Having Emotionally Immature Parents | #070 Replay

Summary

Secondhand Therapy | #070 Replay

PonyBear Studios
Release Date: January 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

This replay episode of Secondhand Therapy features hosts Louie Paoletti and Rob Maloney (aka Mama Bear, King of Two Things, Maloney Pony) reflecting on vulnerability, emotional support, shame, childhood conditioning, grief, and the ongoing practice of healing. Broadcasting from their Los Angeles studio amid a wild windstorm, the pair offer candid, relatable, and often hilarious accounts of their therapy journeys, with a raw discussion of why facing personal growth is both necessary and incredibly difficult.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Mismatch of Vulnerability and Nervous System Response

• Louie's Struggle: Louie opens up about the internal conflict of wanting to be vulnerable but feeling foolish and shameful in those moments—a mismatch between intellectual understanding and embodied emotion.

  • Quote:
    "I have this deep, deep desire to be vulnerable...but the feeling I have of vulnerability, it feels so silly and it feels foolish. And that mismatch is so frustrating because I know vulnerability is a great thing, and I know it's something I want...but it feels so foolish and shameful."
    (Louie, 05:59-06:45)

• Rob's Prompt: Rob asks why Louie wants vulnerability so much, sparking a deep self-reflection on identity and relational growth.

  • Quote:
    "Because I want to be a better partner and a better friend and a better uncle and a better brother and a better son and a better self."
    (Louie, 07:20-07:29)

• On Healing: Louie recognizes healing as a continuous process, not a destination.

  • *"Healing in general is a practice. It's not a destination."
    (Louie, 08:05-08:13)

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2. Asking for Emotional Support—Definitions and Barriers

• Defining Emotional Support: Louie confesses he doesn't even know what asking for emotional support looks like; he’s unsure what to request and often avoids it due to fear of being offered unwanted solutions.

  • Quote:
    "If someone said, 'Hey, I need emotional support,' I would go, 'What exactly do you need from me?'"
    (Louie, 09:55-10:08)

• Childhood Origin: Louie traces his discomfort to a childhood where “there was no time for feelings.” Everything was solution-oriented.

  • Quote:
    "When I was a kid, there was no time for feelings. It was, let's figure it out."
    (Louie, 11:55-12:13)

• What He Really Wants: Louie realizes that when seeking support, he wants acceptance, not fixes:

  • Quote:
    "What I want is for...somebody to tell me, like, 'Hey, there's nothing wrong with you.'"
    (Louie, 11:09-11:29)

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3. Shame and Childhood Conditioning

• Root of Shame: The conversation pivots to the formation of shame, focusing on two parental types: emotionally immature parents who can’t meet children’s emotional needs, and over-involved parents who constantly fix problems.

  • Quote:
    "Children of emotionally immature parents and children of parents who are always fixing things for them...later in adulthood typically have a great deal of shame."
    (Louie, 17:06-18:18)

• Personal Histories: Rob and Louie connect their own upbringings to these types—Rob’s mom always fixed things, fueling his adult shame; Louie experienced emotional neglect and struggles with not feeling worthy of care or love.

  • Quote:
    "All I see is Mom isn't meeting my needs—there's something wrong with me."
    (Louie, 18:28-18:41)

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4. Grief, Loss, and Homesickness

• Rob on Grieving His Mom: Rob shares his experience of grief as a deep homesickness, not sadness.

  • Quote:
    "It's not grief...it is the feeling of, of being homesick...when I think of my mother, it's not necessarily that I'm sad or...sad in the ways of grief...it is that aching pain of just being like, I just want to be home.”
    (Rob, 34:00-35:21)

• Existential Loneliness vs. Love: Louie and Rob debate the concept of “dying alone” and the role love plays in being truly accompanied at the end of life.

  • Quote:
    "Even if you know, like, I had a good life and people liked me...that's not the same as being surrounded by love in the room.”
    (Rob, 30:26-31:43)

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5. Control, Trust, and Accepting Help

• The Perfectionism Trap: Louie acknowledges his need to control tasks and intense frustration with mistakes—both his own and others’.

  • Quote:
    "I'll just do it so I know it's done...But that feels deeply unsafe. Deeply unsafe. A mistake? You gotta be fucking kidding me?"
    (Louie, 39:40-41:04)

• Compassion for Self: Despite finding it hard to relinquish control or accept mistakes, Louie is learning to approach his inner critic with compassion.

  • Quote:
    "When I look at that part of myself that struggles to let go of things, I do feel a lot of compassion toward that part...All I want to tell it is like, oh, it doesn't have to be like this, man. Like, it's okay...But that part's not ready to hear it yet."
    (Louie, 44:30-45:50)

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6. Accepting Love & Trust Issues

• Worthy of Love: Louie reflects on the vulnerability needed to accept love, identifying a deep-rooted belief that accepting love is “foolish.”

  • Quote:
    "I've always struggled to accept love...You have to be very vulnerable to accept love. I think that's more of my struggle...I'd be a fool to accept your love. That's foolish."
    (Louie, 25:32-26:06)

• Trust as a Component: He realizes that mistrust is embedded in his inability to delegate or accept care.

  • Quote:
    "It's in the cocktail, baby.”
    (Louie, 26:25-26:35)

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7. ADHD, Capability, and Academic Experiences

