Being "Nice" is Ruining Your Life | #114

Summary

Podcast Summary: Secondhand Therapy

Episode 114 – "Being 'Nice' is Ruining Your Life"

Release Date: January 19, 2026
Hosts: Louie Paoletti & Michael Malone
Studio: PonyBear Studios

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Episode Overview

In this candid and humorous discussion, Louie and Michael dive into how the compulsion to be “nice”—to be liked, agreeable, and always accommodating—can quietly sabotage personal growth, authenticity, and relationships. Drawing from real therapy experiences, family dynamics, and their own cycles of people-pleasing, the hosts unpack “Nice Michael,” the consequences of chronic likability, and the deeply-rooted fears that keep them stuck. The episode blends raw vulnerability with sharp wit, making for a relatable and enlightening exploration of why being “nice” isn’t always good for you.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Accepting Flaws & the Fear of Failure

Timestamps: 07:13–12:00

• Michael shares his therapist’s assignment: to get comfortable with not always being presentable or “perfect.”
  • “Being okay with messing up, being okay with being flawed... Don’t like it. Uncomfortable.” [07:34] – Michael
• He recounts a recent motorcycle class where his instinct was to perform and prove his knowledge, even when learning something new:
  • “Any setting, I want to come off as I already know the information. Like, I’m already a pro. I had to catch myself and ask, ‘What is this? Why do you need them to know that you know?’” [08:23] – Michael
• Louie and Michael riff on the real root: fear of not being “good enough,” “smart enough,” or being unlikable if imperfect.

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2. The Burden of Niceness & People-Pleasing

Timestamps: 15:31–18:08

• Michael introduces “Nice Michael,” the version of himself that avoids speaking up, makes himself smaller, and prioritizes being accepted at all costs.
  • “Are Nice Michael’s needs getting met? No... At the end of the day, Nice Michael is all surface level.” [16:05] – Michael
• Therapy reveals that this “niceness” blocks deep relationships and leaves him unseen or feeling “too much.”
  • “It’s just that programming of, like, be polite, don’t speak up, all those things. I’m tired of that.” [16:42] – Michael

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3. What Does Acceptance Even Mean?

Timestamps: 12:44–21:15

• Louie challenges Michael on his definitions of “acceptance” and the difference between being genuinely liked and simply being treated with civility.
  • “Being likable is the opposite of abandonment for me. I want to be a good boy.” [13:02] – Michael
  • Louie: “Most people are nice to me. I just assume they have manners. I don’t think they’ve made a decision about me or my character.” [19:32]
• The two compare how they interpret friendliness and the signals of true acceptance, with Louie’s attitude contrasting Michael’s need for validation.

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4. Feelings vs. Facts: Challenging Personal Narratives

Timestamps: 28:04–31:49

• Michael shares a therapy insight about the separation between feelings (real) and the stories we attach to them (not always factual):
  • “Feelings are real, but the stories we attach to them are not. That feeling of loneliness is real, but the story is, ‘This person isn’t interested in me.’” [28:04] – Michael
• Louie teases Michael for finally internalizing the mantra, “feelings aren’t facts”:
  • “Oh my God. You finally got, ‘feelings aren’t facts.’ I’m so happy.” [30:14] – Louie

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5. Family Dynamics, Distance, and the Struggle to Connect

Timestamps: 31:49–38:00

• The hosts turn vulnerable, discussing their mothers and how their relationships have shaped them.
  • Louie realizes he doesn’t know basic things about his mom (favorite food, movie, hobby) and feels sadness and distance.
    • “I just don’t feel like I know her... And I feel sad about that.” [33:05] – Louie
  • Michael reflects on always treating his mom as a peer and the complexities that brings.

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6. Inherited Behaviors and Unmet Expectations

Timestamps: 44:24–52:39

• Michael discusses wanting his mother to be “less scared,” more adventurous, and more self-accepting. He draws the parallel to the frustration Louie often expresses with him:
  • “I just want her to realize how capable and strong she is... and that made me think about our relationship.” [45:31] – Michael
• The painful admission: Michael doesn’t want to become like his mother, not because of lack of love, but because she “wasn’t enough” for the version of her he hoped for, and those same feelings now turn inward.
  • “She wasn’t enough—for the version I wanted her to be. I wanted her to stand up for herself more, be bolder, know her worth... That’s the broad stroke: wasn’t enough.” [49:21] – Michael

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7. Why “Niceness” is Exhausting

Timestamps: 57:16–63:52

• Michael details how the drive to never be a burden, always be productive, and anticipate others’ needs manifests in daily anxiety:
  • “There are moments where I’m relaxing and I’ll hear you guys come home, and I have to be doing something... I will start working or making my bed or whatever, even though you can’t see me.” [57:38]
• He links this vigilance to how his mother would treat unmet expectations at home, pointing to deeply-rooted fear.
• The hosts wrap up reflecting on the heavy, almost physical toll of “nice” programming—and Michael’s ongoing efforts to challenge it.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On being enough:
  • Michael: “I saw how she talked to herself and I talk to myself the same way... I didn’t like it for her, and I don’t know why it’s acceptable for me. It shouldn’t be.” [51:13]
• On the deception of niceness:
  • Louie: “You want to be adventurous. You want to say yes to life, but you don’t.” [53:12]
  • Michael: “I do things I don’t want to do all the time... That’s how I ensure that they like me.” [53:28]
• On feeling unseen:
  • Michael: “I feel like too much... or I feel like not enough. Nice Michael is all surface level.” [16:22]
• On breaking free:
  • Michael (on learning how to say “no”): “There’s no reason to sugar—like, you know what I mean? Instead of saying ‘maybe,’ just being honest: ‘Nah, that’s not for me.’ That’s hard. That’s harder than anything else I’ve done.” [54:12]

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Segment Timestamps (Selected Highlights)

• 07:13: Michael discusses being tasked by his therapist to be “okay with failure.”
• 16:05: Origin of “Nice Michael” and therapy insights about people-pleasing.
• 28:04: Exploring “feelings are real, stories are not” realization.
• 33:05: Louie admits feeling distant from his mother and wanting to change that.
• 45:31: Michael relates his mother’s fears to his own avoidance of risk.
• 49:21: Michael’s raw admission: wishing more for his mom, and by extension, for himself.
• 57:38: Michael illustrates day-to-day anxiety caused by compulsive productivity and fear of being seen as lazy.
• 61:05: Vivid recounting of a panic episode about leaving a battery in the guest room, tying it to childhood patterns.

