Second in Command: The Chief Behind the Chief
Episode 439: Y Scouts CEO, Max Hansen
Release Date: January 9, 2025
Host: Cameron Herold
Introduction
In Episode 439 of the "Second in Command" podcast, host Cameron Herold welcomes Max Hansen, the CEO of Wisecouts, a purpose-driven executive search firm. The conversation delves into the intricacies of executive recruiting, highlighting the distinctions between different search models and unveiling Wisecouts' unique approach to aligning leadership with organizational culture.
Guest Introduction
Max Hansen is introduced as the CEO of Wisecouts, an executive search firm founded in 2012. With a background in running contingent search firms and having hired over 50,000 individuals, Max brings a wealth of experience to the discussion. He emphasizes Wisecouts' shift from contingent to retained search models, focusing on purpose and cultural alignment in recruitment.
Understanding Executive Search: Retained vs. Contingent
Max Hansen provides a comprehensive overview of the differences between retained and contingent executive search firms:
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Retained Search Firms: Operate similarly to legal retainers, engaging deeply with clients to understand their specific needs and conducting thorough market mapping. They are committed to finding the best fit for the role and maintain their reputation by ensuring high-quality placements.
Max Hansen [03:24]: "A retained firm is like when you retain an attorney... they do all the due diligence to ensure you're choosing the right person for you."
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Contingent Search Firms: Only receive payment upon successful placement of a candidate. This model often leads to a focus on quantity over quality, as firms may prioritize filling positions quickly rather than ensuring the perfect fit.
Cameron Herold [04:52]: "A contingency firm is only going to get paid if you hire one of their candidates... they work really hard to keep their brand high."
Max advises that for critical roles, especially at the C-level, partnering with a trusted retained search firm like Wisecouts is essential to secure the best talent.
Wisecouts' Unique Approach to Executive Recruiting
Max outlines the three core differentiators that set Wisecouts apart from other search firms:
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Culture Alignment (Purpose and Values)
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Wisecouts conducts an Organizational DNA (Org DNA) assessment to understand a company's culture, ensuring that new leaders align with both the organization's purpose and values.
Max Hansen [08:30]: "Our bedrock is aligning people on culture, which we describe as purpose and values... ensuring an exceptional fit."
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Role Visioning and Success Outcome Design
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They work with clients to define what success looks like in the first 12 months of the role, focusing on key responsibilities and measurable outcomes rather than broad job descriptions.
Max Hansen [07:15]: "What this person needs to achieve in the next 12 months, what are the three success outcomes... and how are we going to measure it."
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Covert Discovery Process
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Wisecouts engages candidates without initially disclosing the hiring company, allowing for an unbiased assessment of their fit based solely on their skills and values.
Max Hansen [09:18]: "We let them know that we're retained and exclusive by a company that cares so much about the complete alignment around culture and competencies... making candidates feel very, very special."
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Additionally, their Leadership Model for Hiring focuses on three elevated behaviors:
- Relentless Learner
- Developing Others
- Driving Results
These criteria ensure that candidates not only fit the current role but also contribute to the organization's long-term growth.
Advice for Companies Engaging Executive Search Firms
Max shares crucial insights for companies looking to hire or collaborate with executive search firms:
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Understand the Search Firm’s Process
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Companies should inquire about the search firm’s methodology to ensure it aligns with their needs.
Max Hansen [11:07]: "They should have a clear process that in our opinion should help you get more clear on what you're looking for right up front."
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Evaluate Track Record and References
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Assess the firm’s success through case studies, testimonials, and direct references to gauge their ability to deliver quality candidates.
Max Hansen [12:25]: "Understanding the success that they've had by specifically either talking to folks that they've worked with or at least them giving you enough information and case studies."
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Assess Communication and Collaboration
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Ensure there is a dedicated contact person who maintains transparent and consistent communication throughout the search process.
Max Hansen [13:07]: "Making sure that there's one person that you can always get a hold of throughout the process... very transparent on the quality of people that are coming through."
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Maintain Client Engagement
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Companies must stay actively involved, promptly scheduling interviews and making decisions to keep candidates engaged and interested.
Max Hansen [14:55]: "If they're not ready to interview people like you bring an A player to the table... it tells the candidate it's not that important."
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Optimizing the Interview Process
Cameron and Max discuss the importance of a structured and efficient interview process:
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Structured Interview Guides: Wisecouts provides clients with detailed interview guides focusing on success outcomes and key responsibilities to streamline the interview process.
Max Hansen [19:26]: "We put together a very thorough interview guide that's very specific on the success outcomes and key responsibilities."
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Avoiding Over-Interviewing: Emphasizing that too many interviews can deter top candidates, Max advocates for a focused approach that challenges candidates without overwhelming them.
Cameron Herold [16:26]: "The process doesn't need to take time. The process needs to be tough."
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Flipping the Script on Selling: Instead of selling the company to candidates, Wisecouts encourages firms to have candidates demonstrate why they are the right fit, fostering a more engaging and reciprocal selection process.
Max Hansen [21:16]: "You flip the script on them... why would you make a great candidate for us?"
Training and Supporting Companies in Interview Skills
Max highlights Wisecouts' commitment to enhancing clients' interview capabilities by providing:
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Comprehensive Interview Guides: Tailored to focus on essential competencies and success metrics.
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Training Recommendations: Advising clients to follow a disciplined interview structure, listen actively, and engage in meaningful discussions rather than defaulting to selling the role prematurely.
Max Hansen [19:29]: "We recommend that they stick to the interview guide... get silent and listen."
Conclusion: Key Takeaways
This episode underscores the significance of partnering with a retained executive search firm like Wisecouts for critical leadership roles. Max Hansen emphasizes the importance of cultural alignment, a structured interview process, and maintaining active engagement with candidates. By adopting these strategies, companies can enhance their executive hiring processes, ensuring they attract and retain top-tier leaders who drive organizational success.
Notable Quotes:
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Max Hansen [03:24]: "A retained firm is like when you retain an attorney... they do all the due diligence to ensure you're choosing the right person for you."
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Cameron Herold [04:52]: "A contingency firm is only going to get paid if you hire one of their candidates... they work really hard to keep their brand high."
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Max Hansen [08:30]: "Our bedrock is aligning people on culture, which we describe as purpose and values... ensuring an exceptional fit."
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Max Hansen [19:26]: "We put together a very thorough interview guide that's very specific on the success outcomes and key responsibilities."
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Max Hansen [21:16]: "You flip the script on them... why would you make a great candidate for us?"
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