Coping, Eating Disorders and a Helicopter Ride | #042 Replay

Summary

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Secondhand Therapy #042 Replay: Coping, Eating Disorders and a Helicopter Ride

Podcast: Secondhand Therapy
Hosts: Louie Paoletti and Michael Malone
Guest: Jenny Zagrino (comedian)
Release Date: December 29, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this replay episode, Louie and Michael are joined by comedian Jenny Zagrino for a raw, funny, and heartfelt conversation exploring grief, eating disorders, body image, and personal growth. Jenny shares intimate stories about the loss of her sister, her ongoing relationship with disordered eating, the complexities of fat camp, and her experiences with body shame and parental expectations. The trio blend candid self-reflection with humor, offering listeners validation, insight, and companionship on the messy journey of healing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Grief, Helicopter Rides, and Family Rituals

Timestamps: 06:28–12:21

• Jenny shares the surreal and darkly humorous experience of her family disposing of her sister’s ashes from a helicopter for the one-year anniversary of her death.
• She describes asserting her boundaries by refusing to board the helicopter due to discomfort with both the weight limit and her mother’s body-shaming comments.
• The makeshift contraption her mother created for releasing the ashes led to ashes blowing back into the helicopter—a moment simultaneously tragic and absurd.

Jenny: "This is the thing they don't tell you about ashes. They get everywhere." (10:21)

• The segment balances grief with laughter, showcasing how humor can coexist with pain.

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2. Experiences with Eating Disorders

Timestamps: 12:23–15:25, 20:32–31:55

• Jenny openly discusses her lifelong struggles with binge eating and bulimia, her journey through outpatient recovery, and how pandemic stress exacerbated her challenges.
• She critiques how treatment often lumps binge eaters with anorexics, resulting in counterproductive communal meals and invalidated experiences.

Jenny: "One of the things you do is you have meal time, and everyone has to have a full meal... Meanwhile, all the binge eaters are like, we finished our food. What am I supposed to do in 25 minutes?" (13:13)

• The trio explore the cultural reinforcement of binge/restrict cycles, the normalization of “cheat days,” and the confusion and shame around what counts as disordered eating.

Jenny: "It's a feeling of being out of control when you're eating... To everyone else, they're like, that's normal; to me, that would send me into a spiral." (26:05)

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3. Trauma and the “Fat Camp” Era

Timestamps: 15:26–19:08

• Jenny provides a biting critique of fat camps in the 1990s—low-fat diets, excessive exercise, public weigh-ins, and the lack of emotional care.
• She reveals the damaging legacy of parental “pre-bullying” and the way shame gets embedded even in attempts to protect kids.

Jenny: "Your mother who doesn't want you to get bullied, so calls you, tells you you're fat every day... so you'll lose weight so you don't get bullied." (17:07)

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4. Restriction, Binge Cycles, and Orthorexia

Timestamps: 19:12–20:32, 26:05–27:42

• The group breaks down binge eating as a response to cycles of restriction.
• They introduce orthorexia, or the compulsive pursuit of “wellness,” as a newer form of disordered eating—when dietary rules become so rigid that they interfere with life and relationships.

Jenny: "If your eating habits are ruining your way of life... that's a disorder of some kind." (28:05)

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5. Intuitive Eating & Letting Go of Diet Culture

Timestamps: 31:08–34:43

• Jenny explains intuitive eating and the process of relearning body cues lost through years of dieting.
• They discuss the importance of giving oneself unconditional permission to eat, gentle movement, and focusing on pleasure and satisfaction rather than restriction.

Jenny: "My body is my roommate. It pays the rent. It does what it's supposed to do. I don't have to love it, but it's here." (40:11)

• The hosts and Jenny admit that even knowing these concepts, the emotional pull of weight loss desires and body shame persist.

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6. Societal & Parental Pressures

Timestamps: 43:28–48:55

• Jenny unpacks the origins of her internalized “I need to be smaller” voice—both from her mother’s explicit comments and relentless societal pressure, including media figures like Oprah.
• They discuss the toxic pursuit of thinness, impossible body standards, and the paradox of fat acceptance influencers now promoting weight loss drugs like Ozempic.

Jenny: "I had parents who... to this day, when I talk to her about issues with work: 'Well, you're the heaviest you've ever been, Jenny. Maybe that's why you're not getting work.' So I hear it." (45:39)

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7. Recovery, Relapse & Coping Mechanisms

Timestamps: 49:01–58:22

• Jenny shares the difficulty and shame of admitting to her partner that her eating disorder has resurfaced, fearing judgment and that she is a “fraud.”
• She discusses how food can feel like the best coping mechanism for grief and stress—comparing the “Burger King in the car” moments to grounding rituals.
• The therapeutic challenge: navigating medical conditions (like endometriosis) that may necessitate dietary restriction, without triggering the eating disorder.

Jenny: "There's nothing that feels better as a coping mechanism than the addiction... for me, the coping mechanism of food—there's never going to be something as good." (57:41)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Humor and Grief

• Jenny: "In the one hour I am eating my sister, and I'm supposed to be on this diet. My eating disorder is really out of control right now." (12:01)

On Treatment Limitations

• Jenny: "I was talking about how I got sent to fat camp... like the whole concept... was traumatic and pretty abusive... but I wasn't allowed to talk about it at the table because it would trigger the other girls." (14:29)

On Diet Culture

• Jenny: "I was put on a diet at six... and I've been dieting since, so of course I have completely lost the ability to know what I want, when I'm full, when I'm hungry." (32:48)

On Fat Acceptance vs. Weight Loss Pressures

• Jenny: "A lot of the influencers are going on injections... and a lot of us in the community are feeling super abandoned." (51:08)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Grief & Helicopter Ashes: 06:28–12:21
• Eating Disorder Histories: 12:23–15:25, 20:32–31:55
• Fat Camp, Parental Influence: 15:26–19:08, 43:28–48:55
• Intuitive Eating Explained: 31:08–34:43
• Society and Shame: 43:28–48:55
• Recovery, Relapse, and Coping: 49:01–58:22

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Tone & Style

The episode is unfiltered, funny, and deeply honest, blending vulnerability and laughter in the face of grief and lifelong body image struggles. Louie and Michael’s banter keeps it light even as Jenny leads with frankness about her pain and recovery. The trio reject easy answers in favor of real talk, and their chemistry provides levity and warmth throughout challenging topics.

