Ep. 468 - The Beyond Collection COO, Tony Skowron

Summary

Second in Command: The Chief Behind the Chief with Cameron Herold

Episode Summary: Ep. 468 - The Beyond Collection COO, Tony Skowron

Release Date: April 22, 2025
Host: Cameron Herold
Guest: Tony Skowron, Chief Operating Officer at the Beyond Collection

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1. Introduction

In Episode 468 of the “Second in Command” Podcast, host Cameron Herold engages in a compelling conversation with Tony Skowron, the Chief Operating Officer of the Beyond Collection. The podcast, produced by the COO Alliance, delves into the strategies, insights, and experiences of top-level COOs who play pivotal roles behind their CEOs. Tony shares his unique journey into luxury hospitality, the innovative business model of the Beyond Collection, and his profound leadership philosophies.

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2. The Beyond Collection: Business Model and Unique Proposition

Tony Skowron begins by introducing the Beyond Collection as a marketplace that connects independent luxury hotels with elite event planners. Unlike traditional models, Beyond Collection operates on a commission-free basis, distinguishing itself in a crowded marketplace.

Tony Skowron ([04:38]): “We connect independent luxury hotels with elite event planners… what makes us unique is we're commission free. We pride ourselves on connection and relationship over just a transaction.”

Financial Model:
Instead of charging a percentage of revenue, Beyond Collection employs a subscription-based model. Hotels pay for different levels of access to detailed information, granting them connections to top-tier planners without the additional commission fees.

Tony Skowron ([04:40]): “Our financial model is essentially charging the hotels different layers of access to detailed information that gives them access to the best planners.”

This approach not only ensures recurring revenue for the company but also provides hotels with a sustainable way to engage with high-end event planners, fostering long-term relationships rather than short-term transactions.

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3. Tony Skowron’s Journey to COO

Tony’s path to becoming the COO of the Beyond Collection is anything but conventional. He did not start in luxury hospitality, which is typically an industry where individuals grow within the sector for decades.

Tony Skowron ([07:39]): “I started in a completely different business… honed my leadership skills through diverse experiences.”

Early Life and Career:
Tony grew up in a challenging and structured environment, leaving home at 19 after graduating high school early. His early work experiences ranged from being a head chef at 17 to roles in construction and industrial supplies, exemplifying his strong work ethic and adaptability.

Tony Skowron ([15:13]): “I was born and raised into a very religiously structured, almost, you could say a cult… very shrouded from the rest of the world.”

Transition to Luxury Hospitality:
Tony’s entry into luxury hospitality was facilitated by his exposure to the Ritz-Carlton Leadership Academy, which ignited his passion for leadership training and white-glove service. His commitment led him to apply for a position at the Beyond Collection, where his unique background and keen leadership insights made him the ideal candidate despite lacking direct industry experience.

Tony Skowron ([12:22]): “She was looking for someone who'd done it before, though… the relationship where we would debate, we would argue...”

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4. Leadership Philosophy and Strategies

Tony emphasizes the importance of leadership development and the role of a COO in fostering a collaborative and insightful organizational environment.

Community and Loneliness of Leadership:
Being a COO often entails a sense of loneliness, as Tony explains the unique challenges of being the second in command.

Tony Skowron ([21:17]): “Leadership is lonely. Being at the top of an org chart is lonely because you don't have those relationships to the degree you do with your peers.”

To combat this, the COO Alliance serves as a supportive community, providing COOs with the tools, connections, and confidence needed to excel in their roles.

Approach to Management and Decision-Making:
Tony advocates for a question-based approach to decision-making, fostering critical thinking and rigorous analysis among team members.

Tony Skowron ([24:48]): “Start converting everything into a question. Why is this important to you? … Tell me more.”

By encouraging employees to articulate the importance of their ideas and break down their thought processes, Tony ensures that decisions are aligned with core business objectives and are well-executed.

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5. Initiatives at Beyond Collection

One of Tony’s significant contributions to the Beyond Collection is the implementation of leadership training programs tailored for independent hotels.

Leadership Training for Independent Hotels:
Recognizing that big brands like Ritz-Carlton and Marriott have extensive internal leadership programs, Tony and CEO Danielle aim to bridge this gap for independent properties through the Beyond Collection.

Tony Skowron ([35:56]): “...we have to give back and invest in these people and see an elevated rise.”

In-Person Leadership Forums:
Beyond theoretical training, they organize in-person forums and experiential activities to foster leadership qualities and team cohesion. An example mentioned was an event in the Dominican Republic where participants engaged in activities like ice-cold plunges, designed to enhance bravery and emotional resilience.

Tony Skowron ([38:00]): “There was multiple people that were like there's no way I'm doing that… translating directly into life leadership, management, working with people.”

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6. Lessons Learned and Advice

Throughout the conversation, Tony shares valuable lessons gleaned from his diverse experiences and offers advice to his younger self.

Key Leadership Lessons:

• Understanding Role Evolution:
  Tony highlights how roles evolve as companies grow, emphasizing that COOs must adapt to the changing demands of their positions.

  Tony Skowron ([40:45]): “Understanding how a role changes with the size of a company. A company will outgrow an employee or employee will outgrow a company.”

• Teaching Employees to Think:
  At higher managerial levels, the focus shifts from **“what” and “how” to “strategic thinking”.

  Tony Skowron ([41:07]): “Directors, you're teaching people how to think…”

Advice to Younger Self:

Tony’s poignant advice to his younger self encapsulates the essence of his journey and growth.

Tony Skowron ([44:58]): “Slow down and invest in you. Because you have the energy and the enthusiasm and even potentially the charisma to really influence the world.”

This advice underscores the importance of self-investment, self-awareness, and mindful leadership.

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7. Conclusion

Episode 468 of the “Second in Command” Podcast offers a deep dive into Tony Skowron’s multifaceted role as COO of the Beyond Collection. His unconventional path into luxury hospitality, combined with his dedication to leadership development and operational excellence, provides invaluable insights for aspiring COOs and business leaders alike. Tony’s emphasis on relationship-building, critical thinking, and personal growth resonates as a blueprint for effective second-in-command professionals aiming to support and enhance the visions of their CEOs.