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Tone & Style

• The dialogue is honest, self-deprecating, and layered with humor as a coping mechanism.
• Both hosts are unafraid of digging into deeply personal territory, jabbing at each other but always with mutual care.
• The language is candid and emotionally expressive, making light of pain to make it bearable but never shying away from uncomfortable truths.

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Takeaways

• Being “nice” can be a protective mechanism, but it comes at the cost of authenticity and fulfillment.
• True acceptance requires vulnerability, risk, and, at times, confrontation with our own programming.
• Feelings are real—but the stories we attach to them need scrutiny.
• Breaking the cycle of people-pleasing starts with setting boundaries—even if it’s simply saying “no.”
• Understanding family patterns provides a roadmap for personal growth (and struggle).

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For Listeners

This episode is essential for anyone who finds themselves exhausted from always being agreeable, avoids confrontation even at their own expense, or who struggles with feelings of unworthiness and “not enough-ness.” Through humor and raw reflection, Louie and Michael offer both reassurance and challenge—urging listeners to consider where “niceness” might be holding them back from richer, more authentic living.

Transcript

[A]

Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com Secondhand TherapyPod this episode of.

[B]

Secondhand Therapy is sponsored by BetterHelp. Yes, BetterHelp is an online resource for therapy.

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Yeah.

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And I don't know who would have guessed it. I don't know if you know about the show, but we're actually very pro therapy around here. Very pro therapy.

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That is the rumor that's going around.

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It's helped me a lot.

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Tell me more.

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It really has. You don't notice a change in me, Is that what you're saying?

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I do.

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Okay, then has it helped you?

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Absolutely. I'm in Better Help right now and my therapist is awesome.

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Your therapist sounds pretty great. I'm not gonna lie.

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He did. I'm so happy with him. And like, whenever we have to reschedule or something changes, it's so easy. It's like literally like two, two clicks and it's done.

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I have to call mine.

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Boo.

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It's terrible. But here's what I will say. I was always very much an in person therapy kind of set up for myself. Yeah, I'm on telehealth now.

[A]

Way better. Oh, yeah, dude.

[B]

Doing therapy like from your couch or like where you're in your space where you're comfortable? Dude, I'm. I'm doing way better.

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That's one of the best parts of Better Help is that I get to do it from my cozy little corner chair.

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Yeah.

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Dim the lights. I light a candle. It is therapy time. Yeah.

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I don't ever want to go back to a therapy office again. So that's where we're at now. Since they are a new sponsor of ours, they were nice enough to give us a little discount code for you to use. So a little treat.

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Yeah. If.

[B]

If you're hearing this, maybe you're in between insurance and you would like to start some therapy. Or maybe you've never been to therapy and you really want to try it out. Better Help's a really good start. They make it easy to find and pair up with somebody. And it's very affordable. So if you want to give it a shot, you can use the discount code they gave us. You can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy or just betterhelp.com and it'll ask you where you heard about it. Choose Secondhand Therapy. They'll give you 10% off your first month. Try it out. Start your healing journey. Change my life. To change your life.

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I'm changed.

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He's Changing. Changing.

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Welcome back to Secondhand Therapy. We remind you that we are not therapists, we're not experts. This is not a substitute for therapy, and this is not professional advice in any way.

[B]

It's all true.

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It's all true. You're gonna hear some ads. You're gonna hear a lot of ads. You just heard one at the beginning of the episode.

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If you need therapy, try out BetterHelp.

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Try BetterHelp. There's a. There's a way to avoid these ads. You can head on over to Pat.

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Although we do not advocate for avoidance. Unless it's ads.

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Unless it's ads, you can head on over to Patreon. There's ad free episodes. You get early access to the episodes. You get a completely different podcast that is non therapy related called the Other Show. It's all over there on Patreon. Plus merch discounts. We hang out on lives. We do all kinds of stuff over there on Patreon.

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I'm sure.

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We out here, we doing all kinds of stuff on Patreon. Look, ain't nobody else doing that.

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That's true. Nobody else. Other people have better business plans. And I'm, you know, we're trying to take care of people. You take care of us, we try to take care of you.

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Give it something scary, you know, head on over to Patreon. Also, this guy has an app. This guy has an app out there. If you're struggling with accountability and dedication and all that good stuff.

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We have an app.

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We do have an app.

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We have an app.

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We.

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We do. It's called Secondhand Daily. If you want to check it out. Studio.com. secondhand therapy.

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And we have merch available. We got comfy hoodies for the winter.

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Oh, yeah, dude.

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I've been. I've been wrapped up in them hoodies. Look at you.

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I just put out these with the little go to therapy as crew necks.

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Oof.

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We got these in cruise now.

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We got tie dye. We got.

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That's an email.

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Voice notes or text messages.

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Electronic mail, also digital mail. I got a new thing I'm going to start doing.

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Yeah.

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I got this Polaroid camera, right?

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Yeah.

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I'd be thinking Polaroids all around. Just. I like it. It's fun. If you send us a Polaroid, I'm sending you one back. I don't know what it's going to be of. It might be in my dog. It might be of a tree. It might be of my. I don't know what it's going to be of.

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Hey, dealer's choice, you know? Hey, man. So I like that.

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Send us some cows, some donkeys, some goats, puppies. I kind of want people to start sending recipes or something.

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Ooh.

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Share some recipes. Send us some recipes.

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Yeah, I like that.

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But if you send us Polaroid, you're getting a Polaroid back. Something random. I don't know what it'll be.

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[B]

Yeah, I'm. Yeah. Now. Yeah, you should enjoy it. If you don't, you're wrong. And that's fine.

