Ep.442 - Stemregen COO, Spencer Matthews

Summary

Second in Command: The Chief Behind the Chief Episode 442 - Spencer Matthews, COO of Stemregen Release Date: January 21, 2025

In Episode 442 of the Second in Command podcast, host Cameron Herold engages in a comprehensive discussion with Spencer Matthews, the Chief Operating Officer (COO) of Stemregen. Drawing from his extensive experience in operations and leadership, Spencer delves into the intricacies of his role, the unique positioning of Stemregen in the biohacking industry, and the dynamics of managing a fully remote executive team. This detailed summary captures the essence of their conversation, highlighting key insights, strategies, and personal reflections shared by Spencer.

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1. Introduction to Spencer Matthews and Stemregen

Cameron Herold introduces Spencer Matthews as the COO of Stemregen, emphasizing his impressive track record in scaling businesses. Spencer brings 13 years of industry experience to Stemregen, guiding the team towards ambitious growth goals. Notably, he has been instrumental in scaling a company from $0 to $50 million in Annual Recurring Revenue (ARR), culminating in a $200 million exit.

[01:49] Cameron Herold: "Spencer is an Idaho native where he resides with his wife and four kids, spends a lot of time with his family in the outdoors and in Sports."

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2. Understanding Stemregen and Its Differentiation

Spencer provides an insightful overview of Stemregen, clarifying its mission and how it stands apart from traditional stem cell therapies.

[05:04] Spencer Matthews: "Stem regen in a nutshell is Christian's life's work of stem cell research. ... Stem regen is all about helping boost your natural repair system and helping the release of stem cells from your bones to your Blood, so they can then go and migrate and repair where they need to."

Stemregen offers an oral supplement that triggers the body’s own stem cell release from bone marrow, enhancing natural repair processes. This contrasts with typical stem cell therapy clinics that rely on injections sourced either from the patient's own cells or external donors.

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3. Target Demographic and Client Base

The discussion shifts to Stemregen’s target audience, which primarily includes health-conscious high achievers, encompassing biohackers, athletes, individuals over 50 concerned with age-related diseases, and those recovering from injuries.

[06:49] Spencer Matthews: "Our umbrella target audience is the health conscious high achievers. ... Either currently struggling with age related diseases or, you know, overcoming, you know, acute or long term injuries and then just preventative, you know, caring about their longevity."

This demographic segmentation ensures that Stemregen’s offerings are tailored to individuals keen on proactive health management and longevity.

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4. Spencer Matthews’ Role and Transition to Stemregen

Cameron inquires about Spencer’s journey to joining Stemregen, highlighting the collaborative effort with his business partners.

[08:37] Spencer Matthews: "We came into Stemregen June, July of 2023. ... We formed our own advisory firm and then have looked to identify high integrity founders that have high quality science backed that truly do what they say right."

Spencer, along with his two partners from Fifth Hammer, transitioned from advisory roles to full-time positions at Stemregen, leveraging their collective expertise to scale the company effectively.

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5. Defining Executive Roles: COO vs. Chief of Staff vs. Director of Operations

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around differentiating key executive roles within an organization.

[13:14] Spencer Matthews: "When I was Chief of staff, we actually had a COO as well. ... COO really, truly owning core functions of the business."

Spencer elucidates that while a Chief of Staff often serves as an advisor and a bridge across departments, a COO holds ownership over core business functions such as finance and supply chain. In contrast, a Director of Operations tends to focus more on day-to-day tactical tasks without the broader strategic oversight characteristic of a COO.

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6. Synchronizing the Executive Team in a Remote Environment

Managing a fully remote executive team presents unique challenges and opportunities. Spencer shares strategies employed at Stemregen to maintain synchronization and effective communication.

[20:46] Spencer Matthews: "We do monthly board meetings, we do weekly executive syncs, which is just, you know, us five. And then we do team weekly standups, and then we do department right stuff and one on ones and all that."

To mitigate the challenges of remote management, Stemregen implements a robust meeting cadence that includes:

• Annual Retreats: Facilitating in-person bonding and strategic planning.
• Monthly Board Meetings: Ensuring alignment with stakeholders.
• Weekly Executive Syncs: Keeping the core leadership team informed and coordinated.
• Team Standups and Department Meetings: Maintaining operational transparency and accountability.

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7. Implementing Effective Systems and Tools

Spencer emphasizes the importance of cadence cycles and the integration of systems from his previous ventures to streamline operations at Stemregen.

[28:04] Spencer Matthews: "The cadence I think is understated and underappreciated and never done. ... marriage of operations finance and marketing is way underrated."

By adopting and customizing cadence cycles, Stemregen ensures that meetings and operations remain dynamic and responsive to the company's evolving needs. Additionally, integrating operations with finance and marketing helps break down silos, fostering a more cohesive and efficient organizational structure.

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8. Collaborating with Fractional Finance Experts

Working with fractional finance professionals introduces both benefits and challenges. Spencer discusses the critical considerations for effectively partnering with these experts.

[30:12] Spencer Matthews: "Yes, it's a challenge. ... deeper vetting of do they truly have the experience that you need?"

Key takeaways include:

• Rigorous Vetting: Ensuring that fractional finance experts have specific experience relevant to Stemregen’s operations.
• Clear Expectations: Defining roles and deliverables to prevent misalignment and oversight issues.
• Continuous Monitoring: Regularly assessing performance to maintain financial integrity and accountability.

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9. Leadership Development and the Colby Index

Spencer highlights the use of the Colby Index Assessment to foster effective teamwork and leadership within Stemregen.