• Rob’s School Story: Rob discusses how undiagnosed ADHD led to his mother “taking over” and how that contributed to shame and doubts about his competence.
  • Quote:
    "I don’t think my mother knew how or what to do with me. And I’m not hyper ADHD. I was never, like, bouncing off the walls...I just didn’t give a fuck about [school]...A lot of the times my mother did those things for me, and that shame comes from them not thinking that I was able to do it."
    (Rob, 51:31-56:49)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Healing:
  "Healing in general is a practice. It's not a destination." – Louie (08:05)
• On Emotional Support:
  "All I want is for somebody to tell me, like, hey, there's nothing wrong with you.” – Louie (11:09)
• On Shame:
  "So for me as a child, all I feel is, there's something wrong with me. My mom isn't hearing me." – Louie (18:28)
• On Grief:
  "It is that aching pain of just being like, I just want to be home. And I know I'll never have that." – Rob (35:21)
• On Control and Mistakes:
  "But that feels deeply unsafe. Deeply unsafe. A mistake? You gotta be fucking kidding me?" – Louie (41:04)
• On Accepting Love:
  "I'd be a fool to accept your love. That's foolish." – Louie (26:06)
• On Self-Compassion:
  "All I want to tell it is like, oh, it doesn't have to be like this, man." – Louie (45:36)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:59] – Louie unpacks the mismatch between desire for vulnerability and feelings of shame
• [09:55] – Struggling to define and request emotional support
• [17:06] – Origins of shame from parenting styles
• [34:00] – Rob describes grief as homesickness rather than classic sadness
• [39:40] – Louie on control, delegation, and underlying sense of insecurity
• [44:30] – Dialogue on compassion toward inner struggles and incremental progress
• [51:31] – Rob’s ADHD history and the development of shame
• [53:59] – School and capability—shame from parental over-involvement

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Memorable Moments & Tone

The episode is marked by frequent self-aware humor, recurring jokes about their own therapy experiences (“King of two things”, “That’s the show!”), and affectionate ribbing between the hosts. The conversation is honest and vulnerable, breaking up heavy moments with comic relief, and modeling real friendship and supportive dialogue.

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Episode Takeaways

• Healing is ongoing; vulnerability and self-acceptance are lifelong practices.
• Shame often stems from unmet emotional needs or over-involved caregivers in childhood.
• Accepting love and help requires vulnerability and trust, which can be especially hard for those with histories of shame or perfectionism.
• Grief can manifest as homesickness, not just sadness or longing.
• Self-compassion and small steps matter—even when progress feels invisible.

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For Listeners

This episode provides candid insight into the complexities of emotional growth, the roots of shame, and the ongoing practice of being vulnerable and accepting love. Louie and Rob’s honest reflections and humor make this a moving and relatable listen for anyone navigating their own mental health journey.

Transcript

[Rob Maloney]

Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com Secondhand TherapyPod this episode of.

[Louie]

Secondhand Therapy is sponsored by BetterHelp. Yes, BetterHelp is an online resource for therapy.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

And I don't know who would have guessed it. I don't know if you know about the show, but we're actually very pro therapy around here. Very pro therapy.

[Rob Maloney]

That is the rumor that's going around.

[Louie]

It's helped me a lot.

[Rob Maloney]

Tell me more.

[Louie]

It really has. You don't notice a change in me, Is that what you're saying?

[Rob Maloney]

I do.

[Louie]

Okay, then has it helped you?

[Rob Maloney]

Absolutely. I'm in Better Help right now and my therapist is awesome.

[Louie]

Your therapist sounds pretty great. I'm not gonna lie.

[Rob Maloney]

He did. I'm so happy with him. And like whenever we have to reschedule or something changes, it's so easy. It's like literally like two, two clicks and it's done.

[Louie]

I have to call mine. It's terrible. But here's what I will say. I was always very much an in person therapy kind of set up for myself. Yeah, I'm on telehealth now.

[Rob Maloney]

Way better. Oh, yeah, dude.

[Louie]

Doing therapy like from your couch or like where you're in your space where you're comfortable? Dude, I'm. I'm doing way better.

[Rob Maloney]

That's one of the best parts of Better Help is that I get to do it from my cozy little corner chair.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

Dim the lights. I light a candle. It is therapy time. Yeah.

[Louie]

I don't ever want to go back to a therapy office again. So that's where we're at now. Since they are a new sponsor of ours, they were nice enough to give us a little discount code for you to use. So a little treat.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah. If.

[Louie]

If you're hearing this, maybe you're in between insurance and you would like to start some therapy. Or maybe you've never been to therapy and you really want to try it out. Better helps a really good start. They make it easy to find and pair up with somebody and it's very affordable. So if you want to give it a shot, you can use the discount code they gave us. You can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy or just betterhelp.com and it'll ask you where you heard about it. Choose Secondhand Therapy. They'll give you 10% off your first month. Try it out. Start your healing journey. Change my life. To change your life.

[Rob Maloney]

I'm changed.

[Louie]

He's changing. Changing. Hello.

[Rob Maloney]

My little bear cubs. Welcome back to secondhand Therapy. It is me, Mama Bear, AKA King of Two Things, AKA the Maloney Pony. This is our last week on break. We hope you had a great little holiday season. We had a much needed holiday break. We are back in studio next week. So you will have a brand new episode waiting for you next week. This episode, however, it is a replay. I think it's episode 74 maybe. It's one of my favorites. We're back in the Los Angeles studio and Lou is talking about the mismatch of emotions and nervous system that's happening when he's trying to be vulnerable. And I of course, am talking about the usual dead mom stuff and grief and it's just a really, really good episode. It's one of my favorites. I hope you enjoy it. But before we get into that, you know the deal. I need to remind you that we are not therapists. We are not experts. This is not a substitute for therapy. And this is not professional advice in any way. You already know that. And we know that you're going to hear some ads. You know that too. You're going to hear some ads. But there was a way around that. You can join us on Patreon. You can get access to episodes a week early. You get them on Friday instead of Monday. You get after the pod bonus, you know, clips. We talk for sometimes 15 minutes, other times an hour. You get access to the other podcast called the Other Show. It's our non therapy podcast. You get merch discounts, all kinds of fun stuff over on Patreon and of course ad free episodes. So head on over to Patreon and join us over there. And it's a great way to support the show. If you're listening for free and you think, hey, I would like to, I'd like to help support these guys. Patreon is a great way to do that. Hey, head on over there. All the details are in the link in the bio. Wherever you're listening, watching, whatever you're doing, there's a link. Head on over to Patreon. What else is going on? We have merch available. We got some really cozy hoodies. I'm wearing a cozy hoodie right now. I've been wearing this hoodie for three days. I'm not ashamed, I'll tell you that around the house, this is day three in this hoodie. It's nice and warm and cozy. We have some oversized ones, we have some regular ones. Really, really, really comfy hoodies over there. So check those out. What Else is that. What else do I need to tell you? Oh, you can contact us. You can contact us. You can send us physical mail through our PO Box, or you can text us or leave us voice notes, and sometimes we use them on the air. All that information is in the description or it's on the screen right now. If you're watching this on YouTube, I think that. I think. You know, I think that's it. Enjoy this replay. We'll see you with a brand new episode next week. We hope you had a great little holiday break. We love you. We miss you. We'll see you soon.