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At least try to enjoy it.

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Just listen to it.

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Give it a shot.

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Yeah, We started a podcast.

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Why?

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I don't know.

[A]

I. I do not know.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't let him hear that. They can't know.

[A]

I'll cut it out.

[B]

Hello, my little bear cubs.

[A]

And welcome back secondhand therapy. And we know that my therapist has me working on failure.

[B]

Okay, meaning?

[A]

Meaning being okay with not being presentable, being okay with messing up, being okay with being flawed. Being okay with all that stuff that I struggle with. I gotta tell you. Don't like it. Uncomfortable.

[B]

Yeah. So what do you have to do? I mean, you fail all the time. You got that part down.

[A]

Nobody knows you've got.

[B]

You've been flawed since I've known you. Nobody knows you got that. So how do you work on being a secret? It's not. We all know.

[A]

It's my little secret. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So, okay, here's how. I was trying to, like, exercise it a little bit.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I was taking my little motorcycle classes a couple weeks ago. Yeah. And my instinct was to. To just to be likable, to be accepted, to kind of show off a little bit. Like, I was answering questions and like. And not like. Because my therapist asked me. He was like. He was like. Like in a. Like a teacher's pet kind of way. And I was like, no, just in a. Like, In any setting, I want to come off as I already know the information. Like, I'm already a pro. Hey, I'm not. I don't know. I don't know about man. And in these scenarios where I'm, like, trying to answer questions, I really, like, caught myself and stop myself and, like, really held back on things because I'm like, it doesn't matter, dude. Like, it doesn't. What. What is this? Why do you need them to know that you know this answer? Why do you need the. The rest of the class to know this or whatever the. Is going on here? Like, you don't have to be a professional. You're here to learn. You're here to learn how to ride a motorcycle. Learn and that. Not easy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I even caught my. What do you. What are you chewing on?

[B]

I mean, it just sounds like, oh, you think I'm dumb. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. That's the root of it. It all comes back to not being good enough, not being smart enough, all those things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I. Yeah. Being presentable. I. Being presentable in that way, when I'm showing up for something like that, it means, like, I'm coming in at like, oh, I'm pro. You don't worry about me. I got it. Hey, worry about me. I don't know what I'm doing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that was hard to be. To let go of that, to accept that, to come in. In a. Any learning mindset.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And even. Even I caught myself, like, when I would mess up, I was like, making excuses or like, oh, hey, I know. Trying to be funny.

[B]

I'm familiar with that guy.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm like, buddy, just.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You up?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You, You. You. You change gears too early there. You up?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Man. I feel like you. You got a cannon loaded.

[B]

I don't have a cannon loaded. I'm just like, yeah, that's. We talk about that all the time. Yeah.

[A]

It's really hard. It's really hard. It's really hard for me to. To. Be in a learning mindset set.

[B]

Or.

[A]

To even just say, I don't know. I gotta know. I gotta know.

[B]

Because if you don't, then what?

[A]

Then. Then you're not going to talk to me. Like, why would you. Why would you keep talking to me? Why would you keep me around? Why would you. You know what I mean? It's all.

[B]

The motorcycle instructor. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Why would you.

[B]

Well, he's not going to keep you around because you're paying him.

[A]

I know that. But. But. And that's what I had to tell myself was like, this person doesn't have to like you or, you know. You know what I mean? Like, we're not friends.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I. That's such a hard thing for me to turn off.

[B]

Wanting everyone to be your friend or think of you as a friend.

[A]

Just acceptable acceptance.

[B]

What defines acceptance for you?

[A]

That's a good question.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

I mean, likability, like acceptance is. I mean, it's the opposite of abandonment for me. I want to be. Want to be a good boy. Want to be thought of as a good boy. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard for me to not be liked. And I'm sure there's a lot of people that don't like me. Well, don't say, like, there's like, a bunch of people and, you know, out.

[B]

There got 183,000 of them on Instagram. Buddy, you think all of them like you? I don't think all of them like me. No. I think they love me. Oh, yeah. No, no. How could they not love Nancy's boy?

[A]

Exactly. I'm a good boy.

[B]

Yeah. She terrorized him into being perfect on.

[A]

The outside all the time. Yeah.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

Yeah. How do you not struggle with that?

[B]

Being liked, Needing to be liked.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know.

[B]

What does that get?

[A]

I mean, don't you just wanna. Isn't that just, like a default setting? Like, I want this person that I'm engaging with to like me. And we talk about this all the time, but, like, I just. I can't. I can't fathom it.

[B]

I mean, right now. No, I'm trying to think of, like, when I was younger if I was like that. I used to be like that with girls. Like, always wanted girls to like me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But like, random people. I don't think so. That was pretty quiet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, I didn't. I don't think so.

[A]

Yeah, we started talking about. You know what? It always comes back around what the.

[B]

You said talk about.

[A]

I hate it.

[B]

I hate it.

[A]

I hate it.

[B]

Are you getting emotional?

[A]

No. I don't know. He. Yeah, we. We talked about. We always talk about, right. Like, fawning and making myself small and, like, you know, compromising and all that stuff and not speaking up and. Yeah, he. He referred to it as Nice Michael. And he's like. He's like, okay, let's talk about Nice Michael. And he's like, are Nice Michael's needs getting met?

[B]

And I'm like, no.

[A]

He's like, okay. And he's like, is Nice Michael, you know, really developing deep relationships when he is in love and these things? And I'm like, not really because I don't feel seen a lot of the times or I feel like too much. And he's like, okay. And so he just kept pressing about, like, Nice Michael. And I mean, at the end of the day, Nice Michael is all surface level. Right. And. Yeah, it's just that programming of, like, be polite, don't speak up, like, all those things. I'm tired of that. And I'm trying to break those habits. And with that comes failure. And with that comes saying, I don't know. And with that comes coming into situations, willing to learn and not worrying about do I come off as a fucking idiot or not? And sometimes, am I coming off rude or not, buddy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Don't like it.

[B]

So what are the benefits of being Nice Michael?

