Ep. 466 - Neat Strategy and Operations Lead, Alicia Ramirez-Ingalls

Summary

Podcast Summary: Ep. 466 - Neat Strategy and Operations Lead, Alicia Ramirez-Ingalls

Second in Command: The Chief Behind the Chief with Cameron Herold
Host: Savannah Brewer
Guest: Alicia Ramirez-Ingalls
Release Date: April 15, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 466 of the Second in Command podcast, host Savannah Brewer engages in an insightful conversation with Alicia Ramirez-Ingalls, the Head of Strategy and Operations at Neat, a rapidly growing office video technology startup. Alicia brings a wealth of experience from her previous role at Zoom, where she played a pivotal role in the company's explosive growth and successful IPO. This episode delves into Alicia's journey, her strategies for scaling operations, and her leadership philosophies that drive team alignment and organizational success.

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Guest Background and Transition to Neat

Alicia Ramirez-Ingalls shares her deep-rooted connection to the tech industry, growing up in San Jose, California, near the IBM campus. Her career began at Zoom as an intern on the marketing team a decade ago, where she quickly ascended by identifying and filling organizational gaps. Over her eight-year tenure at Zoom, Alicia honed her skills in marketing operations, analytics, budget management, and facility operations. Her strong working relationship with CEO Janine Pelosi at Zoom paved the way for her current role at Neat.

“I’m constantly taking a step back and going, what gaps are needed and how can either I soft skills fill that goal or fill that gap or go learn the skill and fill it myself?” (03:53)

When the opportunity to join Neat arose, Alicia was drawn by the chance to work closely with Janine again and to contribute to Neat's innovative mission in the evolving hybrid work environment.

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Building Trust and Operational Plans

Upon joining Neat, which had approximately 300 employees, Alicia focused on building trust within the team and developing robust operational plans to achieve ambitious goals. She emphasizes the importance of creating a foundation of trust and understanding among leadership to facilitate seamless decision-making and execution.

“It's the foundation of everything that we have there. We were able to gain a high level of trust with one another, have really strong understandings of each other's working styles and our strengths...” (06:25)

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Advice for Aspiring Operations Professionals

Alicia offers valuable advice for those starting their careers in operations:

1. Be Willing to Learn and Dive In: Don't fear taking on tasks outside your expertise. Interns often start without prior experience, and showing a willingness to learn can set you apart.

   “Don't be afraid if you've never done something before... roll up your sleeves and work hard and make a good first impression.” (10:03)

2. Leverage Team Strengths: Learn from peers and leverage the diverse talents within your team to fill knowledge gaps and drive collective success.

“I learned so much from the just talented team that we had... and try to just see where I could help.” (10:03)

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Leadership and Team Management Principles

Alicia outlines her top three focus areas as Head of Operations at Neat:

1. Execute Consistently: Deliver on commitments to build trust and demonstrate reliability.

2. Communicate Transparently: Provide regular updates on progress, challenges, and strategic initiatives to ensure everyone is aligned and informed.

3. Anticipate Needs: Act as the connective tissue between leadership and executing teams, foreseeing potential challenges and preparing solutions in advance.

“If I am executing and following through on what it is that we say that we're going to be doing, that is going to be the number one way to get your trust and track record with your leader.” (40:01)

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Strategic Planning and Accountability

Alicia discusses the importance of structure in fostering rapid growth. She emphasizes creating templates, setting strategic pillars, and conducting Quarterly Business Reviews (QBRs) to maintain accountability and ensure that all team members are working towards common objectives.

“Creating a little bit of structure helps everybody go a little bit faster... having some structure and then you're able to really make it make sense for the rest of the organization.” (14:25)

In handling missed targets, Alicia advocates for a compassionate yet accountable approach. She leads by asking questions to understand underlying issues before addressing the gap, fostering a culture of transparency and continuous improvement.

“I lead with asking questions. That stems from everything that I do. So is the question of, hey, is this really just going and we had something else come up...” (19:13)

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Overcoming Imposter Syndrome and Self-Doubt

Alicia candidly shares her experiences with imposter syndrome, a common struggle among high achievers. Her strategy to combat self-doubt involves focusing on areas where she can add value, continuously learning, and leveraging the strengths of her team.

“I'm not going to be the leader of this, I'm not going to be the subject matter expert, but I'm going to help add value.” (32:50)

She also highlights the importance of utilizing support systems outside of work, such as her family and husband, to process challenges and gain different perspectives.

“I constantly lean into my family and my husband who do nothing like I do, but I use them and their minds and the way that they think to help me kind of process sometimes.” (34:34)

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Fail Fast Mindset and Learning from Mistakes

Emphasizing agility, Alicia advocates for a "fail fast" mindset, encouraging teams to experiment, learn from failures, and iterate quickly. This approach fosters innovation and prevents stagnation by allowing the organization to adapt swiftly to new information and market dynamics.

“If I don't know how to approach something and there's a few different ways that I can take, I'm going to pick one that feels the best in the moment... Let's make sure that we're communicating that you're doing those things.” (36:16)

She provides a practical example related to optimizing website CTAs, illustrating how testing and iterating can lead to better user engagement and strategic pivots.

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Optimizing Communication and Consistency

Alicia addresses the challenges of maintaining consistency in communication and processes across a growing organization. She implemented unified templates and standardized procedures to streamline operations, enhance professionalism, and ensure that all departments are aligned in their efforts.

“Everybody has a different template... all the same things. Let's go ahead and actually just put my mind at ease. But it'll help everybody, you know, honestly look us... look more polished together too.” (29:39)

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Relationship Dynamics with Leadership

The strong working relationship between Alicia and CEO Janine Pelosi is a cornerstone of Neat's success. Alicia attributes their effective collaboration to her dedication to executing tasks, transparent communication, and proactive anticipation of needs.

