Ep. 495 - Make Your Meetings NOT Suck: How To Revolutionize Your Meetings For Real Results

Summary

Second in Command: The Chief Behind the Chief with Cameron Herold
Episode Summary: Ep. 495 - Make Your Meetings NOT Suck: How To Revolutionize Your Meetings For Real Results
Release Date: July 24, 2025

In Episode 495 of the Second in Command podcast, host Cameron Herold delves deep into the often-loathed world of business meetings. Drawing from extensive research and personal experience, He offers actionable strategies to transform mundane gatherings into productive, time-efficient sessions that drive real results.

Introduction: The Value of Meetings

Cameron Herold sets the stage by highlighting the critical role meetings play in organizational success. He emphasizes that CEOs and top executives must lead by example, particularly concerning punctuality and meeting management.

“The CEO of the company can never, ever, ever be late for a phone call or a meeting. Because if you are, what you're saying is your core values don't actually matter.”
— Cameron Herold [00:00]

The Root Cause: Lack of Training

Herold identifies the fundamental issue plaguing most meetings: a lack of proper training. He argues that neither managers nor employees receive adequate instruction on how to conduct or participate in effective meetings, leading to inefficiency and frustration.

“None of us would ever send our kid off to play little league baseball without teaching them how to hold the bat or toss the ball or catch the ball because they'd come home from baseball and they'd go home from baseball and they'd go, daddy, baseball sucks.”
— Cameron Herold [02:10]

The Importance of Punctuality and System Design

The conversation pivots to the significance of punctuality in meetings. Herold posits that being consistently late conveys a lack of respect and undermines a company's core values. To combat this, he advocates for creating robust systems that ensure meetings start and end on time.

“If I don't want you to be late, what's the system that's broken that has you showing up late?”
— Cameron Herold [00:00]

Practical Systems to Improve Meetings

Herold introduces several key strategies designed to overhaul the traditional meeting structure:

1. Implementing Time Buffers

One of the first changes Herold recommends is incorporating a 5-minute buffer before and after meetings. This prevents scheduling meetings back-to-back, thereby reducing tardiness and allowing time for transition.

“We really sought to understand meetings and what we realized was all of us book our meetings and phone calls back to back. We don't put a buffer in place.”
— Cameron Herold [04:58]

2. Adopting the No Agenda Rule

Herold champions the "No Agenda, No Agenda" rule, which mandates that all meetings must have a clear purpose, desired outcomes, and a structured agenda. This ensures that meetings are focused and time-bound.

“If somebody is requesting you to show up for a meeting and it doesn't show you the purpose and outcome, and then what you're covering... have people say, I can't come until you finish this.”
— Cameron Herold [05:45]

3. Controlling Meeting Duration with Parkinson’s Law

By setting strict time limits, Herold leverages Parkinson’s Law—the principle that work expands to fill the time available. Shorter meetings encourage efficiency and focus, leading to higher productivity.

“Parkinson's law doesn't expand the meeting to be too long, and then you'll actually get more shit done with less people faster.”
— Cameron Herold [05:20]

4. Selective Participant Inclusion

Herold advises evaluating who truly needs to attend each meeting. Limiting attendance to essential personnel ensures that everyone's time is respected and that meetings are more effective.

“If you're covering more than three or four topics, there's probably a good chance that if you're covering more than three or four topics, there's a couple people that don't need to be there for all the topics.”
— Cameron Herold [08:30]

Real-World Applications and Success Stories

Herold shares success stories from his tenure at companies like 1-800-GETJUNK, Gerber Auto Collision, and College Pro Painters. By implementing these meeting strategies, he and his teams achieved exponential growth and operational efficiency.

“These are the simple systems that we use to scale. Not only 1,800 got junk, but I built Gerber Auto Collision... College Pro Painters became the largest ten-painting company on the planet.”
— Cameron Herold [06:50]

Balancing Structure and Flexibility

A common concern is that overly structured meetings can stifle spontaneity and relationship-building. Herold addresses this by providing a balanced approach:

“These little systems again, you control Parkinson's law. But that little structure doesn't take away from the synchronicity that can happen... you can still build in time to check in with each other.”
— Cameron Herold [08:05]

He illustrates this with an example of a 30-minute introductory call, divided into sharing, mutual support, and wrapping up early to respect everyone's time.

Conclusion: Transforming Meeting Culture

Herold concludes by reiterating that effective meetings are not about rigidity but about respect for time and clear objectives. By implementing the discussed systems, organizations can significantly enhance their productivity and employee satisfaction.

