Why Happiness Feels Unsafe | #117

Summary

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Secondhand Therapy Ep. 117: "Why Happiness Feels Unsafe"

Hosts: Louie "Bear" Paoletti & Michael "Cub" Malone
Release Date: February 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Louie and Michael dive deep into a raw, personal exploration of why happiness often feels unsafe—both for them and many listeners. Using their signature blend of comedy and sincerity, the pair unpacks themes from their own therapy work including emotional programming, the fear of joy, inherited guilt, superstition around happiness, and how family history and personal loss color our ability to receive and celebrate good things in life. The show is unflinchingly honest, often hilarious, and peppered with memorable insights and confessions about the messy process of mental health and growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing the "Feelings Wheel" (06:30)

• Cub brings up the "feelings wheel," a therapeutic tool mapping primary and nuanced emotions.
  • Cub (07:00): "On the very outer [rim] are like, the breakdown feelings. And then as you go in, they get more and more broad. The middle is happy, sad, angry, worried..."
  • Major emotions: love, fear, anger, sadness, surprise, joy.

a. Self-Assessment & Emotional Baseline (07:51)

• Cub shares that after analyzing his own feelings wheel, he spends about a third of his waking hours in "sadness."
  • Sub-feelings: hurt, neglected, lonely.
• Bear notes surprise, finding "neglected" compelling given that Cub’s life appears "pretty fulfilled."
• Cub (11:06): "I've been masking my entire existence...I think I don't realize I feel neglected until it’s at a boiling point and has to be expressed."

b. Barriers to Happiness (13:09)

• Bear (Therapist asks): How do you increase your feeling of joy from 33% to 40%? Is it possible?
• Cub (14:09): "I’d like to think so for some people. For me… I believe it’s possible. I don’t believe it to be likely."
• Cub jokes: "I think you got to be really dumb to be happy most of the time" (14:23).
• Bear challenges this, wondering if intelligence is truly required for happiness.

2. Why Happiness Feels Unsafe: Fear, Guilt, and Programming (22:23)

a. Bear’s Emotional Default = Fear

• Self-assesses as living mainly in "fear" (anxious, worried, insecure).
  • Bear (23:00): "Nervous, worried, anxious. Not really horrified or mortified or dreadful, but yeah, anxious."
• Discusses a breakthrough in therapy: admitting he doesn't really know how to be happy.
  • Bear (24:48): "My therapy session this week ended with me saying I don’t know how to be happy."

b. Guilt Associated with Happiness (26:19)

• Bear: "I have guilt if I’m happy."
• Root of guilt: family and hometown culture, suspicion of success or joy.
  • Bear (26:52): "'Oh, you think you’re better than me because you're happy?'"
  • Cub: Recognizes similar patterns—familial messages that being proud or content means "showing off."
• Bear: This is tied up with fear that happiness will be "punished"—either by family, or “the universe.”

c. Superstition and Self-Sabotage (29:52)

• Bear recounts a cycle: whenever he feels good or accomplished, something bad seems to follow (e.g., sudden loss, unexpected financial hit).

  • Detailed story: feeling good after professional breakthroughs, then getting hit with a surprise $4,000 bill (31:01).
  • Links positive events directly to being "punished" by fate.

• Cub points out how this frames happiness as something unsafe—leading to self-sabotage to avoid imagined cosmic retribution.

  • Cub (42:25): "The more I hear you talk about it, the more it sounds like self-fulfilling prophecy... you’re addicted to misery, and your identity is rooted in grief."

3. Gratitude vs. Ego: Seeking a Different Frame (45:15)

• Cub suggests replacing pride/ego with gratitude as a way to experience good moments without superstition or guilt.
  • Cub (45:15): "What if instead of ego and pride, you tried gratitude?"
• Bear reveals he’s consciously been trying to feel gratitude (46:03) but acknowledges the past is weighted toward loss and the expectation of the other shoe dropping.

4. Family Programming and Legacy (51:38)

• Bear explores how his mother’s habits of self-protection and withholding difficult feelings ("so as not to bother anyone") directly affected his own patterns.
  • Bear (52:00): "My mother was not great with self talk… that got passed down to me."
  • Protection and isolation: keeping sadness and pain inside to control how others see him, trying not to be "the bummer" or "the friend on everyone’s suicide watch."
  • Realizes this might deny loved ones the chance to support him, echoing his mother’s mistakes.

5. Vulnerability, Worth, and the Fear of Being Abandoned (50:22, 48:34)

• Shared passage from Matthew Perry’s memoir, Friends, Lovers, and the Big Terrible Thing:
  • Cub Reading (48:34):
    "You can't give away something you do not have. And most of the time I have these nagging thoughts. I'm not enough. I don't matter. I am too needy. These thoughts make me uncomfortable. I need love, but I don't trust it. If I show you who I really am, you might notice me. But worse, you might notice me and leave me... So I will leave you first."
• This resonates deeply, highlighting the underlying theme of self-sabotage and emotional isolation for protection.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Cub (14:09): "I think I'm too smart. I think you got to be really dumb to be happy most of the time."
• Bear (24:48): "I don’t know how to be happy."
• Bear (26:52): "'Oh, you think you’re better than me because you're happy?'"
• Cub (42:25): "The more I hear you talk about it, the more it really sounds like self-fulfilling prophecy to me... I think you're addicted to misery, and your identity is rooted in grief."
• Bear (52:00): "My mother was not great with self talk and I saw the way she treated herself and she talked to herself and that got passed down to me."
• Cub Reading Matthew Perry (48:34): "If I show you who I really am, you might notice me. But worse, you might notice me and leave me. And I can't have that. I won't survive that... So I will leave you first."
• Bear (54:00): "I feel like I'm the friend that is on everybody's suicide watch list. And I don't want to add to that narrative… so I am what I think I'm doing is protecting relationships and friendships by not sharing that part of me and isolating myself."

