Secondhand Therapy | #070 Replay

PonyBear Studios
Release Date: January 5, 2026

Episode Overview

This replay episode of Secondhand Therapy features hosts Louie Paoletti and Rob Maloney (aka Mama Bear, King of Two Things, Maloney Pony) reflecting on vulnerability, emotional support, shame, childhood conditioning, grief, and the ongoing practice of healing. Broadcasting from their Los Angeles studio amid a wild windstorm, the pair offer candid, relatable, and often hilarious accounts of their therapy journeys, with a raw discussion of why facing personal growth is both necessary and incredibly difficult.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Mismatch of Vulnerability and Nervous System Response

• Louie's Struggle: Louie opens up about the internal conflict of wanting to be vulnerable but feeling foolish and shameful in those moments—a mismatch between intellectual understanding and embodied emotion.

  • Quote:
    "I have this deep, deep desire to be vulnerable...but the feeling I have of vulnerability, it feels so silly and it feels foolish. And that mismatch is so frustrating because I know vulnerability is a great thing, and I know it's something I want...but it feels so foolish and shameful."
    (Louie, 05:59-06:45)

• Rob's Prompt: Rob asks why Louie wants vulnerability so much, sparking a deep self-reflection on identity and relational growth.

  • Quote:
    "Because I want to be a better partner and a better friend and a better uncle and a better brother and a better son and a better self."
    (Louie, 07:20-07:29)

• On Healing: Louie recognizes healing as a continuous process, not a destination.

  • *"Healing in general is a practice. It's not a destination."
    (Louie, 08:05-08:13)

2. Asking for Emotional Support—Definitions and Barriers

• Defining Emotional Support: Louie confesses he doesn't even know what asking for emotional support looks like; he’s unsure what to request and often avoids it due to fear of being offered unwanted solutions.

  • Quote:
    "If someone said, 'Hey, I need emotional support,' I would go, 'What exactly do you need from me?'"
    (Louie, 09:55-10:08)

• Childhood Origin: Louie traces his discomfort to a childhood where “there was no time for feelings.” Everything was solution-oriented.

  • Quote:
    "When I was a kid, there was no time for feelings. It was, let's figure it out."
    (Louie, 11:55-12:13)

• What He Really Wants: Louie realizes that when seeking support, he wants acceptance, not fixes:

  • Quote:
    "What I want is for...somebody to tell me, like, 'Hey, there's nothing wrong with you.'"
    (Louie, 11:09-11:29)

3. Shame and Childhood Conditioning

• Root of Shame: The conversation pivots to the formation of shame, focusing on two parental types: emotionally immature parents who can’t meet children’s emotional needs, and over-involved parents who constantly fix problems.

  • Quote:
    "Children of emotionally immature parents and children of parents who are always fixing things for them...later in adulthood typically have a great deal of shame."
    (Louie, 17:06-18:18)

• Personal Histories: Rob and Louie connect their own upbringings to these types—Rob’s mom always fixed things, fueling his adult shame; Louie experienced emotional neglect and struggles with not feeling worthy of care or love.

  • Quote:
    "All I see is Mom isn't meeting my needs—there's something wrong with me."
    (Louie, 18:28-18:41)

4. Grief, Loss, and Homesickness

• Rob on Grieving His Mom: Rob shares his experience of grief as a deep homesickness, not sadness.

  • Quote:
    "It's not grief...it is the feeling of, of being homesick...when I think of my mother, it's not necessarily that I'm sad or...sad in the ways of grief...it is that aching pain of just being like, I just want to be home.”
    (Rob, 34:00-35:21)

• Existential Loneliness vs. Love: Louie and Rob debate the concept of “dying alone” and the role love plays in being truly accompanied at the end of life.

  • Quote:
    "Even if you know, like, I had a good life and people liked me...that's not the same as being surrounded by love in the room.”
    (Rob, 30:26-31:43)

5. Control, Trust, and Accepting Help

• The Perfectionism Trap: Louie acknowledges his need to control tasks and intense frustration with mistakes—both his own and others’.