[Louie]

Hello, my little bear cubs, and welcome back secondhand therapy. And we know that. That it's the mismatch in me that I'm the most frustrated with, because I have. I have this deep, deep desire to be vulnerable. And that. It could mean crying, it could mean whatever. Just. I have this deep desire for vulnerability. But the feeling I have of vulnerability, it feels so silly and it feels foolish, and that mismatch is so frustrating because I know vulnerability is a great thing, and I know it's something I want. I know it's something I'm working toward. I know those things, but it feels so foolish and shameful and. Yeah, that mismatch is. Ah, man, it's driving me nuts, man.

[Rob Maloney]

Why do you want it so badly?

[Louie]

Because I want to be a better partner and a better friend and a better uncle and a better brother and a better son and a better self. I think if I can figure out that mismatch and I can get my body and my nervous system to understand that me being vulnerable doesn't mean I'm being a fool and I'm gonna be made a fool of. Mm.

[Rob Maloney]

Then.

[Louie]

I think that would be a big step towards self love for me. I don't think that gets me across the finish line. I don't think there is a finish line. I think. I think that healing in general is a practice. It's not a destination.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah, I. I have family members that are like, are you done with therapy yet? No.

[Louie]

Hey. No. And even when I'm done with therapy, I'm still working forever.

[Rob Maloney]

Hey, this just added a few more weeks.

[Louie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

So when you say that you want to be more vulnerable and is that. What does that look like to you in those moments with these other people?

[Louie]

I don't even know. I don't know.

[Rob Maloney]

So then what is the. What does the goal look like then? If. If you don't know what it looks like, then what is the.

[Louie]

I guess the goal is to not be afraid of it.

[Rob Maloney]

Mm.

[Louie]

Is to not.

[Rob Maloney]

Even though you can identify what it is. Exactly.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

Interesting.

[Louie]

The thought of crying in front of somebody, I feel. I feel like, oh, they are going to mock me with this later, or. I don't know, dude. I don't know, man. Anything.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

I tell you, really how we got into it is. Excuse the sirens.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah. It sounds like it's coming up the elevator.

[Louie]

Very. It's very windy in Los Angeles today. The cops are out.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah. That's how windy it is. Yeah.

[Louie]

They like to shoot people in the wind. And we got into that. She asked me, what does it feel like when I ask for emotional support? And the only response I come up with was, what does that mean?

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

And then she asked me, well, what does emotional support mean? She was like, if someone asked you for emotional support, what does that mean? And I was like, I. I don't. I was like, if someone said, hey, I need emotional support, I would go, what exactly do you need from me? Because sometimes people just want to be heard. Sometimes people want help. Sometimes people want advice. And I was like, I don't. I would ask, do you need. Do you need to be heard right now? Do you need solutions? Like, so. She's like, so when you ask for emotional support. And I was like, well, I don't. Because, again, don't know what it means.

[Rob Maloney]

Right.

[Louie]

And she goes, okay, why don't you. And I figured out that oftentimes.

[Rob Maloney]

And.

[Louie]

You and I have gotten into this a couple times, that when. If I'm talking about a struggle or whatever, people offer up suggestions of solutions, and I don't. I don't want that.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

I don't need you to fix the problem. And I think what I've never realized is I just. What I want is for. Is just for somebody to tell me, like, hey, there's nothing wrong with you.

[Rob Maloney]

You know?

[Louie]

And anytime I am looking for emotional support, which I didn't realize I was doing, everybody would just come at me with solutions. And I don't need that. I know how to fix the problem. It just sucks right now.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

And that makes perfect sense because when I was a kid, there was no time for feelings. It was, let's figure it out. And so now when I have a thing and someone's like, oh, have you thought of this? I'm like, oh, no, no. I've already figured it out. I just hate it right now.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

And I just want to be heard. And I had no idea. That's what I had Been dealing with.

[Rob Maloney]

Now, that's shocking.

[Louie]

Why is it shocking?

[Rob Maloney]

Because we. We know this because of your childhood.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

Because. Yeah, because I didn't know that.

[Louie]

I won't even seek out emotional support because I don't want to hear your. You're gonna. I don't want to. Oh, you're gonna fix it. I don't need you to fix it.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Yeah. So I'm not even gonna. Because. Because me going, hey, I need. I need. I need to talk to somebody right now, and all I want is for you to tell me that there's nothing wrong with me saying that is too vulnerable.

[Rob Maloney]

Okay? That's what I. I had two things. That was one of them.

[Louie]

King of two things.

[Rob Maloney]

King of two things.

[Louie]

What's the other thing?

[Rob Maloney]

The other thing was. Now, this is gonna sound crazy. I know it's gonna be wild to you, but what if somebody somewhere has thought of something that you haven't thought of? What a wild idea.

[Louie]

Now, I'm sure they have. They didn't think of the next thing.

[Rob Maloney]

Okay.

[Louie]

And I did.

[Rob Maloney]

So we. So let's talk about.

[Louie]

Even if they've thought of something I've thought of, I don't want the solution.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

That's not what I need.

[Rob Maloney]

Yes.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

I. Yeah.

[Louie]

Yeah. Because obviously, of course, they have. Right. I'm not a czar. I'm not. I'm not a prodigy of any kind. I'm just a overthinker, and I have anxiety in my entire childhood was rooted in, if you make a mistake, you're worthless.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

So I'm always a few steps ahead. I'm sure there's many people are more steps than that.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah, of course. So what is so scary about telling people because you are so direct. Let me start here. You are a very direct person, and you don't have a problem sticking up for yourself in other ways. So what is the. What's the roadblock of just saying, here's what I need right now? Why is that so scary when other things you're able to be so direct with?

