Why I Know the Right Thing — and Still Don’t Do It | #116

Summary

Secondhand Therapy #116 – Why I Know the Right Thing — and Still Don’t Do It (February 2, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this episode of Secondhand Therapy, co-hosts Michael Malone and Buddy (Louie Paoletti), two best friends who are not licensed therapists, dive into the perennial dilemma: "Why do we know the right thing to do, and still not do it?" Through laughter, genuine vulnerability, and their signature banter, they unpack issues around self-sabotage, motivation, permission, routines, and self-worth — all with direct references to recent therapy sessions and real moments from their lives. The discussion touches on food choices, gym routines, emotional habits, the challenges of building community, and lingering parental influences.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Emotional Memory and Triggers

• Coffee Shop Moment ([08:39]):
  • Michael shares a moment when a song at a café triggered unexpected emotion: “A song that I had not heard in a dog's age... it came on and I almost started crying in the coffee shop. And it's the dumbest thing.” – Michael Malone [08:39]
  • They reflect on how certain songs or smells can unexpectedly evoke powerful feelings.
• Buddy notes, “If that does happen, it's usually A song or a smell. Yeah, those are the ones that'll hit me the hardest.” – Buddy [11:08]

2. The “Knowing Better” Cycle: Self-Sabotage and Overwhelm

• Therapy Session Recap & Food Choices ([16:59]):

  • Michael struggles with self-control, even when the “right choice” is obvious:
    • “I don't know why I'm not choosing... the better choice. Even when I know it's the better choice. I have a really hard time with that lately.” – Michael Malone [16:59]
  • He uses a recent burger ("...I'm halfway through the burger being like, 'What are you doing?'") as an example.
  • Buddy recounts a similar moment at Jersey Mike’s where Michael ignores advice not to get a cookie ([18:02]).
  • Michael describes the all-or-nothing mentality — if he breaks a routine (misses the gym/journaling), he defaults to a “bad” choice (like eating fast food). Overwhelm from wanting to fix everything at once leads to cycles of demotivation.

• Routine, Checklists, and ADHD ([19:34]):

  • Michael’s therapist suggests focusing on "one big thing" (the gym) to reduce overwhelm, while still having a few minor daily tasks. They discuss the tension between doing too much (overwhelmed) vs. doing too little (underwhelmed/loss of motivation).

  • “We’re trying to find a balance where it's not overwhelming, but there's also enough to do that I'm not, like, underwhelmed and then under motivated to do anything.” – Michael Malone [21:04]

3. Experiencing vs. Completing Tasks

• “Doing” vs. “Experiencing” ([28:05]):
  • Michael recognizes he treats self-care as tasks to “get done” instead of experiences to be present for: “Even these things that I am doing in my routine, I'm not really doing them right. ...I'm not experiencing the morning walk. ...I'm focusing on getting the fuck out of there so I can mark it off my list.” – Michael Malone [29:13]
  • His therapist assigns homework: When doing these activities (gym, walks), pause to record notes about how he feels — focusing on the experience, not just completion ([31:19]).

4. Permission, Allowance, and Self-Value

• Recurring Struggles with Permission ([30:03]):

  • “The battles that I have with myself is like, okay, I'll allow you to go to the gym, but you gotta go in and get out... Like, I’m not experiencing the gym. ...I'm focusing on getting the fuck out of there so I can mark it off my list and be like, 'Okay, I did it.'” – Michael Malone [29:13]
  • They note recurring patterns: needing to give himself permission, but only in a transactional or restricted way.

• Buddy’s Challenge: Building Value from Within ([46:32]):

  • Michael ties his self-worth to external validation/status, especially in “onstage” persona:
    • “If I'm meeting somebody just out in the world, I don't feel like I have any [value]. That's what it is. There's no value. Because how do you know how productive I am or whatever? What have I done? I have no value?” – Michael Malone [46:32]
  • Buddy challenges this: “How do you know how productive and valuable the person you're talking to is?” – Buddy [46:38]
  • They examine the unhealthy link between productivity, value, and feeling ‘allowed’ to be present.

5. The Impact of Family Dynamics

• Parental Influence: The “Spoon/Knife” Analogy ([54:15]):

  • Buddy uses a powerful metaphor about Michael’s relationship with his mother:
    • “I think unconditional love is like, if you were to give somebody love, you would give it to them on a spoon. And I think what your mom did was made you lick it off a knife. You know, she gave it to you, but my God, did you have to be careful.” – Buddy [54:24]
  • This metaphor hits Michael hard, leading to a moment of reflection and emotion.

• Linking Self-Care & Self-Worth ([57:32]):

  • “I don't value myself because I'm not doing the things for myself that I need to be doing. Like lotioning my fucking legs.” – Michael Malone [57:32]
  • The difficulty with even minor self-care tasks echoes larger issues about self-worth and self-compassion.

6. Building Community and Overcoming Social Anxiety

• Onstage vs Offstage Persona ([41:32]):

  • Michael draws distinction between “Comedian Michael Malone” (confident, accepted) and “real life Michael Malone” (socially anxious, wallflower), and longs for a genuine, present community.

• Fear of Rejection and Real Connection ([43:54]):

  • Buddy suggests Michael’s real hesitation is a fear of rejection; that he might crave community, but is scared of another “licking the love off the knife” situation.

• The conversation circles back to how we attempt to offer value (“help and advice...or comedy stuff...even if we don’t ask, he'll give it to you” – Buddy [56:37]), instead of just offering authentic presence.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Familiar Struggles:

  • “Does this feel like new discoveries?” – Buddy [32:14]
  • “No, it doesn't feel like new discoveries. It feels like there's some actionable things behind it.” – Michael Malone [32:22]

• On Performing, Value, and Vulnerability:

  • "It's because that person is, for lack of a better term, like he's verified, you know what I mean? Like he's—people are vouching for him." – Michael Malone [45:30]
  • "If I'm meeting somebody just out in the world, I don't feel like I have any [value]. ...I have no value?" – Michael Malone [46:32]

• On Self-Sabotage and Overwhelm:

  • “I can't get out of that cycle. ...If I didn’t journal or if I didn’t do the morning walk or get up early enough, then it. I'm gonna have a burger. Or the other way around.” – Michael Malone [18:12]

• The “Spoon/Knife” Analogy ([54:24]):

  • “She gave it to you, but my God, did you have to be careful.” – Buddy [54:24]

• On Self-Care and Self-Worth:

  • “I told myself that. Lotion your legs. I went, nah. And I didn’t do it.” – Michael Malone [34:25]
  • “Why am I not doing these things for myself? I don't know.” – Michael Malone [34:32]

