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Second in Command: The Chief Behind the Chief with Cameron Herold
Ep. 568 - TextNow COO Lindsay Gibson - How to Rebuild Culture (and Yourself) in Crisis
00:46:28
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- [00:00]
Lindsey Gibson
Because it was global. So it was, it was really, really hard because all the same things apply, right? Like people, they have to want to follow you, they have to believe in the vision for the team. And, and we went through a period of a lot of like cost cutting targets. And so I did a lot of town halls, a lot of travel. Right. A lot of FaceTime. And then I made it my goal to have a one to one with every single person at least once a year, which was a lot. But and I do that here too. So we have something here called Donut chats and I'm like, they're actually one of my favorite meetings of the day because it's not about work. The whole intention is just as an opportunity to get to know people.
- [00:50]
Podcast Announcer
Welcome to the Second in Command podcast produced by the COO alliance and brought to you by its founder, Cameron Herold. In the second in command podcast we talk to top COOs who share the insights, strategies and tactics that made them the chief behind the chief. And now here's your co host, former COO of a multi eight figure remote company and alumni member of the COO Alliance, Savannah Brewer.
- [01:19]
Savannah Brewer
Today on the Second in Command podcast, I am sitting down with Lindsey Gibson, the powerhouse COO of Tech Text now a mission driven company, redefining what it means to provide high quality free phone service at scale. Lindsey has spent nearly two decades leading through explosive growth, reinvention and operational transformation including 16 years at BlackBerry and two chapters as COO at TextNow. We get into how she reset clarity inside the organization, sharpening priorities, rebuilding accountability and regrounding the culture so the team knows exactly where they're going and what great execution looks like. She also opens up about her own time management systems, how her relationship to hard work has evolved and the leadership philosophy she's developed from scaling teams, supporting people through rapid change and navigating the pressure that comes with growth. It's a grounded, honest and deeply operational conversation with a leader who truly embodies authentic people first execution. If you're building or scaling a team, you are going to get a lot out of this one. Let's dive in. We are live with Lindsey. Welcome to the show.
- [02:28]
Lindsey Gibson
Thank you very much.
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Savannah Brewer
Let's go ahead and start us off. What does TextNow do and who do you serve?
- [02:35]
Lindsey Gibson
Oh, that's a very good question. So TextNow is an app that you can download and you get a phone number and you can talk and text for free on Wi Fi. We also offer a SIM card so we actually are operate as a carrier so our customers typically are people that are looking for free phone service. Our demographic is people that make generally around under $20,000 a year and they're deciding between paying their phone bill or paying other bills. So it is something that people use when they're looking for free phone service. And as I was saying, we have offer a SIM service as well. So you can flex up or flex down. So when you have money you can pay for like a day pass or an hour pass or you can, it can be completely free and you can also earn the ability to get data.
- [03:24]
Savannah Brewer
So is that where you guys make your revenues just from the SIM card aspect?
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Lindsey Gibson
No. So it's actually ad supported. So in the free app there it's an ad supported business and our goal or our mission is to give it all away for free. So the way we look at it is people don't remember paying for email and we don't believe that people should actually have to pay for phone service. So our goal over time is as we make money, we give more back to our customers. Customers.
- [03:50]
Savannah Brewer
That's really cool. How do you guys give back more?
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Lindsey Gibson
Yep. So we have, we just actually launched a loyalty program so you can watch videos and earn data and then we do it just through our flexible service plans. So most carriers would, you'd have to sign up for a month and it's sort of like a prepaid option but even more flexible because you can pay for like an hour at a time or you don't have to pay at all. You can just talk and text for free on WI fi.
- [04:16]
Savannah Brewer
Awesome. That's really cool. I had never heard of this before. Seeing that I was going to be talking to you today and looking into it. That's super valuable for people that wouldn't otherwise have access.
- [04:27]
Lindsey Gibson
Absolutely. And that's really how it started. But it's also really interesting because a lot of people have created another use case so people use it as a second number as well. So if you're selling something on Marketplace or you're in a dating app or any sort of instance where you don't want to give your number away, it is an it's app based. So you can just download it and you can have two phone numbers on your phone.
- [04:48]
Savannah Brewer
That's super cool. All right, well I'm curious to hear about your personal journey because when I was looking at your LinkedIn it looks like there's a gap. So you came back to the company. Give us a little bit of an idea of just your background overall and how you ended up at Text now. Maybe this second time.