“These are on the soft skills of leadership you need to be good at.”
— Cameron Herold [06:40]

Final Thoughts

Episode 495 serves as a comprehensive guide for executives and team leaders aiming to revamp their meeting culture. Cameron Herold's insights provide a practical framework to eliminate inefficiency, foster respect, and drive meaningful outcomes in every meeting.

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Note: This summary excludes promotional segments and focuses solely on the core content of the episode to provide a clear and concise overview for those who haven't listened.

Transcript

[Cameron Herold]

The CEO of the company can never, ever, ever be late for a phone call or a meeting. Because if you are, what you're saying is your core values don't actually matter. So you have to create a system that allows people to then show up on time for meetings. Right. If I don't want you to be late, what's the system that's broken that has you showing up late? So we started to analyze that. We read the book Death by Meetings. We met with Pat Buncioni, we talked to Vern Harnish about his meeting stuff. We really sought to understand meetings and what we realized was all of us book our meetings and phone calls back to back.

[Podcast Host]

Welcome to the Second In Command podcast produced by the COO alliance and brought to you by its founder, Cameron Herold. In the second in command podcast, we talk to top COOs who share the insights, strategies and tactics that made them the chief behind the chief. And now here's your host, Cameron Herald.

[Guest Speaker]

You know, meetings suck because we're never taught how to run or even participate in them. I'm here to fix that. Today I'm sharing practical, actionable systems I've used to transform meetings and scale companies like 1-800-GETJUNK. Discover the power of the 5 minute buffer and my no agenda, no agenda rule. I'll detail how these simple principles were instrumental for Gerber Auto Collision and College Propaners. Learn how to apply structure to informal meetings and ensure only the right people attend, saving time and boosting your roi.

[Interviewer]

So you wrote a book called Meaning Stuck. So you don't really mean meaning stuck.

[Cameron Herold]

You just mean the way most people do meanings. You know, and I probably missed. I did mistitle that book. It was actually written by a genius network member. It was by scribe books. They used to be called book in a box. I met Tucker at one of the events and I, I should have called it how to Unstuck youk Meetings or something like that because people think, oh yeah, meeting stock. I don't need to read the book. No, the book is to teach you how to run meetings that don't suck. And this includes like L10 is just one kind of meeting. You've got annual planning meetings, quarterly planning meetings, financial review meetings, one on one coaching meetings, zoom calls. Like there's all types of meetings. But the reasons Meetings Stuck is almost none of you have ever had training on how to run meetings. And you have managers, leadership team people who run meetings every single day and they have no training on how to run meetings. And then you have employees that are showing up at meetings that don't know how to participate in them because no one's trained them. So of course meetings suck because we suck at running meetings. Right? None of us would ever send our kid off to play little league baseball without teaching them how to hold the bat or toss the ball or catch the ball because they'd come home from baseball and they'd go, daddy, baseball sucks. Like, no, Johnny, you suck at baseball. So we've all. I can't stand listening to entrepreneurs complain about stuff, Knowing that first principle is the root cause is you had no training to do it. The reason business is difficult is you've had no training on interviewing people. Maybe you've done it 100 times, but you might have done it wrong all 100 times. You coach people one on one, but you probably never had any training on coaching. You run time management, project management. You execute meetings. You deal with conflict with no training. Like, there's these layers of skills that if we give our people those skills, it would make business easier. Russ was just saying he's got all of his employees reading the book meeting stuck right now because he wants them to be able to run these meetings and stop complaining about it.

[Interviewer]

So let's give us a fix that people can do, make them better.

[Cameron Herold]

So I'll give you an example. So who here has people showing up late for meetings? All of us. Who here, as an entrepreneur, ever shows up late for meetings? Almost all of you. You just check in. Almost all of you show up late for meetings and you tend to show up and you go, sorry, I'm late. Right? I've put a mantra in place now with all the clients that I've coached globally that when you hear, sorry I'm late, what it really means is f you, I'm disrespectful. My time's more valuable than yours.

[Guest Speaker]

Hey, it's Cameron. I hope you're loving today's episode. Quick question for you. Does your company have a strong leadership training program in place to grow the skills of everyone who manages people? If you want to help yourself and your company grow, get everyone who manages people learning from my invest in your leaders online training program. There are 12 core leadership skills that I cover online and they're all going to really grow. CEOs pay me $78,000 a year to coach them one on one. And now you can all benefit for 1% of what they pay me. These are the same leadership skills that I created and Certified everyone in at 1, 800 got junk when I was there as COO, go to investinyourleaders.com today and use promo code podcast10 before the end of the month to get 10% off each manager you sign up. Now back to the show.

