Emotional Numbness, Triggers & Childhood Patterns | #110

Summary

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Secondhand Therapy – Episode #110

“Emotional Numbness, Triggers & Childhood Patterns”

Hosted by Louie Paoletti & Michael Malone
Release Date: December 8, 2025
Duration (content only): ~00:07:39–00:58:39

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Episode Overview

In this candid and often humorous episode, Louie Paoletti and Michael Malone unpack their recent experiences with emotional numbness, grief, and the generational patterns that shape their reactions. Through raw self-reflection and real-time conversation about recent therapy sessions and everyday triggers, they explore how childhood influences still inform their emotional landscape—as well as the messy, circuitous process of trying to heal and grow. Along the way, they challenge each other and themselves with vulnerability, poking fun at their own patterns and each other, but always returning to honest emotional truth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Returning After a Break: Emotional Fallout & Avoidance

• [07:26] The duo returns after a brief holiday break, prompted largely by the emotional heaviness of their previous episode.
• Louie shares that his Thanksgiving was spent almost entirely in bed, feeling not so much sad as numb ([08:01]), describing, “It wasn’t really like a sadness. It was more like a numbness.”
• Michael coaxed him down for a meal: “Just come eat. There’s chicken, mac and cheese—it’s all been temperature checked!” ([08:29])
• Real, simple acts of care—a meal, a donut—lifted Louie’s spirits, if gently.

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2. Grappling with Grief: “Finding a Home” for Loss

• Louie’s Therapy Takeaway: He launches into a recent therapy session on grief, describing lifelong struggles with processing emotions:

  “I was just taught to keep it moving...there’s just so much [grief] that I think I’m further along, and then something like a holiday or a celebration just beats the shit out of me.” ([10:39])

• His therapist suggests grief is “spilling over” because it isn’t organized or given a “home” in his life ([11:09]).
• Analogy: Louie compares it to hauling an overstuffed suitcase, feeling encumbered while others glide by:

  “It feels like I’m late for a trip and I have just thrown everything into a suitcase…I described it as, remember the old Monty Python Search for the Holy Grail, where the guys have luggage stacked on their backs? That’s how I feel.” ([11:49]–[13:28])

• Actionable Advice: Therapist tells Louie, “You need to spend more time with [your grief],” like looking at old photos or speaking to memories out loud ([14:32] & [15:22]).
• Louie: “I used to do that a lot, and I’ve stopped.” ([15:59])
• The Big Obstacle: Leaning in to grief often triggers intense waves of shame and a harsh inner critic (“What the fuck are you doing?”), tying the inability to sit with emotion to generational family patterns ([17:03]).

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3. Patterns of Shame, Numbness, and Emotional Regulation

• Shame and Foolishness: Louie admits, “I feel foolish. Feels—I feel dumb, dude.” ([17:37])
• He traces the inner critic’s voice (“What are you doing?”) to inherited, possibly parental, attitudes about emotional vulnerability.
• Painful Crying: When Louie allows himself to cry deeply (“physically painful...uncontrollable...heavy weeping”), he often forcefully shuts it down, feeling “embarrassment, shame, and stupidity.” ([18:05]–[19:06])
• Michael relates, but notes most embarrassment around crying only happens in front of others ([20:07]).

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4. Childhood Roots & Masculinity

• Louie: “You just don’t do that”—on generational expectations about suppressing emotion, especially as a man ([25:12]).
• It’s “me now versus 40 years of me, you know what I mean? Having that thinking…” ([25:33])
• The complexity and resistance of unlearning family, especially maternal, patterns runs throughout the episode.

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5. Emotional Triggers in Everyday Life: The Chipotle Saga

• The pair recount a minor but illustrative trigger: a frustrating Chipotle experience ([28:23]–[38:14]).
• Louie tries hard to control his anger after poor service, but confesses “so much anger” remains in his body ([29:53]).
• He and Michael debate coping strategies—pretending not to be mad vs. examining and naming the true source of anger ([31:09]–[32:33]).
• Louie: “When you start working on something, you’re just kind of pretending until it’s real. Like, I’m still mad, but I’m pretending I’m not mad until eventually…I’m really not mad.” ([31:19])
• Michael prefers examining the why behind anger, “reminding myself of the reality,” not just performing calmness ([32:28]).

Root Cause Revelation

• As Louie narrates his frustration, Michael prods about what’s actually making him mad.

  Louie: “Why am I fighting for your attention right now?” ([35:22])
  Michael: “It’s almost like your nervous system remembers having to fight for attention, and now you take that as an act of aggression.” ([40:18])

• This unlocks the realization: customer service triggers tie back to childhood experiences of seeking parental attention ([44:09]), particularly from Louie’s mother.

  Michael: “That bitch cooked your nervous system.” ([43:47])

• Louie simultaneously laughs and bristles at the accuracy, reflecting on how “cold shoulder” cues (from employees, from parents) produce outsize emotional reaction ([43:03]).

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6. Triggers, Responsibility, and the Modern World

• Michael draws on a book he’s reading about triggers:

  “What a trigger is, is you intake information, your nervous system has a reaction, and then now you believe that what you took was an act of aggression when that is not what happened.” ([47:54])

• He differentiates between being responsible for your triggers and expecting the world or others to accommodate them:

  “It’s not about tailoring the world to your triggers. It’s about managing your triggers so you can exist in the world.” ([48:41])

• This launches discussion on the difference between societal, justified triggers and those rooted in personal, often childhood, wounds.