---

Important Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic / Moment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 08:39 | Michael describes being unexpectedly moved by a song in a coffee shop | | 16:59 | Michael shares his struggle: “why do I know the right thing and still not do it?” | | 19:34 | Discussing routine, overwhelm, and advice from Michael’s therapist | | 28:05 | Michael identifies he rushes through, rather than experiences, self-care activities | | 29:13 | Focus on permission and allowance: “I'll allow you to go to the gym, but you got to go in and get out.” | | 31:19 | Exercise: mindfully record the experience of activities, not just completion | | 41:32 | Michael’s struggle to build “real-world” community vs. confidence as “comedian Michael Malone” | | 46:32 | On self-worth, status, and the feeling of being “valuable” only when productive | | 54:24 | Buddy shares the “licking love off a knife” metaphor for Michael's experience of conditional affection | | 57:32 | Michael's admission: failing at self-care is directly linked to self-worth |

---

The Tone: Vulnerable, Witty, and Unfiltered

The episode is marked by signature back-and-forth, self-deprecating humor, and poignant honesty. Michael is openly exasperated with himself but keeps the tone approachable. Buddy mixes gentle challenge with supportive teasing, questioning Michael’s motives and offering new perspectives (sometimes via tough love, often via memorable analogies).

---

For New Listeners

This episode is a perfect illustration of Secondhand Therapy’s “funny, honest” approach: listeners get direct access to the inner battles of two best friends trying to be kinder to themselves, and to each other, all while knowing there are no magic fixes. The lesson is in the trying and in the talking.

---

Closing Reflection

Michael and Buddy leave us with the reminder that personal growth isn’t linear and that simply “knowing better” isn’t enough; compassion for our messy humanity is essential. Their closing question — did Michael make more progress in therapy or in the podcast? — encapsulates the show’s spirit: sometimes the best therapy is a real (secondhand) conversation with someone who gets it.

Transcript

[Michael Malone]

Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod for the best.

[Buddy]

Coffee in Las Vegas, visit Grouchy John's. Two locations, one in Green Valley, one in Centennial Hills. This episode of Secondhand Therapy is sponsored by BetterHelp. Yes, BetterHelp is an online resource for therapy.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. And I don't know who would have guessed it.

[Buddy]

Who would have guessed it? I don't know if you know about the show, but we're actually very pro therapy around here. Very pro therapy.

[Michael Malone]

That is the rumor that's going around.

[Buddy]

It's helped me a lot.

[Michael Malone]

Tell me more.

[Buddy]

It really has. You don't notice a change in me, Is that what you're saying?

[Michael Malone]

I do.

[Buddy]

Okay, then. Has it helped you?

[Michael Malone]

Absolutely. I'm in Better Help right now and my therapist is awesome.

[Buddy]

Your therapist sounds pretty great. I'm not gonna lie.

[Michael Malone]

He did. I'm so happy with him. And like, whenever we have to reschedule or something changes, it's so easy. It's like, literally, like clicks and it's done. I have to call mine Boo.

[Buddy]

It's terrible. But here's what I will say. I was always very much an in person therapy kind of set up for myself. Yeah, I'm on telehealth now.

[Michael Malone]

Way better. Oh, yeah, dude.

[Buddy]

Doing therapy like from your couch or like where you're in your space where you're comfortable? Oh, dude, I'm. I'm doing way better.

[Michael Malone]

That's one of the best parts of Better Help is that I get to do it from my cozy little corner chair.

[Buddy]

Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

Dim the lights. I light a candle. It is therapy time. Yeah.

[Buddy]

I don't ever want to go back to a therapy office again. So that's where we're at now. Since they are a new sponsor of ours, they were nice enough to give us a little discount code for you to use. So a little treat.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah, if.

[Buddy]

If you're hearing this, maybe you're in between insurance and you would like to start some therapy. Or maybe you've never been to therapy and you really want to try it out. Better Help's a really good start. They make it easy to find and pair up with somebody, and it's very affordable. So if you want to give it a shot, you can use the discount code they gave us. You can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy or just betterhelp.com and it'll ask you where you heard about it. Choose Secondhand therapy. They'll give you 10% off your first month. Try it out. Start your healing journey. Change my life. To change your life.

[Michael Malone]

I'm changed.

[Buddy]

He's changing. Changing. Hello, my little bear cubs. And welcome back to another episode of Secondhand Therapy. We need to remind you that we're not therapists. We are not experts. This is not a substitute for therapy. And this is not professional advice.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah, dog.

[Buddy]

In any way.

[Michael Malone]

Anyway, you know.

[Buddy]

God, what you're gonna hear Ads.

[Michael Malone]

There's a lot of ads.

[Buddy]

You know about these ads, man. There's a way out of it. There's always a way out.

[Michael Malone]

There's one final way.

[Buddy]

There's one final way. And that is patreon.com secondhand therapy pod.

[Michael Malone]

That's right, baby. Ad free episodes. You get access to the episodes early. You get access to a completely different podcast that's therapy related called the Other show and better podcast.

[Buddy]

Yeah, it is.

[Michael Malone]

What else do you get? Oh, you get live hangouts, you get merch discounts, all kinds of stuff.

[Buddy]

So there's, there's three, there's four tiers over there. Okay. The first tier, you're going to get your early ad free episodes. And if you sign up for that, we're going to send you the greatest sticker of all time. The second tier, you're going to get everything I just mentioned. And then you're going to get access to the other show and then you're going to get after the pod, bonus features. And then you're going to get asmr, you're going to get a bunch of bonus stuff and we're going to send you a signed print, the greatest print of all time. The third tier, you're going to get everything we just, I just talked about. You're also going to get access to live streams and then we're going to send you a T shirt, the greatest T shirt ever made. And then the fourth tier is if you're very, very rich.

[Michael Malone]

That's all. Nobody's ever signed up for the fourth tier.

[Buddy]

No, I just want.

[Michael Malone]

We just need one.

[Buddy]

Can I tell you my dream? Somehow we meet Drake and I'm gotta be Drake. It's got to be Drake or Kevin or somebody like stupid rich.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

And then you just go, hey, you're rich. And they go, yeah. Be like, can I buy one thing.

[Michael Malone]

On your credit card? Just one.

[Buddy]

And they go, okay. And then I pay, I buy that tier and I pay for the year.

[Michael Malone]

Up front.

[Buddy]

And they get the bill. They go, what the.

[Michael Malone]

I go, I asked, I asked for one thing.

[Buddy]

That's what I would do.

[Michael Malone]

I love it.

[Buddy]

Or if you're very rich and listen to this, go sign up for the biggest tier.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

If you do, you are papa bear. You understand that?

[Michael Malone]

Game changer. Yeah. What? Oh, we have merch. We have.

[Buddy]

Even my ego doesn't want somebody else.

[Michael Malone]

To be popping there. We have merch available.