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Notable Quotes:

• Tony Skowron ([04:38]): “We connect independent luxury hotels with elite event planners… what makes us unique is we're commission free. We pride ourselves on connection and relationship over just a transaction.”

• Tony Skowron ([24:48]): “Start converting everything into a question. Why is this important to you? … Tell me more.”

• Tony Skowron ([44:58]): “Slow down and invest in you. Because you have the energy and the enthusiasm and even potentially the charisma to really influence the world.”

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This episode not only highlights the strategic role of a COO but also emphasizes the importance of personal resilience and continuous learning in leadership. Tony Skowron’s experiences and methodologies offer a rich resource for anyone looking to excel in second-in-command roles within their organizations.

Transcript

[Cameron Herold]

Hey, it's Cameron Herald, the host of the Second in Command podcast. Before we dive in, there's something you need to know. If you're a coo, VP Operations, or you're in any role where you're the second in command to the CEO, the COO alliance is the place for you. If you're the integrator to the visionary, you're going to want to join us. The COO alliance is the world's leading community for the second in command. We've had over 500 members like you join from 17 countries to grow their skills, connections and confidence. You'll get the tools, friendships, and a 10x guarantee to ensure that you get your money's worth. Go to COO alliance.com to learn more and see if you qualify. You can even book a free call with our team to ask questions. Now, let's jump into this week's episode.

[Tony Scowron]

The one thing a CEO does, good one is you're always passionately debating to get to truth. You're trying to get to actually what really matters. Because in the swirl of vision and ideas and creativity and this, you have to distill that down to does this align? And even if it does align, is it the right time? And even if it's the right time and it does align, but do we have the resources and the right things to actually ensure that a successful execution? And during those, I learned a lot of doing it the wrong way. Welcome to the Second in Command podcast produced by the CEO COO alliance and brought to you by its founder, Cameron Herold. In the second in command podcast, we talk to top COOs who share the insights, strategies and tactics that made them the chief behind the Chief. And now, here's your host, Cameron Herold.

[Cameron Herold]

In this episode, we have a conversation with a COO who brings a truly unique perspective to the world of luxury hospitality. Tony Scowron is the Chief Operating Officer at the Beyond Collection, a marketplace connecting independent luxury hotels with elite event planners, all while breaking the mold with a commission free model. Tony's journey to the COO role is anything but traditional. From navigating a challenging early life and entering the workforce at a young age to honing his leadership skills through diverse experiences and a deep commitment to development. Tony's story is one of resilience and continuous growth. Join us as we explore the innovative business model of the Beyond Collection and how they foster relationship over transactions. Tony's unconventional path into luxury hospitality and the valuable lessons learned along the way, his powerful insights into leadership at different organizational levels and the Art of asking the right question. The critical role of a CEO in partnering with a visionary CEO and driving operational excellence. And a look at the Beyond Collections exciting initiative to bring leadership training to the independent hotel sector. So without further ado, let's dive into my conversation with Tony. So Tony, welcome to the Second Command podcast. Thank you.

[Tony Scowron]

Glad to be here, man.

[Cameron Herold]

Looking forward to it. I just realized that we are sitting together about two hours before our in person CEO Alliance Connect event happens in Vancouver. We're filming another episode in person, which is kind of cool. And you are also a CEO alliance member. So I'm going to get to talk to you a little bit about why you joined the CEO alliance, what you loved about the CEO Alliance. But I really want to make this about your experience as a COO and building out your company called the Beyond Collection. So why don't we start with that. Tell us what the Beyond Collection is and kind of how you got there.

[Tony Scowron]

Oh, that's a great question. So Beyond Collection, we are essentially a marketplace. We, we connect independent luxury hotels that are specifically independent. So they think of not like your Ritz Carlton, St. Regis, those large branded brands, but those independent super luxury, awesome properties, resorts, hotels, both in city and really around the entire world. We connect them with event planners, but really the event planners that are not your average event planner because they're probably not booking places that charge $800, $1,200 a night. So it's some of your higher end corporations events. And so we, we connect them. What makes us unique is we're commission free. So we're not unique in this space of connecting them. But most companies that do that actually just charge a commission on the business that gets booked to the hotel. We don't do that. So we have a little bit a different way of doing it. We pride ourselves on connection and relationship over just a transaction.

[Cameron Herold]

What's your financial model? How do you make money?

[Tony Scowron]

Financial model is essentially charging the hotels different layers of access to detailed information that gives them access to the best planners.

[Cameron Herold]

Wow.

[Tony Scowron]

Yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

So you're not actually charging a percentage of revenue at all. It's more of a subscription kind of model. Because those hotels want that recurring revenue and. And they want your database of planners.

[Tony Scowron]

Correct.

[Cameron Herold]

How do you continue to have that relationship with the planners when the hotels now know them and now they have that relationship with those planners? Why do they continue on with the subscription for you?

[Tony Scowron]

It's a great question. So planners by their very nature are kind of almost immune to being spoiled. They're immune to Luxury. A better way of saying it is they're, they're very spoiled and treated in a way that is just from everyone in the industry that is going after their business and rightfully so. They've got great business, they're responsible for a lot of really great programs. And so we try to connect that and really foster that relationship. So technically, yes, a hotel can actually, you know, maintain a relationship with a planner. But doing that through our community and continuing a planner may not go back to the same property. Okay, right. They're going to bounce around a little bit or come back.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah, they're not going to get enough business, you know, one planner to make it for a while. So they need the relationship with you. I have to look at. And where do you find the, is the harder part of your model finding the planners or is the harder finding your model finding because you're like a two sided marketplace. That's right. Or is the, or is it finding the actual hotel properties?