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7. Vulnerability, Projection, and Clarifying Communication

• A meta-debate unfolds about whether caring about bad customer service to others is proof of empathy or selfishness. The two unpack the difference between micro and macro reactions—and the loaded nature of words like “selfish.”
• Michael: “You’re judgmental as shit. So you think everybody’s judging you as well, that’s what’s happening.” ([55:49])
• Louie: “How else am I supposed to receive that information besides—‘you’re selfish’?” ([53:11])
• The discussion becomes a comical but revealing navigation of how deeply held beliefs about the self influence how we hear each other (and the world), not just what’s being said.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“It wasn’t really like a sadness. It was more like a numbness.”
— Louie ([09:12])

“When your grief is not organized, it’s spilling over into other things, and then it becomes overwhelming…because it doesn’t have a home.”
— Louie, paraphrasing therapist ([11:09])

“I was just taught to keep it moving…there’s too much of it.”
— Louie ([10:39])

“You need to spend more time with [your grief].”
— Louie’s therapist ([14:32])

“I feel foolish. Feels—I feel dumb, dude.”
— Louie ([17:37])

“You just don’t do that. And so it’s a deep shame of, like, you’re crying right now.”
— Louie ([25:12])

“When you start working on something, you’re just kind of pretending until it’s real.”
— Louie ([31:19])

“Why am I fighting for your attention right now?”
— Louie ([35:22])
“It’s almost like your nervous system remembers having to fight for attention, and now you take that as an act of aggression.”
— Michael ([40:18])

“That bitch cooked your nervous system.”
— Michael ([43:47])

“It was about being treated like a good boy. And that’s—oopsie, not at Chipotle.”
— Michael ([44:28])

“Triggers are your responsibility and your problem.”
— Michael ([47:45])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [07:39] – Return from break; Louie describes Thanksgiving numbness
• [09:12] – Discussion of numbness vs. sadness; therapy session about grief
• [11:09] – “Organizing” grief and the suitcase analogy
• [14:32] – Therapist’s “bad news”: Spend more time with your grief/memories
• [17:37] – Rooting the shame of emotion in childhood family voice
• [25:12] – Generational masculinity and suppression of emotion
• [28:23–38:14] – The Chipotle frustration saga; emotional reactions to daily triggers
• [35:22–40:18] – Core realization: “Why am I fighting for your attention right now?” and nervous system responses rooted in childhood
• [44:28] – “It was about being treated like a good boy. And that’s—oopsie, not at Chipotle.”
• [47:54] – Michael on triggers and personal responsibility

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Tone & Speaker Style

• Open, self-effacing humor: Frequent joking about their own hangups (“Catatonic for the holidays—tradition around here, dog.”)
• Relatable, direct language: “Dude, that bitch cooked your nervous system.”
• Deep vulnerability, interrupted by comic relief—the hallmark of the podcast.
• Michael often challenges Louie, but usually with warmth and a therapist’s ear, if unlicensed.
• Louie is reflective and quick to turn jokes in on himself, often seeking clarification on whether the pain and patterns he recognizes are unique or universally male.

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Conclusion & Takeaways

This episode lives at the intersection of insight and insecurity, hilarity and heaviness. By dissecting their own emotional shutdowns, shame cycles, and daily frustrations, Louie and Michael model how humor and honesty can co-exist with real emotional work. Their explorations expose the deep roots of emotional numbness and triggers—often looping all the way back to childhood and parental dynamics (“Why am I fighting for your attention right now?”)—while ultimately grappling with the reality that healing isn’t linear, and never as simple as just “moving on.”

The pair provide not just laughs and lively language, but genuine strategies and new perspectives for listeners muddling through their own emotional clutter.

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Transcript

[A]

Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com Secondhand TherapyPod this episode of.

[B]

Secondhand Therapy is sponsored by BetterHelp. Yes, BetterHelp is an online resource for therapy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't know who would have guessed it. I don't know if you know about the show, but we're actually very pro therapy around here. Very pro therapy.

[A]

That is the rumor that's going around.

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It's helped me a lot.

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Tell me more.

[B]

It really has. You don't notice a change in me, Is that what you're saying?

[A]

I do.

[B]

Okay, then has it helped you?

[A]

Absolutely. I'm in Better Help right now and my therapist is awesome.

[B]

Your therapist sounds pretty great. I'm not gonna lie.

[A]

He did. I'm so happy with him. And like, whenever we have to reschedule or something changes, it's so easy. It's like literally like two, two clicks and it's done.

[B]

I have to call mine. Boo. It's terrible. But here's what I will say. I was always very much an in person therapy kind of set up for myself. Yeah, I'm on telehealth now.

[A]

Way better. Oh, yeah, dude.

[B]

Doing therapy like from your couch or like where you're in your space where you're comfortable? Dude, I'm. I'm doing way better.

[A]

That's one of the best parts of Better Help is that I get to do it from my cozy little corner chair. Yeah. Dim the lights. I light a candle. It is therapy time. Yeah.

[B]

I don't ever want to go back to a therapy office again. So that's where we're at now. Since they are a new sponsor of ours, they were nice enough to give us a little discount code for you to use. So a little treat.

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Yeah. If.

[B]

If you're hearing this, maybe you're in between insurance and you would like to start some therapy. Or maybe you've never been to therapy and you really want to try it out. Better Help's a really good start. They make it easy to find and pair up with somebody. And it's very affordable. So if you want to give it a shot, you can use the discount code they gave us. You can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy or just betterhelp.com and it'll ask you where you heard about it. Choose Secondhand Therapy. They'll give you 10% off your first month. Try it out. Start your healing journey. Change my life. To change your life.

[A]

I'm changed.

[B]

He's Changing. Changing.

[A]

Welcome back to second hand Therapy. I'm gonna remind you that we are not experts.

[B]

Nope.

[A]

We're not licensed.

[B]

We're not therapists.

[A]

We're not therapists.

[B]

We're not therapists. We're not experts. This is not a substitute for therapy. And this is not professional advice in any way.

[A]

Nailed it. I nailed it.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

See how easy that was?

We're back. We took a little. Little holiday break.

[B]

Took a week off.

[A]

We did.

[B]

Was it a holiday break or. We had a pretty emotional last episode and we were both like, hey, I don't want to go in that room again.

[A]

You know? Yeah. We're back.

[B]

We have an update. We have an app called secondhand Daily. I worked very hard on it. We were approached by a company called Studio. If you know Studio.

Just look up Studio, dude. They're really good company.

[A]

If you know Studio, then you do. If you don't, you know, if you don't, you don't.

[B]

Anyway, they approached us. They're like, hey, we see a lot of people talking about we wish Lou was our therapist. How do. Blah, blah, blah. So they approached us and we developed an app and I worked really hard on it and it's out there now. So if you want to check it out, it is studio.com secondhand therapy. You can go there, Check it out.