[34:48] Spencer Matthews: "We use Colby a lot. ... they have the strengths."

The Colby Index helps in understanding individual strengths and working styles, enabling better collaboration and communication among team members. This tool is particularly valuable in a remote setting, where clear communication is paramount.

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10. Personal Insights: The Art of Delegation

In a reflective segment, Spencer shares advice he would give to his younger self, emphasizing the importance of delegation.

[39:24] Spencer Matthews: "I would say, hey, learn how to delegate earlier because you would save yourself a lot of heartache earlier in the career for sure."

Cameron echoes this sentiment, discussing how effective delegation is crucial for scaling operations and developing a strong leadership team.

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Notable Quotes

• Spencer Matthews [05:04]: "Stem regen is all about helping boost your natural repair system and helping the release of stem cells from your bones to your Blood."
• Cameron Herold [11:12]: "It's to turn them into the Howard Schultz and the Ray Kroc and the Roy Disneys. It's to turn them into an iconic brand."
• Spencer Matthews [18:16]: "I believe that all success starts with clear expectations and that the role of, of a title and a job descript is an expectation setting."
• Cameron Herold [26:34]: "Jim Collins in the book Good to Great mentioned that we have to repeat what we're saying so often to our people so that the ideas have started to stick."
• Spencer Matthews [39:24]: "Learn how to delegate earlier because you would save yourself a lot of heartache early in the career for sure."

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Conclusion

Episode 442 offers a deep dive into the operational strategies and leadership philosophies of Spencer Matthews as COO of Stemregen. From defining executive roles and managing remote teams to implementing effective systems and fostering leadership development, Spencer shares valuable insights that can benefit aspiring COOs and seasoned executives alike. His emphasis on clear expectations, effective delegation, and strategic collaboration underscores the critical components of successful operational leadership.

For more insights and best practices from top COOs, visit COOAlliance.com.

Transcript

[Cameron Herold]

Hey, it's Cameron Herald, the host of the Second in Command podcast. Before we dive in, there's something you need to know. If you're a coo, VP Operations, or you're in any role where you're the second in command to the CEO, the COO alliance is the place for you. If you're the integrator to the visionary, you're going to want to join us. The COO alliance is the world's leading community for the second in command. We've had over 500 members like you join from 17 countries to grow their skills, connections and confidence. You'll get the tools, friendships, and a 10x guarantee to ensure that you get your money's worth. Go to cooalliance.com to learn more and see if you qualify. You can even book a free call with our team to ask questions. Now, let's jump into this week's episode.

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah, when I was Chief of staff, we actually had a COO as well. And some, you know, sometimes if before chief of staff kind of became a thing, I think COO played chief of staff a little bit. But I was really afforded in that opportunity to be an advisor to the ownership group and the executive group and kind of be the backup executive to any of the VPs. So I was in every department and really trying to bring that executive team together where I see COO really truly owning core functions of the business. Welcome to the Second in Command podcast produced by the COO alliance and brought to you by its founder, Cameron Herold. In the second in command podcast, we talk to top COOs who share the insights, strategies, and tactics that made them the chief behind the chief. And now here's your host, Cameron Herold.

[Cameron Herold]

All right, our guest today is STEM Regen COO Spencer Matthews. You are going to love this episode. Spencer said something early on in the episode that I kind of hinged on. He said, we joined the company. I'm like, well, what do you mean we? Like, I wanted to know when you joined the company. He said, yeah. He and two of his prior co founders joined STEM Regen as a way to actually scale up a proven brand with an amazing CEO in a space that they could actually execute on. He is the coo, was a prior CEO. He's also played the Chief of Staff role before and the Director of Ops role. We're going to go deep into all of those. So Spencer is a Idaho native where he resides with his wife and four kids, spends a lot of time with his family in the outdoors and in Sports. As the COO of STEM regen. He leverages 13 years of industry experience to guide the team towards ambitious growth goals. These guys are going to be a brand to watch. Additionally, as a managing partner of Fifth Hammer, he advises a limited number of other science backed nutraceutical companies. He was also instrumental in scaling a company from 0 to 50 million in ARR in just over four years, culminating in a $200 million exit. So he is the real deal. You'll love this episode. You'll love the lessons that he shares. You can also watch this episode on our Second Command podcast YouTube channel. This will be an episode to share with your team too. We'll see you on the inside. So, Spencer, welcome to the Second in Command podcast.

[Spencer Matthews]

Thanks Cameron. Pleasure to be here.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to this. I was at Dave Asprey's biohacking conference in Dallas back in May of this year. I used to coach Dave eight years ago and I was sitting in the audience with my wife who's really obsessed with biohacking and health. And we were watching your CEO Christian on stage. I think he was actually the Platinum or your company was the platinum sponsor of the biohacking conference. So I was really intrigued. I wanted to know, like, what is this all about? What's the business all about? Why is this guy a Platinum sponsor? My wife was kind of ashamed of me that I didn't know who he was and who the business was. She was all geeked out going, oh my gosh, I get to listen to him. Can you, can you let us know for the ones who aren't into the biohacking or maybe aren't on the forefront of science or of health yet. What it is about the business and the brand and how you got into that, you know, why you'd even be sponsoring something like Dave's event?

