If SEC expands to 19 members, which schools should the conference pursue?

Summary

Podcast Summary: SEC Football Unfiltered

Episode: If SEC expands to 19 members, which schools should the conference pursue?
Date: August 11, 2026
Hosts: Blake Toppmeyer & John Adams

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles a hypothetical but timely question in the world of college football realignment: If Congress passes the “Protect College Sports Act” limiting conferences to 19 teams, and the SEC chooses to expand, which three schools should join? Hosts Blake Toppmeyer and John Adams analyze the options, debate criteria, and walk through their personal picks, all while reflecting on how the landscape and priorities have changed in recent years.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Parameters (00:01–04:04)

• Congressional Cap: A pending bill may cap athletic conference membership at 19 schools.
• SEC Currently at 16 Members
• Drafting Rules:
  • Can't kick anyone out, only add.
  • Big Ten schools (e.g., Ohio State, Michigan) are off-limits.
  • ACC and Big 12 teams are fair game.
  • Money talks; most schools would consider an SEC invite.
• Blake clarifies: "We're gonna stick status quo with the 16 current SEC members and we're gonna add from the available schools...Big Ten teams are off limits." (02:33)

Top Expansion Candidates

Miami: The Clear Consensus (04:30–14:44)

• John’s Pick: Miami
  • "It's winning, it's going. It was in the playoff last year...[They’ve] got a lot of money... it's been really, really good." (04:30)
• Blake Hesitates But Agrees:
  • Miami doesn't fit "the tapestry of the SEC" from a cultural standpoint, but is a premier fit for the NIL/pay-for-play era.
  • Miami's appeal could make Florida less resistant compared to Florida State.
  • Miami’s fan base is smaller, but its NIL support is strong. Road games there could resemble those at Vanderbilt where visiting fans take over.
  • Memorable analogy: "It's hot. There's a beach down there. But it is not, it is not southern...it's a melting pot." (05:16)

Miami vs. Big Ten/Norte Dame Scenarios (07:16–13:42)

• Big Ten Considerations:
  • Would Miami choose Big Ten over SEC if the choice arose?
  • Would Big Ten reserve their final spot for Notre Dame?
• Notre Dame Discussion:
  • Unlikely to leave independent status even under pressure.
  • "Notre Dame would remain independent. It values its independence above all else, and it has tended to work out for them." (10:25)
• SEC Strategic Considerations:
  • Adding Miami would prevent the Big Ten from poaching them and possibly gaining playoff advantages.
  • Differing perspectives: coaches would prefer adding weaker teams for easier schedules, while presidents and TV partners may have other priorities.

Texas Tech: Infectious NIL Energy, But Eyeball Concerns (15:30–24:12)

• John’s Pick #2: Texas Tech
  • Cites NIL resources, passionate/rowdy fan base, and sustainability as a playoff contender within the Big 12/SEC.
  • "Texas Tech has a really, really good fan base and a very vocal fan base..." (15:30)
• Blake’s Hesitation:
  • Wonders about national TV draw due to geographic isolation and smaller metro area.
  • Concedes that high-profile SEC matchups could boost viewership.
  • "My question with Texas Tech...does it have the eyeballs?...I'm wondering how interested would the media partners...be in Texas Tech?" (18:12)

North Carolina: A Bet on Growth & All-Sports Brand (24:35–28:41)

• Blake’s Pick #2: North Carolina
  • Geographic/cultural fit, big media market, and all-sports athletic success.
  • UNC could help reinforce the SEC’s growing basketball brand, with football ambitions.
  • "It's a state that the SEC is not in yet. It's a state where the SEC Network is headquartered...I think they fit geographically, I think they fit culturally." (24:35)
  • A "school where athletics matter to a great degree."
• John’s Response:
  • Recognizes UNC's academic and branding strengths, and acknowledges that university presidents would love the move, but feels it's not "football" enough.

Wildcards, Memorable Stories & Deep Cuts

Oklahoma State: Personal Ties, Bedlam Dreams, and Realism (29:12–33:26)

• John’s Pick #3: Oklahoma State
  • Passionate fan base, new NIL boosters, renewed rivalry with Oklahoma.
  • Drops a personal childhood anecdote about being called "cowboy" to justify his affinity.
  • "Passionate fan base. It had success for a long time, fell off the map with nil. But now it's... added a big time booster, billionaire type booster..." (30:38)
  • Blake gently mocks John’s Texas/Oklahoma obsession and says adding OK State will never happen.

Duke: Basketball Power Play (33:39–39:18)

• Blake’s Pick #3: Duke
  • Double down on North Carolina market and make SEC a basketball superpower.
  • Acknowledge football isn't their forte, but touts recent ACC success and the Steve Spurrier connection.
  • "I'm going to complete the best rivalry in college basketball and add Duke..." (33:39)
• John's Quip:
  • "Do you think a school that refers to itself as the Dukies fits the SEC?" (34:44)
  • Recalls Vanderbilt's "Anchor Down" as the worst rallying cry.
  • Gives credit for Duke’s academics, but doubts football culture fit.