“I'm consistently trying to execute, I'm consistently trying to communicate, and I'm consistently trying to anticipate.” (40:01)

This dynamic ensures that strategic initiatives are well-supported and that leadership is always informed and prepared for upcoming challenges.

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Future Directions and Exciting Developments

Looking ahead, Neat is focused on enhancing the future of work by creating video conferencing solutions that meet the evolving needs of hybrid workplaces. Alicia is excited about solving industry challenges related to equitable meeting experiences and supporting employees transitioning back to office environments.

“We are really focused on the future of work and how can our offices meet the new expectations of the hybrid world...” (45:52)

She anticipates expanding their product offerings and establishing new offices to better serve their growing customer base.

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Conclusion

Alicia Ramirez-Ingalls' journey from an intern at Zoom to a strategic leader at Neat offers valuable lessons in adaptability, continuous learning, and effective leadership. Her insights on building trust, maintaining accountability, overcoming self-doubt, and fostering a fail-fast culture provide actionable strategies for operations professionals aiming to drive organizational success. Alicia's dedication to executing, communicating, and anticipating needs exemplifies the qualities of a true second-in-command, making her a standout leader in the tech industry.

For more insights from top-level COOs, visit COO Alliance and join the world's leading community for second-in-command professionals.

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Notable Quotes:

• “Don't be afraid if you've never done something before... roll up your sleeves and work hard and make a good first impression.” — Alicia Ramirez-Ingalls (10:03)

• “I'm consistently trying to execute, I'm consistently trying to communicate, and I'm consistently trying to anticipate.” — Alicia Ramirez-Ingalls (40:01)

• “If I don't know how to approach something and there's a few different ways that I can take, I'm going to pick one that feels the best in the moment...” — Alicia Ramirez-Ingalls (36:16)

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This summary is based on the transcript provided and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and insights shared during the podcast episode.

Transcript

[Cameron Herold]

Hey, it's Cameron Herald, the host of the Second in Command podcast. Before we dive in, there's something you need to know. If you're a coo, VP Operations, or you're in any role where you're the second in command to the CEO, the COO alliance is the place for you. If you're the integrator to the visionary, you're going to want to join us. The COO alliance is the world's leading community for the second in command. We've had over 500 members like you join from 17 countries to grow their skills, connections and confidence. You'll get the tools, friendships and a 10x guarantee to ensure that you get your money's worth. Go to cooalliance.com to learn more and see if you qualify. You can even book a free call with our team to ask questions. Now, let's jump into this week's episode.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

I honestly think the biggest thing that I can give advice on is to just be willing to learn and dive in what's needed. So don't be afraid if you've never done something before, because nine times out of 10, if you're an intern, you've never done it before. So roll up your sleeves and work hard and make a good first impression. I think it goes a long way. Even if you don't get it spot on the first time, that's okay. Learn from it. Learn from your peers. I learned so much from the just talented team that we had. We were a small team of nine people when I first started on that marketing team.

[Savannah Brewer]

Welcome to the Second in Command podcast produced by the COO Align and brought to you by its founder, Cameron Herold. In the second in command podcast, we talk to top COOs who share the insights, strategies and tactics that made them the chief behind the Chief. And now here's your host, former COO of Closers IO and alumni member of the COO Alliance, Savannah Brewer.

[Janine Pelosi]

Today we have an amazing guest, Alicia Ramirez Ingalls. I saw so enjoyed this conversation. She is currently the head of strategy and operations at a company called Neat, which is a fast growing office video technology startup. But before she went to Neat, she was actually a huge major player in Zoom. So she was a pivotal person there. She built and led the marketing strategy, operations and planning, really being a major part of growing Zoom's explosive trajectory and growth. They IPO'd as well as massively expanded during the pandemic. So now she's over at Neat and she has a wealth of experience in scaling operations. In this conversation we talk about her coming into NEAT. They had around 300 employees and what she did in that process. First coming in, being able to build trust, building the operations plan to hit really ambitious goals. She also shared with us her top three focus areas as head of operations, which I personally wrote down, thought that they were so, so, so good, as well as how they create and execute on key rocks while also holding the teams accountable and leadership principles throughout the whole conversation that support all of that happening. So if you are an operator looking to sharpen your approach to strategy execution and team alignment, this is a conversation you do not want to miss. Let's go ahead and dive in. All right. Amazing. Well, we are here with Alicia. Alicia is a team member at a company called neat. So welcome to the show.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Janine Pelosi]