It's a routine builder. It's a self care routine builder. So you. If you struggle with things like that, check it out again. Studio.com secondhand therapy. If nothing else, the AI generated some images of me that are hilarious.

[A]

So they're so good, dude.

[B]

So just go to the website. You can see the pictures. If nothing else.

[A]

Oh my God. It's so stupid. It's so funny.

[B]

But it's a good app. Like I said, I worked really hard on it. So if you need help building a routine, give it a shot. If you don't, go look at the pictures.

That's it.

[A]

That's it. We also have some new merch available. We have some, some earth tone hoodies available right now that are bomb.

[B]

Okay. So we dropped the sage green, we dropped the sand, and we dropped the clay. Which one do you think has sold the most so far?

[A]

Green. Yep. Really?

[B]

I really thought it'd be the clay. Yeah.

[A]

That clays.

[B]

Yeah. People like the green.

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People like green.

[B]

Sage green. It's going.

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So you can check all that out and join us on Patreon because you're going to hear some commercials.

[B]

Yeah. Merch is available. Secondhand therapypod.com.

Patreon Another good way to support the podcast. You can get ad free episodes on the first tier. And if you sign up for the first tier, we're going to send you the greatest sticker of all time. And then we have a second tier which is ad free episodes of secondhand therapy. You. And then you get access to our non therapy podcast, the other show. If you sign up for that tier, we send you the greatest sticker of all time and assigned print. The greatest print of all time.

[A]

Some. Some people say that.

[B]

Yeah. And then there's a third tier where we send you those and a T shirt. And that third tier you get access to live streams. And our live streams are Google hangouts. So we all.

Have a little chit chat.

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We be vibing.

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Sometimes a handful of people show up, sometimes 20 people show up. We don't know who's going to be there, but we all. We be yapping.

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We be yapping. It's your chance to yap with us.

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So.

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So.

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Oh, also Patreon has a gift option. So if you don't know what you want for Christmas, but you're like, I'd love Patreon, send them a link. Somebody can gift you a Patreon thing. They can gift you.

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I did not know that.

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Yeah, they got gifts. So ask your loved ones to gift you a Patreon subscription. You can come hang out with us and all that. Good.

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Yep.

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Patreon.com secondhand therapy pod and if you.

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Want to contact us, you can do so you can send us little voice notes and text messages us. You can send us physical mail if you want. You can do all that stuff. You got a penguin the other weeks.

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Ago, the person that sent us a penguin said, you don't get anything.

Actually, no, she said, oh, for Christmas. She said she did send you something, but it got returned so she's trying to send it again. Wow. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, that sounds.

[B]

Just say thank you.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Why are you always a victim? Jesus Christ.

[A]

Like a lie.

[B]

That sounds like something that would only happen to me.

[A]

That's not what he says. I'm gonna say it sounds like a lie.

[B]

Hey, what happened to Chipotle earlier?

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I. That's for the show.

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Thanks for being here, guys. Patreon.com Secondhand therapy pod merch available Secondhand therapypod.com Thanks for being here. We appreciate you.

[A]

Goodbye.

[B]

Goodbye.

Hello, my little bear cubs.

[A]

And welcome back Secondhand Therapy.

My therapist was asking me how Thanksgiving went and.

I don't know, I listen, I didn't lie.

[B]

Good start.

[A]

I said it was. I Didn't know how to describe it.

[B]

What'd you do on Thanksgiving? I was here.

[A]

Yeah. I laid in bed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For two days.

[B]

Oh, yeah?

[A]

Yeah. I just kind of shut down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because we were talking about.

Sadness and grief and. Yeah.

[B]

You came down to eight with us.

[A]

I did. I wasn't going to.

[B]

I had to prod you pretty hard, though. You did? Yeah. You did.

[A]

I was not planning on that at all. Yeah, I was. I think I was sending you some pretty polite text messages that were like, no, thank you, and I'm okay. I'm good. Thank you so much for thinking of me. And you're like, get down here. Yeah.

[B]

I was like, okay, there's chicken. It's been temperature checked. I pinky promise it's cooked. There's Mac and cheese, and there's broccoli. Just come eat.

[A]

Just come downstairs. So I did, and it was great. Good. Appreciate that. Yeah.

[B]

Then I went back to bed almost immediately.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now we went and got a donut.

[A]

We did get a donut.

[B]

You did. Your spirit seemed lifted after some food.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a little bit better. Yeah.

I don't know, man. It. It wasn't really like.

It wasn't really like a sadness. It was more like a numbness. That's how I was describing it to my therapist, because we were talking about, like.

Well, okay, here's how I started therapy.

[B]

I have a clarifying question.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Emotional numbness or also physical numbness?

[A]

Both.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I didn't really. I don't know if it's described as numbness physically, but, like, no motivation. No.

[B]

You know, dissociated.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Catatonic for the holidays.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We love. We love a tradition.

[A]

Tradition around here, dog. Yeah.

Oh.

Yeah. I started off therapy being like, hey, let's talk about grief. And he goes, oh, okay. And I'm like, I need. I need to learn how to process it. I was never taught how to process grief, and I don't know what to do with it. There's too much of it.

[B]

You've been in therapy for, like, three years, though, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You've been doing this.

[A]

And he's like, oh, okay. And he's like, tell me more about that. So we did, which I've talked to everybody on here about that before.

And, you know, we just. I was just taught to, like, keep it moving, and.

And so I was like, yeah, there's just so much of it that when it. I. I think I'm further along, and then something like a holiday or a celebration comes along and Just beats the out of me. Like, I was talking about how numb I was and this and that. And I was like, it's just. It's just overwhelming.

And he said, well, it sounds like it's overwhelming because you haven't. You haven't organized your grief yet.

[B]

We talked about that last week. A little bit.

