Porn Addiction & Monastic Wisdom with Jeremy Lipkowitz | #108

Summary

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Secondhand Therapy | Episode #108

Porn Addiction & Monastic Wisdom with Jeremy Lipkowitz
Date: November 17, 2025
Host: PonyBear Studios
Co-hosts: Joe & Travis
Guest: Jeremy Lipkowitz

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Episode Overview

This episode of Secondhand Therapy dives into the complex topics of porn addiction, self-mastery, and personal transformation through the lens of Buddhist philosophy. Joe and Travis welcome guest Jeremy Lipkowitz—a meditation teacher, former monk, and porn addiction coach. Together, they unpack Jeremy’s personal journey from addiction to healing, explore the neuroscience behind compulsive pornography use, scrutinize cultural attitudes, and pull practical wisdom from his monastic experience. The conversation is open, unfiltered, and sprinkled with the hosts’ trademark humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jeremy’s Journey into Buddhism and Monastic Life

• Origin Story: Jeremy describes realizing the destructive effects of his porn addiction during college, which triggered an existential crisis prompting his search for meaning.
  • "I had this existential crisis moment of awakening where I realized that I was never going to be happy if I kept living the way I was living." — Jeremy (08:37)
• Discovering Buddhism: He found anchor in meditation and Buddhist philosophy, particularly appreciating its empirical approach linking neuroscience and Eastern wisdom.
• Monastic Experience: Jeremy became a monk during an intensive 30-day silent retreat in Myanmar; previously, he’d done around 15 ten-day silent retreats.
  • "I realized, oh, Buddhism isn't just some kind of religion about spirituality and woo woo stuff. It was a very grounded approach to understanding your mind and cultivating the things that would lead to happiness and well being." — Jeremy (08:37)
• Monastic Life Details (11:55–14:00):
  • Routine includes alms rounds, chores, group meals, and intensive meditation.
  • The first silent retreat was extremely challenging due to withdrawal from distractions; repeated practice made the process easier.

2. The Science & Psychology of Addiction (18:00–22:51)

• Porn Addiction Mechanisms: Jeremy explains how compulsive porn use hardwires neural pathways around novelty and dissatisfaction.
  • "Every time you see a new scene or a new girl or new video, you get a little dopamine hit and you get addicted to that novelty... my whole life was a state of suffering because I was always looking at what I didn’t have and what I wanted." — Jeremy (20:15)
• Negative Impacts: Changes in intimacy, self-worth, relationships, and happiness stemmed from addiction patterns.
• Long-Term Consequences: Many negative effects are subtle and manifest over years, not instantly like with substances. (30:01)

3. Cultural Normalization & Unrealistic Expectations (32:22–36:25)

• Normalization: Both hosts recall growing up in environments where porn was omnipresent and never questioned.
  • "It was so common. All of my friends were watching porn. Everybody, you know, it's... sex is everywhere." — Travis (29:14)
• Media Distortion: Unrealistic body standards and behaviors modeled in pornography impact perception, expectations, and real-life relationships.
  • "In zero porn scenes ever will you ever see a girl turn down sex and that request be kind of accepted... this is totally warping what young men think of as healthy intimacy." — Jeremy (33:26)
• Emerging Trends: Rising rates of erectile dysfunction and loss of interest in genuine connection among youth—linked to porn use.

4. Defining & Diagnosing Porn Addiction (36:35–39:13)

• No Fixed Number: Addiction is less about frequency, more about impact—"any behavior you do repeatedly despite negative consequences."
  • "If you keep doing something but it's causing harm in your life and you keep doing it anyway, you could classify it as an addiction." — Jeremy (36:35)

5. Can Porn Use Ever Be “Healthy”? (39:13–41:56)

• Jeremy’s View: For almost all men, there’s little-to-no upside; harms outweigh any short-term pleasure. Possibly slightly different for women due to differences in arousal patterns.
  • "For 99% of guys, they don’t have a healthy relationship with [porn]. Even if they think they do." — Jeremy (39:13)

6. Gender Differences in Addiction (41:56–44:53)

• Men vs. Women: Men are more visually stimulated; women tend toward story and character (e.g., erotic literature).
• Rising Female Addiction: More prevalent than before, but mechanisms and effects often differ.

7. Practical Recovery: What Works? (44:53–49:25)

• Top Advice: Get connected to community, therapy, or accountability groups. Isolation and shame maintain the addictive cycle.
  • "Get connected to a community, a brotherhood, a men's group, a therapist, a coach... it helps you let go of the shame around this addiction." — Jeremy (44:53)
• Shame as a Trap: Isolation fuels addiction—open sharing and connection are essential for recovery.
• Sobriety vs. Recovery: Sobriety is abstaining; recovery is resolving roots of addiction (e.g., trauma, emotional avoidance).
  • "Sobriety is not the same as recovery. Sobriety is just let me use some willpower... Recovery is saying, let me untangle the knots of my soul and my mind that made me want to escape and run away." — Jeremy (48:00)

8. Is Happiness Achievable? (57:37–61:52)

• Buddhist Perspective: True happiness is not ecstatic highs, but contentment and equanimity; defined as inner fulfillment, gratitude, and peace.
  • "When you have a moment of real gratitude, of, whoa, I'm alive... that is happiness." — Jeremy (57:55)
• Roots of Suffering: Buddhism pinpoints greed, aversion, and delusion as core obstacles.
  • "The roots of suffering are greed, hatred (aversion), and delusion." — Jeremy (59:46)

9. Memorable Metaphors

• Realm of the Hungry Ghosts: Jeremy likens addiction to Buddhist imagery—insatiable craving never brings satisfaction, always needing “more.”
  • "Huge, massive stomachs, massive bellies, and they have tiny pinhole mouths... they can never eat enough to satisfy their hunger ... That's what addiction is like." — Jeremy (53:20)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On First Silent Retreat:

  • "It's the most challenging thing that I had ever done. And probably to this day still, because we're so used to distraction... you’re just really with yourself and your thoughts and your experience." — Jeremy (14:31)

• On Breaking Porn Addiction:

  • "I could tell you just briefly about it. It was this moment of walking down the street... I saw these two college girls walking in front of me. And I could not stop staring at their butts ... In that moment, I realized that ... this feeling of lust is a state of suffering." — Jeremy (19:00)

• On Culture and Fantasy:

  • "Sex is not like it is on screen. It's awkward a lot of times and it's human." — Travis (31:05)
  • "We're making it seem like a lack of consent is what women want." — Jeremy (33:26)

• On the Path to Recovery:

  • "What shame does is it makes you want to isolate and hide away." — Jeremy (45:00)
  • "Addiction... it's the same at the root for all of these things... Recovery is not just sobriety." — Jeremy (48:00)

• Happiness, Contentment, and Buddhism:

  • "The happiness that Buddhism is talking about and promising is more of the inner peace, the inner fulfillment, that deep sense of contentment... Any moment of gratitude is a moment of happiness." — Jeremy (57:55)

