Ep. 496 - Stephanie Meyer - The Unexpected Link Between Well-Being and Unstoppable Professional Growth

Summary

Podcast Summary: Second in Command: The Chief Behind the Chief with Cameron Herold

Episode: Ep. 496 - Stephanie Meyer - The Unexpected Link Between Well-Being and Unstoppable Professional Growth
Release Date: July 29, 2025
Host: Savannah Brewer, Co-Host of the Second in Command Podcast
Guest: Stephanie Meyer, COO of Children's Mercy, Kansas City

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1. Introduction and Guest Background (00:00 - 04:00)

The episode kicks off with a brief introduction from Steph Meyer, COO of Children's Mercy in Kansas City, Missouri. Meyer emphasizes the importance of hiring the right people, stating, “If you've hired the right people, 99.9% of people come to work to do a good job. Nobody wants to be on a B team” (00:00). Meyer oversees a vast team of approximately 6,000 employees in a complex healthcare environment, highlighting her extensive experience of nearly 28 years in the industry.

Savannah Brewer welcomes Meyer, noting the mutual Missouri connection and expressing excitement about the depth of their conversation focused on leadership, heart, communication, and people management within a large healthcare organization.

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2. Leadership in Healthcare and Team Dynamics (04:00 - 07:36)

Meyer delves into the unique challenges of leading a diverse and extensive team in a hospital setting. She explains, “The way you lead somebody who is running security for an 8,500 employed hospital is different than the anesthesia doc” (04:52). Her role involves aligning various professionals—from security personnel to nurses and respiratory therapists—around common goals such as safety, patient outcomes, and overall patient experience.

Savannah Brewer probes into how leadership messages are effectively communicated from the top down, especially in a large organization, to which Meyer responds by outlining her strategies for maintaining consistency and clarity in leadership communication.

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3. Ensuring Top-Down Healthy Messaging (07:36 - 13:05)

Addressing the challenge of maintaining consistency in messaging across a large organization, Meyer shares her approach to ensuring that core values are effectively communicated. She states, “I center all my messages around three things every single time... lead with love, be better tomorrow than you are today, and if you can help, you should” (07:36). These principles serve as a foundation for all her communications, whether in large orientations or smaller team meetings.

Meyer emphasizes the importance of being visible and authentic in leadership roles, ensuring that messages are not only heard but also believed and acted upon by all team members.

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4. The Importance of Authenticity and Emotion in Leadership (13:05 - 21:59)

The conversation shifts to the significance of leading with emotion and authenticity. Brewer highlights the contrast between COOs who are people-oriented versus those who focus on operations and strategy. Meyer responds by underscoring that “people will work, they will die for you, they will run through fire for you” if they believe in the same common goals and values (14:13).

Meyer shares anecdotes illustrating how understanding employees’ personal stories and maintaining a positive intent can transform team dynamics and performance. She stresses the necessity of avoiding negative assumptions and fostering an environment where employees feel genuinely supported and valued.

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5. Handling Assumptions and Building Relationships (21:59 - 29:04)

Meyer and Brewer discuss the pitfalls of making negative assumptions about employees' actions without understanding their underlying reasons. Meyer recounts instances where leaders might misinterpret behaviors due to personal biases, leading to strained relationships and reduced team cohesion. She advises, “Remember though, they each have a story... it has to do with most likely their individual story” (25:53).

The dialogue emphasizes the importance of open-ended questions and active listening to uncover the true reasons behind employees' behaviors, thereby fostering trust and stronger workplace relationships.

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6. Measuring Wellness Initiatives ROI (29:04 - 37:34)

Brewer inquires about the effectiveness and return on investment (ROI) of Children's Mercy’s wellness initiatives. Meyer explains their comprehensive approach to measuring success, which includes metrics like employee intent to stay, usage rates of wellness services, and feedback from pulse surveys. She states, “We measure intent to stay, usage of the program, and look at turnover percentages” (35:20).

Meyer highlights the critical role of a supportive executive team in implementing these initiatives and shares how their wellness center has positively impacted employee retention and mental health, particularly in high-stress environments like healthcare.

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7. Self-Care for Leaders (37:34 - 43:58)

The conversation turns personal as Brewer asks Meyer about her self-care routines to stay grounded amidst her demanding role. Meyer candidly discusses the challenges of maintaining work-life balance, emphasizing the importance of adequate sleep, regular reading, exercise, and setting firm boundaries to protect her personal time. She mentions, “I make a pretty hard effort to read before I go to bed and try to be in bed at a decent time” (39:45).

Meyer also touches on the difficulty leaders face in saying no and the strategies she employs, such as delegating decision-making to her administrative support, to ensure she remains focused and energized.

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8. Closing and Future Excitement (43:58 - End)

In the closing segment, Brewer invites Meyer to share what excites her about the future both professionally and personally. Meyer expresses enthusiasm for the transformative potential of AI in healthcare, anticipating significant improvements in patient care and operational efficiency. Personally, she looks forward to nurturing her relationship with her children as they grow into adulthood.

Meyer concludes with a reflection on legacy, hoping to mentor the next generation of leaders who will surpass her achievements: “When I hand off and give the baton, I hope that person's ahead” (46:14).

Savannah Brewer wraps up the episode by thanking Meyer for her insightful contributions, highlighting it as one of the most impactful conversations on the podcast.