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Summary for New Listeners

By the episode's end, listeners will have encountered stories of loss, family absurdities, and the exhausting burden of eating disorders—presented with remarkable candor and humor. If you want to hear people grapple publicly with shame, self-love, societal pressure, relapse, and the search for peace with their bodies, this conversation offers both hard truths and hope.

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Transcript

[A]

Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com Secondhand TherapyPod this episode of.

[B]

Secondhand Therapy is sponsored by BetterHelp. Yes, BetterHelp is an online resource for therapy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't know who would have guessed it. I don't know if you know about the show, but we're actually very pro therapy around here. Very pro therapy.

[A]

That is the rumor that's going around.

[B]

It's helped me a lot.

[A]

Tell me more.

[B]

It really has. You don't notice a change in me, Is that what you're saying?

[A]

I do.

[B]

Okay, then has it helped you?

[A]

Absolutely. I'm in Better Help right now and my therapist is awesome.

[B]

Your therapist sounds pretty great. I'm not gonna lie.

[A]

He did. I'm so happy with him. And like whenever we have to reschedule or something changes, it's so easy. It's like literally like two, two clicks and it's done.

[B]

I have to call mine. It's terrible. But here's what I will say. I was always very much an in person therapy kind of set up for myself. Yeah, I'm on telehealth now.

[A]

Way better. Oh, yeah, dude.

[B]

Doing therapy like from your couch or like where you're in your space where you're comfortable? Dude, I'm. I'm doing way better.

[A]

That's one of the best parts of Better Help is that I get to do it from my cozy little corner chair.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Dim the lights. I light a candle. It is therapy time. Yeah.

[B]

I don't ever want to go back to a therapy office again. So that's where we're at now. Since they are a new sponsor of ours, they were nice enough to give us a little discount code for you to use. So a little treat.

[A]

Yeah. If.

[B]

If you're hearing this, maybe you're in between insurance and you would like to start some therapy. Or maybe you've never been to therapy and you really want to try it out. Better helps a really good start. They make it easy to find and pair up with somebody and it's very affordable. So if you want to give it a shot, you can use the discount code they gave us. You can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy or just betterhelp.com and it'll ask you where you heard about it. Choose Secondhand Therapy. They'll give you 10% off your first month. Try it out. Start your healing journey. Change my life. To change your life.

[A]

Changed.

[B]

He's changing. Changing.

[A]

Hello, my little bear. Cubs, it is me, Mama bear, the Maloney pony, the king of two things. Welcome back to Secondhand Therapy. We are still on our holiday break, so you're about to hear a replay. This replay is featuring Jenny Zagrino, very good friend of the show, very good friend of ours. We love her so much. This is actually her first appearance on the show. She's been on the on here with us twice. This is from her first appearance. We talk about grief, we talk about self image, all kinds of fun stuff. I love this episode. You're gonna love this episode. And actually Jenny is raising money right now for her comedy special. She's shooting a brand new comedy special about some of the things we just talked about. Grief, starting over and family and all kinds of fun stuff. So if you want to help Jenny out, seek her out on all her social media. It is Jenny Zagrino. Go find her. Before we get into anything, I need to remind you that we are not therapists. We are not experts. This is not a substitute for therapy. This is not professional advice in any way. It wasn't then, it isn't now. So there's that. Fucking nailed it, dude. I nailed it. I'm here by myself. Anyways, welcome to the show. You are going to hear some ads. Make sure you join us over on Patreon for ad free episodes. You get episodes when they come out a little, a little early. You get to hear them early Friday instead of Monday. Look at that. You also get access to our other podcasts, our non therapy podcast called the Other Shit Show. It's way better than this show in my opinion. Anyways, maybe you'll like it, maybe you don't. Anyways, there's a bunch of episodes over there. I think there's over 50 episodes. We might be in the 60s now. Hey, there's a lot of episodes to catch up on. So if you're looking for more of just like a hangout and ball busting and us just being friends, head on over to Patreon and check out the other shit show. We have merch available. We have some nice earth tone hoodies. They're very nice. They're very cozy. We have tie dye stuff, we got tote bags, we got all kinds of stuff happening over there. There is an app. Now there's an app, Lou has a motivation coaching app. So if you thought, hey, I love this guy, I wish he was in my pocket. Well now you can fucking have that. You can check all of that out@secondhand therapypod.com. you get links to all of that stuff. And you can check us out on Patreon free episodes and I think I forgot this last time, but you can contact us. All the information is linked in our. In the episode description or it's here on the screen. If you're watching this on YouTube, you can send us physical mail. You can send us text messages, voice notes, anything you want. And sometimes we use it on air. I think that's it. I think that's it. That's all the messaging I have for you. Check us out on Patreon. We hope you had a great little Christmas or holiday or what, however you celebrate, we hope it was wonderful. We love you, we miss you and we'll see you very soon. Enjoy this replay featuring Jenny Zagrino.

[B]

Hello, my little bear cubs.

[A]

And welcome back secondhand therapy.

[C]

And we know that, yeah, tomorrow. Tomorrow's therapy day. And we, her and I have a lot to talk about.

[B]

Yeah, what are you going to talk about?

[C]

We're going to talk about the reemergence of my eating disorder, which has been coming back very strong with like a big vengeance.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So we're talking about that. We're gonna talk about some relationship stuff. We're probably gonna talk about grief. Some un. Unhealed. I mean, not unhealed, but like, you know, the one year anniversary came and went.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And not much fanfare, I guess. That's not true. My parents threw her ashes off of a helicopter.

[A]

I heard about this.

[B]

All right, that's special.

[A]

So, yeah, I. I love this story.

[B]

Did they dump them out or just throw the whole.

[C]

Okay, so. So my mom really wanted to do this helicopter thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And my dad flew out and my mom wanted us all in the helicopter. I did not want to be in this helicopter.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

There's also a weight limit on the helicopter.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I don't want to be on a helicopter that has like a weight limit.

[B]

I don't ever want to go on a helicopter.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like pre Kobe. I was like, helicopter. I'm not. Yeah, helicopters are never.

[C]

I was like, I heard it. I heard that there was a weight limit. And of course I knew that once I brought that up to my mom, she's going to be like, well, why are you. Why are you so fat? And her ex. But maybe this is time for you to go and diet so you can honor your sister.

[B]

God.

[C]

Just background, everyone. My sister's dead, so.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, she passed a year ago. Hi, I'm Jenny Zarino.