You are welcome. Yeah, I'm really excited for this conversation. You have quite the background and a lot of really amazing experiences I'm sure that you're going to share with us today. So why don't you just go ahead, give us a brief overview of who are you, where do you live and what are you doing right now?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, yeah. So as you mentioned, I'm Alicia. I'm in San Jose, California. I'm actually born and raised here. Had the opportunity of being raised by someone who started out in tech early on at IBM years ago. So I lived walking distance to that big campus and it's just being in the Silicon Valley is in my blood and working hard. It's just what, it's what my family does. So I actually started in video collaboration at Zoom about 10 years ago and likewise to our fearless leader now at meet. I also started as an intern, which is part of my amazing story that I'm super, super proud of. But when I first started at Zoom, I was an intern on the marketing team and I worked hard. I really just wanted to lean in and understand what gaps there were in the organization. And ultimately what I quickly learned about myself is I wanted a full time role there. I wasn't sure about it at first, but as soon as I got in, I took a step back and said, what are the gaps that the team has today and how can I really go and fill those? And that was probably something that fuels me into everything that I do today because that still carries through. I'm constantly taking a step back and going, what gaps are needed and how can either I soft skills fill that goal or fill that gap or go learn the skill and fill it myself? So it's really part of who I am. But over at Zoom, I had the opportunity to really end up owning marketing operations and analytics and budget management, being that FP and a liaison. I even moonlighted a little bit in the facility side of things, and you name it, I was trying to fill it in. And it's really the foundation of mine and our CEO Janine Pelosi's relationship. It's the foundation of everything that we have there. We were able to gain a high level of trust with one another, have really strong understandings of each other's working styles and our strengths, and we have a very strong track record. We had about eight years of overlap there. And as she joined MEET and took on this challenge, she approached me with the role. And, I mean, it's one of those things where you learn about the innovation of neat. You learn about what it is that has really made everything so successful. The passion, the pioneering engineer behind, behind all of the innovation here, and then take that in its own place. It's super exciting opportunity. And pair it with the opportunity to work with Janine again. And having been offered a seat at the table, as you can imagine, that was one that I very, very quickly jumped on and was happy to lean into.

[Janine Pelosi]

That's so cool. It sounds like you guys worked really closely together, so you understand core values and how you think and how you operate together, which I'm sure breeds a lot of trust and certainty when you're making. It must have been like a pretty big decision if you'd been there for 10 years.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

You said, yeah, I was at Zoom for about eight years. I had taken a small career break, and I was planning on just taking it easy. And we had done a lot, and it was okay to breathe, but when opportunity strikes, you can't. I know myself well enough that I looked over at my husband and he said, I know what you're doing. I was like, oh, I'm taking it.

[Janine Pelosi]

So amazing. That opportunity that you speak of, what was that for you? What stood out?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

I would really say it was the opportunity to work with the team again. So don't get me wrong. I knew of neat. I knew of the product, obviously having a lot of interface with that at my previous role, but working with Janine, working with some of the other leaders and understanding what the leadership team was and really how operationalizing a lot of what was going on here would really help bolster NEAT into its next phase. The challenge of that was really what sold me. I could almost immediately see. I was like, if I did this and this and this, and I know Nothing about the company yet. I could see how we could just skyrocket. So it's that goal oriented, high achieving person in me that I couldn't turn it down.

[Janine Pelosi]

Yeah. Amazing. And for anyone who doesn't know about Neat, can you give us a brief overview? What does the company do?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Absolutely. Yeah. So NEAT creates beautifully simple video conferencing devices. So were able to kind of pull in this revolutionating meeting experience and really promote that true meeting equity for someone that's sitting remotely in your office or someone that's sitting in an office. Excuse me, remotely, in a home office or in an office experience, you know, in that hybrid world that we have.

[Janine Pelosi]

Okay, great. And is the client avatar? Are you guys going after more of the businesses that provide this or is it just for anybody can go and buy? Is it a device or is it.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

It is, yes. Video conferencing devices. So hardware devices primarily sold for B2B, but you know, can also be used for your own personal use in day to day.

[Janine Pelosi]

Okay, beautiful. So I'm curious, the jump from Zoom to Neat, would you guys say that you guys are competitors in any way or is it actually, do you guys have any collaborations or what has that experience been kind of being in the same market, I would imagine, but it's different.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, it's slightly different. It's really the same industry and we are partners. So actually partnering very closely with Zoom, partnering very closely with Microsoft Teams. It is core in what we do, so you actually have to have one of those platforms in order to be able to really use our devices. So we work incredibly closely together and it's part of our core ethos.

[Janine Pelosi]

Awesome. Okay. And this is kind of going back to the very beginning of your journey, but we have a really wide range of people that listen to the podcast, so really early in their journey that are just learning and then those that are pretty established and growing really rapidly, fast companies. For the person, though, that's early on in their journey. I'm going to ask this on both sides. One, what is the advice you have for someone that's maybe an intern or just starting their career in ops? What should they be thinking about to set themselves up for success? We'll start there and then I'll ask you the flip side of it.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, of course. I mean, I honestly think the biggest thing that I can give advice on is to just be willing to learn and dive in what's needed. So don't be afraid if you've never done something before, because nine times out of 10, if you're an internal. You've never done it before. So, you know, roll up your sleeves and work hard and make a good first impression. I think it makes, it goes a long way. Even if you know you don't get it spot on the first time, that's okay. Learn from it. Learn from your peers. I learned so much from the just talented team that we had. We were a small team of nine people when I first started on that marketing team. And having the opportunity to sit next to all of these different individuals, understand their backgrounds, understand what got them into the positions that they had, and lean in and learn and try to just see where I could help. So don't shy away from any of that because it can go a long way.

[Janine Pelosi]

Where did that curiosity come from? I know you said that you, you grew up around all of this, but.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah.

[Janine Pelosi]

Is there anything you can point to where you're like that curiosity and drive to learn, where did that come from?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

You know, I've always been very comfortable in that supporting kind of behind the scenes role, whether that was in my day to day. I'm the middle child, so I have two very strong sisters on both ends and I helped facilitate in the background. I'd make sure that everything was going on. But I also always was very observant. I knew what was going on. I had an opportunity. I always use this example. Anytime we were driving somewhere, I asked my parents where we were going and what freeways we were taking. And I wanted to understand how we were going to get there. And I'd stay awake the entire drive. My sisters would be passed out. Even if it was 8 years old. This is what I did. And my dad would always ask me, why is it that you're asking this? I'm like, I want to know where I'm going and I want to know how to get there. So if we need to go back, I can do it again. I think it was just something that was always in me. And I can point to a lot of different examples in my life, but that's probably a simple one.

