Ep. 471 - The Growth Engine: Fueling Teams and Talent

Summary

Podcast Summary: Ep. 471 - The Growth Engine: Fueling Teams and Talent

Title: Second in Command: The Chief Behind the Chief with Cameron Herold
Host: Cameron Herold
Episode: Ep. 471 - The Growth Engine: Fueling Teams and Talent
Release Date: May 1, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 471 of the Second in Command podcast, host Cameron Herold delves into one of the most pressing challenges for business leaders: optimizing teams for success while avoiding common pitfalls that can hinder progress. This episode, titled "The Growth Engine: Fueling Teams and Talent," brings together insights from top-level COOs and industry experts to explore strategies for building a robust, results-driven organization.

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Optimizing Teams through Systems and Hiring

Cameron Herold emphasizes the critical role of establishing robust systems and processes within leadership and management teams. He advocates for creating interdependent teams—employees who rely on established systems yet possess the independence to handle emergencies effectively.

Cameron Herold (00:00):
“The key is to make sure that the leadership team and management team are really good with putting systems and processes in place that people will follow and then hiring people that are kind of interdependent.”

Using the analogy of the pilot who successfully landed an American Airlines plane on the Hudson River, Herold illustrates the balance between adherence to protocols and the ability to make independent decisions during crises.

Key Takeaways:

• Implement simple, effective systems and checklists.
• Seek automation and optimization before questioning the necessity of existing processes.
• Hire individuals who can thrive within systems but also demonstrate independent problem-solving skills.

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Cultivating a Continuous Improvement Culture

The conversation shifts to the importance of fostering a culture of continuous improvement. Herold underscores the necessity of leaders who actively seek to create and enhance systems, promoting efficiency and innovation.

Cameron Herold (04:07):
“You really need people who will create systems, put systems in place, put simple systems in place, look for automation, look for optimization.”

Guest Lacy raises concerns about the implementation of continuous improvement committees, highlighting common challenges such as outdated processes and lack of communication.

Lacy (04:35):
“Our biggest problem is processes not created processes not being updated and communicated across the board.”

Herold responds by advocating for a no-blame environment, where identifying inefficiencies is celebrated as an opportunity for growth rather than a cause for reprimand.

Cameron Herold (07:21):
“You want to create a celebration when people notice inefficient systems and it's a chance for us to actually fix those things.”

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Effective Hiring Strategies

A significant portion of the episode focuses on innovative hiring strategies that move beyond traditional resumes and interviews. Herold shares his approach to identifying top talent through practical assignments and real-world projects.

Cameron Herold (24:22):
“Don't read resumes, don't let your HR team read resumes... I make her read a five-page vivid vision and some press and then tell me why she wants to work for me.”

This method involves candidates completing a "test project" that reflects actual job responsibilities, allowing Herold to assess their skills, prioritization, and alignment with the company's vision.

Cameron Herold (27:19):
“She came back to me with this slide deck of all of her output. So here's all the work, her time logging, how much she spent on each one... She fucking nailed the whole thing.”

Key Insights:

• Reverse the sales process by having candidates demonstrate their value.
• Utilize real-world assignments to evaluate practical skills and cultural fit.
• Prioritize candidates who can deliver substantial output efficiently.

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Addressing Marketing Management Challenges

The episode also tackles the complexities of managing marketing teams, particularly the challenges associated with fractional CMOs. Herold provides actionable advice on sourcing competent marketing leaders and optimizing marketing budgets.

Cameron Herold (14:55):
“I'm going to drop in the job posting for our marketing manager... There's a couple of companies out there where you can actually hire full-time marketing experts at about a third of what you would have to pay in North America.”

He highlights the benefits of hiring full-stack marketing managers from regions with lower compensation expectations while maintaining high-quality standards.

Guest Nick discusses the struggle of finding reliable marketing partners, emphasizing the importance of working with vetted and dependable agencies.

Nick (13:21):
“We're at like 150 a month right now, so we're at the bottom level of that, but definitely there.”

