt]

Like on the cusp of a decision.

[Chris]

On the cusp of a decision where they're like, they can't decide when you're 20 people away whether you're a yes or a no. Yeah. And they want to get a closer look. What are they scanning you for?

[PJ Vogt]

Right.

[Chris]

What are the cues that are going to, you know, nudge you towards getting in versus kick you to the curb?

[PJ Vogt]

Got it.

[Chris]

The other question that I have, every time we would leave. We would walk around the whole club. I wonder if there's a way to sneak in.

[PJ Vogt]

Like, is there just like a fire exit?

[Chris]

Yeah. Like, is it permeable from any other orifice than this door? I mean, I expect it to be hard. To be clear. I don't think that there's some easy, oh, just go in the back door. I'm just like, if you jump a fence crawling under a bush, like, I'm like, is there a way?

[PJ Vogt]

And would you do it if there were?

[Dan]

Yeah, Absolutely.

[Chris]

Yeah. Okay.

[PJ Vogt]

What is the bouncer at Berghain scanning you for if you're on the cusp? And is there some other, perhaps secret way to sneak into Berghain? After the break, our investigation begins. This episode of Search Engine is brought to you in part by Instacart. Whenever I host a last minute summer hangout, my go to move is just opening. The Instacart app. Suddenly needing ingredients or mixers or quality snacks can be stressful, but Instacart enables delivery in as fast as 30 minutes. To save the day, you must be 21 plus to order alcohol where available, and please enjoy responsibly. For me, I just really love the convenience that I can actually order the things I want from the stores I want with a shopper who really cares about getting the order right gives me my time back. It means that I can focus on my guests instead of running errands. Instacart is designed to make life easier, taking care of, delivering the things you need with the quality you deserve so you can focus on what matters most. It's one less thing to worry about during a pandemic busy week. Instacart brings convenience, quality and ease right to your door so you can focus on what matters most, download the Instacart app, and get groceries just how you like. This episode of Search Engine is brought to you in part by Hexclad. Summer cooking season is officially here. Everyone obsesses over the grill, including me, but your indoor cookware handles a ton of the workload. And if your current skillets are constantly burning or sticking, they're holding you back. I have switched to Hexclad. It has been fantastic. Honestly, the thing that blew me away was finally just getting a perfect restaurant quality crust on a ribeye without then having to spend the rest of my evening scrubbing a pan. You can use metal spatulas without scratching them, toss them right into the dishwasher, and they're oven safe up to 900 degrees. There's a reason celebrity chefs swear by them as well as podcasters, and they come with a lifetime guarantee for a limited time only. Search engine listeners get 10% off with our exclusive link. Just head to hexclad.com search support our show and check them out at h e x C-L-A-.com search. Make sure to let them know we sent you. This is genuinely great cookware. Welcome back to the show Unsuns when we started all this last July, all I really knew about Berghain was that it was a Berlin techno club and that it was very hard to get into. But I started researching. The club itself maintains a very minimal footprint online. 200,000 people follow Berghain's Instagram account, but the club has only ever posted one photo in 2015, a picture of a sign that says in all caps, taking photos is not allowed. The sign presumably from inside the club itself. Berghain, like Vegas, claims that what happens there stays there. Except in Berghain. That seems to actually be true. Some information about the club nevertheless, has circulated. The story of Berghain, as I now understand it, begins 30 years ago in the early 1990s. Two Germans, Norbert Thormann and Michael Teufele, had begun hosting a men's only gay fetish party, sometimes at an abandoned air raid shelter. After a few years, the party outgrew that bunker. The pair took over an abandoned railroad depot. At the railroad depot, they started a club called Ostgood. Ostgood was legendary, open to people of all genders and sexualities, but still a space run by and largely for gay men, a den of hedonism where consenting adults supposedly engaged in all sorts of unusual behavior online. At least one video survives from inside

[Chris]

the club,

[PJ Vogt]

But the video is pretty tame. It's from July 2000. Looks like camcorder footage. A grainily shot DJ hovers over a console twiddling knobs, while nearby a crowd of German shadows writhes under a strobe light. Ostgut may have lived forever, except the city wanted to build a big arena, so the railroad depot was knocked down in 2003. Berghain was its reincarnation, the palace that replaced Asgood. This time too big to knock down, a thermal power plant originally built during the Soviet era. Four floors on the very bottom floor, a dedicated basement gay club for men only. At the very top, a bar with big windows opening onto a panoramic view of the city. On the levels in between, where the power turbines once sat, an enormous dark cavern, the main dance area, the entire space governed by its own particular rules. Rules that are repeated breathlessly by the Internet commentariat. Burkane is not a standard posh club with bottle service. They make you put a sticker over your phone, no pictures.

