← Second in Command: The Chief Behind the Chief with Cameron Herold
Second in Command: The Chief Behind the Chief with Cameron Herold
Ep. 557 - ACP COO Richard Comitz - How to Lead By Example in the Nonprofit World
00:45:06
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- [00:00]
A
Of the most important things you do is lead by example, right? So I know what their job is. I know how to do their job. I know what it takes to do their job. And so I also can call BS if you will. If, if they, they want to try to tell me that, you know, they don't have time or they can't. Right. I can, I can, you know, work through that mentally with them and, and help them come to the right conclusion. But I think being able, you know, they, if I, and working with someone and they literally, I can tell they don't have time to do something, I'm like, well, I'll just do it right? Or I'll take that from you for this moment.
- [00:40]
B
Welcome to the Second in Command podcast produced by the COO alliance and brought to you by its founder, Cameron Herold. In the second in command podcast, we talk to top COOs who share the insights, strategies and tactics that made them the chief behind the chief. And now here's your co host, former COO of a multi eight figure remote company and alumni member of the COO Alliance, Savannah Brewer. Our guest today is American Corporate Partners Chief Operating Officer Richard Komitz. Richard is a retired army lieutenant colonel who brings decades of leadership experience from commanding units in Iraq to teaching organic chemistry at West Point, to his role at acp. At acp, he oversees corporate relations, outreach and communications, helping thousands of veterans, transitioning service members and their spouses prepare for meaningful civilian careers. In our conversation, Richard shares how the discipline and leadership skills he gained in the military continue to shape the way he leads himself and his teams, why he's passionate about investing in the next generation of leaders, and how he builds a strong partnership with a fast paced, founder driven CEO. This episode offers a powerful look at leadership that blends service, mentorship and adaptability. Let's dive in. We are live with Richard. Welcome to the Second in Command podcast.
- [02:09]
A
Thanks for having me.
- [02:10]
B
Absolutely. Well, let's go ahead and just give the audience a little bit of a rundown here. Tell us about acp. What do you do and who do you serve?
- [02:19]
A
Well, I'm the Chief Operating Officer here at ACP stands for American Corporate Partners. We're a nonprofit that helps transitioning service members and active duty spouses prepare for their next career. And we do that through mentorship. So we have relationships with a lot of companies and they have volunteer mentors that we link up with veterans to help them through their transition.
- [02:44]
B
Awesome. Could you tell us a little bit about the overarching size of the organization? How many People, are you serving? Give us a little bit of a rundown on kind of the data of the stats.
- [02:55]
A
Sure. We have about 80 staff members, and the majority of those people are doing the operations associate role, which is kind of a case manager, if you will, managing the relationship between the mentor and the protege, which is what we call the veteran and spouses. And so they're kind of onboarding them, checking in with them, giving them resources, and following through their mentorship. So we have at any given time over 5,000 active mentorships going and every day people are kind of finishing and rejoining or joining the mentorship program. So last year we had about 20,000 people apply for the program. And so again, people are always rolling in and rolling off. So there's a lot more people that are transitioning out of the military that we can get a handle on, but it's a pretty good chunk of people that we're helping.
- [03:47]
B
That's amazing. Thank you for the work that you're doing. You also have. I tend to not go super deep into people's past experience on the podcast and just kind of focus in on the current work that they're doing. However, from your bio I read, I think there's a lot of really unique, interesting experience that you likely have. And would you give us a bit of an idea on your journey? What did you do before acp?
- [04:12]
A
Yeah, so, I mean, I think it's, it is important to talk about this in the CEO podcast here because of the fact that CEOs get asked to do a lot of different things. Right. And so I was in the army for 23 years. So during that time, you're, you're transitioning to different jobs, you know, of increasing responsibility, leading different size groups of people. Also throughout that time, I was able to get both the Master's and PhD. So I ended up teaching at West Point at the end of my career. After I retired from the Army, I went into higher ed for a few years and quickly went from helping out in an administrative role to becoming kind of the Chief operating Officer's right hand person, if you will. And the President's kind of always working on all the different projects, needing to get done, making sure wherever the problems were, I was there, know, put on those projects to help get them, you know, across the finish line. And then I joined ACP about four years ago. And you know, the job I applied for was that was basically to help manage the organization at a senior level.