[A]

A little bit? Yeah. We're just like in a pile. It's just piled up. And so he was like, yeah, when. When your grief is not organized, then it's spilling over into other things, and then it becomes overwhelming, and then it becomes all these other things because it doesn't have a home. He's like, when we talk about grief, it's, you know, a lot of people talk about carrying it with them or, you know, moving through it and all these things. He's like, it's not. You need to find a home for the grief. The grief doesn't have any place to live in your life.

I was like, yeah, that makes perfect sense. It's like, it does feel that way. It feels like. It feels like I'm late for a trip and I have just thrown everything into a suitcase. And, you know, you do the thing where you sit on it and you try to zip it up and you throw it on your back and you're going to the airport and stuff spilling out and you're just shoving it back in your bag. And then people are passing you by with their little carry ons and they're just like moving through with ease. And you're like, how the are they doing that? And you're like. I described it as like, you remember the old Monty Python search for the Holy Grail.

[B]

No.

[A]

Have you ever seen that?

[B]

No, I'm young.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And also, you just described it.

[A]

We're good.

[B]

We got.

[A]

I know you hate an analogy. I know you hate.

[B]

You just gave me 60 seconds of airport analogy. Here's how I described it. Yeah, again.

[A]

Yeah, it's. I'm gonna do it anyways.

[B]

I know. Hey, I know. You can't hold that in. I know. Go ahead, Monty Python, let's hear it.

[A]

There are these. When they're on horseback, they're not really on horseback. And there are.

[B]

Good start.

[A]

Well, they're not. It's the gag. But there are guys.

That are behind them that have all of their luggage on them, and they're like these hunchback guys and they have their luggage stacked on their backs and they're kind of like trotting behind them and like, barely keeping up. And I'm like, that's how I feel. It's like one of those guys. This just has everything stacked up, and I. I can't move.

And he's like, yeah, you need to find a home for this.

[B]

So what. What would it look? So let's. Let's stick with the airport. What does the airport look like? If grief has a home.

[A]

Moving through with ease. So, like, again, like, seeing people with just, like. Just pulling their luggage along and, like, walking to their flight, just.

[B]

Yeah, so I understand that part. Where did all the. From the bag go? What is home?

[A]

It's packed nicely in their suitcase. They're taking it with them. But it's organized and. Okay. Nicely.

Fitted in their life.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

Yeah.

And so I was like, well, how do you. How do you do that? How do you. How do I organize this grief?

And he goes, well, you're not gonna like this.

[B]

Like, okay, it's gonna be hard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm kidding. That was such a dick thing to say. I'm sorry.

[A]

He said.

You need to spend more time with it.

[B]

That's a bummer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's what we call in the biz. That's bad news. Yeah, that is unfortunate.

[A]

I'm like, more time. Yeah, I feel like a lot of time.

[B]

Well, as we talked about last week, whenever it comes up. Yeah. You go running the other way.

[A]

I'd be pushing. Yeah, keep it pushing, dog.

So. So he goes, well, let's. Let's think about what happens when grief comes up for you. I said, okay. And he's like, when you do lean into it. Because I was talking about how sometimes I do lean in. He goes, what does that look like? And I said, well, I go through old photographs or, like, I watch home movies or I have a couple voicemails that I play, you know.

I was like, that's what it looks like when I'm leaning in. And then I usually. He's like, and then what happens? And I go, it becomes overwhelming, and I have to. I have to shut it down. And he's like, okay. He's like, I need you to spend more time with those activities, looking through photos, doing all that. And he goes, and also, I'm going to encourage you to start talking out loud more to these photographs or these memories or when you're in, you know, private, and you can, like, have a moment, start speaking to these people.

I was like, yeah, I used to do that a lot, and I've stopped doing it. And he's like, oh, I didn't know that. Yeah.

[B]

Do you know why?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Would you like to share?

[A]

Yeah. Comes back around to something you and I talk about, which is the next part. Sees, like, describe to me what happens when. When grief creeps up on you. Because that's. That's what I was talking about, where I was just like.

It just comes out of nowhere sometimes.

And he's like, okay, well, what happens when it. When it comes up? And I said, usually, you know, I'll start to cry, and I'll have a moment, and then I'll start to push it down because I'll have the thoughts of like, what the fuck are you doing?

What are you doing? And he goes, okay, I'm gonna stop you right there. He's like, that voice that is criticizing, that's saying, what are you doing? What's going on? He's like.

Because what.

What's the intention behind that? Like, what's the emotion? What's going on there? And I was like, oh, it's.

It's a little bit of shame, but mainly it's foolishness, stupidity.

[B]

You feel foolish?

[A]

Yeah, I feel foolish. Feels. I feel dumb, dude. And he's like, okay, why is that? And I was like, oh, it goes back to, like, there's nothing I can do about this. So what are you doing? You know? And he's like, okay, so that's the voice. That's the generational voice that's coming up.

And I'm like, yeah. And he's like.

So what happens if you.

If you do push forward after that? After. If you push through that voice? And I go, oh, it. Then it. Then it becomes, like, physically pain. Like, I'm crying so hard that it's physically painful for me. And he's like, what is that? Like? I'm like, I mean, heavy weeping, like, out of breath, like.

Uncontrollable. And he goes, what happens? You know, a few moments, you're doing this, and then do you find yourself, like, ending the cry or do you cut yourself off? And I'm like, oh, I cut myself off. Then it's really loud about, like, are you doing, dude? Like, get it together, man. Like, what. What are we doing here?

And he's like, okay. And that is. And I was like, that is embarrassment. That is shame and embarrassment and stupidity.

Which I feel like.

That is, I would imagine, similar to what you are thinking or feeling when you are trying to cry or thinking about crying or feeling emotional. Do you. Because we've talked about that vulnerability about being.

Is that similar?

[B]

Well, when I feel that I might cry now, I really lean into It.

And most of the thoughts are.

Wondering why I can't.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because I want to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm trying to put myself.

In a moment of like crying in front of somebody and what that feels like.

Yeah. Well, yes, it feels embarrassing.

But only because it's in front of somebody else.

Crying alone.

Doesn'T. Isn't. I don't. I don't recall feeling embarrassed about that. Are you taking maka yet?

[A]

I. I am and.

It'S pretty cool. Yeah, I'm only on day three.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm on.