[A]

What an intro.

[C]

So my mom. So I had. Okay, this is the thing. I stated My needs. And I didn't. People, please. And I told her right before, I said, I'm not going on the helicopter. And she was mad.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And she got over it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So the day before we get a phone call from the helicopter company that's like, do you have a water soluble bag? Because you can't just throw ashes out, right? You have to be in a bag. Well, because if you throw them out, it'll come back, right?

[A]

Yeah, you're in a helicopter.

[C]

You're in a helicopter. We just. It's all coming back in the helicopter.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So they told us to get a bag like at 7pm the night before where we're gonna get a biodegradable bag.

[A]

Yeah, Walmart doesn't do that.

[C]

Yeah. You know, like, so of course we couldn't get a bag and then they couldn't get a bag. So my mother built a machine. She basically built this 2 inch PVC pipe, duct tape to the top of that was a funnel.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And duct tape to that was the bag full of the ashes in which to make a, you know, a way for the ashes to leave.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A beer bong for basically.

[B]

I was gonna say built is generous.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that's okay.

[C]

I know she designed something pretty cool.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Thinking on your feet.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so then they did part of the ashes out of the helicopter over the ocean. And then apparently when they brought it back in, all the fucking ashes came to the helicopter.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because that's what happens. It's air. It's blowing places.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So when they came down, I hugged them and they were like, we're covered in ashes. And I was like, yeah, no, I know.

[B]

Yeah, I know, I know.

[C]

I know what's gonna happen. This is the thing they don't tell you about ashes. They get everywhere.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

I was scooping my sister up the other day. I was like, I was like, mom, I want to. Because I. I wasn't able to look at the ashes. I wasn't able to touch them. I was going to look at them for a while.

[B]

It's a weird thing.

[C]

Yeah, it's weird. It's like open a drawer and it's like, oh, there she is. Shut the drawer. So I finally was like, I want to take my part. And so my mom handed me like a spoon, just handed me a soup spoon. And I was like, fair. Take it downstairs, unwrapper. And then I'm trying to put the spoon inside and all I had was like a little weed canister. It was a mess. And so I Tried to put her in, but that wasn't working. So then I just dumped, like, took the canister and put it in. And then while I'm doing that, the air suddenly becomes dry, and I'm like.

[B]

Oh, so easily airborne.

[C]

So easily.

[B]

Such a fine powder.

[C]

Yeah. I was like, I just ate my sister. And you know what? Feel great about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

No regrets.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

We'd do it again. Five stars.

[B]

You do it again.

[C]

Yeah, I will do it again.

[B]

I will.

[C]

Not on purpose. Not on purpose. Everybody. But they. They do the art. That's a very fine powder. Yeah.

[B]

They very easily become airborne. It's disturbing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

The comic in me wants to tag that up.

[C]

Oh, tag the. Out of it, please. We're right.

[A]

In the one hour I am eating my sister, and I'm supposed to be on this diet.

[C]

My eating disorder is really out of control right now. Oh, my God. All I can eat is protein.

[A]

Oh, God.

[C]

And carbon.

[B]

And carbon.

[C]

You gotta laugh about it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

You cry later.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

So we'll talk about that in therapy.

[B]

Can I ask what kind of eating disorder you have?

[C]

Yeah, I have a binge eating disorder. It used to be binge eating in bulimia. I was bulimic from 14 till 34.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Or no, no, sorry, sorry. No. 14 to 30. And then when I was 30, I stopped and I stopped purging.

[B]

Bulimia's binge and purge.

[C]

Yes, yes. But I had been in recovery since, like, 2015 for it. 2016, I stopped purging. And then in 2020, during the pandemic, I actually went into an outpatient recovery for eating disorder.

[B]

Do you find it helpful?

[C]

I did, I did and I didn't. I think that the way that binge eating is looked at is. Is they put us with the anorexics, which is. Yeah. Which is like. Like we're given the same. Were given the same treatment as someone with anorexia. So, like, one of the things you do is you have meal time, and everyone has to have a full meal. We all eat together, and it takes a half an hour, and you can't get up from the table. Like, you have to stay there that whole half an hour. And it's mostly that because you want the anorexics to eat. Meanwhile, all the binge eaters are like, we finished our food.

[B]

Yeah. What am I supposed to do in 25 minutes?

[C]

I'm a good girl. Yeah. Then I'm like, all right, I've got 20 minutes. Just sit here.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then the other ones are just like struggling to eat. And then you go to group therapy. And once a week I would have therapy for binge eating and everything else is group therapy where it would be mostly anorexics. And there'll be a lot of people being like, if I ever got. They wouldn't say it, but in so many words, if I look like you, I'd kill myself. Wow.

[B]

Lovely.

[C]

Yeah. So it would be like a lot of that and there was a lot of like me talking about my experience with things. Like I remember one of the dinners we got into talking about camp and I was talking about how I got sent to fat camp, which like when you talk to other people with eating disorder, especially binge eating disorder, like fat camp is a huge, was like a huge problem. Like the whole concept of like fat camp and like what they did was like traumatic and pretty abusive and all this weird stuff. But I wasn't allowed to talk about it at the table because it would trigger the other girls.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[C]

In not and not like a. Sorry, what happened to you at fat camp? More like your experience being fat will bother them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh my God.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So it was like most people pleasing recovery.

[C]

Oh my God. It was.

[B]

Yeah, so.

[C]

So it partially was good. Partially it was like, I don't think very helpful.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So when going back to the fad camp stuff, is it? Yeah, the stuff that's hurtful there, is it just shame based or what? What is happening?

[C]

So at fat camp and this was like 99 I went. Or 98, I think it was 1998. Corn was in full effect.

[A]

The band or the food?

[C]

The band. Okay. We were not allowed corn in fact.

[B]

Yeah, love both.

[C]

Love both. The way it was, first of all, it was based on like a low fat diet, which we now know is like bullshit and actually harmful in a lot of ways. And we were, we worked out six hours a day.

[A]

Oh my God.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You doing two a days in fact. We're building a team.

[C]

Yeah, we were, we were, we came out of there. Navy Seals were all ripped, ripped 14 year old girls. You know, you had to get weighed in front of people. There was no like therapy part of it. It was all like, you're fat. Your parents sent you here for eight weeks to lose £30.

[A]

That's what I was wondering about the language there. Because is it, is it like a kind of like a scared straight kind of thing where they are just like mean to you kind of while you're working out or while you're weighing.