• On the “Realm of the Hungry Ghosts”:

  • "That's what addiction is like... It's just wandering around thinking, I need something hotter. I need something better. I need more followers, more money, a bigger watch..." — Jeremy (53:20)

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Important Timestamps

• Jeremy’s Addiction & Buddhist Path: 08:31–11:55
• Monastic Life and Silent Retreats: 11:55–16:23
• Science of Addiction / Novelty: 18:01–22:51
• Impact on Relationships / Unrealistic Expectations: 29:14–34:49
• Defining Porn Addiction: 36:35–39:13
• Healthy Relationship with Porn?: 39:13–41:56
• Gender Differences: 41:56–44:53
• Jeremy’s #1 Recovery Advice: 44:53–46:55
• Sobriety vs. Recovery: 48:00–49:25
• Happiness & Buddhist Wisdom: 57:31–61:52

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Tone & Style Notes

The episode combines honest vulnerability, humor, and practical wisdom. Joe and Travis keep things loose and accessible, occasionally riffing on personal stories, but never shying away from direct questions about shame, masculinity, and what it really takes to heal from compulsive behaviors.

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This summary captures the heart of episode #108—a frank, insightful, and funny conversation that fuses evidence-based psychology, Buddhist philosophy, and real-life stories on the struggle and hope of overcoming porn addiction.

Transcript

[Travis]

Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod hello, my little bear cubs.

[Joe]

We have a new sponsor. And that new sponsor is BetterHelp. Yes, BetterHelp is an online resource for therapy.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Joe]

And I don't know who would have guessed it, I don't know if you know about the show, but we're actually very pro therapy around here. Very pro therapy.

[Travis]

That is the rumor that's going around.

[Joe]

It's helped me a lot.

[Travis]

Tell me more.

[Joe]

It really has. You don't notice a change in me, Is that what you're saying?

[Travis]

I do.

[Joe]

Okay then. Has it helped you?

[Travis]

Absolutely. I'm in Better help right now. And my therapist is awesome.

[Joe]

Your therapist sounds pretty great. I'm not going to lie.

[Travis]

He did. I'm so happy with him. And like whenever we have to reschedule or something changes, it's so easy. It's like literally like two clicks and it's done.

[Joe]

I have to call mine.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Boo.

[Joe]

It's terrible. But here's what I will say. I was always very much an in person therapy kind of set up for myself. Yeah, I'm on telehealth now.

[Travis]

Way better. Oh, yeah, dude.

[Joe]

Doing therapy like from your couch or like where you're in your space where you're comfortable? Dude, I'm. I'm doing way better.

[Travis]

That's one of the best parts of Better Help is that I get to do it for from my cozy little corner chair.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Dim the lights. I light a candle. It is therapy time.

[Joe]

Yeah. I don't ever want to go back to a therapy office again. So that's where we're at now. Since they are a new sponsor of ours, they were nice enough to give us a little discount code for you to use. So a little treat.

[Travis]

Yeah. If.

[Joe]

If you're hearing this, maybe you're in between insurance and you would like to start some therapy. Or maybe you've never been to therapy and you really want to try it out. Better helps a really good start. They make it easy to find and pair up with somebody and it's very affordable. So if you want to give it a shot, you can use the discount code they gave us. You can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy or just betterhelp.com and it'll ask you where you heard about it. Choose Secondhand Therapy. They'll give you 10% off your first month. Try it out. Start your healing journey. Change my life. To change your life.

[Travis]

I'm Changed.

[Joe]

He's changing. Changing.

[Travis]

I'm working on it. Can you give me a minute? Welcome back to secondhand therapy.

[Joe]

What if it's their first time? Idiot. Then what? What if it's their first time, you idiot.

[Travis]

Welcome.

[Joe]

Yep.

[Travis]

You fucking idiots.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

No.

[Travis]

Welcome to secondhand therapy.

[Joe]

Hey, we want to remind you, welcome and welcome back. Right.

[Travis]

I hate.

[Joe]

I hated that I included all the pronouns with that one. Welcome and welcome back. All, he, she, and they. You're all welcome here.

[Travis]

Welcome to secondhand therapy.

[Joe]

Welcome back. Wait. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll let you do it.

[Travis]

We have a guest also.

[Joe]

Hey, hold on. This is why I can't let you do it.

[Travis]

I'm doing it. We're not a therapist. We're not licensed professionals. This is not a substitute for actual advice or therapy.

[Joe]

Could not in any way. How many fumbles did on one run. Flawless qb, Handed you the ball. So if the quarterback. If you're the running back, the quarterback handed you the ball. You. Your pants, dropped the ball, slipped in the. Tried to fall on the ball, couldn't pick up the ball, died.

[Travis]

That was a flawless victory.

[Joe]

We're not therapists. We're not experts. This is not a substitute for therapy. And this is not professional advice in any way.

[Travis]

Is exactly what I said.

[Joe]

We have a guest.

[Travis]

We have a guest.

[Joe]

He's got a. He's got poopy butt. He's got to clean up from the fumble. Poopy butt. Tell me poopy butt's not funny at any age. Trash.

[Travis]

Petty.

[Joe]

Tell me poopy butt isn't funny at any age. It's pretty funny.

[Travis]

Thank you. I know.

[Joe]

We have a guest. We're going to be talking about.

[Travis]

Guest.

[Joe]

We're going to be talking about. Porna Por. Pornography.

[Travis]

Porn pornography material.

[Joe]

We have Jeremy Lipkowitz joining us remotely from a very, very far away place on a different continent. He used to be a monk. He also used to be addicted to porn. Not at the same time. And he's now neither of those. So we got an interesting combo coming.

[Travis]

I got some questions for you. Yeah, Yeah. I can't wait.

[Joe]

Yeah, I've looked at some of his stuff. Very interesting. So should be good.

[Travis]

Yeah, and I've looked at some porn. Very interesting.

[Joe]

So now when he says some, he means all of it.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

I've seen it all.

[Travis]

Hey, you know what?

[Joe]

I've seen all of it.

[Travis]

I finished the Internet earlier today.

[Joe]

He did.

[Travis]

Finished it.

[Joe]

What's in the act? What's in the Z file? He could tell you went through the queues. In an afternoon. What else? Hey, go to Patreon, idiots.

[Travis]

Be nice to them.

[Joe]

What if you call what a idiots, right?

[Travis]

It's their first time here.

[Joe]

Well, they're dumb for not being here sooner. Well, you got a point and I stand by that.

[Travis]

Go to Patreon, you idiots. I don't like that.

[Joe]

Hey, you're gonna hear some ads. And if you don't want to hear the ads, there's only one thing you can do about it. There's two. One involves wrapping your lips around.

[Travis]

No, no.

[Joe]

A weapon. No, I'm not going to say what kind of weapon. No, I'm not going to say what kind of weapon.

[Travis]

Two.

[Joe]

Two, you can go to Patreon. Oh. Two, you can go to patreon. Patreon.com secondhand therapy podcast. We got stuff going on.