- [05:23]
B
What was it about ACP that attracted you and wanted you? Yeah, what Inspired you to apply?
- [05:29]
A
Yeah. So, I mean, honestly, when I was in higher ed, I kind of moved up really fast because of different circumstances and continue to take on more and more roles without, you know, as I got promoted, I just got more jobs, and that happened pretty fast. And I found myself doing a heck of a lot of stuff, not getting paid as much as some of the people I was telling what to do and. And just thought, you know, maybe part of the problem was a lot of people didn't know what to do with my military career as far as where that fit into my level of experience. And so I think after I had established myself kind of in the civilian world, if you will, doing the job, that I could continue to look and see if I can do this at a larger scale. I also had this kind of desire to continue to serve in some way, tried to volunteer at the va, and then Covid happened. So I didn't really have much opportunity to do that. But, like, what attracts me to ACP is being able to kind of help my people, if you will. And again, I think not only helps people that I know and my community, but it also kind of helps bridge that gap between the civilian and military population to show the value of them in the workforce.
- [06:51]
B
What was it about you that you think had them pick you as the right fit?
- [06:57]
A
You know, I'm not sure. I mean, I think there's a series of things that were helpful. One, my experience and background being in the military. Then also, just as I went through the interview process, the questions always led me to be able to talk about things I've done and how I did it, both in the military and in the civilian world in higher ed. And I think that showed the kind of the versatility and the ability to, you know, get things done, solve problems, which I think was very helpful.
- [07:30]
B
When they hired you and you came on, what were the first 90 days like, stepping in? I mean, with 80 people, all the work you guys are doing, I'm sure there was a lot to learn. And it sounds like from what you were telling me before we jumped on here, you have a very wide range of responsibilities. What was that initial entrance into the company? What did you do to learn? What types of things were you working on in the early part of that?
- [07:58]
A
Yeah, so in the beginning, I wasn't hired as a coo. I was a senior vice president. We had someone that was acting as the executive director at the time. She had three small kids and was looking for a way to step back a little bit. So my Initial work was to kind of understand the organization and be able to speak on our behalf, work with a lot of our corporate partners and establish those relationships. And then as time went on, I started understanding, you know, they, I guess, you know, proved to be competent enough to start talking to the executive director about her role and what she was doing. And, and once I understood that, I kind of absorbed her job and she was able to move to a different role.
- [08:45]
B
Nice. When was that transition?
- [08:49]
A
That was about six months into my job here.
- [08:51]
B
Oh, quickly.
- [08:52]
A
Yeah, it was pretty quick.
- [08:54]
B
Okay, great. So fast forwarding now another three and a half years since that transition. What does your role look like on a day to day basis now?
- [09:02]
A
Yeah, it's pretty interesting. It's very hard to, to show you a typical day, but I still spend a lot of time working with our corporate partners, speaking on our behalf, trying to continue to establish and build those relationships. Our corporate partners provide us donations, but also volunteer mentors. So I'm always working with, with establishing that. I give guidance in just about every other area that ACP is involved in. So we have an outreach team that, you know, kind of goes out and spreads the word about us and communications. And so I'm involved in at least helping with strategizing in those areas if not representing us. And then, and then administratively, I'm quite involved in all the money coming in and all the money going out. I'm involved in that. One of the few signing authorities that we have review contracts. I also just manage people management. So in the idea of a lot of our organization people I mentioned are doing the operations associate role, but they also do other things. And so being able to understand who the right person is for an additional job that we need or project that we need to get done, I think that's, that's another big thing that I work on. Yeah. So it seems like, you know, and then I guess you can, you can throw in their hr, but HR in, in the fact of, you know, we're making sure that we're, we're treating everybody properly and, and we have the right policies in place and tracking things like PTO and time off and different things like that as well.
- [10:44]
B
It doesn't sound like you're doing enough, Richard.