[Dan]

They'll throw you the f?

[PJ Vogt]

Ck out. There'd be a window where you could

[Dan]

buy ice cream and you could order smoothies. It's open from Friday until Monday and most people stay there for 12 hours, 24 hours or more.

[PJ Vogt]

Right now it's 9am Berghain is best known for one weekly party, Clubnacht Club night. Club night is a misnomer because while the party starts Saturday evening, it continues all the way until Monday morning without interruption. A few books document the history of the scene that birthed this party. I found Tobias Rapp's Lost and Sound to be particularly helpful. He writes about how when Berghain opened in 2004, the party was by and for Berliners. But word soon spread internationally. A European budget airline called EasyJet had just opened a new hub in Berlin. And other Europeans started taking EasyJet flights to the city to come. Party. The legend kept growing. Eventually it grew large enough to draw Chris and Dan, two of the many Americans who made the pilgrimage to Techno Mecca. It was a marvel. A three day party good enough to draw thousands of people every weekend. People who would fly to Germany without even a promise they would gain admittance. That was Klubnacht at Bergheim. Most of what people discuss online is not any of this. Instead, they talk about Sven, the intimidating bouncer who Chris and Dan encountered and then cowered in front of Sven Markart. Sven Markart is a tall, imposing man in his early 60s, with giant lip rings that look like silver fangs. His hair is slicked back and silver tattoos of thorns cover much of his face. He looks like a bad guy in a John Wick movie. And he has played a bad guy in a John Wick movie that was just a cameo one time, though. Sven has run security at Berghain since club first opened 20 years ago. Sven's backstory he grew up in East Berlin, the communist side of the Wall, before it fell. There's this one documentary, Berlin Bouncer, that profiles Sven. In one scene, he gives a talk in front of a crowd. He's wearing all black tinted glasses. Sven discusses the early chapters of his life, how his teenage years were defined by the feeling of being stuck outside a much more significant kind of door. Sven saying, we just wanted to see the other side of the Wall. We didn't really want to leave home. We just wanted to find out what were we being deprived of? What weren't we allowed to see. Sven has said that as a young gay punk rocker, living in East Berlin was risky. He was frequently picked up by the secret police. He was devoted to his photography career. But after the Wall fell, he chose to stay on the East Berlin side and his art career stalled there. Sven's brother was a DJ and a club organizer and Sven started working the door at his parties. It turned out Sven's eye for people worked not just in photography, but also here. He had a talent for deciding who should be let in. He developed a reputation. That's why they chose him for Osgood and later for Berghain. The fact that this much of Sven's biography exists in public, of course, goes entirely against Berghain's secretive ethos. But Sven has continued to pursue his photography career and so every few years when he has a new exhibition or a photo book, he talks to journalists. Questions about his photography, which he wants to discuss, and questions about how to get into Berghain, which he has to tolerate. Those are the terms under which the gatekeepers at places like the New York Times or GQ will allow Sven entry. And understanding the way of these things, he obliges Sven, the man with the answer to our question. What was the bouncer at Berghain scanning you for? I should say I emailed Sven and requested an interview. I've never been less surprised to be ignored. But in the documentary there's this prickly moment where the interviewer seems to have directly asked Sven the rules of the door. Sven responds, not with helpful tips about what shade of black to wear. Instead, he says sternly, we don't need to question the rules that are in place. He does allow that as a selector, his responsibility is to only let people in who, once they join the party, won't impede the freedom and self expression of the people who are already inside. It makes sense, but it does not provide clues. And in any situation in which official sources remain this tight lipped, of course speculation will reign. And it does online. As Chris and Dan had seen mainly on TikTok, there a cottage industry of people who claim to have gotten through the door now style themselves as helpful experts, explaining what exactly they believe Sven is scanning for when he looks at people like Chris and Dan trying to get inside the mind of a 62 year old gay German ex punk. Be really casual, don't be flamboyant, don't

[Lutz Leitzenring]

speak too much, don't talk too loud in the queue and under no circumstances engage in laughter.