[A]

Everybody. Everybody like you.

[B]

Have you found that to be true?

[A]

Safe. It's safe.

[B]

Have you found that everybody likes you? Everybody likes Nice Michael.

[A]

A lot of people like him.

[B]

What about the people that don't?

[A]

I don't know. I Honestly, I don't run into that a lot.

[B]

I'm.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

How do you know if someone doesn't like you?

[A]

They don't invite you to things. They don't check in on you. They don't. Yeah. You're just not on their radar. Really? Like, you're just not somebody that they would want around. Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Does that make sense?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I just. I mean, how many people do you have that check on you and, like, invite you to things and you're a handful. You've been nice to thousands of people in Your life.

[A]

Yeah, but I mean, People are nice when they engage with me, so. Yeah. I take that as acceptance.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, something different for you, Someone.

[B]

Being nice to me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I just assume they have manners. I don't think they've made a decision about me or my character.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, that's where you're wrong.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think most people I interact with are nice to me.

[A]

That's.

[B]

I think that's pretty par for the course.

[A]

Yeah, but I mean, like, like friends of friends or like meeting somebody new and things like that. Like.

[B]

I think most people are. Ask me, I don't assume any of them like me or would invite me anywhere.

[A]

But why wouldn't they if they.

[B]

They have manners? The same reason you had somebody staying in our house. And as soon as that person left, I was like, don't care for that person.

[A]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[B]

I was nice to her. I treated her with kindness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I have zero desire to spend another second with that person.

[A]

Yeah, but you also weren't really. I guess there's different ways, right? Like, yeah, if somebody likes me, then they're. They're going out of their way to engage with me.

[B]

How do you know if someone's going out of their way.

[A]

More than manners?

[B]

And how do you know that they're doing that?

[A]

Yeah, just more than just like the basic of, like, how are you, hey, what's going on? You know, that kind of stuff. Like. Or, you know, again, like, checking in on you or something like that. Like, that's going out of your way. That's more than manners.

[B]

Right, but like, friends of friends are going to check up on you.

[A]

Why not?

[B]

Oh, because then they're your friends.

[A]

Yeah. That's how you make friends.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Right. Sure.

[B]

But you also hate people checking up on you because you feel like a burden and an annoyance. Yeah, but you want them to.

[A]

I want them to. I don't want them to feel obligated to check in on me. There's a difference.

[B]

Well, you can't control their feelings, but. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

No, but I can tell when that's happening.

[B]

No, you can't.

[A]

Pretty good at it.

[B]

Can you listen to the first couple minutes of this episode and get. Get in your fucking, I don't know phase?

[A]

I'm talking about, like, if I post something again, like, okay, so I posted that video the other day. I told you. I was like, hey, I. I didn't think this was a sad video. Turns out it's a sad video. That wasn't my intention, but everybody's taking it that way. I. If I post something like that and somebody I haven't heard from in a while, they send me a message or something that. That's obligation for me. I'm like, oh, you think you need to check on me because you saw this. This thing? That's what I'm saying. Like, oh, I can tell sometimes when it's like, they can't.

[B]

You think you can?

[A]

I just proved it.

[B]

You didn't prove anything. You gave a scenario and said, I know exactly how that person feels. No, you don't. You're assuming you're telling yourself a story that you know. You don't know. You could be right. You also could be wrong. And that's. I don't know. Right.

[A]

But why would they do it? Why would they.

[B]

Maybe they just. You hadn't cr. And they're like, oh, Malone, I was checking on him. They may not even watch the video.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

Whoops. Oh, dude. We got. We stopped telling ourselves a story and we got there. Are you taking maka yet?

[A]

I. I am, and it's pretty cool. Yeah, I'm only on day three.

[B]

Yeah. On which one are you taking? You on the black. Yeah, I do the black too. I do the black and I do the tri blend.

[A]

Oooh, you do two.

[B]

I do two.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Technically three, because the blend is a blend of three. Okay, well, so if you don't know about maca, it is a root native to Peru. It grows in three colors. Black, red, and yellow. Or yellow. Or yellow. Yellow or yellow. I take the black and I take the tri blend. My girl takes the red, and you take the black.

[A]

I do.

[B]

Typically, yeah. Men take the black, women take the red, and then you intersperse the tribal and. But it has a lot of benefits. I've been taking it daily for a little over a year. I have noticed a lot mood, skin, hair, energy. If you've heard testosterone, you know, libido. I've had a lot of improvements.

[A]

Yeah, all true.

[B]

And we get. Well, I get our. I get my maca. And I have been from a company called the maca team. They are the biggest supplier of genuine maca from Peru. The biggest supplier in America. And they are nice enough to partner with. Partner with us and give a discount code. If you want to try out maca, you can go to the macateam.com secondhand therapy and you can use code bear cub for 10 off.

[A]

Oh, fancy.

[B]

So, yeah, if you want to try some maca, try it out Dudes, try the black. Ladies, try the red. Or try the try. But at least go to the website, read about it, see if you might want to do it. It's not pharmaceutical. It's all natural. I've been taking it for over a year. I like it. You're three days in, you're less annoying. So we did it.

[A]

We did it.

[B]

Themaka team.com Secondhand therapy. Check it out.

[A]

Hey, if you're tired of hearing these ads, which I'm sure you are, you should head on over to Patreon. There are ad free episodes and early access to two episodes. You could be hearing this a week early along with accident, along with access to an entirely different podcast. Some would say a better one called the other shit show.

[B]

It is fun.

[A]

It's non therapy related.

[B]

It is fun.

[A]

Super fun. Plus you have early access to my new podcast series, Happy Not Funny. And it's ad free episodes on that as well. Plus merch discounts. Also fun live show things where we interact with the audience.

[B]

Live streams is what he's trying to say.

[A]

We are not going on tour. Yeah, that's true. What did I say?

[B]

You said live shows.

[A]

Well, same same. You know, it's like a live show. Nope, it's like a zoom.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Anyways, you'll have access to us in a more intimate manner.

[B]

Intimate.

[A]

How about that?