- [05:07]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah, sure. So it's a bit of an interesting story and I will go back to the beginning. So I'm. I'm not one of those people that really aspires to has career aspirations or ever really said that I wanted to be a coo. I actually finished school and I was the head ski racing coach at our local little ski hill. And when the snow started melting, I was like, oh no, I need a job and I live in Waterloo. And so BlackBerry was hiring. So this is in the year 2000. And my very first job there was in the call center and it was just the little pager and nobody called us. And it was. There was like six of us. And I was really fortunate to get into that company so early on. I was there for 16 years and one of the things that I did there, there was so much exposure. So if you were successful in your role, there was so much opportunity for growth. So I spent probably the first year in the sort of the customer side, customer success side. But then I spend a good portion of my time in marketing. And what happened was BlackBerry shifted and started to sell the phone to consumers through retail for the first time. And everybody started returning them and we couldn't figure it out. And the carriers were really, they had something called the buyer's remorse rate that needed to be below 25%. And at that time ours was about 63% of people buying through retail were returning the phone. So I was given this project to go and sort of figure out what was causing this. So I went and visited stores, I went and visited call centers. And the problem was is everyone that was using blackberries before had IT departments that were setting them up for them and just handing them to them working. But the out of the box experience for a consumer was just so different because it was the first smartphone. So long story short, what I did is I started to bring the experts to the call centers so the software engineers, the battery engineers, the hardware engineers and get them closer to the customer so that we could make sure that the way we were designing the product, the way the out of the box experience was going to work to reduce the return rate. And it did. It worked. So I was doing that with one carrier in the U.S. t mobile. And then I was given the job to do that globally for all carriers. So that was sort of when I switched over into the operation side of the business. I was at BlackBerry for 16 years and when I quit, I had global responsibility for customer care, manufacturing and our repair Centers and everyone unfortunately knows the story with BlackBerry. So the reason I left is I just really wanted to do something new and TextNow reached out to me. So in 2016 I came here as the COO and at that time we had in Source Call center, we had a fulfillment center. It was like our true operations job. And I was here for five years and we were in Covid and I just sort of felt like I'd finished and accomplished what I came here to do. So I decided to leave. So what really motivates me is interesting work and I had a new opportunity to go somewhere and if I was going to be working from home, I wanted to challenge my, my brain. So I left and I was gone for just over three years, both in operations, two other companies and operations roles. But I did come back. So I've been back at text now for about a year and a half now. And Derek, our CEO, called me just after three years after I left and hadn't talked to him, but obviously we left on good terms and he just said that accountability and execution aren't working and the culture's going in the wrong direction. And so those are the key challenges that he asked me to come back and help
- [08:46]
Savannah Brewer
cement a lot to have that phone call.
- [08:49]
Lindsey Gibson
It did. And if you knew him or if you know him, it may meant a lot because he's a man of few words. And so when he said that, I was like, what? Really? But we really balance each other out. And I think that's a critical part, like you had said, the second in command, where our personalities are so different, but we balance each other out. And so it does. It just works. So it was coming back, I had new challenges. So I didn't have product and engineering reporting to me the first time, but now I do. And yeah, I think it's just part of the. He is actually the main reason I came back because I know that we work so well together and it's. I felt like I could definitely, definitely help the company.
- [09:25]
Savannah Brewer
That's cool. What was that first 90 days like, coming back in the second time.
- [09:32]
Lindsey Gibson
So when he called me, he said engineering's the problem. It's like, it's gone. It's engineering. We're not delivering. And I said, okay. So I came in and I had to do the assessment myself. So what I came to understand, obviously my. The way I work is to go pretty deep early on to really understand everything that's going on, to help identify where we, you know, how, where we go from there. So I feel like you have to work at a low level before you can be more strategic. And engineering wasn't the problem. It was product and it wasn't the people. It was just a lack of roadmap and clarity on what our goals were. So what was happening in the three years I was gone is the finance org was creating a budget, sharing it with the company, and there was no build, there was no plan to hit it. And so the year before I came back, they had reforecast five times, and the company has been successful year over year. But there was a huge disconnect between the company KPIs and the work we were doing. They were not tied together at all. So what I identified is there was no company vision, so it hadn't been updated and employees were really disconnected to know, like, why the work they were doing mattered to the big scheme of the company or the overall goals of the company. So that was the first step, is really redefining the vision and communicating. And then we're lucky that one of our board members was a chief product officer at a big tech company. So he actually flew here to Waterloo. And we got all of our leaders together. So product, engineering, finance, marketing, everybody together and talked about the importance of building a product roadmap collaboratively across the company. And so what we did, we did all of that in the first, probably six months that I was here. And then the last thing we did was organized into pods. So a lot of the feedback I heard was everybody was sort of running in whatever direction was key for that that week, whatever problem. So you'd have people working on something and then they get pulled off and pushed over here and pushed over here. So there's a lot of whiplash happening. So we organized into pods by three pillars. So around our customer, around reliability, and around innovation. And then we fully staffed those pods, dedicated people, so that all that whiplash of people being pulled all over the place wasn't happening. So really it was about really defining what success looks like, organizing the teams aligned to those successes, and then building the roadmap to support it.