Strategies Suggested:

• Explore international talent pools for cost-effective marketing expertise.
• Consider fractional experts who specialize in specific marketing domains.
• Invest in a competent marketing manager to oversee and integrate various fractional experts.

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Leadership Development Programs

Herold introduces his "Invest In Your Leaders" online training program, designed to enhance the leadership skills of managers within organizations. This initiative aims to provide comprehensive professional development akin to what CEOs traditionally receive.

Cameron Herold (15:00):
“If you haven't already signed up for my online training where I cover the 12 essential leadership skills for anyone who manages people, go check out investinyourleaders.com.”

The program covers 12 core leadership skills essential for effective team management and organizational growth, available at a fraction of the cost of one-on-one coaching.

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Managing Staff Reduction and Communication

A poignant discussion arises around the sensitive topic of staff reduction. Herold advises on maintaining transparency and compassion during layoffs, stressing the importance of clear communication and future vision to reassure remaining employees.

Cameron Herold (22:12):
“Just cut everything that's dead. Then remember that... the dust is settled before you think it's settled.”

He recommends providing a "vivid vision" of the company's future to help employees understand the direction and feel secure in their roles.

Cameron Herold (24:18):
“Show them where you're going, everything's good.”

Best Practices:

• Communicate layoffs transparently and empathetically.
• Establish a clear and positive vision for the company's future.
• Ensure remaining staff understand their roles and the company's direction to maintain morale and productivity.

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Conclusion

Episode 471 of Second in Command offers valuable insights into building and maintaining high-performing teams through effective systems, innovative hiring practices, and continuous improvement cultures. Cameron Herold's expertise, combined with the contributions from various guests, provides listeners with practical strategies to fuel their organization's growth engine.

For those seeking to enhance their leadership skills and optimize their team dynamics, this episode serves as an essential guide.

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Notable Quotes:

• Cameron Herold (00:00):
  “The key is to make sure that the leadership team and management team are really good with putting systems and processes in place that people will follow and then hiring people that are kind of interdependent.”

• Cameron Herold (04:07):
  “You really need people who will create systems, put systems in place, put simple systems in place, look for automation, look for optimization.”

• Cameron Herold (14:55):
  “I'm going to drop in the job posting for our marketing manager... There's a couple of companies out there where you can actually hire full-time marketing experts at about a third of what you would have to pay in North America.”

• Cameron Herold (24:22):
  “Don't read resumes, don't let your HR team read resumes... I make her read a five-page vivid vision and some press and then tell me why she wants to work for me.”

• Cameron Herold (22:12):
  “Just cut everything that's dead. Then remember that... the dust is settled before you think it's settled.”

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For more insights and strategies from industry-leading COOs, visit COOAlliance.com.

Transcript

[Cameron Herald]

Hey, it's Cameron Herald, the host of the Second in Command podcast. Before we dive in, there's something you need to know. If you're a coo, VP Operations, or you're in any role where you're the second in command to the CEO, the COO alliance is the place for you. If you're the integrator to the visionary, you're going to want to join us. The COO alliance is the world's leading community for the second in command. We've had over 500 members like you join from 17 countries to grow their skills, connections and confidence. You'll get the tools, friendships, and a 10x guarantee to ensure that you get your money's worth. Go to cooalliance.com to learn more and see if you qualify. You can even book a free call with our team to ask questions. Now, let's jump into this week's episode. The key is to make sure that the leadership team and management team are really good with putting systems and processes in place that people will follow and then hiring people that that are kind of interdependent. So interdependent means that they're dependent on the systems that we put in. They'll use the systems and the checklists that are in place. Like the pilot on that American Airlines plane that landed the plane on the Hudson's river, or US Airways, he was a very interdependent pilot. He would follow all the checklists all the time, but when there's a fucking emergency, he's independent enough to figure it out. That's kind of what you need in continuous improvement, is you really need people who will create systems, put systems in place, put simple systems in place, look for automation, look for optimization. Before we even want to optimize a process or make sure that a process is better, do we even need to keep doing the work?