- [10:46]
A
Yeah. And we have a young staff. Right. So along with that there's this kind of this day to day, you know, guidance slash confidence boosting as well. Right. Or they just want to run something by me. So oftentimes I have a glass window and oftentimes I have to have this sign that basically says I'm on a zoom. So sometimes so people, you know, because they'll start like waving to me like, are you on a call or what are you doing? If my door's closed. If my door's open, they're, they're, they're coming in all the time, just, you know, running things by me and strategizing, which is good. I mean, I like it, but that adds to, you know, when I'm not in meetings, that's what my meetings get or my time gets filled up with as well.
- [11:32]
B
Oh, that's cool. Well, it's fun that you have. Is everybody in person?
- [11:37]
A
So we have about 55 or so in person in New York City. We have about seven or eight in, we work in D.C. and then we have about 20 that are remote employees. Most of them are military spouses that are serving wherever their military spouses or were veterans at one point and got out.
- [12:01]
B
Got it. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I've only been in an in person office for like two and a half months of my entire career. And it was fun. It was fun to be able to go and, you know, have your boss, you know, you waved your boss and maybe we had like some pranks in the office and it can be fun. When you were mentioning that you have a younger staff, when I looked at the website, it sounds, it looked like a lot of your directors are older. What is the breakdown of. Because I think you had mentioned there's like multi generational leadership that's happened here. So what's the breakdown on how your team looks like in terms of the younger generation? And then you coming in with so much experience? What does that look like across the board?
- [12:46]
A
Yeah, like I said about 80 people on staff, I would say about 70 of them, this is their first or second job. Or, you know, maybe they, they're reentering the job market at some point, you know, so they're kind of at that level and then we have maybe, I should say maybe it's probably closer to 60. There's probably about 10 that are in that middle management level where they have been here for several years or this is their, you know, third or fourth job. So we kind of have that middle management level and then we have kind of a vice president level where, you know, they, they have various, you know, probably up to 15, 20 years of experience doing Gotcha.
- [13:36]
B
What are you doing to support, I mean, that's a large percentage of your team being their first or second job. What are you doing to support them in moving up, learning the skills that they need so that your company can remain as lean as possible while also still, you know, people aren't burning out. That's something that I, I know the younger generation has experienced a lot. When you come out of college, your first job tends to, you know, you're, you're hustling and grinding a lot more. And I'm curious what you guys are doing to support them as they move through their first couple years.
- [14:11]
A
Yeah, most of the, the entry level kind of people, you know, we've put them, as I mentioned, managing the, the mentorships and they're managing up to upwards of 100 mentorships once they get trained up. So we do have a very good training program and it goes over three weeks and it kind of is a series of not only kind of classes where they're. The good thing is we have several people in the office teaching those classes. So they get to meet different people in the organization that they might not have otherwise met and then get different perspectives. And then, you know, it builds where they're, they're doing kind of practice runs and you know, things like that. So by the time we start assigning them a caseload, they, they have a pretty good idea of what they have to do. And then we have them organized in ways where they have not only a team lead that's kind of paying attention to their program work, what they're doing, make sure that they're kind of keeping you up standard, but they also have a manager assigned to them which is more of that person to talk about professional development. And then what we do in terms of professional development is once we understand that they have a pretty good grasp on doing the program work and usually that takes about a good six months or so depending on, you know, their level of abilities and stuff, then we start introducing them to the other teams, if you will, throughout the organization and then in conversation with both them on what they would like to do and the senior management of what we need. We start giving them tasks in, you know, say maybe communications, you know, maybe they start with just doing a graphic for social media, you know, and then we start building up that way or outreach, we do presentations. So maybe they're, they're doing the data behind that, but now they're actually doing the presentation. Corporate partner relationships, right. They start talking to some of the corporate partners and doing some of the day to day work. And so we introduce them to some, one or some of those teams and projects and then we start allowing them to grow in those ways, you know, it turns out that not everybody is going to stay here for, you know, their whole life, their whole career. So my goal is to, you know, get them exposed to as much as they can, what they want at the right level and for as long as they're here, which, you know, oftentimes people are here between two and four years besides the people that stay long and become that middle management and all that stuff.