[C]

I think it was like that. It's that unintentional mean? It's the mean of our parents who grew up.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

In the 80s. You know, the mean of like your mother who like doesn't want you to get bullied so calls you, tells you you're fat every day.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

To make sure that you know you're fat so that you'll lose weight so you don't get bullied.

[A]

You better do something about this. And you're like kind of thing.

[C]

You're the, you're the bully.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You're being mean to me.

[B]

Yeah. It's like she's like pre bullying you.

[C]

Exactly. Like this is what it's going to be like on the outside.

[B]

So it's like that on the inside.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So it was just like it was. Yeah. The experience of fat camp was of its time thought to be helpful. But now we know it's like, yeah. Was not there. Was probably added to the shame and added because then also too they taught you these lifestyle skills that now I'm like, okay, these are not great skills. But then you just were like let out into the world with not addressing why the kid, why as a 12 year old you're overeating. And also to a lot of the kids there did not have weight problem. Like were not what I would call overweight. A lot of the kids there were. Had wealthy parents and they were, they were 13 year old girls who were. Whose bodies were changing.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That's what was happening. There's so many of those girls I remember were what I would just call like a. A pre pubescent girl or a girl going through puberty.

[A]

Was it predominantly women?

[C]

It was all women.

[A]

Really?

[C]

Yeah. At this one. Yeah. This was all women. Were there men there? I don't know.

[B]

Just the camp counselors.

[C]

Just. Just a creepy camp. Yeah. But it was like, it was, it was so funny to see like there were people there that just. I'm like, I don't even know why you're here. You just look like a normal person.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But one of the girls, her dad was a Hollywood producer and produced Austin Powers. I remember that.

[B]

Damn.

[C]

She was such a cunt.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh my gosh. She was such a cunt.

[B]

She still is.

[C]

100%. 100% she is.

[B]

What constitutes binge eating? I'm just trying to figure out if I have any disorder.

[C]

You probably do. Okay.

[B]

Thank you for that.

[C]

All right, well, I'll give you. I'll give you.

[B]

Judging by how you look, I'd say no.

[C]

No. You might have orthorexia.

[A]

What okay, well, that's something with your feet, I think.

[C]

Yeah, it's got orphan, it's got those orthopedics. So. Okay, so binge eating can be in a lot of ways, it's basically based off like a binge restrict. Right. So you restrict for so long, which is like, it can be restriction, can be calorie restriction. Maybe it's types of food restriction. It's just some kind of restriction that leads eventually to a binging episode to where like, for example, if I wouldn't allow myself for, you know, weeks to have carbohydrates, it would end in a 2am complete nutter bread binge. Because my roommate works at a bakery and would bring home baked goods every night. And there just is a day where you can't. You just like it switches and you can't do the restricting anymore because there's something innate in us that when you restrict your brain is like, I need to have that.

[A]

Right, Right.

[C]

So it's like, which I think is a lot of. In, in the eating disorder world, food addiction is kind of like, is it a real thing? Because if you just allow yourself to eat any food for the most part, people then just like, it's. It's not a big deal. So like after I went through recovery and I had allowed myself to eat all the foods that I want, my bingeing went down a lot because like I could have cookies in the house and I wouldn't eat all of them because I knew that it was always available to me. And I think a lot of people with binge eating grow up and like restricting in this restrictive home. Right. So I had that growing up.

[B]

Are you taking maca yet? I. I am and.

[A]

It'S pretty cool. Yeah, I'm only on day three.

[B]

Yeah. Which one are you taking? You on the black? Yeah, I do the black too. I do the black and I do the tri blend.

[A]

Oh, you do two.

[B]

I do too. Okay. Technically three, because the blend is a blend of three. Okay, well, so if you don't know about maca, it is a root native to Peru. It grows in three colors. Black, red and yellow. Or yellow or yellow. Yellow or yellow. I take the black and I take the tri blend. My girl takes the red and you take the black.

[A]

I do.

[B]

Typically, yeah. Men take the black, women take the red and then you intersperse the triple end. But it has a lot of benefits. I've been taking it daily for a little over a year. I have noticed a lot mood, skin, hair, energy. If you heard testosterone, you Know libido.

[A]

I've had a lot of improvements.

[B]

Yeah, all true. And we get. Well, I get our. I get my maca and I have been from a company called the Maca Team. They are the biggest supplier of genuine maca from Peru. The biggest supplier in America. And they are nice enough to partner with. Partner with us and give a discount code. If you want to try out maca you can go to the maca team.com secondhand therapy and you can use code bear cub for 10 off.

[A]

Oh fancy.

[B]

So yeah, if you want to try some maca, try it out dudes. Try the black ladies. Try the red or try the try but at least go to the website, read about it, see if you might want to do it. It's not pharmaceutical, it's all natural. I've been taking it for over a year. I like it. You're three days in, you're less annoying. So we did it.

[A]

We did it.

[B]

Themaka team.com secondhand therapy check it out.

[A]

Hey, if you're tired of hearing these ads, which I'm sure you are, you should head on over to Patreon. There are ad free episodes and early access to episodes. You could be hearing this a week early along with accent along with access to an entirely different podcast. Some would say a better one show.

[B]

It is fun.

[A]

It's non therapy related.

[B]

It is fun.

[A]

Super fun. Plus have you have early access to my new podcast series Happy not funny and it's ad free episodes on that as well. Also fun merch discounts. Also fun live show things where we interact with the audience.

[B]

Live streams is what he's trying to say.

[A]

We are not going on tour. Yeah, that's true. What did I say?

[B]

You said live shows.

[A]

Well, same same. You know, it's like a live show. Nope, it's like a zoom.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Anyways, you'll have access to us in a more intimate manner.

[B]

Intimate.

[A]

How about that?

[B]

Intimate. There's no end.

[A]

Yeah, like the candy. Like the candies.

[B]

Intimate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Also if you sign up, you get a little treat.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

So check out the different tiers. One of the tiers is just if you're just here for secondhand therapy, you want no ads, we'll send you a dope little sticker. And I'm going to be honest with you, a lot of time went into designing this sticker. Yeah, too much. You can argue too much dope sticker though. So if you sign up for that tier, we'll send you a sticker. The next tier, if you want the other podcast if you want the bonus stuff from secondhand therapy, all the little extras, you get the sticker, and we're going to send you a signed print designed by yours truly. That took way too much time. Still, it's way too much time. We'll sign it, we'll send it out to you, and then we have the top tier with the live streams. If you want to hang out with us a couple times a month, you get the sticker, the print, and we'll send you a T shirt that we are not selling or getting anywhere else. So check out Patreon. If you sign up, you get some treats, and it's a good way to support the podcast.