[Podcast Announcer]

Welcome to the Second in Command podcast, produced by the COO alliance and brought to you by its founder, Cameron Herold. In the second in command podcast, we talk to top COOs who share the insights, strategies and tactics that made him the chief behind the Chief. And now, here's your host, Cameron Herald.

[Cameron Herald]

Today's episode, we're tackling one of the biggest challenges for any business leader. How to optimize your team for success while avoiding the common pitfalls that can derail your progress. We'll explore why identifying key roles, leveraging technology, and ensuring every team member brings measurable value are essential for long term success. You'll also get an inside look at a hiring strategy that goes beyond traditional resumes and interviews, one that puts candidates to the test with real world assignments, allowing top talent to shine. Plus, I'll share a powerful analogy about why moving on quickly, whether in business or life, can be the key to long term success. If you're ready to cut through the noise and build a strong, results driven organization, this episode is for you. I had a client years ago, very successful. I was coaching them. You know, they're paying me 78,000 a year to coach them one on one for the year and, you know, getting really good calls. And one of the things on the call, they said that they were going to hire four. They needed four project managers to oversee, like these 60 account managers. And I'm like, so tell me, what do these account managers do? They're like, well, we make sure that the account managers are going to deliver on time, blah, blah, blah. So basically these project managers are babysitters to make sure the 80 people are doing their job properly. Like, yeah, kind of. But we don't want to call them that. I'm like, no, that's what you're doing. Instead of teaching the 80 people to be really good at what they do and to deliver and deliver on their promises and know how to do it and have templates, you're going to hire babysitters to help them do what they do. Just train them to be really good at their role and you don't need those people. Instead of spending $80,000 times four people, which is $320,000 a year for five years, that's 1.5 million, why don't you spend 100 grand training them all and systemizing them all so you never need those four people in the first place. And then one by one, get rid of your bottom performers who can't follow these systems, can't make these decisions. Yeah, don't hire a release valve. For sure.

[Podcast Announcer]

Okay, got it.

[Cameron Herald]

Thank you. Other questions? There's no dumb questions. As a friend of mine, Joe Polish, says, there's just dumb people with questions. Lacy. Sorry.

[Lacy]

I've been dancing around the idea of implementing some type of like continuous improvement committee, hiring somebody. Does anybody have experience with like a continuous improvement program or a department? And what's it look like? What are their main functions? I mean, our biggest problem is processes not created processes not being updated and communicated across the board.

[Cameron Herald]

So I'll let people talk in a second, but before they do again, the key is to make sure that the leadership team and management team are really good with putting systems and processes in place, that people will follow. And then hiring people that are kind of interdependent. So interdependent means that they're dependent on the systems that we put in place. They'll use the systems and the checklists that are in place. Like the pilot on that American Airlines plane that landed the plane on the Hudson's river, or US Airways, he was a very interdependent pilot. He would follow all the checklists all the time. But when there's a fucking emergency, he's independent enough to figure it out. That's kind of what you need in continuous improvement, is you really need people who will create systems, put systems in place, put simple systems in place. You know, look for automation, look for optimization. You know, before we even want to optimize a process or make sure that a process is better, do we even need to keep doing the work? So you need people that are leaders that are really good at saying, let's kill it, let's stop it, let's optimize it, let's automate it. That would be my starting point. But does anybody have any success or has anybody got experience putting continuous improvement programs in place? Lacy, what's the problem? Can you give us an example of one of the problems you're trying to solve? Josh, did you have a comment on it or a question later?

[Josh]

At least way I see it, I'm not going to talk for her. But, like, I mean, when we hire a great manager or a great director, we see a lot of great changes and great systems that are put into place probably for the first 18 months. And then after that, you definitely see systemic just, you know, complacency to a point. I don't know. I think, you know, I think for me, it's like, how do we make sure that they're consistently challenging the business to run at a. At a better level than it could be. And the only way to do that would be, you know, cutting the heads off of the heads all the time. And I don't want to live in that. No, I mean, I'm just being realistic. Like, no, it's. You can that.

[Cameron Herald]

Or.