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah, I mean, stem regen in a nutshell is Christian's life's work of stem cell research. You know, the name kind of inherently applies that. But just like a common knowledge for body functions is we know, we know we have an immune system and we can do certain things to boost our immune system. We have a digestive system. I can do certain things to help write that function properly. Christian's been one of the scientists to help pioneer the discovery of our human repair system, that our body does repair and rejuvenate and stem cells are really the foundation of that. And so stem regen is all about helping boost your natural repair system and helping the release of stem cells from your bones to your Blood, so they can then go and migrate and repair where they need to. So that's the quick and dirty. I'm not the geek nerd that, you know, we'll dive deep into it.

[Cameron Herold]

But no, no, that's what we're about.

[Spencer Matthews]

And, and there's a place, right. You know, Dave, Dave Ashby is the father, the godfather of biohacking. So many people are into, you know, the longevity and the health span. And, you know, Christian's research and, and products have found how, how this helps with repair over time.

[Cameron Herold]

So and I guess for layman's terms, that's kind of what biohacking is, right? Is living longer and healthier. Right? Living longer and healthier and doing it in, in healthier ways without a doctor having to prescribe medicine. It's all the things that be proactive with our health. I had some, some hip issues about five years ago and was really fighting hard to not need to go get a hip replacement. It was an overuse injury from running and ski racing. And I, I had ozone injections and I got PRP injections and I had stem cell injections. But stem regen is different from stem cell injections. So what's the difference between what you guys are doing and what stem cells injecting into your bodies are?

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah, we work actually with a lot of stem cell therapy clinics that provide the injections. They're either sourcing stem cells or they're removing them from yourself and then injecting more acutely in a specific area. Right. Of injury or of the need to repair this. Our solution is a supplement, right. So you take it orally and it helps trigger the release of stem cells from your own bone marrow. So your bone marrow naturally converts stem cells. They go into the bloodstream, they circulate through the blood, and they go to where they're called, signaled to throughout the body for needed for repair. So that's a natural process that happens. As we age, the rate of that mobilization from the bone marrow to the blood declines. So this helps just improve that rate and increase that rate.

[Cameron Herold]

What's the kind of typical client that you go after? I mean, I would guess it's like athletes, people that are caring about their health. Is there an age that it works? Is there demographic that it works better for? Is there a kind of person that's living healthier or not?

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah, I mean, our umbrella target audience is the health conscious high achievers. Right. There's sub segments of that, like the biohackers, like the athletes. But there's also found just like 50 plus that are starting to become aware of age related diseases. Right. And want to, you know, kind of help improve that. And then a younger crowd. Right. 30 plus, typically most people until they hit their 30s, they don't experience the phenomenon of aging. Right. They're like, feel invincible and they can do everything. And then you hit 33 like me, and then you have five injuries and you're like, holy crap, I can't even like pick my kids up anymore. So we typically don't really see super young people, even though there is benefit and some, you know, harder core athletes like for repair and recovery, they will. But generally it's kind of those, those populations of either currently struggling with age related diseases or, you know, overcoming, you know, acute or long term injuries and then just preventative, you know, caring about their longevity.

[Cameron Herold]

You kind of nailed, you kind of nailed the age for me too. I was in my mid-30s, I was like 36, 37, 38 when I was playing on two Ultimate Frisbee teams. And I ultimately create. Oh man. But when, when you're, when you're not stacked up against 21 year olds as a 38 year old, you start realizing like, I'm not as young as I used. I can't like go ho and fly out and try and catch the disc and land and break my actually nephews off to the worlds for the third or fourth time this year, this summer.

[Spencer Matthews]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah, it's a great sport. But that was when I started noticing that the ground is a little further away than it used to be.

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah. Okay.

[Cameron Herold]

So we know what stem regen is. We kind of understand why you're doing it. And the proactive side, flip the switch for us a little bit and talk to us about you getting involved in the business because you've been there as the coo. Now, when did you join the organization?

[Spencer Matthews]

Spent about a year and a half. So we came into Stemmergen June, July of 2023. So.

[Cameron Herold]

And you just said we. What does that mean?

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah, so I have some business partners. We run a advisory firm called Fifth Hammer. And there's three of us. One is more of a technology expert and executive expert. One is a marketing expert. And then I'm. My strengths are lie more on the operational. We all operated together in a previous nutraceutical company called Cellcore Biosciences and Microbe formulas. And we were founding team members there and helped build that from essentially 0 to 50 million ARR. And then helped provide an exit there. So we've since Left that business in 2022 post exit, formed our own advisory firm and then have looked to identify high integrity founders that have high quality science backed that truly do what they say right. In markets that are are growing to see can we do it again.

[Cameron Herold]

I like it. All right. So very. I was the, the COO for a company called 1-800-got junk and I scaled them from 2 million to 106 million in six years. That was the fourth company that I'd built. When I left there 17 years ago, I became like the back pocket COO. I was kind of in other CEOs back pockets. They'd pull me out to help them. That's kind of what Christian did. Is he, he. But he didn't just find you. He found like a stable of three of you that can bring in that expertise. Are you all full time fractional or is there a bit of a blend?

[Spencer Matthews]

We started fractional and just to see. And two of us just started at first and then we, we eventually transitioned full time. We saw the opportunity, you know, Christian saw the benefit and, and Christian was able actually to also make the transition out of the CEO spot and into the chief Science Officer spot and really operate as founder and refocus back on science and more product and more education. And so yeah, we operate as CEO, CMO and CEO and are fully dedicated to helping STEM or gen grow.

[Cameron Herold]

I love this. All right, so he's. He's there kind of as the chief science and kind of the vision guy as well. Is he the technical evangelist as well or are all of you kind of evangelists for the brand?

[Spencer Matthews]

We all are, but he's the front line if we will that we put out and that we do most of our marketing around. For sure.

