Benjamin Wittes, editor-in-chief of Lawfare, joins Matt and Chris after spending two weeks traveling across Ukraine—from Kyiv to Kharkiv and Odesa—as the war enters its fourth year. What he describes is sobering. Cities that appear functional on the surface are living through freezing temperatures, rolling blackouts, nightly missile strikes, and the constant threat of drone attacks. Families endure shattered infrastructure and relentless uncertainty, while society strains to maintain some semblance of normal life. Ben reflects on the exhaustion and resilience of the Ukrainian people, the rapidly evolving drone war reshaping modern combat, and why Western audiences often misunderstand the reality on the ground. The conversation also examines Zelensky’s standing at home, skepticism around current peace efforts, and why Ukraine’s fight remains central to Europe’s future security.

This is an unfiltered look at a nation still holding the line.

Ben's "Project Batteries" has raised over $79,000 to put portable power stations in the hands of Ukrainians enduring the depths of winter without heat, water, or electricity amid Russian bombardment. If you'd like to help keep that number climbing, find his latest updates with Venmo/PayPal links below.

https://www.dogshirtdaily.com/p/de-iceing-in-krakow

Ben’s work with Lawfare: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/
Ben’s Substack, Dog Shirt Daily: https://www.dogshirtdaily.com/
Follow Ben on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/benjaminwittes.lawfaremedia.org

Ukrainian Aid Charities

https://dignitas.fund/
https://unitedhelpukraine.org/
https://savelife.in.ua/en/

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Music by Andrew R. Bird

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

S10 Ep32: Ukraine’s Struggle, Four Years On with Ben Wittes