[Josh]

Or like, in her and her idea is like, some sort of a person out there that is consistently looking at processes or a team devoted to making everybody either more efficient, better, whatever, turning things on their heads at least. I don't know. Lacy, am I looking at it wrong?

[Lacy]

Yeah.

[Cameron Herald]

Basically, it's not about slashing heads or cutting heads. It's more about actually growing the skill sets of the people so they start to see, oh, optimizing something, making it leaner, making it faster, making it better. That's a good thing, right? Creating a system where it's in daily huddle. Like, in our daily huddle, we talked about missing systems and frustrations. So we didn't make a missing system or frustration a bad thing. It was no one's fault. We created a no blame environment. So no one ever got in trouble when something was broken. No one would ever get in trouble. If we found an inefficient system, we would praise the fact that somebody saw an inefficient system because, like, fuck, yeah, we get a chance to fix that. We even called our customers that were pissed off. You know, we called them pissed off assholes. But the nickname internally at Collegepro Painters was our pride opportunity area. You know, anytime we had a customer that was upset, it gave us a chance to live our core values and put a system in place to live our core values. So maybe you create a culture at NBB that is about finding inefficient systems and celebrating that we found that system so that we can make it better.

[Lacy]

I think a big problem that we have is like. And this probably is a prioritization problem. I just don't even know how to flip it on its head. But, like, managers are always saying they don't have enough time to look at processes or implement new processes or make things better. It's like, all about time. And I don't know, is it just like an expectation issue from my end saying, like, then find something else to give up. So you do have time.

[Cameron Herald]

Yeah. Looking for efficiencies isn't a time thing. This is a skilled skill gap, Nick, where you guys have a cultural skill gap with some people that just can't wrap their head around culturally. This is the way that we're going to do things. And slowly those people have to come around. It's like a new vivid vision, a new culture. It's the NBB way. It's like mantras like, it doesn't take time to look for efficiencies.

[Podcast Announcer]

No.

[Lacy]

It takes time to fix them, which is.

[Cameron Herald]

Yeah, but slowing down to go fast. Right? It's like a pit stop.

[Podcast Announcer]

Fuck.

[Cameron Herald]

You guys are in Indianapolis, aren't you? Where the hell are you? Aren't you guys in Indianapolis?

[Lacy]

Yeah.

[Cameron Herald]

Take all your management team to the Indianapolis Speedway and show them a pit stop. Go. On a day when nobody's there. Go. What happens here? I don't know. The car stop in the middle of the race. Why do they do that? I don't know, get more gas and change their tires. Why wouldn't they keep driving? Because it, it's better to slow down, tweak something to go fast. Yeah, you've got to build that mentality and then also build that no blame environment that nobody gets in trouble when there's an inefficient process. You know, at Toyota they have the Kanban or Kanban, like if somebody pulls the red thing on the, on the factory line, the entire Toyota factory line stops. One person can pull it and stop the entire factory line because they notice something's wrong. That's a celebrated action. So you guys want to create a celebration when people notice inefficient systems and it's a chance for us to actually fix those things. And anybody who can't wrap their head around that culturally, yes, those people should leave because that is the way that we're going to build stuff. Right. Like you want to celebrate people coming in in the morning going holy shit, you should see what we use ChatGPT for yesterday. Yeah, right. That's the celebrations. You want to have that culturally. Josh, I was struggling a little bit.

[Nick]

Whenever I hear about like the, the college painters and how really having that marketing structure so far in advance. And I've been extremely, extremely happy with like COO A and Kim, my coo, but I'm struggling to find like a CMO version of what you guys do. And so I guess my question is two part is do you know of anything like that to help prop up the team? I have and what should I be looking for? Because I feel like especially on the marketing side, they all call themselves like fractional CMOs rather than coaches. Like it's all like they want to kind of jump into the business from that perspective. We do great with marketing, but it's so short term. You know, we're doing stuff now for January. It's definitely not that like 12 month approach and so looking to help augment some of that with more than just the digital stuff we're doing.