[Cameron Herold]

It's interesting. I've always Talked that the COO's role and I wrote a book recently called the second in Command and in the book the Second in Command, I said one of the core roles of the COO is to make the CEO iconic. It's to turn them into the Howard Schultz and the Ray Kroc and the Roy Disneys. It's to turn them into. And we have to make them look good. And then internally they need to make us look good because we're always rolling out the tough decisions. Right. How do you rationalize that when you know you are, you know you're smart, your two partners know you're smart, but then you're making him that iconic brand. Is there ever, hey, like what about me or does do you even care about that stuff anymore.

[Spencer Matthews]

I think earlier on in my career, there was some elements of that. I mean, I've been second in command for the last decade, you know, in many businesses as Chief of staff or. Or COO or Director of Ops. Right. So I've kind of always not, you know, played that role. So I think earlier on in my career, I was kind of like, oh, I want some of the attention and love. But I also just knew, like, what I was doing made it all possible. So I just. Acknowledgement there from the CEO, Right. Or from the founder was always enough for me, like, that. I didn't need it from. I didn't need it from anybody else.

[Cameron Herold]

It's very. It's very Cheryl Sandberg. Sheryl Sandberg was the COO for Mark Zuckerberg for 15 years. And all she needed was Mark going, beauty. She's like, awesome.

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

And I was just. I was the same at 1-800-got junk. I just didn't. I didn't need it. So you just said something I want to actually ask on. I almost said double click. I hate that term. But I'm not gonna say I want to double click. I want to ask you about something. You mentioned that you'd had the Chief of Staff role. You've had a Director of Ops role, you've had the COO role. One of the most played episodes from the Second Command podcast was delineating between this chief of staff and the coo. But I'd love your take on it. What was the Chief of staff? What's the difference between the Chief of staff and a Director of Operations and a COO from your vantage point?

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah, when I was Chief of staff, we actually had a COO as well. And some, you know, sometimes if before chief of staff kind of became a thing, I think COO played chief of staff a little bit, but I was really afforded in that opportunity to be an advisor to the ownership group and the executive group and kind of be the backup executive to any of the VPs. So I, you know, was in every department and really trying to bring that executive team together where I see, like, COO really, truly owning core functions of the business. Right. Whether it's finance or supply chain or. Right. Those elements, CIFA staff. I owned more project management, and I weaved into every area of the business. I owned more the company cadence of how and when and why we met. And it kept that always evolving to. To the. To the needs of the company and, you know, driving board meeting and driving that stuff. So it was. It was definitely different. Now, you know, coming into the CEO role, I'm blending a lot of that, pulling some of that, but I am also hiring and training a new Chief of staff as well. So yeah, I think it sounds like.

[Cameron Herold]

You'Re blending it in now as some skills and some systems that you're bringing in, but you're, you're not doing it as a second role either.

[Spencer Matthews]

Exactly.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah. Well, and it's interesting because the true Chief of Staff role started in a government and it was actually like you.

[Spencer Matthews]

Were the Chief of Staff to the.

[Cameron Herold]

President, chief of staff to a governor, and you were there to control calendar projects and communication flow, but you weren't overseeing stuff so much as like making sure that all of those things were all happening. And I think there's been a, almost like a misuse of the term where people have given the Chief of Staff title to somebody who's really more like a Director of Operations and they're not even doing a Chief of Staff role at all. So. So now talk about what's the difference between a Director of Operations and a Chief Operating officer. Where do you think the. What, what does somebody have to do to not deserve the CEO title? But what's a real C level in ops doing more than a director in OPS tends to be doing?

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah, I think part of it is size of company and you know, size of responsibility. But at the director level, I was definitely still more in just the day to day tactical.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah, right.

[Spencer Matthews]

Getting, getting the stuff done, putting the process and system in place. And now at the C level, it's a lot more strategy involvement, looking at the roadmap ahead. Right. Hey, here's our financial forecast. Do we even have the elements we need to hit that from. So, you know, a director level, that's really the biggest difference in my mind.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah, I agree. I think that the C level brings in a level of strategic insight, P and L responsibility and autonomy that they can actually do the job without somebody delegating it all to them. And they probably bring proactive pieces.

[Spencer Matthews]

Yes.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah. And then they also bring people and partners into the company with them. Like you come along and you bring in all these other people that used to work with you because you've got that suite. Whereas a Director of ops doesn't know any real other talent to bring with them. So a director level usually is being told what to do, they're being delegated to do and yeah, they are more tactical. And I think companies have to be very careful giving you're a true C level. I think companies have to be Very careful giving out a chief operating or a chief marketing or a chief technology title to people that are director level or manager level or maybe VP level. And I think we've had a lot of title inflation that the banks started kind of back in the late 90s when they gave away vice president titles to everybody as a marketing tool. That's what it started.

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah. No, and if the. And you're spot on. If the individual isn't experienced enough to come with insights and recommendations of here what, here's what we should do, or here's what's worked in the past, or here's what we should try. If there's not that strategic input, then it's not an executive.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah, yeah. I remember my roommate in college was. We were having dinner in Toronto. It was probably 1998. So it was like 25 years ago, 26 years ago. And he said he'd just become the vice President of derivatives for Bear Stearns. I'm like, whoa. He goes, he goes, it's a marketing thing. He goes, I'm seven layers below the CEO. I'm like, what? He goes, oh, yeah. It's like vice president, senior vice president, executive vice president. Like, he goes, I'm seven layers below the CEO. He goes, it's a marketing tool. So that when I call somebody and say I'm the vice president, they take me seriously. And the reason was email had started. Right? It was when email was coming out. 97, 98, we were all getting email addresses. So now there was a marketing thing attached to your name before. It'd be like, hey, it's Bob. Who the fuck is Bob? How'd you get my number? So, yeah, so anyway, well, our CEO.