[Travis]

We got a bunch of merch.

[Joe]

We got stuff.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe]

If you sign up, we got different tiers. We got giveaways, stickers, sticker sign, print, T shirts, all kind of stuff. Go check us out patreon.com secondhand therapy pod.

[Travis]

And you can contact us. You can tell us how much you don't. Don't like one of us and how.

[Joe]

Harsh they are, but only if you don't like one of us. Make sure it's me because one of. One of us can take it and one of us can't.

[Travis]

One of us will wrap their lips around.

[Joe]

No. A weapon.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

A weapon.

[Joe]

And by weapon, he means his father's penis.

[Travis]

Haven't seen him in a dog's age. You like that, huh?

[Joe]

A dog callback for you. It's from the show. It's on Patreon.

[Travis]

Oh, buddy. Only on Patreon.

[Joe]

Merch Available secondhand therapy pod dot com. And do we have some news?

[Travis]

Oh, we do.

[Joe]

Emotional sport hoodies.

[Travis]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe]

A bunch of new colors. Yeah, same quality. They finally, finally released some new colors. So we got. I mean, our earth tone game is.

[Travis]

Oh, buddy, that sandstone.

[Joe]

Is it the chain? I think it's just saying. The sand, the clay. The sage, dude, the sage.

[Travis]

We got all the pottery colors.

[Joe]

Yeah. Tie dye hoodies. Mood cruise. We got a bunch of cool stuff. Vasectomy farm stuff is still out. Portion of that goes to women's reproductive resources. Secondhand therapypod.com. good way to support the show.

[Travis]

And you can contact us. Don't. You can send us physical mail. You can actually. You can send us digital stuff like text messages or voice memos or pictures.

[Joe]

Of your cows and donkeys.

[Travis]

We talk about it on the show.

[Joe]

Yeah, that's true. All the contact info is in the episode description below. Or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify, it is on your screen. That's it dude.

[Travis]

That's it man.

[Joe]

Subscribe Follow the show Share it Like it Leave a comment you can comment on Spotify. Whatever dude. Thanks for being here. We appreciate you. We're going to talk about Parna.

[Travis]

Love you. Bye.

[Joe]

Parnagraphy. Hello my little bear cubs.

[Travis]

And welcome back secondhand therapy.

[Joe]

And we know that I'm dying to hear about the your experience in Buddhism.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Yeah, I want to know everything.

[Joe]

How'd you get into it? How'd you get out of it? What was it like? What'd you learn? Everything.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Yeah, how I got into it was through just my own experience of addiction. You know, kind of realizing I was addicted to porn. This was towards the end of college. I had this existential crisis moment of awakening where I realized that I was never going to be happy if I kept living the way I was living. And so that sent me down a rabbit hole of looking into first things like positive psychology. So I started looking into some of the science of happiness and well being. And that got me into this book on meditation and Buddhist philosophy. And it was a really cool book because it actually kind of blended modern science and neuroplasticity and neuroscience with Eastern wisdom. And so it finally bridged the gap for me where I realized, oh, Buddhism isn't just some kind of religion about spirituality and kind of woo woo stuff. It was a very grounded approach to understanding your mind and cultivating the things that would lead to happiness and well being. So that book changed my life and sent me down a decades long rabbit hole of getting interested in in Buddhism. And I could tell you kind of where it sent me from there. You know, I went, went to India, started doing meditation retreats, ended up ordaining as a monk for a short time. But I have, yeah, a long journey and a big love for.

[Travis]

Are you still involved?

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

I'm still a, I would say, you know, a practitioner of Buddhist meditation and I would consider myself a Buddhist. But what's interesting is for me Buddhism is more of a philosophy, it's not a religion because there is no deity in Buddhism. There's no kind of dogmatic belief system about where we were created from. It's really, you know, the Buddha was just a guy like you and me who understood his mind and understood how to train his mind to let go of suffering and to cultivate inner peace and happiness. So for me, Buddhism is more of a philosophy of life and how to live a good life. So I consider myself a Buddhist and am involved in that way. And I still go on retreats very often, but I'm not a monk anymore. And that's a big misconception a lot of people have. When I tell them that I was a monk, they're like, oh, so you're still a monk?

[Travis]

I didn't know, I didn't know a monk could retire. I didn't know that was a thing. I thought I was like a marine, like once a monk, always a monk.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

So it's quite interesting, particularly in certain kinds of Buddhism, like in Southeast Asia, in Thailand and Myanmar, it's called Theravada Buddhism. And in these cultures it's actually almost seen as like a rite of passage for a young man to go ordain for a while, not to be a monk for the rest of his life, but to ordain for a month or a couple months is seen as kind of a rite of passage. And so it's, it's just called disrobing. So you become a monk and then after a month or a couple months you can disrobe. So you, you know, get your possessions back and give up the ropes. So it's seen more as like an experience and a way to live in a very simple way for a while, but you don't have to do it for the rest of your life.

[Joe]

So while you're robed, what does the day to day look like?

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Yeah, so while I was ordained as a monkey, it happened to be while I was on a very intensive long term retreat. So I went to do a kind of a silent retreat. So I do silent retreats quite often, which are typically, you know, 10 days where you go and you're not, you're not talking, you're not reading or writing or journaling, you don't have any of your electronics, you give up your phone, you know, you're not checking your News. And it's 10 days of just practicing meditation and so that, you know, sometimes it's called the Vipassana retreat. There's other kind of ways to do it, but that's something that I would do very regularly, maybe once a year. And I decided to sign up for a 30 day retreat, like a month long retreat. And it was at a Buddhist monastery in Myanmar. And at this monastery you had the opportunity to ordain for that time if you wished. So my, while I was a monk, I was doing this very intensive retreat practice. So it wasn't necessarily the same as what the daily life of just a typical monk on any random day would be. You know, typical monks, they do a lot, a lot of chores. You know, they go on alms rounds. So they wake up quite early in the morning and then alms rounds, they're walking around the village, around their monastery, you know, getting food offerings in their begging bowl, bring it back to the monastery, and then the whole monastery kind of eats together and then there's, you know, a lot of meditation and then sweeping the temple and cleaning and sewing their robes. It's a very simple life. But while I was on retreat and while I was ordained as a monk, it was just intensive meditation practice.

[Travis]

So what is that? I mean, it has to be shocking to go from this kind of like American culture into monk life. What were like some of the, the first days like there were you a little going a little stir crazy?

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Well, you know, so when I went and did that month long retreat and ordained as a monk, I had already done maybe 15, 10 day silent retreats in the past. So I, I already knew what it was like to go through that culture shock of going from the busyness of modern life into a silent retreat. So by the time I was ordained as a monk and doing that practice was old news to me, I knew exactly what to expect.