[Buddy]

We do. If you're watching this, he is wearing the newest merch.

[Michael Malone]

It says dare. Real big.

[Buddy]

Yeah. Almost like.

[Michael Malone]

Almost.

[Buddy]

I've.

[Michael Malone]

Very similar. I've seen something like that.

[Buddy]

I don't even think it's similar. I. It. It strikes up a memory. I don't know what it is.

[Michael Malone]

I don't know either.

[Buddy]

It feels familiar. That's how cozy it is.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

It's so cozy. You think you've seen it before. You haven't.

[Michael Malone]

You've never seen this design. It says dare really big in red letters. In red letters. And then underneath it, it says, you to go to therapy.

[Buddy]

So it says, dare you to go to therapy. Secondhand therapy. Pod.com for all the merch. You guys.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

Off. What else?

[Michael Malone]

Wait, they can contact us?

[Buddy]

Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

You can contact us digitally.

[Buddy]

Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

You can send us little text messages or you can leave us voice notes and we might talk about it on air. With your permission. Why? Why? Kind of tired. Yeah, me too.

[Buddy]

A little fussy. All the contact stuff is below in the episode description. You.

[Michael Malone]

And we have a P.O. box. Yeah, you can send us if you. Our deal is you send us a Polaroid, we send you Polaroid.

[Buddy]

That's true. We got a couple Polaroids. We got a cow, we got a dog and a tree. Nice. Yeah. So I gotta take some more Polaroids.

[Michael Malone]

Well, there it is. Anyways, head on over to Patreon Ad free episodes, all that stuff he was talking about merch discounts. We have new merch out. Go check it out. You can send us stuff either digitally or the old fashioned way through our P.O. box. We love you so much. Enjoy the show.

[Buddy]

I just like you a lot. Okay. I think I love you if you listen to I love you if you listen to Bud. Okay, I think I love you. Listen. Hello, my little bear cubs.

[Michael Malone]

And welcome back secondhand therapy.

[Buddy]

And we know that.

[Michael Malone]

I wanted to mention something and I don't know. It doesn't lead into anything else.

[Buddy]

No. Then don't.

[Michael Malone]

I just thought I would mention it.

[Buddy]

Nah, pass.

[Michael Malone]

Okay, so my therapist and I were.

[Buddy]

No, no, keep talking about that.

[Michael Malone]

We had coffee this morning.

[Buddy]

You and your therapist?

[Michael Malone]

No. Oh, you and I.

[Buddy]

Is this the thing you wanted to mention? Yeah, you're doing it anyway.

[Michael Malone]

All right. Why are you against me mentioning it?

[Buddy]

I don't have a good reason.

[Michael Malone]

Hey. I don't have a reason to mention it.

[Buddy]

I know.

[Michael Malone]

It was just a thought. It was a weird thing that had happened. Why are you so okay?

[Buddy]

I just get there quicker.

[Michael Malone]

I. I would if you weren't so fussy. I need a fucking nap, bro.

[Buddy]

All right, go ahead. What happened? We had coff.

[Michael Malone]

This morning. We had coffee this morning. You were on a phone call, and they were playing music in the coffee shop. And a song that I had not heard in a dog's age. It came on and I almost started crying. In the coffee shop. And it's the dumbest thing.

[Buddy]

Weird Al.

[Michael Malone]

No, even. It's so cliche.

[Buddy]

Celine Dion. My heart will go on Close.

[Michael Malone]

Foreign. It's an old country song. Yeah.

[Buddy]

Alan Jackson. No, this Old Mercury. This Old Mercury.

[Michael Malone]

Less racist. Oh, it was the. I hope you dance.

[Buddy]

You a Mercury and cruise it up.

[Michael Malone]

And down the road, you know?

[Buddy]

Correct. I hope you dance. Yeah, I hope you did. Who sings that?

[Michael Malone]

I couldn't tell you.

[Buddy]

I want to say it's like Leanne rhymes or something.

[Michael Malone]

Probably my mother.

[Buddy]

Yeah, I'm familiar.

[Michael Malone]

Dedicated that to me at, like, at some point. Like some kind of graduation or something.

[Buddy]

Well, you didn't graduate, but.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. Some life event.

[Buddy]

She dedicated it to you? Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

And then she wrote it in a card. How do you like some of it?

[Buddy]

What do you mean she. Did she then sing it?

[Michael Malone]

No, no, no. Played it.

[Buddy]

And I dedicate this to my sunshine and then just put on I hope you dance.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah, I think.

[Buddy]

Okay.

[Michael Malone]

I think it was at my graduation party or it was some kind of life event.

[Buddy]

You didn't graduate.

[Michael Malone]

I did graduate. Why? This isn't the show. I need you to reel it in. Reel it in over there. Okay.

[Buddy]

Okay.

[Michael Malone]

Way too silly.

[Buddy]

All right. Billy Madison. He graduated.

[Michael Malone]

I graduated.

[Buddy]

Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

And anyways, one of the. And she wrote a piece of it in a card. Anyways. I haven't even thought about that song.

[Buddy]

Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

In forever. And then randomly, it's playing at the coffee shop this morning.

[Buddy]

That's a catchy song, dude.

[Michael Malone]

I found myself connecting with. I was like, what's happening right now?

[Buddy]

Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

Didn't like it.

[Buddy]

Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. Does that ever happen to you with, like, randomly, like that? I was in a good mood. We're hanging out, and then all of a sudden this thing just sneaks in and I'm like, hey, where'd you come from?

[Buddy]

If that does happen, it's usually A song or a smell. Yeah, those are the ones that'll hit me the hardest.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. Is there a song out there that you up besides the Luminaires?

[Buddy]

Yeah, the Lumineers. Man. Gail song. That'll get you.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. Like, if we're at a Kohl's right now, we're not at a Coles. This comes on, you gotta leave.

[Buddy]

I don't think there's any songs that I have to leave, but I think there are songs that I'll hear, and I'll be like, oh, wow. And I'll have, like, a reaction off the top. I can't think of one. Gail song by the Lumineers is one.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. That's not. When you're gonna, like, hear out at, like, a friend. Yeah. Yeah.

[Buddy]

Popular songs. I can't think of one, buddy. I watched the video to that the other day.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

Literally less than seven days ago.

[Michael Malone]

Really?

[Buddy]

Yeah. And I gotta tell you one thing.

[Michael Malone]

Market research. What are you doing?

[Buddy]

Well, here's what happened. Bruno Mars recently dropped a song.

[Michael Malone]

He sure did.

[Buddy]

And it's a banger.

[Michael Malone]

It is a banger.

[Buddy]

And I went to my girl, I was like, yo, did you hear the Bruno Mars song? And she goes, of course not. And I go, pull that up.

[Michael Malone]

Right?