- [16:47]
B
Yeah, that's great. The exposure and opportunity to try on kind of different hats. And you know, you mentioned some, some of them doing some of the corporate partnership building. It's also something you said that you're maintaining. I know that those are so critical to an organization like yourself. What are some of your ways of. One, creating new partnerships for anyone that's listening, that that's something that they're thinking about doing. And how do you go about maintaining those relationships?
- [17:14]
A
Yeah, I mean, creating new partnerships, there's a lot of different ways. I mean, we have. Obviously people can come across us via websites and web searches and all that stuff. But, you know, oftentimes we get referred to our people get referred to us from. By talking to other people. We have a team of people that also kind of looks at trends like where we, if we have a protege that got a job last year at a company that's not working with us, we might reach out to them and say, hey, you know, you had a good experience in our program. Would you mind introducing us to someone at your company? You know, our founder is very involved still and he has good relations at senior level, so he often gets introductions that way. We also apply to a lot of grants and things like that, which then kind of get us to put in the door at a lot of organizations. So that's kind of the new business. You know, we also could do things like look at competitors and who's finding competitors and things like that. So that's kind of our new business. The maintaining relationships really is just finding a way to have a meaningful dialogue with them kind of on a regular basis. And so because these organizations are providing mentor volunteers, oftentimes at least monthly, we're sending them a list of who's volunteering from their company so they know the numbers. We also send them anecdotes of, you know, hey, someone just wrote, wrote to us and said that their mentor was amazing and whatever else. So we'll send them those stories. We'll also get them involved in things like social media posts or writing articles and things. And you know, finally, whatever we can do to help participate in Things that they're, you know. So I've speak at different companies, we do kind of lunch and learns to get the word out about us. We, we try to make it easy for them. So we're, you know, if they're going to advertise the opportunity to volunteer with us will provide them with the language and graphics and all that stuff so they can just kind of plug and play or just, you know, make little tweaks and move on from there.
- [19:19]
B
Awesome. Thinking about your career in the military, what skills do you think most have transferred into what you're doing now?
- [19:30]
A
Yeah, I think one of the biggest things in the military is you're always trying, you know, mission accomplishment, kind of getting the job done. There's not usually a time where you can say well I just can't do that or I'm not going to be able to get it done. So having that in the back of my head as, you know, a new problem or situation comes up. It's not about can we or can't we? It's just a matter of kind of figuring out how to right whether that be describing the trade offs of doing it or not doing it or just trying to come up with creative ways or collaborative ways to solve problems. Hey, it's Cameron Herold, your COO whisperer and guide to scaling businesses. Check out my YouTube channel at YouTube.com amronherald and that's H E R O L D where I share tons of raw tips and insider secrets to have you level up as a leader and grow your company from leadership hacks to growth strategies. It's all there. No fluff. Subscribe now. Hit that bell for notifications and comment on a few of the hundred videos that I've uploaded so far. And let's build your empire together. Let's go.
- [20:46]
B
I'm curious with the younger generation, have you found there? Because I hear a lot from, you know, there's people that say, oh look how awesome this younger generation is growing up with XYZ characteristics. And there's also a lot of hate as well. What has been your experience with coming from the military and having this attitude of we'll figure it out. Have you seen that to be a really big area that you've. Because I have seen this where people just want to give up fairly quickly or you know, let's like, let's find an easier, you know, option instead of going for the hard thing that might give us the bigger result. What has been your experience of seeing that? Have you found that to be true? Or what's your way of mitigating or helping build through that skill without having the military?
