Podcast Summary: Second in Command with Cameron Herold Episode 530: Steven Huang – Why Leaders Everywhere Are Turning to Psychedelics Now Original Air Date: November 25, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Cameron Herold sits down with Steven Huang, Director of Finance, People, IT, and Community at MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) and the organization’s “second in command.” Together, they explore the rapid evolution of public and governmental attitudes around psychedelics, the science and policy work behind making psychedelics safe and accessible, and how psychedelic experiences are shaping leadership, growth, and company culture. The episode blends personal stories with a nuanced look at how MAPS balances advocacy, science, and organizational challenges in a movement experiencing massive societal and legislative change.

Main Discussion Points

1. Setting the Stage: Psychedelics in Business and Society

• MAPS Primer:
  Steven introduces MAPS as a nonprofit at the forefront of psychedelic research, policy change, and public education, working for 40 years to change culture and legislation around psychedelics.

  "MAPS has really led the psychedelic movement with evidence-based approaches to changing policies, advancing research, shaping the culture around psychedelics." (03:50 – Steven Huang)

• Inflection Point for Public Dialogue:
  The hosts note how the legalization of cannabis about a decade ago paved the way for more open mainstream discussions about psychedelics, especially in business communities.

  "It felt like that was the time when it was okay to talk about psychedelics... now if I go to any business event... somebody is there talking about psychedelic therapy." (05:54 – Cameron Herold)

2. Legislation, Medicalization, and Policy Progress

• Why Now?
  Steven recounts the changing climate from professional risk ("career suicide" to talk about psychedelics on LinkedIn) to mainstream acceptance, even featuring major CEOs discussing their personal use publicly.

  "Just last year... Sam Altman was on a podcast... And he just spoke openly about psychedelics. And... I don't think anyone really cared to write about it or was particularly surprised." (07:04 – Steven Huang)

• Regulatory Landscape:
  Discussion covers the unique pathways for legal status—ketamine’s accepted “off-label” use, psilocybin’s movement through state-level progress, and how MAPS approaches science and policy simultaneously, in contrast to cannabis legalization.

  "There’s parallels, but there’s also really interesting differences." (10:44 – Steven Huang)

• Governmental Engagement:
  Steven is “optimistic” about increased governmental openness, referencing bipartisan participation at MAPS’ conferences, and tracking positive but cautious policy momentum.

  "At our conference... Governor Polis of Colorado, [and] ex-Governor Rick Perry also spoke... There are other government officials... things are moving in the right direction." (12:00 – Steven Huang)

3. MAPS Organization: Funding, Focus, and Spin-Offs

• Funding Model:
  Predominantly fueled by donations and philanthropy—conferences are seen more as ecosystem investments than revenue drivers.

  "Our major gifts... as a nonprofit, our disclosures are all online... The conferences... are investments... They are not money drivers for us." (13:38 – Steven Huang)

• Core Projects:
  While MAPS’ most prominent clinical work is MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD, Steven details how MAPS has spun off its drug development efforts while focusing on advocacy, education, and reform.

  "MDMA is our core. We seeded our own Public Benefit Corp... now it's really a separate organization... But that's really the only clinical drug development we do now." (14:36 – Steven Huang)

4. Real-World Use, Impact, and Caution

• Personal and Professional Growth:
  Cameron and Steven discuss how psychedelic therapy is showing benefits for severe mental health issues and personal development, but Steven emphasizes clinical trial populations have limitations and real-world use is broader and less controlled.

  "99% of people use psychedelics outside of that medical clinical context and they’re using it for personal growth, professional leadership development, all sorts of ways." (19:51 – Steven Huang)

• Cautions and Risks:
  Both highlight the need for intentional use, the dangers of blanket legalization or decriminalization, and the importance of research, supervised settings, and understanding substance-specific risk profiles.

  "Each one needs to be understood and approached with its own reverence... There’s a lot of information online... A lot of excitement around psychedelics, as there should be. But there also needs to be an appropriate amount of understanding the risks and approaching with care." (23:50 – Steven Huang)

5. Psychedelics and Leadership

• Career Shifts Driven by Psychedelics:
  Steven tells his story of leaving actuarial work after a transformative LSD experience and continuing to let psychedelics guide his career—ultimately leading him to diversity/inclusion work and MAPS itself.