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Notable Quotes

• Steph Meyer (00:00): “If you've hired the right people, 99.9% of people come to work to do a good job. Nobody wants to be on a B team.”

• Steph Meyer (07:36): “I center all my messages around three things every single time... lead with love, be better tomorrow than you are today, and if you can help, you should.”

• Steph Meyer (14:13): “People will work, they will die for you, they will run through fire for you if they believe in the same common goals and values.”

• Steph Meyer (25:53): “Remember though, they each have a story... it has to do with most likely their individual story.”

• Steph Meyer (35:20): “We measure intent to stay, usage of the program, and look at turnover percentages.”

• Steph Meyer (39:45): “I make a pretty hard effort to read before I go to bed and try to be in bed at a decent time.”

• Steph Meyer (46:14): “When I hand off and give the baton, I hope that person's ahead.”

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Conclusion

This episode of Second in Command offers a profound exploration of the interplay between employee well-being and professional growth. Stephanie Meyer’s insights into authentic leadership, effective communication, and comprehensive wellness initiatives provide valuable strategies for COOs and leaders across industries aiming to foster supportive and high-performing teams.

For more episodes and best practices from top COOs, visit COOAlliance.com.

Transcript

[Steph Meyer]

I think it's an interesting concept and seems so simple, but we forget, right? Well, everybody comes to work. You need to come to do your job. This is why we're all here, right? What happened this morning at home that all of a sudden they may be showing up differently today because nobody comes to work to host somebody else, despite what we all think. If you've hired the right people, 99.9% of people come to work to do a good job. Nobody wants to be on a B team, right? I'm like, how many of you want to be on a mediocre team? Everybody's like, not me, right? So we're trying to hire the A team, right? All of us trying to hire the best there are in the industry. Let's find the right conglomerate of people to make this happen. And so they all come to work to do a good job. And within their story, if it's that morning, if it's last week, if it's two years ago, affects the way they show up to work.

[Cameron Herold]

Welcome to the Second in Command podcast produced by the COO alliance and brought to you by its founder, Cameron Herold. In the second in command podcast, we talk to top COOs who share the insights, strategies and tactics that made them the chief behind the chief. And now here's your co host, former COO of a multi eight figure remote company and alumni member of the COO Alliance, Savannah Brewer.

[Savannah Brewer]

Today's guest is Steph Meyer. She is the COO of Children's Mercy, Kansas City, where she's responsible for over 3,000 nurses and she's been in healthcare for nearly 28 years. And I've got to say, this is one of my most energizing, impactful conversations that I've had yet on this podcast. I highly recommend listening because there are a lot of episodes we've done on tactical operations strategy systems, and this episode is very, very focused on leadership and heart, communication and people. We go into so many different types of topics around communicating succinctly and consistently with large teams, why emotion is so critical in leadership, and the core beliefs that Steph brings into the culture. At Children's Mercy, we talk about common mistakes that leaders make when they're dealing with people who are struggling outside of work and in work and really how to approach those moments with heart and empathy and compassion and being able to instill that same level and heart and intention into middle management so that it trickles down all the way from the top. So if you are ready to elevate how you lead with heart and compassion for people and really empowering your team to step into even greater possibility for themselves. And I highly recommend this podcast as we welcome in Steph. We are live with Steph. Welcome to the show.

[Steph Meyer]

Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

[Savannah Brewer]

Yeah, this has been awesome. We already hit it off before starting the recording because we are Missouri girls and you are in city and I am from Missouri as well, so. And just your energy and enthusiasm, I know this is going to be such an amazing episode and I can't wait to dive in with you.

[Steph Meyer]

Well, I'm so glad that we had that immediate connection and I'd say the same about you. It's going to be great, huh?

[Savannah Brewer]

Here we go. Well, let's go ahead and start off with. Give us a little bit of an introduction. What do you do and who do you serve?

[Steph Meyer]

Sure. So I am the chief operating officer and chief nurse executive at a level one trauma center hospital in the Midwest in Kansas City, Missouri, called Children's Mercy. And I am responsible for about 6,000 people and do all everything from people management to strategy to org development and love it. It's a great job.

[Savannah Brewer]

Sounds like a lot of things to manage. I know you were telling me before this that you're pretty much at work all day right now. I was telling you I have a really close friend who just became an anesthesiologist and just even hearing through all of her stories and experiences, and she worked at a trauma center for a while. It sounds like it can be really chaotic and there's a lot of personalities at play. There's just a lot of different dynamics. So I would love. Maybe this is a fun place for us to start. I know one of the key topics we want to talk about is people leadership today. Could you give us kind of what is a rundown of the overview in terms of people dynamics in a hospital? Like, as me, as someone that goes to a hospital, I just understand it from, you know, going to get my needs met. What is it like actually being in leadership and being in a team environment in a hospital?