[Travis]

Yeah, I mean like the first time.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

The first time I did a silent retreat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The first time was wild. I mean, it's the most challenging thing that I had ever done. And probably to this day still, because we're so used to distraction. We're so used to checking email and looking at our phone and talking to people and just all the busyness of modern life. And my first one was even before we had social media and phones. I think Facebook was out. But you know, this was before it was hyper connected. But even still, it's just so wild to not have anything to distract you from yourself. You know, to not talk to people, to not read or write. You know, you're not even journaling. You don't bring a journal to kind of write out your thoughts. You're just really with yourself and your thoughts and your experience. And so it's incredibly wild. But it's so rewarding to be able to learn how to work skillfully with your thoughts and emotions and feelings. You know, it's like a boot camp for self mastery and training the mind. So it's wild. And then also the reverse is wild, you know, on the last day when you go back into modern life. You know, they always say like Be careful going into a grocery store. You walk down the cereal aisle and you've got thousands of choices of cereal and you're like, oh man, this is so crazy. So going back into quote unquote, normal life is also a trip. Or at least it was a trip the first couple times I did it. Now I can kind of go in and out of retreat and the transition is much easier for me. You know, I kind of know how to go in and drop into that stillness. And then I also know how to come out and not just be totally overwhelmed by it.

[Joe]

Do you run retreats?

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

I used to, yeah. Yeah. So for a long time, you know, now what I mostly do is coaching men around porn addiction. But before that, you know, I was teaching meditation for, for about 10 years and moved to Thailand and started running some of these retreats. Because one of the things I realized is there are a lot of people like me out there who want some of this kind of eastern wisdom, but they don't want the religion behind it and they don't want it in a super spiritual woo woo kind of fluffy, you know, open up your chakras and get aligned with the universe. They don't want that either. And my approach is, you know, my background is in the sciences. I was a geneticist, you know, so I kind of approached this from a very rational, secular, logical perspective. And there weren't necessarily a lot of retreats, silent retreats out there that were offering that perspective. So I started running retreats in Thailand. But then in 2018, I really found my, my purpose and my passion in coaching around porn addiction specifically because that was, it was just coming full circle. That was my gateway into meditation. That's what got me into Buddhism, was my own porn addiction. So now I spend my time doing that.

[Joe]

Yeah. So I was actually going to circle back. So that's perfect. You said it happened toward the end of college. Have you just, did you just have a level of self awareness to know that you had a problem or how did you figure out that you were addicted to porn?

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Yeah, you know, I've always been a kind of more self aware, I don't want to say self aware person. That sounds very pretentious. I've always been a more observant type person, kind of more thoughtful, a little bit introvert, you know, pay attention. My background really being in the sciences, I like to, to study and analyze things. And so I did have a level of self awareness to see what was going on quite early. And I'm very thankful that I, I caught it as early as I did because a lot of people don't catch it until they're 30, 40, 50, 60 years old and realize that they've been kind of destroying their brains for that long. I started watching porn when I was very young. I mean, I started getting into looking at the Victoria's Secret catalog, you know, when I was 7, 8 years old. And it just escalated once we got Internet, you know. So I'd been watching porn since I was very young. And then it was in college. I had a few different experiences that just really shined a light on the fact that, well, this is impacting my relationships, my intimacy, my sense of self worth, all these ways that it was actually impacting my life and my ability to be happy. So then I had that kind of existential crisis of realizing, whoa, I gotta make a change, or else I could tell you just briefly about it. It was this moment of walking down the street because there was one moment that really opened up my eyes. I was around 23, maybe I'd finished undergrad. I was sticking around at my university doing research in a laboratory. And I remember walking down the street. This was Davis, California. Blue skies, sunny. My life was amazing. I had a lot of friends. I was captain of the Brazilian jiu jitsu sports club. My life was really good. And I was walking down the street and I saw these two, you know, college girls walking in front of me. And I could not stop staring at their butts. You know, just like, being consumed with this feeling of lust. And I gotta stare. I gotta look in there, brother.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Have that. Yeah, it's. You know, the mind is just totally. You're enslaved by that feeling of lust. And in that moment, I realized that. I realized a bunch of things. One is, this feeling of lust is. Is miserable. Like, this feeling of lust is a state of suffering. When I'm looking at something I don't have and something I want, but I don't have it. That is what suffering is. And I realized almost all of my life, despite all the amazing things I had in my life, most of my life was a state of suffering because I was always looking at what I didn't have and what I wanted rather than what I did have, rather than being grateful and content. And I mean, contentment was like. There was no contentment. Even though I was a stellar student, you know, finished at the top of my class and everything, always getting A pluses and everything, and lots of friends, I was never content. I was discontent and dissatisfied. And I realized that porn was. Was Doing that to me, every time I logged onto porn, I was hardwiring these neural pathways of dissatisfaction, of wanting something new. Because that's what porn does. It gets you addicted to novelty. It's like, oh, I want a new video, I want a new face, I want a new scene. And every time you see a new scene or a new girl or new video, you get a little dopamine hit and you get addicted to that novelty. And you start thinking, oh, what makes me happy is having something new, having something slightly better, right? It's that perpetual, constant chase for something slightly better. And my whole life was. Was, you know, like, I'm not satisfied with what I have. I need something slightly better, interesting. And that's insatiable, you know? And so I realized that, like, the other thing I realized is if I don't make a change, I really saw my future. I saw myself as this creepy 70 year old dude hitting on girls at college bars. I was like, if I don't make a change and stop watching porn, that's the future I'm gonna have. I'm just gonna be bouncing from girl to girl, constantly chasing some hot new thing, and it's a miserable life. And that scared the crap out of me. I said, I don't want to that future. So that sent me down this dark rabbit hole, which then led me to the bookstore and got me into all these books on positive psychology and Buddhist meditation. And then the rest is history.

[Joe]

So in the. In the time of discontentment, when you were on a lot of porn, I don't know how else to put it. Did you find yourself? Because I know you said, always looking for something new and needing a little bit better. Did you find yourself idealizing a lot of situations? Are you taking Maka yet?

[Travis]

I. I am.

[Joe]

And.

[Travis]

It'S pretty cool. Yeah, I'm only on day three.

[Joe]

Yeah. Which one are you taking? You on the black. Yeah, I do the black too. I do the black and I do the tri blend. Oh, you do two, I do two. Okay, technically three, because the blend is a blend of three. Okay, well, so if you don't know about maca, it is a root native to Peru. It grows in three colors. Black, red and yellow or yellow or yellow. Yellow or yellow. I take the black and I take the tri blend. My girl takes the red and you take the black.

[Travis]

I do.

[Joe]

Typically, yeah, men take the black, women take the red, and then you intersperse the triple end. But it has a lot of benefits. I've been taking it daily for a little over A year. I have noticed a lot mood, skin, hair, energy. If you've heard testosterone, you know, libido.

[Travis]

I've had a lot of improvements. Yeah, all true.