What About Clemson and Florida State? (40:48–43:03)

• Notably, neither host picked Clemson or Florida State—a major shift from previous years, when these schools would have topped expansion lists.
• Blake: "My, my, how things have changed in a couple years." (41:58)
• John: "Reflexes. We're total front runners. And it's all about, what have you done lately for us?" (41:58)

Alternative Options, Comedy, and Compromises (43:03–46:24)

• Playful banter about compromise candidates: Houston (pro: basketball, con: commuter school vibe and local apathy for Cougars football), more reminiscing and jokes.
  • "You want basketball? Houston's got basketball." (43:52)
  • Blake: "You ever hear anybody say...what time are the Cougs playing tomorrow?" (44:48)
  • John brings up a historic grudge: "Houston played Ole Miss in football and...broke Archie Manning’s arm." (45:43)
• Final thought: Perhaps the SEC should just stick at 18 members.
  • "Maybe that's the moral historic thing." (40:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Miami's Fit:
  "I've thought Miami doesn't totally fit the culture of the SEC...but I agree with you...if you're looking to add a team that is built for the pay for play for the nil era, I think Miami's near the top of the list." — Blake (05:16)

• On Coaching Preferences:
  "The coaches would add three of the weakest teams...make the conference weaker...Coaches don't want Miami on the schedule. That's another potential loss." — Blake (12:48)

• On Texas Tech's NIL Power:
  "Texas Tech, it's got not one, but two billionaires. And Cody Campbell is probably as influential of a booster as we've got in the country." — John (15:30)

• On North Carolina's Appeal:
  "It's a state where the SEC Network is headquartered...You could resolve that, turn North Carolina into a true SEC state by nabbing North Carolina." — Blake (24:35)

• On Oklahoma State and Personal Anecdotes:
  "As a five-year old, I was obsessed with cowboys...So why I might favor Oklahoma State joining the SEC." — John (29:12)

• On Duke's Place in the SEC:
  "Do you think a school that refers to itself as the Dukies fits the SEC?" — John (34:44)

• On Being Front-Runners:
  "We're total front runners. And it's all about, what have you done lately for us? And that comes through again and again in our podcast." — John (41:58)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:01] - Introduction/Rule set for the SEC expansion draft
• [04:30] - Miami: consensus pick, fit for NIL/pay-for-play era, cultural differences
• [07:16] - Miami vs. Big Ten/Notre Dame options
• [12:48] - Coaches’ vs. presidents’/TV partners’ priorities in expansion
• [15:30] - Texas Tech discussion (NIL, fan base, regional/cultural fit)
• [24:35] - North Carolina discussion; all-sports & media market appeal
• [29:12] - Oklahoma State (John’s cowboy story, Bedlam rivalry)
• [33:39] - Duke & the case for basketball excellence
• [40:48] - Reflecting on Clemson/FSU absence; SEC’s evolving priorities
• [43:03] - Considering Houston; expansion fatigue/comedy

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Summary List of Hosts' Final Expansion Picks

| Blake’s Picks | John’s Picks | Mutual Picks | |-------------------------|-----------------------|------------------| | Miami | Miami | Miami | | North Carolina | Texas Tech | | | Duke | Oklahoma State | |

• Compromise candidates: Texas Tech (Blake concedes), North Carolina (John concedes)
• Excluded/not even discussed as favorites: Clemson, Florida State

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Tone & Style

• Candid, irreverent, occasionally self-deprecating.
• Frequent callbacks to former coaches, realignment cycles, and Southern football culture.
• Playful sparring; both hosts highlight generational/media perspectives and personal biases with humor.

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Takeaways

• SEC expansion priorities have shifted markedly, now valuing NIL-readiness and cross-sport marketability over older notions of tradition and cultural fit.
• Miami makes sense for both hosts, but a consensus beyond that is murkier thanks to diverging priorities over football vs. basketball, TV draw, and regional culture.
• Former expansion darlings (Clemson, Florida State) didn’t even make the top discussion, showcasing the rapid pace of change in college football's landscape.
• Sometimes, the best move might be restraint—stopping at 18.

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Transcript

[A]

If Congress gets its way, conferences will be capped at 19 members. No mega conferences of 20 or more teams. If the Protect College Sports act, that's a now a bill is approved into law. Now, should Congress be involved in regulating the number of teams in college athletics conferences? That's a conversation for another day. But who might the SEC be interested in adding down the road if they were capped and at 19 members by federal regulations? That we will discuss today on this edition of SEC Football Unfiltered, our podcast. From the USA TODAY network, I'm Blake Topmeier alongside John Adams. So, John, let's set the stage. There is currently a Bill in Washington, D.C. the Protect the Protect College Sports Act. Would it protect college sports in a productive way? That's probably open to debate. It is a very, a big bill. Many, many pages, addresses many, many issues. One of them is it limits the number of teams that could be in conferences to 19. As it sits now, the SEC has 16 members. This bill, if it's approved in the law, would not force the SEC to expand, but it would cap conferences like the sec, the Big Ten and others at how many teams they could have to not more than 19. So first off, before we get into potential teams that we'd be interested in, John, what'd you think when you saw this news that Congress might be regulating the SEC and saying, no, you can't be a 20 team conference now or in the future?

[B]

The first thing I thought of, well, I'll sit in court. Think how many proposals we've seen in recent years designed to regulate control, put guardrails on college football, this runaway train and how does it end up in court? It ends up with another, another L. So I'll believe it when I see it. But for podcast purposes, I'm fine with thinking about teams you might add. And let me make sure on this, when you're saying you're capped at 19, as we go about teams we might add, or is it okay, can we kick anybody else out? Can we kick anybody else and add more teams or do you want us to stay status quo and then add teams?