- [21:34]
A
You know, I think we have a really good team. I don't have any negative opinions about that. I think a lot of it. I have to continue to remind, you know, managers and senior people, like, it's our obligation to, to bring them along in the journey and to help teach them. Right. So, yes. Has someone come into my office and say, I can't do that? Sure, plenty of times. And not. And, you know, by the time they leave, I think that they're confident they can do it and they just have to figure out, you know, and I help them work through how to get it done. And so giving that advice and guidance or helping or just having that conversation. Right. Let them talk it out a little bit. Give them a little bit of, you know, what did you think about this? Did you think about that? Usually helps get them in the right direction. I mean, they know if I say we're going to do it, we're going to do it. Right? And so we. So it's. We. That's not a point of discussion or negotiation. Let's just figure it out. And, and I think also a lot of this, and I see this a lot, I think, with leaders, but one of the most important things you do is lead by example, right? So I know what their job is. I know how to do their job. I know what it takes to do their job. And so I also can call BS if you will, if, if they, they want to try to tell me that, you know, they don't have time or they can't. Right. I can, I can, you know, work through that mentally with them and, and help them come to the right conclusion. But I think being able, you know, they, if I am working with someone and they, they literally, I can tell they don't have time to do something, I'm like, well, I'll just do it right. Or I'll take that from you for this moment. You know, whether it's just be sending an email or whatever the case may be. So I think being willing to be part of the solution and not just like sitting in my office and barking out orders and, and saying, I don't care, just make it happen. I think it's, it's been super helpful. I feel like we, as I mentioned, because of the number of people come to my office, I think that they feel comfortable in doing that, and I think that that's important for a leader as well.
- [23:38]
B
Sure. I was going to say, you Seem super approachable, which would certainly help with that. And at the same time, you've led people in combat zones, also classrooms, now a non profit. Do you find yourself leading people really differently in each setting? And if so, in what ways?
- [23:57]
A
Well, I mean, I think, and one thing that kind of ties into the last question is that in the military you're always getting a new crop of soldiers and you know, and you're still working with, you know, different levels, just like you do in the civilian world. And so I, I never felt like I was completely out of tune with the younger generation. And by the way, most of these kids are almost the same age as my kids. So I have that perspective as well. But I think that the best thing you can do as a leader is understanding what makes each individual person tick and what their strengths and weaknesses are and then help, you know, capitalize on the strengths and then help them build on their weaknesses. And so I think it's an individual effort. And you know, I make it a point to talk to everybody. Again, I have 80 people, so it depends on how big you have the team is. But I make it a point to individually sit down with each one of them and just have a conversation about who they are, where they came from. I tell them about myself, get to know them a little bit, and then, you know, kind of what motivates them. And I think that's helpful as you're, you know, coaching them, moving them along.
- [25:05]
B
It's really cool that you've been able to stay that connected and close to your people and you've put so much attention on it and at the same time you're handling, you know, finance and HR and outreach. How are you managing all of that?
- [25:19]
A
It is a little bit mentally exhausting, right, to continue to shift from topic to topic as you get immersed in these type of jobs. I think that a lot of it is just sticks in your head by experience. But I think the other thing is I have the fail safe through subordinates of setting up these periodic meetings and goals such that there's some feedback that comes back. So, you know, for example, I have a meeting with my office management staff every week, right? So that's the part where, you know, did we pay this bill or you know, do we need to change something policy wise or whatever. And then they're going in back and doing some of that, that legwork. And then the next week, right, we recap on what did we talk about last week and then what, where do we need to go this fall, the next week And I think, and the same thing with working with our corporate partners. I have a junior person working with me on all wide partnerships, so I instill in them the responsibility to say, hey, we haven't talked to this company in a few weeks, or this person's not responding to me. And then we have the conversation on how to strategize going forward. I can't always keep in mind what 50 companies are doing, but having five people that each have 10 that can come into me and say, you know, this is what's going on with this company. What should we do? And then, you know, it refreshes my memory enough to, to, you know, move forward on that. So I think it's kind of having those, those checkpoints and, you know, not only with people, but then also kind of goal, goals as well.
- [27:00]
B
What does your day look like from your wake up to kind of wrapping up the day? How do you add in all of those meetings and touch points? Do you have, you know, plan your day tomorrow, today, or what is your process for structuring out your day and what does that daily look like?