  • Quote:
    "I'll just do it so I know it's done...But that feels deeply unsafe. Deeply unsafe. A mistake? You gotta be fucking kidding me?"
    (Louie, 39:40-41:04)

• Compassion for Self: Despite finding it hard to relinquish control or accept mistakes, Louie is learning to approach his inner critic with compassion.

  • Quote:
    "When I look at that part of myself that struggles to let go of things, I do feel a lot of compassion toward that part...All I want to tell it is like, oh, it doesn't have to be like this, man. Like, it's okay...But that part's not ready to hear it yet."
    (Louie, 44:30-45:50)

6. Accepting Love & Trust Issues

• Worthy of Love: Louie reflects on the vulnerability needed to accept love, identifying a deep-rooted belief that accepting love is “foolish.”

  • Quote:
    "I've always struggled to accept love...You have to be very vulnerable to accept love. I think that's more of my struggle...I'd be a fool to accept your love. That's foolish."
    (Louie, 25:32-26:06)

• Trust as a Component: He realizes that mistrust is embedded in his inability to delegate or accept care.

  • Quote:
    "It's in the cocktail, baby.”
    (Louie, 26:25-26:35)

7. ADHD, Capability, and Academic Experiences

• Rob’s School Story: Rob discusses how undiagnosed ADHD led to his mother “taking over” and how that contributed to shame and doubts about his competence.
  • Quote:
    "I don’t think my mother knew how or what to do with me. And I’m not hyper ADHD. I was never, like, bouncing off the walls...I just didn’t give a fuck about [school]...A lot of the times my mother did those things for me, and that shame comes from them not thinking that I was able to do it."
    (Rob, 51:31-56:49)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Healing:
  "Healing in general is a practice. It's not a destination." – Louie (08:05)
• On Emotional Support:
  "All I want is for somebody to tell me, like, hey, there's nothing wrong with you.” – Louie (11:09)
• On Shame:
  "So for me as a child, all I feel is, there's something wrong with me. My mom isn't hearing me." – Louie (18:28)
• On Grief:
  "It is that aching pain of just being like, I just want to be home. And I know I'll never have that." – Rob (35:21)
• On Control and Mistakes:
  "But that feels deeply unsafe. Deeply unsafe. A mistake? You gotta be fucking kidding me?" – Louie (41:04)
• On Accepting Love:
  "I'd be a fool to accept your love. That's foolish." – Louie (26:06)
• On Self-Compassion:
  "All I want to tell it is like, oh, it doesn't have to be like this, man." – Louie (45:36)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:59] – Louie unpacks the mismatch between desire for vulnerability and feelings of shame
• [09:55] – Struggling to define and request emotional support
• [17:06] – Origins of shame from parenting styles
• [34:00] – Rob describes grief as homesickness rather than classic sadness
• [39:40] – Louie on control, delegation, and underlying sense of insecurity
• [44:30] – Dialogue on compassion toward inner struggles and incremental progress
• [51:31] – Rob’s ADHD history and the development of shame
• [53:59] – School and capability—shame from parental over-involvement

Memorable Moments & Tone

The episode is marked by frequent self-aware humor, recurring jokes about their own therapy experiences (“King of two things”, “That’s the show!”), and affectionate ribbing between the hosts. The conversation is honest and vulnerable, breaking up heavy moments with comic relief, and modeling real friendship and supportive dialogue.

Episode Takeaways

• Healing is ongoing; vulnerability and self-acceptance are lifelong practices.
• Shame often stems from unmet emotional needs or over-involved caregivers in childhood.
• Accepting love and help requires vulnerability and trust, which can be especially hard for those with histories of shame or perfectionism.
• Grief can manifest as homesickness, not just sadness or longing.
• Self-compassion and small steps matter—even when progress feels invisible.

For Listeners

This episode provides candid insight into the complexities of emotional growth, the roots of shame, and the ongoing practice of being vulnerable and accepting love. Louie and Rob’s honest reflections and humor make this a moving and relatable listen for anyone navigating their own mental health journey.