Why We Struggle With Compliments, FOMO, and Accountability | #107

Summary

Secondhand Therapy | PonyBear Studios

Episode #107: Why We Struggle With Compliments, FOMO, and Accountability

Release Date: November 10, 2025
Hosts: Louie Paoletti & Michael Malone

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Overview

This episode of Secondhand Therapy delves into why people often struggle with accepting compliments, how FOMO (fear of missing out) shapes decisions, and the role of accountability in relationships and personal growth. Louie and Michael approach these complex topics with their trademark honesty and humor, sharing vulnerable stories from their lives and recent therapy sessions. The discussion includes deep dives into cynicism, self-worth, fear of abandonment, and the challenge of genuine connection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Compliment Block": Why It's Hard to Accept Praise

Timestamps: [08:13] – [19:49]

• Manipulation or Sincerity?
  Louie shares a text from his father complimenting the podcast, but he feels skeptical about its genuineness, suspecting hidden motives.
  • "It felt manipulative... It’s not meaningful to me." — Louie, [12:02]
• Cynicism as Self-Protection:
  Michael points out Louie’s pattern of dismissing compliments, questioning if it's about not believing the praise or subconsciously seeking repeated validation.
  • "Is it that I don’t believe you or is there something deeper... almost being manipulative and just getting you to tell me over and over again?" — Louie, [17:42]
• The Expectation Baseline:
  Both confess that when they achieve something remarkable, they tend to minimize it, feeling it’s only what was expected.
  • "Whatever I’m doing... that's my expectation already. So, you did a good job—I’m like, was I supposed to do something shitty?" — Louie, [15:27]

2. The Belief Barrier & Faith

Timestamps: [13:16] – [21:28]

• Choosing Cynicism Over Vulnerability:
  Louie admits he prefers skepticism to avoid feeling let down.
  • "I haven’t really thought about it. And I gotta tell you, I don’t think I’m interested." — Louie, [14:32]
• Receiving Compliments:
  Michael says he’s polite when complimented but only truly accepts it if he already believes it himself.
  • "If I make something I think is really dope and somebody goes, hey, that's dope, I'm like, thank you... But if I make something and don't like it, I can't accept their praise." — Michael, [19:08]

3. FOMO, Self-Worth, and the "One Shot" Mentality

Timestamps: [32:35] – [39:03]

• What Drives FOMO?
  Michael’s fear of missing out is tightly bound to a sense that every opportunity is fleeting.
  • "There's only one shot at all this... I'm never going to be this young as I am right now." — Michael, [33:03]
• Always Missing Something:
  Louie offers a counterpoint, reminding that no matter the choice, we’re always missing everything else.
  • "We are missing literally everything besides this moment. All we have is right now and what's happening here." — Louie, [35:06]
• Inclusion and Self-Doubt:
  Using a club metaphor, Michael describes feeling like he’s only included by accident, and that he'll be found out.
  • "It feels like I used a fake ID to get in the club... better dance all night because I don’t know if I’ll ever be allowed in this club again." — Michael, [44:08]
  • If not re-invited, he internalizes that as proof he was never truly wanted.
    • "Means they saw it. They saw your piece of shit... then lonely." — Michael, [45:00–45:18]

4. Fear of Abandonment & the Need for Context

Timestamps: [47:02] – [50:15]

• The Boogeyman of Loneliness:
  Michael fears that if people discover his flaws, he’ll be abandoned and left forever alone.
  • "If they don’t ever invite you again... then lonely. Then forever lonely." — [45:05–45:50]
• Intent vs. Impact:
  Michael places high value on the intent behind actions, believing context changes his perception of events even if it doesn't change the other person’s feelings.
  • "For me it does... context changes the impact for me." — Michael, [49:43]

5. Accountability—Distinguishing Blame from Responsibility

Timestamps: [50:44] – [59:03]

• Accountability as Growth:
  Louie reflects on how therapy has taught him that being accountable often matters more than intent.
  • "You know what I have learned matters a lot? Accountability." — Louie, [50:44]
• Struggling to Separate Fault:
  Michael reveals he still struggles to see accountability apart from blame, due to upbringing and untraditional adulthood routines.
  • "I can't seem to separate it with fault." — Michael, [51:03]
  • "I never had to be accountable growing up... touring for so long... all I really had to do was show up." — Michael, [53:08–54:48]
  • Louie questions these assertions, remaining skeptical and pushing Michael to own what he might be ignoring.
    • "I think there are countless opportunities even in that life for accountability." — Louie, [57:31]

6. Complimenting Others: The Discomfort of Being Seen as Tender

Timestamps: [60:51] – [66:13]

• Giving Compliments is Also Hard:
  Louie shares how uncomfortable it is for him to give others sincere praise, especially publicly, for fear of being seen as "tender" or weak.
  • "As uncomfortable it is for me to receive a compliment... equally as uncomfortable to give it, even though I really want to." — Louie, [60:53]
  • "I have an issue or a very strong discomfort in being seen as tender." — Louie, [61:20]
  • Michael’s guess is that Louie won’t say it unless it feels totally authentic, which Louie confirms, but adds it’s about appearing "soft".
• Origins of the Fear:
  Louie relates it back to childhood experiences of fear and insecurity, suspecting that being emotionally open would make him a target.
  • "Growing up a fat kid... being tender—it's like putting a target on me would make sense with that information." — Louie, [67:12]

7. Self-Awareness, Acceptance, and the Work-in-Progress

Timestamps: [67:14] – [69:16]

• Always Changing:
  Both reflect on how self-perceptions, the meaning of love, and personal definitions change over time, especially as they unlearn childhood patterns and challenge old beliefs.
  • "Isn't [love] constantly changing as you change? Because love is different to everybody." — Louie, [41:12]
  • Michael admits to working on his beliefs about worthiness and inclusion, knowing it’s a lifelong journey amid ongoing therapy and friendship.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Compliments:
  • "If I don’t believe it, I don’t believe it. Maybe belief is a choice. I’ve never looked at it that way." — Louie, [15:05]
  • "Are you good at taking compliments?" / "I have to believe it." — Michael, [19:03]
• On Being "Found Out":
  • "It feels like I tricked them... used a fake ID to get into the club. I better dance all night because I don’t know if I’ll ever be allowed in this club again." — Michael, [44:08]
• On FOMO:
  • "We are missing literally everything besides this moment... what are we worried about? All we have is right now and what's happening." — Louie, [35:06]
• On Accountability:
  • "Would you ever say that was my fault? All the context you give is so people know it wasn’t your fault." — Louie, [51:14]
• On Tenderness:
  • "I have an issue or very strong discomfort in being seen as tender." — Louie, [61:20]
  • "What’s the fear? Being seen as weak?" — Michael, [65:50]

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Key Segment Timestamps

• [08:13] — The struggle to accept compliments & Louie's dad's text
• [13:16] — Cynicism about praise and belief as a choice
• [17:42] — Questioning the manipulation behind needing affirmation
• [32:35] — Introducing FOMO via a family conversation
• [33:03] — Michael on what drives his FOMO
• [35:06] — Louie reframes the idea of "missing out"
• [44:08] — Michael’s metaphor of “the club” and feeling like an imposter
• [45:00] — The “forever lonely” anxiety loop
• [50:44] — Louie: Accountability matters more than intent
• [51:03] — Michael: Accountability vs. blame; why it’s confusing
• [53:08] — Michael on why his lifestyle made accountability rare
• [60:51] — Louie finds giving compliments as hard as receiving them
• [61:20] — The fear of appearing emotionally soft/tender
• [67:14] — Love, self-worth, and the ongoing quest for growth

---

Final Thoughts

This episode brings a raw, often funny, sometimes painful honesty to topics many avoid—receiving/giving validation, the fear of being left out or discovered as a fraud, and the ongoing adult struggle with owning mistakes. Through their distinctive back-and-forth, Louie and Michael remind listeners that personal growth is messy, self-doubt is universal, and it's okay to not have all the answers.