[Janine Pelosi]

Cool. Thanks for sharing that. So the flip side of that question is what was it that you were seeing or experiencing that made you want to work there full time? So for the business owner that's trying to bring in top level talent and they're trying to create that. The magnet. Cameron talks about it being kind of like the decoys on the pond. Like what are your decoys on the pond that attracts the right types of animals is a weird way to say it. But to the pond. He has a way better way of describing this than I'm doing. But what is it that those attractive pieces, what was that for you? And how can business owners create that in their teams so they can attract top level talent?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, absolutely. I think it goes back to the leadership team. It really does. Obviously having an interesting product is helpful, but it doesn't have to be that. If you have a leadership team that is willing to give you the opportunity to try something, to make a mistake and to learn from it, it one gives you that level of comfort that you kind of need early on and you need to be able to build up that confidence. But if you don't have that safe space to do it, then it's not as fruitful for everybody.

[Janine Pelosi]

So.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

So I'd say that was present for me. But that's also what we really try to implement here at MEET is making sure that our leadership team stays accessible so they can have that opportunity to say, hey, is there a gap? Is there an opportunity that you're seeing and make sure that people can go out and do it? Or if they want to try something, if they say, hey, this is a proposed solution, we don't know if it's going to work, but we really want to try it. Give them the opportunity to try. If you fail, fail fast, learn, grow from it, and then let's continue to move because speed is absolutely one of our superpowers. So finding that right opportunity and balance, but it's really stemming from the right leadership to do it.

[Janine Pelosi]

Speaking of speed, I'm sure it sounds like multiple experiences of rapid growth. What are the systems or the leadership principles that either you or you teach your team in order to get allow your current team members to stay on that same growth rate? Right. Like how do you make sure people don't get left behind?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, no, it's great. As opposite as it sounds to some people, actually creating a little bit of structure helps everybody go a little bit faster. So one of the key things that we continuously try to do is do a lot of that upfront work in creating templates and creating accountability and progress updates. So almost having not a full fledged project plan, I won't say that for everything, but you know, having something like a QBR or having key strategic pillars from the leadership team down, it sounds quite silly to say, okay, why do we have to do all this when we can really just go and execute our jobs? Well, you bring it all back, you have some structure and then you're able to really make it make sense for the rest of the organization. So when you have something that everybody knows that they're working towards, it's a little bit more tangible than we all just want to succeed. We want to hit the revenue target. That's great. But if you're sitting in finance and you don't necessarily bring in the deals on a day to day basis, you want to know how you're going to be supporting those next levels and having some of those strategic pillars and then going back and providing progress updates on them, whether that's on a monthly or quarterly basis and really reviewing how did we do? Did we do well at those? Do we need to pivot? Are they actually helping us achieve our business outcomes? That's what I find to be pretty helpful.

[Janine Pelosi]

Okay, great. When you said qbr, can you tell us what does that stand for?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, it's our quarterly business reviews. So we, myself, Janine, we feel very confident in them though. I know they are a tedious task for most people. But going back and really saying what was it that your team is trying to accomplish? How are we going to be breaking down some of those tactical strategies that, you know, you want to be able to check off the list? And they're huge in helping us move forward. But then lastly, and most importantly in my mind is what's that measure of accountability that we can really have to know that we did it? Did we actually grow the revenue? Did we actually launch a product? Did we do anything kind of specifically that we said we wanted to do? Because then it helps us kind of reset our expectations as well. And I think expectation setting and any stage of a company is huge. And if you don't have that, then, you know, things get lost and. Absolutely. People get left behind and products get left behind and ideas get left behind. So having that accountability metric, I think is really important.

[Janine Pelosi]

The accountability metrics that you guys have, what is the, what's the format? It sounds like you guys have some monthly meetings, maybe do weekly daily updates. Like how do you keep the team in sync on all of these different KPIs you guys are tracking?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah. So I mean, it's going to, it's going to vary from various levels. But if we're talking about the leadership team, we're looking at that on usually a quarterly basis of the full plan. But every single week we have our staff meeting and every single week we're looking through what are some of the core KPIs that we have, whether that's, you know, the top level of revenue. But are we actually delivering a feature that we said we wanted to at the right time, and are we meeting the expectations that we previously set? And that starts with me a lot of the time saying, hey, if this was the overall plan and this is the timeline that we have, how can I make sure that we're holding the teams accountable, bringing those conversations to the table when appropriate and keeping our finger on the pulse, but going to the bigger, broader side of it? We have monthly all hands, where we're consistently reading back to the team, hey, we shared with you at the beginning of the year. This is what our business plan and this is what our key objectives are across all departments. And so on a monthly basis, we're consistently trying to give status updates and give them. Make them feel like they're part of the journey and saying, okay, cool. Like, we know that either we're making our contributions are making an impact in that or that side of the house is doing what they need to do as well. So everybody's moving along, and we feel like it's very helpful to make sure that we have that level of transparency and context shared back with the team.

[Janine Pelosi]

I'm curious, how often does it happen where you're going on maybe a monthly review, everyone's on there, and maybe there's something that didn't get hit. How do you show up as a leader? Or is it the department head that you're speaking to who's responsible for stepping in and sharing, hey, we didn't hit this. And how do you go about facilitating that conversation? Because I've talked to a lot of different leaders who struggle with how just how strong should I kind of set my feedback and the way that I'm coaching my team members and everyone else is there. You don't embarrass anybody, and at the same time, you want to set the standard. So what's your philosophy on handling those conversations?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, yeah. So obviously, usually after the fact, but I lead with asking questions. That's. That stems from everything that I do. So you go in with assuming that someone has the best of intent. And I seek to understand. So is the question of, hey, is this really just going and we had something else come up, or was there a different priority or fire drill that ended up coming in and taking the resource time away? But help me understand what was going on here, because I'm sure there, you know, there's something else there. And 100% of the time they're like, yeah, you know, this project ended up. Ended up taking us five times longer than we thought. But the beauty is we are going to be able to excel so much faster. Like, okay, cool, it was just a little bit of a trade off. But let's make sure that we're communicating that a little earlier on so we don't have the end of the month kind of struggle and quick. It's always the funny thing of us trying to get ready for some of these things and you go, oh, hold on. We saw that the very end and we didn't hit that. So let's just make sure that we can keep a better, a better cadence for updates.