[Steph Meyer]

Sure. That's such a great question because I really think that when you go, like you said, the people were serving come and they're focused on the actual healthcare piece of what they need, whether it's a clinic visit, an ed visit, surgery, that type of thing. But they my job is to really look at the overall enterprise. And that's from the very first person you see, from the security guard that checks you in to the very last person you see. Which might be the person that takes your kiddo out in the wheelchair and then you have everything in between. So like your friend the anesthesia doc and the primary doc and the nurses and our respiratory therapist. And my point with bringing that up is it's such a wide range of skillset and wide range of experience that the leadership piece can be a little bit tricky. Right. The way you lead somebody who is running security for a 8,500 employed hospital is different than the anesthesia doc that you talked about and their goals are different. So trying to bring everybody around a common goal, around safety, patient outcomes and experience overall for everybody that enters our institution is something that I try to do every day. And so it is an interesting dynamic. The complexity is that comes into healthcare specifically and really a lot of industries, but specifically healthcare around everything that has to interact for somebody to heal, have a good experience or if we can't heal you, how do we get you to a point of comfort so that you continue to live your life in a way and your family lives their life in a way that continues to grow and isn't detrimental?

[Savannah Brewer]

What is the kind of trickle down effect or how do you make sure that like what's coming from the top is going all the way down? Because the role that you're in is so unique. Which is why I'm, I'm so excited about having this conversation. The companies that I've gone into myself and the people that I've interviewed, you know, there's companies really small that I've experienced where you come in and man, it is so clear that the owner of a 20 person team, how the owner shows up, the whole team shows up. And the bigger that you grow, and I've experienced this myself, is the bigger that we've grown, the more important it is for leadership to just really be holding the standards and the core values and to be living in integrity. Because with every new role it just becomes harder to maintain that same level of potency and truth of what's really the intention behind leadership. So could you tell me, with running or being responsible for 3,000 nurses, how do you ensure that what's coming from the top is healthy, is good, and that it truly trickles down all the way to the new person coming in?

[Steph Meyer]

Yeah, so I love that question. It's. First of all, I work very hard to never forget what it's like to be them, right. So I was a nurse, nurse practitioner, my background. But if I needed to clean the floor, empty the trash, clean a stretcher, whatever that is, I've done that to make sure that our patients and our families are well cared for. So I work hard to make sure I understand. And don't forget what it's like to be them and their story throughout the day. And that seems simple. It takes a lot of scheduling and maneuvering for me to be visible. I think that's extremely important. And I know we all talk about it, but it is underrated how the effect of being visible roles like this have. And that means going out with no intention of seeing something specific. Right. And making sure that we talk to people and we know enough about them and their personal lives to have conversations. You've read all the literature, everybody listening, today's Reddit, but it really takes some intentional planning to make that happen. The bigger your company grows and the higher you go up in the company, for lack of a better word, you and I talked earlier, before we started. You always assume somebody else is managing that. They're not. It's your job to make sure you're managing it. And to your point, that's gotta start from the top down. So it's being visible. It's making sure my message is clear and that what I say in one venue is not different than what I say in another venue. So, for instance, I opened orientation this past week for the entire hospital. We had several hundred people there. And I talk in orientation, whether it's that, whether it's a nursing town hall, whether I'm going to talk with our physician groups or our other clinical leaders or our executive vice presidents about three things that I want everybody to do. I center all my messages around those three things every single time I'm talking about what our options are here and what we're trying to do. I need them to lead with love. I need them to be better tomorrow than they are today. And I need them. If they can help, they should. Those are three tangible things that people can do, and all of our core values and our strategy can fit into that easily. So whether you are the food service person that's providing nourishment for our kiddos on the floor, or you're me or you're somewhere in between, it's pretty easy to see how do I play into those three things. I think that makes messaging from the top down easier. Even if it's around some type of initiative we're doing or some type of culture work we're doing, or that we are supporting some local cause next week and we need everybody on board to show up here, constantly rooting in that same Message and drawing everybody to that commonality is helpful.

[Savannah Brewer]

Do you have a process for articulating and putting together those kind of core messages? Because I imagine when you're so busy and there's so many things going on and you're going like you, you were talking earlier about all the media that you've done at one point, and you're going from this to that to this to that. And there's so many people listening to the message, so many different types of questions that you're answering. How do you craft the communication? Do you sit down at the beginning of your day and think about what are the important messages? I'm communicating. Communicating today. Is there monthly planning for that and how do you. Yeah. What is your process for coming up with what you want to communicate?

[Steph Meyer]

Totally. That's a great question. So I do sit down monthly and look at what I've got through the entire month. But I plan a. I have a comms plan that goes a year long. And so I'm looking at. Right. And it adjusts. Right. Because things happen that we weren't planning or I need to put in another message, but I look at what I'm going to do for the entire year and then I nail it down by month and re. Look at it by month, making sure that my message is consistent, the three points that we talked about, and really that the. The feel of my message is consistent. That's important to me. When I first started working with the comms team years ago, as I got into leadership in a hospital, they would send me things like, hey, think about this. We'd like for you to look at being a part of this and saying something like this. And I'm going to be honest with you. I finally said I'm not. I'm not saying that. First of all, that's not me. And when I go out there, my first goal is to be intentional, authentic, and I want people to believe in what I'm saying because I believe in it. And that's the only way to get people around a common cause. No matter what your industry is. Right. They need to believe in you and believe in what you believe to be able to have these groups come together. So it's taken me some real work to work with a comms team around what is the feel of my message and how am I going to manage that across an entire year span or several months. But we look at what my, you know, my social media presence is. What I'm looking at in regards to internal presence, whether that's town Halls, email communication, anything that I might post or send out on an internal website, making sure that all of that has that consistent message. That's how I feel like you can really change and manage a team better, is making sure that that's thread through everything that you're saying and doing. Ironically. I got a text the other day and it was from one of my leaders and she's like, Stephanie, I was just in this seminar with one of our new hires and she pulled out those three things I mentioned earlier and she's like, it's working. And I was like, right, Tangible, easy to understand, makes everybody come around and cause a common cause and you believe in it.