[A]

We'll see you over there.

[B]

Thanks.

[C]

That's one way that binge eating can be. It can also be that, you know, people, in order to cope emotionally, will go eat 4 or 5,000 calories in one sitting. Yeah, right. And it doesn't always have to be emotional. I think that sometimes we think that, like, oh, fat people are fat because they're sad or whatever the fuck, but, you know, it can just be. It's. It's a feeling of being out of control when you're eating.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And it can be anything Sometimes for me, binge is not 3, 000 calories. It's going off the. Whatever restriction I put myself under, which for someone might be normal. Like, it would be like going to McDonald's and having, like, half a burger and the fries and a Diet Coke. To everyone else, they're like, that's normal to me. Like, that would send me into a spiral of. Of what a horrible human being I am. So it just kind of. It just. It depends. And then, you know, orthorexia is kind of a new one that's been popping up where it is based on, like, people with very. With, like, very heavy restrictions. So, like, it kind of, I think, like, kind of in the wellness world right now, like, on one hand, you'll be like, all right, I'm gonna have oatmeal for breakfast. Sounds great. And then they're like, oatmeal's bad for you. And then you're like, okay, well, I guess I can't have oatmeal anymore. And then you're like, okay, I'll have eggs. And then you get fed along the way that somehow eggs are bad. Okay, now I got to take out, like, it's becomes this kind of fear of food. So, like, it can be veganism, but veganism to, like, an extreme. Or it's like orthorexia can be anything that's, like, to an extreme. It's like, I am going to, you know, do, like, a master cleanse. You do it once, and then you start doing it every month or whatever it is. Like, it's. It's really categorized by. It's so much in partnership with the wellness world. Like, it's wellness out of control.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Addiction to wellness.

[C]

It can be an addiction to wellness. It can be like, you know, like, some people are just like, they. They don't eat sugar, and they'll never eat sugar. They don't eat anything that has sugar in it. And it can be so much so that, like, they won't, like, if it's like, well, I'm not gonna go to a birthday party because there's a cake there that's. That's disordered eating.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Right. Or like, if you're. If your eating habits are. Are ruining your way of life, of socializing or work or anything like that, like, that's a disorder of some kind.

[B]

That makes sense.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I have an eating disorder, guys.

[C]

Oh, I love it. I love that. For you.

[A]

Thanks.

[B]

Gonna kill myself later.

[C]

Yeah. What do you have?

[B]

I think, for sure, binge eating.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Nice.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Nice.

[C]

Nice.

[B]

I did it.

[C]

You did it. Are you restricting?

[A]

I guess I. I'm curious to see if you're. If you're placing. I don't want to air your business too much. But you do keto. Yeah. And then sometimes you'll go off keto.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you'll eat whatever you want.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then go back on keto. So I don't know if that. Yeah, I mean, it's classified. But you're making those choices.

[B]

Yeah. Because I do like keto, and I do. It helps me. I'm gonna describe my eating disorder.

[C]

Let's hear it. I love it.

[B]

Keto helps me stay on a path of, like, nutrition. That works for me.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Because I can still eat things that I like.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Without having to. Like, I can cut out carbs and sugar. That's fine because I can still eat, like, a steak.

[C]

Okay, here's my question to you for that.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

If it is nutrition that is for you, feels good, then what. Why are you. Why is the binging happening?

[B]

The binging will happen typically if I take, like.

[C]

And then what's the thought process actually, as you're having a binge?

[B]

If I'm like, okay, I'm gonna have, like, a cheat from keto. I'm gonna have, like, pasta or pizza or whatever.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I Will have. If I'm gonna have a cheat day.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I will pack as much food into that day as I can handle.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I'm like, I'm gonna have a breakfast burrito. I'm gonna have pizza. I'm gonna have pasta. I'm gonna have five donuts.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And I'm gonna make myself sick on food.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That's like, weird.

[B]

I know.

[C]

That's so normal. But that's so normalized in our culture.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Which is like a cheat day. Yeah, a cheat day. But it's a day when we're gonna make ourselves feel sick because we feel like on the other days we don't.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

We're not allowed to have the. The things that we like. So on this day, we're gonna make ourselves so sick over it. But it's like there is a life where you can incorporate the foods that you do like, and you can incorporate those foods that to you are currently your cheat foods and still. And live a balanced life.

[B]

I don't believe you.

[C]

I mean, look, I'm still struggling with it too.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I think it. I think it does exist. But I think that in order to do that, you kind of also have to be okay with the fact that you might stay in the body you're in.

[B]

I was gonna say love yourself because.

[C]

I mean, I even love yourself. But just know that, like, your body might not change.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So there's this thing called intuitive eating that they teach in most eating disorder clinics. And the idea is, and I believe it is that you're. You and I are all born with an innate ability to know what our body needs. Your body, like when you're a kid, you. When you're a kid, you're eating chicken nuggets. Your body's like, I'm good with these chicken nuggets after two. Or we have kids that like, don't. Will never want to touch cheese because maybe they. They know that they have an allergy to cheese.

[B]

Yeah. There are some 41 year olds that live off chicken nuggets.

[C]

Yeah. Wild.

[A]

Yeah. It's crazy.

[B]

It is crazy.

[C]

That also might be an eating disorder. Not that everything is, but live. Live your beautiful life. Weird.

[B]

Look at you.

[C]

All three of us live a beautiful life.

[A]

Life.

[B]

Chicken nuggets and turkey sandwiches.

[A]

But imagine living that way.

[C]

It's that we. We are born with this innate ability to know what our body needs and what it doesn't. And along the way, which usually it. It usually comes in the form of. I was a. Not even a chubby Kid. I just was like, you know, I was a. I'm a. An Eastern European Jew, Italian. Like, yeah, my body's built to be bigger than a Waspy. White girl right there just is Waspy. Yeah, you Waspy pieces of double down. Dude.

[B]

Waspy is such a great blonde.

[C]

Waspy Golf. Protestant Vanderbilts. So. So I was put on a diet at six.

[B]

Oh my God.