[B]

Intimate. There's no end.

[A]

Yeah, like the candidate, like the candy.

[B]

Intimate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Also, if you sign up, you get a little treat.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

So check out the different tiers. One of the tiers is just if you're just here for secondhand therapy, you want no ads, we'll send you a dope little sticker. And I'm gonna be honest with you, a lot of time went into designing this sticker. Yeah, too much. You can argue. Too much dope sticker though. So if you sign up for that tier, we'll send you a sticker. The next tier, if you want the other podcast, if you want bonus stuff from secondhand therapy, all the little extras, you get the sticker and we are going to send you a signed print designed by yours truly. That took way too much time. Still way too much time. We'll sign it, we'll send it out to you. And then we have the top tier with the live streams. If you want to hang out with us a couple times a month, you get the sticker, the print, and we'll send you a T shirt that we are not selling or getting anywhere else. So check out Patreon. If you sign up, you get some treats. And it's a good way to support the podcast.

[A]

We'll see you over there.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

I listened this. This is fucking crazy. We're talking about this because the thing in my book this morning about fawning was just talking about that, about how feelings are real and the stories we attach them are not. So, like, the example they gave is, if you're in a relationship and you've both been busy and things just feel a little bit off between you because you've been busy and you haven't been able to, you know, really connect with each other, that feeling of loneliness is real, or that feeling of disconnect is real. But the story that you're telling yourself is, oh, this person has lost interest in me, or, oh, they're too busy for me, or they're this or they're that. Like, that's not real. It could be. You know, I mean, like. But that's something you got to check in on. And so oftentimes what we're doing is what I just did, where it's like, oh, they. This feeling of obligation, or like, me feeling like, oh, they. They must be obligated. That's a real feeling. But that story might not. Be.

[B]

So it sounds. What book is this?

[A]

Are you mad at me?

[B]

Interesting. It sounds like it should be called feelings aren't facts. Are you. Are you learning that feelings aren't facts?

[A]

I'm getting there. Wow. I'm getting there.

[B]

You've only been fighting me on it for two years. You.

[A]

I'm getting there.

[B]

You know, the feelings are real, but the story. Huh.

[A]

Well, that's.

[B]

What. Can we say it a different way?

[A]

And that's what you've been doing for a couple years.

[B]

Aren'T facts. Jesus Christ.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Hallelujah. I feel great.

[A]

Now, do I know that for sure or not? I don't know.

[B]

Telling you.

[A]

Okay, good.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, my God. You finally got feelings.

[A]

Art.

[B]

Facts. I'm so happy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My work here is done.

[A]

I mean, well, when. When you put it like that.

[B]

What?

[A]

It makes it feel like the feelings aren't real. If the feelings are real.

[B]

Huh?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're not facts.

[A]

So stories aren't facts?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

See, feelings aren't facts.

[B]

That I feel like he's mad at me. It's not a fact that he's mad at me. Feelings aren't facts, but that feeling is real. Sure.

[A]

Okay. All right. That's where I've been hung up this whole time. I thought you've been saying that those feelings aren't like you're disregarding everything. Like, it's just like, oh, you feel angry. That's not real, man. And it's like, no, I do feel angry.

[B]

Would you like to explain to all of us the confusion so we know you're not stupid? Did you want to listen to the beginning of the episode again?

[A]

No, I don't.

[B]

You could because you're doing all the things. What? What? Explain it to me again. Why? Why? It was my fault, you didn't understand it. Please.

[A]

Well, yeah, I don't think I need to again. I think you're smart enough to get it.

[B]

I thank you.

[A]

Who?

[B]

Feelings aren't facts. Hallelujah. What else? What else you got?

[A]

Let me ask you a question about your mom, Jay.

[B]

What was your mom's favorite food? Oh, man, I don't know.

[A]

I mean, she only made five different things. We've been over this.

[B]

But what was her favorite thing to eat?

[A]

She loved deviled eggs.

[B]

Okay. What was her favorite movie?

[A]

I don't know. I don't know. I would imagine it's one of those old timey things like Gone to the Wind or something like that.

[B]

So you don't know?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Okay. What was. Was like a hobby or something that brought her joy.

[A]

She liked painting.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know any of this about my mom.

[A]

How do you. How.

[B]

That'S what I was talking about in therapy this week. Because I pulled the. The seance thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like, gaining clarity on my relationship with my mom. And I was talking about. I was like, I don't. I don't feel like I know my mom that well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I feel sad about that. Like, favorite food. Couldn't tell you. Favorite movie, Couldn't tell you. And you know what? You know what makes. You know what doesn't make me sad? You know what? I feel more sad. I don't think she knows either. I think if I asked her what her favorite food was, I think she would give me five different things. Yeah. I'd be like, but you can only pick one. What's your favorite? She'd be like, ah, yeah. I don't know. You know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm. Yeah, I don't know. We were talking about, like, I think that's a good place to start is trying to get to know my mom.

[A]

You never had that age where you, you became like friends because there's like a parental thing going growing up. Right. Where it's just kind of like she's the warden. But then, like, you get to a certain age and it and you're like peers. You never got to that with your mom?

[B]

Well, my mom had a whole life outside of me, so again, we had very different childhoods. My guy.

[A]

That's a very common thing, though, for people to get older and become friends more than parent type relation dynamics, you.

[B]

Know what I mean?

[A]

You never had that phase with her?

[B]

I don't know if I did. We didn't get close.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know. Not when I was a kid. I mean, she was a provider. Yeah, we've talked about that a million times.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So maybe when you get older and you bought your first house or something like it, you're not, like, becoming more friendly.

[B]

I mean, she's not, like, raising me anymore. Our relationship evolves. But I don't know. You got like that with your mom?

[A]

My whole life was like that with my mom.

[B]

Then why don't you know more about her?

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

I just asked you the question. You don't know.

[A]

I just told you everything. Besides, what was the last question?

[B]

All right, you don't have to get the fence.

[A]

You're the one calling me out.