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Theme | |------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 06:30 | The "Feelings Wheel" explained—mapping out core and nuanced emotions | | 07:51 | Cub’s revelation: spends most waking hours in "sadness" | | 11:06 | Feeling "neglected" despite a "fulfilled" life | | 14:09 | Is it possible to be happy most of the time? "You gotta be real dumb…" | | 22:23 | Bear: self-assessment lands on "fear" as emotional baseline | | 24:48 | Bear: "I don’t know how to be happy" – therapeutic breakthrough | | 26:52 | The guilt of happiness and fear of judgment from family/hometown | | 31:01 | Story: Good events followed by unexpected hardship—reinforcing "curse" | | 42:25 | Cub: "I think you're addicted to misery… identity rooted in grief." | | 45:15 | Suggestion: Try gratitude instead of pride for enjoying success | | 48:34 | Reading from Matthew Perry’s memoir—fear of being seen and abandoned | | 51:38 | Inherited emotional habits from Bear's mother—protection, isolation | | 54:00 | Why Bear hides pain—to “protect” loved ones from his struggles |

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Tone and Atmosphere

The conversation is frank, emotionally resonant, and punctuated with dry humor and self-deprecation (“I think you gotta be really dumb to be happy most of the time”—Cub). Both hosts oscillate between comic relief and courageous vulnerability, offering a glimpse into the behind-the-scenes process of self-reflection and healing—warts, contradictions, and all.

Despite the heavy themes (neglect, inherited shame, midwestern emotional culture, suicide ideation, grief), the episode is consistently laced with humor, warmth, and a sense of camaraderie: “I joke when I’m uncomfortable sometimes,” Cub admits, diffusing tension after challenging moments.

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Final Thoughts

The episode invites listeners to question the roots of their own barriers to happiness—whether it’s emotional programming, inherited guilt, or the belief that feeling good is risky or undeserved. The hosts don’t shy away from the uncomfortable truth that, for some, misery can feel safer and more familiar than joy. Ultimately, they model what it looks like to explore these themes—not with fake optimism, but with honesty, curiosity, and occasional comic relief.

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If you struggle with letting yourself be happy, fear joy, or have been told you’re “too sensitive” or “too much”—there is much to recognize and relate to in this candid, insightful conversation.

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Transcript

[Bear]

Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod I know we talk about betterhelp a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[Cub]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[Bear]

I'm using BetterHelp. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[Cub]

Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[Bear]

Not a good fit. Hey, and that happens. Finding good therapists is, like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[Cub]

And you're married now.

[Bear]

Never. Never.

[Cub]

You're in love now.

[Bear]

I have to talk about this with my therapist.

[Cub]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[Bear]

Absolutely not.

[Cub]

Let's do one together.

[Bear]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[Cub]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you, dude? You think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy.

[Bear]

I know you will.

[Cub]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor. And if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhand therapy. Love you guys.

[Bear]

Welcome back to secondhand therapy. We want to remind you that we are not therapists.

[Cub]

Not yet.

[Bear]

We are not experts. This.

[Cub]

I enrolled in a psychology class, a substitute for therapy.

[Bear]

And this is not professional advice in any way.

[Cub]

Not yet it isn't. Not yet it isn't.

[Bear]

Okay. All right.

[Cub]

Old Louie Petti, MD, PhD. Mother Ducker, LMFC.

[Bear]

LMAO.

[Cub]

Are you laughing at me? Always. Always, buddy. I really did enroll in psychology class.

[Bear]

Did you?

[Cub]

No. You're gonna hear some ads, you're gonna hear some lies, you're gonna hear some truth. And you can only get out of one of those. And it's the Ads.

[Bear]

That's right, baby. Head on over to Patreon for ad free episodes. You get early access to episodes. You get access to our other show that's non therapy related, called the Other show. It's super fun and we get live. We have live hangouts. You can come hang with us. Yep. You get merch discounts and you get an exclusive offer. There's something going on on Patreon right now that I cannot even tell you about. That is on right on there right now. And only Patreon people have access to it right now and I can't even tell you about it.

[Cub]

It will be out publicly by the end of the year. But Patreon gets everything first.

[Bear]

That's right. So it's there. Oh, God.

[Cub]

I want a coffee right now.

[Bear]

You had three today.

[Cub]

I had two and I'd like a third. It's good coffee over there.

[Bear]

Okay.

[Cub]

Grouchy John's.

[Bear]

Okay.

[Cub]

Tasty coffee down there.

[Bear]

Tasty coffee.

[Cub]

I use. I've changed my order.

[Bear]

Okay.

[Cub]

I used to get a latte and now I've just.

[Bear]

Now you don't get so much.

[Cub]

Guys, bleaching yours. You piece of.

[Bear]

You love that and you don't want to admit it. You love that.

[Cub]

That was a very John Dorian kind of joke. And I'm Dr. Cox, so pipe it the down and I'm going to tell you my order. It's a bold drip, 16 ounce with a little bit of cream and a little bit of sugar free hazelnut mold and drip.

[Bear]

That's what she said.

[Cub]

Sometimes sugar free caramel macchiato or as you would say, matino.

[Bear]

Give me a. Give me a caramel matino and they go.

[Cub]

Go the outside, you know, go to Patreon, you know.

[Bear]

Yep.