[PJ Vogt]

Literally, just basically be as casual and blend in as possible in order to get in. So we got. It's impossible to know if any of these people are actually telling the truth. Again, you can't record inside of Berghain, which means you just have to take their word for it, I promise.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

People say that you need to wear black to get in, but that's not true. It helps, but it's not a must. I know a guy.

[PJ Vogt]

Just be yourself. And if you get in, you get in.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

And if you don't, try again some

[PJ Vogt]

other time or call it a wrap.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

When I went back, I was wearing

[PJ Vogt]

the advice offered by these supposed gurus, frankly, does not feel all that usable. Try to get in or maybe don't wear black, but you don't have to. The other thing is like, look sharp,

[Dan]

but also like you don't care that much.

[PJ Vogt]

My favorite artifact of all the online Berghain speculation is this website called bergheintrainer.com that will actually drop you into a surprisingly high res simulation of the Berghain line. The site takes control of your webcam and then scans your face, analyzing your emotions through your expressions. How angry, sad, euphoric your face is, giving a virtual simulation of Sven's gaze. And then the first person video virtually walks you, step by step, up to the doors of Berghain. The music gets louder as you get closer. The website warns you that Sven will ask you three questions. So I did it. When I arrived at the virtual door, a German man, presumably an actor playing Sven, asked, is this your first time here? I said yes. He asked, do you know who's DJing tonight? I said yes. He asked whether I'd taken drugs. I said nein. After a moment of scanning, the virtual bouncer told me, not good today. And then made the hand gesture toward the street. The same hand gesture Chris and Dan had gotten. To be honest with you, this rejection by a fake bouncer, it hurt my real feelings. I'll tell you something about myself that won't surprise you. I've never been considered cool. I know cool people. I'm not against coolness, I just don't possess it. I'm uncool enough that I often ask the cool people I know to explain to me why certain things are cool right now. How did we decide big pants are back in style? If you have to ask, you're not cool. And I do have to ask, both professionally and just because of my personality. So I'm not cool and I'm old enough to be okay with that, but this was a little different. At Berghain, where Sven ruled, it seemed to me that the source of his power lay partly in his refusal to explain himself. My job as a journalist was was the opposite, to understand and explain, and I just couldn't resist the challenge of trying to understand something that was designed to obscure itself. That was why, even after all this Internet sleuthing and documentary watching, we would continue digging for the better part of a year. We would talk to lots of people. We'd read too many books devoted to the Talmudic study of German techno, its origins and subgenres. And in the end, we'd emerge with an answer. What was Berghain scanning for? And why? How would a place like this come to be? All that after the. This episode of Search Engine is brought to you in part by Snapple. Hey, before we jump back into the show, let's take a quick break. But not just any break. This is a refreshing break with Snapple. We all know about Snapple's iconic real facts, so let's take a moment to go over some of my faves. Snapple RealFact 1361 A nun held one of the first PhDs in computer science. Snapple RealFact 1643 the first search engine's name is Archie Snapple. RealFact 1517 In New York, it is illegal to sell a haunted house without telling the buyer. Snapple RealFact 1228 Chimps can develop their own fashion trends, so grab a Snapple, take a second and enjoy the moment. Because let's be honest, this might be the most refreshing part of your day. Snapple, make your break more interesting. All right. Now let's get back to the show. This episode of Search Engine is brought to you in part by Square. Square is the easy way for business owners to take payments, book appointments, and keep everything running in one place. I am always paying attention to how local shops handle things and I love visiting Anoki Catskills up in Socrates, New York. They use Square and honestly just makes the business feel a little more put together. The checkout is super quick. Receipts are emailed instantly. It's great whether you are selling kimchi, cutting hair or running a design studio. Square helps you manage the day to day with less stress. It's incredibly straightforward and intuitive, allowing you to track sales and manage inventory in real time. With Square, you get all the tools to run your business with none of the contracts or complexity. And why wait? Right now you can get up to $200 off square hardware at square.com goengine that's sq U-A-R-E.com go engine run your business smarter with Square get started today. This episode of Search Engine is brought to you in part by Rocket Money. Thinking about my finances and setting a budget used to be the last thing I wanted to deal with over rel weekend. But Rocket Money has made this so much easier for me. Now, instead of feeling overwhelmed, I get personalized insights and regular reports that actually make sense. You can easily set customizable budgets, track your goals, and receive real time alerts for large transactions or low balances. In fact, users who create a financial goal with Rocket money save over $70 on average within the first 30 days. It takes all the guesswork out of your spending patterns by automatically categorizing your transactions across all your accounts. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. [e-mail] Search that's RocketMoney.com Search RocketMoney.com Search. Welcome back to the show. In America, in the circles I run in, people complain a lot about capitalism. I don't think they're bothered by the exchange of goods and services. I think it's their shorthand way of saying everything here is just too driven by profit. Even things that start out good can be squeezed to death by our ceaseless desire to wring out every possible dollar. In Berlin, a place where, until recently, capitalism and socialism both operated in Berlin, it feels like something else is going on. The nightlife industry there brings in one and a half billion tourism dollars a year. But they're strange dollars. The crown jewel, Berghain operates by turning away thousands of paying customers. And despite demand, it keeps its ticket prices pretty low, all while existing in a building that is 37,600 square feet in a very hip neighborhood. And not only does this all seem to work, it's worked for a long time. That doesn't happen in nightlife. Clubs don't stick around. Studio 54 was open for less than three years. Berghain is on its 20th. And people attribute a lot of that success to Berghain's strict and strange door policy. You can tell the story of that door as a story about culture, about cool. But cool, we know, never explains itself. So let's get inside Berghain from a different direction. I'm going to tell you the story not about DJs and bouncers, but about Lawyers and lobbyists about the municipal regulation and policy that allows this club to exist the way it does. A story that begins in 1949. Hi, can you hear me?