[Spencer Matthews]

Says the same thing. He's not a big believer in titles or job descriptions and we've battled on that. But you know, his belief is very similar in that, hey, titles are about serving outside individuals and serving your own career. Like outside of that. Right. It's.

[Cameron Herold]

Well, there. I think there is.

[Spencer Matthews]

That's important to him. That's his opinion.

[Cameron Herold]

But yeah. Okay, what's yours?

[Spencer Matthews]

I believe that all success starts with clear expectations and that the role of, of a title and a job descript is an expectation setting. So I very much believe in it.

[Cameron Herold]

You know, that's what I. That's exactly where I am. I think it's expectations, clarity of communication so people understand where do we fit? Not like, do as I tell you. That's like 1970s. It's more just understanding. Yeah. Job descriptions, roles and responsibilities, who owns metrics, titles Help people to understand.

[Spencer Matthews]

Right. Even compensation expectations. Right. Like all of it.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

[Spencer Matthews]

Yes.

[Cameron Herold]

I think a lot of people gave away titles not caring, and it came back to bite them in the ass too.

[Spencer Matthews]

Right. Yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

So in the chief operating officer role, you come in with these two kind of former partners. One in marketing, I think you said, one in it. How do the three of you stay in sync? And how does the leadership team stay in sync? And then how do you stay in sync with the CEO, kind of chief technical evangelist. I can't remember what you call it.

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah, yeah. So we kind of have like a, you know, a pyramid, if you will, of CEO mia, CEO cmo. And then we have Christian as founder and chief science officer, and then his wife actually is our co founder and chief brand officer. And so, you know, we kind of make up the core. We have a board, a chairman, and some investors. But, you know, so. And we're a fully remote company, which is actually a first experience for me. I've done. I've done hybrid, I've done in person. Right. But this is. This is fully remote for the first time. And at first, I'm not going to lie, like, it's. It was challenging. Right. We needed more person time earlier on. I don't think we recognized that. And so now we have. But, you know, our cadence is not unfamiliar to. To you or to others that are more seasoned. But we do, you know, an annual retreat, we do planning sessions, we do team sessions, we do exec sessions. As part of that, we do monthly board meetings, we do weekly executive syncs, which is just, you know, us five. And then we do team weekly standups, and then we do department right stuff and one on ones and all that.

[Cameron Herold]

But walk us through your executive sync. I'm curious how that runs and what your meeting rhythm is there, because I think that's a really important one. There's. There's a whole idea of the L10 meetings that was popularized by Gino Weckman in the book Traction with part of the eos. Different.

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

What's your. Your kind of executive sync?

[Spencer Matthews]

Really? We try to make that one.

[Cameron Herold]

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[Spencer Matthews]

Heavier tactical because it's week to week and we hold space more monthly for a strategic interaction. So this is reviewing, hey, open, open partnerships and open initiatives. You know, what do we need to get approval on, what do we need to advance forward, those kind of buy ins. Right at the beginning with Christian, the founder, right, he was calling all the shots, do it, making all the decisions. And so bringing three high level people into the business was valuable. But at first like he was also like, holy cow, you guys are making a lot of decisions. And some of these I maybe I wasn't aware of. So part of it's just communicating, hey, here's what we're doing this week. Here's where we're headed. Right. So part of it's just that we. Yep, yep. Staying and seeing like racy. We like racy a lot. So part of that's just the eye and racy, you know, responsible, accountable, consulted and informed. It's just informing across the team. Here's, here's what's going on. Yeah, so it's, we typically review that, throw agenda items on and it lasts hour to hour and a half. But it's increased reps for us to continue to build trust. Right. And to increase communication when we aren't in person. Right.

[Cameron Herold]

I like that, I like that.

[Spencer Matthews]

You're nothing too fancy.

[Cameron Herold]

No, it doesn't need to be. The model that I put in place for our leadership team, we called it our war meeting, which is our weekly action review. Each person did their five minute update of what's going well, what's not going well, what you're working on and where you're stuck. And that pulse from everybody was really powerful. And then we looked at the metrics, right. We went through the leadership team dashboard and then we went and tried to help unstick people. That was just our thing. Right. So that was beautiful. Pulse. So the fact that you're all remote, can you talk to that? You said this is the first time you've ever been on a remote team. How?

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah, Fully remote.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah, yeah. What, what's it, what, what are the upsides? What's the risks? Are you missing any part of the in person or how are you working around. Around that?