This summary preserves their conversational tone, notable moments, and vulnerability—serving as both a thorough recap and an invitation to tune in for the full, deeply human experience.

Transcript

[A]

Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod hello, my little bear cubs.

[B]

We have a new sponsor. And that new sponsor is BetterHelp. Yes, BetterHelp is an online resource for therapy.

[A]

Yeah. And I don't know who would have guessed it.

[B]

Who would have guessed it? I don't know if you know about the show, but we're actually very pro therapy around here. Very pro therapy.

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That is the rumor that's going around.

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It's helped me a lot.

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Tell me more.

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It really has. You don't notice a change in me, Is that what you're saying?

[A]

I do.

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Okay, then. Has it helped you?

[A]

Absolutely. I'm in Better Help right now and my therapist is awesome.

[B]

Your therapist sounds pretty great. I'm not gonna lie.

[A]

He did. I'm am so happy with him. And like whenever we have to reschedule or something changes, it's so easy. It's like literally like two clicks and it's done. I have to call mine Boo.

[B]

It's terrible. But here's what I will say. I was always very much an in person therapy kind of setup for myself. Yeah, I'm on telehealth now. Way better.

[A]

Oh, yeah, dude.

[B]

Doing therapy like from your couch or like where you're in your space where you're comfortable? Oh, dude, I'm. I'm doing way better.

[A]

That's one of the best parts of Better Help is that I get to do it from my cozy little corner chair. Yeah. Dim the lights. I light a candle. It is therapy time. Yeah.

[B]

I don't ever want to go back to a therapy office again. So that's where we're at now. Since they are a new sponsor of ours, they were nice enough to give us a little discount code for you to use. So a little treat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If. If you're hearing this, maybe you're in between insurance and you would like to start some therapy. Or maybe you've never been to therapy and you really want to try it out. Better Help's a really good start. They make it easy to find and pair up with somebody and it's very affordable. So if you want to give it a shot, you can use the discount code they gave us. You can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy or just betterhelp.com and it'll ask you where you heard about it. Choose Secondhand Therapy. They'll give you 10 off your first month. Try it out. Start your healing journey. Change my life to Change your life.

[A]

I'm changed.

[B]

He's changing. Changing.

[A]

Welcome back to Second Hand Therapy. Want to remind you that we are not therapists. We're not therapists. Therapists. We are not professionals in any way. This is not experts. This isn't professional advice.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

And it's not a substitute for therapy, for actual therapy.

[B]

You got it. There it is. It's not professional advice in any way.

[A]

I nailed it, dude. First try. Look at that.

[B]

Smooth.

[A]

Congratulations to me.

[B]

Smooth. What are you sick?

[A]

Congrat. It's a sinus infection. You.

[B]

You're mad at me because you can't sleep with a window open.

[A]

I'm mad at. I don't know who I'm mad at. Probably my father.

[B]

Yeah, I was gonna. I was gonna say the other one, but Mama. I think it might be mama.

[A]

You always think it's mama.

[B]

I am just waiting one day for you to come out of therapy and be like, did you know I'm angry with my mother?

[A]

That'll never happen. She's a saint. Correct. Anyways, welcome to the show. If you. Hey, you're gonna hear some. You're gonna hear some commercials, you're going.

[B]

To hear some ads.

[A]

So guess what? You can avoid that by going over to Patreon.

[B]

Patreon.

[A]

And you can support the show.

[B]

You can patreon.com secondhand therapy pod. There are three tiers available. We are now doing giveaways.

[A]

Ooh.

[B]

And they are popular.

[A]

Yeah, I see you.

[B]

Did you see you see me doing it?

[A]

You see Ryan?

[B]

He put in the group chat on Patreon. He wore his Patreon T shirt to work. No, don't do that. I don't know where he works. I'm just around.

[A]

What is the. I haven't even seen the. What is the Patreon?

[B]

You have seen it. You sure have. Okay, well, so if you sign up, it's really cool.

[A]

I've seen it and I love it.

[B]

It is cool. Three tiers. First tier, you get ad free episodes of Secondhand Therapy and Michael's solo podcast, Happy Not Funny.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if you sign up for that, we're going to send you a sticker. And it is the greatest sticker of all time.

[A]

That's what they say.

[B]

That's what they say. That's a long time to design and it's worth it. Second tier, you get that. Also, our non therapy podcast, the other show, all the bonus features for Secondhand. We're going to send you the sticker and a signed print. Also, somebody say the greatest Print of all time. Now we might even write a little note on the back. I don't know.

[A]

Little love notes.

[B]

I don't know. I don't know. Third tier, you get to. We do a couple live streams a month. You can hang out with us. You sign up for that tier, we're gonna also send you a T shirt.

[A]

T shirt that I have definitely seen and that I love and. And I can't wait for you to see it. Also.

[B]

I can't. I. I wish you had access to your phone because you could scroll through our texts and there's literally me sending you screenshots of it and say, how do you feel about this for the Patreon tea? And you say, dope. Love it.

[A]

Love it.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Because I definitely saw it.

[B]

What I'm dealing with.

[A]

I definitely saw it.

[B]

That's what I'm dealing with.

[A]

Really Cool. Yep.

[B]

I run things by him, and then he goes, well, you never told me. And then I have to kill us both. So go check out patreon. Patreon.com secondhand therapy pod. We also have merch available secondhand therapypod.com. tie dye. Hoodies are out. Mood cruise. We got to get some mood cruise. Dude.

[A]

Buddy.

[B]

Are you going to do happy, sad, or anxiety?

[A]

Of course happy. That's what I am, man.

[B]

You could get one that's honest or you could lie.

[A]

I don't have anxiety, so I'd have to get happy.

[B]

Yep. I'm going to get happy, too.

[A]

Good. Two happy boys.

[B]

Secondhand therapy pod dot com. Check out the merch.

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Also, you can write us. You can write us letters. You can send us physical mail or.

[B]

Actually, yes, she's on Patreon, so I sent her a dm and I was like, siobhan sent us a poetry book. Oh, got that.

[A]

I read some of that. And pretty great.

[B]

Yeah, I'm excited.

[A]

I forget the poem that I read, the title of it.

[B]

Shocking. Hey, real quick. Shocking. I can't believe you can go. Someone sent us a book. What do you mean?

[A]

Someone said somebody's supposed to send us some art.

[B]

That'd be great. I love art.