[B]

I'm not calling you out. I'm saying your mom being your best friend doesn't mean that you were treating her as if she was yours.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

That's all I'm saying.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So what do you. So what's the plan? How are you going to ease into this?

[B]

Gotta date my mom, bro.

[A]

I know you're checking in more.

[B]

Yeah, I was taught. And that's what my therapist was saying. She's like, yeah, you. I was like, talking about just these simple questions. Like, I don't, like, I just don't know her that well. And my therapist is like, yeah, these are, like, questions you would bring in couples therapy when couples have, like, roommate phased and, like, they're just existing together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she's like. And that's a really good idea. She's like, you guys can just. You can just figure out what she likes. I'm like, yeah. I don't know why it sounds so weird, but you're.

[A]

You are interested in it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[B]

It'd be great to feel like I know my, like, who she is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

As a person outside of a mother, I love this. Yeah.

[A]

I couldn't be happier for you, buddy.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I'm so excited.

[B]

Why? I don't.

[A]

I just. I want you to have a closer relationship with her.

[B]

Yeah, that'd be cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So when I go, what's your favorite food? She'd be like, I don't know. I'll be like, God damn it.

[A]

I know. You're gonna be like. That's it. I'm not asking.

[B]

We're not standing up from this table till you pick something. All right? No, we're not watching csi. Let's get a real television show. Expand your horizons. But I like it. No, you don't.

[A]

Yeah, that's gonna. I mean, man, you gotta.

[B]

Yeah, it was a weird. I don't remember how we got there, but. Yeah, once I realized I just don't feel like I know her. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's a bummer.

[A]

Yeah. You guys don't. It doesn't seem like you guys share a lot with each other.

[B]

No, no, not depth. That's what we've talked about before. Like. Yeah, I'm a 20 footer going under, under the water and she's. She's not getting her hair wet, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I. And that's what we've talked about. Either I need to accept that that's how she swims, or I gotta see if she wants to just come under a foot even. And whatever she chooses is. I have to accept it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Can you dunk her a couple times?

[B]

I don't know if I'm allowed to water border.

[A]

I think you can, Dunker. Yeah. I think you're gonna have to.

[B]

I'm sure I will.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. Yeah. I just want to see a Simon Dunker. Better call Salt.

[A]

Season one.

[B]

You can watch the whole thing. Yeah. I don't know, man.

[A]

What about other family? Are you. Do you know about other family members?

[B]

I have a really small family. I know a little bit more about my sister. You want to know the most ironic bit of it?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I know the most about my dad, I think. Really? Yep. Because he's. He's always just been like a buddy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's like the complete other side of the spectrum with him.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah. Weird.

[A]

Yeah. Do you have interest in learning about other people in your family besides your mom or getting closer with anyone or learning family history and those kind of things?

[B]

I don't give a. About family. Like, what do you mean, family history?

[A]

Like, when I was working on that thing with Colin, like, it was super interesting what he was working on. It made me interested in, like, where my family came from and, like, what they did.

[B]

And Sicily. I know that. Sicily Air Force drywall. Yeah, I know all that.

[A]

Yeah. But I mean, like, the workings of the fam. Like, I know my grandmother's first job and, like, all about her relationship with her first husband and things like that. Like. Like learning that kind of history.

[B]

Not just, like, yeah, I could be interested in that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I only have one grandma left. She was married to one guy. He's been dead for 25 years. Yeah. And she's never been with anybody else.

[A]

That's how my grandma was.

[B]

Well, you said first marriage, so.

[A]

No, I mean, she. She got married at, like, 18.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

One of those nice. Married for a couple of years. Yeah.

[B]

And then never got married again.

[A]

Got married one other time, was with him for the rest of her life, and then he passed. And then she never. Never even thought about another man. It was like one of those relationships where, like, my grandfather bought or built her house kind of thing. Like back when, like, men used to do that. We're like, I'm gonna build as a place to live. And so she was like, no other man's gonna come in here.

[B]

And like, what does that mean? What do you mean? It's that kind of relationship. What does that mean?

[A]

Like, those old school relationships where, like, the man would, like, build a house for the family, like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Seems like, wild to think about it.

[B]

Seems like the times. I guess. I don't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Quantify that as, like, a type of relationship.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah, it seems like a generation type thing.

[A]

It's definitely a generation type thing. But, like, I feel like that's a deeper love when you're. You're building the place for your family to. To raise a family. Like, that's got to be a. A deeper love. Right.

[B]

Than I would argue that's a shallower love. How. Because that's how you're showing love. It's like, I'm gonna build you a house. You know, you haven't told me I'm pretty in 10 years. Oh, oh, what's that porch you're standing on? Like, that kind of thing.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Like, that's how they show love.

[A]

That generation also was a little bit like that. You got food on the table, don't you? Yeah, of course I love you. Right.

[B]

So when you say deeper love, I'm like, maybe that. Maybe it felt that way.

[A]

I was looking at it a very romantic way about being like, dude, you're.

[B]

Hey, I've heard you talk about your. The women in your life. Yeah, No, I know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are you tired of staring at your phone? Are you addicted to it?

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Are you?

[A]

Yeah. Well, yeah, like everybody else. Sure.

[B]

Okay. All right, well, I got a new. Let me tell these people about my new phone.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

It's called the light phone.

[A]

Oh, I've heard about that.

[B]

The light. Yeah, you seem to use it. The light phone. Also known some people call it a dumb phone. Anyway, it's a smartphone, it has Internet, but the Internet will only get you navigation. There is no email, there is no social media, nothing like that. It does calls, it does texts, it does navigation, it has a calendar and a flashlight.

[A]

It's like having a BlackBerry again.

[B]

Kinda.

[A]

Oh yeah, I love that.

[B]

It has a pretty cool camera too. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, it's got a dope camera on it. It's got a camera. Yeah. Anyway, they were nice enough, they sent us a little discount code if anybody wants to get on the light phone train with us. So there's a link in the episode description for the light phone. And then if you want to pre order the light phone 3 use code. Secondhand therapy, all lowercase. Try out a light phone. It's pretty great.