[Cub]

Patreon.com Secondhand Therapy Fathers giveaways.

[Bear]

There's also some new merch up there. We have new merch up there. We do.

[Cub]

I do dare you to go look at it.

[Bear]

I dare you.

[Cub]

Secondhand therapy. Pod.com for merch. But back to Patreon for one quick second first tier. You sign up early episodes ad free episodes. We're going to send you the best sticker ever created. Tier number two, all the things I just mentioned and access to the other show and all the bonus features for secondhand therapy and any other bonus stuff. We do ASMR readings, other kind of. We're also going to send you a signed print. The greatest print ever designed. Bye, man. Tier three. You get all that and you get to hang out with us on live hangouts at Least once a month, sometimes more. And we're gonna send you a T shirt. Go sign up, dude.

[Bear]

Bro, you do need another coffee.

[Cub]

I do fumes, baby.

[Bear]

You can also contact us.

[Cub]

What's on this fan or something. I'm sweating.

[Bear]

You can contact us. You can send us physical mail or digital mail either. We have a P.O. box. You can send stuff.

[Cub]

We got no Polaroids this week.

[Bear]

No Polaroids.

[Cub]

We did get an ipod with a nice letter.

[Bear]

Oh, yeah. It's very sweet. It was a nice letter.

[Cub]

Yeah. Very nice letter. Sent her a hoodie as a thank you.

[Bear]

You can also send us text messages or voice notes. You can head over there and do that. And all that information is in the description below. If you're listening to this or if you're watching us, wherever it is, there's information.

[Cub]

Yeah.

[Bear]

Yeah, I think that's it. Fuck off. No. Be nice.

[Cub]

Okay. Hello, my little bear cubs.

[Bear]

And welcome back secondhand therapy.

[Cub]

And we know that. You ever seen a feelings wheel?

[Bear]

No.

[Cub]

Okay. What it is, it's a wheel of feelings. All right.

[Bear]

Okay.

[Cub]

So if you still don't know what it is, I can't help you.

[Bear]

Yeah, well, I'm pointing at angry right now.

[Cub]

There's no pointer on the wheel. It's not the Wheel of Fortune. Oh, this guy.

[Bear]

How is it set up, then? It's a wheel with no pointer.

[Cub]

Correct. The pointer is your heart. But it does kind of look like the Wheel of Fortune wheel. So on the very outer are like the breakdown feelings. And then as you go in, they get more and more broad. And then at the middle is happy, sad, angry, worried. And then it breaks down happy into, like, what? Like, spider webs. And so you can, like, narrow down how you're feeling. Oh, boy. My therapist said, where do you exist, do you think? Most of the waking hours on this wheel. And so I analyzed the wheel.

[Bear]

You said, is Malone awake?

[Cub]

I said, well, if he's up, it's annoyed.

[Bear]

We're here in this red section.

[Cub]

Make my feelings wheel about you.

[Bear]

Hey.

[Cub]

And I, after analyzing all the options, came upon sadness most of the time.

[Bear]

Really? My.

[Cub]

Kind of a bummer, huh? About a third of the time, I think.

[Bear]

Really?

[Cub]

Yeah.

[Bear]

Sadness in. In what way?

[Cub]

Sadness in. I'm trying to think. The feelings was broken. It would be great if I brought the wheel with me.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

Like, parts of sadness are hurt, neglected. I don't remember if it was lonely or lonesome. Yeah. Or something like isolated things like that. And those all funnel up to sadness. Yeah.

[Bear]

Which one do you resonate with?

[Cub]

I Don't know. I think it'd be good if I go get the wheel. So along the outer edge are more like very specific feelings than they funnel more specific on the inside. And the inner wheel is broken down into these six main feelings. Are you ready for them?

[Bear]

Yes.

[Cub]

Love, fear, anger, sadness, surprise, and joy.

[Bear]

I. Not to be funny, but I'm surprised that surprise is on there.

[Cub]

Same.

[Bear]

Yeah. Huh.

[Cub]

Would you like to hear some bass feelings of surprise?

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

So my eyes are so bad. Touched, stimulated, astounded, speechless, awestruck, astonished, perplexed. And we switched direction. Disillusioned, bewildered, shocked. And those funnel, more specifically moved, overcome, amazed, confused, stunned.

[Bear]

Hmm.

[Cub]

So of these six.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

She asked me where I think I exist most of the time. So I did a little analysis. Now, here's what I'm going to tell you. First off, it's none of your business. Secondly, I ended up in sadness.

[Bear]

How did you get there?

[Cub]

Okay, I'm going to tell you right now. So here's the thing with sadness.

[Bear]

Okay.

[Cub]

All right. Well, displeased is one, regretful is one. Neglected, lonely, disappointed, hurt are the ones I relate with. So I think I fall under one of those about. I think about the third of the time that I'm awake.

[Bear]

Neglected is interesting.

[Cub]

Is.

[Bear]

Is why your life is pretty fulfilled.

[Cub]

Don't tell me about my life. I've been masking my entire existence. Yeah. I think. Well, I think I don't realize I feel neglected until. I don't want to say it's at a boiling point, but until I, like, can't. It has to, like, I have to express it. Whereas, like, in the moments where I'm like. I feel like if I just spoke up, but, you know, speaking up for my needs is very difficult for me.

[Bear]

Heard. Yeah. Interesting.

[Cub]

Yeah.

[Bear]

But what about the rest of the time?