[A]

We're gonna, for the sake of this podcast, we're gonna stick status quo with the 16 current SEC members and we're gonna add from the available schools. Now, I'd also like to set some, some more parameters here, John. We can't like plunder Ohio State. I don't know if you would want Ohio State in the SEC or not, but I find likely that Ohio State and Michigan are going to come on down from the Big Ten and join the sec. I won't say that's impossible, especially if Michigan gets involved in another cheating probe and doesn't like the way the conference is punishing the cheaters up there in Ann Arbor. But for the sake of these pod, for, for the sake of conversation, the podcast, let's say that Big Ten teams are off limits. You can add anybody else. I mean, anybody from the ACC or the Big 12. They can pretend like they wouldn't be interested in joining the sec, but let's be real money talks, and they'd walk right, right out of their current conference and straight into the. The greener pastures of the SEC. If, if the SEC came calling to an ACC or Big 12 school, if you're Ohio State in the Big Ten, I don't think that you're walking out of the Big Ten for the sec. So is that, is that fair? We got fair parameters here. We can't kick anybody else out today. We might like to do that, but we're not going to kick anybody out. We're just adding three teams.

[B]

That. That's fine, Blake. Unlike football coaches, I can follow the rules.

[A]

Okay. All right, so we're not going to draft here. You can take whichever three teams you want. I can take whoever three schools I want. There may be a team that we both pick. Might be a little overlap here, but why don't you get us rolling? Who's the first team that you would be interested in if the SEC could and wanted to expand up to 19 teams? Who you nabbing first?

[B]

Well, I think if you. How this has changed in the old days, if you'd have talked. We talked about this five years ago, I would have said Clemson of Florida State, two programs that have a lot in common with SEC schools, programs that have been successful at a higher level. That's not the case right now. So to me, the obvious. An obvious choice would be Miami. It's. It's winning, it's going. It was in the playoff last year. I think it's a good bet to be in the playoff this year. Most importantly, it's got a lot of money and it's had in its glory days. It's been really, really good. So I would probably go with Miami.

[A]

You know, it's interesting, John, because for the longest time I've thought Miami doesn't totally fit the culture of the SEC like Miami South. But to me, Miami is south of the South. You've spent time in Miami. I've spent time in Miami. It's hot. There's A beach down there. But it is not, it is not southern. You know, there's a lot of Yankees that live in Miami. There's a of lot. It's just not Southern. Right. It's. It's a melting pot. It's got. It's a pro sports town. It's. It's a beach town. It's. It's not, it's not the South. It's not the sec. It doesn't fit the brand in the same way that I think adding say a South Carolina years ago or an Arkansas fit the SEC's brand, even expanding into Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A and M. I thought though, those schools, you know, are a little more southwest than, than south, but, you know, very football forward. 100,000 seat stadiums. In the case of Texas, Texas A and M, like they, they fit the tapestry of the SEC far more than I thought Miami ever did. But I agree with you, in this current state of college football, if you're looking to add a team that is built for the pay for play for the nil era, I think Miami's near the top of the list. And you know, you're already in the state of Florida. Yes. But, you know, would Miami be an easier sell to the University of Florida than Florida State? Maybe. And even if they're not, I'm sorry, say if you don't like it Florida, that's, that's too bad because, you know, we've already had the SEC add Texas. After adding Texas A and M. I don't think A. I don't think a school is going to get mad and leave the sec. I think Miami would be one of the best choices the SEC could make. So I'm one for one agreeing with you. You take Miami, I'm taking Miami too. We got the same number one team at the start of our list.

[B]

Blake, since we're talking about Miami, what if the Big Ten offered Miami a spot? You think Miami would go Big Ten or SEC if it had the choice?

[A]

If it had the choice, I think it might go Big Ten. But here's, here's the caveat to that, John. If you can only get to 19 teams due to congressional law, due to federal regulations, well, the big big 10 is already at 18 teams. So would the big 10 really be that much of a threat to add Miami if they can only add one more member? Or would the Big Ten want to keep that final spot open in case Notre Dame ever one day wanted to join a conference? Now, I don't know that that day is ever going to come. For Notre Dame, I don't know that I will live long enough to see the day that the Irish are no longer a football independent and are a full fledged member of a conference in college football. But if you're the Big Ten and you only have one spot to add one extra member, are you going to use it on Miami? Are you going to stick that in your back pocket and save it for maybe a day in the future when some team that you really, really, really want, like perhaps a Notre Dame, could be that last team?

[B]

How about this? What if the Big Ten went to Notre Dame and said, hey, we've got one spot left, we'd like you to join our conference, but we're getting ready to add a team and if you're not interested, we're adding Miami.

[A]

I think Notre Dame might say go right ahead.

[B]

Yeah, it might, because it's got a huge ego. But I wonder if clear heads and maybe less egotistical ones might consider the possibility that would close the door. Close the door to Notre Dame in the Big Ten. And that's the that's clearly the conference with which it has geographically most most in common with. That seems like a would be a natural move if Notre Dame entered a conference. And if the Big Ten says we're getting ready to close the door, so here's your chance, take it or not. And then having to settle for Miami wouldn't be such a bad deal.