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah. Upsides is. Well, well, yeah. I mean there's a lot of personal flexibility when it comes fully remote that I think people really enjoy. Right. Embrace and I think that's why it's become a huge trend. And so I mean, I'm not going to state that I appreciate that. Right. But I think the risks are just that of communication between slack email and product management tools. It can get really easy to get lost or to get overwhelmed or to get missed or to just think, oh, I don't need to share that and just get, go in the day to day and roll things forward. So I think that that's a big risk of not taking a easy to get in the weeds and not take the. Create the space to take the step back to prepare the strategy and to communicate the strategy. I also feel like a risk with remote is you need a little bit more repetition. We found with the team, you know, clarity often comes through repetition. As much as sometimes I struggle with that as a leader, like just repeating it and you know, and I felt like with remote there's needed to be a little bit more of that. I think we're lucky that we have a team that's committed and a founder that's committed to creating in person. So we do gather the entire team and it's not a big team team of 15, but quarterly we get, we do get together in person for a few days and meet and you know, he, he sees that as an investment that we would be paying in rent otherwise. Right. So I think that that's, that is rare for a remote company. And then I'm, I'm a little lucky too because you know, we have a few core people here in the Boise, Idaho area. The CEO, the CMO and myself are all here. So we get together at least once a week. Right. So it's, it's kind of more hybrid for us where the rest of the company is kind of remote but you know, was ClickFunnels. Boise ClickFunnels. Yeah, it's a big one. Boise Convert. ConvertKit Convert Kit. Yeah, convert kids here on the health side. Bodybuilding.com was the biggest one, the first one that kind of really blew up.

[Cameron Herold]

And you know what? Bodybuilding.com was Bryna and her husband Brian is now married to a really good friend of mine in Scottsdale, Arizona, Max Hansen. Yeah, Briana just sent me a note About Max's birthday the other day. Yeah. She and her husband had built bodybuilding, sold it like 10 years ago. Russell and I were part of a mastermind community called Genius Networks. I met Russell years ago.

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah, yeah, Joe.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah, Joe Polish's group. But I'm trying to remember. This is like a weird segue moment that add like. So in Boise, there's like a Holiday Inn near the highway. It's kind of in the middle of nowhere, but there's this amazing restaurant kind of on the water right near it, like, is Barbacoa. Barbacoa. There you go.

[Spencer Matthews]

Yep.

[Cameron Herold]

Awesome place.

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah. Phenomenal restaurant. Yeah. No, I'm glad you got to experience it. It's like a little museum in a. Yeah, it's great.

[Cameron Herold]

I was there speaking to the YPO chapter in Boise and they put me up at this. I'm like, why do you hate me? Like, why did you put me in the place? And the holidaying guy's like, oh, there's a restaurant over here. I'm like, great. I'm taking a recommendation from the guy at the Holiday Inn front desk. Like, this is not going to be good. I had three out of five meals at Barbacoa over two days. I love the place. Yeah. I'm obsessed.

[Spencer Matthews]

It's phenomenal.

[Cameron Herold]

It's great.

[Spencer Matthews]

That's fun.

[Cameron Herold]

Boys is a cool spot. Okay.

[Spencer Matthews]

I'm glad you've experienced it.

[Cameron Herold]

You know, Jim Collins in the book Good to Great mentioned that we have to repeat what we're saying so often to our people so that the ideas have started to stick. And it's only when they're making fun of us have the ideas started to stick. So I feel your pain, though, on the repetitions. Like I told you, like, yeah, but I didn't remember. Or there were 80 things coming and.

[Spencer Matthews]

You got to put it in a document and you got to, you know, say it verbally and you got to mind it in a one on one. And so we've tried to utilize multiple mediums. Right. Of communication to provide that repetition. But also just I've had to, you know, remind myself like, you're going to be a broken record. Accept it. Like, just be the broken record. Embrace it. And that's done wonders for us. So.

[Cameron Herold]

And I think that's a skill that you can kind of trickle down through the organization too. Right. And. And so entrepreneurs get so frustrated with that. They don't understand that, you know, our job is to grow people. Right? To grow their skills, to grow their confidence, to grow their connection to Keep them connected with us and our ideas and it never get, that's not easy. But to get frustrated with them because they don't know or they're busy. It's good that you're actually, you're okay with that. Like you, you recognize.

[Spencer Matthews]

Well, I think it's natural, right? I mean I get frustrated having to tell my kids to do something twice like, you know, so it's natural. The same things with, with team members or direct reports. I think it's just part of the culture, but I don't think it's an excuse not to do it.

[Cameron Herold]

You know, what are some of the systems that you learned when you were building your past company that you've brought over with you? Or what are the kind of. Some of the systems you ported in.

[Spencer Matthews]

That cadence cycle and fine tuning it and customizing it? I actually was part of Alex Charfen's billionaire code Mastermind in my first experience as a director of ops and that was kind of where I got, you know, some of the foundational training and then really, you know, put into practice at that first organization, but really fine tuned it at Microbe and Cellcore. So the cadence I think is understated and underappreciated and never done. And I think that that's where people go wrong is they think, oh, I have a weekly meeting and I have a. But it doesn't mean like it shouldn't change over time.

[Cameron Herold]

Right.

[Spencer Matthews]

Like you should consider how do we refresh this? And hey, we're hitting a lull so we need to change things up. So I think that that's a big one. I think the marriage of operations finance and marketing is way underrated. Speak to that if you, if you can. Those are areas along with sales that often become siloed and that speak different languages. Right. And finance looks at the, the metrics one way and marketing looks at them another way. And there's been some good voices in the e commerce industry like Taylor Holiday of Common Thread and others that are trying to help bring, bring those conversations together. But I think those challenges of being able to align on contribution margin, right, to, to give the marketing team the freedom to run and sprint when they need to without having to like always look at coming back to the financials and the financial team slowing the marketing team down. So right now as CEO, you know, we're just using fractional finance resources so we don't have a cfo. So that's falling on me. Right? And there's been, I've, I've enjoyed that. That's not my, you know, background and expertise, but I've enjoyed that because I feel like I've been able to empower the marketing team a little bit, but also maintain our profitability, help them sprint a little faster.