[Buddy]

She goes to YouTube, pulls up the video. Hey, while we're here, put on 24 Karat Magic. Gotta hit that. Love it. And then in the next, you might see Thong song. We're here. Put it on. And I gotta tell you what year. What was that? Late 90s.

[Michael Malone]

That might be no. 1.

[Buddy]

Anyway, all the women in that video, just natural, real bodies. So refreshing to see. So refreshing to see, you know?

[Michael Malone]

Yeah, yeah.

[Buddy]

Nobody had a smart car up their ass. Do you know what I mean?

[Michael Malone]

A Nissan bbl. Yeah, yeah.

[Buddy]

So.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah, yeah. So that'll make you tear up, huh? When you're out in the bro.

[Buddy]

An all natural body. Oh, bodies unreal, you know?

[Michael Malone]

Body was unreal.

[Buddy]

People write us so often being like, can we get the bodies unreal merch? No one's gonna buy it.

[Michael Malone]

Nobody's gonna buy that anyway. Needs to be a bikini. It's his body's.

[Buddy]

Body's unreal. Oh, man. Do you think. I mean, here's the thing. Do you think we could bring back print on the ass of sweatpants?

[Michael Malone]

But for men, I don't know what you. What you'd want on there.

[Buddy]

Just burger or something.

[Michael Malone]

Burger.

[Buddy]

Hey, come on. Bad idea. Burger, burger butt. You don't like that? Thick, thick daddy Right across my ass in my Sean John's dude. I mean, I would never wear Sean John's bad guy. Let's be honest. They're Kirkland's. They're Kirkland Signatures.

[Michael Malone]

Signatures.

[Buddy]

They're gonna say thick daddy on the ass.

[Michael Malone]

Yes.

[Buddy]

You don't think that's a good product?

[Michael Malone]

That's not. Hey, I don't know, man.

[Buddy]

Okay?

[Michael Malone]

I don't wear sweatpants.

[Buddy]

Okay. What if it said, dare you to look away?

[Michael Malone]

Now. Now we're talking. Now we're in there. Now we're in the pocket.

[Buddy]

So, no, I can't think of any songs. No Gail Song. Maybe a David Bowie.

[Michael Malone]

A David Bowie? Yeah.

[Buddy]

Interesting David Bowie, but that seems more likely. That's like a I hope you dance type.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. I had to pick a song for my father's funeral.

[Buddy]

Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

And I didn't know the guy that well.

[Buddy]

Brick House.

[Michael Malone]

No, I picked the cheesiest. The.

[Buddy]

Okay.

[Michael Malone]

You are my hero.

[Buddy]

Oh, Enrique Iglesias.

[Michael Malone]

No, no. Barbara, I think.

[Buddy]

Well, don't say Barbara like she didn't have a last name.

[Michael Malone]

You say Barbara. Everybody knows Dog Streisand. Yeah, of course. Who else?

[Buddy]

Bush.

[Michael Malone]

Yes. Barbara Bush. Yeah. You are my hero.

[Buddy]

Who.

[Michael Malone]

Who did you ever know? You're my hero.

[Buddy]

That's Barbra Streisand.

[Michael Malone]

I think.

[Buddy]

You'Re everything I wish I could be, bro.

[Michael Malone]

The irony. Yeah.

[Buddy]

You lied to that man on his coffin bed.

[Michael Malone]

Didn't know the guy.

[Buddy]

You are the wind beneath my wings. Is it the same song? Wind beneath my Wings. That's Bette Midler.

[Michael Malone]

Is it Bet?

[Buddy]

And the only reason I know that. Seinfeld. What's going on in therapy? We gotta get on track.

[Michael Malone]

We gotta focus.

[Buddy]

You know, I didn't have to. I'm out every other week, so I got nothing. Oh, I do have an update.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

I officially have no health insurance. They have terminated me. I reapplied. They looked at it for a month and said, no, thank you.

[Michael Malone]

Donald Trump's America, baby.

[Buddy]

Yep. Someone every other week. Because I am officially paying out of pocket.

[Michael Malone]

I'm also paying out of pocket.

[Buddy]

Tight.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. Super fun. Yeah.

[Buddy]

Killing it.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

Sign up for Patreon, please.

[Michael Malone]

Please sign up.

[Buddy]

Podcast is going to go away.

[Michael Malone]

We're like, you guys, don't talk about therapy anymore. We can't afford it. We can't afford.

[Buddy]

All right, what's going on with you? You had therapy today.

[Michael Malone]

I did have therapy today. I was talking about what you and I were talking about this morning at the coffee shop. It's been, like, on my mind all day, and so, yeah, I brought it up. I said, hey. I didn't even know how to word it. I was like, I don't know why I'm not choosing. I don't want to say, like the right choice, but I'm not choosing the better choice even when I know it's the better choice. I have a really hard time with that lately.

[Buddy]

Better meaning setting yourself up for success?

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

Okay.

[Michael Malone]

Like, even on like the day to day stuff, like today I got a burger for lunch. And like, why.

[Buddy]

Even when I'm.

[Michael Malone]

Because I'm. I'm halfway through the burger being like, what are you doing? What the are you doing?

[Buddy]

Dude, Buddy, we pulled into Jersey. Mike's the day I'm gonna get a cookie. And I literally stop you. And I was like, don't do that.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

And you're like, I know, but I'm getting one anyway.

[Michael Malone]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Buddy]

I was like, this is the perfect moment, huh? Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. I am fighting myself like that, where I'm like, hey, don't. Don't do that. And I'm like, yeah, shut up. And it's just doing it. And I can't get out of that cycle. I can't get back into this. I don't want to say routine, but like, just these better choices. And so he was talking about maybe it's a. It's a. It's an overwhelmed thing because I want to make all these changes. I want to get back into my routine. And my routine is like getting up early and journaling and going for a walk and getting back into the gym and making food and do like all this stuff that I'm like, I want to be doing. It's. There's so much that it's overwhelming and that I. I'm. I'm in that kind of that all or nothing thinking, right? Where it's like, oh, well, if I'm not gonna go to the gym today or if I didn't journal or if I didn't do the morning walk or get up early enough, then it. I'm gonna have a burger or. Or the other way around. Like, yeah, you went out for lunch today. So what, are you gonna go to the gym? No. Come on, man. It's that trade off, isn't there? And I. This overwhelming feeling of trying to do everything. And I shared this story with him about. I think we talked about a little bit on here, but about my side of things about the solstice where you were like, which one did you get stuck with? And I was like, oh, I'M just gonna do all of them. And I told him that, and he was. He laughed and he was like. He's like, yeah, yeah, that's. That's the overwhelming sense. And he's like, a little bit of that is adhd. And he's like, but the majority of it is like, this. This overwhelming thing. And he goes. And so we started. I started talking about how what I liked about my routine before was like, I had, like, a checklist and I was able to keep track of everything. And we talked about focusing on just, like, one thing. Like, let's make one thing a priority. Let's strip it down to the basics, right? So, like, what is one thing you. You could be focusing on right now? And I was like, well, I think if I went to the gym more and focused on being at the gym, then other things would just naturally roll into place. Right. I'm not going to want to eat, like, because I'm at the gym and I'm doing better and making more of an effort that way. I'm not going to want to, like, sleep in. I'm not gonna, like, all these things kind of, like, carry over into, like, taking better care of myself physically. And so he's like, okay, what if we just focus on going to the gym? And we got into underwhelming, which is just like, okay, I did the gym. What else is there to do? And so we're trying to find a balance of, like, making something a priority, but also having a checklist of, like, little dailies to do and finding that balance where it's not overwhelming, but there's also enough to do that I'm not, like, underwhelmed and then under motivated to do anything.