[Cub]

I mean, a mix. A mix. I. I get some anger in there, I get some love, I get some joy. I would like to. I mean, I want to get where most of the time I'm like. Because what are some of these? Joy. Peaceful, content. And then under love, Affectionate, grateful. I would love to spend the majority of my time in peaceful, content and grateful. Yeah. Yeah. And I think those. I'm probably. Probably about a third of the time, too.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

And then she asked me kind of an interesting question. She said, okay, you're at a third, 33% now. She's like, how do you get that to 40%? Oh, dude, I'm paying you.

[Bear]

That's what I'm paying you for. Yeah.

[Cub]

Hey, and then she goes, do you think it's possible to get to 40%? I was like, oh, well, well, well. And it's 40 enough.

[Bear]

So.

[Cub]

Oh, you know, I don't have the answer to any of those questions.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

How do you get to 40? No clue. Is 40 enough? Well, if 33 is not enough, why would 40 be enough, you know?

[Bear]

Yeah, yeah. That's the tricky one.

[Cub]

Is it possible? I'd like to think so for some people. For me, I would like to think so. But I don't know that I believe that it's. You know what? I believe it's possible. I don't believe it to be likely. I think.

[Bear]

Why?

[Cub]

I don't know. I think I'm. I think. I think I'm too smart. I think you got to be really dumb to be happy most of the time.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

But maybe that's just. Or the feelings wheel. I need to analyze a little more, you know?

[Bear]

Yeah. Because it's interesting, because when you said that first part, like, how do I get to 40? For me, as a dumb person, taking intelligence out of it is like. Intelligence has nothing to do with getting to 40. Like, in raising your happiness and joy. It always. I think just more time comes with that. Right. Like, more time doing the things that you enjoy and taking in life and doing those kind of things. Right. Like, that's. For me, what would raise the bar? Do you not think that?

[Cub]

I don't know. I think if you found the solution, why you so miserable, my guy?

[Bear]

Oh, because I'm good. Good with other people's problems. I'm terrible with mine.

[Cub]

You just said that's what it would.

[Bear]

Be for you if I was in your situation. Yeah. Because you find a lot of peace in these small joys in life and these observing moments and these quiet moments and being grateful. Like, that's really important to you. Like, even this morning when we were having coffee, you said, you know, I make time to have this coffee. It gives me peace and it settles me. And like all the. Like, you're talking about the joy of having just time to go to the coffee shop.

[Cub]

Yeah. So I enjoy a slow morning.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

With freedom. I love freedom.

[Bear]

Yeah. And so if those are the things that are bringing up to.

[Cub]

Not like an American, like a monk or something.

[Bear]

Yeah, that's what I mean. So like this country, if those are the things that are bringing you the 33%, then when adding more of those things, just increase that percentage.

[Cub]

I don't know.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

No, because I think even. Even if you fill your waking Hours with things that bring you joy and peace. I think the human condition is that the appreciation fades. They become less and less special. And I've said it on here a million times. I just, I don't think humans are built to reach satisfaction.

[Bear]

I don't think anybody's operating at 100.

[Cub]

No. If they are, they're lying.

[Bear]

Yeah. I think even, like, going back to, like, the idea of monks and things. Like, I don't think they're at 100 of being like, I'm peaceful and joyful all the time. You're like, no, you're not. There's something, there's something going on.

[Cub]

Yeah. It's like, God, I want to jerk off so bad.

[Bear]

There's something happening.

[Cub]

Yeah, of course. Yeah. I don't, I don't think it's possible to be 100 or I don't even aim to be at 100. Aiming for perfection for me is the quickest way to misery.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

Yeah. I don't know. Why don't you look at this wheel? Tell me where you exist.

[Bear]

Okay.

[Cub]

Are you taking maca yet?

[Bear]

I, I, I am, and it's pretty cool. Yeah, I'm only on day three. Yeah, I'm on.

[Cub]

Which one are you taking? You on the black. Yeah, I do the black too. I do the black and I do the tri blend.

[Bear]

Oh, you do two.

[Cub]

I do two.

[Bear]

Okay.

[Cub]

Technically three, because the blend is a blend of three. Okay, well, so if you don't know about maca, it is a root native to Peru. It grows in three colors. Black, red, and yellow. Or yellow. Or yellow. Yellow or yellow. I take the black and I take the tri blend. My girl takes the red and you take the black.

[Bear]

I do.

[Cub]

Typically, yeah. Men take the black, women take the red, and then you intersperse the triple end. But it has a lot of benefits. I've been taking it daily for a little over a year. I have noticed a lot mood, skin, hair, energy, if you heard testosterone, you know, libido.

[Bear]

I've had a lot of improvements. Yeah.

[Cub]

All true. And we get. Well, I get our. I get my maca. And I have been from a company called the Maca Team. They are the biggest supplier of genuine maca from Peru. The biggest supplier in America. And they are nice enough to partner with. Partner with us and give a discount Code. If you want to try out maca, you can go to the maca team.com secondhand therapy. And you can use code bear cub for 10 off.

[Bear]

Oh, fancy.

[Cub]

So, yeah, if you want to try some maca, try it out, dudes. Try the black ladies. Try the red or try the try. But at least go to the website, read about it, see if you might want to do it. It's not pharmaceutical. It's all natural. I've been taking it for over a year. I like it. You're three days in, you're less annoying. So we did it. We did it. The mateam.com secondhand therapy. Check it out.

[Bear]

Hey, if you're tired of hearing these ads, which I'm sure you are, you should head on over to Patreon. There are ad free episodes and early access to episodes. You could be hearing this a week early along with acc, along with access to a an entirely different podcast. Some would say a better one called the other shit show.

[Cub]

It is fun.

[Bear]

It's non therapy related.