[B]

Which one are you taking? You on the black? Yeah, I do the black too. I do the black and I do the tri blend.

[A]

Ooh, you do two.

[B]

I do two. Okay. Technically three because the blend is a blend of three. Okay, well, so if you don't know about maca, it is a root native to Peru. It grows in three colors. Black, red and yellow. Or yellow.

Or yellow. Yellow or yellow. I take the black and I take the tri blend. My girl takes the red and you take the black.

[A]

I do.

[B]

Typically, yeah, men take the black, women take the red and then you intersperse the tribal end. But it has a lot of benefits. I've been taking it daily for a little over a year. I have noticed a lot mood, skin, hair, energy.

If you've heard testosterone, you know, libido.

[A]

I've had a lot of improvements. Yeah, all true.

[B]

And we get. Well, I get our. I get my maca and I have been from a company called the maca team. They are the biggest supplier of genuine maca from Peru. The biggest supplier in America. And they are nice enough to partner with. Partner with us and give a discount code. If you want to try out maca, you can go to the macateam.com secondhand therapy and you can use code bear cub for 10 off.

[A]

Oh, fancy.

[B]

So yeah, if you want to try some maca, try it out, dudes. Try the black ladies, try the red. Or try the try, but at least go to the website, read about it, see if you might want to do it. It's not pharmaceutical. It's all natural. I've been taking it for over a year. I like it. You're three days in. You're less annoying. So we did it.

[A]

We did it.

[B]

Themaka team.com Secondhand therapy. Check it out.

[A]

Hey, if you're tired of hearing these ads, which I'm sure you are, you should head on over to Patreon. There are ad free episodes and early access to two episodes. You could be hearing this a week early along with Acc along with access to a. An entirely different podcast. Some would say a better one called the other Shit Show.

[B]

It is fun.

[A]

It's non therapy related.

[B]

It is fun.

[A]

Super fun. Plus you have early access to my new podcast series, Happy Not Funny. And it's ad free episodes on that as well. Plus fun merch discounts. Also fun live show things where we interact with the audience.

[B]

Live streams is what he's trying to say.

[A]

We are not going on tour. Yeah, that's true. What did I say?

[B]

You said live shows.

[A]

Well, same same. You know, it's like a live show. Nope, it's like a zoom.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Anyways, you'll have access to us in a more intimate manner.

[B]

Intimate.

[A]

How about that?

[B]

Intimate. There's no end.

[A]

Yeah, like the candidate, like the candy.

[B]

Intimate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Also, if you sign up, you get a little treat.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

So check out the different tiers. One of the tiers is just if you're just here for secondhand therapy, you want no ads, we'll send you a dope little sticker. And I'm gonna be honest with you, a lot of time went into designing this sticker. Yeah, too much. You can argue. Too much dope sticker, though.

So if you sign up for that tier, we'll send you a sticker. The next tier, if you want the other podcast, if you want the bonus stuff from secondhand Therapy, all the little extras, you get the sticker and we are going to send you a signed print designed by yours truly. That took.

Way too much time. Still way too much time. We'll sign it, we'll send it out to you. And then we have the top tier with the live streams. If you want to hang out with us a couple times a month, you get the sticker, the print, and we'll send you a T shirt. We are not selling or getting anywhere else. So check out Patreon. If you sign up, you get some treats and it's a good way to support the podcast.

[A]

We'll see you over there.

[B]

Thanks.

That's what I was going to say when you say feeling embarrassed. I was.

[A]

Yeah. Who?

[B]

It's just you.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah, I was. I.

You know, it's a generational thing. I was just raised. You just don't do that. And so it's a deep shame of like you're crying right now.

And it's so. It's me now versus.

40 years of me. You know what I mean? Having that thinking and whatever.

[B]

Do you always feel it? The embarrassment anytime you cry or strictly with grief?

[A]

That's A good question. I don't.

[B]

Thanks. We have an app.

[A]

I don't.

I'm trying to think. Mo. The majority of my crying is grief.

[B]

Do you think that the majority of the time you cry.

In front of me is because of grief? It doesn't seem that way from my perspective.

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It usually seems like you're frustrated with yourself.

[A]

Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know.

[B]

I would assume most recent one was we were talking about the holidays.

[A]

Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's grief. Yeah, I would assume.

[B]

But all the other times is, you know, not being proud of yourself and not supposed to be in shame. Yeah. For me, it doesn't ring as usually being grief.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In those moments, do you feel embarrassed.

Because it also doesn't seem like you cut yourself off.

[A]

No, I think it's only when I'm. I think it is grief related and I think it is.

It's more so with those heavier cries, the more uncontrollable ones, because the word there, the phrase of the day is uncontrollable. And I think that bleeds in over into the other stuff. Right. Like.

Not being proud of myself and all those things. Like, really, you can't control your emotions on top of. Really you're crying right now. Like, what's this gonna do? So I think it's a. It's a. It's a two punch there.

Yeah.

[B]

Do you find that frustration of not being able to control your emotions with other emotions?

[A]

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Today.

I know we joked about it, but today at Chipotle, like, I was really trying hard to control my emotions.

[B]

How'd it go?

[A]

I think it went okay. Not great. Not terrible. Yeah, I think it was fine.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think I was. What do you think? I mean, that's a better.

[B]

Well, I think I can only speak to how you were able to control your outward emotions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know how well you were able to control your actual emotions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But outwardly, I think you started pretty good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I think toward the end, it kind of got away from you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. But overall, I'd say improvement.

[A]

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, old me would have been cursing up a storm as soon as we got out the door.

I did say some old man when we got back to the house.

But other than that, like.

Yeah, I was really just trying to be like, this doesn't matter. It's fine. It's okay. That was. That's what's going on in my head was like trying to reconcile with like, hey, this isn't gonna happen, and that's okay.

[B]

What was going on in your body?

[A]

So much anger.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. A lot of frustration. A lot of frustration.

[B]

At yourself or at the.

[A]

At the.

[B]

At the teenagers who don't know a thing about customer service.

[A]

Yeah, at that. That part of it. Yeah. Yeah. That was the frustrating part for me.