[A]

No, it wouldn't be such a bad deal for the Big Ten. I don't know that it would make Notre Dame budge, but I'll grant you that it would maybe ever so slightly at least increase the chance that Notre Dame would think about joining the Big Ten. Because now there's no rush for Notre Dame. You know, up to this point, I think they've always known, hey, if we ever decide at any point in the future that we'd like to be a member of the Big Ten, they will take us with open arms. But this would put a clock on it and they couldn't just sit back and say, well, we could join any point we want in the future because if the Big Ten added that final team and got to 19, at least by federal law. And your point is taken of is anything ever really certain when lawyers exist in the universe? But at least in the terms of federal law, the Big Ten would be prevented from going beyond 19, 19 members. So you're right, it might apply a little extra pressure on Notre Dame and at least give them some pause. I still think Notre Dame would remain independent. It values its independence above all else, and it has tended to work out for them pretty well, especially the past couple years. I know they didn't make the playoff last year. I don't necessarily blame that on their independence, though. And as I look at Notre Dame this season, John, they've been able to create this schedule kind of in the way that they want it. I mean, yeah, they have that schedule agreement with the acc, but that's a pretty favorable draw right now for Notre Dame. Notre Dame's got a great shot to chase the national championship this year with this team. This schedule, nil, I think, has been a net win for Notre Dame. I think Notre Dame's sitting pretty right now in their independent status, and I still don't know if I see them budging.

[B]

No, I don't see them budging now until they start fooling around with the rules a little bit and say, hey, Notre Dame, you don't get to have it your way all the time, and you will be treated like any other independent. And, you know, in competing for that large bit, I think it's very unfair. The Notre Dame gets just a. An automatic. Not automatic, but it has fewer restrictions to make the playoff, not being in a conference. But that's a. That's a podcast for another day, I guess. If Miami. If what? If the SEC said, okay, we can air, we can add three teams. If we don't get Miami, the Big Ten will. And when you start competing for playoff bids at large ones in those two power conferences, they have an advantage over everybody else. Do you think the SEC schools might look at it like, boy, that would give the Big Ten a lot, a lot better chance of getting an extra team in the playoffs, and that could mean one fewer chance for us. How do you think that might be perceived?

[A]

I think it depends who you ask. The coaches would add three of the weakest teams in the country into the conference and make the conference weaker and put more cupcakes on the schedule. Coaches don't want Miami on the schedule. That's another potential loss. Conference presidents, they might look at things differently, which is ultimately, who's going to decide? Expansion and realignment would be a combination of your conference commissioner, the conference presidents and chancellors, and to a certain degree, your television partners shape realignment and expansion. But again, it depends who you ask. If it were up to the coaches, which it's not, but if it were, they'd say, we want nothing to do with Miami and the sec. Bring on Northwest, Cupcake State. We'd rather have them in. In the conference or insert your Mac school of choice. So it really depends who you ask whether they would be concerned about the Big Ten adding Miami or not.

[B]

Well, at least we agree that. That Miami would be a viable option for the sec and we're not.

[A]

Change my mind on that. You know, I don't know if you have to. Yeah, yeah. You weren't always say in Miami, first team off the block there as. As being added for the sec. But that reflects how much things have changed in the last few years, doesn't it?

[B]

Yeah. And another, another part of that could be Miami is as you well know from covering the national championship game in Miami against Indiana. Indiana fans took over that stadium. Miami doesn't have the support that most SEC schools do. So if, if Miami were in the sec, I could imagine Alabama fans or Georgia fans or Tennessee fans going on a road trip to Miami in the middle of the season and having a really big impact on an away game that wouldn't normally get it upper echelon SEC venues.

[A]

No, I agree with that. It has the nil support. It doesn't have the, the, the volume of fan base. You're right. Opposing teams would like travel. Opposing fan bases would like traveling to Miami in the way that they currently like traveling to Nashville and turning a road game at Vanderbilt into a de facto home game for whoever the visiting SEC opponent is. Now credit to Vanderbilt for winning some of those home games that actually look more like road games for them the last couple seasons. But. All right, John, so we're both in the barn for Miami. First, who do you got as your number two team that you want if the SEC is going to run their lead to 19 teams?

[B]

Well, one of the things that the SEC likes to do and Greg Sanke always brings up and when expansion talks come around, hey, the SEC is not like these other conferences world just take anybody from anywhere in the country. It wants something a contiguous state. It wants to move slowly as it extends its border. So it's already in Texas. So now. So why not just dig a little deeper in Texas and take Texas Tech? It's way out in West Texas. But it has one of the qualities that Miami has. It has money. It has nil money. It's got not one, but two billionaires. And. And Cody Campbell is probably as influential of a booster as we've got in the country because he's not only given the money and turning all into nil deals, he's ahead of Texas Tech's board of Regents. So he's got our direct line to the coach. And the coach has got a direct line to him. Hey, Cody, we really need this defensive tackle. Cody says, what's it going to take? And next thing you know, you've got a done deal and a new defensive lineman going to Lubbock, Texas. So to me, it also, Texas Tech has a really, really good fan base and a very vocal fan base which will kind of push the envelope when it comes to game day activities. So I think in that respect, it fits in well in the sec. Granted, it's a long way to Lubbock. It's out there on the other side of Texas. It's not nearby to Texas or Texas A M, but I would love to see Texas Tech in the sec.

[A]

Well, you just, you'd move to Texas if given your, given your freedom down in your mind, you're already there.