[Tony Scowron]

It's a great question we have. It's probably, it's probably 50, 50. So there's quite a few properties that absolutely want business, but they want an roi. So rather a commission is easy. You sign up low cost to entry and you can immediately just whatever business books you have to pay a commission on that. But if a lot of business books, you pay a lot of commission. So the non commission model is actually very attractive for properties that do a lot of group production business.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah.

[Tony Scowron]

And so finding the planners, making sure that we have the right planners, we're very picky, we want them qualified. Just because you say you're a planner, you might not book business within our collection. Your budget might be a little bit different. So we are very thinking about ensuring that the quality of our planners is above anything else.

[Cameron Herold]

Interesting. All right, so I want you to connect with me after we finish filming. Years ago I used to coach a company called MCI Global. And MCI is based out of Geneva, Switzerland. They're the largest meeting and planning company I think of now in the world. Or maybe in the top two or three. Do you know mci? You heard of them?

[Tony Scowron]

I've heard of them.

[Cameron Herold]

So Sebastian Tonder is their CEO and I did their strategic planning meetings five years in a row. I led the strategic planning. They operated in like 25 countries, about a $900 million company and system wide sales. So I'll introduce you to them. They only do these high end events and they love your kind of properties. So that, that logically makes sense to me. All right, how did you get involved in the industry because I know you have an interesting past. So how do you get involved in the industry?

[Tony Scowron]

So I didn't start in luxury, which is in hospitality, specifically luxury hospitality. It's. Which is unique. Most people, once they kind of get a taste of this business, they grow up in the business and you. It's not uncommon to have like I've met people who have been in the business 40, 50 years. And so I started in a completely different business. Kind of cut my teeth in leadership. Learned a lot of things the wrong way. School of hard knocks and grew up, was a VP and then a COO of a very large growing organization. Ended up exiting that business through a variety of different reasons. It was the right time to kind of move in a different direction. Did consulting for a while, which was really rewarding. But there I had gotten kind of a hook where there was an itch that I had attended the Leadership Leadership Academy that Ritz Carlton puts on. SC Leadership Academy, which is quite, really solid teaching. It's not that expensive. Shameless plug for it.

[Cameron Herold]

Did you go in outsider or was that from inside the industry? You went as an outsider? You just signed up to go?

[Tony Scowron]

No, I went as part of the. My previous organization I was with and we actually ended up having them come to us and do an in person training. And it was pretty deep. Through that process I became close with a lot of multiple people that were in the Ritz Carlton Leadership Academy. So when I exited, I actually wanted to get into that because I had a passion for leadership training. I had a passion for principles tied to white glove service or ladies and gentlemen serving ladies and gentlemen, that whole process. And Marriott does such an incredible job as this behemoth of an organization of creating training programs for their industry, specifically for their collection of hotels.

[Cameron Herold]

And Ritz Carlton is part of their group. Yep, gotcha. And then I got.

[Tony Scowron]

I got really intrigued by the Ritz Carlton yacht collection. Ended up applying for a job there and kind of made my way actually through it a little bit, which is interesting to see if that would have turned out. But during that process that I saw this position for the Beyond Collection. And by the way, I was just.

[Cameron Herold]

On the new Ritz Carlton yacht in Portugal earlier this year. They did the Atlantic crossing and I was on. That was. It was fantastically. Oh my God. Beautiful. It makes it. Honestly, it's like Tesla makes all other cars seem cheap. The Ritz Carlton boat makes all other cruise lines seem like holiday and hotels down the water.

[Tony Scowron]

Yep.

[Cameron Herold]

It's weird.

[Tony Scowron]

Yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

Restaurants are first class. There's no buffets. You're not lying up behind anybody who's unhealthy. The spa is incred. The spa is world class. The gym is world. The gym is unbelievable.

[Tony Scowron]

Yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

The rooms were huge. Like, it was. It was actually kind of laughable how good it was.

[Tony Scowron]

That's.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tony Scowron]

So it was a.

[Cameron Herold]

And I've done a bunch of cruises over the years and the Ritz Carlton yacht was. Yeah. Neck.

[Tony Scowron]

That is so cool. So I. And this actually comes full circle because this is actually how I became intrigued with the CLO alliance and specifically Cameron Herald. So I applied to the Beyond Collection, but the role was actually being hired by a company called Spyglass. Johnna Lee, you know her. And so I. I ended up applying for that and then kind of became intrigued with that organization. Ended up kind of following some similar people on LinkedIn. One of the people that I followed was Cameron Herald. At the same time, you had recently posted something about. You had just finished the book, second in command, I believe.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah.

[Tony Scowron]

And you were offering it to any COO for free if they would message you.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah.

[Tony Scowron]

And within a certain time frame, I messaged you. I don't know if you remember this. No, this was in early. It was about a year ago. 2024. Early 24. Crazy message you and you're like, yep, books in the mail.

[Cameron Herold]

We just. We just did some numbers and I was shouting with Meredith, who's worked with me for nine years now, about the number of people we've sent free copies of the book, the Second in Command out to. Yep. And by the way, if you're a COO or CEO, and as long as your company does more than 5 million or greater and you're in the US or Canada, I will send you a book. I'll even pay for the shipping. But we're getting so many new members who have signed up because they've read the book or their CEO has read the book. So. Yeah, that's cool to know.

[Tony Scowron]

So applied for the job. And my first interview specifically with the CEO wasn't my first interview. I think I worked with Spyglass first, but first my first interview with Danielle, the owner and CEO of the Beyond Collection. The. Your name popped up and I literally reached over and I was like, imagine that I'm literally reading his book. It was within, just. It's always kind of one of those, like, weird moments that was like, perfect timing to be so meant to be. And then became pretty passionate about joining the CEO alliance.

[Cameron Herold]

Why did she hire you? What was she Looking for that she saw in you as the CEO, because I think it's a good signal for people that want to become a CEO or want to move up into being a CEO role. What did she see in you? Because you didn't have industry experience.

[Tony Scowron]

Yep.

[Cameron Herold]

What did you have?

