Podcast Summary: Second in Command: The Chief Behind the Chief with Cameron Herold

Episode: Ep. 493 - Mastering Operations: How COOs Empower CEOs in Growth
Release Date: July 17, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 493 of the Second in Command Podcast, host Cameron Herold delves deep into the elusive and often misunderstood role of the Chief Operating Officer (COO). Bringing insights from his best-selling book, The Second in Command, Herold aims to clarify what constitutes a true COO and dispel common misconceptions surrounding the title. He emphasizes that many individuals labeled as COOs may actually be directors, VPs, or chiefs of staff, highlighting the critical need for understanding the distinct value a genuine COO brings to an organization.

Defining the COO Role

Herold begins by addressing the prevalent misinformation about COOs. He notes that while roles like CMO or CFO are often standardized across companies, the COO position varies significantly based on the unique needs of the CEO and the organization.

Key Insight:

"The COO has to be great at whatever the CEO sucks at."
— Cameron Herold [02:41]

Using his experience at 1-800-GOT-JUNK, Herold illustrates how a COO complements the CEO by handling operations, execution, culture, marketing, sales, and more, allowing the CEO to focus on areas where they may lack expertise or interest.

Seven Types of COOs

Drawing from the work of Nate Bennett and Stephen Miles, as well as their Harvard Business Review article, Herold outlines seven primary categories of COOs. Each type serves different strategic functions within an organization, and often, a single COO may embody multiple categories.

1. Executor

The Executor is the traditional COO, essential in operationally intensive industries like airlines and large tech firms. This type ensures daily operations run smoothly, allowing the CEO to concentrate on long-term vision.

Example:
Herold references his role at 1-800-GOT-JUNK, where he managed operations to support rapid growth, effectively embodying the Executor role.

2. Change Agent

Change Agents are brought in to oversee significant transformations, such as company turnarounds or major growth phases. They often come from outside the organization to provide a fresh perspective and drive necessary changes.

Example:
Larry Ellison hired Ray Lane from Booz Allen Hamilton to revamp Oracle’s sales and marketing strategies, exemplifying the Change Agent’s impact.

3. Mentor

The Mentor COO supports young or inexperienced CEOs, particularly in startups experiencing rapid scaling. They guide CEOs in managerial abilities and operational strategies.

Example:
Herold shares his experience mentoring Brian at 1-800-GOT-JUNK, helping develop franchise operations and strategic growth plans.

4. Other Half

This type emphasizes the partnership between the CEO and COO, likening it to a marriage. The COO complements the CEO’s strengths and mitigates their weaknesses, fostering a balanced leadership dynamic.

Quote:

"It's a quintessential two in a box configuration."
— Cameron Herold

Example:
At 1-800-GOT-JUNK, Herold’s enthusiasm for public speaking and motivating people complemented Brian’s operational focus, making him the “other half” of the leadership team.

5. Partner

Partner COOs co-lead with CEOs, often sharing equity or being co-founders. They help distribute responsibilities, allowing CEOs to focus on strategic vision while the COO manages execution.

Example:
Herold discusses how a Partner COO can free up the CEO’s time, enabling a healthier work-life balance and fostering organizational growth.

6. Heir Apparent

This COO type is groomed as a potential future CEO. The role allows COOs to learn all facets of the business, ensuring a smooth transition when the time comes.

Example:
Matt Woll's progression from COO to President at Acceleration Partners exemplifies the successful transition from COO to CEO.

7. MVP (Most Valuable Player)

The MVP COO is an internal hire promoted to retain their unique capabilities within the company. This promotion not only recognizes their critical contributions but also boosts retention by elevating their status.

Quote:

"When I became Brian's COO... I was better at some aspects of the business than Brian and he was happy to hand off those responsibilities."
— Cameron Herold [15:24]

Example:
Harley Finkelstein’s promotion to COO at Shopify is highlighted as an MVP case, where his business development focus was crucial for the company’s growth.

Evolving Roles and Integration

Herold discusses how the role of the COO has evolved, particularly in tech startups. Initially seen as the "adult in the room," modern COOs often act as partners in the adventure, contributing to both strategic and operational aspects of the business.

Key Points:

• Follower vs. Devil’s Advocate: COOs may either follow the CEO’s directives or challenge them constructively to foster innovation and prevent stagnation.
• Integrator Role: Inspired by Gino Wickman’s work, the Integrator ensures alignment between the CEO’s vision and the organization’s execution. This role becomes more complex as companies scale, requiring COOs to build standardized systems, enhance communication, and enforce accountability.

Quote:

"The CEO describes the what and then leaves the COO to figure out how and the who to make it happen."
— Cameron Herold

Example: Herold recounts his tenure at 1-800-GOT-JUNK, highlighting the transition from a growth-focused startup to a large organization requiring a sophisticated Integrator COO like Lonnie Skinner, former President of Starbucks USA.

Conclusion

Cameron Herold emphasizes that there is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to COOs. The effectiveness of a COO hinges on their ability to complement the CEO’s strengths and address their weaknesses, tailored to the unique needs of the organization. By understanding the various types of COOs and their respective roles, CEOs can make informed decisions when selecting a COO, ensuring a harmonious and productive leadership dynamic that drives organizational growth.

Final Thoughts:

"Ultimately, again, there are as many different COOs as there are CEOs. But there are certain common roles."
— Cameron Herold [27:13]

Herold concludes by encouraging listeners to evaluate their organizational needs carefully and consider how a COO can be the pivotal force behind achieving their business aspirations.

Notable Quotes

• Defining COO’s Strengths:

  "The COO has to be great at whatever the CEO sucks at."
  — Cameron Herold [02:41]

• Executor Role:

  "Transfer your ideas and information to them and they execute the things you want to happen."
  — Cameron Herold [07:48]

• Partnership Dynamics:

  "It's a quintessential two in a box configuration."
  — Cameron Herold

• MVP Promotion:

  "They didn't know I'd already grown two franchise companies. He trusted me and I had the skills he didn't have."
  — Cameron Herold [07:49]

• Integrator Responsibilities:

  "The integrator is the person who is the tiebreaker for the leadership team, is the glue for the organization, beats the drum, provides cadence, is accountable for the P and L results..."
  — Cameron Herold [21:15]

Additional Resources

For those interested in further exploring the role of the COO, Herold recommends his online training program, Invest in Your Leaders. This program covers twelve core leadership skills essential for managerial growth and is available at investinyourleaders.com with a promotional discount code podcast10.

Listen to more insights from industry-leading COOs by subscribing to the Second in Command Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and other major streaming platforms. For additional resources and best practices, visit COOAlliance.com.