[B]

Yeah, I lived in Texas for three years. I grew up in Louisiana, but Texas was always. We kind of looked on Texas, like, man, that's. That would be really nice. You know, it's just, it would be a upgrade over my native state. You know, everything's bigger and better in Texas. And I living next door, growing up next door, I, I realize that as a child, Texas, man, that's where to go. And I was there for a few years. So, yeah, I'm all about Texas. But you gotta admit, when you look at it now and you look at the way college football is going, what Texas Tech is doing, I think is sustainable. I think it could become in the Big 12. It can become a play. It will be a playoff regular. I really do.

[A]

You know, I'm a little bit torn on Texas Tech, John, because they do fit my narrative for Miami in that, you know, they're sort of, if they're proving that they're suited to the pay for play era, there's. There's not a price tag that seems too steep for Cody Campbell to at least consider. They're not interested in playing by any flimsy rules. Even if they got a gambling fiend as their quarterback, they're not opposed to putting him out there. Now. Everybody else was opposed to it, and Brendan Sorsby is ultimately not playing this season. But Texas Tech for the longest time was just fine with that. My question with Texas Tech, and maybe I shouldn't worry about this, but does it have the eyeballs? You know, you mentioned it's. It's out there in West Texas. It's. It's not in the population hubs like, you know, UT Austin is, which is, which is. You still have people that live in Dallas that are crazy about the Longhorns or Houston. Houston's got pockets of Texas A and M and Texas fans. I'm wondering how interested would the Media Partners, the SEC's media partners be in Texas Tech? I do agree with you. They're built for pay for play. But I wonder, do they move the needle enough for espn, abc, which certainly gets a voice in conference realignment? The television partners are not sitting on the sidelines of any of this.

[B]

Yeah, that's valid and I don't care about that. That's not something I consider.

[A]

Yeah, you're not basing your decisions on that.

[B]

No, I'm not. And I don't like that line of thinking. I want. I want some commonality there with what the SEC is about and what the NIL is about. However, I do think West Texas will grow. How much? I know it's got a lot of room for growth, but I have a good friend I grew up with who lives in Midland, Texas. And it's. The population there has really increased over the years because people are looking places to. People are moving to Texas. And I mean Austin, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, they only. They keep getting bigger. But if somebody wants a little more space, a little more backyard, go out there to Texas and pull for those Red Raiders. Here's another. Here's another possibility. You talk about eyeballs. Remember when Miami was. When Howard Stellenberger back in the early 80s got Miami going and turn it into a national power. Other guys, other guys followed. Jimmy Johnson, who was the guy at. From Washington State that went. Dennis Erickson. All these guys had successful. Miami truly became a national team. Now, it might not have had the fans right there who went to the games routinely like most SEC schools, but I think it had. It created a fan base all over the country.

[A]

Yeah, it was a brand. And you didn't have to live in Miami to know and follow the brand. It was the you. You know, the you.

[B]

It was the you. It's pretty scantily clad women. It's the beach. It's a party all night. Bourbon street by the beach. It had a lot of things that SEC fans and fans across the country, I think found appealing. And most of all, if you win at the very highest level, next thing you know, you're selling your. Your sports gear all over the country. It is winning. Winning does that. So maybe that would be a possibility. Anybody that's looking for a new college team and say, hey, how about those Texas Tech Red Raiders?

[A]

Yeah, the other thing, John, I say, how many eyeballs would they get? But I'm sort of looking at this through the lens of the current state. Like, is Texas Tech at Cincinnati in mid October going to be great for television ratings? Probably not. But you put a top 10 Texas Tech team out there against Texas in an SEC clash or against Texas A and M or against an Oklahoma, like through that lens, I could see Texas Tech being a really good draw. So as the matchups improved for them, if they were to join the sec, I think they could be a bigger television draw than they are right now. They're never going to be the television draw that Ohio State or the University of Texas is. But it doesn't mean the numbers that they're pulling in right now when they're playing a Big 12 game against West Virginia in November would be the same as what an SEC clash against Texas in November would be, with a potential playoff bid on the line and those two old rivals going head to head. So even though I, I raised the, the critique, now I'm arguing with myself, which is always the way to make a bad podcast.

[B]

No, we've done that before. But I do think with Texas Tech, I think for a lot of fans, Texas Tech could become their second favorite team regardless of what college team they support. Go to games for Live and Die with every Saturday. They were maybe looking for a second team that their team never plays. I guess they could meet them in the playoffs, but that they're not. There's no real adversarial relationship. There's no hatred. Imagine if, for example, if Texas Tech is playing one of your rivals, how in Texas Tech would beat the rival you hate the most, how that would endure you to a program and they might have that kind of potential. So it could be your backup fan, backup team.

[A]

I don't see a lot of Alabama football fans being interested in a backup team. John, you know many Vols fans, you know many Vol fans that are looking for a backup team? No.

[B]

Well, I tell you what, you say that now, but if Jeremy Pruitt had stayed at Tennessee much longer, I think they would have been looking for a backup team.