[A]

Stop your doom scrolling.

[B]

Stop your doom scrolling. Be more present in life. Link down below. Promo code. Secondhand therapy, all lowercase. Check out a light phone. Join us in the present world.

[A]

We were talking about, of course, mom.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he, you know, we got back around to like the motivation of my mother and it was always fear. And she was so scared of everything.

[B]

And.

[A]

I was telling him, I was like, I just want her shut up. This is coming back around, so just shut up.

[B]

I'll push my microphone away.

[A]

I was like, I just want her to, to be less scared. I want her to try new things. I want her to be better. I see so much life that she's missing out on. I see so much potential that she was missing out on. And I was like, I just want her to realize that and to see how capable and strong she is. And that made me think, can I.

[B]

Bring my microphone back?

[A]

Of our relationship.

[B]

Did it? Wow. Why say more?

[A]

Because I know that you, you get frustrated with me and you, you challenge me and you push back all the time and these things, but I would assume this is the story that I'm telling myself, that it's the same thing that you want me to see, that I'm more capable, that you want me to see that I'm missing out on things. You want me to be less scared and to just. Be better. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

You're terrified of life. Drives me crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. But you, you do have a leg up on your mom in that.

[A]

You.

[B]

You, you find loopholes at least.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, yeah, your mom didn't leave no, like the county. Yeah. Like you'll leave somewhere and. And you're gonna do the same exact routine and eat the same exact places.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But at least you'll go somewhere.

[A]

I'm somewhere new. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Look at this. Subway. No. Go to a local deli.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So you. You found some loopholes, but you'll. You'll do a little bit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was. I was in New York.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At Subway. But you're at Subway still.

[A]

Yeah. Doesn't matter.

[B]

I say to the same Airbnb as last time. What do you. I love it there.

[A]

I love it there. Why would I be any. Why would I do anything different?

[B]

Get out of Brooklyn. What if you stay on the Upper west side? Do you think I like. I know what I like. I don't know why that's a problem.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It drives me crazy.

[A]

Hey, man.

[B]

You are your mother.

[A]

I. I know.

[B]

We know this.

[A]

I know you know. I don't want to be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't want to be.

[B]

Why don't you want to be? Oops. I didn't mean to do that.

[A]

Stepped on a landmine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, I've never thought about that.

[B]

Yeah. Why don't you want to be your mother? She's so perfect.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's the best person that's ever lived.

[A]

So she's a saint. You keep her name out of your mouth.

[B]

So she's a saint. What's the problem? That you're exactly like her. Don't hide behind that micro.

[A]

Put your head up. I don't want to.

[B]

This is what we signed up for. We started a goddamn podcast.

[A]

I don't know why.

[B]

I know I regret it. Same.

[A]

I could be doing dick jokes on a cruise ship right now. Instead, yep, I'm here with you. Talking about my mom.

[B]

Yep. So why do you hate her?

[A]

I don't hate her.

[B]

I know.

[A]

That was a test.

[B]

She's a saint. But why is it so upsetting that you're exactly like her?

[A]

You're gonna love this.

[B]

Don't. You don't know how I'm gonna feel. I'm nervous.

[A]

She wasn't enough.

[B]

For whom?

[A]

For the version of her that I wanted her to be. I would like to say for herself, but I don't know. That maybe she was very happy with the way she was. I know she wasn't, but.

[B]

So she wasn't enough for you?

[A]

Yeah, but not. Not in a caretaker way. In. I wanted her to stand up for herself more. I want her to be bolder. I want her to Be more fearless. I want her to travel more. I wanted her to know her worth. A lot of things that I wanted for her that she didn't want for herself. Maybe she didn't know how to get there. But. Yeah, that's the broad stroke is just wasn't enough.

[B]

Yeah. And that translates to, you're not enough.

[A]

Yeah. I'm really hard on myself. Yeah. I have the programming. I've. I have. That's not true. I was going to say I have all the worst programmings from her, but I don't. I have the good ones too. That's not fair. But I got a lot of bad ones. I saw how she talked to herself and talked to myself the same way. I saw how she treated herself and treat myself the same way. Yeah. And I didn't like it for her. And I don't know why it's acceptable for me. It shouldn't be.

[B]

Why is it?

[A]

Fear, my friend. Fear.

[B]

What you've heard of.

[A]

Do you want to listen to the first part of the episode? Not being liked, not being accepted, being thought of as rude or. Yeah, but it's dumb or.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Flawed or.

[B]

I don't understand how not trying new things makes you likable.

[A]

Yeah. You want to be adventurous. You want to say yes to life, but you don't. I know.

[B]

How does that make people. How does that ensure people are going to like you?

[A]

I. I do things that I don't want to do all the time.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's how I ensure that they like me because I'm doing the things that they want to do. So I'm getting better at it. I'm getting better at saying no. Somebody forget who I was talking to. About a week ago, they invited me to something. I was like, no. Like, right away. And they were like, oh, damn, that was fat. And I was like, yeah, I don't want to do that. They were like, oh, okay. There's no reason to sugar. Like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I'm coming around to that idea of like, instead of saying maybe or I'll think about it or that sounds fun. Just being honest from the jump and being like, nah, that's not for me. And that's hard. That's the hardest thing. That's harder than anything else I've done is just being like, no, I don't want to do that.

[B]

We're getting off on a tangent. I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So you're saying one of the things that is frustrating about your mom that you're seeing in yourself is a reluctance to go out of your comfort zone, essentially.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the reason you don't is a fear. And the fear is not being liked.

[A]

Yeah, the fear of failure.

[B]

Okay, so not going out of your comfort zone means people are going to like you. Why?

[A]

No, that doesn't mean that they're going to like me, but if I go and it up for them, that means they're definitely not going to like me.

[B]

What do you mean for them?

[A]

Hey, do you want to go paintballing? I've never been, so I'm gonna go and I'm not gonna know what I'm doing, and I'm gonna it up and I'm gonna cause us to lose or whatever, and then they're gonna be like, don't take that guy paintballing anymore. Him. He. He doesn't know how to do it right. So what I would say no.