[Buddy]

Have you tried just going to the gym?

[Michael Malone]

Hey, I had therapy two hours ago. No.

[Buddy]

And you're already like, well, that's underwhelming.

[Michael Malone]

What we're talking. Well, what I was talking about was just like, I. What I liked about my routine and is having the checklist and having things to do, like, throughout the day. Because if I don't, then it's just like, okay, I did the thing. Now what do we do? And so I need a little bit more than just one thing, but not like, one big thing.

[Buddy]

Okay.

[Michael Malone]

You know what I mean? Like, no, I can't have a bunch of big things because then it's. It's overwhelming. But if I have one big thing, a couple little things, that's fine.

[Buddy]

Okay.

[Michael Malone]

Does that make sense?

[Buddy]

Theoretically, yeah.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

But if you haven't even shown yourself you can do the one big thing. I don't. Yeah, why put a bunch of small stuff on it too? Because you're. You respond so strongly to failure. Like it's one of the things. I don't just go to the gym for two weeks. Are you taking maca yet?

[Michael Malone]

I. I am and it's pretty cool. Yeah, I'm only on day three.

[Buddy]

Yeah. Which one are you taking? You on the black. Yeah, I do the black too. I do the black and I do the tri blend.

[Michael Malone]

Oh, you do two.

[Buddy]

I do two.

[Michael Malone]

Okay.

[Buddy]

Technically three, because the blend is a blend of three. Okay, well, so if you don't know about maca, it is a root native to Peru. It grows in three colors. Black, red and yellow or yellow or yellow. Yellow or yellow. I take the black and I take the tri blend. My girl takes the red and you take the black.

[Michael Malone]

I do.

[Buddy]

Typically, yeah, men take the black, women take the red and then you intersperse the triple end. But it has a lot of benefits. I've been taking it daily for a little over a year. I have noticed a lot mood, skin, hair, energy, if you heard testosterone, you know, libido.

[Michael Malone]

I've had a lot of improvements. Yeah, all true.

[Buddy]

And we get. Well, I get our. I get my maca and I have been from a company called the Maca team. They are the biggest supplier of genuine maca from Peru. The biggest supplier in America. And they are nice enough to partner with. Partner with us and give a discount code. If you want to try out maca, you can go to the maca team.com secondhand therapy and you can use code bear cub for 10 off.

[Michael Malone]

Oh, fancy.

[Buddy]

So yeah, if you want to try some maca, try it out dudes. Try the black, ladies, try the red or try the try but at least go to the website, read about it, see if you might want to do it. It's not pharmaceutical, it's all natural. I've been taking it for over a year. I like it. You're three days in, you're less annoying. So we did it.

[Michael Malone]

We did it.

[Buddy]

The moca team.com secondhand therapy. Check it out.

[Michael Malone]

Hey, if you're tired of hearing these ads, which I'm sure you are, you should head on over to Patreon. There are ad free episodes and early access to episodes. You could be hearing this a week early along with accident along with access to a. An entirely different podcast. Some would say a better one called the other shit show.

[Buddy]

It is fun.

[Michael Malone]

It's non therapy related.

[Buddy]

It is fun.

[Michael Malone]

Super fun. Plus, you have. You have early access to my new podcast series, Happy Not Funny. And it's ad free episodes on that as well. Plus merch discounts. Also, fun live show things where we interact with the audience.

[Buddy]

Live streams is what he's trying to say.

[Michael Malone]

We are not going on tour. Yeah, that's true. What did I say?

[Buddy]

You said live shows.

[Michael Malone]

Well, same same. You know, it's like a live show. Nope, it's like a zoom.

[Buddy]

Okay.

[Michael Malone]

Anyways, you'll have access to us in a more intimate manner.

[Buddy]

Intimate.

[Michael Malone]

How about that?

[Buddy]

Intimate. There's no end.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah, like the candidate. Like the candies.

[Buddy]

Intimate.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

Also, if you sign up, you get a little treat.

[Michael Malone]

Oh, yeah.

[Buddy]

So check out the different tiers. One of the tiers is just if you're just here for secondhand therapy, you want no ads, we'll send you a dope little sticker. And I'm gonna be honest with you, a lot of time went into designing this sticker.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

Too much. You can argue. Too much dope sticker, though. So excited for that tier, we'll send you a sticker. The next tier, if you want the other podcast, if you want the bonus stuff from secondhand therapy, all the little extras, you get the sticker. And we're going to send you a signed print designed by yours truly. That took way too much time. Still, way too much time. We'll sign it, we'll send it out to you, and then we have the top tier with the live streams. If you want to hang out with us a couple times a month, you get the sticker, the print, and we'll send you a T shirt that we are not selling or getting anywhere else. So check out Patreon. If you sign up, you get some treats, and it's a good way to support the podcast.

[Michael Malone]

We'll see you over there.

[Buddy]

Thanks.

[Michael Malone]

The little things aren't. I think maybe I'm not describing little things on my routine are just like making my bed, flossing, things like that. Those are little things I'm talking about. Does that make better sense? Does that clear it up? That like. No.

[Buddy]

Because then you don't floss one night and you're like, well, didn't work.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

Talk about in therapy next week. And then you're just frozen till then.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Buddy]

What?

[Michael Malone]

I don't know. I don't. We get. We got caught up in the idea of what you and I have talked about, too, which you pointed out a few weeks ago that I had not noticed about myself, which is doing a task instead of experiencing it. Yeah. And so even these things that I am doing in my routine, I'm not really doing them right. So it's like, I go to the gym. Okay? I go to the gym, and I do it as fast as possible. I go. I mark off all the things I'm supposed to do at the gym, and I come home, I'm like, cool. I went to the gym. It's like, hey, do you remember how.

[Buddy]

Many times we've talked about. You get home from the gym, and you're like, out of breath?