[A]

Yeah. Anyways, you can send us physical mail or digital mail. You can leave us voice notes or text messages. And sometimes we talk about them on the air. If you don't believe us, listen to the last episode. That's what the we did.

[B]

Here's what I'm gonna say. If you're gonna send us something to the PO Box, make sure it fits in a PO Box, because I don't want to Wait in that line to pick it up. Okay.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

I will wait in the line.

[A]

Also, send us. Whatever. Donkeys and cows.

[B]

Send us pictures of your donkeys and cows. I do want pictures of donkeys and cows.

[A]

Dumbest joke. All right.

[B]

It's not a joke. I know, I know you think it sounds like boobs and butts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Donkeys and cows. Puppies. Water puppies. Send us pictures. Seriously, if you have donkeys and cows, send us some Polaroids and email them. I love animals.

[A]

We love you. Let's get into this. Go to Patreon. That's what we're trying to tell you to do. Go there. Like, nipples.

[B]

What you say? What did you say?

[A]

I didn't say that.

[B]

Donkeys and cows. P.O. box 230595, Las Vegas, Nevada, 89105. Donkeys and cows. Thank you. Hello, my little bear cubs.

[A]

And welcome back secondhand therapy.

[B]

And we know that. I don't think I told you, but I got a text from my papa. Oh, now. Didn't like it.

[A]

Oh, I. I double don't know this.

[B]

I know I didn't tell you. This is actually true. You did not know this.

[A]

I did not know this.

[B]

Here's the thing, okay? Felt manipulative. Want to know what the text said?

[A]

I'm dying.

[B]

I don't have my phone, so I paraphrase it.

[A]

I'm going to jump out this window. I swear to God.

[B]

He never answers my prayers. Okay. Something along the lines of.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Hey, bud. Just wanted to let you know I was on the road and somebody told me about your podcast. I listened. I listened to an episode. What you and Michael are doing is great. I think you're really helping people. Very proud of you. Love you. And then in parentheses, now you have something new to talk about on the podcast. Lol. Just kidding. And that was the text message.

[A]

That's not manipulative at all. Am I missing? What's the. This is a great text. I feel like, is this not a great text?

[B]

I didn't like it. Why? Hey, somebody told you about my podcast?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, how'd they know it was mine? Or somebody just said, hey, check out this podcast. And he goes, oh, that's my sons. Who would have thunk?

[A]

I'm sure it's a family friend. No. Or somebody that knows him and knows you. That's like, hey, did you know.

[B]

Hey, hey, guess what? Nah. No.

[A]

You don't think that.

[B]

Who the knows both of us? I have a different last name than him now.

[A]

Yeah, but people know that. You're his. I imagine people that know him who I don't know, but people that. Okay, people that know my aunt know that that's my aunt. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So sometimes on Facebook or.

[B]

Right. So he said I was on the road. Sure. So he's traveling for work.

[A]

Yeah. Maybe bumped into somebody and they're like, hey, your boy's doing this thing. Good. Good for him. And he's like, what?

[B]

Yeah. Who would that be? I don't know exactly. I'm telling you, no one. I'm telling you who it is. Nobody. Nobody. There's nobody in his works. One, I don't even know where he works right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Two, that he knows that knows me and knows my new last name, my mom's name. Also knows I have a pot and I'll just want. Hey, did you have you listen to your son's podcast or. Hey, you should check out this podcast. He goes, that's my son. None of that happened.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Somebody let slip about the podcast.

[A]

Somebody ratted you out.

[B]

My sister.

[A]

That somebody is.

[B]

It's either my sister or my sister's baby daddy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One of them two, big mouth. And he had to basically act like he stumbled upon it himself because he can't tell the truth.

[A]

That's the upsetting part.

[B]

Yeah. Don't. Oh, somebody told me. No, they didn't. And then don't go, oh, now you have something to talk about. Oh, yeah, I'll talk about how you said nice things. Hey, means nothing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So anyway, my therapist said after the manipulative, I was like, ah, just feels manipulative. Like, you know, don't like it. She goes, well, how did it. He did give you a compliment. How did it feel? Well, it felt like nothing, because it doesn't. It's not meaningful to me. Like, hey, it's great. You're doing great stuff. Okay. I don't. I don't know why.

[A]

Why don't you think it registers?

[B]

Because I know how narcissistic he is in that. I just don't believe that it's for me. I don't think it's a compliment for me. I think it's for him to be able, like, oh, I'm doing. Building up my son, what a good guy I am. That's what I think it is. And, you know, that might be true and that might be cynical. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But from what I know, that's what I believe to be true. Two things usually. Yeah.

[A]

This seems to be a common theme, though, with you, with a lot of things where the belief into it is not there. Like whether it's hearsay or whether it's interactions or whatever. Like, you tend to be more on the cynical side. Have you thought about probably.

[B]

Sorry, go ahead. I'm just kidding. Have you thought about already deflecting with jokes? Yeah.

[A]

Leaning into belief. Like, leaning like, what if it is true? What if he is just saying good job or. Or not just this interaction, but other things too. Like in life, like when somebody says, hey, blah, blah, blah, and. And you. And you usually will. We'll go cynical, right. And be like, well, I don't believe that. Or they're saying this, or they're doing this because of this.

[B]

It sounds like you're talking specifically to, like compliments and words of affirmation type of thing.

[A]

There's also actions too, where somebody will do something or whatever. We'll be trading stories or something like that. But. And you're like, yeah, but they don't mean that. Like, they're doing that because of this. Or they're like, we'll talk about friends or something like that. Yeah, yeah, but they. Yeah, they're doing that to feel better about themselves or something like that. Like, what if you were to lean into the other side? Or have you thought about that?

[B]

I haven't really thought about it. And I got to tell you, I don't think I'm interested.

[A]

Yeah, you. You want to.

[B]

I don't want. I don't want to. Like, here's the thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Let me tell you one thing.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't know, man. Such a idiot.

[A]

Excellent.

[B]

I don't know. I see your point. It does seem like a better existence to skew more optimistic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or accepting of kind kindness. I just. If I don't believe it, I don't believe it. And I. I don't know. I get. Yeah, maybe belief is a choice. I've never looked at it that way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, it is hard for me to accept compliments regardless, though.

[A]

Yeah, but we've talked about that.

[B]

It's just because whatever I'm doing is. I've heard that's my expectation already. So you're going, oh, you did a good job.

[A]

I'm like, was I supposed to.

[B]

Was I supposed to do something shitty? Yeah, Like, Yeah, but that's not new.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I think this kind of bleeds over into your faith conver. Your faith quest as well, where you've talked before about, like, I wish I was somebody that had faith. And it's.

[B]

Oh, God, I wanna. I wish I believed in go, dude. Yeah.

[A]

Faith is just belief and so like.

[B]

Yeah, I don't believe it.

[A]

I know.

[B]

You know?

[A]

I know you don't.

[B]

Do you?

[A]

Oh, no, no. Not with religion specific. No.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No. Dude, that's unbelievable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's very rare that I'm literal. Unbelievable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't. I don't understand it.

[A]

I don't get it either. Like.

[B]

And also, you know, we're not going to talk about religion. We don't need to do that.