[Louie]

I think because that is rooted in emotion and all of the directness is just rooted in relaying information. I have no problem relaying information. Even if it's uncomfortable, that's fine. I have no problem hearing information if it's uncomfortable. But if it goes to vulnerability, if it goes to emotion. A little tough for old Lou Bear, evidently. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Vulnerability is. Go ahead.

[Rob Maloney]

How. How are you able to hold space for others, then? Do you have judgment for others who are vulnerable?

[Louie]

No.

[Rob Maloney]

Okay.

[Louie]

I ask, do you need to be heard? Do you want solutions? Do you want. Do you want me to not say anything? Like, what do you need right now? But also, if someone were to ask me those. I don't know. I don't have an answer. Oh, dude. You want me to get in my feelings. I don't know what I'm feeling.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Yeah. And all that goes back to this mismatch.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Of.

[Rob Maloney]

And you hate a mismatch.

[Louie]

I hate a mismatch.

[Rob Maloney]

If there's one thing I know about you. Oh, you hate a mismatch.

[Louie]

Dude. Square banging around hole. Kill me. Oh, kill me.

[Rob Maloney]

Figure it out.

[Louie]

Oh, dude. Three chopsticks. Oh, where's the fourth one? You know?

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

But we were talking about children who have. We got into shame. And I basically, I would. I asked. I was like, okay, what is shame? Like, I know what shame is. Root of shame is that you. There's something wrong with me. This belief that there's something wrong with me. I think I've always thought of shame being, like, tied back and rooted to, like, one action. Like, you did something when you were young that you don't remember that you're ashamed of.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

And that's not it.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

So we were talking about shame and kids. Children who are children of emotionally immature parents.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

And I believe my parents fall into that. My parents did not. Well, my dad wasn't around, and my mom was raising two kids by herself and didn't have the emotional intelligence to hold space for us and to just have us be heard or be seen. So children of emotionally immature parents and children of parents who are always fixing things for them, which is where you come in.

[Rob Maloney]

Hey, man, roll call.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

Present when you have.

[Louie]

When children have parents or a parent that is always there to fix mistakes.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Always there to make sure they're comfortable. Always there to make sure they're happy. Those two types of parents later in those children. Children of those types of parents later in adulthood typically have a great deal of shame for you is because as children, we don't. We don't have the ability to understand. Oh, Mom's having a hard day.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Oh, mom is getting her value from fixing my life. That's how she feels like we don't have that. I don't understand. Oh, mom has two kids and she shuts out of mind. All I see is mom isn't meeting my needs. There's something wrong with me. So for me as a child, all I feel is, there's something wrong with me. My mom isn't hearing me. She doesn't want to hear what's wrong. There's something wrong with me. And for children of parents that fix everything, the feeling is there must be something wrong with me. Why is mom always fixing everything? Mmm. And that's where our shame comes from, my guy.

[Rob Maloney]

Well, you found it.

[Louie]

We found it.

[Rob Maloney]

I knew it was buried somewhere. I left it somewhere.

[Louie]

So you can venom on my therapist.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah. Holy shit.

[Louie]

Yeah. What is wrong with me that mom is always fixing everything? Are you taking maka yet?

[Rob Maloney]

I. I am and it's pretty cool.

[Louie]

Yeah, I'm only on day three. Yeah. Which one are you taking? You on the black. Yeah, I do the black too. I do the black and I do the tri blend.

[Rob Maloney]

Oh, you do too?

[Louie]

I do two. Okay. Technically three, because the blend is a blend of three. Okay, well, so if you don't know about maca, it is a root native to Peru. It grows in three colors. Black, red and yellow. Or yellow or yellow. Yellow or yellow. I take the black and I take the tri blend. My girl takes the red and you take the black.

[Rob Maloney]

I do.

[Louie]

Typically, yeah, men take the black, women take the red and then you intersperse the triple end. But it has a lot of benefits. I've been taking it daily for a little over a year. I have noticed a lot mood, skin, hair, energy, if you testosterone, you know, libido. I've had a lot of improvements.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah, all true.

[Louie]

And we get. Well, I get our. I get my maca. And I have been from a company called the Maca team. They are the biggest supplier of genuine maca from Peru. The biggest supplier in America. And they are nice enough to partner with. Partner with us and give a discount code. If you want to try out maca, you can go to the maca team.com secondhand therapy and you can use code bear cub for 10 off.

[Rob Maloney]

Oh, fancy.

[Louie]

So yeah, if you want to try some maca, try it out, dudes. Try the black, ladies, try the red. Or try the try, but at least go to the website, read about it, see if you might want to do it. It's not pharmaceutical. It's all natural. I've been taking it for over a year. I like it. You're three days in. You're less annoying. So we did it.

[Rob Maloney]

We did it.

[Louie]

The moca team.com secondhand therapy. Check it out.

[Rob Maloney]

Hey, if you're tired of hearing these ads, which I'm sure you are, you should head on over to Patreon. There are ad free episodes and early access to episodes you could be hearing this a week early along with acc, along with access to a. An entirely different podcast. Some would say a better one called the other show.

[Louie]

It is fun.

[Rob Maloney]

It's non therapy related.

[Louie]

It is fun.

[Rob Maloney]

Super fun. Plus you have have. Plus you have early access to my new podcast series, Happy not Funny. And it's ad free episodes on that as well. Also fun merch discounts. Also fun live show things where we interact with the audience.

[Louie]

Live streams is what he's trying to say. We are not going on tour.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah, that's true. What did I say?

[Louie]

You said live shows.

[Rob Maloney]

Well, same same. You know, it's like a live show. Nope, it's like a zoom.

[Louie]

Okay.

[Rob Maloney]

Anyways, you'll have access to us in a more intimate manner.

[Louie]

Intimate.

[Rob Maloney]

How about that?

[Louie]

Intimate. There's no end.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah, like the candidate. Like the candies.

[Louie]

Intimate.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Also, if you sign up, you get a little treat.

[Rob Maloney]

Oh yeah.