[Tony Scowron]

That's a great question. I think I know the answer to this. So, Danielle, if you're watching, you can correct me. You can send me a text, but I think I know the answer. Specifically, she was looking for someone who'd done it before, though. She's looking for not just Ben, a CEO. And just to come back to a question, but just a slight sidebar, being a CEO especially is a. And you. You tell this extremely well in the second command book. It's a very unique skill set. And everyone is different in the sense of you have to be able to be the yin to the yang of that CEO and be able to fill in those gaps of a CEO, especially a very. Danielle is an extraordinarily ambitious idea generating, very strategic, very visionary. Coming up with a million ideas a second. And I'd work for someone who is just like that and have the relationship where we would debate, we would argue, I don't like your idea. We vigorously debate. Even some other people in my former executive team would be like, mom and dad are fighting. And. And I shared some of the stuff with Danielle, and she was like, I want that.

[Cameron Herold]

Perfect. Yeah. So she got it.

[Tony Scowron]

She got it.

[Cameron Herold]

You know, it's interesting that you said that. Danielle, if you're watching, I hope you kind of can kind of validate me if this is correct or not. I'd never thought of this before, but it's really important that when we hire someone, after we hire them, we let them know, by the way, this is why I hired you. This is what I liked. This is what I saw. This is what made me nervous. This is what I'm still a little unsure about. To kind of really set you up for almost that first professional development plan.

[Tony Scowron]

And I guarantee she. I probably just got it. Yeah, yeah. I guarantee she's very good at passing on feedback and communication. She's an open book. But one of the points on the COO specifically, though, just because you have COO on your resume or you've been it before, it's on a. Doesn't mean you're necessarily a coo.

[Cameron Herold]

No, it means I've got a big title on something. Be to dig in to find out what were your rollout flauntability and how much autonomy did you have.

[Tony Scowron]

Completely agree.

[Cameron Herold]

Jake, insight. Did you bring in P and L responsibility? What metrics were you accountable for? How big was your organization? There's so much in there because, yeah, people, we've had a lot of title inflation over the years.

[Tony Scowron]

Agreed.

[Cameron Herold]

So I'm going to talk to you about that in a second about what your prior COO VP role was. I talked to you about why you left that organization, but I want to go backwards a little bit because your starting point in the business world was different from many. All of our starting points were different, but you started pretty young. I want you to walk me through what happened. You left home at 15. I don't know if you want to talk about why and how you got there and then how you, how do you grow up at 15, leaving home?

[Tony Scowron]

Well, so I, I graduated high school at 15. I actually, I didn't leave home until 19, but I graduated no one early. Right. I did not go to college. I was homeschooled. I wanted to get a job. I wanted out of the house. I grew up in a very challenging environment, very structured in a very toxic way.

[Cameron Herold]

And it was like very rules and following these systems or no.

[Tony Scowron]

So I was born. I was born and raised into a very religiously structured, almost, you could say a cult.

[Cameron Herold]

Okay.

[Tony Scowron]

And so it was extremely, extremely hard to tell. Yeah, It's a non. It's a non name.

[Cameron Herold]

Oh, wow.

[Tony Scowron]

I don't know, maybe something very culty.

[Cameron Herold]

Religious.

[Tony Scowron]

Very cult.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah.

[Tony Scowron]

There might be, there might be even a Netflix special.

[Cameron Herold]

There's actually Netflix. There's actually a special called A Little Bit Culty. It's a podcast and I was actually, I was on the Little Bit Culty podcast. I need to check it out. I was interviewed on how businesses can take culture and go too far and where the line is between culture and cult. And I just had lunch the other day with someone in a very religious cult who left and yeah, wife left the religious cult as well. Yeah. But theirs was. They, they weren't kind of shrouded from the rest of the world. Were you protected from the rest of the world or did you know that and stuff too?

[Tony Scowron]

Yeah. So very shrouded from that very. No access to really learning role models to follow. So I, I.

[Cameron Herold]

Did you have TV and in and out? Nothing. Okay. But you were pretty closed off from that.

[Tony Scowron]

Oh, yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

And you left at 15.

[Tony Scowron]

Yep. So jumped into the workforce.

[Cameron Herold]

Where's it?

[Tony Scowron]

Is it. Well, I didn't leave the house. I didn't leave the house until 19, but I. 15 is, is when I went into the workforce and I tried to work as much as I could. Some cases were three jobs. So I was. I was a chef of a restaurant when I was 17 years old, head chef, running things, had dishes under me and servers and stuff. I don't think anyone who's working there may have not known exactly how old I was. I was in construction, cabinet making. Ended up getting into industrial supplies, working as a purchasing manager, just doing almost anything that I could to broaden myself in the work world. I love to work, I love to make money. I love to apply myself. But during that process, I started to recognize deficiencies in myself of knowing how to handle situations.

[Cameron Herold]

Okay, I want to ask about the deficiencies in a second, but I want to ask you about, about something else. I spent some time in prison about eight years ago for a day in a maximum level four state penitentiary coaching prisoners who were getting out of prison. Some of them had been in prison for 18 years, some 34 years. And I talked to a guy who'd been in prison for about 25 years who was getting out, and he was talking about all of the things that were so hard on him that made him, that gave him character. Yes, he was a bad human in some ways, but he was relying on some of the character that he'd learned.

[Tony Scowron]

Right.

[Cameron Herold]

Some of the toughness. So can you speak to some of the character and the things that came out of that adversity of growing up in a cult that made always a great question, like what was the good, what was the half full that came out of that half empty experience.

[Tony Scowron]

You learned, number one, you learned how to, how to work hard, learn how to apply your conscientiousness of applying yourself dual to some work ethic. Yes, that was absolutely a silver lining that carried, you know, through to this day in terms of kind of entrepreneurship. You wanted to create something, you wanted to grow, and that was fantastic. Another one would, would be just the ability to be personally creative. You know, a lot of times you see that some of that creativity stifled in a lot of people who are just exposed to everything of video games and Internet and TV and stuff. They don't have to be right. Let that personal creativity come out.

[Cameron Herold]

So you had to give yourself an escape or to give you absolutely dreams. Okay.