[Janine Pelosi]

Yeah. What I heard in that it sounds like seek to understand, not make assumptions. I know this is a lesson that I learned pretty early on. I had never my first couple hires. I didn't know how do I hold them accountable, what do I do? And I was quick to make assumptions. Something would be done and I would just send a slack message like, hey, this should have gotten done because of this and this and then getting a response of, well, this happened and then I look like an idiot. Early things that you learn in your journey. But now it is the what am I not seeing here? There's probably something having just thinking there's probably something I don't know and what's the word when you're looking at something positive? Oh, benefit of the doubt. Yeah, giving them the benefit of the doubt and really being curious is what I heard. So that you're not also putting yourself in fire if there's something that you miss before you give coaching or feedback?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that goes back to, as I said before, that opportunity to either make mistakes and learn and grow. It's the leaders that kind of set the tone for that. And don't get me wrong, there is a time and place for accountability. If you say, hey, I was going to deliver this, I said I was going to deliver it on Friday. And then Monday morning rolls around and I still haven't delivered it. You know, the more that you actually ask for those updates, the more that I find internally everybody ends up taking it and going like, I personally miss that. So, you know, the leader doesn't actually have to do any of the feedback. It's more of a like, hey, it's Monday and that's all you really need to say. They're like, I know I said I was supposed to do it. It didn't end up happening. This is what I'm going to be doing to fix it and this is how I'm going to approach it next time to make sure it doesn't happen again. I find that most of the time that's what ends up happening because you end up having a little bit more of that benefit of the doubt approach most of the time. But like I said, there's a time and place for all of it. But it usually lends itself when you have an approachable leader that can help support that.

[Janine Pelosi]

And when you were talking about creating the priorities, it sounds like is that just you and the CEO or who all is involved in creating those? The kind of key rocks for the quarter?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Oh, it's the management team. It's the management team. It's all of us saying one, having the opportunity to. We try to do some in person sessions, but as well as doing some remote sessions, but sometimes we'll do leadership off sites where we're really trying to say what is it that we're trying to accomplish? If we all know that we have maybe a long term goal, what are some of the key rocks that we have and milestones that we want to hit along the way and what do we think that we need to get there? And so we bring together all our departments where possible, whether that's R and D and product and thinking through sales and marketing and customer support. And what are the different components that maybe we're not thinking of or not everybody's going to have every point of view on because that's obviously we're not going to all be the jack of every trade, but you bring the right people to the table and say, obviously this is our goal or end goal. What is it that we are the big milestone goal? What are the rocks that we're looking for along the way and how do we think that we need to do that? And it's really my role after that to facilitate. Okay, then how do we actually get that done? What resources are needed, what investments are needed? How can we maintain the level of margins that we're trying to have and really work with the finance team to say this initiative should work out this way, assuming that we can have this kind of predefined requirements around it and that applies for all of those big rocks and making sure that it can also be simplified back up to make sense for other people. Because I'm sure you know this as well and anybody that you talk to, you can get way down into the weeds of all.

[Cameron Herold]

If you're the COO or second command to the CEO of a company doing minimum 2 million in revenue, come check us [e-mail] and welcome home.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

But it's not Going to make sense to everybody if you were to share every detail like that. So making it translate up and down, I think is. It's another tricky part, but it's a good part to. To lean into.

[Janine Pelosi]

It. Sounds like you. So you're overviewing quite a few different projects and departments yourself.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah.

[Janine Pelosi]

How do you. I imagine in the space that you're in, there's probably a lot of roles and things happening that you don't have. Super. You know, your skills or knowledge or understanding is not near as much as maybe the team member that you hired for that particular thing.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, yeah.

[Janine Pelosi]

What is your approach or how do you make sure that you're able to give that person what they need or have those back and forth conversations if they're saying, hey, we need this. But you're like, I'm not really sure about that. What's the balance of trusting yourself and also trusting the team when you guys might be seeing things from very different points of view?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, that's a great question. I think it's a little bit of trial and error, honestly, but I lean in with trust first. There is no assumption that I'm going to make off the bat. So you sit there and you go, this is what I know in my background. What's the background that you have? Okay, do we think that this is a good level of compromise that we could be making and that we both feel confident in? And if we do, then, okay, let's go ahead and move forward with it. And until proven otherwise, then we can kind of move with that motion. But starting with, you were hired for a reason. This is the skill set. This is the. This is the chops that you have. Let's make sure that we can assess those and make sure that you have the opportunity to be set up for success here. And so I think it's a little bit of stepping out of my comfort zone of wanting to know exactly where I'm going to go and how I'm going to get there and say, okay, I'm going to trust that you're in the driver's seat, but I'm providing the car and I'm providing the gas and we're going to get there. But I suppose there's a couple of ways to get there. Let's just hope that we're taking the right one and then if not, then we can take a detour and get back on the right path. But yeah, starting out that way.

[Janine Pelosi]

Cool. Kind of taking a little bit of a pivot first. When you came into the company how many team members were there?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Let's think there were probably about 15 months ago, so maybe like 280, 300.