[Cameron Herold]

So can you talk about working with a fractional finance person? How do you work with them? How do you keep them kind of lined up with what you want them focused on? How do you not let them go down the 17 rabbit holes that, you.

[Spencer Matthews]

Know, Cameron, it's a challenge. You know, it all comes back to me again, expectations. We've, we've cycled through. Honestly, we've cycled through two or three fractionals to, to see we're in, you know, two to three months with our current partner. I think part of it is deeper vetting of do they truly have the experience that you need? Not that another business like you needs or that like you has done? Because people can say, oh, yeah, I've done supplement businesses or I've done e commerce businesses. And then you think, oh, they've got, they, they know what they're doing, but breaking it down into very specific scenarios or, hey, here's monthly journal entries that we need. Have you ever done anything even remotely, you know, similar to this?

[Cameron Herold]

Can you show me?

[Spencer Matthews]

Exactly, exactly. So that was really helpful with us failing a few times with some fractional finance. And then we've had a good rhythm with this new group, but having to get a little bit more specific in what you need and what you're requesting has been. Been the best bet so far for us.

[Cameron Herold]

So, you know, I think that so many companies do themselves a disservice that they get very sloppy with hiring fractional people. They get very sloppy with hiring freelancers. They get very slopp with, with hiring outsourced firms to come and do stuff. It's like, oh, I used to use this email marketing firm. Oh, good, I'll use them. Stop. Put them through the same rigorous interview process that you would do to hire a person. Right. Or, oh, they're just a fraction. They've always been. When we'll just use them. No, stop. Like, do they match your core values? Do they write skill set? How are they to communicate with you? Like them? Like, would you want to hang out with them? Do they have this. Can they do what you need them to do? Yeah, nobody, nobody does that. So you had a couple of missteps. How did you know that the missteps were happening with your fractional finance person?

[Spencer Matthews]

It was always like pulling teeth, right? Babysitting if. Unless we Asked and kind of had the thumb. It just wasn't happening. Right. And in a hyper growth environment, when you're growing 20% month over month, like, you don't always have your eye that close. Right. And so we missed it for a little bit. And then we come back and we're like, hey, there's six months of journal entries not done. Like, what's going on?

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah. So I spoke to somebody today in Dubai that had. Didn't have the financial oversight, and they had. I don't even know what to call it, but some fake invoices sent over, and they were so perfectly done that someone on their finance team paid the fake invoices and they ended up going to this bank account. So then when the client called and said, hey, we haven't been paid, Spencer's like, yeah, we paid you to the tune of like 2.5 million bucks. And he's like, like, no, we've never been paid five. But they'd hacked into their email system and had been creating these fake invoices and then dropping it into a bank account. And so, yeah, 2.5 million bucks. They ended up getting it back. But because. Because he's friends with the CEO of the bank, like, it was crazy town.

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah, we just got a fraud invoice that was very similar to that. It was real legit, a communication with our CEO. All this packaged up 40k. And luckily we've put in some of those checks and balances like that. We, you know, we get approval before it and some of that and we avoided it. But yeah, fraud's fraud. Broad's getting good.

[Cameron Herold]

I just said. I just said I set a wire for a CEO who's getting me to coach them, and they've got their COO coming into the CEO Alliance. They have their CEO coming to our Vancouver CEO alliance event. So it's an expensive invoice for like, all of this stuff for the course of a year. And the. His finance team sent notes that we need something from the bank or some authorization for the wire. So I sent like a loom video from me. Thankfully, that's really me. And they also said, and, oh, by the way, like, I'm. I'm like 100 yards away from where your CTO has a place in Citywalk in Dubai. She's like, okay, you're good. Thanks for that. But like, yeah, it's crazy. You got to inspect what you expect. So you mentioned Alex Charfen's mastermind. Alex and I were in a couple of masterminds together. We were one called Mastermind Talks, another called the Genius Network. Great guy Sharp. Are you still working on your skill sets as a CEO, and if so, where and how?

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah, that's a beautiful question. More recently in this role, I've been diving deeper into the finance side because that's a function I haven't owned until now. I've been around. Right. I'm not a stranger to it, but I haven't fully owned it. So that's kind of where most of my, I guess, up skill, up leveling has been focused right now. And I haven't necessarily found one group that I've latched on to in that arena. We. We use Colby a lot. I don't know if you're familiar with Colby Index assessment. You know, I'm a big, big.

[Cameron Herold]

I know Kathy and David Colby quite well. Both of them.

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah. So I'm a big fact finder. So I love just.

[Cameron Herold]

What's your profile?

[Spencer Matthews]

I'm a 7, 7, 6, 2. So you're pretty good. I initiate as a fact finder and then I follow through. And then, yeah.

[Cameron Herold]

If anyone who doesn't know Colby, there's the four numbers. The first is called fact finder, and that's a person who starts projects by asking a lot of questions. The second, I've told Kathy Colby and David Colby they've misnamed it. It shouldn't be called follow through because there's nothing to do with following through on things. The second high number means you like to put systems and playbooks and sops.

[Spencer Matthews]

More systems.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah, A checklist to start something. The third is called Quick Start. It means what it is like, you start quickly and plan later. That's very entrepreneurial. And then the last one I said they've missed. Last one is called Implementer, and that's a person who needs the tools or the physical models to then start something. So, yeah, you're very. Almost all of the members of the COO alliance, we have a large mastermind community, 17 countries, and it's all COOs. No entrepreneurs are allowed to be in the room. They're all very high Fact Finder and Follow Through. Almost none are very high. In the third number, we have a couple third number, but they tend to be like a CO founder coo. So they still have a little bit of entrepreneurial. Mine will blow you away. Mine's 4393. I'm like a very entrepreneur, but I've been the COO of three companies, but they were entrepreneurial startup companies. So I had to be that entrepreneurial that's cool. And I just used a lot.