[C]

So. And I've been dieting since, so it's like, of course I have. Have completely lost the ability to know what I want when I'm full, when I'm hungry. And all these cues that are, we naturally have, we lose them because of diet culture, which is like, you know, you're told that, like, you can eat as much as something as you want and to get as full as possible, that you're not hungry for the next. Like, it's like we do so many gymnastics and through, through intuitive eating is you give yourself permission to just eat whatever and you do go on the pendulum the other side. If you've been restricting over here, but eventually you kind of come down to normal. Right? And through that you. Then it's also too. With intuitive eating, they talk about gentle movement. What's movement that you like to do? Like, I'm not going to the gym because I need to lose £20 and whatever. I hike because I like hiking. I go on the bike because I love to bike. You know what I mean? So it's like it's healing your relationship with food, healing your relationship with movement and with body. And then at the end of once you're kind of you under, you, you have those hunger cues back, you're feeling good, then you kind of start to work on the nutrition part.

[A]

Why isn't this fat camp?

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Like, why aren't these the buildings?

[C]

Because there's no money in it. Yeah, there's no money in it.

[B]

Same reason they don't teach us how to do taxes in school.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, they want us to fail.

[C]

So, I mean, it's really funny to be talking about this because one of the mental breakdowns I have today was today. Today. Yeah, it was just like I'm descending just further into my eating disorder. And part of that is the injection stuff is so loud right now.

[B]

Ozempic and stuff.

[C]

Yeah, it's really loud. It's all over social media. Yeah, it's everyone's. It feels like everyone's taking it. It feels like. And it feels very much like this thing of the one thing you've always wanted is now here Like a miracle drug. It's a miracle. Why don't you just do it? Yeah, just do it. And if you choose not to do it, people now, before was like, we were getting this point where people were like, okay, like, fat people exist and it's okay. And now it's like, but you don't have to exist. Why are you choosing to exist? So it's been ramping up like crazy. But back to the intuitive eating part is at the end of it, then you start to think of, like, okay, like, maybe you're like, oh, you know, dairy really does with me. Then you're like, you've had all the cheese that you wanted. And now you're like, now that I'm in tune with my body, I'm like, oh, yeah, cheese makes me feel bad. Why do I eat things that make me feel bad? And then you start to work in that gentle nutrition part of it.

[B]

What if cheese makes me feel good?

[C]

Then eat cheese.

[B]

Because Joy.

[C]

But that's the thing too, is, like, food is joy. You eat because your body's like, you have to eat, so you live. Idiot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So which one do I listen to? Joy cheese or ouchie cheese?

[A]

Joy cheese in moderation. Right.

[C]

I would say, you know what if.

[B]

I wasn't talking to you, skinny.

[C]

And that's the other thing, too. He's you. I'm sure. Like, you've. You said you were big at one point.

[A]

I battle it all the time.

[C]

You battle every day.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm currently in a fight with peanut butter right now. But, yeah, I battle.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I've heard the farts.

[C]

Three people with. With weird eating problems.

[A]

Yeah. Peanut butter is doing me dirty right now. After 40 years, peanut butter's like.

[C]

Suddenly it's just like, no.

[A]

Oh, man, I can't do nuts anyways.

[C]

But that's part. Isn't that part of the gentle nutrition part?

[A]

Yes. And that's what I'm learning is. But what I've been trying to unlearn is that what I'm trying to learn is self love. And when I'm. You know. Because I was raised the opposite way, where my mother overfed me and just loved me too much and told me I was perfect.

[C]

So sorry.

[A]

While she fed me apple pie and cake and cookies and, like, all these things. And I just. I was. Then I got big.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then nobody wanted to be my friend or date or any of those things. And so I was like, well, yeah, mom likes me, but people outside the house hate me.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I had to find that balance on my own and tell my mother no and restrict myself and find that balance of what I can eat, how much I can eat, what that looks like, activity, all those things. And it's something I struggle with still. And I still hate my body. I've hated my body even when, even when I think back to. Or I'll see pictures of me back when I thought I was still heavy or big or whatever. And I'm like, I. I am so skinny there. I'm so tiny. And I hated my body and I hated myself and I still thought that I was in a bigger body and couldn't. I still had that shame that was connected to it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so, yeah, it's something that you deal with your whole fucking life and doesn't matter. For me, it hasn't mattered how in shape I've been or how not in shape I've been.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm still not happy with it.

[C]

It's, it's, it sucks. It is crazy. I have the same thing where I'll look at photos from like five years ago.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'll be like, why I hated myself so much then. Yeah, what's wrong? And it, it's so funny. Is like the best I ever felt physically and actually the time when I was. And I, I guess I don't want to say this because I want to be like this is how you lose weight. But there was a point where I was deep into doing self love exercises. I was meditating and I was really feeling connected to myself. And I did drop weight and it wasn't out of restriction, it wasn't out of like whatever. It was just that I think that there, there is something about like cortisol and like.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

This feeling of like if you hold on to like energetically how much you hate your body, like you can't. Makes it harder for it to kind of relax into where it wants to be. I think because it's always on alert of like you're gonna. And dieting is cortisol. Like dieting is stressful for your body.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I think it's also a two part thing right there where you're also releasing some of that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Some of that stress, anxiety, all this stuff you're building up and holding on to. So of course you're dropping some weight. But I imagine also what's going into it is feeling better about yourself so seeing yourself differently. And so maybe you're even looking different to yourself even though you're not really like, oh, I'm down £15. Maybe you're only down £5, but to you, you look like, oh, I'm down, you know, a bunch of weight because you're feeling better about yourself.

[C]

And it's. It's not even. I'm gonna. I'm gonna say I'm gonna disconnect the feeling good about myself to a weight real quick. Right. Cause the goal is to feel good about yourself no matter what. No matter what. Or at least have neutrality. Like, I feel like the goal is always to be like, my body is my roommate. It pays the rent. It does what it's supposed to do. I don't have to love it, but it's here. And I think that on that journey of, like, when you start to, like, feel more connected to yourself and you have more of that self love, it does just come off as, like, people think you're glowing or people think that there's something different about you because you are. You're carrying yourself differently.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Things. Energies move. Like, I believe in, like, chakra and energy. It's moving through differently. It's like, of course your face changes. Like, things will just change because you're. You're just giving off a new vibration versus the. I hate myself. I hate myself. I have to get rid of this. I have to get rid of this. And again, this is all like, I really want to, like, point out that I was sobbing today about the feeling of what a fraud I am. That I still want to be small.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, I am saying all this, and in the back of my head, I'm still like, but I need to be smaller. I need to get. If I'm not smaller, I'll never be loved. I'll never get jobs. All this. So I say that fully coming to you guys as like two people right now. The one that just cried earlier today about my weight and about my eating disorder, and the one who's like, I know the way out.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And how do I get there again?