[Joe]

And we get. Well, I get our. I get my maca. And I have been from a company called the Maca team. They are the biggest supplier of genuine maca from Peru. The biggest supplier in America. And they are nice enough to partner with. Partner with us and give a discount code. If you want to try out maca, you can go to the macateam.com secondhand therapy and you can use code bear cub for 10 off. Oh, fancy. So yeah, if you want to try some maca, try it out, dudes. Try the black ladies. Try the red. Or try the try but at least go to the website, read about it, see if you might want to do it. It's not pharmaceutical, it's all natural. I've been taking it for over a year. I like it. You're three days in, you're less annoying.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

So we did it.

[Travis]

We did it.

[Joe]

The Mocka team.com secondhand therapy. Check it out.

[Travis]

Hey, if you're tired of hearing these ads, which I'm sure you are, you should head on over to Patreon. There are ad free episodes and early access to episodes. You could be hearing this a week early along with accent, along with access to a. An entirely different podcast. Some would say a better one called the other shit show.

[Joe]

It is fun.

[Travis]

It's non therapy related.

[Joe]

It is fun.

[Travis]

Super fun. Plus you have, you have early access to my new podcast series Happy not funny. And it's ad free episodes on that as well. Also fun merch discounts. Also fun live show things where we interact with the audience.

[Joe]

Live streams is what he's trying to say.

[Travis]

We are not going on tour. Yeah, that's true. What did I say?

[Joe]

You said live shows.

[Travis]

Well, same same. You know, it's like a live show. Nope, it's like a zoom.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Travis]

Anyways, you'll have access to us in a more intimate manner.

[Joe]

Intimate.

[Travis]

How about that?

[Joe]

Intimate. There's no end.

[Travis]

Yeah, like the candidate.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Like the candies.

[Joe]

Intimate.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Also if you sign up, you get a little treat.

[Travis]

Oh yeah.

[Joe]

So check out the different tiers. One of the tiers is just if you're just here for secondhand therapy, you want no ads, we'll send you a dope little sticker. And I'm gonna be honest with you, a lot of time went into designing this sticker. Yeah, too much. You can argue too much dope sticker though. So if you sign up for that tier, we'll send you a sticker. The next tier, if you want the other podcast, if you want the bonus stuff from Secondhand Therapy, all the little extras, you get the sticker, and we're gonna send you a signed print designed by yours truly. That took way too much time. Still, way too much time. We'll sign it, we'll send it out to you, and then we have the top tier with the live streams. If you want to hang out with us a couple times a month, you get the sticker, the print, and we'll send you a T shirt that we are not selling or getting anywhere else. So check out Patreon. If you sign up, you get some treats, and it's a good way to support the podcast.

[Travis]

We'll see you over there.

[Joe]

Thanks.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

I found myself, you know, particularly in my relationships, having incredibly high expectations and unrealistic expectations. You know, it's like I would fantasize about some girl and be like, oh, man, I gotta. Gotta get with her. I gotta approach her, I gotta talk to her. And then we would get together. It would be great for couple days, and then I would think, ah, you know, but she's. She's got a little bit of this, or her breath kind of smells or I need something better, you know, and so I had these unrealistic expectations that somebody should be perfect. Because in porn, you know, you're training your brain that you can have perfection, and all it takes is to look a little bit harder, and then you'll find something slightly better. And also, you know, whenever porn is all, you know, perfect people, right. It's whatever you're searching for. And so you start to think that that is attainable, like, oh, I can. I can have exactly what I want, when I want with no risk of rejection. You know, it's all within my power. I can have whatever I want. And that translates to your real life. You know, you get kind of greedy and you don't know how to be content and appreciative of what's right there in front of you. So, yeah, in. If that answers your question. Like, I'm not sure exactly if. Yeah, you're asking about.

[Joe]

No, that makes sense.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Yeah.

[Joe]

What do you got going on over there?

[Travis]

I'm just seeing a lot of overlap. You know, I'm somebody who started watching porn at an early age. I discovered it around, like, 11, I think, somewhere around there. And it started the same way. Dirty magazines and then VHS tapes, because I'm old. And then as the Internet came Along you, you know, it just got more powerful, more obtainable. And yeah, I never really thought of it as like a problem because it was so common. All of my friends were watching porn. Everybody, you know, it's. Sex is everywhere. Yeah.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

It's normalized. Yeah.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Well, and the other thing, you know, just to, to butt in on you for a second, like the other big issue that I realized, and that probably is why you didn't realize it was an issue, is that a lot of the consequences of porn, it's not like the consequences of shooting up heroin. It's not like something you notice right away as, oh my gosh, you know, like some crazy hangover. A lot of the consequences are very subtle and they're downstream and they're long term. So they're things that slowly, almost imperceptibly affect you over long periods of time. Like if you look at yourself from one year to five years later, you can see how it's impacted you. But on a day to day basis, it just feels like you're watching tv. Like, it doesn't necessarily feel like anything's really changing about you. So a lot of the consequences are just very subtle and they build up slowly over time, which is why most people don't notice it. And then on top of that, as you mentioned, it's just normalized. Everybody does it, it's common. What's the big deal? We don't realize that it actually is harm.

[Travis]

Yeah. Which makes it sound like every other addiction. Right. Like when people are alcoholics or whatever. Like, what's the big deal? Everybody's drinking this and that. Yeah, it. But it is, it is an addiction. And it, and I also found myself, you know, fantasizing or idealizing relationships or situations throughout my life that were fueled by lust or fantasy. And yeah, it's just interesting looking at again, like the idea of what you were talking about. Like, you, you get these perfect scenarios in these scenes, or maybe not even how they look, but how they behave. And then you get the real life scenarios. And sex is awkward a lot of times, especially with new people. Like, sex is not like it is on screen. It's awkward a lot of times and it's human. And yeah, it's just interesting that a lot of that is fueled by lust and fantasy versus the reality of what it actually is.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Yeah. And that's another thing that, you know, is a whole rabbit hole we could get into. It's like it's not just the unrealistic expectations of what bodies should look like, but it's how people should be acting and also the, our expectations of what we think women are interested in. You know, because again, the majority of what we see on, on pornhub and porn sites is extreme fantasy because it's the most clickbaity. You know, it's what gets people hooked on it. So it's all, you know, pretty extreme stuff. And on top of that, it's not realistic of what intimacy is all about. I mean, there's no communication, there's no consent. You know, if anything, it's the opposite. We're kind of, you know, making it seem like a lack of consent is what women want, that they want to just be, you know, grabbed and thrown against the wall or whatever. And you know, I've said this before in zero porn scenes ever. Will you ever see a girl turn down sex and that request be kind of accepted?