- [12:01]
Savannah Brewer
Beautiful. And you said that when he called you, he mentioned lack of accountability in the culture, going downhill. Out of those three things, you kind of just talked about, where did the accountability in the culture kind of, where did that lie?
- [12:16]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah, so I. I won't lie. There was some. Definitely been some moments where I feel like I'm. I was. We were redoing things. I think it was just a weird time. Right. So then the three years I was gone, it was the great resignation. So we had a lot of people leave, we had new people come in. There was a shift to the company to being fully remote first, which can work, but you have to have sort of the, the programs around that. So the accountability piece was the problem because people really didn't know what good looked like for their team. Right. It was, it was just sort of a dive and catch mode. So I would say that was a bit easier to solve to just get clarity of like you are on this team and, and now we have the pods, they all have a North Star and they have targets and all of those things. So that was easier. But I think some of the reasons it got off track was just the lack of structure. Culture though, to be honest, was harder. And it's something that I think we're going to continue to have to evolve. So what we've done is we've picked one of our core values. Our goal obviously is to have a high performing team and just picking one of our values. So this year was act like an owner. Next year it's going to be customer obsession and really leaning into our values. And we've made a lot of changes. So a couple of things that we've done on the culture side is really commitment to bringing people together. So we always, while I was gone, they established an all hands where the company gets together for one week a year in March or April, but we also do that in December. So now we have Waterloo Week. So everybody's actually here right now and we finish out the year. We have a town hall, we have our holiday party, everything. We also implemented mandatory in person onboarding. So we run it four times a year. So as people are hired, they come to Waterloo in cohorts of people hired in three months and they're here for a week. And that's more of a structured program as well. And then the last thing we did is we implemented two in person planning weeks. So as we build out that roadmap, the teams come together in October every year to do sort of like the bigger plan for the following year and then we come back together in May to reassess for the second half of the year.
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Savannah Brewer
Sounds like your hand is in a lot of different parts of the business. How do you balance all of that?
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Lindsey Gibson
Yeah, I get asked this question a lot and it's funny, I think the best experience was working at BlackBerry because it just moved so fast. And when I left there I had, I don't know, like maybe 700 employees and I had a very broad mandate and it was global. So it's, I was on calls from like, you know, sometimes 5:30 in the morning, 9:00 clock at night. So this just feels balanced, just naturally. Right. It's 200 people, we're all in North America and there's just like a different vibe than, than working there, which, you know, I definitely value that experience. Yeah, it's perspective. I think it's just perspective that there's a lot of different hats, but it's only 200 people. It is tricky to get 200 people all moving in the same direction, but it comparatively, it just feels easier.
- [15:19]
Savannah Brewer
What are your boundaries that you have?
- [15:23]
Lindsey Gibson
Yes.
- [15:24]
Savannah Brewer
Yeah.
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Lindsey Gibson
So we, one thing that we do here is a values boot camp. So I actually just went through it this week, so I identified my top three values. So family health and self respect are my top three. So this is something I learned. I have one daughter, she just turned 16 about a month ago and working at BlackBerry there wasn't a lot of balance and it was actually one of the main reasons that I quit. So when I quit there, she was six years old and I, I, that was the main reason I felt like I was missing things. So every job I've had since then, I just make it really clear to whoever my leader is is like these are, you know, family is actually my first priority. My health is really important and I just don't compromise. So I, I haven't missed any sort of like important event that she's had, whether it's a school play or a recital. We had, she turned 16 a week, we had onboarding week here and she was like desperate to get her learner's permit the morning of so took like half a day but like that was the priority and I think it actually is important to do those things so it shows to other people that you can have balance. But I would say I kind of learned it the hard way and that's the advice that I give people because if I'm being completely honest, and I would never tell her this, but when the first three years of her life, like I, I worked so much and I traveled so much, I don't remember it. So it was like sort of a hard lesson to learn, but I definitely learned it and haven't compromised on it since.
- [16:50]
Savannah Brewer
I had a little bit of a different. I don't have any kids, but I lost my health to mold for about
- [16:58]
Lindsey Gibson
four years very deeply.
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Savannah Brewer
And then the last couple years I'm coming around the corner at almost a hundred percent having back to normal health.
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Lindsey Gibson
That's Amazing.
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Savannah Brewer
But I was scaling a company during that period, and I was just throwing my body at every problem. I mean, I was taking my phone into the shower, which is kind of embarrassing to, like, say out loud now, but that's how in the weeds I was and how much I. I felt like the business came first besides my health and my me time. And it got better towards the end. But I notice even now, three years after leaving that environment, I still really struggle to have clear boundaries because I feel like there's some worth or value I still am finding to like me doing the work, except, like, the being it's in the doing. What advice would you give to any. Anyone that's listening where they feel like they are in the thick of it? The company is scaling. You know, there's a lot of pressure on them, and yet they're feeling this need to protect their personal time and their health, but also still giving the business what it needs. How do you do that?