[B]

Are you tired of staring at your phone? Are you addicted to it?

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Are you?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, yeah, like everybody else. Sure.

[B]

Okay. All right, well, I got a. Let me tell these people about my new phone.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. It's called the light phone.

[A]

Oh, I've heard about that.

[B]

The light. Yeah, you seem to use it. The light phone. Also known, some people call it a dumb phone. Anyway, it's a smartphone. It has Internet, but the Internet will only get you navigation. There is no email, there is no social media, nothing like that. It does calls, it does texts, it does navigation. It Has a calendar and a flashlight.

[A]

It's like having a BlackBerry again.

[B]

Kinda. Oh yeah, I love that. And it has a pretty cool camera too. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, it's got a dope camera on it. It's got a camera. Yeah. Anyway, they were nice enough. They sent us a little discount code if anybody wants to get on the light phone train with us. So there's a link in the episode description for the light phone. And then if you want to pre order the light phone. Three, use code. Secondhand therapy, all lowercase. Try out a light phone. It's pretty great.

[A]

Stop your doom scrolling.

[B]

Stop your doom scrolling. Be more present in life. Link down below. Promo code. Secondhand therapy, all lowercase. Check out a light phone. Join us in the present world.

[A]

Where is that? Where's that voice rooted in that? Is it society? Is it upbringing? Is it childhood?

[C]

Oh my God.

[A]

I mean, that idea of like, I need to get smaller, where is that coming from?

[C]

That is definitely parent talk. Yeah, that is. That is. It's society too. I think that society for both men and women, you know, puts an incredible strain on our bodies to look and be a certain way that is pretty much unobtainable. Like abs are obtainable if you're dehydrated. Like most people don't have abs.

[B]

Yeah, abs are impossible.

[C]

Yeah. It's all like these incredibly impossible standards for your body that they know you can't achieve. You can't live a full life and be absolutely shredded because of the work it takes. Like it's. It's this. It's the same as like you're. Again, you're missing part of your life. You're not going to your kid's birthday party because there's cake there. You're not socializing at the barbecue because you know, you're on a strict inter. It's out of your intermittent fasting window, you know. So.

[B]

Yeah. Your life is about how you look.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, 100%. And you know what? If that's what you want, I 100% support it. I support those people who want that life. Sounds lovely. So. So I think that the voice. The voice is two parts. The voices. One is definitely society and the, the things that were shown on TV and through ads and all that stuff. I mean, Oprah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Look at her. Your whole life. This poor woman has just been trying to be thin her entire fucking life.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then the other part, you know, I had parents who my mother to a few days ago told me, you know, I was saying that I Was like, I feel unattractive to my partner. And she was like, well, if you lost weight, maybe, maybe things would be better.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

To this day, when I talked to her about issues with work. Well, you're the heaviest you've ever been, Jenny. Maybe that's why you're not getting work. So I hear it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, I'm. I might on not, you know, not to demonize my mother. My father's side, you know, he's, he's been big his whole life and he's always struggled with his weight. And I go home and I have a little sister. She's seven, she's 16. And I remember them talking about intermittent fasting.

[B]

Can I say your younger sister is one of my favorite people.

[C]

Isn't she great on earth? She's so lovely.

[B]

Oh, she's the best.

[C]

She's so smart. She's a horse now.

[B]

She got a horse.

[C]

She got a horse.

[B]

So happy. She wanted one so bad.

[C]

She bought it. She found the horse, bought it herself.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Yeah. And she just is training a horse.

[A]

16.

[C]

16. Yeah.

[B]

Good for her.

[C]

Yeah. I was not doing that.

[A]

No.

[B]

So happy.

[A]

You couldn't even get a PlayStation. Buying a horse.

[C]

Bought a horse. Wow. She loves moose. Moose. Shout out to moose. Big ups. But you know, I remember being home and he was talking about intermittent fasting and he was saying that he had a friend who eats one meal a day in a four hour window. And they lost so much weight. And I'm like, yeah, they did. They're. They've cut their calories in half. Like what it. Well, maybe, maybe that's the right way to eat. Maybe we should do that. Maybe we should do that. I think we're gonna do that. And I, and I just, it's. I'm screaming.

[B]

Those are people that think like, we should eat like cavemen do.

[A]

Did.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like you hunt, you eat as much as you can and then you starve.

[C]

And they died at 35. Like Woody.

[B]

Yeah, I don't want to do that.

[C]

That's like a lot of this stuff. Some of the stuff is like when people lose weight on like a new diet, I'm just like. It's just. You just restrict your calories. Like, that's it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You have a four hour window to eat.

[A]

It always comes back as soon as you start regular eating again. It's, guess who's back, baby.

[C]

Yeah, well, I'm gonna be like this forever. Are you? Because you're miserable. Yeah. Like, like there, there was like. It was kind of like a Slim flat, slim fast, diet in the 50s. Was it this drink, and it was about, you drink two a day and then had a meal. And women were getting like 900 calories a day on this thing, which is way below. Oh, okay.

[A]

Way below.

[C]

And people are having heart attacks.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

They're going to cardiac. Like. Like anorexics go into cardiac arrest.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And this was happening to women, and it. 40 people had to die before they took it off the shelves.

[B]

Jesus Christ. Yeah.

[C]

People eat tapeworms. Do you understand how crazy?

[B]

Yeah, you got to be wild. Eat a tapeworm.

[C]

I'll eat a tapeworm.

[A]

What's up? Where do you even buy a tape? You know what I mean? You're just looking at Ralph's.

[B]

It's la. Yeah.

[C]

You go to Ralph's, just lick. Lick the ground. I don't know, find it. Lick something.

[B]

Ralph's on Sunset in la.

[C]

Rock and roll Ralph's. Yeah, that's the one you get that sick tapeworm at, dude. But yeah, it's. It's such. It's so insidious, and it's just like, you can't. You grow.

[A]

It's.

[C]

It's the soup we grow up in.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So. So it's from. It's from all sides.