[Louie]

So check out the different tiers. One of the tiers is just. If you're just here for secondhand therapy, you want no ads, we'll send you a dope little sticker. And I'm gonna be honest with you, a lot of time went into designing this sticker. Yeah, too much. You can argue. Too much dope sticker though. So you sign up for that tier, we'll send you a sticker. The next tier, if you want the other podcast, if you want the bonus stuff from secondhand therapy, all the little extras, you get the sticker and we're going to send you a signed print designed by yours truly. That took way too much time. Still, it's way too much time. We'll sign it, we'll send it out to you. And then we have the top tier with the live streams. If you want to hang out with us a couple times a month, you get the sticker, the print, and we'll send you a T shirt that we are not selling or getting anywhere else. So check out Patreon. If you sign up, you get some treats and it's a good way to support the podcast.

[Rob Maloney]

We'll see you over there.

[Louie]

Thanks. So I think I found your shame. And I think I found my shame. And it's uncomfortable.

[Rob Maloney]

Did you deal with. Because we have two different types of shame.

[Louie]

Mm. That fuck you up. Where'd you go?

[Rob Maloney]

I was thinking about. Let me. Let me ask this first. Your shame seems to be rooted in. And more of. And I'm gonna. This sounds harsher than what it just lack of better term neglect.

[Louie]

Sure. Emotional.

[Rob Maloney]

Emotional collect. Yeah, sure. Did that with your self worth at all of. Not like, oh, there's something wrong with me, but did you ever feel like, oh, I'm not deserving of it? Because those are two different things.

[Louie]

Not consciously.

[Rob Maloney]

Do you ever feel that way now about, like. Do you ever feel like, oh, I don't deserve this?

[Louie]

I don't deserve what? To be someone to care about my emotions? Yeah, I think so. I think I do. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I've ever looked at it that way.

[Rob Maloney]

What about love? It kind of falls in, like, more broader category.

[Louie]

Yeah, it might. I. I've always. I've always struggled to accept love. I don't know if it's because I don't think I deserve it. I think it's. I think it goes more into vulnerability. It's. It. You have to be very vulnerable to accept love. I think that's more of my struggle than the thought of deserve. I think it's just the lack of ability. Because I'd be a fool to accept your love. That's foolish.

[Rob Maloney]

Oh, interesting.

[Louie]

Oh, I'm gonna take it away so you can just take it back later and make fun of me with it. Yeah, I think it's. I think my thing is rooted in just. Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

Where does trust fall into that thing? Because it's a lot of. Like.

[Louie]

It's in the cocktail, baby.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah. Because a lot of what I'm hearing is you don't trust anybody to have this information against you kind of thing. This.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

And that is what else we talked about in therapy today, guys. Not trust directly, but this. Give a little context.

[Rob Maloney]

Okay.

[Louie]

Okay.

[Rob Maloney]

Love a little context.

[Louie]

We were moving.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Now, I'm gonna say some things, and I want you to know. Did my light just go off?

[Rob Maloney]

Your light just went off. Even though we just charged it.

[Louie]

We just charged the light. And my light's off, guys. And that's okay. We're gonna deal with it. None of this is an attack.

[Rob Maloney]

Okay.

[Louie]

You are not in trouble.

[Rob Maloney]

Here we go.

[Louie]

Okay.

[Rob Maloney]

This means that I'm under attack, and then I'm in trouble. Go on.

[Louie]

You're right. I have done everything for this move. I have negotiated lease. I have shut off our utilities here. I have turned on your utilities there. I have booked the truck. I done everything for this move. Part of me is frustrated with that, and part of me would not have it any other way.

[Rob Maloney]

If I may, please. That second part.

[Louie]

We know that. Yeah, we know that.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

So.

[Louie]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Because I know I'll do it right? Mm. I don't know. You gotta do it right. We might not have power for a week. Yeah. Why can't I just accept that? Why can't I go, yeah, turn on the power. That'd be great. And then if it's fucked up, it's fucked up.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

And. It's because I. What I said in therapy. Was that I'm truly alone when it comes down to it, in this world and in this life. And she asked me, is that your belief? And I don't know. I don't know, because you hear of, You know, people that die alone, isolate themselves and die alone. And then I think about people who die surrounded by family and friends. They're still dying alone. You're still the only one checking out.

[Rob Maloney]

No.

[Louie]

So is that also dying alone? And I don't have an answer.

[Rob Maloney]

I don't think it is.

[Louie]

Okay. Why not?

[Rob Maloney]

Because you're. Simple answer.

[Louie]

I get existential in therapy, baby.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah. I can. I don't want to deal with my problems. I want to deal with the world. Yeah. Okay.

[Louie]

Do you believe you're a lone. Well, let me tell you about death.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Quick answer. I have no idea if I believe that.

[Rob Maloney]

I think the simple answer is love. Right. That's the difference. You're surrounded by love, so you're not surrounded by people necessarily. You're not like that. That part is the. The side thing. Yeah, they're there, but what you're surrounded by is love. And what you're surrounded by is people that care about you when you're there. And so you're not alone. Yeah, you're the only one physically. I think this is where your. Your literal sense comes in. Like, yeah, you're physically the only one dying, but you're not dying alone. These people are giving you their love on the. On your way out. And when you're alone, alone, and there's nobody around, then, yeah, yeah, you are that. That is alone. I think that's the difference. You won't have that love, even if you know it. Even if, you know, like, I had a good life and people liked me, and you just. You're in the hospital alone. That's not the same as being surrounded by love in the room. And that's coming from somebody who's not afraid to be vulnerable and who embraces those things and who is in touch with those things. And, you know, I feel everything. So, yeah, I think that is the difference is love in the room.

[Louie]

So you don't feel alone? You don't think you're out here alone?

[Rob Maloney]

I do in different ways. I have. I have friends that care about me a lot. I have people that love me.

[Louie]

No, you don't. I'm just kidding. And this is my inability to be vulnerable.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Let's make a joke.

[Rob Maloney]

Hey, you know what?

[Louie]

I'm very sorry. Yes, you do.

[Rob Maloney]

I'm going to poll you right now.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

Nothing funny about this. Why are you laughing?

[Louie]

Have I ever said that?