- [18:10]
Lindsey Gibson
So I actually would have, like, maybe three pieces of advice for that. One of the best experiences of my Life was quitting BlackBerry, driving out of that parking lot, and I looked up at the sign and I gave 16 years of my life to it. And I learned so much. Right. It was just such a valuable experience. But you realize that everyone is replaceable. You realize the company's going to go on whether I quit or not. And that was a very, very good lesson to learn that I think. You realize every company. I did it here, the company went on fine without me, right. For three years after I left. So I think that's really important from a perspective, like giving yourself perspective. I think the other thing is when it doesn't feel right, something's not right. Like if you have anxiety and you're. You're not sleeping or it doesn't feel right in your body, like something's out of balance. And you can't ignore that. Like, just pushing through is just going to make everything worse. So you have. That's the day, the time, like, even when you're the most busy and if it's not feeling right, like, honestly, take a day off and you got to figure out what it is. Because if you continue to push and push and push, your family's not going to like you, your colleagues aren't going to like you. Like, it's just not going to work. And then I would say the superpower that I learned is honestly just have to become a morning person. I get up at five usually, and that's like, you have like three or Four hours in a day. And sometimes that can mean blowing up balloons cause it's my daughter's birthdays and other times it can mean I'm working on a board presentation because that's when I work the best. But it's literally like really being organized in time management and for me like making sure that I get up early and that's like actually when there's time that is undisturbed.
- [19:55]
Savannah Brewer
What is your time management process?
- [19:59]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah, so I, I am a morning person but, but that also means that I go to bed fairly early and I'm, I'm useless. Like I'm useless after like 4 o' clock of obviously I'll still work. But I, that's not when I do my best thinking. And I typically try to every day sort of set an intention for the day, like what, what is the priorities and what are the things only I can do today? And then the rest of it really doesn't matter. So when I finish the day and again sometimes it's personal and sometimes that's work related. I have to be organized and I like we have a town hall today. I was doing this today. So those are the things that only I can do. Everything else doesn't matter. That's sort of how I would, I would balance it.
- [20:40]
Savannah Brewer
I like that. And I think I read somewhere that authentic leadership is maybe like a phrase that you used. How do you still embody that even when you're under pressure? And what does that even mean?
- [20:54]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah, yeah, so there's a bit of a story there. So when I worked at BlackBerry they wanted to give me a leadership coach and so I got someone external and the first step was a 360. My peers, my employees, my boss. And it came back that I looked at people as objects. And so my boss is like meeting with me and, and this is quite a long time ago. And I was like, yeah, like those people are here to get the job done. Like that's my job is to hit the goals. And he's like, yeah, but you don't want to like leave dead bodies in the process. And it took a really long time for me to realize that being who I am outside of work and inside of work is so important. Like your employees, they just want to know you. The people that work with you, they just want to know you. And I worked in a very male dominated environment and I can tell you quite honestly, most of my bosses there, they didn't know if I was married, they didn't know if I had kids. Like no one knew Anything. So it was a hard lesson to learn, but really that's what it is, is being the same person, being authentic. So good days, bad days, everybody has it. And just being open and honest and, you know, telling people I had a terrible sleep last night or something, you know, just sort of finding that connection with people just makes it all so much easier. I think it comes a bit with age too. So I think when you're sort of climbing the ladder and you feel like you have to show up like everybody else in a meeting room and then you just get to a point where you're like, I don't care. Right? Like just, I am who I am sort of thing. Yeah, that's what I, that's what I'd say.
- [22:26]
Savannah Brewer
It's so impactful, those moments where you get really tough feedback. But it's like, oh, this was a total blind spot for me.
- [22:34]
Lindsey Gibson
A hundred percent. Yeah, I brought it home and my husband read it and I was like, can you believe this? He's like, yep, I can. But I'd like to say, and you know what? I would say becoming a mother definitely softened me as well. For sure. That helps. Just. Yeah, it gives you a lot of perspective.
- [23:01]
Cameron Herold
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- [24:00]
Savannah Brewer
Yeah, the feedback I got when I was leaving the company was that people didn't feel safe sharing things with me, which was shocking to me because I had this kind of like mama bear. People would like call me mama bear. So I always felt like people are telling me all sorts of things, but there was a select few people that I as we Started scaling really quickly and I wasn't able to have as close of relationships with people then. Like the limited interactions I had with them were so business focused, like it was about just getting to the point because I didn't have, you know, the whole like hour to just chit chat like it was in the early days. So how do you embody that now with your team? When you guys have 200 people and maybe you are meeting with someone really quickly, how do you make them feel seen and acknowledged while still holding the kind of operational excellence?