[Savannah Brewer]

I would love to dig a little bit more on the importance of the feeling because there are a wide range of COOs. There is a COO like myself who I'm way more extroverted, people oriented. Like, my specialty is hiring people. Like, I'm not the girl that's going to be putting in automations and looking at numbers and spreadsheets, but I'm amazing at hiring talent and putting them in the right seat and giving them the support that they need. But then there's the COO who's kind of the opposite, where they're really good at the automations and the tech and the strategy of what's happening with the processes and yet they're responsible for leading people. And this is one of the things that I've Talked to some CEOs about where the breakdown in their culture and getting their team to do the things they want, like why aren't they doing the things that I want them to do? Well, what is the missing piece there and how you're showing up and inspiring them? So I'd love to hear why is it so important to come from a place of feeling and authenticity and emotion when you're leading people?

[Steph Meyer]

You know, my biggest, my biggest goal with that is people will work, they will die for you, they will run through fire for you. If you are, if you believe what if you have a common belief, right? And if you're showing up because you believe in the same things and they understand that, that and you're morally kind of moving in the same direction, they'll show up for that. It's always interesting to me when I work with people like, well, they're not doing what, what I'm wanting them to do and I'm like, do they even know why they're here? So talk about. And that seems simple, right? Let's talk about why are you here? What brings you to work every day. And do we have a commonality around why we're all showing up? Because there's going to be days everybody gets up and doesn't want to show up. So what's going to be the difference? Because especially in some industries, mine specifically, if they don't show up, that that affects a kiddo's care. Right. So it's not like that desk job can somebody else can do it tomorrow, that kiddo's still coming, that kid still needs surgery, that kid still needs an ED visit or an ambulatory visit. And so how do I make sure that that message and that belief that we all have. So for most, for me, for instance, I'm part of something bigger than myself every day. Doesn't matter what my job is here. When I walk out at the end of the day, I've been part of something bigger than myself. And that is extremely important to me to talk about that and weave that through those three points I said earlier. And so to your point, whether you're a COO that's running, hiring the people and doing the professional growth and development and looking at strategy around workforce, or you're the one that's doing it AI all of those things that you need as the other CEO to function, the reality is you're all still managing people that want to believe in the same thing. And so I think we lose that sometimes and we go in and think, oh, I'm going to say this and people should do it because they know why we're here. That has to constantly be re centered and as your company grows and strategy might change, how you look at that and alter that or you don't is important that it's talked about. Otherwise people are just coming to work for a job and not for you and the cause.

[Savannah Brewer]

So true.

[Steph Meyer]

Yeah.

[Savannah Brewer]

The belief around and not even the belief, but just like the understanding even from a leadership perspective of why your people are at work. It's. It's one of the things that I found to be the most helpful for really customizing my leadership for each person and giving them because what one person needs for me is very different than another. And if someone's there because they need a stable paycheck to pay for their kids to go to school versus someone's there is. It's a stepping stone and they want to grow and learn as much as possible.

[Steph Meyer]

Right.

[Savannah Brewer]

That person's gonna want more growth opportunity and they want you to give them new things and they're willing to fail and risk things a little bit more versus someone that's like, I just need to make sure that I do a really good job in this role. And I need some stability. And being able to understand what the people on your team really need is so important to being able to customize the leadership for them. What is a belief that you have found that when you've instilled it in your leadership that you know the leadership under you, who's leading the rest of the teams? What is one belief that you have found that you've given other leaders that you see has been like the most impactful in their leadership?

[Steph Meyer]

Yeah, everybody has a story.

[Cameron Herold]

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[Steph Meyer]

It sounds so simple, right? And everybody's like, what do you mean? Everybody has a story and you just touched on it. People come to work for a variety of reasons, right? And their risk tolerance is different for what they're doing based on why they're here. So the paycheck person's risk tolerance is a lot lower than the one who's actually here to grow and develop and do something else. So as you look at situational leadership, how are we growing people to adjust their style so that both employees needs are met? What I tell everybody is remember though, they each have a story. And the story that they have at home affects what they do here. The story of what they've experienced before affects how they show up at work. And they're continuing to build the story every day they come. And so I think it's an interesting concept and seems so simple, but we forget, right? Well, everybody comes to work. You need to come to do your job. This is why we're all here, right? What happened this morning at home that all of a sudden, they may be showing up differently today because nobody comes to work to host somebody else, despite what we all think. If you've hired the right people, 99.9% of people come to work to do a good job. Nobody wants to be on a B team, right? I'm like, how many of you want to be on a mediocre team? Everybody's like, not me, right? So we're trying to hire the A team, right? All of us trying to hire the best there are in the industry. Let's find the right conglomerate of people to make this happen. And so they all come to work to do a good job. And within their story, if it's that morning, if it's last week, if it's two years ago, affects the way they show up to work. So do you need to know every detail? No, but you need to remember you hired them. They 99.9 show up to do a good job. And the way that something is interacting, not happening, not being understood, has to do with most likely their individual story. The other thing I will tell you that I find fascinating about this in all of us as human behavior, right? We work to make all this happen every day, no matter what industry we're in. But we have a lot of things as we're moving from point A to point B that we don't understand. And our human behavior, we fill it in, right? It is human nature to fill in the details you don't know to make sense from A to B. Well, the reality is, we tend to fill in with negativity. It's just a human element, right? It's until you make a constant effort to assume positive intent and to assume people come to work to do a good job, when something goes wrong, your body and your mind is automatically telling you why they did what they did, and it's not possible. Positive. And so I tell everybody within that story, remember, you control some of the narrative because you're filling in details from A to B that shed light on what that person is or isn't. And your interaction with them is jaded by that. So think about if what you're telling yourself, is it really what you see, saw, heard, is it tangible, or is it the part you made up? Because the part you make up is how we react. You're not really reacting to what you saw most of the time or heard in a text or. Or heard somebody say you're reacting to that. Plus the piece that you filled in that you weren't sure of to establish why it Happened. Totally.