[Cub]

It is fun.

[Bear]

Super fun. Plus you have have. Plus you have early access to my new podcast series, Happy not funny. And it's ad free episodes on that as well. Plus fun merch discounts. Also fun live show things where we interact with the audience.

[Cub]

Live streams is what he's trying to say.

[Bear]

We are not going on tour. Yeah, that's true. What did I say?

[Cub]

You said live shows.

[Bear]

Well, same same. You know, it's like a live show. Nope, it's like a zoom.

[Cub]

Okay.

[Bear]

Anyways, you'll have access to us in a more intimate manner.

[Cub]

Intimate.

[Bear]

How about that?

[Cub]

Intimate. There's no end.

[Bear]

Yeah, like the candidate, like the candies.

[Cub]

Intimate.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

Also, if you sign up, you get a little treat.

[Bear]

Oh yeah.

[Cub]

So check out the different tiers. One of the tiers is just if you're just here for secondhand therapy, you want no ads, we'll send you a dope little sticker. And I'm gonna be honest with you, a lot of time went into designing this sticker. Yeah, too much. You can argue. Too much dope sticker though. So you signed for that tier, we'll send you a sticker. The next tier, if you want the other podcast, if you want the bonus stuff from secondhand therapy, all the little extras, you get the sticker and we're going to send you a signed print designed by yours truly. That took way too much time. Still way too much time. We'll sign it, we'll send it out to you, and then we have the top tier with the live streams. If you want to hang out with us a couple times a month, you get the sticker, the print, and we'll send you a T shirt that we are not selling or getting anywhere else. So check out Patreon. If you sign up, you get some treats, and it's a good way to support the podcast.

[Bear]

We'll see you over there.

[Cub]

Thanks so much. Yeah.

[Bear]

You know what? Going into this, I thought for sure I'd be sadness. Okay? And instead, I'm ending in fear.

[Cub]

Yeah, give me some. Give me some outer words.

[Bear]

Fear. Scared. Helpless. Helpless. Terrified. Panicked. Insecure. Oh, that's a big word for Elmo. Inferior.

[Cub]

Inferior.

[Bear]

Inadequate.

[Cub]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Bear]

Nervous, worried, anxious. Not really horrified or mortified or dreadful, but, yeah, anxious.

[Cub]

Was that dreadful? The last one?

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

Okay.

[Bear]

Yeah. Anxious, Worried, Nervous. Insecure, helpless.

[Cub]

It's interesting because my initial thought for insecure and adequate is sadness. But then when I think about it, it makes sense that that's fear.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

Because those kind of ring with unsafe to me.

[Bear]

My. This is so interesting. We ended my therapy session this week with me telling him that I don't know how to be happy.

[Cub]

That's better than the usual pinky promise that you're not gonna kill yourself.

[Bear]

If we're being honest, suicide did come up. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. Our old friend.

[Cub]

Yeah, I thought about killing myself yesterday. Not seriously. My girl was annoying me, and I was like, what if I just put a bullet in my head?

[Bear]

These. These spouts of, like, how do I get out of this moment?

[Cub]

Yeah.

[Bear]

Is so wild.

[Cub]

And I'm. I'm fully aware of, like, the permanence, and I'm not making, like, a plan or anything, right, but the fact that it creeps in my head, like, yeah, you just put a bullet in your head.

[Bear]

And then.

[Cub]

Then she gets to figure it out.

[Bear]

Then she gets, you know, just the.

[Cub]

Most spiteful, childish way to win an.

[Bear]

Argument, then she gets to figure out.

[Cub]

She gets to figure it out is diabolical. My day. Hey, what's that noise? Easter egg hunt for you. Yeah, I talked about that in therapy once. I was like, yeah, I think about killing myself. I was like, never plan it. I. Sure. He goes, wouldn't it be nice not to think about it? What are you even talking about, dude?

[Bear]

Yeah, that's not real.

[Cub]

And kill myself right near your answer right now. I'm gonna slam my head through this.

[Bear]

Window so you'll never forget. You'll always think, oh, man, you don't.

[Cub]

Know how to be happy. So when you look at the happiness words.

[Bear]

Yeah, like reading German. Yeah. I mean, proud is in there. Cool. You're a proud boy. I just have a neck tattoo. I'm not a proud boy. Okay.

[Cub]

Yeah, you're right.

[Bear]

Proud is in there. Zealous. Cheerful.

[Cub]

You mask is cheerful.

[Bear]

Yeah, I'm. Yeah, I'm Midwestern. Nice. Yeah, yeah. I'm publicly polite. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I can't figure out how to be.

[Cub]

Happy.

[Bear]

I want to be.

[Cub]

Are you sure?

[Bear]

Yeah, it goes back to that. I think we've talked a little bit about it on here is like, that guilt. I have guilt if I'm happy.

[Cub]

Why are you guilty about?

[Bear]

It goes back to the idea of, like, oh, you think you're better than me.

[Cub]

You.

[Bear]

Because you're happy.

[Cub]

Who.

[Bear]

You figured it out.

[Cub]

Who's saying that to you in your head?

[Bear]

Family. People in my hometown.

[Cub]

Yeah. Say, what are their names?

[Bear]

It's everybody. Every family member.

[Cub]

Yeah.

[Bear]

Oh, you. Oh, so you're. You're better than me.

[Cub]

Yeah, I kind of have that. Kind of. I have people in my family like that.

[Bear]

It's like, no, I'm just. And I. That also goes into pride and all the other. I can't be. I can't be proud about something because then it's showing off and then it's, you know. Yeah. All that feeds into guilt of, Like, selfishness. Oh, you're doing. You're doing so, so well. Give me a little.