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

You will never see a girl say hey, I'm not interested right now or I'm not interested in you. And the man saying, okay, hey, thanks for letting me know. And so imagine what this does. Imagine a 10 year old boy watching porn every night for the next 10 years. He's logging onto Pornhub and watching everything he's seeing there. He's getting the impression that women are always in the mood. If you make an advance, she'll reciprocate, she'll be up for it. If she resists, it's just because she's playing hard to get and she likes it rough. And so this is totally warping, you know, what young men think of as healthy intimacy. They also think, you know, anal is what every girl likes. Every girl likes to be choked. You know, it's like, because that's the majority of what they're seeing. And so, you know, I'm really concerned about the younger generation because at least in our generation, it's like VHS and you know, magazines and then dial up, you had to download like a photo at a time and. But now, I mean, imagine being 8 years old and having access to high speed hardcore Internet porn where you could get down a really dark rabbit hole. And now there's AI porn which is even darker. I mean, it gets really dark on some of that stuff. And so, you know, it's just, it's a, it's a big problem and it's getting worse.

[Joe]

I read, I read a thing recently saying that younger people in their first sexual experiences, so like mid teens are essentially finding out that when they're with a real person appear that they are unable to get stimulated or even be Interested because they've seen so much sexual content that is nothing like what is right in front of them. So you have these teenagers that like, can't get an erection. Can't. And they're like, not even interested in a real person. And it's wild.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Yeah, I mean, rates of, of erectile dysfunction, delayed ejaculation, all kinds of issues have skyrocketed. And it's exactly for this reason. I mean, if. If you've been fed a diet of hyperextreme porn scenes, then first of all, you're training your brain that what arouses you is watching kind of something 2D on a screen in front of you, not being next to a real person that's 3D and has smells and sounds and farts occasionally. You know, all these kinds of things. Like, like you said, it's messy, it's human. And so first of all, you just, your brain doesn't recognize that this is what sex is. It thinks this is some foreign thing. This isn't arousing. And then on top of that, you know, when you're used to crazy fantasy porn, just having a normal, quote, unquote, normal sexual experience doesn't do it for you. And so you see erectile dysfunction just skyrocketing.

[Joe]

Man, that's crazy. Do you know, I don't know if you're an expert in this way. Do you know what qualifies as porn addiction as being addicted?

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Yeah, it's. I mean, it really depends on how each person. Because there's a lot of different definitions of addiction. It. You used to see this argument, you know, five years ago, 10 years ago, people would say, oh, porn isn't an addiction. You can't be addicted to porn. There's no physical withdrawal. Yeah, you still hear it from time to time. You still meet therapists who say, ah, you can't be addicted. It's. You just have a high sex drive. You know, those people are very much getting drowned out. And for good reason. We know you can get addicted. It can be a very serious addiction. What addiction is, you know, one definition is just any behavior that you repeatedly do despite the negative consequences. If you keep doing something but it's causing harm in your life and you keep doing it anyway, you could classify it as an addiction. And you know, there are other things you can look at, like, is there a sense of powerlessness? Is there a lack of control? Is there escalation? Do you need more and more of the same thing in order to get the same hit? But all of those are true. With porn addiction, you know, you see it escalating. I need a more extreme video. I need, you know, and so porn is definitely an addiction. The question is, a lot of people have is how do I know if I'm addicted? Is there a number? Like if I watch three hours a day, is that an addiction? But two and a half hours a day isn't an addiction. And what I like to say is there isn't any number. You really have to do just a self diagnosis and ask yourself, is this behavior causing more harm than it's bringing benefit into my life? If that's the case, it's an addiction somewhere on the spectrum. It might be a minor addiction, but it's still an addiction. It might be an extreme addiction where you're getting into illegal stuff and cheating on your partner and losing money. You know, it's a spectrum of addictions. But the basic question of is this thing causing harm in my life? Is it causing more harm than it's bringing good to my life, than it's an addiction?

[Travis]

With the rise of porn getting banned in America and your feelings towards what it does to the brain and how harmful it is, is there such thing as a healthy relationship with porn? Because like, some people are like, I have a healthy drinking problem or what are other addictions or whatever? Like, do you feel like there is a. Yeah. A healthy avenue or is it just all the way.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Yeah, it's such a great question. My personal view. So I'm not. I don't come at this from a religious perspective. I'm not like a porn is a sin kind of thing. I grew up in a pretty liberal household where sex was celebrated. And what I would say is it's a little bit of that. Like, if somebody has a healthy relationship, then sure. But I would say for 99% of guys, they don't have a healthy relationship with it. Even if they think they do that very rarely does somebody. Is somebody able to just kind of watch it occasionally and it actually is bringing more benefit to their life than the harm that it's causing on a subconscious level. Because what benefit?

[Joe]

I was just going to ask.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

I was like, what makes a little bit of. Yeah, well, there's the obvious benefit that it brings for almost everyone, which is pleasure and distraction, escape. Right. So it does. Those can be benefits. You know, pleasure feels good, you know, distraction. Sometimes it's like that is a benefit. Right. If there wasn't a benefit, people wouldn't get addicted to it. Right. And then escape. So there is benefit. A lot of it. Is short term, but the harms, the long term consequences, sometimes even the short term consequences, almost always, especially for men, outweigh those. The benefits, like 99.9% of the time, I would say for men it's just going to be unhealthy. It's going to cause more damage to your satisfaction in your relationships, to your ability to focus and live out your purpose and focus on the things that are really important to you. Go to the gym, exercise, get out in nature. All the things that actually make particularly us men feel really good and fulfilled. It just steals your energy from that. Now I will say, you know, that might be slightly different for women. Women definitely can be addicted. You know, some of my clients are women. And you can get addicted to porn. A lot of women can get addicted to romance novels because for women it's more about the story, the kind of the character. So romance novels can be an addiction as well. But you know, some, I would say women have more of a capacity to have a quote unquote healthy relationship with it. But even then, given the type of porn that we're seeing on just any porn site, just so much of it has a negative impact, you know, as just kind of the way it impacts our expectations of intimacy and ourself. And, you know, it's very rare to find somebody who really uses it to their.

[Travis]

So I was going to ask about the. The difference between men and women and how they intake porn and the addiction rates and things like that. And I just, I didn't know if it was just because it's. It seems more targeted and geared towards men or if there's something else just like in the inner brain workings of men versus women that they're just not as susceptible to pornography as men.

[Joe]

Are you tired of staring at your phone? Are you addicted to it?

[Travis]

Oh, my God.

[Joe]

Are you?

[Travis]

Yeah. Well, yeah, like everybody else. Sure.

[Joe]

Okay. All right, well, I got a new. Let me tell these people about my new phone.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Okay?

[Travis]

Okay.

[Joe]

It's called the light phone.

[Travis]

Oh, I've heard about that.

[Joe]

The light. Yeah, you seem to use it, the light phone. Also known some people call it a dumb phone. Anyway, it's a smartphone. It has Internet, but the Internet will only get you navigation. There is no email, there is no social media, nothing like that. It does calls, it does texts, it does navigation. It has a calendar and a flashlight.

[Travis]

It's like having a BlackBerry again, kinda. Oh, yeah, I love that.

[Joe]

It has a pretty cool camera too. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, it's got a dope Camera on it. It's got a camera.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Anyway, they were nice enough. They sent us a little discount code if anybody wants to get on the light phone train with us. So there's a link in the episode description for the light phone. And then if you want to pre order the light phone three, use code. Secondhand therapy, all lowercase. Try out a light phone. It's pretty great.