[Savannah Brewer]

There's a. I don't remember where I learned this. Some event or some personal development. Oh, oh, oh. I remember this was a Ascension leadership academy that I did. And the coach said everything that happens is neutral.

[Steph Meyer]

So true.

[Savannah Brewer]

Everything that happens is neutral. Someone getting hit by a car, someone graduating, someone having a birthday party, it's all neutral. And you're like, you look around and people, you know, your immediate reaction, especially if you've experienced some really traumatic things like how could that possibly be true? Well, if you remove the emotion from it and the humans like us as humans, like we have to have meaning attached to everything. And so if you remove our human nature and you just look at nature, you know, if a tree drops a leaf, you know, like the human, If a human like loses an arm, we, we would freak out. But if a tree loses a, a limb, just say, oh, that's nature. You know, this is just how things happen. It's neutral. But to us, we're creating this meaning to it. And so one of the things that just to kind of piggyback off of what you're saying is assumptions. And yeah, assumptions can be. So they can develop so many underlying toxic qualities. And a team, they're powerful in all.

[Steph Meyer]

The right ways or wrong ways.

[Savannah Brewer]

Exactly. And so, you know, this is one of the biggest things I learned when I first stepped into leadership was someone on my team. I cannot remember what they did, but they did something that pissed me off.

[Steph Meyer]

Yeah.

[Savannah Brewer]

And went into Slack and I was like, this is out of alignment with our system, blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever my response was. And then their response was, well, this is what XYZ told me to do. And I went to that person, like I did tell them to do that. And so I assumed that this person intentionally did this thing that I told them not to do. Where actually what happened was I made myself look like a fool because I didn't ask questions to really understand. And like you said, fill in the gaps, understand what is the true story here versus me making it up and then leading from a place that it does not even have all of the accurate data.

[Steph Meyer]

Well, and then you as the leader, like you said, look like the ass. Right. Because the reality is, is you don't have the whole story. So I really try to teach, myself included, go in and I. This is like candid text from hr, but it really is designed to work. But like help me understand that. Right. Like, because you really need an open ended question going back to what I said, most people come to work to do A good job. You know, one of my favorite stories, kind of like what you're saying too, is you'll have people show up to work. Now, of course, technology is everywhere, but we're supposed to be working. And are you? And you're on your phone all the time and we've got projects that need to happen or kids that need care, whatever it is. And so I'm here, I'll hear like, they're lazy, they're on the phone all the time. I know they're on Facebook or Instagram or, you know, whatever social media. And I'm like, so you saw it, you saw that, that they were, that's what they were? Well, no, but that's what, you know, they're doing. Story starts, right? And then all of a sudden I'm like, have you asked them? Hey, you okay? You seem distracted today. Because really what happened is they left their 8 year old at home by them because they need that job and paycheck so bad, they're worried that they shouldn't have done that. But they called in one more time and they lose their job. And then all of a sudden it's like, why didn't think about that, Right? Because we automatically go to the assumptions like you're saying that are negative and then affect the relationship. And what the, the reality of that is that I wish we talked about more is the relationship affects whoever your customer is. And that doesn't matter if it's healthcare or whatever industry it is. The relationship of the people inside your industry and your company affect your ability to be successful for the customer. And so we need to work on that more. Right? We need to talk about assumptions more. And they can be positive, but it takes a mental switch in your mind to say, that can't be the whole story. I need to understand it. There has to be more to it because I hired them, I hired them, we hire them. So let's figure out what the real story is and make sure that we're trying to come from a place of positive intent, assuming positive intent before you let your mind go there. But it actually takes in my mind a mental switch to do that.

[Savannah Brewer]

Yeah, if you're going to make an assumption, might as well assume the best positive.

[Steph Meyer]

Right? And then the way you go into the conversation also changes. Right? The way you go into the conversation, the way your body language is, you're not automatically teed off before you start, which they can feel, you know, and then it doesn't go well for anybody and you're ruminating about it. They're ruminating about it, and it's like, we could have changed that whole thing by just switching in our mind that we're going to go in to try to get the whole story.

[Cameron Herold]

If you haven't read my newest book, the Second in Command, go grab a copy right now on Amazon, and you'll learn how to unleash the power of a coo. And if you already are a coo, you'll learn how to really build an incredible partnership with your CEO.