[B]

So you said. You mentioned your. You talked to your partner about, like, feeling unattractive. Are you pretty open with that person about your eating disorder and how does it show up in the relationship?

[C]

Today was like a day. Day where I. I had been hiding, feeling as crazy as I had been feeling.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And it's hard because I am someone who built a brand off of, you know, fat acceptance and weight inclusivity and haze and all this stuff and be like, fat people deserve to exist. And, like. And. And I still believe it. And at the same time, I'm like, I don't know what to do, except I just want to be smaller. And I feel like a fraud. And I feel like, you know, a liar. And I. This had been something that I had been hiding and kind of having like a. I guess it would kind of be like a. Having like a. Kind of a holier than thou thing about it. Right. Like, I'm so in my recovery and enlightened and I had just been spiraling and I had to kind of have this moment with him where I was like, I'm actually not doing well, and I need you to know because I've been trying to keep it from you, but I'm not. And so that was. That happened today. And it was hard yeah. And I feel better because before that it was like, who did I have to talk to? But just my therapist.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, it's, it's hard to like to. Because right now in the, in the plus size community a lot of the influencers are going on injections and a lot of like these people who built their whole brand on being plus size and inclusive of plus size and wearing plus size clothing and a plus size flash fashion and like all this stuff are getting thousands of dollars from Ozempic.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

To now push Ozempic and a lot of us in the community are feeling super abandoned.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Because it's like, well, we bought into this and now you're suddenly you're saying it's bad. Suddenly you're saying that like this is bad for your health or like, like you want to think about your health, which is like, is always a big thing that people will say. I just want to think about, just think about your health as a fat person. It's like, but you, but none of these trolls go on to someone smoking a cigarette and tell them you're promoting smoking cigarettes.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You know, like you're, you're a bad. How dare you, like smoke cigarettes. Kids can see this. Or like whatever it is.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

They only do it to fat people.

[A]

Right.

[C]

So, so, yeah. So it's, it's, it's hard. The eating disorders in the room, as I had told them, it's, it's in the room with us and.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Was it the struggle to bring it to your partner? Was it like fear of judgment or kind of, you were saying a feel of being a. Fear of being a fraud.

[C]

Fear of being a fraud.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like I thought the reaction was going to be like, yeah, I knew you didn't believe any of this shit.

[A]

Yeah, that's hard.

[C]

And that's not what the reaction was.

[B]

Of course. Yeah.

[C]

Of course not.

[B]

Yeah. It's not going to be as bad as you think.

[C]

Yeah. The reaction is. The reaction I thought was going to be like, oh, yeah, you're full of shit. I'm leaving you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Anxious attachment style.

[B]

I knew I hated you for a reason.

[C]

So, so, yeah. So it, that wasn't what happened. It came with someone saying to me, I understand everything you're saying.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I understand it and I'm not judging you for it. So that was nice.

[B]

That's great.

[C]

Yeah. We'll see what the therapist says tomorrow.

[B]

She's like, you gotta leave him.

[A]

He's too supportive.

[C]

He's too supportive.

[B]

He's too supportive.

[C]

This Is some bullshit do.

[B]

Understanding.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, I think that, I think what she's. Her and I are going to talk about, you know, is I don't even know what we're going to talk about when it comes to this because it's very like there is an aspect of it where at some point you just are like, okay, well what do you want?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And if you're going to pursue something that's kind of harmful, how much can I say as a therapist, don't do that before you have to kind of figure out is it harmful.

[B]

What's the harmful thing you're referring to?

[C]

Just going on. So going on like another restrictive.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Thing. And one of the things that I have for me is like, I actually do have a medical condition, endometriosis. It is an inflammatory chronic disease. Causes me a lot of pain, causes me a lot of problems.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

A restrictive diet has helped a lot.

[B]

Really.

[C]

It has.

[B]

With your symptoms.

[C]

So. Yeah. So following like a pretty restrictive diet has been super helpful symptoms. How much of it is? What is what? I don't know. But that's been very difficult to like. Okay, what, where, where am I, Am I fixing my endo and like that pain or is it the eating disorder pain? You know, and they don't.

[A]

They.

[C]

It's hard to get them to work together. It's hard to. To do. In the long run, this will be better for you versus the right now. This feels good.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So. So right now I'm working with not only my therapist, but I'm also seeing a dietitian.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Who is an eating disorder specialist. And we're talking about kind of game plans and what we can do to like mitigate as much mental harm as possible. Is that the right word? Yeah. To not have this be mentally harmful but also pay attention to body stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So. So, yeah. So therapy's gonna be stupid tomorrow.

[B]

Sounds terrible.

[C]

It's gonna be really. And I have therapy and the dietitian tomorrow, so. Oh my God, I'll be weeping. It's so, it's so interesting how this stuff is like, so it's so ingrained because to feed ourselves is to nurture ourselves. And that also relates to how we were nurtured growing up. Mentally, it's like all intertwined.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

All of it.

[A]

I have a question.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You said that you recently started binge eating again.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And this is right around the same time as the one year anniversary of your sister passing. Are these things connected? Do you find yourself binging in times in your life when Things are stressful or you're grieving or you're like. Things are feeling out of control in those ways.

[C]

I think there's. I think there's some aspect of that. I think that there are a lot of things in my life right now that kind of feel a little out of control.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And it is. One of the therapists I worked with in the treatment came up with this, and it was very enlightening. It was like that time in the car that I would have with Burger King was like, my time.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It was like, just for me. I didn't have to do anything with anybody else. I'd have to think about work because it does. It shuts your brain off. You don't need to think about anything.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Too. So it's like I don't have to worry about anything. It's just me in the car, just eating some French fries.

[B]

Yes. It's something that brings you pleasure.

[C]

Yeah. It's just a joy. It's like. It's like reconnection to self, and it is unfortunate. And I think a lot of people who are addicts understand this too. There's nothing that feels better as a coping mechanism than the addiction, than whatever the. Whatever the skill is. So for me, the coping mechanism of food is there's never going to be something as good.

[A]

That's what I was kind of relating into is like, falling off the wagon. Kind of feeling of when you're stressed or grieving or whatever, you go back to these things that feel familiar or safe or connecting back to self.

[C]

Yeah. It's. It's like nothing's ever gonna. Nothing is gonna feel as grounding and as good as sitting in my car and eating. Like, it's. It feels great.

[B]

And we know that. Jesus, that's a bear. It's not.