[Rob Maloney]

Oh, yeah, yeah, I know. There was a time, one time, it was a little sidetracked.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

There was a time your old therapist told you something about being funny, about like not not being funny in therapy. And buddy, I gotta tell you. Yeah, for about a month and a half after that.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

Exhausting to be around you. Every time I'd make it, you go, why are you laughing? But there's nothing fun. You, like, took that to heart and I was like, we're done now. Like, she told you that? And you were like, yep. And you just cut it off for a while.

[Louie]

Interesting.

[Rob Maloney]

It was wild. I was like, we can't fucking around anyways.

[Louie]

Thank God that's over. Like, God, we go through phases, guys. You know what, Sometimes we're healed, sometimes.

[Rob Maloney]

We'Re breaking balls, but yeah, I think.

[Louie]

Unbearable to be around.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah. Make a little jokey joke and you'd be like, you'd be so mad at me. You'd be like, what do you. Why are you laughing? Oh, okay.

[Louie]

Any jokey joke or a self deprecating joke about killing yourself?

[Rob Maloney]

No, no, just like if we were talking therapy at all, on air, off air at all. It was.

[Louie]

I see, I see, I see.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah, it was like.

[Louie]

Well, I was like, okay, that's right, baby.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah, you were funny.

[Louie]

You're on a tight ship.

[Rob Maloney]

You do. Yeah. Yeah.

[Louie]

All right, tell me about the thing I forgot.

[Rob Maloney]

So. No, I feel, you know, I feel that love. I know that I'm not alone in those aspects. How I feel alone is the. It's the feeling of, of losing where you came from. And that's. I, I heard somebody talking about the feeling that they were trying to articulate about losing their mother. And I heard it and it was just perfect. It is, it's not grief and it's not like this, this numbness that you feel around death sometimes, like when you lose a grandparent or, you know, somebody like that. It is, it is the feeling of, of being homesick. That feeling that you get when you're like, God, I just want, I just want it. It's that feeling. That's the feeling I have when I think of My mother. It's not necessarily that I'm sad or that I, you know, sad in the ways of grief, of traditional grief, of being like, oh, I miss her. Like, oh, you know, I wish I could call her. It is that aching pain of just being like, I just want to be home.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

And I know I'll never. I'll never have that. And that's the alone that I feel. Not. Nobody cares about me or nobody's looking out for me.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

That makes sense.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

So in these. It's not just moments that you're feeling alone. It is just this. That's just your default setting.

[Louie]

And I don't know that feeling alone is the thing. I think it. It's my big picture thinking.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Of in the big picture. It's just me out here. My guy.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. It's not like a lonely feeling. It is a. I can only trust myself. It's just. It's me versus the world. Like, I. I love people. I care about people. I'm not alone in those ways. But when it comes down to it, it's me.

[Louie]

Yeah. Are you tired of staring at your phone? Are you addicted to it?

[Rob Maloney]

Oh, my God.

[Louie]

Are you?

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah. Well, yeah, like everybody else. Sure.

[Louie]

Okay. All right, well, I got a new. Let me tell these people about my new phone, okay?

[Rob Maloney]

Okay.

[Louie]

It's called the light phone.

[Rob Maloney]

Oh, I've heard about that.

[Louie]

The light. Yeah, you've seen me use it. The light phone. Also known some people call it a dumb phone. Anyway, it's a smartphone. It has Internet, but the Internet will only get you navigation. There is no email, there is no social media, nothing like that. It does calls, it does texts, it does navigation. It has a calendar and a flashlight.

[Rob Maloney]

It's like having a BlackBerry again.

[Louie]

Kinda O. Yeah, I love that. And it has a pretty cool camera too. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, it's got a dope camera on it. It's got a camera. Yeah. Anyway, they were nice enough, they sent us a little discount code if anybody wants to get on the light phone train with us. So there's a link in the episode description for the light phone. And then if you want to pre order the light phone three, use code. Secondhand therapy. All lowercase. Try out a light phone. It's pretty great.

[Rob Maloney]

Stop your doom scrolling.

[Louie]

Stop your doom scrolling. Be more present in life. Link down below. Promo code. Secondhand therapy. All lowercase. Check out a light phone. Join us in the present world. People leave. People die, people fade. It's One thing that you and I talk about that I've told you many times is like, not everybody's meant to be in your life forever.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

And I understand that. I accept that. And yeah. I just. I. Again, I don't know if it's a belief, but it really seems like when it comes down to it, bro, this is me out here.

[Rob Maloney]

Now let's go back to micro. Okay.

[Louie]

Also, can I. We're just gonna state. It is there is an insane windstorm.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah. You guys.

[Louie]

So if you're hearing any background noise, it's. It is truly.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

You hear that? There is a severe weather warning for wind.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah. It's like 90 mile an hour wind here. Yeah. So you got to hear that it's windy. Let's go. Let's go from macro to micro.

[Louie]

Okay.

[Rob Maloney]

And let's use the example that you just used with the move coming up.

[Louie]

Okay.

[Rob Maloney]

And how you wouldn't have it any other way. Right. So, like, What would you ever. And let's just take me out of the scenario too. Is there anyone that you would be able to be like, oh, yeah, I'll. I'll delegate. You know, like, hey, I'm gonna handle the Internet. If you can handle the utility, the power or whatever. Like, can you. Would you ever be able to trust somebody in that way or are you. Like, I'm just gonna do it so I know it's done.

[Louie]

The latter.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you. The frustration that you have then that goes along with that is that it's. Is the frustration towards other people not stepping up or is the frustration with yourself knowing that, like, I know that I. I won't be happy unless I just do it.

[Louie]

I think the frustration is with the other people that their mothers let them make mistakes growing up and they shouldn't have.

[Rob Maloney]

Now, this isn't funny.

[Louie]

I know.

[Rob Maloney]

And we're.

[Louie]

Does it sound like I'm joking?

[Rob Maloney]

Is that a serious answer?

[Louie]

That was funny. Yeah. The frustration is, is that other people don't have an attention to detail. And hey, that's okay. And I know that.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

But also, I'll just do it so I know it's not up.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

And I do have a desire to be able to let go of that. Like we talked about earlier. I would love to let somebody else do it. And if it's up, just be like, damn. All right.