[A]

No. But getting back to this idea of leaning into more of. I don't want to say. I'm trying to find a different word, but. Because it's not naive. It's. What is the word I'm looking for? Acceptance.

[B]

Or like, it's always acceptance with you.

[A]

Or surface acceptance or something. Like just taking things as they are instead of trying to.

[B]

Like, go deeper and find the true intent.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Or dismantle it.

[B]

Yeah. You ain't gonna catch me, bro.

[A]

Yeah, I know, I know.

[B]

So stupid. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, that'd be great. But you know what? You know what it is? If. If you say something to me and I don't buy it and then. But I act like I do. I'm being inauthentic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm just like, why am I lying to this person?

[A]

Yeah, But. But yeah, it.

[B]

Well, I got another observation. That is a question.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Is that. Okay, so let's say you. You go, hey, I really like that new painting, dude. It's so cool. And I go, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

Yeah, you know, okay, whatever, dude. And you go, no, it's like super dope. So am I. Is it that I don't believe you or is there something deeper in me that is almost being manipulative and just like getting you to tell me over and over again. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah, I know what you mean. It could be multiple truths. Because I would never do that. But the. But the manipulative.

[B]

I'm not manipulative.

[A]

But the manipulative thing couldn't be a purposeful choice. It could be a self love thing or a self confidence thing where it's not. You're not trying to get me to say it for ego. You're getting to say because you don't believe it yourself. And maybe that's what's happening. So manipulative is a harsh word there. It might just be enforcing self confidence a little bit more.

[B]

Are you good at taking compliments?

[A]

I have to believe it.

[B]

And if you don't Then what?

[A]

Then I. Yeah, I can't.

[B]

What do you say?

[A]

I say thank. I'm nice. I'm polite. I'm always. Hey, man, I'm always polite.

[B]

So you do accept it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At face value.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. But do I believe it? Not unless I believe it. So if I make something I think is really dope and somebody goes, hey, that's dope. I'm like, thank you. But if I make something, I'm like. I'm like, man, that's dope. I'm like, thanks. And in my head I'm like, you know, you.

[B]

You usually think the stuff you make is dope, though. No.

[A]

Sometimes it's hard for me to. Sometimes it's hard for me to watch back and see because I know I can see the band aids. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's. I had to, like. I had to patch that or I had to, like, move that or I had, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I. Yeah, it's like. It's like plastic surgery, right? Like, people are like, man, that looks great. Like, I can see the stitches. Like, I. I know where I cut.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was gonna ask you, what does it take then for you to believe something that seems to be.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

Know, the million dollar question? And I'm not talking just compliments. I'm talking, like, again, situations like this text with your dad or scenarios or hearsay or whatever. Like, what does it take for belief?

[B]

One, it has to make sense. So there's got. It's got to be logically sound. Yeah, we know that and we know that and we know that. Yeah. Two, I'm pretty good at trusting my instincts, so I guess if my gut tells me, like, yeah, that makes sense, that checks out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Seems pretty simple in my head.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Because there have been time. I mean, there's plenty of times where things look and they make sense and you just always have. You're like, something's not right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you gotta trust your gut.

[A]

Yeah. I think I operate like the law, where it's like, it's. It's. You know, it's right and it's innocent until it's proven guilty kind of thing, where I'm like, yeah, that's. That is what it is until.

[B]

So you believe it until you're proven otherwise.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That makes a lot of sense.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you find that that serves you well?

[A]

Sometimes.

[B]

Are you taking maca yet?

[A]

I. I am, and it's pretty Cool.

[B]

Yeah, I'm only on day three. Yeah. Which one are you taking? You on the black. Yeah, I do the black too. I do the black and I do the tri blend.

[A]

Oh, you do too?

[B]

I do too. Okay, technically three, because the blend is a blend of three. Okay, well, so if you don't know about maca, it is a root native to Peru. It grows in three colors. Black, red and yellow or yellow or yellow, yellow or yellow. I take the black and I take the tri blend. My girl takes the red and you take the black.

[A]

I do.

[B]

Typically, yeah. Men take the black, women take the red and then you intersperse the tribal land. But it has a lot of benefits. I've been taking it daily for a little over a year. I have noticed a lot mood, skin, hair, energy. If you've heard testosterone, you know, libido. I've had a lot of improvements.

[A]

Yeah, all true.

[B]

And we get. Well, I get our. I get my maca and I have been from a company called the maca team. They are the biggest supplier of genuine maca from Peru. The biggest supplier in America. And they are nice enough to partner with. Partner with us and give a discount code. If you want to try out maca, you can go to themaka team.com secondhand therapy and you can use code bear cub for 10 off. Oh, fancy. So yeah, if you want to try some maca, try it out, dudes. Try the black ladies, try the red or try the try but at least go to the website, read about it, see if you might want to do it. It's not pharmaceutical, it's all natural. I've been taking it for over a year. I like it. You're three days in, you're less annoying. So we did it.

[A]

We did it.

[B]

The mocateam.com secondhand therapy.

[A]

Check it out. Hey, if you're tired of hearing these ads, which I'm sure you are, you should head on over to Patreon. There are ad free episodes and early access to episodes. You could be hearing this a week early along with acc, along with access to a an entirely different podcast. Some would say a better one called the other shit show.

[B]

It is fun.

[A]

It's non therapy related.

[B]

It is fun.

[A]

Super fun. Plus you have plus you have early access.

[B]

It is fun.

[A]

To my new podcast series, Happy not funny. And it's ad free episodes on that as well. Plus merch discounts. Also fun live show things where we interact with the audience.

[B]

Live streams is what he's trying to say.

[A]

We are not going on tour. Yeah, that's true. What did I say?

[B]

You said live shows.

[A]

Well, same, same. You know, it's like a live show. Nope, it's like a zoom.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Anyways, you'll have access to us in a more intimate manner.

[B]

Intimate.

[A]

How about that?

[B]

Intimate. There's no end.

[A]

Yeah, like the candidate. Like the candies.

[B]

Intimate. Yeah. Also, if you sign up, you get a little treat.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

So check out the different tiers. One of the tiers is just. If you're just here for secondhand therapy, you want no ads, we'll send you a dope little sticker. And I'm gonna be honest with you, a lot of time went into designing this sticker.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Too much. You could argue too much dope sticker, though. So if you sign up for that tier, we'll send you a sticker. The next tier, if you want the other podcast, if you want the bonus stuff from secondhand Therapy, all the little extras, you get the sticker. And we're going to send you a signed print designed by yours truly. That took way too much time. Still. This is way too much time. We'll sign it, we'll send it out to you. And then we have the top tier with the live streams. If you want to hang out with us a couple times a month, you get the sticker, the print, and we'll send you a T shirt that we are not selling or getting anywhere else. So check out Patreon. If you sign up, you get some treats, and it's a good way to support the podcast.

[A]

We'll see you over there.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

There's definitely times where it. Yeah, there's definitely times where I've read something wrong.