[Cameron Herald]

Yeah, I can answer this in a couple parts. One, I'm going to drop in the job posting for our marketing manager. So I just hired a full stack marketing manager that in the US and Canada would probably be a junior vice president of marketing or a senior director of marketing level. Probably $150,000 a year comp for this role I got them out of. They're based out of Argentina, they live in Germany. They're $50,000 a year full time. I dropped their job description in there. There's a couple of companies out there where you can actually hire full time marketing experts at about a third of what you would have to pay in North America. There's another group that I just bumped into recently that hires fractional experts who want to be fractional experts. That's all they want to be is fractional experts. And if you can get like a full stack marketing manager who's managing seven fractional experts, like an SEO person five hours a month and a creative eight hours a month, like that can be a pretty deadly mix to kind of plug in. The first part of your question is, do I know of a COO alliance for marketing? Not directly, but there's a couple of groups out there that are more mastermind communities that are very marketing focused. They tend to have a lot of entrepreneurs at them, but they absolutely welcome the heads of marketing in them. So one of them is, and if you send me an email, I can introduce you. But Roland Fraser and Ryan Dice run an amazing group and then Perry Belcher runs another one. Those are the founders of Traffic and Conversion. They used to run a group called War Room and then Perry split up from Warren and Ryan and they now run two different mastermind communities. But those are very, very strong communities that tend to be very marketing. Very, very, very marketing focused. Again, they came out of the traffic and conversion world. That's where I would put them. But I don't know of any. Does anybody know of any like CEO alliances for marketing people? I know of one for technology people, one called seven CEOs. That's really good.

[Colleen]

Yeah, there was one that I hired and, and they were on for like three months and was, I think I've hired two fractional CMO type companies and they were a total bust.

[Cameron Herald]

Yeah, just really.

[Colleen]

And to generate, I would say ROI on a marketing person, I feel like it's very easy and measurable. Same thing with like an outsourced cfo. But yeah, they just did not add value and actually complicated things in some ways.

[Cameron Herald]

Both of them that we hired, who were they?

[Colleen]

Almost biz. Biz something in my, in South Florida is my EO group. Yeah, biz something. And I can't remember who the other one was.

[Cameron Herald]

There is a really good fractional CMO group, but this is not the COO alliance for CMOs. The CO alliance isn't fractional COOs. It's a mastermind community of COs. So I don't know of a mastermind community for CMOs. I do know of a fractional CMO group that is very strong that I've sent clients to for a decade called Chief Outsiders. But to work with the Chief Outsiders, I would say that you need a marketing budget of $1 million a year. If you don't have at least $1 million a year, don't fucking talk to them. But if you do have $1 million a year budget and you have a director of marketing spending it, I think it makes a lot of sense to pay them 70 or $80,000 a year to oversee your marketing and spend 920,000 instead of a million. And I think you'll get.

[Nick]

Yeah, we're at like 150amonth right now, so we're at the bottom level of that, but definitely there.

[Cameron Herald]

If you drop me a note, I'll introduce you. Karen Hayward is one of their senior people. She's a former Chief Marketing Officer for Xerox. She's Canadian. She's amazing. I've known her for 10 years. If you haven't already signed up for my online training where I cover the 12 essential leadership skills for anyone who manages people, go check out investinyourleaders.com ch and you can use promo code Cameron10 for 10% off before the end of the month. Close to 5,000 leaders are already going through my content. Hey, it's Cameron. I hope you're loving today's episode. Quick question for you. Does your company have a strong leadership training program in place to grow the skills of everyone who manages people? If you want to help yourself and your company grow, get everyone who manages people learning from my Invest in youn Leaders online training program. There are 12 core leadership skills that I cover online and for only 650 per person, they're all going to really grow. CEOs pay me $78,000 a year to coach them one on one. And now you can all benefit for 1% of what they pay me. These are the same leadership skills that I created and certified everyone in at 1-800-got junk when I was there as COO. Go to investinyourleaders.com today and use promo code podcast10 before the end of the month to get 10% off each manager you sign up. Now back to the show. Art Saxby was their CEO. I know the brand really well. They're very, very good. But again, they need to be big enough. I have another guy, B, who runs kind of like an introduction service for marketing experts and he is really talented and he's basically vetted all of these freelancers and kind of agency people that we need to know. So it's like, I need a podcast. Whatever. He's like, I got him. I got three. I vetted 30. I picked three. And he, he really makes sure that if any of his, like three in every category, if they ever up, they're out of the stable. So he really, really takes good care. But he's got it for anything for like, paid for social, for mobile, for Facebook, Google, whatever. He can do some really good introductions. I can do that intro. But yeah, I would, I would say, I would send her to Perry Belcher's or, or Roland and Ryan's groups.