[Rob Maloney]

That's what I was gonna say. Yeah. Do you hit?

[Louie]

Yeah. Yeah, I would love to.

[Rob Maloney]

Okay.

[Louie]

But that feels deeply unsafe. Deeply unsafe.

[Rob Maloney]

Really?

[Louie]

Oh, yeah. A mistake. You gotta be fucking Kidding me?

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

You out of your fucking mind?

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah. What if they do it, but they don't do it like you would have done it? Does that count as a mistake?

[Louie]

No, I'm more of a results guy.

[Rob Maloney]

Okay.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

Okay. So that's a step. That's huge. That's a big step because you're releasing a lot of that control because it is done. The results are done. It doesn't matter how they get there. And that's huge. You should. That. You should be really proud of that.

[Louie]

I'm not. Thank you. Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

Examine it. Look at it.

[Louie]

That's looking at it. I give a. Thank you. Very nice of you to say.

[Rob Maloney]

Why? Why doesn't that. Why. Why is that not on your radar as a progress?

[Louie]

I don't know. I. I don't know. I don't have a good answer.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah. Which I did.

[Louie]

I don't.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah. I mean, you know, this about the work. It's piece by piece.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

And that's a big piece, so.

[Louie]

Okay. Hope you're right.

[Rob Maloney]

Hey, man, I don't know.

[Louie]

I don't know if you are. Hope you're right. Don't know if you are. Hope you're right. Don't know if you are. Yeah, man. Yeah. So. Yeah, I can't make mistakes, you know?

[Rob Maloney]

Okay, so in that mindset of piece by piece, are there baby steps that you could be doing and, like, little things. You could be trusting in others that you would feel comfortable like, oh, they could that up, and I don't care. And that could build this bigger trust within you.

[Louie]

Yes. I don't know what they are, but I've also. I don't know, dude. I was gonna say, like, I also. Yes.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

But then if someone's like, hey, can you look this over just to make sure?

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Then I'll be like, sure.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

And then if I spot something wrong, hey, I'll take care of that, you know? Mm.

[Rob Maloney]

So instead of correcting them and having them redo it, you'll just take over?

[Louie]

I would prefer to. I will offer to.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Like, hey, you want me to knock? I got it, man. I can fix that real quick. Yeah, no problem. Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

So then where does that frustration lie in you having to pick up the.

[Louie]

Slack or them not having the attention to detail?

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Like, today, went and got a cashier's check. Now, it had three mistakes on it. Now, did I write down what I needed on the cashier's check? Yes.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

How were there still three mistakes?

[Rob Maloney]

Now, that was frustrating for me.

[Louie]

Oh, yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

And you Know me. I don't pay attention to any details.

[Louie]

Yeah, I wrote it down. Yeah, I wrote it down.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

And you missed three things. Wow.

[Rob Maloney]

So that's valid. That's a valid.

[Louie]

And I come back there and I'll type the fucking thing.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah, that's. That's a valid response. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Louie]

But also, like, I just. I want to have this leniency.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Like, if you and I are going to dinner and you go to the wrong place, you're two minutes down the street. I want to be like, all right, scene two. I don't be like, this guy can't even get the goddamn restaurant. Are you kidding me? Yeah. Oh, who gives a. Dude? I know that, but it doesn't feel like that. It feels like somebody up. Oh, boy. Yeah. And I don't like that. But when I look at that, like, that part of myself that struggles to let go of things, I do feel a lot of compassion toward that part, which tells me I am able. I am looking at that part from my core self because I am able to go at it with compassion, because I look at that part and I'm like. All I want to tell it is like, oh, it doesn't have to be like this, man. Like, it's okay. Hey, first off, you're allowed to make mistakes. You're enough. And it doesn't have to be like this. It's okay. Yeah. But that part's not ready to hear it yet. Not ready yet. But the fact that I can view that part from a place of compassion does feel like growth for me.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

That's nice. Because typically, I'd be like, oh, well, give me. You know, I'm just. Yeah. Talk and.

[Rob Maloney]

But that's.

[Louie]

That's the little part that's like, oh, little boy.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Oh, can you just tell me there's nothing wrong with me? Oh, cool. Yeah. When? Hey, that'd be great. Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

I wonder if correcting some of your own self talk would help you with being more open and being more vulnerable because you're treating yourself in this way, being like, oh, and you. So that's how you expect others to view it when others might not. And so I wonder if fixing some of that self talk would be, again, another, like, baby step towards the bigger picture of being more vulnerable, because you wouldn't. Maybe somebody's not gonna go, oh, you're sad.

[Louie]

So what I did was talk about my feelings, and what you did was suggest a fix. And we know how I feel about that, don't we?

[Rob Maloney]

I don't know I can't remember.

[Louie]

I literally was sitting here as you were saying that. I was like, why is this pissing me off? And I was like, oh, but also, that's what this show is.

[Rob Maloney]

I was just gonna say, that's the show.

[Louie]

He's doing the thing that we're supposed to be doing.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Whilst the microphones are in our faces. And I was like, why is this suggestion so goddamn mad? Have you thought about selft talk? I've thought about a lot of things, my guy. And guess what? You didn't fix it, did you? With the self. That's where my mind went. And that's not your fault. That's on me because I don't know how to accept love or be vulnerable. Full circle, baby.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

Yeah. Do you have anything to add? Have you been to therapy recently or.

[Rob Maloney]

I gave it up, man.

[Louie]

Oh, my God.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah, I'm fixed. I'm healed. I'm super chill, laid back dude, living my best life, you know? Yeah. Shame is like, I've been talking the last few weeks. It's been the big topic for me in therapy as well.

[Louie]

What did you think of my revelation? My revelation? I mean, my therapist said a sentence and I said, oh, dude, I'm going.

[Rob Maloney]

To say that to somebody else.

[Louie]

I. We were talking about. Because we're wrapping up, we have a couple sessions left. And, you know, she started with like, how are you feeling? And I was like, I'm stressed talking about the move and all that. And I was like, yeah. And, you know, she just asked me because I hate doing telehealth therapy. I hate doing it on zoom, but I'm going to. Until I find a new therapist. I'm going to drive over the California state line so I can zoom into a couple with her.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

We're like 20 minutes from the state line, so it's the same as driving to therapy now. And she. She's like, do you think it'll be helpful? I know you hate zoom therapy. And I was like, yeah. And then she asked me what role therapy plays in my life, And.