[Tony Scowron]

Yep. So that I, I would say those were balance.

[Cameron Herold]

And I'm curious. One of the things that I learned, Doc, in my college Pro Painters days, which was very culty, it's where I learned about company culture and to build a business a little bit more Than a business, a little bit less than a religion in that zone of a cult.

[Tony Scowron]

Yep.

[Cameron Herold]

And they, they taught us at college pro to build blame yourself when something goes wrong instead of externalizing and blaming the rest of the world. And I would guess that growing up in a religious environment, everything was your fault, right, Bear? I grew. I grew up Roman Catholic, and, yeah, you know, you, you didn't blame what happened down the street. Like, if I. Something went wrong, I took the blame.

[Tony Scowron]

Oh, guilt is a big, big thing.

[Cameron Herold]

Oh, absolutely. Has guilt helped you in some ways and didn't. Yeah, I think in a up way.

[Tony Scowron]

In a up way. It absolutely has. Because you.

[Cameron Herold]

That's so true.

[Tony Scowron]

I actually never thought of that. But you internalize everything of what could I have done to actually change the outcome? Even if a couple prayers, but even if it wasn't 100. My. My fault. But it's. You always look through the lens of what can I do differently next time? Which absolutely translates well to leadership down the road.

[Cameron Herold]

Okay, so, so starting young, getting the work experience young, having some of those core lessons that came out of the, out of the church or the cult and kind of growing from there, and then you get into some of the leadership. What were some of the big leadership lessons that you learned over the years? If you were to impart a couple of those to the people that report to you today, and then I want to go into your last role that you were into.

[Tony Scowron]

So some of the biggest ones is there's a lot of assumptions that people will look at you differently when your title changes. And they do in a way, but not the way you think You, You. A lot of people think that, like, okay, I, I, I'm going up the rung. There's. I'm gonna have these throngs of admirers. I'm exaggerating, but it's just like, people are gonna be like, okay, what? What do you want me to do? But it's more of a. More of a disdain. There's more of a loneliness. Leadership is lonely. Being at the top of an org chart is lonely because there's. You don't have those relationships to the degree you do with your peers. And I, I think that's one of the reasons you created the COO alliance is to give people a community.

[Cameron Herold]

It's interesting. I did and I didn't. I, I did it because. Because I felt coos were lonely in. They didn't have anyone else to talk to about their role. Yeah, but you're the first person to actually show me what I was feeling back in all of those days where, yes, I didn't feel like I had the friends inside the company because I was their boss. Yep. And I did always feel removed from that. I was always very envious of all these cohorts and co workers of people who I hired and trained and got them to like each other and then I felt like they liked each other more than me. But yeah, I guess that makes sense.

[Tony Scowron]

It's. You're, you have to be the bad guy because you're, you're true, you're the.

[Cameron Herold]

Filter, really are their boss.

[Tony Scowron]

You argue up and you argue down. And so I'd say there's argues, the wrong word. But in terms of debate and kind of wrestle. Because the one thing a COO does, good one, is you're always passionately debating to get to truth. You're trying to get to actually what really matters. Because in the, in the swirl of vision and ideas and creativity and this, you have to distill that down to does this align? And even if it does align, is it the right time? And even if it's the right time and it does align, but do we have the resources and the right things to actually ensure that a successful execution? And during those, I learned a lot of doing it the wrong way in two ways. One, I observed, you know, working with the companies, I became very, very observant. That was another probably a skill set or attribute from how I was raised that translated well, today is being incredibly observant and picking up little micro details on things.

[Cameron Herold]

Observant around. Yeah, just around everything around the day to day, around the customer. Probably putting metrics.

[Tony Scowron]

I'm referring more to social awareness. I'm referring to a recognition. Okay, that idea didn't land right.

[Cameron Herold]

Do you have attention deficit disorder?

[Tony Scowron]

I've. I never officially tested, but do you.

[Cameron Herold]

Do you think your, your CEO is more ADD than you are or do you think you're on the mic?

[Tony Scowron]

My CEO is 100 more ADHD and she knows that she's, she, she anchors the extreme of that and it's, it's part of what makes her a genius.

[Cameron Herold]

You know, you are on the spectrum or add. If you haven't read my newest book, the Second in Command, go grab a copy right now on Amazon and you'll learn how to unleash the power of a coo. And if you already are a coo, you'll learn how to really build an incredible partnership with your CEO.

[Tony Scowron]

I've never done a test.

[Cameron Herold]

You are then.

[Tony Scowron]

I, I don't know Okay.

[Cameron Herold]

I mean, when you know, you know, it's like, it's like when you.

[Tony Scowron]

Yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

You know. Yeah, I've known, I've had ADD since I was 7 years old. Yeah, I'm like, I have a history of. And I can tell you 20 different times where I knew I had it over the years. So. Yeah, you probably don't.

[Tony Scowron]

But it.

[Cameron Herold]

One of the skills or strengths that comes out of the ADD is the ability to observe because we can't not notice everything. So it's not actually a disorder. It's the. We're hyper observant of everything around us. But it got so hard to keep it all organized. We need people like you to get it done right, to delegate right. To push it off a plate. I want you to talk a little bit about though, the, the kind of leadership that comes in and the art of saying no or not now or understanding the resources into things. Can you explain when, when employee or a leader comes to you with an idea, how do you say no to them? When it's the wrong time or the wrong project or what do you notice to say no? And how do you approach that?