[Savannah Brewer]

There's a memory that's coming back to me. If I had hired a new event coordinator at one point, and it was her first event, and she was really struggling, and all of a sudden, like, culturally felt very out of alignment with the rest of our team. And everyone's coming to me, hey, this person's doing this. This was doing this. And my, like, gut instinct is to get frustrated and, you know, go into the. The, like, heat of what I was experiencing and bring that in the conversation. And I remember, like, taking a step back, like, what. What else is here? And I just, like, really came from a place of deep care. And like you said, I hired this person for a reason. There is something there about this person that I saw as a sparkle. And, like, I know this person's going to be amazing. And when I sat down with her, and I really was like, look, you're not in trouble. I just want to understand and really see what's going on here. Because how I'm seeing you show up is very different than how I've seen you on meetings when we're not actually at the event.

[Steph Meyer]

Right.

[Savannah Brewer]

And she just started crying and telling me, like, at her old companies, this had happened, and this had happened, and she was having all this trauma response come up. And I've experienced this myself, and I know what that is like. And just having some grace and understanding from your team goes such a huge way. And from that point of that conversation, there was no performance improvement plan that I had to give her. There was no, like, you know, verbal spanking I had to give. It was, let me understand what's really happening here. And then she shifted from there because she just knew, I'm in a different. I'm in a safe place with people who care. And so I would love to immediately.

[Steph Meyer]

Establish trust with her, which changes the whole dynamic.

[Savannah Brewer]

There's a lot of trust that gets built. Yeah. And so for you with. And I imagine in the workplace that you're in, there's so much, you know, just emotional hardship that your team is Seeing every day, and that, that can wear on you. And then you've got your own problems in your own life. And so when your team goes in or when you go into these conversations and people are struggling outside of just a conversation, what do you do to ensure that people are supported and given the resources that they need to do the best that they can?

[Steph Meyer]

You know, I love that question because I think there's a multitude of things there that have to be considered no matter where you work. So again, you mentioned the first thing is the conversation, but the second thing is the constant contact, Right? So you have one conversation, they tell you what's going on, and then nobody checks in again. And that doesn't help them change, grow, whatever it is, support throughout the next steps. So I think it's important that there is a. I say constant, but it depends on what that means to the person. You've had the initial conversation and you've established a mechanism to continue to support them both verbally, mentally, physically, whatever that is. And that's going to depend on what their needs are. So it starts with that first conversation, and then the conversation has to continue. And that's, I think the key piece is making sure that you have, whether it's scheduled or periodic touch points to see how things are going based on what they said. And that takes intentional planning on your part and time spent. I want to go back to something you said just around, you know, you hired them like, like you and I both agreed to. I really believe that 50% of people's success, at least in the first year or two, you own. And I think we forget that, right? You hire me, you're like, okay, well, I hired them, I'm going to give them these tools. But now it's on them to perform. Not really. It's on both of you. It's on them to perform, but it's on you to provide an environment where they can perform because you hired them. Right. And so making sure that you own that together then gets you to the step you're talking about, making sure that you understand, where are they coming from? What are the struggles they have? If you see them not showing up like, like the girl you said in the beginning. I also think that we're going to be forced as companies and, and we've done a decent job of this here, trying to figure out what wellness in the workplace means and how do you support that? Because people come to work, do hard things at work, but come from all of these complex backgrounds, if you will. And so some of that is going to get brought into the environment. And of course there's complexity theory and all of that that we could talk about forever. But we have decided to establish a center for well being. And it sounds like, oh yeah, I mean, what's that mean? But it really has been extremely beneficial. They are a non judgmental party. It's made up of a moral multitude of different disciplines for us that we've decided to invest in that and it gives our staff an out to have somebody else to go talk to who they don't work for or work with. Right. And it's here on campus. It's been a great investment for us in regards to turnover, having sustainability of people being able to do really hard things here. I mean, we take care of kids that aren't going to make it. We take care of families who aren't great to their kids, you know, so how do we do that? And support staff that are, to your point, doing hard things. And that can be from sessions that they can have individually. We offer group type of, I say therapy, but it's more of a session around, hey, let's talk about what went well, what didn't go well today with a facilitator who's not your boss or somebody who works on your unit. And none of that goes back to them. It's a, a space that you can express yourself how you're feeling, get support from people who actually are in the industry and in what you're in. You know, we all go home and I don't know about you, but I mean, my family's great. The reality is they do not understand what I do every day and I shouldn't expect them to. And so their ability to support me on a difficult day, if we've had deaths we didn't want or things that have happened at work that, that aren't great is different than what I can get from our group that we put together as a wellness division to support, support a multitude of different staff and that's, that's important for us.

[Savannah Brewer]

I have multiple things that I could say off topic. One thing I'll say is the COO alliance that Cameron put together, I mean, is a great example of that because like I told you, I was a salesperson. I did not think I would ever end up in a CEO position. And then when I did, I was like, what the hell do I do? I have no one to ask questions to. I didn't have anyone around me that had been in that role.

[Steph Meyer]

And there's one of you usually Right. There's one.

[Savannah Brewer]

There's one of me. And, you know, especially when I'm struggling, I can go to the owner of the company. And I had an amazing relationship with. With him, and talking about one of the core companies that I was with when I first became CEO, had an amazing relationship with him. And there are some things that, like, you just can't bring to the owner of the company. Like, I'm struggling with it, and I'm like, if I. It's like it's in a relationship. If. If you're in a relationship and all of a sudden you're not feeling attracted to your partner, the moment you tell your partner, hey, I'm not really attracted to you anymore, you have opened up a million floodgates, and you may not be able to come back from it.