[Cub]

Kill yourself.

[Bear]

Oh, oh, you can't. You can't give me a little.

[Cub]

A little what?

[Bear]

Anything. Tour dates, money, attention, anything. You can't put me on, buddy. I'm barely here. Yeah, I'm barely here, dog. You. Then. Okay, all right, well.

[Cub]

And then you have to make them like you again.

[Bear]

Yeah. Then it's just. It better just shut up then.

[Cub]

Damn.

[Bear]

Better just shut my mouth, cuz.

[Cub]

Yeah. So if that's what comes with happiness, why would you want to be happy?

[Bear]

I want it without that. I want to be able to be happy without that. I think that's what happiness is, is not having that weight of guilt dragging behind it. Right. Like, that's. That's happiness, joy.

[Cub]

Like, where's the guilt coming from?

[Bear]

Just programming. I think a little bit of it, too, is, like. It's going so well. It's about to get real bad. And we're back to fear. Yeah. Oh, you. You're. You're on the come up. You got this going. You got that going. Things are going really well. Just. Just wait a second. And then life comes and just takes and you go, oh. So it's best just to shut up and keep your head down and not be happy, not be proud, not do anything, Just keep moving because the minute you speak up, like, the universe hears you. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, cool, you're in a good mood. Let me take some of that from you.

[Cub]

So what's the last thing the universe did to you?

[Bear]

I mean, again, it's not. You're in language things, right. You're trying to get me caught up here on things happening to me.

[Cub]

Just a question, my guy. The.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

When's the last time you were riding high in the universe? Whatever. Something happened.

[Bear]

It happens. It happens in, like, small doses. But like, six months ago.

[Cub]

I.

[Bear]

I was doing well. And six months ago, August.

[Cub]

Ish.

[Bear]

A little bit before that.

[Cub]

Okay.

[Bear]

I was doing well and had work coming in. Feeling good was a couple contracts that come in. I was. I was like. I was like, dude, this is. I'm. I finally feel, like, good, you know, financially and, like, all this stuff.

[Cub]

What other stuff besides financially?

[Bear]

Just proud of myself for, like, the work that I was doing and, like, the work I was about to be doing. And, like, I was in a good relationship, and things were just, like. Things were good.

[Cub]

Okay.

[Bear]

Things were good. And then I got a phone call about some thing that happened years ago that I thought was taken care of. And it cost me almost $4,000 just out of nowhere. And so I was like, oh, cool. And then I had to get. Do all that and then talk to lawyers and do this and that and, like, all that. And so it was like, all right, well, back to hustling, you know?

[Cub]

And that happened. Part of you believes because you were doing well.

[Bear]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. I put my guard down, and then the universe was like, oh, let's get him. I was like. I was like, man, things are great in the universe.

[Cub]

You think the universe isn't on commisery?

[Bear]

I think. Yeah. I don't know what it is.

[Cub]

Wow.

[Bear]

That's what I'm programmed to think, you know? Yeah. You.

[Cub]

Yeah. But you believe it.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

Damn.

[Bear]

I don't know how to unbelieve it, you know?

[Cub]

Yeah. Can I just give you a different point of view? Sure. Look, I'm not a hippie, dippy kind of guy.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

All right? And I know that, like, it was odd. It was crazy timing. You were doing well, and then the DNA results came back and you had to settle this lawsuit.

[Bear]

Oh, God. That's not even what. This is not the show.

[Cub]

This is a documentary.

[Bear]

This is now. This is a different show.

[Cub]

You skirted jail time, and I'm proud of you for that.

[Bear]

That's not true. It's not even true.

[Cub]

They're putting you away.

[Bear]

Oh, my God.

[Cub]

All right. What? I'm not a hippie dippy. And you don't cut any of that out. That's a good bit for the record. Yeah.

[Bear]

Car accident. Go on.

[Cub]

Yes, yes. And you finally paid for that woman's funeral.

[Bear]

That's not.

[Cub]

And that was nice of you.

[Bear]

That's not.

[Cub]

Then you've been sober since, and that's great. And we're proud of you. Recovery is. Is. Is very.

[Bear]

These aren't true. Please, save it for the show.

[Cub]

Okay. Not hippie dippy guy.

[Bear]

Huh?

[Cub]

But I mean, you could also look at it if you wanted to believe something different. Only if you wanted to. That the universe waited to hit you with that until you were prepared to take it.

[Bear]

Yeah, you could. I could.

[Cub]

But that man, you know.

[Bear]

Yeah. Well, tell me. Okay, let's talk about balance.

[Cub]

Let's.

[Bear]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, you're right. I could look at it that way. No, not.

[Cub]

Yeah, talk about balance. I can tell you're dealing with some emotions right now. What's going on?

[Bear]

I'm just thinking, like, I don't really want to get into it. It's just like. It's just gonna sound like, poor me. And I don't want that. I don't want poor me.

[Cub]

We got 115 episodes, my guy.

[Bear]

Yeah, it's just like those trade offs sometimes. Yes. In that instant. Yes. But the programming comes, like, you know, there's a lot of. I don't know if you know this about me, but there's a lot of death happening a lot of times around me.

[Cub]

Well, and I would say in the past. Yeah, And I would also say you got a real tight grip on it.

[Bear]

Yeah, well, there's nobody left. That's why it's in the past, you know.

[Cub]

Oh, boy. Okay.