[Tony Scowron]

The thing I learned probably 12, 10, 12, 15 years ago was specifically start converting everything into a question. Why is this important to you? And that is just a, an anchoring question to dig deep of. Like, oh, I just thought of it. And it's like, okay, it's not important then. Or that goes, go to your head. Why is this important to you? And it. They'll either tie it back to a core business tenant, they'll tie it back to a part of their vision that is actually not being executed to the level that they want it. Or let's say it's an employee surfacing an idea. Why is this important to you? And it's like, oh, I don't know, I was just frustrated about it last week. Okay, that's an answer. So it's not a big deal. Or I've been. This is something I've thought about for a year and I've. And then my next question is, tell me more, tell me more. Let's just break it down. And so there's, I break. It's all questions and at the, finally, at the end of it, if they've really made a good point. Let's talk about employee for just a second. The next question is, if I, I'm not saying I will, but if I made you in charge of this project, what would you need to actually make it happen? And it's simultaneously trying to Teach them how to think, which I think is one of the most undersold skills or underpriced skills that there is is people knowing how to think. Sure is. It's rigorous thinking. How to break things down, how to understand, how to argue the pros and the cons, and how to effectively articulate how to overcome those cons. And if they can do that to me, their stock value skyrockets in my eye.

[Cameron Herold]

I also love your approach with them. I wrote down a note and I'm going to ask you tomorrow if you wouldn't mind presenting to the entire CO alliance membership that's here just a short five minutes around. Why does this matter to you? Yeah. And. And that follow on question. I think there's some really good insight that you could bring to the.

[Tony Scowron]

Sure.

[Cameron Herold]

I'd be really insightful. And it's a really beautiful way to. To kind of understand. Now, do you use that same approach for the CEO? Yes. Okay.

[Tony Scowron]

Yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

So it works both ways.

[Tony Scowron]

It works both ways. And why is this important to you? Is.

[Cameron Herold]

I love it. Because it's.

[Tony Scowron]

Yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

It's like, oh, I just thought of it. It's like. And you're letting them throw that on the table versus. Yeah, I think about it a while. I think it's important because of this. I thought it will get roi like you can get a lot more out of them too.

[Tony Scowron]

You could get a lot more out of them. And oftentimes the idea is actually the first stated idea is really not the idea.

[Cameron Herold]

Right. It's a potential solution for something that they want to do, but there might be other ways to.

[Tony Scowron]

And what I really am waiting for is for them to backtrack away from the solution and articulate the problem or their frustration that they actually have.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah. The kind of first principles thinking. Right. What is it that they're really. That's interesting. Yeah, I like that a lot. All right. So your skill development or skill kind of area, one of your focus is. Is around leadership training.

[Tony Scowron]

Yeah. And I. That was personal to me because I realized this is probably 2015, 2016 range. Ten years ago, I was like, I need to get way better at this. I'm starting to be at this point. I was a director, senior director. I'm having conversations with people that report to me and I don't know how to handle these conversations. I'm kind of out in front of my skids a little bit. I feel a little bit like I don't know what I'm doing in these type of conversations. And I dove just head first into leadership and emotional intelligence and self awareness and learning. Self regulation and learning questions and learning how to. Susan Scott wrote an amazing book called Fierce Conversations which is the art of asking 30 questions before you respond a statement. You know, you, you say something. It's like why is that a big deal? Okay, what, what solution do you have? Why do you like this solution? Do you have any other solutions that you just vetoed? Do you have any. Really worked and I learned so much through that that by the time we got to 2019, I think I had in the company that I was working for, we didn't really have an HR department and we were skyrocketing. We were growing by 30, 40% in some cases 100 every year. And massive, massive growth. Massive geographic. Geographic growth. A geographical. Yeah, yeah, whatever it is. From one state to seven states to just, you know, massive expansion. And I realized I got to do something without like a department. And so I, I actually spooled up a multi day leadership camp for all of my managers. Maybe we, we. I flew him down to Orlando, Florida and we met for multiple days. And I was the. The best way to learn something is you have to figure out how to teach it. And it's just a skill set that I was like, I. In order for. If I'm going to be expected to teach this, I have to become an expert in it. And I was teaching myself and applying it to myself at the same time making mistakes along the way. But during that journey of developing that and seeing it work and seeing everyone start to rise, it validated my efforts enormously because I didn't, I didn't learn. I learned through necessity but also a self awareness of recognition of I am not an expert. You know Jim Collins when he was like in order for a company to go from good to great, they first have to recognize that they're good. And so in order for me to go from mediocre to good, I first had to recognize that I was mediocre and have a self awareness to personally invest to grow.

[Cameron Herold]

When I was working on my first book, Double Double, the working title was from zero to Good. Huh. Because then you go to good to great. Right? And I wanted companies to recognize you're.

[Tony Scowron]

Like, no, I'm writing the pre. I'm writing the prequel for the prepl.

[Cameron Herold]

Amber Colin. Because the reality is most companies are not even that good.

[Tony Scowron]

Yeah, that's true.

[Cameron Herold]

Right. You're not out of rude. You should. I want to ask you a little bit about the leadership training and something you said around, around It. But I'm curious for a second. Have you done your Colby profile?

[Tony Scowron]

I have.

[Cameron Herold]

Do you remember what your four numbers are from your Colby?

[Tony Scowron]

Oh, gosh. 8 8, 3, 8 1, maybe.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah, that would make sense. So you're a high fact finder, which means you'd like to ask a lot of questions. I ask a lot of questions to start a project. But you're also a bit of a quick start. So you're an entrepreneurial COO very much. You can start things, but. But before you do, you have a preference to ask a lot or you'll ask a lot of questions while you're running. Like, you can. You can do a walk and talk and learn as much as you need.

[Tony Scowron]

To, a hundred percent. And then just.

[Cameron Herold]

And that makes sense to me why you're able to ask those 30 questions before you'll make a statement. But if you're a low fact finder, that's very hard to do.

[Tony Scowron]

Right.

[Cameron Herold]

So how do you teach Susan, your CEO.

[Tony Scowron]

No, Danielle.

[Cameron Herold]

Danielle. How do you teach Danielle, your CEO, to slow down and ask a lot of questions? Or do you try to. Do you just let her do her thing?