[B]

Do you think it serves you well emotionally?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Again, it's not foolproof. Like, obviously, there are times where I'm like, hey, for sure, yeah. Yeah. But I've been trying to think of, like, a scenario where, like, something that's. So if I come. If I come home from the grocery store and I tell you, like, hey, man, this old lady. I was driving while I was trying to park, and this old lady fell down, like, right outside the grocery store, and this dude. This dude came over and helped her up. And, like, it was just such a sweet moment to see this guy, like, pick up this old lady, and he, like, helped her to the car. Like, it was, like, really touching.

[B]

Like. Yeah.

[A]

To see, like, humanity's operating like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're laughing already.

[B]

I'm like, what were you watching? Help her up.

[A]

My car. Oh, I missed that part.

[B]

Yeah, I was like, would you film it?

[A]

No, no, I'm just.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

Just observing it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I come home and tell you that story.

[B]

It's not a story. Go ahead. Off to a great start.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Here's usually. That's a. That's a story.

[A]

I think it's a. Yeah, I think it's a story about a sweet moment.

[B]

I would never tell a soul. I saw that.

[A]

Really? Yeah.

[B]

That's boring as. Dude, sorry, go ahead.

[A]

Not your point. Beside the point. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Here's how I think you would react.

[B]

And if I were you, parking the car, watching it happen.

[A]

No, I'm telling you the story.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Here's how I'm gauging your belief.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

This is. This is usually. I'm trying to think of a scenario. This is. I'm trying to, like, describe.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

How I observe your belief.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I come home, I tell you the story about the sweet moment I saw, and you go, yeah, but that guy wouldn't have done if other people weren't watching. The only reason that guy picked her up is because it was like, it's out front of a grocery store. Like, of course he's gonna pick her up off the ground.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

And I'd be like, you don't think that he just picked her up? And you'd be like, no, dude. You'd be like, why would he. If there's not people around? He would never do that.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's very cynical.

[A]

Yeah. And so I think a lot of times when I'm sharing a story with you or something like that, that is often the. The back and forth that we get into is as you're like, why would that. I'm like, I don't know, man. So for me, operating as, like, innocent until proven guilty. That's what I mean, where I'm like, that's a sweet moment. And isn't that great?

[B]

Let me say one thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you're presenting me with something from tick tock.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

100 of the time. That's my.

[A]

Yeah, I know. If that was a video I saw on Tick, like, you'd be like, that's staged.

[B]

Hey, why is the camera on a tripod? It's not even shaken. Yeah, yeah. Real life. I would. I think I'd be a little more receptive.

[A]

Really?

[B]

I would think maybe not.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But yeah, if it's a Tick Tock. Yeah. Miss me with that, bro.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Catch me offline. Give me. Catch me offline with some.

[A]

Bro.

[B]

I don't need Tick Tocks, you know?

[A]

Catch me off lines. A T shirt.

[B]

It's pretty good.

[A]

Catch me offline.

[B]

Yeah. Catch me offline, bro. I don't need tick tocks. I don't need to feel. I don't. I don't buy that, dude. Yeah, bro. One time my. In my last relationship. She's dead now. That's the one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We were out. I don't even like talking about this right now, but for the point of what we're talking about, I'm gonna do it. Anytime there's a. An unhoused person, homeless person. I don't know the proper terminology now.

[A]

It changes all the time. Sure.

[B]

Yep. And if I'm eating or something, I always offer to have them come in with me and I'll buy them food.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we were going to get Chipotle, and there was a guy up front. I was like, hey, man, are you hungry? And he goes, yeah. And I was like, all right, come on in. Order something. And we got back to the car, and my girl was, like, texting her friends about, like, oh, it was a really sweet moment. Like, I'm so happy I'm with somebody like this. And I was like, don't send that. I was like, that's. That's not for anybody else. Like, don't film it. It's not for online. It's. That's for that guy, and that's it. So, like, tiktoks and like, off, bro.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you have to film the kind thing you're doing, it's. It's only for you.

[A]

Yes, I agree with that. What if you. What if you catch a moment? Like, again, like, what if this was a video that I saw on Tick Tock of somebody in their car, like, whipping up their phone, driving by, and some guy's picking some old lady off, man. They're going, oh, and then that's the Tick tock.

[B]

Nope. Why'd you post it? For the likes.

[A]

Humanity.

[B]

Nah. Hey, real quick, listen up. Nah, catch me offline, dude. Oh, you know.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I don't. I don't like that.

[A]

So. Okay, so this goes back into belief. So what does it take?

[B]

I don't know. I guess I got to experience it firsthand. Call it trust issues, I guess.

[A]

I don't know, bro.

[B]

What do you call that?

[A]

Deep boy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Firsthand.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, you could tell me, so. Okay. But I mean, a lot of things are happening, dude. A lot of things are happening. A lot of things are happening, you know? Wow.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

I had something I wanted to talk to you about.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I was with my girl's family recently, and her sister and I yapping it up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like we always do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she was talking about. She has. She has big fomo.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You have that. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Why?

[B]

What it. What is it about? Like. Okay, just. Why?

[A]

Why.

[B]

What are you afraid you're missing?

[A]

Oh, man. So much. So much. I struggle with missing out because of realizing that we only. There's only one shot at all this, and I'm never going to be this age again. I'm never going to be this young as I am right now. I'm never going to be. I'm never going to look like I look right now. I'm not going to be as active as I am right now. I'm not going to be like, all of those things. Like, no matter what state I'm in right now, this is probably the best because the road ahead. Hey, man, I'm not getting any younger. So, like, how many more opportunities am I going to get? How many more times is this going to come around? Probably close to zero. That's how I feel at least, is like I'm. Or think and feel. And all that stuff is like, this is probably not going to happen again or I'm not going to get this opportunity again. So. Yeah. Yeah, I better. I better do it now. Right.

[B]

But what. What are you missing by doing that thing? Where does it end? Because you have this opportunity that's never going to come around again.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You go do that and then something great happens at home. You missed it. Like, where. Where does the. Where does it end?

[A]

I mean, what's happening at home? I'm home all the time, you know, I mean, like, nothing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Nothing's happening at home.

[B]

Okay. You missed whatever happens at McDonald's down the street, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The point is. The point where I can't wrap my head around it right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We are missing literally everything besides this moment. I'm not inviting you to merge. Still talking.

[A]

Go for it.

[B]

We're missing everything but this moment.

[A]

So.

[B]

What the. What are we worried about? All we. All we have is right now and what's happening right here. You go do the other thing. You're still missing everything else. You're. We're always going to miss something.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What the are you afraid of? You're already missing everything.

[A]

Yes, but I'm not miss. Like, I know that things are happening right now and that I'm missing out on, but I haven't been asked to do this specific thing. So if Right now, somebody had asked me to go to a concert tonight, and I was like, I gotta record. So now I'm sitting here and I'm thinking, I could be that concert. And I don't know when my buddy would ever ask me to do that again or when they're going to play again, or if they're going to be this close again or like, whatever the. So I'm missing that specific opportunity by being here. So I'm not worried about missing out on everything that's going on. I'm. I'm worried about missing that thing. And that's, that's the scary part is how, how, how many more times will that opportunity come around? Will my friend be like, who cares? I. I care because I'd like to have that moment with my friend and do that thing that they're talking about doing.