- [24:56]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah, so this is a work in progress. Right. Because I would probably get that similar feedback here. There's people that feel really comfortable with me. I've been told my whole life I'm intimidating just even outside of a work environment. So it is hard. I'm introverted by nature and so I'm always thinking so my face doesn't reflect. Maybe if I walk by someone how I'm feeling about them. But they can like internalize it. Right. And that's one of the things is, is people create stories and so it's hard. It's something that I continue to have to work on because it's 100% my nature to want to move fast, to be very results driven. But I think it's really important as people work for me and get to know me, they know that I'll always have their back, that they can come to me with a problem. But I have to get to that point. Right. I, I say to my employees all the time, like, if anything is keeping you up at night, we need to talk about it. Because literally nothing should be keeping you up at night. Something's not right. Let's talk about it. So it could be about our relationship, it could be that they're worried about a metric, but the sooner we talk about it, the better. And I think you can't just say it and people believe it. It just is sort of earned over time. So it's not, I'm not at the same place with every single person, but just really trying over time. And then as I was saying, we have all, all of our employees here this week and so it's just participating. We had a trivia night last night, so getting on a team with people. It's ugly sweater day today. Participating and just being part of the team. Why I'm very much a team person. I grew up playing team sports and I truly in my, at my core believe that a company is the sum of every, like all of its parts. So just making people feel that Way as well.
- [26:39]
Savannah Brewer
Those are great. There's a quote I'm trying to remember. I'm probably going to butcher it, but something like, people don't believe how much you care until you.
- [26:47]
Lindsey Gibson
Oh, yeah. They don't care what you do. No. They don't care what you say. It's what you do. Or something like that. Yeah. Or how you make them feel.
- [26:53]
Savannah Brewer
It's how you make something like that.
- [26:54]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah. They'll remember. They won't remember what you say, but they'll remember how you make them feel. That is a. That's not bang on. Yeah, yeah.
- [27:01]
Savannah Brewer
There's. There's a different one that's similar to it, but I'll have to remember it. And then the. In terms of like the whole system, I was talking to this guy who owns Somatics and it's like the number one breathwork company and they don't have in their company, like, different. Their org chart isn't up and down. And this department over here, it's like a system of the body. So like he calls his departments like, this is like the heart and this is the brain. And so everyone feel like, can really see how it's all working together as a system. I thought that was so cool.
- [27:37]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah, that's actually rare. That's brilliant.
- [27:39]
Savannah Brewer
Yeah, it's like, I want to build my company. Like, nature grows, not this like fast, let's shoot up. It's like when you look at the redwoods, they've been there for hundreds of years and they didn't grow overnight. It took them a long time of steady, you know, patient growth. And he's like, that's how I want to build my team. And all of the principles that he has embodied in his culture around nature. I thought it was so cool.
- [28:04]
Lindsey Gibson
That is really cool. Actually. I've never heard that.
- [28:06]
Savannah Brewer
Yeah, I know that it Sounds like with BlackBerry there was, I think you guys had like a 600 plus person team. Is that right?
- [28:14]
Lindsey Gibson
That I had, yeah.
- [28:15]
Savannah Brewer
Or, yes. So what, what changes in how you communicate in lead vers at like 600 people versus 200. Were there any major differences between those numbers?
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Lindsey Gibson
Yeah, huge, actually. And because it was global, so it was, it was really, really hard because all of the same things apply. Right. Like people, they have to want to follow you. They have to believe in the vision for the team. And. And we went through a period of a lot of like, cost cutting targets. And so I did a lot of town halls, a lot of travel. Right. A lot of FaceTime. And then I made it my goal to have a one to one with every single person at least once a year, which was a lot, but. And I do that here too. So we have something here called Donut chats. And I'm like, they're actually one of my favorite meetings of the day. Because it's not about work. The whole intention is just as an opportunity to get to know people. So I would say it's the same in that the principles are all the same, but just like how you execute it is just so much harder at scale or not even at scale at like a, at a big, big company that's global.
- [29:26]
Savannah Brewer
What have you seen to be the biggest impacts from still having a one on one with everybody once a year?