[Nick]

Thank you.

[Cameron Herald]

Colleen, do you have any questions? Because I want to make sure that you've got a chance if you wanted to ask one. Chris, you want to ask one? Martin, if you want to.

[Josh]

I was going to say to Josh for us, recently we hired a. A consultant. Actually, Cameron knows him, Roy More John. But he's just. We brought him in to really just consult on our budget, make sure that our 2025 plan is going well, and just to try and help up our marketing director's skill set in the process and give her a little bit more, just more knowledge in general about what the decisions that she's been making and making sure that the direction's right. But like he said, I mean, it's.

[Cameron Herald]

It.

[Josh]

Our budget's well over a million and his, you know, he's, he's there to make sure that we're spending our money right. Otherwise, you know, I mean, that's, that's his main objective is just making sure we're getting the ROI on what we're doing.

[Cameron Herald]

Yeah.

[Lacy]

Nick, I was going to ask you to explain, like, how you made that connection because we didn't really, like, seek out a consulting firm. That was a networking thing.

[Josh]

Yeah, I mean, for me, I mean, our. I mean, I'm not sure about yourself, Josh, but for my company, we started off as we were just. I mean, I was doing the SEO myself in the beginning. I had no idea what I was doing. But, you know, and a little bit of that has kind of flowed all the way through where we are now. Even as many people as we have nearly at 200. And here we are still doing some of the same processes we were doing back then. And I've developed a huge collection of people, you know, relationships that I've built over the years. And sometimes I value relationships more than I value results. And, you know, Roy, I brought him in because I knew that he'd be able to cut through the weeds a little bit more than I can. And he Just has a completely different mindset and looking at things and just also, you know, you know, over the next, you know, four years, you know, how are we going to be, you know, integrating with AI, search and everything else. There's just so many different aspects that a team needs. You know, we, we already outsource our marketing. Our main marketing manager is out of Pakistan. She's, you know, in the 40s a year. Probably not the same skill set Cameron has, but our director is here in Indianapolis and she has a team. For me, it was just identifying the need. Hey, you know, we need to make sure that we can grow by this amount. We're going to grow our revenue by this amount. How are we going to support our distribution? How are we going to support our dealers with new leads and what is the best means for us to get there and what budget do we need to be at? And also in this industry, there's just so many shady characters in marketing, SEO, the whole thing, you know how it is, it's, it's consistent. Just down a rabbit hole of, of shit and everybody's selling you on nothing. So he's, he's, he's really in there. Just to cut through it all for.

[Cameron Herald]

Me, I like the lot. I did bump into somebody recently who goes into companies and helps them identify AI tools that they can use across the organization. I have not worked with them, but I've heard very, very good things about them. If anybody wants an intro, I do not make a referral fee off this guy, but I've heard some very good things about him. If anybody does want an intro, sure. Just draw again, drop me an email. I'll put my email address in here for anybody wants it. If you want emails on or intros on that. And by the way, if you don't have your COO signed up for the event in, in March, there's only seven seats left. We have 53 people have already signed up to come to that. Make sure your COO is coming. Colleen, question.

[Podcast Announcer]

Yeah, I guess my question is now that I kind of step back in. So I had the coo. There was no oversight. I had to let her go. Then I started to look at how many people were here and there's just a lot of fluff. There was just a lot of fluff and nobody was really doing anything and there was a lot of money going out to those people. So I cut about 40% of our staff. And I think everybody's really like, what's going on? And they're hearing from me for, for the first time. And so my thought is to just sort of have a real transparent, like, hey, guys, I'm back. I'm back clearing a house. I want to know what you're doing every day. And you should be able to be accountable and on time. Dr. Every day, tracking your time so that when I'm running payroll, I know exactly what you're doing.