[B]

And then you hear Jeremy Allen White popped into Brad's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you didn't hear your phone because you were at the concert, so you missed out.

[A]

That's different. Nope, because nobody invited me to go.

[B]

Nobody said that's what happened on your phone.

[A]

Yeah, that's.

[B]

Dude, Jeremy on Weitzer come pop by now.

[A]

That sucks. But it, it doesn't come with the regret or the FOMO of being like, hey, you, we went to this concert last. It was incredible. You should have gone with us. We had an extra ticket or whatever the. And you're like, yeah, yeah, I know. That's different than just hearsay about, like, not hearsay. It happened. Yeah. Like, man, you missed out last night. Like, you. You know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Jeremy Ellen White popped in and you're like, ah, damn. That's a different feeling than. We invited you to this thing. You chose not to.

[B]

So it's just about you being included for you.

[A]

No, it's about. It's the previous knowledge of. I mean, that too, but it's the previous knowledge. I don't know what I'm not. I don't know what I don't know. I don't know what I'm not. What I'm missing right now. I have no clue what I'm missing.

[B]

Everything. Everything but this.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But again, if I was invited to a concert right now and I said no, then I know that I am definitely missing out on that right now.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

That's the difference. I don't know what I don't know. I do know what I do know. And I'm missing that concert with my friends. That sucks. And that was so stupid. I don't know when I'll See them again or the concert or anything. That doesn't make sense.

[B]

Not to me.

[A]

Really. It's the same. Same, same.

[B]

Yep, same, same. You missed a thing. There's going to be many more concerts. You're going to see those friends many more times.

[A]

Maybe.

[B]

Okay, maybe there's mass shoot at the concert, maybe. Exactly. You miss everything.

[A]

But right now there's the cynical. Maybe everybody gets shot. Maybe.

[B]

Yeah. So what are you worried about it? Just enjoy what's happening in front of you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know. I don't get it. I don't give fomo. I don't understand it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I really don't. I just. I don't know, man. Seems like everybody's always worried about what else they should be doing.

[A]

Like, did she describe it at all? Did she like talk about what, what it is for her?

[B]

She was just talking about. Yeah, kind of that same thing, you know? No, not really. The only thing she had said because they were talking about like going out for like a sister's dinner.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then the other two sisters were like, yeah, we kind of just rather stay in. And she's like, I just got, you know, she's like, I have kids at home. I have like, I go out and like miss it. I'm like, yeah. And then we all stayed in and.

[A]

Had a great night.

[B]

A lot of laughs. Watched the World Series. Like, I just don't get it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, okay, you go out and then your two year old daughter says this thing for the first time. It's hilarious. And then you miss that. You're always missing something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just. Why chase it? Because whatever you chase, you're leaving something else behind. Oh, it's. It's unavoidable.

[A]

Yeah, that's valid.

[B]

So I don't know.

[A]

Yeah. Part of it is acceptance too. Yeah. There's acceptance in there for me at least. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. We talked a little bit about that in therapy this week because I've been, I've been talking a lot about love and trying to figure out. I told my therapist too. I was like, it's so embarrassing at the age of 42 to be like, what is love? And he's like, he's like, actually, that's. I wish more people were asking that question. He's like, I wish more people were exploring, like, what that is and what that means and all that stuff. It made me feel better because it was really like, I felt like a.

[B]

Idiot, like being like, did it make you feel better?

[A]

Yeah, it did. It did.

[B]

You. Made you do it.

[A]

It made me do it. That son of a. I had a gun and he said, you better feel better.

[B]

Well, good boy.

[A]

Yes, sir, Mr. Doctor.

[B]

All right. If you figure out what love is, isn't it constantly changing as you change? Because love is different to everybody.

[A]

Yeah, right. Yeah. But to someone who is unlearning that you have to earn love. Yeah, it's, it's, it's quite the adventure. It's quite the quest to figure out like, oh, I can, I can be myself. Yeah. Anyways, opportunity. We were talking about opportunity and how I struggle with it. Because as someone who has like low self image and things like that and struggle with acceptance and things like that, like opportunity.

[B]

Are you tired of staring at your phone? Are you addicted to it?

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Are you?

[A]

Yeah. Well, yeah, like everybody else. Sure.

[B]

Okay. All right. Well, I got a new. Let me tell these people about my new phone. Okay?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's called the light phone.

[A]

Oh, I've heard about that.

[B]

The light. Yeah, you seem to use it. The light phone. Also known some people call it a dumb phone. Anyway, it's a smartphone, it has Internet, but the Internet will only get you navigation. There is no email, there is no social media, nothing like that. It does calls, it does text, it does navigation. It has a calendar and a flashlight.

[A]

It's like having a BlackBerry again.

[B]

Kinda. Oof. Yeah, I love that. It has a pretty cool camera too. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, it's got a dope camera on it. It's got a camera. Yeah. Anyway, they were nice enough. They sent us a little discount code if anybody wants to get on the light phone train with us. So there's a link in the episode description for the light phone. And then if you want to pre order the light phone three use code. Secondhand therapy. All lowercase. Try out a light phone. It's pretty great.

[A]

Stop your doom scrolling.

[B]

Stop your doom scrolling. Be more present in life. Link down below. Promo code. Secondhand therapy. All lowercase. Check out a light phone. Join us in the present world.

[A]

When I. When I am invited to something or when I am getting offered something, like I feel like I need to take it because I don't know when the next time that'll happen or if it'll ever happen again. Because the way I was describing to my therapist was like, it feels like I. I tricked him, you know what I mean? It feels like I used a fake ID to get into the club. And so like I better dance all night because I don't know if I'll ever be allowed in this club again. I got in somehow. I don't know how, but if they find out that I'm here, oh, man, they're gonna boot me. And I don't know when I'll be back. So I'm getting invited to this thing. I better go.

[B]

Because you'll never get invited again.

[A]

Yeah, because why would you not get invited again? I don't know, because I. Because I think I'm a piece of. And I'm a terrible person.

[B]

And they invited you this time because you tricked them.

[A]

Yeah. They must not see it yet or they must not, whatever the it is. And so they're like, oh, this guy's cool. Let's go. And I'm like, cool. And then who knows?

[B]

And then if they don't ever invite you again. What does that mean?

[A]

Means. Means they.

[B]

They saw it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They saw your piece of.

[A]

Yeah. I'm not worthy.

[B]

And then what?

[A]

And then no more friends, no more opportunities.

[B]

Then what?

[A]

Then lonely.

[B]

You ever dealt with that before?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

This guy. You've never dealt with being lonely before, huh?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what are you afraid of?

[A]

Forever lonely.

[B]

This guy.

[A]

All right.

[B]

You're gonna be forever lonely, dude.

[A]

Forever lonely. That's unlovable.

[B]

Not a thing.

[A]

Terrible person. Okay. Yeah. All these things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hey, man, that's my belief. Getting back to belief. That's what I believe.

[B]

What do you. About what? Whatever, man. You believe. So you believe you're a big piece of. Yeah, that's a belief.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the only reason anybody would ever spend time with you is because they don't see your big piece of. You've tricked them. And that's for everybody in your life. Oh, even me?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You think I don't see you're a big piece of. Yeah. Do you. Do you believe that? You think you're hiding from me still?