[Cameron Herold]

The CEO of the company can never, ever, ever be late for a phone call or a meeting. Because if you are, what you're saying is your core values don't actually matter. So you have to create a system that allows people to then show up on time for meetings. Right. If I don't want you to be late, what's the system that's broken, that has you showing up late? So we started to analyze that. We read the book Death by Meetings. We met with Pat Buncioni, we talked to Vern Harnish about his meeting stuff. We really sought to understand meetings. And what we realized was all of us book our meetings and phone calls back to back. We don't put a buffer in place. Now, I can't train you to put a buffer in place. That would be a good system. If we would all globally put five minute buffers in place, that could work. The system that does work is train everyone. And this is your customers, suppliers, employees, that every meeting and every phone call ends five minutes prior to the scheduled ending time. So if we start a meeting from 9, that goes from 9 till 10, we finish at 9:55. So what we do internally and what I teach all my clients to do is we start the meeting by reviewing the purpose and outcome and agenda. I'll go over that in a second. And we say, by the way, I know the meeting step from 10 till 10:30, we finish at 10:25 so we can show up on time for our next call. And they go, wow, nobody's ever done that before. On the agenda part, I say no agenda, no agenda. So if somebody is requesting you to show up for a meeting and it doesn't show you the purpose and outcome, and then what you're covering, in what order you're covering it, and how many minutes you're spending on each agenda item. Have people say, I can't come until you finish this. Why would they ever say yes to show up at something if they don't know what that purpose is? And it allows the person booking the meeting to actually book it for less time. Because you think about what you're covering, you think about how many minutes you actually need for each agenda's item. The Parkinson's law doesn't expand the meeting to be too long, and then you'll actually get more shit done with less people faster. So These are the simple systems that we use to scale. Not only 1, 800 got junk, but I built Gerber Auto Collision. Who here has heard of Gerber? So Gerber is about a $2 billion publicly traded company. I was one of the three co founders of the franchising group for Gerber, now a big public company, College Pro Painters. And here at College Pro, I opened the west coast of the United States for College Pro became the largest tennis painting company on the planet. Kimbal Musk worked for me back in 1993. So I trained Kimball and his COO Peter Reeve, who built SolarCity. I trained both of them 30 years ago. These systems are really simple to easy like systems, but they're not again taught in a lot of the operating systems out there. These are on the soft skills of leadership you need to be good at.

[Interviewer]

So let's take a real scenario where you say people are here, they meet someone, they're like, yeah, let's hop on the call and talk. Right.

[Cameron Herold]

They're going to go over stuff.

[Interviewer]

So you're very outcome focused and agenda focused on a productive meeting. Then there's, if you become too formal, it may take away what feels like, oh, like let's just get to know each other sort of thing. How do you approach that without it being so overly rigid?

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah. So let's say, let's take an example. I get introduced to Jason and Jason and I are going to do a quick 30 minute call to get to know each other. I just say the purpose of the call is to get to know each other. Outcome is you do 10 minutes share, I'll do a 10 minute share. And then let's wrap with five minutes of how we can help each other. We'll finish the call five minutes early so we can show up on time for our next call. Not bad. People often always say, let's get together for an hour, let's grab an hour of coffee. I try to book it for half the time. I first think about booking it for, it's like a quickie. You can get it done the last time. If you need to think about, if it's an all day meeting, book it for four hours. So when you build in these little systems again, you control Parkinson's law. But that little structure doesn't take away from the synchronicity that can happen. It just allows people to go, okay, I have a container. I know you're serious about contributing, I'll be serious about contributing. And you can still build in time to check in with each other, make sure you're on a good you know what's on with your life, but it doesn't just stretch on to whatever and you end up having meetings. Let's say you have more than three or four people coming to the meeting. There's probably a good chance that if you're covering more than three or four topics, there's a couple people that don't need to be there for all the topics. So you start to realize when you look at the agenda who really needs to come. And then you can allow people to stay at their desk and work on projects that are a higher ROI for their time than just showing up at every meeting.

[Podcast Host]

You'Ve been listening to. Second In Command brought to you by COO alliance founder Cameron Herold. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to like, share and subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and their other podcast streaming platforms. For more best practices from industry leading COOs, visit COOAlliance.com come.