[Rob Maloney]

It.

[Louie]

Was a weird thing.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

I was like, well, it's a very consistent time every week to only focus on myself. And. Yeah. And. Oh. And I was. I was talking about my frustration when we have therapy sessions and they're not bangers.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Louie]

And then she said that line about moms, and I was like, and that is a banger.

[Rob Maloney]

That's a banger. Yeah.

[Louie]

So what did you think of the banger of?

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

What is wrong with me that mom is always fixing everything for me.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's dead on.

[Louie]

Have you ever thought of it like that before?

[Rob Maloney]

No. No.

[Louie]

Where are you going right now? Because this is exactly the face and the. The despondent space out that happened the first time. Where are you going?

[Rob Maloney]

Home.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

So she can correct you some more. I'm just kidding.

[Rob Maloney]

I. Knowing what I know now about myself, with all the stuff I'm learning and still learning about adhd, I wish I would have. Or they would have known that about me when I was younger, because a lot of the trouble that I had and a lot of the things that she would take over for me, I think could have really been eliminated or. I don't know. I don't think my mother knew how or what to do with me. And I'm not hyper adhd. I was never, like, bouncing off the walls and, like, couldn't focus. It was just more of disinterest. I could do really well in school. I just didn't give a. About it. You know what I mean? Like, I know my. I learn very fast. Like, I. You give me something new and I learn it right away. Like, I have that kind of ADHD where I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll learn this new fucking thing in a day and be a professional at it by tomorrow morning.

[Louie]

That's autism.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah. Yeah, so. So I have that kind. And. But I have to be interested in the thing. So if you're putting me in fucking advanced, whatever the fuck, like, I can do it, but I have to want to do it. So I'm not dumb. I just don't want to. And that caused a lot of problems in school where my mother and the school a lot of times were like, yeah, this kid, we don't know what to do with him. There was a time where my mother brought home hooked on phonics one time for me, and I was like, oh, I can read. I know.

[Louie]

Did you eat it, Stupid?

[Rob Maloney]

I was like, oh, I can read. I just don't want to.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

Like, they just didn't know what to do with me. Here's. Here's a great example of how, like, the things that I give a about, I. I give a about and I knock out. Right? And I learn fast. And I'm smart in those ways when I want to be, when I'm interested. I took computer programming in high school, got really into computers. Loved it. I wrote code for a few years and, like, built like, fucking RPG games and stuff like that from an old Macintosh when they first came out, like that kind of shit. Signed up for college, didn't want to go to college. Loved programming, though. Didn't give a fuck about going to class. Was bored in the class. So what I did was I went home and in two days, I finished the entire semester's workbook and then just tried to hand it to my teacher. Hey, here you go. I'm not going to come to class. You can go ahead and grade this and whatever. And they were like, oh, you can't do that. You have to, like, show up. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, but it's done. You can. You can grade it right now. The whole fucking thing. And that didn't go well, as you would imagine. They put me in an advanced code. Yeah, I did the same fucking thing.

[Louie]

Yeah.

[Rob Maloney]

And then I just stopped going to college.

[Louie]

What if they graded it and they were like, it's all. It's all wrong? Would you have been open to that, do you think?

[Rob Maloney]

Yes, absolutely.

[Louie]

Would you have gone to class?

[Rob Maloney]

Yes, absolutely. I'm willing to learn when I'm interested in it.

[Louie]

Does somebody have to prove to you that you don't know it yet? The wind.

[Rob Maloney]

The wind is crazy.

[Louie]

So ridiculous.

[Rob Maloney]

Yes and no. I mean, I don't know. It's not about, like, proving me wrong or whatever. It's keeping me interested. So if I were to bring the workbook in and you were like, okay, I'll look this over. And then a couple days later, you call me up and you go, hey, there's some problems with this, this and this. Like, do you want to come in? I'll be like, oh, yeah, I'll come in because I want to learn how I up or what I did wrong there. So. But I have to be interested in that piece of it. Going to class every day and listening to somebody talk about I already do or know or impasse. Like, I'm not interested in that, and I don't want to go for that. And a lot of times in school, that was the problem. Like, they would be teaching something or whatever. I'm like, yeah, I already know that. Like, I'm not interested in it. And so I don't give. Or I just don't give a fuck at all. Like, math is not for me. And I know that about myself. I can't. I. It's hard for me.

[Louie]

And I. I was gonna say, would it. Do you find that things that are for you come easily for you and things that are harder or not for you?

[Rob Maloney]

No. No, because I like a challenge that goes into like, the deadline kind of race or the. That. Those. That dopamine I get from being like, can I do it? Yeah. And that comes in with harder things, but things that I. I literally don't understand. Math is one of the things I. Man, I just don't understand numbers like that. It's really hard because I think that's more logical than it is anything else where, like history or, you know, programming or anything like that. Like, there. There is. I'm interested in those things. There's story there. There's, you know, whatever. Math is something that is too black and white for me, and I can't get interested in it. And it's hard for me to wrap my head around it. Story problems, however, I was always great at those. There's story involved. So anyways, to say all that is that, like, I think a lot of the times my mother did those things for me, and that shame comes from them not thinking that I was able to do it.

[Louie]

Yeah. The dog is scared out of her mind right now.

[Rob Maloney]

Yeah.

[Louie]

What the.

[Rob Maloney]

Jesus. Yeah. So for me, I think a lot of it was like, just real. Like, what I have to rewire now and relearn about myself is that you are capable. You can do those things. You didn't need somebody to help you. You didn't need this or that. Like, they just didn't understand you or how you work. And learning that about myself way later in life has helped me understand that. And that's. That just takes time to rewire and re and tell yourself this new story of like, hey, you can do those things. And you didn't. You didn't need the help. And you. You deserve to be taken seriously.

[Louie]

And we know that. Jesus, that's a bear. It's not.