[A]

I don't know about that. I don't know about that. All right. I, I don't dislike your pick of, of Texas Tech, but for my number two team, John, I'm going in a different direction. I think this team would have, this school would have both the SEC and the Big Ten interested, and that's North Carolina. Now, I know from a football perspective, you might be wondering, what in the world do I want North Carolina for, But I think they fit geographically, I think they fit culturally. Now, they're a basketball school first, but they're a school where athletics matter to a great degree. I mean, North Carolina is one of those all sports schools. They do well in almost everything. Football is more the exception than the rule. And there have been some years where the football team at least had a pulse, particularly when Mack Brown was there right before Bill Belichick. They had some good seasons under Mack Brown. I know it's not a powerhouse, but it is in a growing state. Population is swelling in North Carolina as it is in different spots in the South. It's a state that the SEC is not in yet. It's a state where the SEC network is headquartered. The SEC network plants its flag out of Charlotte, a state where it doesn't even have any schools. You could resolve that, turn North Carolina into a true SEC state by nabbing North Carolina. One other reason, John. The SEC has now built itself into. Don't look now, but a bit of a basketball conference. How many times have we talked about on this podcast how the last few years the. The SEC has turned its men's basketball from an anchor to an asset, Particularly two years ago in March Madness, the SEC dominated the tournament and Florida was chomping its way to a national championship. Does North Carolina have ground to make up in football? Yes. Do they need to throw Bill Belichick overboard? I suspect they're going to come to that decision probably in a few months. They need to hit the restart button there. But if, if North Carolina was interested enough in turning its football around to hire Bill Belichick and to put up with his 20 something year old girlfriend and all this nonsense they've put up with the last, you know, year, year and a half. It hasn't worked. But it tells me that they're interested in being better than they are in college football. I'm interested in North Carolina. I think the SEC would be. I think maybe the Big Ten would be too.

[B]

I agree with you on that. And you're. You're talking like you just spent about 20 minutes in the university president's or chancellor's office because they would be drawn to North Carolina. UNC has a good academic reputation. So yes, I agree with you in that regard. It's a very prominent school. I think those powder blue unis attract a few eyeballs. So yeah, I could see that. And it certainly would add something to basketball. And the SEC is becoming the conference in basketball. But it's a football podcast, Blake. I know we do A little basketball in March, but it's football. I just don't. Yeah.

[A]

You know who would love North Carolina in the conference, John, would be the SEC coaches. That's a school that I think. Oh yeah, that. Not a bad brand. Might make the conference look good, but that's a team we might be able to beat.

[B]

Yeah, we could be. Here's. Here's how we could settle this, Blake. At the end of this season, we're gonna, we're gonna pick our. We're gonna add our teams and will North Carolina and Texas Tech can meet at a neutral site in the middle of America and play a game. And whoever wins, let's. Let's add them to the sec.

[A]

Will North Carolina be led by an interim coach at that point?

[B]

No, it will, it will have the first 20something female football coach.

[A]

Oh, she just moves to the. Moves to the top. Goes from head coach and waiting to head coach.

[B]

Sure. Yeah.

[A]

Got it. All right. Your final pick, John. Your roster so far is Miami and Texas tech. You're at 18 members. You need one more. Congress is going to let you get to 19. Should Congress decide? Don't know, but they're on the verge of deciding. You get 19 teams max. If that becomes law, who do you want for your third and final addition to the SEC to go alongside Miami and Texas Tech?

[B]

Blake. When I was a kid, I had a nickname. I'm talking about as like a five year old family down the street. They were like a second family to me. My. My dad died when I was 2 and Mr. McConnell kind of was like a dad to me and he gave me a nickname. Can you guess what that nickname was? Shooter. That's pretty close.

[A]

What is it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You didn't think I'd come close? No.

[B]

Yeah. I regret killing those birds now with my BB and pellet guns. But yeah, as a five year old, I was obsessed with cowboys who wore cowboy hat. And Mr. McConnell called me cowboy. Nobody else in the world ever called me cowboy. And I got on a horse at Big Bend national park when I was 8 years old, riding up a mountain. First time I'd ever been on a horse. Totally terrified, traumatized even. Never said never got on a horse again. But Mr. McCall, till the day he died, called me cowboy.

[A]

John, I know where this is headed, but. Go ahead, go ahead. So far we've been talking about you being a cowboy and riding a horse, but I know where this is headed. I know where this is.

[B]

Of course you do. Yeah. I was just trying to give a little history here, psychological background. And so why I might favor Oklahoma State joining the sec. Now that's not the only reason. Passionate fan base. It had success for a long time, fell off the map with nil. But now it's got, it's added a big time booster, billionaire type booster. And I look at what it did this after this disastrous 2025 season, I think it's going to invest heavily. Hired a new coach, North Texas. North Texas State's coach got a lot of transfers, a quarterback that's NFL scouts like a primary running back from ntsu. I think Oklahoma State is a school on the way up. And then we can renew that great college football rivalry between Oklahoma State and Oklahoma and add another one of those old Big 12 schools. Put it back with Texas A and M, Texas and Missouri.

[A]

John, if Congress wants to pass a law requiring the Bedlam series be renewed, I might be on board with that. Not, not big on federal, federal intervention into, into college sports or many number of other things. But if you want to restore Bedlam, I'm all for it. If you want to admit Oklahoma State as a full fledged member of the sec. I don't, I don't buy it. I don't understand it other than I think you have a little bit of an obsession with the state of Oklahoma. Your obsession with Texas is kind of off the charts. Like I said, in your mind, you're living there. You wake up every morning and you look out your window and you hope today's the day. I hope I see a cowboy and a tumbleweed rolling, rolling by outside the window. But your number two pick behind Texas, I think you just uproot yourself and get you a plot of land out there somewhere in the Dust Bowl. In Oklahoma. Yeah.

[B]

Well, see, I think of Oklahoma differently than you do. I think Oklahoma is North Texas.

