How do we make sense of truth in a world saturated with content? This week, Chris speaks with Alicia Wanless—director of the Information Environment Project at the Carnegie Endowment and author of The Information Animal—to explore how humans have always wrestled with information, long before the internet. They unpack the patterns that emerge when new technologies reshape how we communicate, why influence operations aren’t new, and how today’s information warfare fits into a much older story. From ancient Athens to spam, and social media to national security, Wanless explains why understanding ourselves as “information animals” is key to confronting the chaos of the digital age.

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Find more about Alicia on her website and blog: https://lageneralista.com
Find more about the Carnegie Endowment’s Information Project: https://carnegieendowment.org/projects/information-environment-project

Follow Alicia on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/lageneralista.ca

Order The Information Animal: https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2025/05/the-information-animal-humans-technology-and-the-competition-for-reality

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Secrets and Spies is a spy podcast that sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

S9 Ep62: The Information Animal: Humans, Technology, and the Competition for Reality with Alicia Wanless