[Bear]

So, Yeah, it's like these things happen, these good things happen, and then these people get taken away from me. And so as a result. I don't know as a result, but the timing is always weird. And so it reinforces that programming. And sure, there are instances, like what we were just talking about, where I could look at that, what you pointed out as like, yeah, there's a positive here. And like, thank God I was in a position to take care of that.

[Cub]

I didn't mention God at all.

[Bear]

But there is. There are moments that reinforce that programming too. Like. Yeah, I. Yeah, there's just moments that. That have been really good and then they're followed with tragedy. And it's so. It. Yeah.

[Cub]

That's it.

[Bear]

Yeah, so it reinforces. So it's hard to unprogram when. Sometimes the program be programming, you know.

[Cub]

All right. Are you tired of staring at your phone? Are you addicted to it?

[Bear]

Oh, my God.

[Cub]

Are you?

[Bear]

Yeah. Well, yeah, like everybody else. Sure.

[Cub]

Okay. All right, Well, I got a new. Let me tell these people about my new phone.

[Bear]

Okay? Okay.

[Cub]

It's called the light phone.

[Bear]

Oh, I've heard about that.

[Cub]

The light. Yeah, you seem to use it. The light phone. Also known some people call it a dumb phone. Anyway, it's a smartphone, it has Internet, but the Internet will only get you navigation. There is no email, there is no social media, nothing like that. It does calls, it does texts, it does navigation. It has a calendar and a flashlight.

[Bear]

It's like having a BlackBerry again.

[Cub]

Kinda. Oh, yeah, I love that. It has a pretty cool camera too. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, it's got a dope camera on it. It's got a camera. Yeah. Anyway, they were nice enough, they sent us a little discount code if anybody wants to get on the light phone train with us. So there's a link in the episode description for the light phone. And then if you want to pre order the light phone. 3 use code. Secondhand therapy, all lowercase. Try out a light phone. It's pretty great.

[Bear]

Stop your doom scrolling.

[Cub]

Stop your doom scrolling. Be more present in life. Link down below. Promo code. Secondhand therapy, all lowercase. Check out a light phone. Join us in the present world.

[Bear]

Okay. I'm working Brad's for the first. First time working with Brad. We have a great time and then I get invited back to do New Year's Eve with him. I do New Year's Eve with Brad. It's my. It's a big deal for me at the time. And. That week Wayne had a stroke and a heart attack and. Died a few days after that. Yeah, man.

[Cub]

So.

[Bear]

The program be programming. There's a lot of those in there. There's more of those than there are the other thing I mentioned. Yeah. So. Yeah, it's hard to unlearn that.

[Cub]

You want to and you want to unlearn it.

[Bear]

I would like to be less superstitious about. About that. Yeah. Yeah. I would like to feel pride. I would like to feel joy. I would like to. I'd like to put my guard down.

[Cub]

How do you have your guard up against the universe? What does that mean?

[Bear]

Just staying busy and staying quiet.

[Cub]

From the universe. Okay.

[Bear]

Yeah, man.

[Cub]

Yeah.

[Bear]

Yeah. I'm just trying to make enough noise, you know. I'm just trying to. Just trying to sneak by, you know, so if karma sees me. Oh, buddy, he's going to be like, oh wait, that dude's on my list. I'm like, h, yeah, okay, you don't have any of that.

[Cub]

I mean, I think I have moments of superstition and I mean there are moments when I've been really scared that I will ask God for help even though I don't know that I believe in a God or pray any other time other than when I'm terrified.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

See I think I have some of that, but I think I have a pretty good belief that life is constantly full of ups and downs and a lot of happens all the time to everybody.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

And I think if I really tried every bad thing that's happened to me, I could probably tie to a good thing.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

Because I don't know, the more I hear you talk about it, the more it really sounds like self fulfilling prophecy to me. And I've told you, I've been telling you for 10 years, I think you're avoiding success. And now I hear why, even though you sit there. Why? Why would I not want to be successful? I'm like, well, you're constantly shooting yourself in the foot. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, you shoot yourself in the foot and it doesn't work out and you go, it's the universe. It's because I got that free sandwich coupon. I knew it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's self fulfilling prophecy.

[Bear]

So you have no feelings of, for lack of a better term like superstition attached to ego or pride or anything like that?

[Cub]

No, I don't. I don't believe I do. I may have in the past, but yeah, I don't have a thing. Like if I feel proud of myself then something bad's going to happen to me or they're going to. The universe is going to take it away.

[Bear]

Yeah. It happens in like again like small moments. Like when I'm, when I was performing, if I was like on a hot streak and I was like, oh, I'm killing it, like the minute I felt like I'm on fire, oh, I'd eat it. And so it's just. Yeah. It just would happen that way. Yeah. So it's hard for me to have those moments of being like.

[Cub]

I get.

[Bear]

Yeah. I don't know what that is. Yeah. It's tied to ego and pride. Right. Being like, oh, I'm hilarious. And it's like, oh, okay, let's see.

[Cub]

What if you quit coming at it with ego and pride?

[Bear]

Well, that's what I mean. Like feeling good about yourself has ego and pride. Right. Like, if I'm feeling like, oh, man, I feel really good about myself and, like, I'm really killing these shows. Eat it.

[Cub]

I mean, that's a very. Everything you just said was so egotistical.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

But even.

[Bear]

Even in those moments where I'm talking, like, another example I gave with. With working with Brad and stuff, like, I was on top of the world. Like, holy. Here I am. Like, this is crazy. I'm like, Cool.

[Cub]

Yeah.

[Bear]

So, yeah, it's. Yeah. Just to shut up and keep. Keep moving thing.