[Tony Scowron]

We have an incredible relationship, and to the degree that pains me, even speaking with other CEOs and other businesses that don't have that level of just extremely transparent relationship. We have a phenomenal relationship. And, you know, she. She speaks quick, she comes up with new ideas quick. But she is honestly, actually extraordinarily self aware and recognizing that, hey, I'm just gonna. I'm gonna come in this way and in. She invites that fever. Please tell me if, you know, stop me, pause me, interrupt me, shape me, push me, point me in the right direction if I start going off. And so it's you with her. Yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

Does she interact with the rest of the team or does she let you do that? Does she remove herself?

[Tony Scowron]

She.

[Cameron Herold]

Both.

[Tony Scowron]

Both. She's her will. What we love to do is I, I can be the bad guy. I want her to. To celebrate the team. And so a lot of her communication with the team is very celebratory in nature. In a good way.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah. And I think one of the core roles of the CEO is to make the CEO iconic.

[Tony Scowron]

Right.

[Cameron Herold]

Is to make them look good, is to shine the spotlight on them.

[Tony Scowron]

Yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

How does she shine the spotlight on you internally to make sure people know, oh, yeah, Tony just needs to be the bad cop. Tony needs to roll. Tony needs to say no. What does she do internally to shine the spotlight on you?

[Tony Scowron]

She does a great job of that. And in recognizing what I'm doing, describing what I'm doing, even if it's not visible to the entire team. I came on at a very interesting time. The company was growing. They had lost a few beloved members of the team. Great people that were fantastic individuals, great rapport with the team, but maybe not the perfect fit for, to help scale the company and so just kind of merge into that type of environment is not a super easy, just seamless, instant fit. So it took a lot of open, transparent, developmental type conversations to help elevate the team.

[Cameron Herold]

Well, same time, what Was your first 90 days like? Like, how did you onboard yourself in the organization? How many people were there when you got there?

[Tony Scowron]

We've, I think, let's see, 15. We're up to 17 now.

[Cameron Herold]

Okay. So small team, but an established team. People had been there, there'd been some transition. And you came in as us, as the coo.

[Tony Scowron]

Yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

How did you come in over top of everybody and help them feel safe? How did you come in in your first 90 days and show up and behave and act? When did you start making big decisions? Can you kind of walk?

[Tony Scowron]

Yeah, that's a great question. In any new position I've learned, the first thing you do is you just ask questions that you learn. So my first 30 days was this enormous just ingestion of learning. And during that process you learn real issues. You also learn, you know, here's the new guy in charge, let me just tell him everything that's going on. And you have to filter through some of that of what maybe is a legitimate thing to focus on. And so it's just spending an immense amount of time talking individuals, people. I talk to key customers, I talk to employees. I spend a ton of time with the CEO and just learning. And so then my next second 30 days was starting to help shape a little prioritization of okay, we're, we're off here. We have core values, but we don't really.

[Cameron Herold]

If you want more leadership tips and systems from me, they're free at YouTube, forward slash amronherald and that's H E R O L D follow them.

[Tony Scowron]

We should re look at this. Let's, let's, let's get alignment on the vision because one vision says we're going this way, another vision says we're going this way. Some people's interpretation is going this way. And so that, that became a significant priorities that we started working on.

[Cameron Herold]

That's a lot like how I describe it in my book, the second in Command too, that in that second 90 days, you start putting the plan together, testing the hypotheses a little bit. But yeah, but you don't really make a lot of those decisions earlier than the first 90 or 30 days, which makes sense.

[Tony Scowron]

No.

[Cameron Herold]

So you, you mentioned earlier that the leadership training is really key and I know that you're bringing the beyond collection is bringing leadership training into some of these hotels. So.

[Tony Scowron]

Yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

Can you talk to us about that big initiative and why you're doing that?

[Tony Scowron]

Yeah, absolutely. So Danielle, what's incredible about this is how aligned the CEO and myself are on this. So when she first hired me, she, she asked what makes you tick and you know, what do you want to be? What are your dreams? And at the time, coming from my history of what I've done over the last 10 years is I was like, I love and I feel empowered and validated developing leaders. Like I want to protect people from going through what I went through and I want to invest into others and I just, I really enjoy doing that. She didn't forget that. And what's interesting is she'd gone through this, her own self aware journey of recognizing how she showed up that was combative or didn't land right. Although her intentions absolutely were always pure. It was sometimes the social awareness wasn't recognizing how things would land different with different types of people and learned that massive progress. She hires a COO who's passionate about it. She's like, you know what? This, this is destiny of the making. Simultaneously recognizing that these big box brand, Ritz Carlton, Marriott, they've got multi million dollar internal organizations that are leading leadership initiatives within their own company.

[Cameron Herold]

Right.

[Tony Scowron]

And these independent properties don't.

[Cameron Herold]

Oh, okay.

[Tony Scowron]

And so they, there is. When people go into hospitality, they grow up in that business. And oftentimes, and this is true in any business, people get promoted because most of the time you're just best at doing what you do well.

[Cameron Herold]

This is why. So I launched an online training three years ago called Invest in your leaders. Yes. And the entire Invest in your Leaders program is 12 core modules that basically every big company has these 12 modules. Starbucks and General Electric and Microsoft, they're training their teams on what I cover. But if you're in a zone of like 10 employees to 500 employees, you don't have any of these training programs in place. So it's the same kind of idea.

[Tony Scowron]

It's the same kind of idea.

[Cameron Herold]

How are you going to monetize it? What are you going to charge these small groups? What's your business model to sell this in and how do you. Third second part is how do you make it not a distraction from your core business?

[Tony Scowron]

Great question. We. We've recognized we have people joined up now that range from people in sales all the way up to VPs that are joined and passionate about learning where they have in their career path have been promoted being the most tenured or most knowledgeable person but maybe not the most skilled on leadership. And so they're very excited about it. They, their, their leaders are investing into helping them grow. What do you. We've monetized. There's a couple different layers and so we're actually still kind of figuring that out. One of the ways we, we've done it we. We just started in Q4 last year is every month we meet and then we did at the end of last year we at in Dominican Republic and one of our gorgeous properties we had as many as could make it that were part of the leadership forum come a day early and we did an in person forum, an amazing dinner. The next morning we got up, walked. We ended up going down into this underground cenote and had this natural waterfall and doing ice cold plunges. And there was multiple people that were like there's no way I'm doing that. But when you, you walk through that and you could see them in the cold plunge and you saw the emotion, you saw the bravery and then realizing you know what I'm able to accomplish and do something I never thought I was able to do. And that translates. So that translates directly into life leadership, management, working with people.