[Cameron Herald]

So here's. So, Colleen, you're doing all the right stuff. I would like you to kind of send me back a brief, like a half page brief on everything we talked about on that call and what you've done with it. So I just. I was thinking about. I don't want to go through the holidays without getting an update from you. So if you could do that, that would be great. The key right now is to make sure that you've ripped off the whole band aid. Like, guys know this worse than women, but, like, one fucking hair at a time. It's just really fucking painful, right? Like, rip off the band aid. So cut deep, cut once. If there's anybody left in your company that you're thinking you maybe should. I'm not quite. Fucking get rid of them. Do it, like, just cut everything that's dead. Then remember that. There's a bit of a survivor guilt, there's a bit of a worry, but it only lasts a few days. Like, I remember getting divorced the first time and telling a friend of mine I was getting divorced, and I was like, oh, God, this is gonna be a horrible conversation. It's gonna take like two hours. Like 12 seconds later, he's like, yeah, so what are you doing this weekend? I'm like, I just fucking told you I'm getting divorced. He's like, yeah, I know, you'll be fine. We'll talk about it. Like, because people are so used to it, right? People are used to getting fired. People like. But just so know that that dust is settled before you think it's settled. They've already moved on more than you think they moved on. But you need to give them the new lay of the land, and it needs to be a calming lay of the land. A and you're showing up with really good calm now, which is really nice. But it has to be calming. It has to be caring. It has to be. And I think it's time to write a vivid vision for where you're going to take the organization over the next three years and show them. This is now where we're going again, right? We've cut the dead weight, we cut the waste. We had Some mismanagement, You're all safe. The big earthquake that happened, the tremors are over. There's no more earthquakes. And by the way, I'm not going to say no one will ever get fired again. But the only people that will ever get fired again are the ones that either don't live the core values or don't get results for what we're paying them to get results on. If people deliver results and live core values, they will always be safe here. Okay. As long as you say that and show them where you're going, everything's good.

[Podcast Announcer]

Okay.

[Cameron Herald]

I like that last question. Jason. Yes.

[Colleen]

So with your job description, where did you post that? And then when you got, let's just say hundreds of revenues, the resumes.

[Cameron Herald]

Resume is back.

[Colleen]

We, we put the job description into AI and created this CMO type Persona or HR Persona. I'm sorry for that one. And then we uploaded all resumes and said we know. Or we looked at the top ones and put the 10 in there. Said, what are your differences? So I was wondering like what where you posted, what your process was.

[Cameron Herald]

Sure. So we posted it with a recruiting agency based out of Europe. Nick knows Elena. She runs the agency out of Europe. She did a fantastic job with helping us hire the person. She's a really, really strong process. She brought us all the candidates, she brought us the vetted candidates. So they ran the process and then I put them through my interview process. My interview process, regardless of how many resumes I get, is pretty much the same. I don't look at any resume. I instantly send them back an email that says thanks very much for your resume. Please read the vivid vision of what our company looks like, acts like, and feels like in the future, read this recent article of us in the media. And if you like what our future sounds like and you want to be a part of it, send me a two to three minute video of how you want to make it come true and what you're excited about. If I like your video, I'll read your resume. Couple people we had to send it to once or twice after that, that's all they got. Then I did a 30 minute interview with each of the people and with with each of the candidates of the videos that I liked from the ones who's sent me the videos that I liked and whose 30 minute video or 30 minute interview I liked. After I'd already gotten their video and I like the resume, I sent them this email as a project and it said spend 10. Oh, so here it is. For this test Project. There are two core areas to work on. If you're hired, these will be two core areas with three to four others as well. CEO alliance and my course. Spend 10 hours maximum. Log your time and show me how much time you spent on each area and what you did for each one. This will help me see how you think, how you work, how you prioritize, etc. I'll pay you $15 an hour for 10 hours on completion. Do ideally have this baked back to me no later than September 8th, midnight. That was like on the 4th. So she had four days. She was able to get it from the 4th till the 8th. Assume you only have a small marketing budget for 20, 25, $50,000 total to do all these things. Create a marketing plan and a calendar. Create seal for seal lines membership. Create a marketing plan and calendar for the course. Create a social post calendar. Create five short videos from this podcast I was on when editing. Use captioning, annotating B roll. Create five 59 to 89 second clips. You can hire someone to do it for you if you manage them. I'll give you a budget of $50 total for that. Create five images, quotes, write two blog posts. Like, if I can give them this whole test project, they came back to me. The winner came back to me with this whole project. Can you guys see the slide deck?