[Travis]

Stop your doom scrolling.

[Joe]

Stop your doom scrolling. Be more present in life. Link down below. Promo code. Secondhand therapy, all lowercase. Check out a light phone. Join us in the present world.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Yeah, it's a bit of both. I mean, men are much more visually stimulated erotically. You know, we get stimulated by stuff we see. You know, it's like, oh, I like the look of that. But for women, much more. It's less about the visual stimulation. There is a lot of that for sure, but it's more about the storyline, the character, you know, like the. There needs to be a bit more drama. Usually, like, oh, who is this person? And so visual porn doesn't do it as much as like erotic literature for the most part. These are all generalizations, but there is some kind of biology to that as well. But women definitely can get addicted, and we're seeing it more and more. The rates of that are on the rise.

[Joe]

What advice would you give to somebody that has decided to quit porn if they wanted a successful path to do so?

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

I would say the most important thing someone can do if they want to quit is get connected to a community, a brotherhood, a men's group, a therapist, a coach. Get connected to at least someone, but ideally a community that can help support you in this journey. Because the hardest thing is to do this alone, to try to quit this addiction on your own. It can be done, but it's incredibly difficult because the problem is the moment you slip up and you will slip up with. With porn, it's just. It's everywhere. It's too pervasive, you know, so slips happen. If you're trying to do this on your own, the moment you slip up, you have no accountability to get back on track. You just think, oh, well, this is who I am. I'm always going to be addicted. I'm. I might as well just keep watching. Or you tell yourself the excuse, which I see a lot of, okay, well, I'll just watch for a few more days and I'll start my recovery on next Monday or next month or when I'm a little bit less stressed at work. So having a community that holds you accountable and supports You. And then on top of that, it helps you let go of the shame around this addiction. Because a huge thing with porn addiction and sex addiction is the shame associated with it. Guys feel like they're the only one. They feel like everyone else has a healthy relationship with porn, porn or sexuality. I'm the only pervert who likes to watch this and this and this. I'm the only one who can't control himself. And I'm ashamed of that. And what shame does is it makes you want to isolate and hide away. It makes you want to say, oh, if people knew the truth about me, they would, they would run away, they would point fingers, they would call me a monster. So that shame in every addiction is what keeps people stuck in addiction. But particularly so for porn and sex addictions. Shame is a really huge component of staying stuck in addiction.

[Joe]

Do you.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

So getting connected is the first going.

[Joe]

To ask when you mentioned sex addiction, is there from your experience and your knowledge, is there a high overlap with porn addiction and sex and love addiction?

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

It can be, doesn't have to be though. You know, it's, it's really a case by case basis. For some people it's both and, and for other people it's one or the other. You know, some people are just, you know, some people, because of their porn addiction, it makes it increasingly hard for them to actually go out and, and talk to people and have real sex. And so for them it's just escalating deeper and deeper into the digital world. For some, and this was the case for me, it was both, you know, it's like my porn was also fueling my desire to go out and meet more women and have more sex. And it was both. And for some people, they don't have a porn addiction. And it's, I would say this is rarer that somebody just has a sex addiction or love addiction and they don't watch porn. But that can happen also. So it's really a case by case basis. But what I'll say is, you know, addiction, you know, it's the same at the root for all of these things. And so if you struggle with addiction, it's less about what the particular outlet is, the particular substance or the behavior. It can easily, you know, you can squash it in one spot and it'll just pop up somewhere else. So, you know, if you're addicted to porn, this is why, you know, in my program specifically, we, it's not just about sobriety and just, just stop watching porn. You really have to go to the root of the addiction. You have to understand why you develop that addiction in the first place, because if you just squash it somewhere, it's just going to pop up somewhere else if you never address why you're acting out and trying to escape in the first place. And so that's the same with porn or sex or drugs or anything. It's not. Sobriety is not the same as recovery. Sobriety is just let me use some willpower and, you know, block everything and go into a dark hole and try to distract myself for a while. But recovery is saying, let me untangle the knots of my soul and my mind that made me want to escape and run away and. And cause damage to myself in the first place.

[Joe]

Sobriety is different than recovery. That is. It's a crazy thought that makes.

[Travis]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe]

How you doing over there?

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Great.

[Joe]

All right.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

It's funny because this topic, especially for us men, you know, like, I don't know how old you guys are. I'm guessing you're similar to me, early 20s. Yeah. How old are you?

[Travis]

42 and 20. No.

[Joe]

What.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Anyway, I mean, this topic for. For almost any guy, but particularly guys you know, around our age, like, it's such a. It can be such a confronting and eye opening and just like a. Like a, you know, the, you know, that emoji of the brain having the brain kind of explosion. It's like, oh, man. Like, I never even looked at it this way and thought about my porn habit when I was 8 years old. And, you know, it's kind of wild to look back and think of this thing that really has impacted our lives so deeply. And we rarely in our society stop to think.

[Travis]

Yeah, we were just talking about it last week and going back to the idea of how common it was, I thought the numbers were way higher than they were. Is. He was like. He's like, what's the percentage of people, do you think, that watch porn every day? And I was. I forget. What was the number?

[Joe]

I said, like, you said 75.

[Travis]

75%. I said, yeah, I think 75% of people watch porn every day or at least somewhere around there. And we looked up the numbers, and I don't know if you know the numbers or not, but do you want to take a guess at.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

I don't.

[Travis]

11%, if I had to.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

You mean of people.

[Joe]

People in. In the U.S. percent of people in America that watch porn every day.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Okay, yeah. 11%. That's a little surprising to me. I would have guessed higher also. But I guess if you're factoring in, you Know, men and women, if you're not looking at any kind of age distribution or anything, but I think if you were to look at. It would be a very different question if you say, what's the percentage of men between the ages of 18 to 65? And then if you were to say who have watched it, you know, at least within the last week, because, you know, a lot of people, they are battling it. And so a lot of people do it, like once every two or three days. There are a lot of people who do watch it daily. But a lot of people are in this battle where, you know, they go two, three days and then they watch again. They go two, three days and they watch again. So if you. If you were to ask a question like men 18 to 65 have watched it in the last week, my guess, it'd be up in the 70 to 80% range.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Yeah, that sounds right.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Are you going to talk about you quitting porn or is that off the table?

[Travis]

I'm new to it, so I wasn't going to mention it.

[Joe]

We talk about it or.

[Travis]

No, I mean, we're talking about it now because after that conversation about hearing how uncommon it. How. Yeah, how uncommon it was and how I thought the numbers. And the numbers being vastly different than what they thought they were. And again, just like being, you know, brought up in circles where porn was just common, I never looked at it as a problem. But, yeah, after our conversation last week, I was like, well, I think I'm done with it then. Because it's not doing.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Like we were talking about earlier, there's no real benefits of it.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

One thing I just want to address is, like, this question of, you know, is it common? It's like it almost doesn't matter how common or not it is. The question is, is it healthy?