[A]

Oh, okay. You think they think of themselves that way?

[B]

I think some of them do, yes. And they got a few oil wells out there too. Have you ever been to Tulsa?

[A]

I've driven through once. I've driven Oklahoma City. I got no problem with Oklahoma City and I got no problem with the state. John, I just think my, my interest in Oklahoma does not match your full fledged obsession. I say you already got the Sooners. I don't know that I'm wasting my final pick on Oklahoma State.

[B]

That's fair. I mean, but yeah, it's. That'll never happen. I agree with that. It will never happen. You're right. And so give me your, Give me your other choice.

[A]

Well, I think you will like this one. Maybe about as Little as I liked your final, final pick. I loved your first pick so much that I copied it. Miami. I didn't copy your second pick, but I liked it in Texas Tech. Didn't care for your third one? My third and final pick. John. I've got North Carolina. I'm leaning into SEC as a basketball conference. They've already, you know, they've already established themselves at football. Sure, the Big Ten's little ahead right now, but I think the SEC can. Can punch back, particularly if I got Miami added into the mix. So I'm feeling okay about football, but I'm leaning in even heavier into basketball and making the SEC a basketball behemoth. I've already got North Carolina. I'm going to complete the best rivalry in college basketball and add Duke and not just get in the state of North Carolina, but own the state of North Carolina. Double down with not just North Carolina, but also add the Dukies, a national basketball brand if there ever was one.

[B]

Do you think a school that refers to itself as the Dukies fits the sec?

[A]

Well, I don't know. In Nashville, they had a football team for many, many years that said anchor down as if it was a feature. And how is that an anchor? I think of as something some lead weight sinking to the bottom of the ocean and holding me down. But that was. That was the rally cry for Vanderbilt for many, many years. Anchor Down. And boy, for many, many years they were an anchor. Now they've been freed from that anchor the last couple years. So you never know. Sometimes branding does. Goes a funny direction. I wouldn't expect.

[B]

Yeah, I would. That's a good point. That Anchored down gotta be the worst, worst ever slogan in SEC history. I mean, it was just like. You just imagine this anchor just dragging a school in a stadium down to the depths of the ocean. Good God. But let's get back to Duke. I mean, if I got a serious medical issue, I'd go to Duke before I'd go to Oklahoma State. I'll tell you that.

[A]

You'd probably already be in the state of Oklahoma when the medical issue happened. But in so much as you weren't.

[B]

Well, then I'd go to MD Anderson in Houston.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Go to South Oklahoma.

[A]

I like that you got like your hospital power rankings, John. Look, stage of life.

[B]

It. I pride myself in preparation. You better. You better have it. I'm looking at that Cleveland, Cleveland Clinic, Duke, MD Anderson, Mayo, Rocha. Deep bliss there. But let's not get bogged down there. I just can't buy that I. Blake, nobody called you cowboy when you were growing up, did they?

[A]

No. Nobody called me Dookie either.

[B]

Good. I would be concerned. Concerned. Imagine name a kid nicknamed Dookie. Yeah, he would. He would fare well in the world, so. Yeah, I just.

[A]

You think I'm going too heavy into the basketball. You. You bought it a little bit more with North Carolina. You didn't pick North Carolina 23, but you bought it. Is this just too far into college basketball for your tastes and not enough a deference to football?

[B]

Yeah, if. If Duke. I actually give Duke more credit now, more credibility as a potential SEC school because it hired Bill Belichick. I will say that.

[A]

North Carolina, you mean.

[B]

I. North Carolina.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm sorry. Yeah, North Carolina. I do give North Carolina more credit for that Duke, though. I just. That academic reputation, what did that get Vanderbilt? I mean, it had that reputation. I mean, SEC football coaches love Vanderbilt's academic reputation.

[A]

Well, hey, Vanderbilt's the nouveau rich, John. Coming off of a 10, 10 win season.

[B]

I know it is.

[A]

You know who else is a nouveau riche? Who's your defending ACC champions right now? It's not Miami. Miami made the playoff. Duke is your defending conference champions. You want an ACC team? There was no better ACC team last year, at least according to the conference championship game. I think there was a better ACC team and we saw that in the College Football Playoff. But that's. There's your defender.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

Conference champions out of the ACC are the Dukies. They've had three of the. Three of the last four years. John, Duke's won nine games. They haven't had a losing season since 2021. Mike Elko started the turning, turnaround. Manny Diaz done a pretty good job the last couple years. This is the school of Steve Spurrier we're talking about, right? Where he was cutting his teeth as an up and coming coach, planting his flag, introducing himself to the coaching scene. Already had a Heisman to his name. But that's where Steve Spurrier started climbing the charts before he went to Florida. This the. The defending ACC champions and the school that Steve Spurrier still cherishes to this day for helping him get his. His launch and his coaching career. How about the Dookies?

[B]

Well, Steve Spurrier, I guarantee you he'd be in favor. Yeah, let's bring in the Dukies. I'm all for that. Yeah, that. Well, let's look at that a little closer though. Yeah, ACC champs. But there was like a 15 team tie for first place. And then when you went through all the intricacies of the tiebreakers. Duke came out on top. Here's what I think could do great quarterback last year, coming back to college football this year. And where's he going to do his quarterback? Yeah, not, not, not at Duke. He's, he's, he's in Miami.