[Cameron Herold]

So it sounds like it's more of a value add that you're bringing your.

[Tony Scowron]

It's a massive value add. Here's the revenue stream right now. It's absolutely a value add. Eventually it it. There's a monetization path there. But it is something that Danielle and I both are extremely passionate about. Giving back and investing in these people and seeing an elevated rise.

[Cameron Herold]

Why I called it invest in your leaders.

[Tony Scowron]

Yes. Okay.

[Cameron Herold]

And by the way mine is paid. You have to pay to put your people through the. But it's irresponsible not to for the amount that I'm charging, it's only $650 per liter.

[Tony Scowron]

I pay. I signed up, I signed up for it. I'm walking through it. So.

[Cameron Herold]

And I think when you put people through that content by the way, like if you're a company not willing to spend $650 to grow somebody, you should fire that somebody and hire someone you are willing to invest in for real. Right. Because as the company continues to scale the skills, the people have to continue to scale. So I like. I like that you guys see that and you're doing that.

[Tony Scowron]

Yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

I wanted to talk to you a little bit about your last role. You said you were in a CEO role, VP role before. Why did you leave that. That organization? And what were your kind of key lessons from being there? That's great.

[Tony Scowron]

There is key lessons. Was absolutely learning how a role changes with the size of a company. And a company will outgrow an employee or employee will outgrow a company. And sometimes I had. I had employees that were incredible when the company was this size and the company did this, and all of a sudden they're failing.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah.

[Tony Scowron]

And it's like, did they change? No, they didn't. It's just the demands on the job are they just. They outpace them. Another giant lesson I learned is really just understanding. I was explaining at lunch with a few of the alliance members today of the difference, and it took me a while to learn this of kind of when you started a company, you're at base level. You only need to know what to do and how to do it.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah.

[Tony Scowron]

And managers is where. When comes in. They really work on prioritization. So what to do, how to do it. They prioritize when and then above a manager at a director level and up. You should not be talking about what to do, how to do it, or when to do it. You should be teaching people how to think. And so that entire mindset philosophy shifts. And I've worked with directors and even VPs who are like, this is happening, and we need to prioritize this and move this in front of me. And my first statement to them is, tell me, tell me about your team. Because the way you're describing to me, it sounds like what I'm hearing from you is that there's a gap below you, because what you're doing is I need you to be working here.

[Cameron Herold]

So you're growing the company then.

[Tony Scowron]

And no, I wouldn't say that. I think there was a. It was a. It was a perfect opportunity for an. For an exit based on a variety of different circumstances happening in the company that, you know, alignment of values and a lot of different things were going in a different direction. And I learned a lot, have nothing but incredible memories of many of the people I worked with. And, you know, I still get multiple messages and calls a week from former people that I used to coach and mentor and work with, you know, who have questions or want to read out about something.

[Cameron Herold]

So it's interesting your insights and into the layer of, of learning and the layer of the way that we show up as leaders at different layers in the organization. And I think it's where sometimes title inflation has gotten in the way. So I want to ask a little bit about that.

[Tony Scowron]

Yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

If you were to describe what a COO is versus a VP versus a director versus a manager, how would you kind of describe those tight different title ranges in your.

[Tony Scowron]

So in a super simplified world, not, not thinking this the size of company, a COO is the operational arm of a visionary. And so they, they translate ideas into. Okay, this is actually how we get, get stuff done into like an operational plan. VPs are an extension of that. And so what I. The simplest way of saying it as I say C suite is strategy. You know, if you're a cfo, you're really in financial strategy. You know, if you're a clo, it's operational strategy. People strategy is a really big part of what they do. CEO is idea strategy. VPS is this translation to lower levels. I need to break this apart and segment it into digestible formats. Directors, you're teaching people how to think. So recognizing, okay, I've got this idea and plan and bite size initiatives kind of being fed down to me at a director level. I now have deficiencies under me. I need to teach them how to think. I need to make a more immune to risk. I mean I need to make them more acceptable to risk because we're about to change as an organization.

[Cameron Herold]

That makes sense.

[Tony Scowron]

So I need to teach my people how to think. And that's so much of that responsibility leans on directors and managers. Your primary function is prioritization of stuff done.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah.

[Tony Scowron]

And specifically the when and then your shift leaders and your, your team does what and how.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah. All right, I like that. So I want you to go back to your, your younger you go back to your. Not 15, but maybe the 21 year old Tony and give yourself some advice. What advice would you give the younger you that you know to be true today?

[Tony Scowron]

Slow down.

[Cameron Herold]

Well, there is. I laugh by the way, because years ago I was running a 24 hour relay and I had this headset on listening to music and I was. It was about 4 o'clock in the morning. I was running about my 18th mile over the 24 hour period and the song that came on was Slow down, you're going too fast. And I just about lost my mind. So anytime anyone says slow down I have like PTSD. No, I agree though. Yeah.

[Tony Scowron]

The advice to my 21 year old self is slow down and invest in you. Because you have the energy and the enthusiasm and even potentially the charisma to really influence the world. And you, you better, you better wear that responsibility in the right way because you don't want to influence it in the wrong way. And so it's just invest in yourself, understand yourself, and slow down.

[Cameron Herold]

I love it. Tony Scar on the COO for the Beyond Collection. Thanks very much for sharing this one second.

[Tony Scowron]

Thank you.

[Cameron Herold]

Appreciate it. Peace out. Thanks everybody.

[Tony Scowron]

You've been listening to Second in Command, brought to you by COO Alliance Founder Cameron Herold. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to like, share and subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and our other podcast streaming platforms. For more best practices from industry leading COOs, visit COOAlliance.com SA.