- [27:20]
A
Yeah, for my work schedule, I, My calendar is, is visible by all the staff. And so I, what I tell people is if you need, if you need me, schedule time and if it's open on my calendar, you can take it. So that, that is. Prevents a lot of the back and forth of like, are you available this time? Are you available at this time? I. My professional calendar, if it's open, they can take those slots. And that, that helps me with making meetings with companies and then individuals. There is a lot of, you know, spontaneous meetings. So if I don't have something on my calendar, those, those things happen. Personally, I get up early in the morning and work out because that's the only free time that I, you know, that I know I can dedicate to, to myself. I have a commute in, so I, I live on Long island in their office in New York City. So I have about a, an hour commute, you know, all said and done. So a lot of times sitting on the train, I am, if I'm not reading or listening to a podcast, I'll make some time to take a look at my calendar for the day, review anything I need to review on the way home, maybe finishing up a little bit of business or, or recapping in my, in my head, like what, where I'm at, where I need to go the next day. But yeah, and then, you know, like I said, that's my commute home. And then Family commitments. My wife also opened the bookstore recently, so.
- [28:53]
B
Oh, exciting.
- [28:54]
A
I also take a lot of those C level roles from her as well. So I'm paying the bills for the bookstore or helping her in any way I can. So. Yeah.
- [29:06]
B
Oh, very cool. When you, you mentioned your reading or listening to podcasts on your commute, what have been some of the recent ones that you're. You're loving.
- [29:16]
A
Yeah. So I am a big nerd. I didn't mention it, but my degree and what I taught at West Point was organic chemistry, so I am a little bit of a science nerd too. So I'm, I'm big on health and nutrition, so I do listen to a lot of the, like Peter Attia and, and Huberman type of things for, for kind of that, what the current trends are with health and nutrition and. And I also sometimes listen to summaries of books from the bookstore so that I, I can speak intelligently about that with my, with my wife and any customers I interact with when I'm there. I also love leadership, the topic of leadership. So if, whether it be a book or there's a podcast, Jocko podcast, which he's a Navy seal, so he has a lot of good stuff, good content. So that's kind of the realm in which I'm. I do listen to like, Joe Rogan a lot of times, just depending on who the guests are, because I like the fact that it seems as if he has guests from all different walks of life on different subjects. And it's interesting to see. I think he's a good interviewer as far as letting people talk and then sometimes calling out or at least questioning things. And in ways it's not, you know, confrontational, it's just having those conversations about, like, what makes you think that? And why do you think that's true? And have you heard this? And what's the counter argument to that? And so depending on who the subject is, you know, I don't listen to all of them. Of course. They're all very long too, but if the subject is good and the right person, I'll continue to listen. That too.
- [30:54]
B
Nice.
- [30:54]
A
I'm reading right now. I'm reading a book about Vince Lombardi, so.
- [30:59]
B
Cool. All right. When you mentioned Jocko, is he the one that wrote Extreme Ownership?
- [31:04]
A
Yes. Yes.
- [31:05]
B
Okay, nice. Yeah, I read that early on, actually. I didn't tell you this, but my very first sales job, I was 19, I got hired with no sales experience, but I was really, really ambitious. And this guy that I had kind of dated for a summer was connected to him. And he was like, I think you'd be good for this position. I'm like, what is it? He said, it's a special forces leadership and selection prep program. I'm like, why would you think I'd be a good fit for that? You know, like I'm the 19 year old little like fairy blonde girl. And he's like, I just think, I think you would be good connecting with the types of men that he's selling to. And I got hired. I didn't make any sales for my first 22 calls. And I was committed to not getting fired. I was like, I will make a sale, I will help someone. And so I read every military book I could get my hands on. I was reading research reports to just understand the psychology what happens when men go through selection afterwards. Like, why should they go through a leadership program before going. And within six months I was leading that team and I was there for over a year. And it was truly one of the. I actually think it was probably like the top two most sort of look for the enjoyable jobs that I've had. I really, really loved it. It felt really impactful. I know that. I think it was like the average at that time was 20% make it through selection after our program, like it was 80% and just like mitigating injuries and building better relationship with spouses because that's a big thing too. So. Yeah, when you mentioned Jocko, I was like, I think, I think I've read that, that book and yeah, it was really instrumental for me and the way that I've continually operated and just always looking for. Yeah, what, what piece of this can I own? Yeah.
- [32:58]
A
And I think that that book is really good for, for people watching this to take a look at the read. Because it's interesting in that he takes like a military situation, you know, that, that you know, oftentimes didn't go as well it should have. And then he kind of applies the lessons learned or to like the civilian world, which I think is really kind of helpful.