- [29:33]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah, I think it just is an opportunity for them to get to know me as a person. And we don't really talk about work. So if the person want has work questions, they can ask them. But the intention is really just to be like find some sort of commonality or something that when we run into each other again it's like oh, you know, did you go skiing or whatever that is or your, your child or just some sort of connection point especially. I would say the biggest thing that matters right now in this remote environment is you're missing the opportunities for like just the chit chat by when you're making coffee in the morning or where you have lunch. So you have to actually plan those moments because we're all on zoom all day and it's just work. Like you never are talking about anything but work. So it's a bit of a trap I would say that you can fall into and you don't actually get to know or have the same connection with people. I read something that said that, you know, years and years ago everyone got their community from going to church and it was people with the same values. And a lot of it didn't matter. Your economic or socioeconomic, it's. You were really value based and you were there with your family and then sort of work replaced that. But it's not great because you don't necessarily have the same values. And then now in this remote thing it's like actually connection and community is really lost for people. So I would say for me, I would love if the whole world went back to the office because I think it would make life easier. But it's not a reality. And, and so that's the biggest challenge I think we face right now is how do you have people feel connected to the team, the business, and then especially people who are working by Themselves who lack that community. It's really, really hard.
- [31:10]
Savannah Brewer
The in person events were so critical for us and, like, we built a company that was literally helping other people build remote teams.
- [31:19]
Lindsey Gibson
Okay.
- [31:20]
Savannah Brewer
And being able to bring our team in person was such a game changer. Like, we had. I just noticed that after we spent three days of just hanging out, playing together, when we went back to work, everybody was so much more focused, driven. Like, there is an ROI to doing fun team events, for sure.
- [31:39]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah. Always breaks down barriers. Right? Like, it's. So now what I do find happens, whether it's in person or just one of our donut chats, I always say to people, like, please, anytime, if you're concerned about something, have a question, don't hesitate to reach out. And not everybody does it, but a lot of people do.
- [31:56]
Savannah Brewer
That's great. Yeah. It keeps you in the. In the mix of what's actually happening. I rolled out this, like, new process after I was struggling with some at that point, that we had grown the team really quickly at one period, and I wasn't able, kind of like I was saying earlier, wasn't able to know everything that was going on with everybody all the time. It made it harder for me with new hires to know if I should keep them on or if they were. If they were really the right fit. And so one of the things that I told new hires coming on is like, hey, we meet. I meet with the team once a week and we go over core values and core competencies, and people are giving me feedback on how you're. You're doing, and then I can tell you directly so you don't have to guess how you're doing. Because sometimes when you're in a new role, you're like, do people like me? Do they think I'm doing a good job? And especially in our culture, it was so high performance, a sales company that
- [32:50]
Lindsey Gibson
it was really supportive.
- [32:51]
Savannah Brewer
I was like, I'm not sure how this is going to go, but it
- [32:54]
Lindsey Gibson
was really helpful for them.
- [32:55]
Savannah Brewer
And then it was really helpful for me too, because everybody on my team was like their own HR manager and they were able to report to me things that I would never have heard if I wouldn't have opened up the safety on all different sides to have those conversations kind of going a different direction. What would you say are now the biggest personal challenges for you as a coo?
- [33:21]
Lindsey Gibson
I definitely say, like, there's work for me to do just on the, like, personal connection with people part. Right. Like, I do. It's funny. So when I came back. I guess what people said is, oh my God. I think like there was, I think people were happy that I came back but they were like, oh, she's going to make this call, I'll come back to the office and she's going to cancel the all hands. Like that was what I heard in the first week. And, and so there is like a story that I'm tough and I, I, I am right. My expectations are high but I think you can have both and I think you can have like a really success. I, I believe my job is to make the company successful and that's what I'm paid to do and I have to balance that with bringing people along for the ride and building relationships. So my nature is a hundred percent drive the company and the harder thing for me always will be and it's gotten a lot better is I just have to really foster the people relationships and I would say that's my biggest challenge too or is just moving fast enough. Like I just want to always move faster and do more but I just, it's more of an internal challenge. Like I have a lot of conversations with myself in my head and so year over year, like we're, like I said we have our town hall today and how well we've done year over year is we have a lot to be proud of. So sometimes I just have to take a breath and be like, okay, like this is good and we'll just keep moving.
- [34:43]
Savannah Brewer
What's one of the things from this last year that you're most proud of?
- [34:47]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah, so I would say I'm very proud. Our engineering velocity is up 31% year over year. Our incidents are down like 19% which is huge. And I, it's, I think it'll be a joke in the town hall but last year I said, I'm going to say that we couldn't even spell AI. We didn't know how to spell it. And now we have like 10 tools implemented in four more in testing. So there's a lot of stuff on that side. We also implemented a very, the first time the company did a very cross functional project. So we basically built our own core. So we're a carrier now. We have a relationship with AT&T and that was huge. And that was one, that was actually our top priority last year. And we did it like the team did it and it's, yeah. So I'm really proud of that.
- [35:31]
Savannah Brewer
How do you identify and develop emerging leaders inside the company?