[Lutz Leitzenring]

Hey, hey. I hear you.

[PJ Vogt]

Well, how's it going over there?

[Lutz Leitzenring]

Well, well, well.

[PJ Vogt]

Lutz Leitzenring. I'd first heard about him from one of my best friends, Kay Burke, a nightclub founder herself. People in Berlin called Litz the mayor of the city's nightlife. So did Kay explain, like, who I am and what we're up to over here?

[Lutz Leitzenring]

I think she might, but it was also quite some time, a goal. So maybe you can fill me in again.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[PJ Vogt]

So I have this podcast called Search Engine, where we just try to answer people's questions, no matter how simple or complicated. And we do sort of, like, all manner of stuff. We do, like, really serious stuff. Like, we just did something about fentanyl and the drug supply in America, but we also do really silly stuff and kind of, like, everything in between.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

And what level are we here in this conversation?

[PJ Vogt]

We're closer to silly, I think. So we have these friends I want to tell you about who just, like, didn't get into Berghain and are confused about it. But it's sort of an excuse to tell the larger story about nightlife. Like, I think for people in the United States, it's a place you go and you spend $500 on champagne and, like, you know what I mean? It's like.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

Or $10 on a can of beer.

[PJ Vogt]

Yes.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

Without a glass.

[PJ Vogt]

Exactly. Germans like Lutz call this style of nightclub bottles and models, shorthand for the economic model that drives them. Clubs like these are what most Americans think of when you say nightclub spots that tend to make their money by enticing rich people to pay for tables and buy bottles of champagne so that they can feel important. The clubs are like little status factories. In Berlin, though that same word, nightclub, describes an entirely different operation fueled by a different economic model. And Lutz's job is to protect that status quo. He's nightlife's advocate in the offices of city bureaucrats, the spokesperson for Berlin's club commission. I wanted Lutz to tell me how Berlin's unusual nightlife scene had come to be. And that story is the story of two arguments. The first argument takes place in the late 1940s. Argument one is about a very specific curfew. In Berlin today, there is no curfew. Bars and clubs stay open as long as they want. And can you tell me the story of, like, how Berlin came to be a City with no curfew. Like, what is the origin story of that decision?

[Lutz Leitzenring]

This decision is like almost 80 years old and it happened right after World War II. So in 1949 you had already a divided city between the eastern sector and the western sector. The eastern sector controlled by the Russians and the western sector controlled by the British, the French and Americans. And in the eastern part there was a curfew at 10pm so all the restaurants, bars, hotel bars, cabaret bars, etc. They had to close at 10pm in the eastern part. In the western part it was nine, so an hour earlier. And there was this, let's say, representative spokesperson of the hotels and restaurants of Berlin. His name was Heinz Zellermeyer.