- [33:18]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And it sounds like you're also really interested in the health side. Is there a health habit that you have besides going to the gym, but anything that you eat or something that you take every day that is unique to you and you find to work really, really well?
- [33:33]
A
I don't know about unique to me or working really well. I always am critical about wanting to, you know, do better or whatever. But I mean, I think most of what I listen to and ascribe to is that, you know, especially as you get older, strength training is still very important. Eating, I would say clean if you will, but you know, for the most part mostly fruits and vegetables and meat. I'm a big protein, you know, I try to make sure I get a lot of protein and I think that's important for just building and maintaining muscles. Again, especially as you get older, you lose muscle just by existing, so you have to continue to try to counteract that. Muscle is an indication of indicator of longevity oftentimes too, so. And prevents you from, you know, stepping off the curb and breaking a hip when you're older and things like that. So I think those are the things I try to pay attention to also. I mean, there's a lot of this, you know, health that goes along kind of mentally as well. Right. So being able to, to not let your mental health and relationships stress you out to the point that that's affecting it. So it's a lot to think about. So. Right. It's. There's never one way that that fits everything, but I think those are the things that I look towards. I mean, I do like some supplements, but I'm all, I'm not a big fan of, even though I'm a chemist, I'm not a big fan of, you know, just prescribing drugs to solve problems. So.
- [35:01]
B
Cool. What is your relationship like? Kind of taking a little bit of a different turn here from supplements to CEO talk. But what is the relationship like with your CEO?
- [35:14]
A
Yeah, so interesting. My situation is that our founder is kind of still the CEO. He started the organization about 17 years ago and he's, he was a fortunate person in that he was able to quit his job and just do this full time. And he doesn't take a salary very well. You know, big heart of a man that really wants to help this community succeed. And so that part is pretty interesting. He's very intense, he's very fast paced still and is always trying to find better ways to grow us and help more people. So it took a while to get to the point where I felt real comfortable with him. I think in the military you're often kind of trusted just by who you are when you walk into organization. And I felt it was the opposite. I felt like there was no trust in me. Whether that was really true or not, I mean that was, that was how I felt in that like, you know, I was always trying to find the best ways to communicate with him and, and you know, it changed and evolved along the way, but there was. We're not always in the same place. So you know, contrary to how some of the things happen in my office where people just walk in and say so I can't do that usually with him. So oftentimes I have to either set up time or, you know, through meetings or slack or email or whatever. And finding the right ways to keep each other informed, I think is. Took a long, you know, not a long time. It's always continually evolving, but it keeping each other up to date because we, we're, we become a lot more complex. When I first got here, we only had 50 employees. We have 80 now. We changed payroll systems because we had only had people working in New York City. Then we then brought on people from D.C. and then remote spouses. And so that got more complicated. Our, the revenue that we, that we brought in got bigger and from different sources and, and so all, everything got a little bit more complex. And so for the longest time he just ran things based off of how he remembers it when you know, there was five employees and, and whatever else. And now trying to, he's always trying to keep his head on that he knows everything going on and it's just, I feel like that's my job, but it's not an easy job and, and you know, so he tries to focus a lot more on, on you know, finding ways to better us long term and position us in better places where I focus on the running of the organization and you know, try to keep him informed of what, what we're doing. And then he keeps being informed of what he, he's doing and needs the staff to do and we try to work through that. So I think that part was a little bit, like I said, the communication part was difficult. I think just figuring out the right rhythm and, and you know, it continues to evolve. So that was probably the biggest thing. And, and again, this was his, he started this organization so like there's always going to be that kind of. They call it like a founder's point of view or whatever else. But like, you know, you have, I always have to kind of remember that. And you know, these, some of these relationships date back from when he started. And you know, how do I complement that, not take it over or change it or whatever else.
- [38:46]
B
Yeah, I would imagine having an organization for 17 years, there's probably some, maybe more rigidity around just like the way that you, with the way that it's been and then when you have some fresh eyes come in, I'm sure you've had different ideas and ways of doing things. What has been your approach to bringing up new ideas while also making sure that the vision and ultimately what he wanted to see this organization become stay consistent. So how do you guys align on that?