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

And I'm like, how are you still out of breath? You drove home from the gym. Like, I did my workout. I'm like, are you trying to convince yourself that you're tired? Like, what is the. It's so interesting.

[Michael Malone]

I. It's a bargaining that's happening with myself. This is what we got into, which was like, it all goes back to permission, which is what we always talk about, which is like, okay. Like, the battles that I have with myself is like, okay, I'll allow you to go to the gym, but you got to go in and get out. So, like, hit your. Do your little things, and then we got to get home. You can go on a morning walk. Let's go and get back. Like, I'm not experiencing the morning walk. I'm not experiencing the gym. I'm not feeling how my body feels. I'm not doing anything. Like, I'm not focusing on any of that. I'm focusing on getting the out of there so I can mark it off my list and be like, like, okay, I did it.

[Buddy]

And then do what?

[Michael Malone]

Go back to work. Because productivity is my value.

[Buddy]

What are you working on?

[Michael Malone]

All kinds of shit, man. All right. Everything.

[Buddy]

Okay.

[Michael Malone]

But it's just that. That permission and allowance, right, that I'm always struggling with. So the exercise he gave me, no pun intended, was to. When I'm at the gym and I'm focusing on just, you know, the one big thing, like, the gym is the big thing, like, to actually go and allow myself to experience it. And then the homework I got was to even take a little notepad with me and write down just a couple sentences about my experience, either at the end of my workout or during my workout. Like, if I'm doing, you know, bench or whatever when I'm done, like, just write down, like, oh, I felt. I really felt that here, this or that. Like, focus on those moments and on my morning walks, do the same thing, like, on these little things that I'm doing. Like, when you Go for your morning walk, come back and write a couple things down. That way you're not just out and back as soon as you can. Like, you can be like, oh, I stopped and I saw this bird, or whatever the it is. Like, just a couple things.

[Buddy]

Did you ever start bird watching?

[Michael Malone]

I haven't started bird watching. I was gonna ask you where there's binoculars. I went first.

[Buddy]

Well, you moved them. They were dusty. And you put them on my stereo. And I said, no, I don't put them there. And then don't know where you put them. Look inward, you know.

[Michael Malone]

Anyways, so, yeah, my homework is to actually experience the things that I'm doing instead of just doing them, Which gotta be uncomfortable.

[Buddy]

I'm going to ask you a question. You're not going to like it.

[Michael Malone]

Okay.

[Buddy]

Does this feel like new discoveries?

[Michael Malone]

No, it doesn't feel like new discoveries. It feels like there's some actionable things behind it. Okay.

[Buddy]

This conversation just feels so familiar. And what's playing in my head is the. You had, like, a little mantra you stole from somebody. The nowhere to go, nothing to do, nothing to gather thing.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. I was doing that on my morning walks for a while and I got out of it.

[Buddy]

Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah, yeah. Thank you for reminding me. I forgot about that.

[Buddy]

Happy to help.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nowhere to be, nothing to do, nothing together.

[Buddy]

Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. That's really hard. That's hard for me.

[Buddy]

I know. We talk about it all the time.

[Michael Malone]

We're back, baby. Yeah.

[Buddy]

Interesting, huh? So you're picking one big thing, a handful of small things. When does that start? Tomorrow, actually. Tomorrow?

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Buddy]

How do you feel about it?

[Michael Malone]

I don't know. Excited and dreadful at the same time.

[Buddy]

Why dreadful?

[Michael Malone]

Part of why I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing is because I don't want to do it. Mm. Yeah. Even little things.

[Buddy]

This is my mom speaking. Welcome to life.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But even little things that I like. I got out of the shower today and I was like, I should lotion my legs.

[Buddy]

Mm.

[Michael Malone]

I told myself that. Lotion your legs. I went, nah. And I didn't do it.

[Buddy]

Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

What the. Why? Why am I not doing these things for myself? I don't know. I don't know either. It's.

[Buddy]

Well, yeah, you do.

[Michael Malone]

I don't.

[Buddy]

Why didn't.

[Michael Malone]

You didn't want to.

[Buddy]

There you go.

[Michael Malone]

That's not a reason.

[Buddy]

Okay.

[Michael Malone]

I need more.

[Buddy]

Why didn't you want to.

[Michael Malone]

Effort.

[Buddy]

Okay.

[Michael Malone]

I didn't want to take the 20 seconds and the energy it would take to Lotion my legs.

[Buddy]

Why didn't you have the effort?

[Michael Malone]

Yeah, yeah. We were talking about decisions, and like. Like today he was like, give me an example of one of his decisions. And I said, well, like today I was out on the bike and I. I was hungry, so I grabbed a burger.

[Buddy]

Do you need some water or something?

[Michael Malone]

No, it's just.

[Buddy]

Cause I'm on the bike.

[Michael Malone]

It's.

[Buddy]

It's crazy.

[Michael Malone]

That's your tism in the headphones, my guy.

[Buddy]

No, it's like you're like, doing these, like hard swallows, like every two or three words. I don't. Okay.

[Michael Malone]

I said at all. All right. Sorry, man.

[Buddy]

I was making sure you don't have, like, dry mouth or something.

[Michael Malone]

No.

[Buddy]

Okay. Decisions.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. I was out on the bike and I said, yeah, I want to get a burger. And so I got a burger.

[Buddy]

Even.

[Michael Malone]

Though I didn't want one. Right. And. And I. And we got into that and then we started talking about, like, how what has become a lot of the function of the bike is to go and get something, and usually it's food related. The majority of the time I'm riding my bike. I'm like, all right, it's about lunchtime, so I'll fire up the motorcycle and I will head on over to wherever the. And get food and then come back. And that way I get to ride my bike and whatever. Like the other day when I came back, I took the bike out and then came back and was like, you really. You didn't want to get Chipotle? And I was like, I don't want Chipotle. I want an excuse to ride my bike. And you were like, you don't need an excuse to ride your bike. So the other homework that I got was freeing up function from the bike and making it more about freedom so that I can remain joyful while I'm riding instead of making it part of. Again, like, function of something where it's like, yeah, this isn't about a task. You don't need an excuse. There is no, like, motivation behind it. You just need to just. Just write it and. Yeah, I don't really know how to do that yet.

[Buddy]

Well, here's my confusion. You getting the bike, it was supposed to be a pleasure.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

To ride around.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

So on a different thought, why is. Why is the bike something you constantly need to be doing?

[Michael Malone]

I'm finding excuses to write it because I. I like writing it, so. But what's happening is that I'm attaching too much function to it, So it's not That I can't do anything with function on it. It's just that that can't be the majority of it. Yeah. Like, going back to that idea of like. Yeah. You don't need an excuse to write it. You can just ride it.