[B]

I had a great Chipotle experience.

[A]

I know you did. I know you did.

[B]

I had a phenomenal experience.

[A]

So funny, dude.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anyways.

[B]

Yeah.

So you.

[A]

You.

[B]

Regardless of the emotion.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You do get. You do have feelings about the lack of control over your emotions.

[A]

Yeah. And I think I'm more aware of that now because as I'm working, all of that, and so I'm way more aware of it, and so it is.

I. I don't know. It's like.

I don't know how. I don't know if you feel this way or not, but when you start working on something.

Anything, you're just kind of pretending until it's real.

Like, I'm still mad, but I'm pretending I'm not mad until eventually I get to the point where I'm really not mad when something happens like that.

And so, no, that's not how I do it. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You just. What do you. Do you.

[B]

Like, if. If the roles were reversed, I would acknowledge, like, okay, I'm still mad.

I know there's nothing to be mad about, so why am I actually still mad? And then I would kind of explore that. Like, is it because I didn't get what I wanted? Is it because the customer service is bad? Is like, I felt bullied. Did I feel.

Discarded? Like, what am I actually mad about?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I kind of just remind myself every time that feeling comes up, like, there's nothing to actually be mad about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I'm never pretending I'm not mad. I'm more so just reminding myself of the reality.

[A]

See, I. For me, those are three separate things. So one is when you first start. I mean, when you very first start working on. Let's just say, anger, Right.

Step one for me is pretending, right? And just being like, okay, this is. This is fine. This is fine. This is fine. And then step two is then doing that, it's examining. Okay, why am I actually mad right now? What the Is going on here? And then step three, I feel like when you're a little bit more healed, a little bit more progress, then you can go, hey, the reality is.

They. They weren't ready, and that's okay. And my options are I can either wait A little bit longer or go get other food.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so. But I can't take that leap. When I first start working on emotions, I can't take that leap yet.

[B]

Have you tried?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then what happens when you try?

[A]

I get angry. Anger is still there.

[B]

Yeah, anger's still there too. You just remind. I remind myself that, yeah. Nothing I should be angry about.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

You think it's a light switch thing again, huh? Just flipping that switch and the anger goes away?

[A]

No, but I think there is a different process. I think there is a process to getting to be able to be like, okay, what is going on here?

[B]

You know, what was actually going on? Do you think.

[A]

They were short staffed and they didn't have enough food for the lunch rush? And I got there. It just. Wrong timing. And my options were to wait a little bit longer or to go get other food.

[B]

So what were you actually mad about?

[A]

What I was actually mad about was the way it was handled. The lack of information and customer service for.

Not just me, but anybody. Like, that's not how you. You do it. And that's the old man in me. I realized that. That I might. I grew up in a different time of customer service, and.

Customer service for me is a big frustration when I go out into the world these days. And that's my old man take. But, like, customer service is really lacking. And I get it. Nobody wants to work. I get it. Like, I didn't want. I don't want a job. Like, I get it. Nobody wants to be there. But we're here.

So.

Be nicer.

Not just today, but, like a lot of places I find where I'm just like, hey, I get it. But also.

Why am I fighting for your attention right now? You know, there it is.

[B]

Yeah, we did it.

[A]

Attention.

[B]

Yeah.

The whole thing of. I was like, okay, so what were you actually mad about? Not. Not once did you go into how you actually felt it was just customer service these days.

[A]

Yeah, I don't. And I don't. I think that's okay. I don't think attention is wrong in that part. When you go up to a cashier. Let me. Let's role play. If you go up to a cashier and they're just standing there on their phone and you're like.

Excuse me.

And you. Oh, sorry, can I get a then? And then they go, what?

Yeah, I was wondering where the, you know, blah, blah, blah, was.

Oh, man. You're gonna have to ask somebody else, man. I don't.

[B]

Has that ever happened to you?

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

Dude, no, it hasn't.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Dude, that's a movie.

[A]

That's not a movie.

[B]

Dude, if that happened to me, I would be frustrated. Okay.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm talking about.

[B]

I wouldn't still be frustrated 12 hours later.

[A]

Yeah. You'd be able to just move. Like, how long would you be that you would even linger at all?

[B]

By the time I got home, I'd be over it.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

That's crazy that you are holding on to this cashier as if they did something to you.

[A]

It's not. I don't know if it's. It's.

It's. I can't place it. It's like a disappointment. It's like.

Yeah, this is. This is reality now.

Like, that's what it is. Like, this is what we're doing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It is frustrating in that. In that way.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know, man. I'm a very emotional person.

Okay. Yeah.

What?

[B]

Nothing, man.

[A]

What? Also, I have been over the Chipotle thing we were just talking about. Because we are talking about today, what happened. Yeah. But, yeah, I haven't. I have not thought about it.

Until you. You brought it up.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So, yeah, I don't. I don't. I'm not holding on to that still. But, yeah, for a little while afterwards, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

All right.

When you worked in jobs of customer service where you. It was important you to be good at that.

[A]

Yeah, I'm a people pleaser, dude. Of course, man. I'm loading people's cars up and like that. Like, I'm going. I'm taking people's names down when we're out of stock on something and like that. Like, yeah, man.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Also, that's how you get the management position.

I'm saying your boy's a manager. Leadership qualities.

No, but, yeah. Yeah, I. I gave a. Because that's what I'm there to do. That's what you're there to do. You're hired to give a. Yeah. Are you not?

[B]

I mean, you're hard to do a job. I don't think you're hired to have an emotional response to it.

[A]

No, I think you're.

I don't know. I just came up again. This is my old man. I came up on a time where you're representing the company, and so, like, it's interesting. Yeah, you've. So.

Be nice. Be attentive.

[B]

Because if you're not, you get in trouble. From who?

[A]

The company.

[B]

Because.

[A]

Because you're not representing them in a way that is acceptable.

Yeah.

[B]

Any other relationships in your life that had that kind of.

[A]

Nope, not one.

[B]

Interesting.

Huh?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Why am I fighting for your attention right now? Quote of the day.

It'S almost like. Yeah, your nervous system remembers having to fight for attention, and now you take that as an act of aggression. All one could argue that's how it appears, right?