[PJ Vogt]

Heinz Zellermeyer. There was no club commission back then. Heinz was instead the deputy director of the Guild of Berlin Hoteliers. In photos, Heinz has an enormous smile and combed back hair. He looks like someone who held forth at a restaurant or two. Heinz did not like the curfew. He particularly did not like that his side of the city had an earlier curfew. The person to complain to was General Howley of the U.S. army, the American's West Berlin commandant. A meeting was set and Heinz supposedly came prepared.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

The story is that he brought a bottle of whiskey to that meeting. So they met and they were talking about it and General Hawley said, yeah, the British and the French, they're not really supporting any idea of losing this curf they say is a security issue. So you have to give me an argument that I can give to French and the British. And the problem was that at that moment in the western part, people had to go out of the bar and then they went to the eastern sector for another hour, which was also not really liked by the Americans. So he said, if you kick Germans who are partying at a certain hour, you kick them out of the street, you're going to have a security issue. So you have to better find a solution for it.

[PJ Vogt]

It was a well reasoned argument. The Allies did not want drunk Westerners crossing East in search of a later last call. And worse, there'd been an emerging cold war of curfews, with each side, the east and the west, repeatedly extending an hour past each other to try to capture all the income from drunk Berliners. Eliminating curfew would solve the security issue and win the night war. Halley was sold.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

He said, okay, let's try this out for two weeks. And since then, 1949, we have no curfew.

[PJ Vogt]

Berlin, one of the rare cities that has no curfew. At all. In 1949, when the city permanently deleted its curfew, obviously, techno music did not exist. Raving was something people did in insane asylums. If anyone was listening to music in a club late at night, it was probably jazz. But this decision set Berlin on a path. Nightlife is funded more than anything else via the sale of alcohol. A city without a curfew can have a legal party that runs through the night. Even that runs multiple nights. Half a century ish later, techno will hit Berlin. People will begin to throw raves in illegal spots without permits. This will happen in a lot of cities at the same time. Detroit, New York, London. But what makes Berlin different from those places is that here, many of those raves can actually become legitimate. Businesses can find permanent homes and clubs. General Halley's 1949 agreement is the first precondition for Klubnacht at Berghain. It sets the stage for a party that can last for three days. But years later, as the scene starts to mature, a second argument takes place, an argument which almost kills these nightclubs. Argument two is about taxes. In the early 2000s, Berghain was a rising young club alongside already established spots like Tresor and the Kitkat club. And Berlin's tax authority started to take a closer look at these places. How much money were they bringing in? Shouldn't the city be getting a bigger cut? Government tax agents walk into Berghain, presumably without needing permission from Sven. They're there documenting everything they see, asking a question from a tax perspective. What is happening in these rooms? In Germany, if you pay money for a ticket and enter a venue where music is played, according to the taxman, you may be having one of three different experiences. You might be experiencing high culture, like opera, in which case the city will barely tax the ticket. You might be at a concert like the Rolling Stones, in which case the city will moderately tax the ticket. Or you might be experiencing entertainment. This happens in casinos, in porn theaters. In that case, the city will take a big tax bite, almost 20%. Before the tax officials began to take a closer look at the club scene, these venues had been mostly taxed as concert venues. But now, in 2008, the city started to ask pointed questions. Was a DJ really a musician? Was a techno show really like a concert?

[Lutz Leitzenring]

The perception that people in government had says a DJ is not a concert. People are going there to have sex or to drink or to whatever, but not because of the dj. They even sent people to clubs and documented that people were not facing the artists. They were talking to each other.

[Chris]

Oh, my God.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

Stuff like that. Yeah. To kind of prove the point that this is not a concert.

[Dan]

Wow.

[PJ Vogt]

I've been in concerts where people were not facing the artists and talking to each other.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

Exactly. But they said clubs is different. People go there to meet people, not because of the artists. They don't even know who's playing. These kind of argumentations.