[Joe]

Thank you.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Like, if 100% of people were doing it, but it was unhealthy and you had some clarity and some awareness to realize, whoa, this is screwing with my relationships. It's screwing with my ability to be satisfied in relationships, to have a sense of self worth, to be in integrity, you know, to talk to women and not objectify them. You know, that's the real question is, is this thing healthy? Is it? Or is it screwing with your life? And so it doesn't matter how many people watch it. You know, it's besides the point. But, you know, so that one of the things that really changed my perspective on this was understanding neuroplasticity. And there was this one quote that I read in in that book that changed my life. The. The book on kind of, you know, Buddhist philosophy, But it was this guy who was also a scientist, and it was on neuroplasticity. And it was. The quote was, neurons that fire together, wire together. And the understanding is that every time you think a certain type of thought, you're strengthening those neural pathways. You know, whatever you think or do or pay attention to, you're strengthening those neural pathways in your mind. And what I realized is, like, every time I was watching porn, I was strengthening the neural pathway of craving and lust and wanting something I didn't have. And you're just building up this super highway of what that essentially is is dissatisfaction. Because the flip side of the same coin of craving is, I'm not satisfied with what I have. I want something else. That's what craving is. I need that other thing in order to be happy. And so it just makes it so much harder to be satisfied with anything in your life. With yourself, with your partners, with your career, with the amount of money in your bank. It makes you look at the world with this lens of, I don't have enough. I'm not satisfied yet. I need more. You know this in Buddhism, there's this really cool concept. There's these different realms of existence. In Buddhist cosmology, there's like the. The heavenly realm where everything is pleasant and feels good. There's the hell realm where everything is unpleasant and painful. There's the animal realm where it's just kind of animalistic urges and desires. Then there's the human realm that we're in. And then there's this realm called the realm of the hungry ghosts. And it's this realm of these creatures, these ghost like creatures that wander their existence. And they have huge, massive stomachs, massive bellies, and they have tiny pinhole mouths. And so they wander around and they can never eat enough to satisfy their hunger because their mouths are too small and their bellies are too big. And so their whole existence is just wandering, trying to eat enough, but they can never eat enough to satisfy their massive hunger. That's what addiction is like. It's just wandering around thinking, I need something hotter. I need something better. I need more followers, more money, a bigger watch. You know, whatever it is, it's just suffering.

[Joe]

I think I have. And so, like, Gabor Mate has a book.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Yeah.

[Joe]

In the Realm of Hunger Ghosts.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Yeah, yeah. The Realm of the Hungry Ghost.

[Joe]

I have it. Didn't read it. Have it.

[Travis]

I'll read it.

[Joe]

I gotta read it now.

[Travis]

Yeah, I've Always been interested in. In Buddhism. I used to listen to Alan Watts a lot, and Alan would talk about Buddhism and things like that, and it was always interesting to hear the. The thoughts and meditations and things like that of Buddhist.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

It's a really cool philosophy. I mean, it's. You know, I used to think, oh, Buddhism, it's all about, like, rebirth and karma, and you have to believe in all these, you know, funny things. And that kept me away from it. But when I realized it's really just about understanding the dynamics of your mind, understanding what real contentment and happiness is and how the mind works. That's what Buddhism really is in a nutshell. And it's. I mean, it's powerful.

[Joe]

In your experience and knowledge of Buddhism, do you. Buddhism, do you have a strong belief on whether or not happiness is a real thing that is attainable or is that often misconstrued with contentment?

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Great question. And in order to answer that question, it really depends on your definitions and what you're looking at. A lot of people mistake happiness for kind of this ecstatic bliss, you know, big smile on their face, going and dancing in a rave in Ibiza kind of thing. And that's not the happiness that Buddhism is talking about. The happiness that Buddhism is talking about and promising is more of the inner peace, the inner fulfillment, that deep sense of contentment and inner fulfillment with life. And when I went through that experience that I talked about of having that existential crisis, what I realized in that moment is what I really want is inner fulfillment and inner peace. That. That's the happiness that I really aspired to. And definitely, it's possible. It's. I mean, it's Thich Nhat Hanh, who's. This. Was this Vietnamese Buddhist teacher, had this great quote. He said, happiness is. Is all around. It's free for the taking. Help yourself. You know, like, it's. It's right there. It's free. It's. It's. It's right in front of us. You know, in the very simple act of. Of being grateful for what you have is that happiness. When you have a moment of real gratitude, of, whoa, I'm alive. Oh, I'm breathing. Whoa, I have people who love me. You know, any moment of gratitude is a moment of happiness, of that kind of inner fulfillment, and any moment of craving, greed, hatred. I mean, that's what the Buddha talked about. He's like, the roots of suffering are greed, hatred and delusion.

[Joe]

Greed, hatred and delusion.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Okay? And so if. Yeah, greed is. I want that thing. And If I, I'll only be happy if I can get that thing. Hatred is. I hate that thing. If only I didn't have that thing or that person, then I could be happy. It's the aversion that. Just get it away and then I'll be happy. And then the delusion is just kind of a lack of seeing things as they are. A lack of seeing clearly any kind of suffering is greed, aversion or delusion. It's one of those three.

[Joe]

Greed, hatred or delusion. Damn.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

And hatred. You know, the real kind of term there is aversion, like hatred. People think, well, I'm not a hateful person. I don't hate anyone. But aversion is this feeling of, I don't want this, and if I just didn't have this experience, this thing, this person, then I would be at peace. If I just didn't have this knee pain, then I would be okay. If I just didn't have this co worker, then I would be okay. The aversion is this feeling of if I just didn't have that, then I'd be okay. The greed, the craving is the other side, which is, I just need that hot girlfriend. I just need to watch porn. I just need to, you know, whatever it is, then I'll be happy.

[Joe]

I have a hot girlfriend and I gotta tell you, it's a pain in the ass sometimes. It's a real fucking pain in the ass sometimes.

[Travis]

It's greed and aversion at the same time.

[Joe]

It's greed and aversion and delusion. I don't even know what I'm doing. No, she's great. I'm very happy with her.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

I mean, and the delusion is the part of us that thinks, that believes all those stories and doesn't see clearly that like, real happiness is in being of service to other people. Real happiness is in practicing compassion for yourself and for others. Real happiness is in equanimity and being at peace with the way things are.

[Travis]

And that is recovery.

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Doc, there's so many. Yeah.

[Joe]

So have you, have you found all this for yourself?

[Jeremy Lipkowitz]

Well, so I'm not by any means a kind of enlightened being that is kind of just blissfully, you know, floating through life. But what I'll say is that I'm so much better off than I used to be. And it's because of, of this understanding and the training, you know, training my mind to. To be grateful, to be content, to, you know, practice compassion. That's what meditation is, you know, it's just training the mind to cultivate these mental qualities that lead to happiness. So I'm definitely much happier than I was before.

[Joe]

And we know that. Jesus, that's a bear. It's not.