- [39:17]
A
Yeah, I think that's a really good question and I think that I'll use a jocko term in a minute. But the big thing is I always at the heart of everything that I do is try to make sure that I'm aligned with what his, you know, mission and goal is of growing the organization. So everything that I do, I, I have that in mind. And so just by virtue of that, a lot of us, you know, most of our, our thoughts intersect as you mentioned, I bring in different perspectives, new perspectives and, and learn new things all the time. And, and so I have a few different ways of doing it. You know, first is, you know, direct. Right. My opinion have you thought about. And a lot of times it's that it's the delivery. Right. I think if you, if you say you need to do this, that's different than have you thought about this. Right. And, and I had to learn that as well. Sometimes I just didn't say things the right way and sometimes my perspective was different. And so I also would use the jocko term, you know, like flanking. Right. Or you know, so sometimes the head on, like we should change something or we need to do this isn't working. But I find ways to kind of bring it in and show the almost lead him to the same conclusion. And I'm not like, you know, doing mental magic on him, but like just, you know, finding the right times, getting the right resources aligned. You know, maybe it's sharing the idea with other senior leaders in the organization and then kind of building a consensus so that we all kind of are agreement that this might be something we should try or whatever else. And I think oftentimes those are some of the best ways to get things done.
- [41:10]
B
One of the books that Cameron's written is called Vivid Vision. Might be one to, to listen to on your. I don't know if it's on audible, I actually should figure that out. But listen to a read. It's all about crafting a really clear idea of where the company's going, what the big objectives are, the way it's going to feel. And it can often help for anyone who's listening if you are finding yourself, you know, the CEO is bringing me a ton of ideas or you've got different ideas, having a really clear agreed on this is where we're going can kind of help you with that. Decision matrix of this doesn't align or it does. Well, this has been awesome, Richard. I really, really appreciate your time. And I always love to wrap up by asking, what are you most excited. Excited about, both personally and professionally in the next six months?
- [41:55]
A
Yeah, I think professionally we recently received a larger grant which was intended for capacity building, which is different from a lot of the grants that we've received, is to continue to do more mentorships and help more people. This one's directed to capacity building. So I'm excited about kind of working through that capacity building because there's so many aspects to it, whether it be marketing or kind of PR campaigns. There could be social media type of things involved. There could be it, you know, evolutions, AI integration. So there's a lot of potential growth there. And it's kind of excited that we were able to receive a sizable grant to do that, because in the past that would have to be done on the margins when we had time and things of that nature or, you know, funding. Now we. We have some money dedicated to do that. And so professionally, I'm excited about that because I think ultimately it'll end up allowing us to help more people, which is, you know, big goal. Personally, I'm always wanted. I always want to grow. So, you know, new experiences. Again, part of that program that I was just mentioning will be exciting to be involved because it is different and. And allows me to think outside the box a little bit. Creativity. So being part of that program and. Yeah, just trying to find ways to grow. I mean, with, as I mentioned, my wife owning the bookstore, I'm always learning new things about small business management and. And then also get exposed to a lot more, you know, books and thoughts that are out there. So I can keep growing that way. So those are probably the biggest things.
- [43:40]
B
Awesome. I love that. Well, if anyone's listening who feels equally excited about learning and growing, one of the best places you can do that as a COO is in the COO alliance. It has been the most impactful thing for me in my COO journey to be surrounded by other COOs who have figured way more things out than I have and not have to reinvent the wheel on my own. So if that is something you're interested in, feel free to look it up and check out Cameron Herald's website. Richard, thank you so much for your service. Thank you for your time, all of your shared wisdom. This was really amazing.
- [44:14]
A
Yeah, thanks for having me. And if anybody's interested, they can always go to our website, acp-usa.org to sign up, to be a mentor, or to get more information about, you know, potentially partnering with us.
- [44:24]
B
Incredible. Thanks, Richard.
- [44:26]
A
Thanks.
- [44:30]
B
You've been listening to Second In Command, brought to you by COO Alliance Founder Cameron Herald. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to like, share and subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and our other podcast streaming platforms. For more best practices from industry leading COOs, visit COOAlliance.com.