[A]

I already got Miami on my roster, so I'm, I'm settled there.

[B]

I just, Yeah, I can buy, I can buy North Carolina, I guess we're kind of on this. I think it's interesting how we looked at the. Our three selections in it. We were lockstep with Miami. You kind of like Texas Tech, and I kind of could go for North Carolina. And then you found Oklahoma State a total joke, and now you're, you're trying to sell me on the dukies and I'm just not buying.

[A]

Maybe the answer here is that even if Congress allows the SEC to expand up to 19 teams, that the SEC should look no further than 18 teams and cap it there. Maybe that's the moral historic thing.

[B]

But, but, but if.

[A]

Here's what's interesting are the two teams we haven't mentioned, John, because I think if you would have, we would have recorded this podcast two or three years ago, which, by the way, we probably did. We're playing the hits here in the dog days of August. But a few years ago, we couldn't have gotten this deep into the debate without introducing Clemson and, or Florida State. I mean, two schools that fit the brand, the, the culture, the tapestry of the SEC as well as any other. I mean, you watch the Feinbaum show sometimes. Paul. Not Paul, John. You watch the fine bomb show, John. And sometimes it's like Clemson's a member of the sec. Clemson fans are calling in to talk with Paul as. As much as anybody. And, And Florida State, I mean, it doesn't, it doesn't get much more SEC in terms of, you know, football and culture and just the lay of the land than, than Florida State and Tallahassee. But we've gotten this deep without either one of them even so much as mentioning them up to this point. My, my, how things have changed in a couple years.

[B]

Well, it also shows, I think mainly, and I think almost any podcast we've ever recorded. Reflexes. We're total front runners. And it's all about, what have you done lately for us? And that comes through again and again in our podcast because, yeah, Florida State, I thought to me at one time, that was the perfect SEC school. And then lo and behold, Clemson comes along and goes head to head with Alabama's dynasty and beats it twice for national. Beats it out for national championships. So. Yeah, how, how things have changed. So who would you. If we. Let's say. How about this? We gotta have a compromise. We've got to have a compromise. I'll accept North Carolina and you can accept Texas Tech. So we can't agree on Duke in Oklahoma State. So is there a compromise candidate we could settle on? Would it be Florida State or Clemson, do you think, or is there somebody else out there?

[A]

Well, Miami's the. Miami's the one we agree on. So if we had to put our heads together, it would be Miami, Texas Tech and North Carolina would be the three teams we're adding in Oklahoma State and, and Duke.

[B]

Well, that's. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

[A]

But I'm not sure I want North Carolina without Duke. They're almost packaged deal, really.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I mean, if you're going to get one half of that rivalry and lean into the basketball momentum of the sec, I say lean all the way in. If I didn't think I could get them both, I might go in an entirely different direction and say, you can have Miami, you can have Texas Tech. You don't get Oklahoma State and try again one more time.

[B]

Okay, I got a. I've got an idea for you. How about we, we saddle up a horse and ride west again?

[A]

Oh, my.

[B]

And go to Houston, one of the biggest cities in the country. You're already firmly rooted in Texas now with Texas, Texas A and M, and we're willing to add Texas Tech. What about Houston? My goodness. You want basketball? Houston's got basketball.

[A]

Houston's got basketball. Boy, they almost kind of feel like North Carolina light, though, as a. I mean, they're, they're better in football. Willie Fritz, really good football coach, done and doing a nice job there at Houston. But you ever, you ever stayed in Houston on a, on a Friday night, John, Gone out for dinner or a libation and listened to the conversation around a bar in Houston, they say, what time the Aggies play tomorrow? What time's Texas play tomorrow? You ever hear anybody say on a Friday before a Saturday kickoff in Houston, what time are the Cougs playing tomorrow?

[B]

Yeah, the Cougs.

[A]

I've never heard that.

[B]

Well, they say it during basket. They say it in March.

[A]

They do. And they're still playing in March. They're still playing into April sometime. So, yeah, maybe I should have ditched Miami and just gone all basketball and said, I'll take Houston, North Carolina and Duke and, and forget this football thing. And the football coaches would have been really happy because they would have looked at those three schools and said, I think maybe I could beat all three of them or two out of three in a. In a down year. And good luck to the basketball coaches in the league.

[B]

Well, yeah, one thing about Houston, I wonder if there's anybody enrolled in Houston, and I don't know what the enrollment is, but it's probably huge. Probably 40,000 at least. I'm just guessing, but I wonder if there's anybody that doesn't live in Houston that's attending that school. Isn't it the ultimate commuter college that.

[A]

I don't know, we're getting. We're going.

[B]

Well, I just wanted to. Yeah, I wanted to throw that out there, and I don't know why I did, but. Yeah. And there is a. There is a strong SEC connection with Houston. You're not old enough to know this, but back in the day, Houston played Ole Miss in football and it broke Archie Manning's arm.

[A]

Well, just for that alone, they should be punished and not admitted.

[B]

Well, that's why they. That's why they haven't been added already.

[A]

All these years later, still serving out.

[B]

Yeah. Ole Miss kept. Ole Miss, kept blocking him. Said a black ball, the Cougars. Yeah.

[A]

All right. We'll leave it there. John, I'm sure we will revisit this realignment subject probably this time next year. It's always a great conversation every August to see how hard you can push for Oklahoma State and some team that's on your mind from Texas in that particular year. Thanks for listening to this edition of SEC football.