[Spencer Matthews]

It makes sense also for where you've come and what you're doing now. Right.

[Cameron Herold]

Like, yeah, so I love the COO space, but I'm kind of the entrepreneur in residence for them, right? Yeah. I love the Colby profile. Do you guys use Colby with all of your employees and do you use it for recruiting or do you use it once you've hired them to learn how to work better with them?

[Spencer Matthews]

We haven't used it for recruiting. I'm not opposed to that. We just haven't made that investment. We do, we do require it as part of our onboarding. And then we, we've used some of their, like, team analysis tools, which are really powerful. Yeah, they're a to A comparisons, their coaching reports, you know, so, yeah, I.

[Cameron Herold]

Don'T, I don't like, I don't like any of the personality profiles for recruiting. I think they can actually bias people in the wrong direction. And I have some data points that can prove that. I absolutely use it for onboarding and I absolutely use it for getting to know people. And the A to a to match is a really powerful one. That's when you do like a 30 minute call or an hour call with people at Colby. They take one person's Colby profile and the other person's Colby profile and they teach them how to walk and talk together.

[Spencer Matthews]

It's beautiful.

[Cameron Herold]

So we have all of the CEOs of our CEO alliance members have to do a Colby and all the CEOs have to. Because then I want them to learn how to like, yeah, guys, it's like men are not hairy versions of women, right? It's like men are from. Women are from Venus and, and CEOs.

[Spencer Matthews]

CEO, they're from Mars. And CEOs. Beautiful, right?

[Cameron Herold]

So like, like, entrepreneurs have to slow down a little bit. We have to say, do you have any more questions? What else would you like to know? And then COOs need to not give all the data to the entrepreneur. We need to give them the sound bites. Executive summary. So, yeah, it's.

[Spencer Matthews]

And I think that's the other Ms. Honestly, that Colby, they emphasize the numbers a lot. It's not about the numbers, it's about the strengths.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah.

[Spencer Matthews]

Right. And my strength is a quick start is to modify, whereas an initiating quick start, their strength is to quick start. Right? And I think that's been my luck dealing with a lot of initiating quick starts is I can modify so I can adapt. I'm not low. Quick start to where you just react. Right. And push Back. But yeah, Colby's been invaluable.

[Cameron Herold]

It's even how I can actually interview people is I'm just genuinely curious about the role. I know the role of coo. I've been around it. I've got like a community for eight years of CoS from all over the world and I've been in it. But I'm genuinely curious. So I don't bother sitting and reading your bio and learning lots about you and doing all the research. I don't need to. I just need to show up and be really curious. Right. And really pay attention. But if I was a high fact finder, I'd probably spend, you know, an hour worth of time getting to know somebody really doing the research and thinking it might make some of the interviews a little bit better. I don't know.

[Spencer Matthews]

But it would mostly just take a lot more of your time.

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah, but they would probably, they wouldn't miss some of the stuff. They wouldn't like. Oh, shit, I didn't realize. Right. But for me, because I'm in my natural style, I'm in my unique ability, it just resonates better. So it is about just understanding each other. I'm glad you guys use Colby. I think it's a really powerful tool and highly encourage it. All right, I want to go back and give yourself some advice. If you were going to give the younger 21, 22 year old Spencer some advice, what advice would you tell yourself that you know, to be true today?

[Spencer Matthews]

I think one of the things I'm still working on and, and I've always taken pride in though, is I'm good at getting done right. High executive function and that, that can be a good superpower. But also like the, the other side of that coin is it often prevents you from becoming really good at delegating and leveraging a team. Right. And so I think I, if, if I was looking back, I would say, hey, learn how to delegate earlier because you would save yourself a lot of heartache earlier in the career for sure, you know?

[Cameron Herold]

Yeah, it's. Well, it is our. When our biggest strength is our biggest weakness. Right. Because we're really good at getting stuff done, we don't tend to delegate. I'm guilty as charged. Same thing I re. I learned, well, not recently. I learned years ago that my to do list doesn't have my name on it. It doesn't say Cameron's to do list, it says to do list. So now what I try to do.

[Spencer Matthews]

Is this is what needs to get done well first.

[Cameron Herold]

Does it even need to get done. Like, can I just cross it off and no, it doesn't. Because sometimes, like it delegate stuff that you know what, we don't need to do that. So can I kill it? And then who can I delegate it to? And I'll find myself going, I can't delegate it because they don't have the skills. No, I'm gonna delegate it to them and I'm gonna spend the time giving them the skills. I'd rather spend time giving them the skills versus spending the time doing the work. But that, you know, that's a skill set. But whatever.

[Spencer Matthews]

Yeah, it is. It is. All right, so that's one. That's one I need to spend more time with.

[Cameron Herold]

But I like it. Well, Spencer Matthews, the COO from STEM Regen, really appreciate you spending time with us today. Thank you for sharing all your expertise and wisdom and we'll catch you on the flip side.

[Spencer Matthews]

Likewise, Cameron.

[Cameron Herold]

Appreciate it.

[Spencer Matthews]

You've been listening to Second In Command, brought to you by COO alliance founder Cameron Herold. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to like, share and subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and our other podcast streaming platforms. For more best practices from industry leading COOs, visit COOAlliance.com.