[A]

No.

[B]

So what are you talking about?

[A]

I think you see me. Okay. Will you spend the most time together? Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And what happened?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So what. What are you afraid of?

[A]

Are you leaving?

[B]

When? All right, I'm being serious. I know you are. I just wish there was. Was, like a reason or, like anything behind it other than, oh, you just.

[A]

Get tired of it. You just be like, oh, yeah. What the. Am I doing?

[B]

Okay, but even if I do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then what?

[A]

Then lonely. Then.

[B]

Oh, no. So is that the worst case scenario for you, is to feel lonely?

[A]

No.

[B]

What's the worst case scenario? In this. In the string of beliefs?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Don't lie to me.

[A]

I really don't. I don't. I don't know what the big the boogeyman is. I don't know. It's like, Yeah, I don't know. Abandonment's huge, but it's not really the feeling of, like, the aftermath of it of, like, lonely. It's just, like, abandonment in general. Just. Yeah, I think, too. What's worse than that is. And we talk about this all the time, but, like, misrepresented abandonment or, like, misunderstood abandonment where, like, something happens and I'm like, oh, no, that's not. That wasn't what I was. And it's too late, gone, and I don't have a chance to be. Like, that wasn't my intent. Like, what the. Like, just misunderstood and then abandoned.

[B]

So big on intention.

[A]

Yeah. That's why context matters to me so much, because I'm like, what.

[B]

What is the story here that doesn't change the impact.

[A]

We talk about this all the time. For me it does. For me, it does.

[B]

But you don't get to choose how the other person feels if it doesn't change the impact for them.

[A]

No, what I'm saying, it changes the impact for me. Context changes the impact for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's why it's important for me so much, is.

[B]

Yeah, that's why it's important for you to receive context.

[A]

Yeah. But I. Yeah, and. And with that, what we've talked about before is, like, I just assumed that it's just as valuable to other people, even when it's not. I'm like, oh, you don't you want to know? Like, aren't you dying to know? I always am.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm like, yeah, I. I understand it. I understand the impact is impact. Like, I understand that. I just. Yeah. Intent is intent in context, like, matter a lot to me.

[B]

Yeah. I value intent a lot with myself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just. Over time, I've learned it doesn't really matter that much.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I have learned matters a lot? Accountability.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm being serious.

[A]

I know. Yeah. You and I have been talking accountability a lot. I can't seem to separate it with fault.

[B]

Who cares?

[A]

I know. I don't know. It goes back into context and intent.

[B]

Hey, it's your fault.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now what?

[A]

Well, then that's accountable. Sure.

[B]

Would you ever say that was my fault? The all the context you give is so people know it wasn't your fault.

[A]

That's not true.

[B]

This fucking guy.

[A]

That's not true. The context. A lot of Times is just setting the scene or, like, filling you in.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think you're lying to yourself on that one. Whenever you give context, it wasn't my. I did my best. It wasn't my fault.

[A]

That's not always the context. That's not always the concept.

[B]

Just when it matters.

[A]

Come on, man.

[B]

Come on, man. No, disagree.

[A]

Yeah. I think I used to be like that for a long time. Yeah. But as I'm learning more about accountability and stuff like that. Yeah. I think that. Yeah. Accountability is also weird for me because I never had to be accountable growing up. Never.

[B]

Yeah. But you're 42 now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A lot of happens when you moved out, right?

[A]

Sure. But not really.

[B]

I don't get it. That makes no sense to me.

[A]

Look, I know that you were 42 since you've been 8 years old. Like, I realized that.

[B]

Yeah. But even, like, the way I grew up, so much has happened in between then that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm very different than even the things I learned growing. I'm still unlearning a lot.

[A]

Yeah. But.

[B]

Yeah, I don't. Yeah, that doesn't ring. Ring with me.

[A]

Yeah. And I know you're gonna hate this because you're gonna tell me that that's not my life anymore and this and that. Yeah. But I'm gonna bring it up anyway because it's context and.

[B]

Sarah, so it's just for you. Let's go.

[A]

So touring for so long, there's not really life there. Like, there isn't. There isn't. It's. There's a lot of gaps there. So when you're talking about, like.

[B]

The.

[A]

Time in between from then until now, like, the majority of it was spent touring and not really. Like, all I really had to do was just show up, you know, show up on time, like, do the shows, make sure I'm doing that or whatever. Like, in my relationships, even with friends or even with girlfriends and things like that were very limited.

[B]

But you're still a part of them.

[A]

Yeah, but not in a normal way or traditional sense. And so even those have big gaps in them. Yeah. The. The way. I don't know. Never got a lot of time with anyone. You know what I mean? Like, I would here and there, but not in big clusters like you would if you were just, like, in person.

[B]

Yeah, but I mean, you're constantly in touch with people. No.

[A]

Yeah, but what do you. What do you.

[B]

Being a partner long distance and being a partner up close, I would think you would need more accountability long distance.

[A]

Yeah. Not in the way that you and I always talk about it where it's like, oh, this thing happened. And it's like, well, yeah, the thing didn't happen because I wasn't in town or I wasn't around or something like that. And so it's like the conversations we're having is like, I miss you. And the show was great, you know, this or that, or like, friends. It's like, what have you been up to? Have the kids, what's going on? Like, how you been? What are you working on? That kind of. So, like, those harder conversations, those more like real life moments were happening, but very sparingly. And so even then, I didn't have to exercise a lot of accountability.

[B]

You're not gonna believe this.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't buy it.

[A]

Of course you don't.

[B]

I don't?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You upset? How are you feeling?

[A]

Same as I always do.

[B]

Lonely.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How are you feeling?

[A]

I don't know. I just. I don't know again, like, you know, what's it take? You know what I mean? Like, I'm telling you my experience with touring for 20 years and you go.

[B]

Nah, I'm not saying that wasn't your experience.

[A]

I'm like, okay.

[B]

I'm saying I think there are countless opportunities even in that life for accountability.

[A]

Sure. That's all what I'm saying. They just didn't. They didn't happen a lot for me. They didn't come up in a way that either was.

[B]

Hey, they came up, sure.

[A]

Yeah. And I didn't recognize him, probably.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just. For you to present it as I was on the road. So void.

[A]

Nah, man, not void. Just sparingly.

[B]

I don't buy that either. I think there. There's constantly moments in life. Yeah. That's my opinion.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm not telling you your experience. I'm saying I disagree with what you're saying.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's all.

[A]

Yeah. I think I'm gonna ask.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Could this be a language thing?

[B]

No.

[A]

Or because I'm saying very little accountability. Maybe you're thinking like, well, the accountability is every week when you have to be at a place and you have to do this and you have to do. Like, that's accountability. And it's like, sure. That's not what we're talking about. Is that happening?

[B]

No.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

You hate that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because that means the latter.

[B]

Right.

[A]

When the latter is you're a piece of and you're not accountable and you just won't admit it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I'm like, okay, I'm telling you my Experience. And you're telling me. No, I'm like, okay, and I'm agreeing with you. I'm sure there were moments that I just didn't recognize because I. I was never really taught accountability. And so, yeah, I'm sure there were moments, and I didn't recognize them. I'm agreeing with that.