[Steph Meyer]

And they're going to the negative. Right. So to get back from the negative is rough.

[Savannah Brewer]

It's rough. And so there's a need for CEOs or just really anybody who is in a role that's unique or, I mean, you could be in a role that everybody's in the same role and you still want to have outside perspective or someone, like you said, who's in that position but not connected to your team, that is just a safe space to go to. And so for anyone that's listening, that's a coo, and you're listening to this podcast because you're trying to find other information, connect with other people, and you're not in the CEO alliance. I highly recommend it. Shameless Plug here. It is so incredible to be surrounded by people who get it and know what you're going through. And the second thing that I wanted to tag off of that is my curiosity around how you were able to measure the success of that initiative, because I imagine that that's a very expensive, you know, thing to roll out where you're paying for people's wellness and therapy, in a sense. And I've tried bringing this to companies before where I was like, I have team members coming to me asking me questions that I do not feel like I am qualified or nor is my job to really support them in, but what do I do? They don't have the money or the resources to go hire a therapist. And trying to get leadership to move forward with initiatives like that when P and L might already be tight. And it's like, how do you track that that's actually going to give an roi? Were you guys able to measure any results from that?

[Steph Meyer]

Yeah. So, yes, I would tell you that we Do. And it depends too. I've got a really supportive executive team, let me say that. But it depends too on how you define an roi. Right. So for me, I'm looking at do they feel supported, do they stay, intent to stay, and some things like that. So specifically we measure intent to stay. We measure how many people have used their services. Then we have a, and this is done, of course, via survey. We have a safety survey that talks about how many people have used our wellness group. But we also have what we call pulse surveys. They go out to a third of our company every quarter. And we talk about, have you used the services, did you feel like they helped you, was it worth it? And we collect data like that. Seems like it's a little bit soft data. But then when you go and ask questions around intent to stay usage of the, of the program, and then look specifically at what pieces of the program they utilized and asking them directly, did that affect your intent to stay? Yes or no? It's a pretty good measurement, right? And so then we of course take that and look at turnover percentages and what it costs to replace an employee and you can establish financials around that. But we have found that it has been extremely helpful. You know, we all have, are in an environment now where mental and behavioral health and that type of thing is a huge topic no matter what industry you're in. And so trying to help employees and staff show up in a positive way, especially if you're in a service oriented industry, while managing some of those more mental or behavioral health type of, of complexities is important. That's also something this, this team does specifically, I will say healthcare is really looking at, not to be a downer, but our suicide rates and clinicians. Right. And so to your point, when we look at how many times have they taken a call from somebody that wasn't feeling great or had suicidal thoughts and we could get them to our therapist or get them to somebody who can actually give them direct help. That's a big ROI for us.

[Savannah Brewer]

I could totally see that being huge.

[Steph Meyer]

It is. I have to do something real quick though. When you commented on the other coos, I would, I really do want to say this is an amazing opportunity. What you guys do here, the ability to interact with other COOs across the nation and really globally, wherever that do other things. That's what I crave as a COO, is I love talking to CEOs in healthcare, but I really, really want to talk to ones that are in other industries and companies and figure out what are you doing? Because it absolutely is applicable to my industry. I just need to have the convo and there's not a lot of platforms that you can do that. So I appreciate it.

[Savannah Brewer]

Yeah. Well, if you want to talk about it afterwards.

[Steph Meyer]

Yeah, love it.

[Savannah Brewer]

I'm happy to talk about it. Yeah, it was amazing for me. I did two years, I did two events and yeah, just absolutely amazing. I'm still really good friends with people and the support. Support. I mean, I. There was one thing in the first month that I. I learned with group interviews. I don't know if you guys do group interviews when you're hiring, but yeah. Yeah. I had never heard of this concept and Cameron taught it. That one video completely changed because I ran a recruiting company, completely changed the way that we did recruiting internally and then taught our clients. And literally like 5,000 plus people have now been placed as a result of being able to really change. You know, it was the monumental shift for us, like learning that one thing. And I learned that from another CEO who made a bunch of, you know, how to try a bunch of different things that I didn't have to try. And I just got to take away the gold nugget. But, yeah, thanks for saying that. And to kind of shift a little bit to talking about you specifically, because, you know, we're talking a lot about supporting team and how to take care of the people under us, but as being in the position that you're in and you're telling me that you've got your own, you know, you got your own family and kiddos and other responsibilities, but you've got a lot on your plate. How do you take care of yourself? Stay grounded in times like you were telling me about what happened a couple years ago, the crisis situations. What do you do to make sure that you're showing up to work, grounded and with a full cup to pour back into your team?

