Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: Second in Command: The Chief Behind the Chief with Cameron Herold
Host: Savannah Brewer (guest hosting for Cameron Herold)
Guest: Matt Rhodes, COO of The Phoenix Method
Episode: Ep. 540 - The Proven Mindset That Every Thriving COO Now Loves
Date: December 30, 2025

This episode features Matt Rhodes, COO of The Phoenix Method and co-founder of Polaris Capital Investments. Matt shares the highs and lows of his journey from running successful fitness businesses with his wife to hitting rock bottom—both in business and marriage—and how they rose from the ashes to thrive again. The discussion centers on mindset shifts, rebuilding culture, leadership lessons, and the vital influence of mentorship and networking for those in the "second in command" role.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Phoenix Method: From Collapse to Transformation

• Origin Story:
  Matt describes how he and his wife Jen built up a successful chain of gyms and yoga studios but became overstretched as they scaled (03:19). The pressures culminated during the COVID-19 pandemic, which both strained their businesses and marriage, ultimately leading them to strip everything back—a period Matt describes as "burning everything to the ground" so they could start anew.
• "We realized that we lost all that culture in our gyms... and I didn't even want to go work out in there, let alone be around the people." (Matt, 03:41)
• They rebuilt by focusing on personal growth, hiring for culture over sales performance, and launching The Phoenix Method as an online platform (04:08–05:19).

2. Mindset Shifts that Fueled Recovery

• From Perfectionism to Progress:
  Matt's mentor encouraged him to embrace imperfection and iteration:
  "Your job is to build systems and go hard and go heavy and break them, let them break. You can never grow, you can never scale being perfect." (Matt, 00:00 & 15:25)
• Ownership:
  A key insight was shifting from blaming external circumstances to taking full responsibility for outcomes both in business and relationships:
  "Anytime I need to fix anything or change anything, it starts with me every single time." (Matt, 30:57)
• Coaching & Mentorship:
  He overcame reluctance to hiring coaches, now viewing them as essential investments rather than costs:
  "They can save me decades in days. They will point out all my blind spots." (Matt, 24:44–25:44)

3. Rebuilding Culture: Hiring & Leading for the Long-Term

• Hiring for Culture Over Sales:
  They shifted from prioritizing sales talent to hiring people who care about customer service and team well-being:
  "We will always choose the person who's better at customer service than they are at sales..." (Matt, 07:29)
• Regular Check-Ins:
  Instituted frequent meetings and personal check-ins with staff, focusing not just on results but on employee well-being:
  "When we started working so much in these other businesses, we weren't checking on our people, we weren't asking how they were doing..." (Matt, 08:13)

4. Delegation and Leadership Evolution

• Learning to Let Go:
  Matt discusses the difficulty and eventual benefits of transitioning his trusted employee to GM:
  "It's tough to let go... She's not going to do it the way I would do it. She's going to do it her way... but it doesn't mean it's not going to get done, or not even be done better than me." (Matt, 10:36)
• Growth Through Delegation:
  Letting go allowed personal and professional growth for both Matt and Jen:
  "You're able to grow personally and professionally because you're not bogged down..." (Matt, 12:00–12:51)

5. COO-CEO Dynamic (in Work and Marriage)

• Role Clarity:
  Early confusion about roles gave way to realization that Jen was the natural CEO (vision, culture), while Matt thrived as COO (operations, systems):
  "I was not the CEO... She dreams it up and says, 'This is what we're going to do.' Where I would sit back and say, 'Okay, how are we going to do that?'" (Matt, 19:18)
• Work-Life Balance:
  They prioritize open communication and boundaries to maintain both business and marital health:
  "Where it is tough is where do you turn it off? We do dinner together every single night... But it's tough." (Matt, 21:09)

6. Transparency and Metrics

• Open Book Management:
  Managers see the full P&L weekly. This visibility drives alignment and accountability even for those not compensated by profit:
  "When our leadership team see everything, they know what the goal is... They put in the extra effort because they feel like they're a part of that." (Matt, 16:36–18:34)

7. Importance of Environment & Peer Networks

• Surrounding Yourself with the Right People:
  Mentorship and mastermind groups, especially those in entrepreneurial hotspots like Scottsdale, elevate ambition and reduce loneliness:
  "Every time I go to Scottsdale, I make more money... We get into rooms with like-minded people. We realize there's many things we get from that. We get ideas but also we see what they're capable of." (Matt, 32:49–33:03)
• Staying in growth environments ensures continual learning and pushing the bar higher.

8. Lessons for COOs and Entrepreneurs

• Responsibility & Execution:
  Invest in coaching, surround yourself with ambitious peers, and focus on building robust systems rather than relying on individual heroics.
• Raising Standards:
  "If you want to live a great life, you gotta raise [your expectations]... and you need to raise the expectations of all the people around you." (Matt, 37:24)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "Your job is to build systems and go hard and go heavy and break them, let them break. You can never grow, you can never scale being perfect."
  Matt, 00:00 & 15:25

• "We realized that we lost all that culture in our gyms... and I didn't even want to go work out in there, let alone be around the people."
  Matt, 03:41

• "We will always choose the person who's better at customer service than they are at sales because that's what led to our bad culture..."
  Matt, 07:29

• "It's tough to let go... but it doesn't mean it's not going to get done, or not even be done better than me."
  Matt, 10:36

• "Anytime I need to fix anything or change anything, it starts with me every single time."
  Matt, 30:57

• "Every time I go to Scottsdale, I make more money."
  Matt, 32:56

• "If you want to live a great life, you gotta raise [your expectations]... and you need to raise the expectations of all the people around you."
  Matt, 37:24

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Background: 00:00–03:16
• Turning Point & Cultural Rebirth: 03:19–05:24
• Mindset Shifts & The Importance of Systems: 05:25–08:29
• Delegation, Letting Go, and Leadership: 10:29–12:51
• COO/CEO (Work/Marriage) Relationship: 18:34–21:19
• Metrics & Open Book Management: 16:30–18:34
• Hiring Coaches & Mindset Transformation: 24:33–28:53
• Power of Environment and Networking: 32:49–34:29
• Raising Expectations: 37:08–38:28
• Closing: What’s Next and Where to Connect: 38:36–40:21

Memorable Moments

• Savannah shares how a simple check-in from a leader deeply impacted her loyalty and morale. (08:29)
• Discussion of hiring for “energy” and capability rather than just for skills; fresh perspectives brought dramatic operational changes to their business. (12:51)
• Both discuss imposter syndrome and the value of COO Alliance for growth and peer support. (34:29)
• A key lesson: If you’re the best in the room, find a new room. (36:32)

Takeaways

• Embrace Imperfection: Move quickly, break things, then iterate.
• Prioritize People: Hire and lead for culture, not just skills.
• Invest in Yourself: Coaching and surrounding yourself with achievers accelerates growth and resilience.
• Be Accountable: Start with yourself for any change you want to see—in business or relationships.
• Transparency Builds Ownership: Open-book management drives engagement and clarity.
• Growth Demands Letting Go: Delegation is vital for both personal and organizational scale.
• Continually Raise Standards: For yourself and those around you—for a fulfilling and exceptional life.

Connect with Matt Rhodes:
Instagram & Facebook: @MattRhodes
Website: forestcapitalinvestments.com

For more best practices from top COOs, visit: COOAlliance.com