[B]

So I think we're saying the same thing.

[A]

I think you're saying it was happening all the time and I just wasn't doing it. And I'm saying I think it happened and definitely happened, but I don't think it was happening all the time.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's what I'm saying.

[B]

Is the quantity important, do you think, or for you? It seems like it is.

[A]

Yeah. Again, context. Yeah, of course the quantity is important. If every time you saw. Okay. You saw your buddy Steve.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You see him five times a year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Five times a year, he punches you in the shoulder as hard as you can.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

Now versus see Steve 5 times a year, and he punches as hard as you can in your shoulder one time. Does it matter?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

I don't understand the point you're making.

[A]

The point is quantity matters.

[B]

Well, one or five. Don't punch me in the shoulder. Sure.

[A]

But you love Steve and you love hanging out with him, and that's your boy. So would you rather him punch you five times or just once?

[B]

I don't understand. This is a comparison.

[A]

This is a quantity question.

[B]

This is a quantity question. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, that matters.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'd rather see Steve five times a year and he punches me one. One time. Yeah. Well.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But does that matter to you?

[B]

How many times someone punches me? Sure.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Quantity. Quantity matters. Okay.

[B]

It's such a bad comparison. The. Would you rather have one apple or three? Yeah. Not at all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. I don't understand the point you're making. That's fine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'll tell you something else I learned in therapy.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

As uncomfortable it is for me to receive a compliment.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

Equally as uncomfortable to give it, even though I really want to.

[A]

Really? Yeah. What? Why?

[B]

You didn't want to ask? You were going to guess, weren't you?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You piece of.

[A]

Trying new things.

[B]

Good for you.

[A]

But after you tell me, I'll tell you. Here. Go.

[B]

Well, what it came down to is I have an issue or a very strong discomfort in being seen as tender. Yeah.

[A]

I wouldn't have guessed it. Watching this show.

[B]

You watch this?

[A]

God, I'm forced to.

[B]

Why would you watch this? Oh, God, Yeah.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah. So Even. Yeah. No matter how bad I want to, like, say a nice thing to you, it's so hard for me. Yeah. What was your guess?

[A]

The. It doesn't feel authentic, and you're not going to do something that doesn't feel authentic. So even if you really want to do it, you're worried that they're not going to believe it or receive it, so you just shut up.

[B]

Oh, no, I don't care if it's authentic to me. That's all I care about.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

If I'm saying it authentically. If they go, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. It's none of my business.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I won't give a compliment if it's not authentic.

[A]

Right.

[B]

If you. I mean, you know this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, you. Hey, I think got this script idea that's no good. Yeah. But that ain't for me. Yeah. Like, I don't. I don't have that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know if that's autism. I think it's being honest, but what the do I know?

[A]

I think it's being honest.

[B]

Yeah. I have a. It's a very. It's very uncomfortable for me, the idea that someone would see me as tender.

[A]

Yeah. Do you think that plays into conversation? Like what we. What we just saw, talked about where you said, I think that's being honest. Right. So a lot of times what we get into is, like, tone or padding. Do you think that that tenderness bleeds over into that where you would just. That's why you are more direct with your conversations instead of, like, patting it or being. Because you'll be seen as tender.

[B]

No, let me give you the example.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I got an example.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yapping with my girl sister. Right.

[A]

Yeah. Just.

[B]

Yeah. Or yapping.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we were talking about her other sister and the changes they've seen in her over the past year. She got out of. You know, I don't know if I'm supposed to say this, dude.

[A]

Just say she got out of something.

[B]

And she got out of a relationship that was not great.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And they were just talking about the changes they've seen in her over the past couple years. One of them being that it's very obvious that she has found a lot more joy in being a mother. Like, she really has. Just. It's just radiating out of her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And in my. In my head, what I wanted to say to the sister I'm talking to is I was. My thought was like something along the lines of. Yeah. I think seeing how good of a mother you are and how actively involved you are with your kids and how you do make time for yourself so that you can be your best version at home. I think watching how good of a mother you are, I'm sure has impacted her over the last couple years. I stopped, thought about what I was gonna say and then went, I don't think I have anything to say. No, I swear to God. Because the idea of giving her a compliment about being a good mother in front of like other people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So uncomfortable. Couldn't do it.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

I feel guilty about it still.

[A]

You should act her.

[B]

Nah. Hey, here's what I was gonna say.

[A]

Yeah. Nah, she'd love to hear it.

[B]

I'd rather tell her in person if I do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Texting feels like a bit of a cop out. Yeah, very. I don't want to be saying, but the whole room's gonna see me the hinder boy.

[A]

Yeah. What's the fear?

[B]

Hey, man, I don't know, dude. Being seen as weak, you say?

[A]

Sure. Is it the same old, like using it against you later or something like that?

[B]

I don't know. I don't know how you could use that against me other than like. I mean, I'm sure it all comes down the same thing. Is it. I'll somehow be hurt by it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know what or how.

[A]

What if somebody thinks you're. If somebody thinks you're weak, do you think they're going to pick on you or take advantage of you?

[B]

Not consciously, but that makes perfect sense that if you, if we're, you know, I'm sure we'll talk about it more unfortunately.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I assume that's down there somewhere. I don't know. Yeah. But I mean, you know, I've talked about on here a little bit. When I think back to when I was like a young kid, I remember feeling scared a lot. I was a really scared kid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, I'm sure, you know, growing up feeling scared a lot and, you know, all very insecure. Growing up a fat kid and yeah, I'm sure. Being tender. Yeah, I. It's like putting a target on me would make sense with that information, but I haven't gotten there yet.

[A]

It's just so odd to me because you are someone who has such a strong constitution that like, it's weird to think that you would be worried or scared about somebody being able to target you or think you're weak or something like that. You have such a strong constitution.

[B]

You'd be like, I thought you're going to say. Worried about someone else's opinion of me, but same thing.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. More so. I didn't say opinion of you because that doesn't hold the same power that what it seems to be you're scared of. Right. Of like somebody can use this against me or somebody can think I'm weak and come after me, or somebody can, you know, like, there's real power in that. And opinion you don't really value.

[B]

You're like.

[A]

There's no power in that. Yeah.

[B]

Come after me for what?

[A]

That's what. I mean, that. That's. Hey, that's what we're all screaming, bud.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's what we're all screaming.

[B]

Yeah. And I mean, it's. It's the way. It's never going to be something logical. It's just going to be. It feels unsafe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With whatever it is. So. Gotta be okay. Being more tender, my little chicken.

[A]

Tender.

[B]

I hate that so much.

[A]

You know what? That was a dick move.

[B]

Listen, hate that that was a dick.

[A]

Move because we're talking about using it against you and all this stuff. And here I am giving you a slight little nickname. And that wasn't right, and I apologize.

[B]

So close. That was close to accountability. That was very close. I appreciate the effort, but fix it. You're a big piece of shit. You fucked it up.

[A]

I know. How did I fuck it up?

[B]

You didn't practice. Over the last 20 years.

[A]

It'S only come up a couple times.

[B]

And we know that. Jesus, that's a bear. It's not.