[Steph Meyer]

Yeah. First of all, and everybody's going to say, yeah, I know sleep is underrated, you know, so we really need to do a better job of taking care of ourselves. And we all know it. But intentionally, I make a pretty hard effort to read before I go to bed and to try to. To be in bed at a decent time. It sounds like. Oh, yeah, everybody says it. We don't do it very often, though. And I can tell you, I can feel myself start to respond differently, be a little bit more edgy, a little bit more fussy when I don't make sure that I've intentionally planned that out. You know, the other thing that I Think is important. And I think all of us would tell you we have vacation. We never take. I've got to get better about that. In fact, I just had a conversation this morning about I've got to go through and look at taking time off to rejuvenate myself, because the constant need to make a decision as a CEO, no matter what company you're in, they're flying constantly. So even when you're not here, you're making decisions and you're getting phone calls or you're thinking about strategy, like, that never turns off. And so I really am trying to get better and have found myself that when I schedule time and people are like, well, could you do this? I used to say, yes, yeah, yeah, I'll just shorten it by a day. I'm really trying to set harder boundaries, and that's hard for all of us to do. But when I do that, I really do show up better. I show up better at work, and so that's important to me to do that as well. And then, you know, girl, anything around, spending time with. With friends and exercise, of course, just for me, is walking. Got my weighted vest, you know, doing. Doing the thing. Giving my head time to. To think and giving myself time to breathe is. Is important in making sure I show up. The hardest part of that is saying no. And there are times that I'm not good at it. I do think in these jobs, if you have somebody that can support you, helping you say no, that's key. So, for instance, for me, I have some administrative support that will come in and be like, hey, they needed you to do this, this, and this. I told them no, the final two. And it takes that away from you feel like, oh, God, like, I really want to do it. And so he and I have aligned on what feeds my cup. What are the priorities for my role? What are the priorities for my team? And if it doesn't fit into that, I need to be able to say no. And I don't think we're good at it.

[Savannah Brewer]

I totally agree. My roommate in my house that I just moved into, we actually created core values. Yes. For our home. And he actually had a company that. It's called Wellness Daddy. He has. He just had a hundred thousand subscribers on YouTube and he had a sleep course. So I just want to, like, double click on sleep and.

[Steph Meyer]

Yes.

[Savannah Brewer]

Mold and Lyme disease. Like four or five years, I was very, very, very sick. And sleep is 100. The biggest. The biggest thing that I could say, if there's one thing that you Focus on if you're struggling with anything, it's like your diet and it's sleep.

[Steph Meyer]

Yep.

[Savannah Brewer]

But anyways, back to our core values. One of our core values is around being energy rich. And the things that creates richness in your energy is by getting rid of the gray, you are sucked dry of energy. When you are saying yes to things that in your body, you're coming from a place like, I feel like I should do this, or like, I don't want them to think of me, that I don't care. And it's all this like we're shitting.

[Steph Meyer]

All over ourselves, but you're doing it like nobody else is doing that to you. Like nobody else is doing that. And you're like, oh, God.

[Savannah Brewer]

And people respect when it says no or yes. They trust your yeses and your nose more deeply because they know that you're only saying yes if you really want to be there.

[Steph Meyer]

Yeah.

[Savannah Brewer]

So I would love to just kind of close this out because I know we've got a few minutes left here. I'd like to ask people, what is the thing that you're most excited about? And this is perfect timing because we're just going into June, the next half of the year. What are you most excited about, both personally and professionally?

[Steph Meyer]

Right. So I'm most excited professionally about where we're going to be able to take healthcare and children's mercy. There's a piece of it that's scary around AI, but there's a piece of it that is absolutely phenomenally going to be helpful. And I think our industry, specifically, it's going to be like, who. Who can get it the right one. Right. Like the right platform? How are you using it to help patients and families, but how are you using it to help everything we've talked about today? How are you putting it in to help you operationally, but how are you also putting it in to help you strategically manage companies? And I think there's all of these things that are coming out and us trying to watch, you know, what is, what's the a product versus where the development is on the other products. And trying to figure that out is uber exciting. And to be part of that at this point in healthcare, I think is going to be absolutely transformative for what we can do and how we do it for people. And that's extremely exciting. You know, personally, I'm excited. I've got a kiddo in college, one that's a junior in high school. I am very excited that I'm getting them to a place of adulthood and maybe I've done my job right and continue to interact with them in a way that parenting but now we can do fun things too and, and finding that balance. Personally, I really make sure that I'm trying to engage with them in a different way now that they're older and I love that they want to spend time with me again. Sounds, sounds kind of trite and silly, but there's a lot of people that don't want to be with their parents and that my kids still do, I think is as a win so that their friends all come and we'll take them wherever and do the thing is, is exciting. But you know, personally too, getting to that stage of my life where I can help other people be better in the industry and you know, over my, I'm in the last half, you know, really part of my career and, and being able to hand off to the next person who should be better and if I've done my job, they'll be better than I am. You know, I always tell somebody that everybody there's somebody who's prettier, faster and makes more money and I'll die chasing her. And so. Right. And so that's what I'm excited about. Like I'm going to get it, get it going and when I hand off and give the baton, I hope that person's ahead.

[Savannah Brewer]

Oh, that's beautiful.

[Steph Meyer]

Yeah.

[Savannah Brewer]

This has been absolutely amazing. One of our favorite episodes so far. So thank you so, so, so much for your time. Really appreciate it. Oh my God.

[Steph Meyer]

Thanks for having me. It's been great.

[Savannah Brewer]

Absolutely. Best wishes.

[Steph Meyer]

You too. Bye.

[Cameron Herold]

You've been listening to Second in Command, brought to you by COO alliance founder Cameron Herold. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to, like, share and subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and our other podcast streaming platforms. For more best practices from industry leading COOs, visit COOAlliance.com.

[Savannah Brewer]

SA.