[PJ Vogt]

Berghain was the club that actually took this case all the way to the High Court. Berghain won. The Berghain, in the government's books, was cemented as a concert venue, a place where people went because they loved techno music. Weirdly, this is one part of the answer to Chris and Dan's questions. What was the bouncer Sven scanning for at the door? He needed to ensure they were true techno heads, not people there simply for entertainment. That consideration, a funny side effect of the argument the club had had to make in court years ago. It may have been part of what filtered them out. Chris and Dan, not true techno heads. Berghain's victory in court meant that any German nightclub that could prove it was meeting Berghain's cultural standards could be taxed like Berghain. Lower taxes meant they could keep their overhead low. The lower the overhead, the less pressure to make money. The less pressure to make money, the more they could continue to keep their nightclubs dedicated to preserving Berlin's strange counterculture. Lutz told me about another one of these battles.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

I don't know if you're aware of zoning, what that means in cities. So there are different zoning laws which says in certain zones of the city, there are certain allowances. So for instance, you cannot build an amusement venue, like a leisure venue, in a residential area.

[PJ Vogt]

Right.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

The problem with this categorization is that you're only fully legal in the very center of the city, where also the prices are very high. So if you want to do it properly, you have to be very commercial to survive. And now that we are more flexible in what areas of the cities, we can establish music venues. We can also maybe turn a form of a restaurant or bar into a club, possibly, which we could not before because it was in the wrong zone.

[PJ Vogt]

It's so interesting, though. It's like you get. But you get the government to classify clubs differently. That changes where clubs can appropriately be in the city. Then if the clubs can be in places where they otherwise wouldn't have been allowed, they can have a different profit incentive. They don't have to just make as much money as possible, and you end up with a different culture. Because of just a change to how the government classified something. That's really interesting.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

Exactly.

[PJ Vogt]

We're going to come back to this strange court case and its consequences in the second part of this story. But before I left Lutz, I wanted to ask him specifically about Chris and Dan. What was it about them, the way they looked, the way they dressed that had signaled they didn't belong at Berghain. Lutz does not represent Berghain, but as spokesperson for the club commission and as a Berghain regular, I thought he might be able to help. Can I show you a couple photographs and you tell me if the person seems like.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

I'm not a selector, so I can only give you my personal opinion?

[PJ Vogt]

Yeah. Is it okay to ask you your opinion on it?

[Lutz Leitzenring]

Yeah, yeah, sure. Of course.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay. This is one person.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

Well, very friendly, maybe queer person. Very soft, happy. He's wearing some kind of top that doesn't really say anything. It's like, what is it?

[PJ Vogt]

It's too generic of a top.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

The vest, I think it looks authentic to him. But this person looked very innocent, you know, and you also want to save some people for, you know, to getting into something that they maybe don't expect.

[PJ Vogt]

Okay, can I. So this is the person he went with?

[Lutz Leitzenring]

Yeah. I would probably send them to Schwarz.

[PJ Vogt]

What's Schwarz?

[Lutz Leitzenring]

It's our oldest, best known gay club. And that's the perfect vibe for those

[PJ Vogt]

two guys because they don't seem like techno guys to you. They seem like gay guys who are going out clubbing.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

They don't look like hard, you know, like, standing in the middle of a sweaty club and going for hours and enjoying this. And, you know, they're standing more like having a chat, you know, like. And that's. That's okay to have some of those folks in the venue, but it's really about getting out of your inner self and showing your animalistic side of yourself

[PJ Vogt]

for very good reason. We do not celebrate the idea that you should judge people based on how they look on the outside. Those judgments often lead us astray. And yet Lutz, from a photo, could tell that Chris and Dan were after respectful, healthy, wholesome partying. Not the sort of darkness that occurs in Berghain's techno dungeons. They didn't belong there. They belonged, he suspected, at another place called Schwutz. I wondered what Chris and Dan would make of that judgment, so later I asked. Chris told me Schwutz. They loved Schwutz. It was the club they'd ended up at after being rejected from Berghain. Berlin, this magical city, had somehow sent them to the place where they actually belonged. Lutz was not a selector, but he did seem to have a selector's eye. Your read is so good. Chris, who I know better, he's a lovely. He's one of my favorite people to spend time with. If I were having a party where it was really important that someone danced in the middle of the dance floor for eight hours, he would perhaps not make the cut for that party.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

That's really, I think, the first question you have to ask yourself, Are you a participant or are you a visitor? And it shouldn't sound sophisticated or arrogant. It's just like a club. The definition of club is being part of a club. If you're not part of the club, why should you being able to enter? I think the idea of just buying myself in is the opposite of a club. What it should actually be. A club should bring people together who have similar interests, similar preferences.