[Colleen]

Not yet. Not yet.

[Cameron Herald]

She came back to me with this slide deck of all of her output. So here's all the work, her time logging, how much she spent on each one. She gave me the actual scenarios, she gave me the websites that she looked at, social media that she did the interview of. Here's a marketing plan, here's the channels, here's the matrix of what she's going to be measuring. She fucking nailed the whole thing. And then even after she did all this shit, which is freaking amazing, I get to use all this in my marketing anyway. Even if I don't hire her, I get to use it. This unbelievable amount of work that she came back to, I'm like, okay, you're fucking in. And she did it for like 15 hours. Anybody that can crank all this workout in 15 hours, I want them to work for me. At the end she came back and she said, oh, by the way, we've been talking about AI and the power of the second grand podcast. I felt it only right to let AI take the stage for the grand finale. Here's a special podcast recapping the highlights of this presentation. Because who doesn't love a little peer to peer learning? From AI. I didn't ask her to do this. Listen to this.

[Podcast Announcer]

So today we are diving into a real marketing plan. Like budgets and calendars. The real deal.

[Cameron Herald]

Oh, yeah, the whole shebang.

[Podcast Announcer]

Exactly. We're talking about a proposal for Cameron Herald and the CEO Alliance. And let me tell you, this thing is ambitious.

[Cameron Herald]

Yeah, it's pretty impressive. We actually get to see the marketing theory put into practice, you know, and with some serious money behind it too.

[Podcast Announcer]

Yeah, no kidding. And the mastermind behind it all is Bianca Barbieri. Over 15 years of experience, international work, she's a pro. But here's what really stood out to me. She tracked every single minute she spent on this project. Talk about attention to detail.

[Cameron Herald]

Wow. It's impressive. That's a good. Okay, I'll send you this just for fun. But you know what's crazy? All she did was upload her slide deck to an AI tool called Notebook, and the AI tool created that six minute podcast episode talking about the work that she submitted to me.

[Colleen]

Genius.

[Cameron Herald]

I'm like, dude, you're in. I got you. I like, like, I don't care. Like who? Yeah, but that.

[Colleen]

She was like, like 50K.

[Cameron Herald]

Yeah, she's 50,000 a year, full time. That's awesome, right? So, yeah, I. So. And I had two other qualified candidates I could have hired as well. So the. The key though is to run that process, right? Don't read resumes, don't let your HR team read resumes. Make through the first hoop and don't sell them. If I sold her on how great my company is, she would have run away. So what I do is I make her read a five page vivid vision and some press and then tell me why she wants to work for me. I reverse the sales process. You never, ever, ever sell a good candidate on why you're so good to work for. They'll run away. It's like a really pretty girl plays hard to get. There's no way a good looking girl is going to let the guy get in right away. Right? Like you got to ask her six times before she's letting you take her out on a date.

[Colleen]

Got it.

[Cameron Herald]

I'm sure Lacy still plays hard to get with Nick. As she should. All right, everybody have a good week. Remember, none of this shit actually matters. Have fun out there. Let's take care of our people. Enjoy the journey.

[Podcast Announcer]

You've been listening to Second In Command, brought to you by COO alliance founder Cameron Herald. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to, like, share and subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts Spotify and our other podcast streaming platforms. For more best practices from industry leading COOs, visit COOAlliance.com.