[Janine Pelosi]

Okay. Wow. That's a pretty big team. And you came in immediately for strategy and ops.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yes.

[Janine Pelosi]

Okay, so I would love to hear. I just came in myself in first, like five weeks of some fractional CEO work for a new company. And, you know, there's this. There's a lot going on. There's a lot of information to take in and being able to, you know, especially on a fractional level, I'm like, okay, I got 10 hours a week that I'm putting in on this. Where do I want to put those hours for you? How did you come in? What was that process like in the first 90 days?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, yeah. I spent a lot of my first time doing a bit of a listening tour. I know it sounds silly because that can be quite time consuming. And I recognize for those folks that maybe have a little bit more strained time, it's not as realistic, but I had the opportunity to do a little bit more of a listening tour. And maybe the beauty, maybe the curse, is that this role didn't exist previously. So there's no real expectation on, oh, what is it that Alicia is going to be delivering in the first 90 days? So kind of having that opportunity to go back and say, well, what's going on in this organization? What's going on in this organization? And understanding some of the processes. What are some of the pain points a team feels today? What are the things that we feel like we have roadblocks in trying to accomplish and really just coming in with eyes wide open third party, no preconceived notion on why something should be or shouldn't be a way and blessing curse, however you'd like to call it. I joined in October and we were on calendar quarters and calendar fiscal years. So that was a very quick. Alicia, you have 60 days, not 90 days, to understand and develop a relatively comprehensive annual operating plan. So obviously we're going to have our financial baselines and that's set, but how can we tie that to some key strategic pillars and some business objectives and rationalization behind the investments that the teams are asking for? So I had to very quickly go and do some of those listening tours, understand, and then obviously understand the parameters that the business had to. What are we working with? What can we make sure that the teams can have, should have? What wriggle room do I have to go and advocate after hearing a little bit more? So, yeah, that was really those first 60 days, I'd say. And then delivering that to the team and making sure they buy in on it as well before you have to go out to the board. And yeah, it was fun. 60 days. But I would say that if I joined at a different point in time, you might not have had that urgency to say, what's this compelling event that. That we're going towards?

[Janine Pelosi]

Right. What were some of the things in those first 60 days that you picked up on? Like, what were the things you came in. You're like, wow, okay, maybe even a surprise. This is going better than I expected. Or you saw it was a really big strength of the company. And then maybe on the flip side, what was something where you're like, oof, we got to work on this.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, no, I mean, doing some of those. Listening. I quickly found that we have some wildly talented individuals on the team, and you realize they were focusing their time on where they needed to focus their time. So I actually had the opportunity to. We're headquartered in Oslo, but had the opportunity within those first two weeks to actually go out to Oslo, Norway, and sit with the R and D team and sit with those leaders and just realize how much innovation is actually in all of our products and touch a lot of these devices and understand it. Not that I hadn't before, but being on the inside, it was something different and something really special. So it gave me a huge appreciation and understanding for the R and D team. They're running, they're doing what they need to do, and they're spending the time where they need to so they can actually benefit from having someone that can say, hey, based off of everything that I'm saying, is this the right path that we see? And almost providing a template for their Miro boards and saying, can we actually present it in this way? Yeah, that sounds great. So being able to almost be an additional resource to some of the things that were already going so well was amazing to see now, I mean, I would say the downside of it is that everybody was doing it differently. So there's no consistency across the board. You have to kind of go in and say, ah, okay. Our sales org was doing something in this way. Our marketing org is doing something this way. The I can't. The most casual way I can say it, the type a person in me was like, everybody has a different template. Everybody's doing something different. There's different colors being used, and I can live with that. But that's the simple things where I can go back and say, hey, you know what? All Right. We're going to one unified template for everybody. Basically all the same things. Let's go ahead and actually just put my mind at ease. But it'll help everybody, you know, honestly look us. It'll help us look more polished together too. It'll help everybody kind of start singing the same song. Even though they were doing a lot of the right things and they were already doing it, they were just doing it a little bit differently, which I think it's just a common problem. It's a common problem when you're small, but it can also be a common problem when you're big. So getting a handle on it now before we started to really grow, that was, that was important to me. But I think it's been helpful.

[Janine Pelosi]

I mean we're, we're dealing with a bunch of humans, right. Like humans that are very different ways of thinking and operating. I think there's a lot to be said about. Yeah. Making sure that there is something consistent across the board that we're all agreeing to because otherwise especially I can't imagine being the biggest team I was on was like 110 people. The amount of cross communications you got two people, your communication's like this. But when you've got hundreds, I can only imagine the chaos that can happen in communication and different ways of operating. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. One of the things I would love to hear is it sounds like you've been, been able to get really close to a lot of a players. Amazing at what they do. Have there been any peak points where you experience self doubt or imposter syndrome in this experience?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, I mean all day, all day, every day. And I mean I joke, but I have lots of friends that sit there and ask even consistently, like Alicia, how do you do it? And the joke in me goes, oh well, just fake it till you make it. But at the same time I do lean in and what I try to do. A lot of the times though, I'm going to be a little bit unsure. Like, oh man, okay. How can I make sure that I'm going to be contributing to something or that I can actually help here? I just really try to focus on what I'm confident in and start there. That's my starting point of like, okay, well I know I can provide some project management. I know I can provide some organization. And the more that you actually start to provide value to whatever it is. One, I'm also the person that wants to very quickly learn what's going on. I start to absorb quickly. But Then the other person that maybe is the subject matter expert starts to realize, hey, okay, hold on, she's adding value. She is able to help do this. And so if you really focus on adding value, the imposter syndrome kind of goes away because you say I'm not going to be the leader of this, I'm not going to be the subject matter expert, but I'm going to help add value. And focusing on where you can add value usually is the catapult for me to be able to go and make an impact in places that if you would have told me a project name and said that's not what I do, maybe five years ago, you lean into it, you're like, hold on. But I think I could probably add value. So let's go ahead and start and then we can go from there.