- [35:38]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah. So with most companies, right, it's like the person that's the best at the job. Or they're really smart. Then you give them the leadership. Often people who are very curious. Right. So I'll give you a really good example. I had when we were at our all hands in Mexico, I had conversation with one of our engineers. I sat and had lunch with him. He told me all about himself, told me what his background was, and I said, that's so great to meet you. If you have any questions or never hesitate to reach out. And he's one of those people that took me up on it. And he would message me and be like, just want to share. He would share good. And he would share concerns. And long story short, we had an opportunity for an engineering manager. And so I typically work with my leaders to say, let's shop our own house first.
- [36:23]
Savannah Brewer
Right.
- [36:24]
Lindsey Gibson
Is there anybody in the company that's aspiring that we could give them the opportunity to try it and be in acting? And so his name came up and it's, you can't just be really good at your job. Right. You have to be curious. You have to be able to work well with people. And I thought, wow, like, this guy's not even remotely intimidated to tell me his opinion. And so when we, we reached out to him to say, is this something you wanted to. You want to try? And we, we set it up in a way where it's like, if it's not for you, it's not punitive. You can go back, but if you like it, then we'll move forward. But I would say, yeah, like, you have to be. Show that you're adaptable. And I think curious is really important. And then not be. You have to be pretty open. Not afraid to ask for help too.
- [37:07]
Savannah Brewer
What is one of your favorite AI tools out of the top 10 that you guys are now using?
- [37:13]
Lindsey Gibson
Well, I think, I think the team would probably say cursor, but I'm not using that. I just, like, I'm in love with ChatGPT. I have like an on like for everything. Yeah. But I think our engineering team might say cursor. I don't know. I think it's different for different people.
- [37:29]
Savannah Brewer
I'm recently using Reclaim. Have you tried that?
- [37:32]
Lindsey Gibson
No.
- [37:33]
Savannah Brewer
To do Calendar management tool. I'm like three days in. It's what I like about it is you can like block free time where you'll put all your to dos in there and then you can rank them by priority, like how critical they are. Wow, how long it will take. And until you mark it done it will keep putting it in those, like, project time on your calendar automatically and it rearranges it, which is what I have spent hours doing every week. Anyways. There's a couple things with it. I mean, all of these AI tools are like, they've all got their own glitches because they're trying to build.
- [38:10]
Lindsey Gibson
So, you know.
- [38:12]
Savannah Brewer
But yeah, reclaim is one that I'm finding very interesting right now, which you might like.
- [38:17]
Lindsey Gibson
Well, I'll have to look that up back out. Yeah, yeah.
- [38:21]
Savannah Brewer
What is the time in your career where you felt the most stretched or the most challenged?
- [38:29]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah, it would definitely be at BlackBerry. So as I was the VP of Global Repair Services, so that was every time a phone got returned, we had an obligation to repair it and send it back and refurbish them. And that was a VP job. But then as the company started to downsize, I ended up getting additional two other VP jobs. So there was a VP of Customer Care, VP of Manufacturing, and then me. But I ended up getting all three of those jobs. Yeah. In one. And I would say that's that time period where I thought I had it like, that I had balance. Because what I would do is I'd get up at 5 and I would take calls from like 5:30 till 7:30 with Asia or at Europe. And then I would block my calendar from 7:30 to 9 to get my daughter up and get her to school. And then I would come home and I'd block my calendar. I would say probably 6 to 7:30 at night and then I would be on calls again. And so you sort of like, schedule wise, I had it all figured out, but life wise, definitely not. Yeah, that was. That was absolutely an insane time. Yeah.
- [39:40]
Savannah Brewer
How long were you in that period?
- [39:42]
Lindsey Gibson
Probably like two years, I would say. And it's funny, I look back and it was always like, every memory of that, like those two years, it was always dark and raining. So I was like. Yeah, yeah.
- [39:52]
Savannah Brewer
Would you say that at any point during your career you experienced burnout? Like, would you actually say that? Burned out?
- [39:59]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah. I didn't realize it, but when I quit and I came here, like, I'm not joking. When I probably was in bed at like sleeping at like 7:30 every night for like months. I had no idea how tired I was.
- [40:13]
Savannah Brewer
Wow.
- [40:13]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah.
- [40:14]
Savannah Brewer
When you got back into a position, like, would you say you were still burnt down, it just took you a while to kind of like rebuild that capacity and the boundaries again?
- [40:23]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah, yeah.
- [40:24]
Savannah Brewer
You weren't like, totally good right away.
- [40:26]
Lindsey Gibson
No, no, no. So coming here, I think I Had like two weeks off in between. And I didn't realize, like, if I ever was to. To do that again, like, I think it's so important to take time off in between, like, meaningful time off. But I, I've never done that, so I think that's really important. And I. You don't really know how tired you are until you leave something because you're sort of working on autopilot. Yeah. So I had to like, start working here and learn this job while recovering at the same time.