[A]

I mean, sure, I guess. I don't know. That doesn't make any sense to me. All I know is I'm never going back to that Chipotle again. Right, of course.

[B]

Why would you sit with it more when you could run away to another Chipotle?

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Huh?

[A]

Yeah.

Man.

[B]

What else you got going on over there?

Are you tired of staring at your phone? Are you addicted to it?

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Are you?

[A]

Yeah. Well, yeah, like everybody else. Sure.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Well, I got a new. Let me tell these people about my new phone.

[A]

Okay? Okay.

[B]

It's called the light phone.

[A]

Oh, I've heard about that.

[B]

The light. Yeah, you seem to use it. The light phone. Also known some people call it a dumb phone.

[A]

Mmm.

[B]

Anyway, it's a smartphone. It has Internet, but the Internet will only get you navigation. There is no email, there is no social media, nothing like that. It does calls, it does texts, it does navigation. It has a calendar and a flashlight.

[A]

It's like having a BlackBerry again.

[B]

Kinda.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I love that.

[B]

It has a pretty cool camera too. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, it's got a dope camera on it. It's got a camera. Yeah. Anyway.

They were nice enough. They sent us a little discount code if anybody wants to get on the light phone train with us. So there's a link in the episode description for the light phone. And then if you want to pre order the light phone three, use code. Secondhand therapy, all lowercase. Try out a light phone. It's pretty great.

[A]

Stop your doom scrolling.

[B]

Stop your doom scrolling. Be more present in life. Link down below.

Promo code. Secondhand therapy. All lowercase. Check out a light phone. Join us in the present world.

Why am I fighting for your attention right now? I was like, oh, my God, he thinks his mom works at Chipotle.

[A]

Yeah.

I don't like that.

[B]

Does it make sense?

[A]

Yeah, it makes sense. And I don't like that it makes sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why? Why does. Why is that happening? You know? Why is that happening? What?

[B]

Why is it anytime you feel that you're getting the cold shoulder, you have a visceral emotional response? Is that what you're Asking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh.

Can I. I have a statement.

[A]

Okay.

I hate it. I hate it.

[B]

Yeah. Dude, that bitch cooked your nervous system.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Do you really?

So if you can put it in. If it were a different thing. Everything's the same, but the employee keeps, like. Keeps you updated on what's going on.

[A]

Way better situation.

Is that.

[B]

Hey.

[A]

Is that that different?

[B]

I. I don't know, man. I'm not an expert. Cool, cool, cool, cool. Yeah. So, yeah, it's almost like. It's not. It wasn't about the money. It wasn't about the time. It wasn't about the food. It wasn't about how hungry you were.

It was about being treated like a good boy. And that's. Oopsie. Not a chipotle.

Why is she treating me like I'm bad boy? All I want is chicken.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is uncomfortable.

Why am I fighting for your attention right now? Oh, no.

[A]

How do you fix that?

[B]

Oh, you got to be mad at your mom.

[A]

Oh, I don't wanna. She's a saint.

[B]

I know.

[A]

She's the best.

[B]

Yep.

Man. Do you think one day you'll ever. Do. You'll ever be able to, like, say without guilt that she wasn't the best?

[A]

Even that statement makes me angry.

[B]

Doesn't. Doesn't make you angry?

[A]

Makes me. I'm fuming.

[B]

You feel angry because mama told you to be angry. My mama said you represent the company and I'm the CEO.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Mama had a hold on that reputation.

[A]

Oh, buddy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What else you got? Any other. Anything else you need? Anything else you need to crack wide open for you.

[A]

To knock out for you While we're here?

[B]

Studio.com. secondhand therapy. If you need help. Daddy made an app.

[A]

You're trash. You're trash.

[B]

What do you think about all that?

[A]

I've never made that connection, obviously. And I hope it make.

[B]

I hope I'm right.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

What if it's just some nonsense? Sorry. How does it feel? I'm just all over my own thoughts.

[A]

I don't know. It feels.

Feels right.

[B]

Yeah. It's a bummer.

[A]

Yeah. I also, I.

I need to learn more about nervous system because.

I never think about it.

It's always reacting.

And I'm never.

I don't know. I'm just never.

Diagnosing it. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Never. Like that's the problem or that's where it's coming from.

[B]

The. The book I'm listening to while I work out is currently discussing.

How to phrase it.

Triggers, essentially.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And how.

Like, kind of as a society.

It'S almost like kind of like you and I talk about where I have a very strong belief that your triggers are your responsibility and your problem.

And you sometimes go, how are you not responsible for any of this? You know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And this book is talking about.

How what a trigger is, is you intake information, your nervous system has a reaction, and then now you now believe that what you took was an act of aggression when that is not what happened.

And it's interesting how.

I mean, societally, you know, I think things coming with trigger warning makes perfect sense. But people now want to, like.

If there's a speaker going to be at a place where they are, they're like, he can't come here. No, you just don't go then.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's not about tailoring the world to your triggers. It's about managing your triggers so you can exist in the world.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. But.

I think your triggers, especially with your mother, you then believe you're receiving an act of aggression.

Because what your mom would do, give you the cold shoulder, do whatever, and that was withholding love. It was a way to punish you. And so your nervous system now reads it as somebody is punishing you again.

[A]

Yeah, it is. Yeah. It is an act of aggression for me. Or, you know, it triggers an act of aggression.

[B]

It feels like it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I'm like.

Yeah. And that goes into what we talked about before on this show, which is like.

Trying to embarrass me. You know, that's.

That's oftentimes the trigger, too. Oh, you. You think you're just gonna. With me? And that's kind of how I felt a little bit today. There's a little dash of that where.

[B]

It'S like.

The person that you probably was with you.

[A]

It wasn't. It was just disrespectful. It was like, oh, do you think you can just treat me like, cool, I'll burn this place down? You know what I mean? Like, hey, you're not going to do that to me. And that's how it feels. It's like, oh, you're not gonna. You're not gonna get away with that. And then people blow you off for, like, customer service. That's why I have a lot of problems with it, because it's like, they just blow you off or they're not interested or the whatever. And you're like, how are you treating people like this?