[Buddy]

And what if you aren't allowed to do it on your bike?

[Michael Malone]

What do you mean?

[Buddy]

Like, the bike is only for pleasure. Like, if you're like, I'm gonna get some food, you have to take your car.

[Michael Malone]

Oh, God, I hate that.

[Buddy]

Look at that. We broke a habit.

[Michael Malone]

But that is a. But that doesn't help the situation of function if I'm. I'm talking about using it solely for function right now. Yeah. And like.

[Buddy]

Yeah. So I'm saying.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

If you have it in your head, like, you're giving yourself a function, you have to take the car.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

And then you'll find out if you actually need to do that thing.

[Michael Malone]

I see what you're saying. I thought you meant just like, if you were like, hey, do you want to grab coffee? And I was like, yeah. I'm like, I'm gonna take the bike. And you're like, no, take the car. Like, no, I don't. Done.

[Buddy]

Yeah, that's normal.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

But if you're like, ah, I'm gonna get a burger. And you're like, I gotta take the car. And you're like, yeah, don't want a burger that bad anymore.

[Michael Malone]

I like that. I like that rule.

[Buddy]

Thanks. Yeah, I'll bill your insurance. Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. So a lot of permission stuff, dealing with all that stuff.

[Buddy]

Yeah. Permission's been a topic view for a while. What progress do you see yourself make having had made since you started talking about permissions in 2010?

[Michael Malone]

It fluctuates.

[Buddy]

Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Buddy]

Do you have examples of something? It's gotta be something.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah, I mean, I've. I've been working on allowance lately. Right. Like, when the weather was nicer, it was easier to, like, hike and things like that. Or like, I've been trying to on the weekends be like, all right, we're not gonna work on the weekends. We're just gonna, like, enjoy. But then I run into what else we were talking about, which is, like, building community. And I was asking him, I was like, how do you do that? I was like, how? Like, you're talking about the difference between, for lack of a better description, like, onstage Michael and offstage Michael. Mm. It's very easy for onstage Michael to do a lot of social things. I've.

[Buddy]

Is on stage Michael different than Nice, Michael.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. On stage, Mike was like, the perform, like comedian Michael Malone.

[Buddy]

Buddy.

[Michael Malone]

I. You know, I've sat at a lot of tables as comedian Michael Malone. I've talked to a lot of different people. I can control a theater full of people. As comedian Michael Malone. I love being in the green room and entertaining. And, like, I. There's no issues with comedian Michael Malone, but, like, real life Michael Malone. I don't know how to really function in, like, social settings. I'm a wallflower. And this. These ideas that I have of being like, I want to go out. I want to do this. I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm a wallflower. And, like, how do I. How do I build community?

[Buddy]

You tell yourself you're a wallflower.

[Michael Malone]

I just am. I, like. I don't know. I. I freeze up. I don't know what to say. I just. I end up just, like, hanging out and watching all night, you know? And it's like, that's not. Who's that guy? If this were a green room, I'd be chopping it up. Yeah. If this were anywhere, like, dude, I've. I can talk to anybody.

[Buddy]

Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

I've made a profession out of talking. It's like, for some reason, if I'm at a social setting, I ain't talking to nobody.

[Buddy]

Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

And I envy friends of mine that can do that and have built a life making friends instantly or, like, talking to people and, like, building communities. And I'm like, how do you even start? That's when I asked my therapist. I go, how do I even start? Like, what? Besides going to, like, mixers or something? Like, how. What the fuck does that even look like? This life that I want, this community that I crave, I don't even know how to approach it. Yeah.

[Buddy]

I don't believe you.

[Michael Malone]

Okay. I don't.

[Buddy]

I think you know exactly how to approach it. I think you're terrified of being rejected. Are you tired of staring at your phone? Are you addicted to it?

[Michael Malone]

Oh, my God.

[Buddy]

Are you?

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. Well, yeah, like everybody else. Sure.

[Buddy]

Okay. All right. Well, I got a new. Let me tell these people about my new phone, okay?

[Michael Malone]

Okay.

[Buddy]

It's called the light phone.

[Michael Malone]

Oh, I've heard about that.

[Buddy]

The light. Yeah, you seem to use it. The light Phone. Also known, some people call it a dumb phone.

[Michael Malone]

Mmm.

[Buddy]

Anyway, it's a smartphone. It has Internet, but the Internet will only get you navigation. There is no email, there is no social media, nothing like that. It does calls, it does texts. It does navigation. It has A calendar and a flashlight.

[Michael Malone]

It's like having a BlackBerry again.

[Buddy]

Kinda.

[Michael Malone]

Oh yeah, I love that.

[Buddy]

It has a pretty cool camera too.

[Michael Malone]

I'm not gonna lie.

[Buddy]

Yeah, it's got a dope camera on it. Got a camera. Yeah. Anyway, they were nice enough, they sent us a little discount code if anybody wants to get on the light phone train with us. So there's a link in the episode description for the light phone. And then if you want to pre order the light phone. Three, use code. Secondhand therapy, all lowercase. Try out a light phone. It's pretty great.

[Michael Malone]

Stop your doom scrolling.

[Buddy]

Stop your doom scrolling. Be more present in life. Link down below. Promo code. Secondhand therapy, all lowercase. Check out a light phone. Join us in the present world.

[Michael Malone]

You know what? He. That's interesting because we didn't get there, but he asked me what the difference was. He's like, well, why, why is he. Why is it easier for comedian Michael Malone to do those things? And I was like, well, it's because that person is, for lack of a better term, like he's verified. You know what I mean? Like he's. People are vouching for him. Like, he's good to go. He's already in the green room. He. People know him. You know what I mean? Like, if I'm sitting down with somebody or whatever as comedian Michael Malone, then like you already. I already have status. If I'm meeting somebody just out in the world, I don't feel like I have any. That's what it is. There's no value. Because how do you know how productive I am or whatever? What have I done? I have no value?

[Buddy]

How do you know how productive and valuable the person you're talking to is?

[Michael Malone]

Well, in the. You mean in. In what world?

[Buddy]

The real world?

[Michael Malone]

I don't. And it doesn't matter. So why would it matter to them? I don't know.

[Buddy]

Sure you do.

[Michael Malone]

I really don't. I don't know. Why. Why would it matter to them? Yeah, Yeah. I never think about that when I'm meeting somebody at like a party or something. I'm never like, what has this person done with their life? So why would they be thinking that about me?

[Buddy]

I have a theory, if you're interested. Sure, I think you do think that a little bit. And. I mean, it's. That's what being in entertainment is.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

You're most interested in people who are bigger than you, more successful than you, have more connections than you, because it's all a performance. And that's what the value is in entertainment or in a green room. Yeah, of course. Everybody likes you in the green room. You're the headliner. How many people are asking, hey, can you give me this book or can you.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah, yeah.