[Janine Pelosi]

Yeah. So it sounds like even if that subject matter isn't the thing that you're an expert in, what are your strengths? What are you an expert in? And can you bring that into an area where maybe there is a gap that needs to be filled with?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Absolutely, yeah. I think it applies across all occupations as well. I constantly lean into my family and my husband who do nothing like I do, but I use them and their minds and the way that they think to help me kind of process sometimes. So I constantly look for it in my outside life but also really lean into it in work.

[Janine Pelosi]

Amazing kind of tag teaming off of that self doubt imposter syndrome. At the end of the day we're scared we're going to fail, we're not going to be good enough, someone's going to find out that I have no idea what I'm doing. We have Amron. Cameron does. Have you heard of his COO alliance group?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, I have.

[Janine Pelosi]

Okay, cool. So I was in COO alliance and then I've been to a few of the CEO alliance events and at the beginning he'll ask everyone if you currently or have ever felt like an imposter in your position, raise your hand.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah.

[Janine Pelosi]

And you know, seeing everybody, even the people with the biggest companies that you're looking up to in the group, everyone's experiencing the same thing. And there's a lot to be said about the fake it till you make it. You know, just if everyone's going to experience that, it's going to be the people who actually still move forward and are not afraid to try things. One of the things that I saw either you write or maybe it's a company value of yours around the lines of I wrote it down here as a note, a fail fast mindset to hear a little bit of an expansion on what does that mean? How do you feel about that? And then is there a time that you did move forward with something and it didn't work out, but it ultimately led you to a breakthrough?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean failing fast. It's one of those things where it all stems from speed. So you sit there and you go like, if I don't know how to approach something and there's a few different ways that I can take, I'm going to pick one that feels the best in the moment. And hey, if it turns out that it's not the right one, that's okay. Let's go ahead and take a step back, understand why it didn't work. And then how can we actually go and approach it differently moving forward, but still keep moving forward, learn from it and don't let it be the like, oh, well, I'm going to just let that die on the vine because it didn't work. I mean, the simplest example I can use is previously when looking at the website and E commerce, you sit there and you go like, okay, cool. We're going to test if we were to change all of our CTAs, we're going to change every CTA on here and we're just going to say, buy now. What's it going to do for everybody? And you're like, oh, God, that doesn't feel like we can try it. Test and fail is really the best way to try it. So we try some of it and you iterate and you learn. You're like, some people don't want to buy now. Some people really want to learn. They want to be able to demo something. They want to have the opportunity to feel like they're going along the journey with you and they're not already done to making their decision. But that's kind of the easiest example I can give in. That is you go like, okay, cool, we're going to do a small test. Maybe it's a pilot group, maybe it's a cohort of the audience that you have. So you do it with some parameters and some safety measures as well. But you learn from. And then you say, okay, hold on, let's go ahead and pivot. Let's try it again here. And let's do something where we're continuously moving forward, but also getting learnings and baselines for everything else moving forward. That's. Yeah, it's really important to be able to kind of have that speed and be able to have the agility and trust of the team to test. But communicating that you're doing those things is also important.

[Janine Pelosi]

Yeah, for sure. One of the things that you said made me think of this Instagram reel that I watched from this woman, because you were talking about being able to make the best decision that you can. What do you think is the right answer and still moving forward, even if you don't? I think a lot of teams get stuck in this procrastination feeling like we need to figure out what the right answer is before we do anything. We need the right answer. And this woman, she was actually talking about relationships, like, whether or not you should stay in a marriage or leave. He said, it's not about making the right decision, but it's about making the decision the right one.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah.

[Janine Pelosi]

And I thought that was so powerful, and it has really impacted me. And I'm like, so many times now where I'm like, you know, am I gonna get the chocolate ice cream or the strawberry ice cream today? Like, I'm just gonna pick one, and I'm gonna enjoy it as best I can, you know, and just eliminating some of the mental pressure and the running in circles of procrastination and fear, just leaping and going for it and then making the best that you can out of that.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, no, I. I love that. And you're right. I think it applies to a lot of different things. The other thing that people use and I. Janine's shared this with me before, is don't let perfection get in the way of progress. So it all, like I said, stems from. From trying to move and have that speed. But you're not always going to have everything dialed in perfectly. But if you are waiting for perfection, it's going to potentially delay the progress later on. So, yeah, don't let perfection get in the way of progress. Is something that. It's a hard reminder, but it's a good reminder when you can remember to have it.

[Janine Pelosi]