[PJ Vogt]

A club should bring together people of similar interests. Absolutely. But what if you're someone who doesn't belong but still wants to just go check it out? Is there a way to sneak in? Is there some other way into Berghain that is not going through the bouncer? Lutz did have advice about this.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

My tip that I usually give is make a plan of exploring Berlin, maybe from the outskirts. Go to venues that are not very known. Go to places that are somehow interesting for you because you did your research and you saw some artists that you want to see and yet they're playing. So go there and you get in very easy. Because venues that are not very known don't have this kind of level of selection. Usually there's not even a queue. And then you get friends with the bartenders.

[Chris]

You.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

You make friends with the DJs there, and you have an amazing time in an unknown venue with unknown artists.

[PJ Vogt]

Basically, yeah.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

And the next time you're coming, you're gonna reach out to them, and because they like you or they. They connected to you, they will ask you to start in their home with dinner. Maybe you go to a bar, you make and make no friends. And even maybe they make sure that you get on a guest list of some venue that they're going at that night. But I think it's part of that journey that you also have to make to be part of the scene.

[PJ Vogt]

Lutz said the process he's describing this is the real way into Klubnacht. Make yourself a part of the scene. That line outside Berghain, he said that's for People who haven't been able to or who haven't known to try. While Lutz was saying this to me, I was nodding yes, furiously, my noggin like a broken bobblehead. Of course, it all made sense. And as a person obsessed with belonging and exclusion, I was lapping it all up. We finished our conversation. It's really. It's a pleasure to just get to ask you these questions. Thank you for doing this.

[Lutz Leitzenring]

You're welcome.

[PJ Vogt]

We hung up. And then, not long after, the spell of Lutz's idea dissipated. What were we talking about? If you wanted to visit the most exclusive nightclub in the world, go to Germany and start methodically befriending Germans in the city's electronic music scene. Okay, normally that would have been the end of things. And perhaps it should have been the end of things. But not long after this, a friend of mine, an American, asked me a question. They were celebrating a big milestone in their life and they wanted to do it in Germany. In Berlin, actually. They wanted to spend some time there, perhaps even try to see some of the city's famous nightlife. Did that sound like fun? Could I make some time away from work? Yes, it did. No, I couldn't. I bought myself a plane ticket. The myth, hard as it was to believe, was that the door to Berghain, like Excalibur's sword, would be offered only to someone who truly understood techno culture, who understood what the place meant. Could something like that really be true? Next week on Search Engine. The last episode of our season. Techno. Search Engine is a presentation of Odyssey. It was created by me, PJ Vogt and Shruti Pimamaneny. Garrett Graham is our senior producer. Emily Maltaire is our associate producer. Our production intern is Piper Dumont. Theme, original composition and mixing by Armin Bazarian. He also created the techno remix of our theme. Armin Bazarian. Just a very talented man. Fact checking this episode by Claire Hyman. Additional production on this episode by Noah John. Our executive producer is Leah Rhys Dennis. Thanks to the rest of the team at Odyssey. Rob Mirandi, Craig Cox, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis Kirk Courtney, Vanessa Tinkati and Hilary Scheff. If you have a business and would like to advertise on Search Engine, please email us. Pjvote85mail.com subject line advertising. You can also send questions you have that you would like the show to answer to. The same email address. Pjvote85gmail.com if you would like to remove ads from the show, you can sign up for Incognito Mode, our paid feed. You also get bonus episodes. You will hear some of those bonus episodes for free though this month on this feed. Wow. What a deal. You can find Incognito Mode at Search Engine Show. Your contributions there are what help us fund this very podcast. Thank you as always for listening. We'll see you next week. Foreign. This episode of Search Engine is brought to you in part by vistaprint. You know that feeling when you walk into a business and the whole team is wearing branded apparel that they clearly love. Everyone looks cohesive, confident and completely elevated. Obviously, podcasters do not need to wear uniforms, but I have been messing around with internal apparel for search engines and I found that vistaprint makes it really easy. It lets you effortlessly create high quality apparel that fits your style, your business and your budget. You could even have custom polo shirts. You could have structured hats. You could have cozy zip up sweatshirts. It's amazing how looking uniform instantly boosts team pride and makes us look like real professionals. Over 17 million businesses trust Vistaprint for a reason. They deliver the premium quality and trust trusted service small businesses need to thrive. Vistaprint print your possible right now, new customers get 20% off with code [e-mail]. remember, that's 20% off at vistaprint.com using code NEW20.