- [40:55]
Savannah Brewer
I'm reading a book right now called, I think literally the title is Burnout and like, How Trauma Affects the Body. Something like that. But I mean, it's been three years since I left a pretty intense environment and I've done little things, fractional work and do the podcast and I have some coaching clients, but mostly I've been chilling and I'm like, re engaging myself back to looking for new companies that I can be all in on again. Like, I'm excited to find that thing where I wake up and I'm just so pumped to build and create and lead my team. And there is just. My body is not being, like, in alignment with what I wish it would be. And so it's now I'm like, I'm really starting to research the effects of the body and being like, it talks about. There's the three different levels of like, our nervous system, which in the book it says green, amber, and red. And red is when, like, you completely, like, your body just shuts down. It's like when you said I'm. I'm useless after 4 o'.
- [41:56]
Lindsey Gibson
Clock. Yeah.
- [41:57]
Savannah Brewer
What they would call, like, your vagus nerve is just like, in shutdown mode. And until you get rest and recovery and you can go back up to green or amber, you'll stay in that red. And a lot of people, when they go through burnout, if they don't give themselves proper time to rest, their body will just like, stay in the red zone. It's fascinating.
- [42:16]
Lindsey Gibson
That is fascinating.
- [42:17]
Savannah Brewer
Yeah.
- [42:17]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah. I'm really lucky. Until very recently, like, my superpower has always been sleep. Like, I put my head on the pillow and I'm dead asleep. I think it's so important to prioritize sleep and then exercise. I'd learned that about myself in the pandemic. Like, my mental health is completely tied to my physical health. But again, it's funny, right? You just go, go, go until you. You learn these things. If you don't prioritize them, your body has a way of telling at Some point. Yeah.
- [42:44]
Savannah Brewer
The whispers become the screams.
- [42:46]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.
- [42:47]
Savannah Brewer
What have been some areas outside of the company that you're working in, if any, where you've gained some of your, like, mentorship or guidance? Have you been in any programs or hired any, like, executive coaches outside of the company to help you through some of those periods where maybe you weren't sure what you were doing or.
- [43:07]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah, I did have an executive coach at. BlackBerry, and she was amazing. It was the first time I'd ever had that, and it was really great because she, like, the very first thing she said is, like, let's work on your hardest relationship in your life, because if you can figure that one out, then, like, the rest is easy. And she also really, like, pushed me to my limit to be like. I think she was almost telling me to leave because it was just so crazy at that time. And so she helped me work through. Well, what's the worst case? Like, what's the worst case? What's the worst case? And then I do have a leadership coach here, so I had him the first time I was here, and I have him again, which has been great. So the longevity of the relationship, I think, is really, really helpful, and him knowing our CEO and founder. But what I find really interesting about that is, like, sometimes when we meet, we talk all about work, and sometimes we talk nothing about work. It's about life because the two totally overlap. Right. If something's going on personally, it's definitely impacting me professionally and vice versa. So I would say that's been really important. That's great.
- [44:11]
Savannah Brewer
For anyone that's listening. There's a couple things that Lindsey touched on earlier. She was talking about how important vision is. So if you are someone that related to what she said about everyone kind of rowing in different directions. Cameron has a book called the Vision that you can look at, and then we also have a CEO alliance. If you're wanting to find more mentorship like what you just mentioned, Lindsay, being able to have outside support and people who can empathize with what you're going through can be a game changer to just kind of round us out here. Lindsay, I would love to know, what are you most excited about in the next six months, both personally and professionally?
- [44:48]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah, personally. Well, I'm a huge skier, so. And I coach two ski teams for my daughter, so we're just kicking that off, and that's, like, my favorite time of year, and it's literally exhausting, but I love it. So personally, I'm really excited to get into that professionally. You know what, I've had a lot of reflection just building this town hall that we're going to have today. So I'm really most excited about a break. Right. Giving everyone a break over the holidays and coming back. And we have a really solid plan for next year. Our focus next year is customer obsession. So getting the whole company closer to our customers and growth. So this year was very we built foundation. So I'm excited. I'm excited to see the growth that we can have through. We're doing a marketing reboot and just some of the product changes that we're making is going to be really exciting next year.
- [45:33]
Savannah Brewer
Awesome. I love when you have like that crystal clear plan and then all you do is just like show up and follow the plan.
- [45:41]
Lindsey Gibson
Yes.
- [45:42]
Savannah Brewer
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for your time and your energy, sharing your wisdom. This was an amazing episode.
- [45:48]
Lindsey Gibson
Yeah, no problem. It's nice to meet you.
- [45:52]
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