[B]

What if it's not involving somebody else? What if instead of going to Subway, it's going to a local sandwich shop you've never been to?

[A]

Yeah, that's different. That's stomach stuff. Yeah, that's all. That's all stomach stuff.

[B]

That's not like, okay, staying in a different Airbnb the last time.

[A]

That's just comfort. That's not it up for anybody else. That's just. I tried this thing and it worked. So the fear of messing it up again or going somewhere new and it not being as good, why would I do that if I found this thing that already works? That's where my head's at.

[B]

What it was better.

[A]

Could be in my head, in my programming is it's always going to be worse. My mother has taught me that it's always going to be worse. And so that's the programming you need to stop there is like, yeah, why would I. Why would I risk it when I already found this thing that's great. Or, you know, whatever that I enjoy? So I'm gonna go somewhere new and it's gonna be. What if it's a bad thing? I need to be okay with it being a bad thing. And that's hard, especially when I know that this other choice is already a good thing.

[B]

So if it is a bad thing, then that means what.

[A]

Could ruin the trip and waste my time?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. Be a waste.

[B]

And then.

[A]

I think that all goes into, like, permission of. Of wasting time. Permission of time.

[B]

So that has nothing to do with anybody else. That's all you.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Why aren't you allowed to waste time?

[A]

Got Too much to do. Too much to do. And also, there's a splash of. We've talked about this before, but, like, productivity is acceptance and love and all that stuff, which I know it isn't, but, dude, this goes back to, like, tell my body that there are moments where I am relaxing in my room, not doing a goddamn thing, and I'll hear you guys come home, and I'll be like, I got to be doing something, and I will start working or start reading a book or start making my bed or doing what?

[B]

Like, even though we can't see you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, that's crazy.

[A]

Just in case you guys were to be like, what are you doing? I'm doing something.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's a bummer.

[A]

Yeah, dude. And my body is just like. And if I don't. If I force myself to sit there, I am so uneasy. I'm like, buddy, what if they come in here and you're just sitting here? What if I can't be doing that?

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because you'll be like, this guy just sits around. You know what I mean? If I wouldn't check him alone, he's just sitting there. Like, can you imagine? Can you imagine somebody being like, oh, I'm just sitting there? Hey, man, not me. I know that's crazy.

[B]

It's a real fun story you're telling yourself. There's.

[A]

It is. Yeah, I know. I know that's crazy, but that's. My body is just, like, on edge.

[B]

What happens if you try to just sit with it?

[A]

Oh, man. It almost gets to, like. Like, anxiety just takes over, and it's almost like, panic. The other night, this is just, like, the most recent thing, I brought my motorcycle battery in from the Vulcan, and I had it in the guest room, and I had it charging there. The other day I saw it, and I unplugged it and just left it there because nobody's ever in there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But we had a guest coming, and so I was watching a documentary in my room, just chilling, chilling, chilling, my guy. And I heard you guys go into that guest room.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, that battery's on the floor. They're gonna see that. But, like, they're gonna see that that battery is, like, taking up space.

[B]

And, like, I did see that battery on the floor.

[A]

I know you did. I know you did. I'm like, oh, no. Oh, no.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

And I'm like, I have to tell them that, like, I'm. That's not where that's going to stay. Like, it's. It was just there. From the other day. And I'm like, I'm going to move it. And, like, the panic that I had of just like, that can't be there.

[B]

But it was.

[A]

I know.

[B]

You didn't say any of that.

[A]

I forced myself to just sit. I had. I turned off the documentary and just sat. And like. Like, I was like, they're gonna come knock on my door any second now. I have to be ready. You didn't.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Hey, spoiler alert. You didn't. And I just sat there, tensed up, being like, I'm not your mom.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I gotta tell him that I'm gonna move that battery.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I didn't say anything, but as soon as you guys left that room, bet your ass I move that battery.

[B]

Yeah. Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's got to be exhausting.

[A]

Hey. Yeah. How do you fix that?

[B]

You face the anger you have with your mother.

[A]

She's a saint. I keep telling you that.

[B]

I know. But interestingly, she's still terrorizing you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So let's say it was your mom. What would have happened? You left the battery out, and the guest room was getting made up for somebody.

[A]

She would have came in and she like, michael, that battery is out. We have guests coming this week. I know. I'm gonna move it. Well, I'm just telling you. I know, mom. I'm gonna move it. Okay. And then literally, like, probably a half hour later, she would come and be like, did you move that battery? I'm gonna move it. They're not gonna be here till Friday. I'm gonna move it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then it's just a back and forth. And then she will go take care of that battery. And then I'll be like, I came in. Where's the battery? I told you to move it. I get. Can't you just let me do it? And then it's a. A thing. Yeah. So it is a. I said, I'll do it. I'm gonna do it. God forbid you do it for me.

[B]

Why God forbid they do it for you?

[A]

Because then I'm like, then it's a burden thing. Then it's like a. I said I was gonna do it. Let me do it. And me saying that I'm gonna do it doesn't mean that I need you to do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because then I'm a burden. Then it's like. And then again, it rolls back into acceptance. And everything else about, like, don't bring this guy around.

[B]

So what stops you from just doing it real quick?

[A]

I don't know. I've been better at that. I've been better at like just doing it. I have been. I've been trying to be conscious about like, just do the thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I don't know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because to me, it's not a big deal.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But it's not about me. Yeah.

[B]

I'm getting better at it.

[A]

I am. Well, it's something I'm working on. So I'm like. I've been consciously being like, just do the thing. Yeah, just do it right now. Just do it right now.

[B]

Damn. I should have knocked on your door. That have been a fun game. Like, hey, I'm just gonna do that.

[A]

This battery doing here.

[B]

I know. I'm just gonna be like, hey, can you come get this battery? And you'll be like, it hasn't been there for four days. Did I leave it there? And just your mind up.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I'll record and post it.

[A]

Join Patreon.

[B]

Join Patreon, you guys. And we know that. Jesus.

[A]

That's a bear.

[B]

It's not.