[Cub]

What if instead of ego and pride, you tried gratitude. Instead of. Bro, I'm. I killing these rooms all weekend. Had a really good show.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

Like, this is my job. That's so cool. And it went well tonight. How great is that?

[Bear]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Cub]

You think the universe would punish you for that?

[Bear]

I don't know. I mean, I've. That is a switch that I've made in the last couple of years, but I haven't been performing and things like that.

[Cub]

Like, it goes to other areas. Yeah. Yeah.

[Bear]

But, yeah, I'm. I've been trying to focus on gratitude. Gratitude. I've been trying to just tell myself. I. I thought about that.

[Cub]

Just.

[Bear]

Was it yesterday or yesterday or the other day? I was riding the bike and I was, like, really focusing on gratitude and not ego and pride, and I was like, man, here you are, middle of the day, riding your motorcycle. Like, you get to do this. Like, you get to. You know, you're. You have this podcast is doing well. You have this. These projects that people are trusting you with. Like, just, like, enjoy this. So. Yeah.

[Cub]

And what happened? You get by a truck or something.

[Bear]

Financially? No, not yet.

[Cub]

And as soon as something happens, you'll be like, it's because that bike ride.

[Bear]

Because I told myself, you're doing good, kid. You're doing good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cub]

I've been saying for years, man, I don't think you want to be happy. I don't. I don't think you want to be happy. I don't think you want to be successful. I think you. I think you're addicted to misery, and I think. I think your identity is rooted in grief.

[Bear]

Yeah, we talked a little bit about that this week. What'd you want to read me?

[Cub]

Not yet.

[Bear]

Why?

[Cub]

I think it's a. I'll do it at the end.

[Bear]

Okay. Interesting.

[Cub]

You know, I'll read it now if you want. You want it now?

[Bear]

Yeah, it'd be great.

[Cub]

Okay. So I have started reading Matthew Perry's memoir titled Friends, Lovers, and the big terrible thing and so after the introduction, I'm going to show you. This is chapter one. Okay. What I'm going to read you is here.

[Bear]

Okay.

[Cub]

Okay.

[Bear]

So a page and a half. Yeah.

[Cub]

Okay, let me see here. Okay, Are you ready?

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

You can't give away something you do not have. And most of the time I have these nagging thoughts. I'm not enough. I don't matter. I am too needy. These thoughts make me uncomfortable. I need love, but I don't trust it. If I show you who I really am, you might notice me. But worse, you might notice me and leave me. And I can't have that. I won't survive that. Not anymore. It will turn me into a speck of dust and annihilate me. So I will leave you first. I will fabricate in my mind that something went wrong with you and I will believe it and I'll leave. Now I read that and I was like, that reminds me of somebody. What do you think? Are you gonna cry right now? No, he's non verbal. Oh, there it is.

[Bear]

Yeah. Can't relate. We talked about, Talked about a lot of things this week in therapy and.

[Cub]

Well, we're an hour in. Let's get into it.

[Bear]

What we came around to. What we came around to. Yeah. Was protection and isolation. And we were talking about my mother and we'll get into that another time.

[Cub]

I know we haven't talked about her yet. How's she doing? She live?

[Bear]

I'm going to tell you, I'm not doing great.

[Cub]

Yeah. Arguably better than all of us.

[Bear]

What, what it came down to was protection for her. That's what I wanted to, to provide was protection. And he asked me from what. And I said pain. And he said, from who? And I said, from herself.

[Cub]

And.

[Bear]

My mother was not great with self talk and I saw the way that she treated herself and she talked to herself and that got passed down to me.

[Cub]

And.

[Bear]

He said, you know, we got into protection and isolation and I got to talking about when I'm in a funk. Oh, this is important. I was talking about what stemmed from this was like, how, how can, how can you be mad at dead people without hurting their feelings? That's how up I am. I'm worried about hurting dead people's feelings. And my mother would protect me from a lot of things. She wouldn't share information because she didn't want to bother me. She wouldn't share things because she thought it would hurt me. So she thought she was protecting. So we got around to talking about when I'm in My funks and I go into isolation. Protection is a way of control. I am controlling the way that people observe me. Much like Matthew there was saying about being seen, afraid to be seen a certain way. I don't want to be seen that way.

[Cub]

Which way?

[Bear]

Too much. He asked me how it felt, and I said, heavy. I feel like I'm the friend that is on everybody's suicide watch list. And I don't want to add to that narrative. I don't want to be the bummer. And so I'm afraid to show up when I'm sad because I'm already sad. And, Yeah, so I am. What I think I'm doing is protecting those relationships and those friendships by not sharing that part of me and isolating myself. And I learned that I'm doing exactly what my mother was doing. And that's not fair to the people who care about me in my life. And I didn't know that. Maybe they want to show up for me. Maybe they want to be there. Maybe they do want to observe me and truly see me. And I'm not giving them that chance. Because they'll leave.

[Cub]

The way you're looking at this book right now.

[Bear]

I can't.

[Cub]

You know, A longing through those glassy eyes.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Cub]

Can I tell you something about those of us that care about you and we don't care? I'm just kidding.

[Bear]

Yeah, yeah.

[Cub]

Shut up, dude. Sorry. You're sharing. This is not a time for jokes. I joke when I'm uncomfortable sometimes.

[Bear]

Sometimes.

[Cub]

Sometimes. Don't exaggerate it. So you're your mother's son? Yeah.

[Bear]

Yeah, man. I need a whole. I don't even need a software update. I need a firmware update. You know what I mean?

[Cub]

Honest to God, I don't.

[Bear]

Know.

[Cub]

And we know that. Jesus, that's a bear. It's not.