[B]

Is it people or is it you?

[A]

Me, in this moment? But I'm like, If you're treating me like this, you're treating a lot of people like this. And that gets my anger more r up where I'm like.

Are you. Like, how are you getting away with this? Which goes back into the. The whole. Yeah, yeah. The justice thing, you know, all that stuff. You're like, no, no, you don't get to do this. I like, well, they're doing it.

I'm. Nothing's going to happen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like, okay.

[B]

So if you have a great experience.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you overhear somebody in line having a terrible experience, that's upsetting for you.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I don't believe you.

[A]

I know you don't. Because I'm a selfish. No, this is a trigger. Why don't you believe me?

[B]

Yeah, I just don't believe that. Why? Because usually if you have a good experience, you. You feel okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You're typically. Usually I find worried about your experience.

And then it's kind of.

Out of sight, out of mind after that is my perspective.

[A]

Okay.

Do you have any examples of this?

[B]

No, I don't. I mean, yes, but I don't think it's helpful.

[A]

Okay.

Okay.

[B]

Is that upsetting? Yeah, it was aggressive, what I just did. It was an act of aggression.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

No, it wasn't.

[A]

So what is. Okay, but. And this is where we. This is where we get in the weeds. Right. Because what is the intention behind that?

[B]

Sharing my opinion. Because we're on a podcast talking about. And I think you might have asked.

[A]

Me as well, and your opinion of.

[B]

Me is what My opinion of you in.

[A]

In that moment, like, what are you trying to share there?

[B]

That I don't believe that if you have a flawless experience at a restaurant and while you're eating, you hear somebody else being treated rudely, that you would have a reaction to it.

[A]

And why. And why do you believe that?

[B]

From my experiences with you.

[A]

Which then lead you to believe.

[B]

Hey, man.

Why is this important?

[A]

Because here. How else am I supposed to receive this information besides this. This is what I'm taking away from this information. Mm. Is that you are selfish.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And you don't care about others. Okay. And that's what I'm trying to get to, is just, if you're not saying that, then what are you saying? And that's what I'm saying of, like, this is where we get in the weeds about, like, hey, this triggers you or this or whatever. And like, okay, well, how else am I supposed to receive that information if that's not what you're saying? And I'm asking you, what are you saying? And you're saying it's not helpful. It's not. This, then that reinforces the idea that that is actually what you're saying. So how else am I supposed to receive that information just at face value.

[B]

Of like, sure, hey, that would be ideal how?

[A]

If I were to say the same thing about you, you would just take it as like, okay, yeah.

[B]

If you said, hey, if you overhear bad customer service, I don't think it rocks your nervous system. I'll go, he thinks I'm a selfish piece of. I'd be like, oh, yeah, you're probably right.

[A]

That's not what you said.

[B]

I said, I don't think you would have an emotional reaction. I think that's what I said.

[A]

You said a reaction at all.

[B]

Yeah, I don't think you would. I don't think you would.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What do you want from me? That.

[A]

I do believe that that's different than saying an emotional reaction or a. Or your nervous system being rocked or whatever. I would agree with those statements.

[B]

Hey, I don't think you would have a reaction.

Okay.

Wow. You must be a real piece of.

Dude.

[A]

And that's what I'm. And that's what I'm trying to ask for, like, clarification.

[B]

It's not deeper. I don't think you would have a reaction.

[A]

How is that not deeper?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

If I were to say, hey, let.

[B]

Me ask you this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you felt that some way about somebody else, if you said, hey, if you overheard basket. Bad customer service, I don't think you'd have a reaction. Do you then think, wow, they're a real selfish piece of.

[A]

No. And that's.

[B]

So why would I. Why do you get that? Freedom to have the thought. Stop there. But when I say it, that has to be. So what are you trying to say? What do you. Why. Why is it different?

[A]

I think I missed this question. Sorry. What was the. I'm so sorry. What was the. I think I misunderstood the very first part of that. Did you ask.

[B]

So if you were to say to somebody else.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

If you heard bad customer service, I don't think you would have a reaction. Do you then think of that person that they're a selfish piece of.

[A]

Yeah, that's saying that they don't care about others. That's what I'm saying in that statement is. And that's. Yeah.

[B]

Then you want to know what's happening.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

You're judgmental as shit. So you think everybody's judging you as well, that's what's happening.

[A]

Here's what's happening. I wouldn't say that. Cool.

I wouldn't say that.

[B]

Would you still think it?

What if you're on a therapy podcast where the point is that you challenge each other and talk about it?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Then would you say it tight.

Christ.

[A]

I just find it hard to believe that you wouldn't have reactions sometimes to some of the stuff that you. I might say to me. I might. Yeah.

[B]

And if I do, that's my problem, bruh.

And guess what? If I hear bad customer service, a lot of time, I'll be like, that guy's a dick and I'm gonna keep eating, dude.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It is what it is, bro. I'm not here to save the world.

[A]

Yeah. I also agree with that statement. Yes.

[B]

I also might have no reaction at all.

[A]

What I thought you were asking was the bigger. Was the bigger issue of, like, do I care if others are mistreated? Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's what I thought you were saying. And so that's what I was like. Yeah, I would give a. About that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I was going macro, you were going micro, and that's what it was.

[B]

You're such a good person.

[A]

That's not what I want.

[B]

I would like to make a statement.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

You, Michael Douglas Malone, are a saint. You know, a flawless human.

[A]

You don't believe any of this.

[B]

And a good person. It doesn't matter what I believe. It only matters what you hear.

[A]

That's not true. Weird.

[B]

You don't ask me what I meant by any of that. Just sat there smiling, didn't you?

[A]

Yeah, because I know it's.

Whatever.

[B]

Dude.

That is so wild. That was such, like. I don't think if you heard bad customer service, you'd have a reaction.

What are you saying?

What?

[A]

I went macro. I thought you were saying, like. Yeah, it was a miscommunication.

[B]

It.

Okay.

[A]

That's why I wanted clarification.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And we know that.

Jesus, that's a bear. It's not.