  "Maybe I can use the same mathematical principles to build models that predict attrition. And I pitched that to Facebook... and they’re like, that’s crazy. You’re hired... psychedelics have always played a huge part in my career..." (25:38 – Steven Huang)

• Leadership Development:
  Psychedelic experiences, Steven argues, can build intentionality, creativity, inclusion, and resilience in leaders, with MDMA being particularly effective for self-discovery and personal challenge.

  "Depending on what your challenge or roadblock is to living a meaningful and authentic life... there could be a psychedelic that can really help you embrace a challenge or be resilient in the face of adversity." (27:05 – Steven Huang)

• Notable Quote:

  “A lot of my healing comes on the dance floor.” (25:17 – Steven Huang)

6. Organizational Culture & Coping with Setbacks

• Culture at MAPS:
  Steven describes the culture as “compassionate and disruptive” rather than high-performance, with transparency around not being driven by quarterly targets and a focus on the long haul.

  "We don't often fire people for performance. We are in this for the long haul... Let's all stop lying to each other. We have a compassionate culture. We have a disruptive culture." (31:08 – Steven Huang)

• Navigating Setbacks:
  The team recounts the disappointment when the FDA did not approve the new drug application for MDMA-assisted therapy, how MAPS responded with transparency, layoffs, and a heavy reliance on mission-driven resilience.

  “By Monday, we had to announce layoffs. I was an individual contributor on the people team before that day, and our finance team was gone... and I became a reluctant COO overnight.” (34:14 – Steven Huang)
  "There was a common understanding of, like, this was always a possibility that this could happen. And it doesn’t change the fact that people are using psychedelics to achieve growth and healing every day." (35:54 – Steven Huang)

• Working with Visionary Leaders:
  Steven reflects on working with Rick Doblin, balancing a rule-breaking visionary founder with his own role ensuring compliance, and how healthy organizational tension helps drive progress.

  “All of his success is built through disruption and part of my job is to keep the company compliant. His job is to break all the rules. It’s a healthy tension.” (38:16 – Steven Huang)

7. Advice to Aspiring Leaders

• Steven’s Parting Wisdom:

  "Believe in yourself. I have been put into so many situations in my career where I didn't know what the hell I was doing... But people can tell your organization... whether or not you believe in yourself. And if you show up vulnerably, not inauthentic, but authentically confident, you’ll go far." (40:02 – Steven Huang)

Notable Moments with Timestamps

• Introduction and MAPS Overview (03:50 – 04:32): What MAPS is, its history, and mission.
• Cultural Inflection Point Around 2014–2015 (05:19 – 07:44): How business communities started discussing psychedelics.
• Mainstreaming and CEO Advocacy (07:04 – 07:44): Professional risks vs. prominent leaders’ openness.
• Ketamine vs. Other Psychedelics—Legal Loopholes (10:08 – 11:06)
• Government Engagement and Conference Insights (12:00 – 13:21)
• Funding and Conference Economics (13:38 – 14:13)
• MAPS’ Evolving Focus and Spin-off Companies (14:36 – 15:27)
• Boutique Mushroom Dispensaries and Legal Gray Zones (16:08 – 18:00)
• Case Study: Personal Growth and Mental Health (19:51 – 23:50): Leadership, healing, and experimental cautions.
• Steven’s Psychedelic-influenced Career Move (25:28 – 27:05)
• Culture at MAPS vs. High-Performance Startups (31:08 – 32:56)
• Responding to Major FDA Setback and Organizational Change (34:14 – 35:54)
• Advice to Younger Leaders (40:02)

Memorable Quotes

• “All of his success is built through disruption and part of my job is to keep the company compliant. His job is to break all the rules.”
  — Steven Huang (38:16)

• “Believe in yourself... If you show up vulnerably, not inauthentic, but authentically confident, you’ll go far.”
  — Steven Huang (40:02)

• “We have a compassionate culture. We have a disruptive culture. No, we don’t often fire people for performance. We are in this for the long haul.”
  — Steven Huang (31:08)

• “There’s a lot of excitement around psychedelics, as there should be. But there also needs to be an appropriate amount of understanding the risks and approaching with care.”
  — Steven Huang (23:50)

Final Takeaways

This episode is a candid, informed look at the second-in-command perspective in a revolutionary social and medical movement. Steven Huang shares both the promise and complexity behind the psychedelic renaissance—balancing bold vision, culture change, policy, and organizational turbulence with personal growth and resilience. The conversation highlights the power of authenticity, adaptability, and self-belief for modern leaders and organizations exploring new frontiers.