[Buddy]

See, I think by natural order, you probably think that as well, like, because life is a quid pro quo a lot of the time. Yeah. So I think you do think that a little bit, so it makes perfect sense why you would think they're thinking that of you as well.

[Michael Malone]

I'm trying to see if that's true or not. I'm sure there's some of it mixed in there, but that's never. That's not. Like. I was trying to think of, like, some of the most fun and interesting conversations I've ever had. I don't know if. Well, they're still people of status. I was gonna say, like, during the pandemic, I was, like, doing, like, these zoom interview things with people from all over the world and. But there's still status there. But it wasn't the same as, like, inner. I don't know, because some of these people were just like. I mean, when High One was a high priestess, that was a super interesting conversation, and there was nothing, nothing to gain for me with that conversation or anything like that.

[Buddy]

Well, you were. It was a podcast, right?

[Michael Malone]

Yeah, I guess in that regard. I guess what I was taking it as is, like, what you were trying to say, what you're. Let me. Okay. Are you saying that only being interested in conversations with people that could help me in some way?

[Buddy]

I think that comedian Michael Malone. I think he's. He was in that world for so long.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

That I think it's unavoidable that that has left a print on regular Michael Malone.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I'm sure that's in there a little bit, man. I just. I'd like a good story. Like, I'm thinking about, like, the guy from my writing class that I was telling you about. I'm thinking about the Russian guy that we met to, like, buy the used car and stuff like that. Like, those are interesting.

[Buddy]

That is so boring.

[Michael Malone]

Those are interesting interactions. And with, like, I would. I want to know more about that guy.

[Buddy]

What do you know about him?

[Michael Malone]

Very little.

[Buddy]

Right. You want to know more based on what.

[Michael Malone]

His stature, attitude, and.

[Buddy]

Demeanor.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. I'm like, what is your life, bro? What is this? What's going on? Huh?

[Buddy]

All right. It's so hard for me to think of, like, a stranger that I know very little about, that I'm Curious about. Based on, like, not knowing anything. Like, oh, he was like, his stature. I'm like, I've seen a lot of like, dude. I'm like, God damn. Are you like six, nine? I'm not like, what is it? What was your childhood like? What the. Yeah, I mean.

[Michael Malone]

Six, five. Russian dude selling us his wife's car. Like, very abruptly, I'm like, all right, what's going on? What are you doing here? What's going on? Where are you from? What's. What's going on here? I want to know.

[Buddy]

And what if it's. I'm from Vegas, I'm selling my wife's car. Right, Right.

[Michael Malone]

What's going on here?

[Buddy]

Yeah. You want it to be interesting.

[Michael Malone]

I think it is. Even if it's. Even if it's basic, it's still interesting.

[Buddy]

Okay.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Buddy]

That's so interesting. So many times when people are like, yapping. Sometimes you'll be like, we don't shut the. And then here you're like, that's interesting. I'm like, you hate people. What?

[Michael Malone]

It. It does depend on the setting. Yeah.

[Buddy]

Okay.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

That's my point.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

When it serves you, it's a little more. That's what I think. I know you don't like that because you think I'm seeing you as a piece of.

[Michael Malone]

But that's not. No, I'm. I'm really trying to see, like, what stories stick out to me and, like, what conversations I enjoy and like. Yeah. I don't know.

[Buddy]

So you never answered. Why. Why? If you don't care what value they have, why do they care what value you have?

[Michael Malone]

I don't know.

[Buddy]

I have another theory.

[Michael Malone]

Okay.

[Buddy]

If you're interested.

[Michael Malone]

Sure.

[Buddy]

Well.

[Michael Malone]

Huh.

[Buddy]

It's just a theory.

[Michael Malone]

Okay.

[Buddy]

But I mean, we've talked about it on here before. You're very close with your mom.

[Michael Malone]

We knew each other. Yeah.

[Buddy]

Yeah.

[Michael Malone]

We got along well.

[Buddy]

You know, you like to lie to all of us in yourself that your. Your mom just gave you so much unconditional love and she was a saint.

[Michael Malone]

Never forget.

[Buddy]

Yeah. And I think, to put it in a bit, I know you love a metaphor.

[Michael Malone]

I love a metaphor.

[Buddy]

I think unconditional love is like, if you were to give somebody love, you would give it to them on a spoon. And I think what your mom did was made you lick it off a knife. You know, she gave it to you, but my God, did you have to be careful.

[Michael Malone]

She was a saint.

[Buddy]

And you know that about her. A lovely woman. And I know she did her Best. But yeah, I think you had to be real careful on how to get that love. And I think now that you're trying to build community, you think you're gonna. You're walking up to somebody with a spoon and you're like, God, how big is this knife? Oh, God. Is it. How bad is it gonna cut me? That's my theory. What do you think of that theory? You have thoughts on that theory?

[Michael Malone]

Oh, God, yeah.

[Buddy]

Keep rubbing your eye there. It's a good analogy though, right?

[Michael Malone]

It's pretty good.

[Buddy]

Thank. Yep, I can see it. You up a little bit?

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

What's up?

[Michael Malone]

I'm thinking about relationships in my life, friendships. And. I'm always offering. I'm offering everything but myself. First, when I was a kid, it was toys and this and that. I got the. I got a Nintendo come over. There's always things. And I feel like if I'm honest with myself now, it's. It's. It's like help and advice on, like, video stuff or comedy stuff or whatever. The.

[Buddy]

It's like, even if we don't ask, he'll give it to you.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Buddy]

Why do you think that is?

[Michael Malone]

I don't know why I don't. I don't know why I don't value myself more.

[Buddy]

And we're back.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

I'll bill your insurance. Don't worry. Why don't you value yourself more, Michael? This is the first time we're doing. This is a mind blowing revelation.

[Michael Malone]

I don't value myself because I'm not doing the things for myself that I need to be doing. Like lotioning my fucking legs.

[Buddy]

Yeah. I mean, if you don't love yourself enough to lotion your legs.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

Why would anybody else give a. About you?

[Michael Malone]

Yeah. Oh.

[Buddy]

Can you. I need to get a copy of your insurance card. Is that. Can you leave it up front? Marissa, she'll get it. She'll get it from you.

[Michael Malone]

I gotta go lotion my legs.

[Buddy]

We gotta. We gotta build your insurance for this session.

[Michael Malone]

Yeah.

[Buddy]

I need you to be honest with me. And here's the. This is an honest curiosity, okay? And I understand how egotistical it's going to sound, but it is coming from a place of curiosity.

[Michael Malone]

Okay.

[Buddy]

Did you make more progress in therapy today or during this recording? And we know that. Jesus, that's a bear. It's not.