I love that. And speaking of Janine, I'd be curious to hear, before we kind of wrap up here at the end, what is that relationship dynamic like between you guys?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah. Yeah, it's great. I thoroughly enjoy working with her, but I always go back to. It stems from this place of. If I were to kind of simplify it into three words, the reason that we are in such a good place and that we work so well together is because I lean into three things with her. I'm consistently trying to execute, I'm consistently trying to communicate, and I'm consistently trying to anticipate. So if I am executing and following through on what it is that we say that we're going to be doing, that is going to be the number one way to get your trust and track record with your leader. If I'm communicating, I'm giving updates on where things are at. I'm potentially sharing where there might be delays. I'm gaining feedback, and I'm not afraid of the feedback. I love the feedback because most of the time it's impartial to just making what makes more sense to the business. And so if I'm spinning on something for a week and I'm waiting until the deadline to give it to her, why would I do that to myself? I want to share some of that progress and communicate where we're at, just so she kind of feels like she's also part of that and can help provide the insight that she has as the strong leader that she is. And then anticipating. Anticipating is probably where I think people don't realize the benefit really lies, but it's truly there. So I try to sit in the seat of being the connective tissue between the leadership team, between the executing teams, and I give her full credit because that's the way that she really coins me. But being in that connective tissue and anticipating, what are some of the questions that the leaders will ask for if you are pulling together, whether it's a sales planning meeting or. Or if it's a marketing budget review? But for the example of a sales planning meeting, if you're sitting there and going, oh, okay, well, this is what we're recommending for productivity. And I ask the question, okay, well, why. Why are we expecting this for this growth? Oh, well, you know, it's X, Y or Z. And you sit there like, okay, well, have we thought about approaching it differently? And what if we actually put the productivity gain over here? Have we done the analysis over there? Well, no, like, I understand it's more work, but if we kind of anticipate where the questions and where the conversations are going to know, it'll save us in the long run when we're actually doing a presentation and we have that opportunity to say, hey, you know what? We looked at that too. Turns out doesn't actually work out as well as the recommended proposal that we have here. But, you know, you just have so much more validity to the conversation when you're able to kind of anticipate what might come. And I think her and I work really well with those three kind of key components.

[Janine Pelosi]

Yeah, I love those. Did you come up with those yourself or did you learn that?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

I did.

[Janine Pelosi]

Those are great. I wrote those down. These would be amazing to even put on the scorecard if you were hiring a COO or someone for a role like this. Hey, here are the three things. At the end of the day, I'm looking for you to get things done, execute and anticipate. Yeah. Let me know what's happening and look out for the things that I'm not seeing, especially the CEO. You're so busy building the vision and moving forward that anticipating, like you said, the support role, making sure if we're moving forward with all of these pieces, we're catching all of them. And what are the things that are going to be falling that I'm going to need to prepare for to catch?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah.

[Janine Pelosi]

So good. Do you have a flow or a system for yourself or those just things that you keep in mind or do you have anything? For me, I know that this is just something I'll probably forever do in my career. At the end of my day, I write out what I got done that day where I'm stuck, what I need from teammates, and I just pull end of the report for myself and then I tag whoever I think is relevant in it. Do you have any systems like that for yourself to make sure that you're really focusing on those three things?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah. I am so old school in this. I am a big avid believer in having my notebook. I always have my big old notebook right next to me and I'm very similar. I do it in reverse, though. So I actually start my day with my to do list and what is it that I need to actually get done? And then at the end of every day I'll go back and once more that goal oriented, high achieving person. I need to understand if I was able to check off what I wanted to check off, and if I wasn't, then that becomes the next priority for my day to come. So you kind of sit there and be like, all right, these things need to happen tomorrow or they need to happen first thing tomorrow. And obviously based off of timelines and meetings and what's coming up, you kind of sit there and go, okay, what's the start of my day and what's the end of my day? And was I able to accomplish what I wanted to? And if not, then sometimes they sit there and go like, you're not going to sleep well at night unless you do this one other thing. So go ahead and finish that one other thing and then you can go Enjoy your evening. As you wish. But my notebook is closing the loop.

[Janine Pelosi]

Yeah, closing the loop. I feel like even just a physical notebook of writing things down, I always have my Kindle with me because I can have a million things in my head and I will take it to bed with me. I will sleep in my. A thousand loops that are in my head, but if I at least just write them down and I have some sort of plan for me, I find that planning tomorrow, today, at the end of my day, because when I first wake up, I feel like I'm a little bit more reactive, a little harder for me to pick my priorities. But if I write everything down in the day, plan the next day, it's so nice going into my day, being like I know exactly what I'm doing, where my time is, getting focused.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah.

[Janine Pelosi]

I'm just clearing that space so you can kind of disconnect from work just a bit. As high achievers, we like to bring it with us everywhere.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah. It doesn't turn off, but at least you can mute it a little bit.

[Janine Pelosi]

Yeah, mute it a little bit. Yes.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

I love that.

[Janine Pelosi]

Okay, well, beautiful. This has been absolutely amazing. I would love to just tie off this conversation with what is next for neat? What's next for you? What are you most excited about?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Yeah, so, I mean, I'd say next for NEAT is we're really focused on the future of work and how can our offices meet the new expectations of the hybrid world and everything coming out. So with employees returning to offices, they're going to be expecting spaces that can be as comfortable as them being in their home office, and what are the things that they're used to having there, and how can we make those meetings and experiences as equitable as possible? So really focusing on trying to solve a lot of the industry needs right now, that's a huge focus for neat. For us, we are just tugging along. We've got a lot of really fun goals and ambitions that we're trying to achieve. And so I try to sit there and take a step back and recognize the moments that we're going to have in person with our teams and then be able to go back and have good virtual meetings. But whether that's customer advisory boards or opening up new offices, those are some of the things that we're really looking forward to, and I'm excited to be a part of it.

[Janine Pelosi]

Amazing. And if anyone wants to get in contact with you, where can they do that?

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

Go ahead and find me on LinkedIn. And then likewise, always come out to Neat. No and we can help get connected there.

[Janine Pelosi]

Amazing. Well, awesome. Thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.

[Alicia Ramirez Ingalls]

All right, thank you so much. Bye Bye.

[Savannah Brewer]

You've been listening to Second In Command, brought to you by SEA COO alliance founder Cameron Herold. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to like, share and subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and our other podcast streaming platforms. For more best practices from industry leading COOs, visit COOAlliance.com.