David Pollack and Aaron Taylor Talk CFB's Biggest Problem

Summary

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See Ball Get Ball with David Pollack

Episode: David Pollack and Aaron Taylor Talk CFB's Biggest Problem

Date: March 19, 2026
Guest: Aaron Taylor (Super Bowl Champion, Two-Time All-American, Analyst, Joe Moore Award Co-Founder)

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Episode Overview

This episode brings together David Pollack and Aaron Taylor for an unfiltered, passionate discussion about what they believe is college football’s biggest on-field problem: the decline of offensive line play. The conversation ranges from heartfelt stories about coaching legends and the values they instilled, to a comprehensive breakdown of how NIL, the transfer portal, trends in offensive schemes, and even camp culture are damaging the craft and cohesion of offensive lines in the college game.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Remembering Lou Holtz & Coaching Influence

• Lou Holtz's Lasting Impact

  • Aaron shares how Holtz shaped players as men, not just as athletes.

    "We thought it was just X's and O's and controlling lines of scrimmage, but it was much deeper than that. He taught us how to be good men, how to be good husbands, good fathers, good employees without us even realizing that."
    (Aaron Taylor, 02:21)

  • Holtz’s reunions and funeral brought out deep camaraderie among former Notre Dame players.

• Life Lessons through Football

  • Aaron tells a story illustrating Holtz’s brilliant but tough teaching style.

    "Coach Holtz was sending a message...what we do matters, that people are counting on me. And if I don't do my job, if I make what's more important to me...other people pay the price."
    (Aaron Taylor, 05:39)

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The Joe Moore Award: Creating a Culture of Teamwork

• Award Genesis & Philosophy
  • Joe Moore Award is unique—celebrates the best O-line group annually.

    "There was nothing that really captured the essence of what our game, what our country, what our businesses and communities are built around. And that's teamwork, tackle to tackle, sacrificing yourself for the greater good."
    (Aaron Taylor, 08:15)

  • Award emphasizes resilience, toughness, and true unity above personal accolades.

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The Deterioration of O-Line Play in College Football

(Main Theme, 09:47–41:07)

Why O-Line Play Has Declined

• Impact of NIL & Transfer Portal

  • High attrition and lack of long-term player development hurt group cohesion.

    "Transients in the NIL plus the portal I think have had the biggest impact...five have to function together as one...it takes time."
    (Aaron Taylor, 14:13)

  • Frequent roster changes destroy the chemistry vital for O-lines.

• Technique & Toughness Are Fading

  • Core characteristics—toughness, effort, and finishing—are disappearing.

    "Toughness, effort, and finishing are the three characteristics that we're seeing as a position that are starting to go away."
    (Aaron Taylor, 10:25)

• Constant Scheme and Tempo Changes

  • RPOs, tempo offenses make linemen play less aggressively and with less technique.

    "When you run tempo, it makes you efficient, but it takes away your physicality. I can't run downfield 20 yards and peel somebody off the pile because I got to be right back on the line of scrimmage."
    (Aaron Taylor, 19:56)

  • Linemen are practicing technique at 80% because of offensive system limitations.

• Practice Changes and Camp Culture

  • Offseason focus on 1-on-1s & 7-on-7 drills reinforces bad habits.

    "We're starting to practice and replicate bad habits. When I see these one-on-ones that are full speed on pass protection...what are we doing? ...These drills are skewed to be in the defense's benefit."
    (Aaron Taylor, 24:58, 26:40)

  • Less real pad work and more skill-centric showcases hurt physical development.

• Evolution of Defenses

  • Defenses have gotten smaller, more athletic, and more deceptive, making traditional O-line play harder.

    "Defenses have gotten too athletic and too cute on that side of the ball...I think in the next five to ten years, football will start to get more physical again."
    (Aaron Taylor, 23:12)

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What Makes a Great Offensive Line Today?

• Coaching is Key

  • Consistent, effective coaching (e.g. Iowa’s George Barnett) remains paramount.

    "You're only going to be as good as your coach on a day-in and day-out basis. The coaches set the standard and it's the job of the players to live up to that."
    (Aaron Taylor, 30:38)

• Programs That Embody Old-School Physicality (31:25)

  • Iowa, Notre Dame, Michigan, Army (past winner), and aspects of Miami, Georgia Tech
  • O-linemen who “don’t like people” and units that finish beyond the whistle stand out.

  "The biggest tell that I use when I'm watching tape to see if this is a unit worth consideration or that gets it...is the finishing. What happens at the end of the play?"
  (Aaron Taylor, 32:10)

• Technical Clues: Hands, Finishing, and Physicality

  • Punching with hands, finding work after the play—traits of well-coached, physical teams.

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Systemic Change & Positive Trends

• Rule Changes Favoring O-Linemen

  • Crackback/cut block restrictions have made it easier for linemen to dominate on the edge in space.

  "Now everybody got to stay on their feet. If I stay on my track, that defender has to play through me, which works to my advantage."
  (Aaron Taylor, 36:19)

• Hope for the Future

  • Aaron predicts a comeback for physical, less system-driven line play as offenses and defenses continue to adapt and counter-adapt.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Notre Dame Brotherhood & Holtz:

  "He invited me on his podcast...I was the guest and I just laid into a man and took chances and was vulnerable and say all the things you would say to somebody that you loved and respected if you knew that was the last you were going to say."
  (Aaron Taylor, 03:24)

• On O-Line Culture:

  "The fun we have in our position is kicking people's butts." (Aaron Taylor, 13:13)
  "Offensive line is the most selfless position." (David Pollock, 09:04 and 37:27)

• On What to Look for in Great O-Lines:

  "We used to take pride in looking for work and how many knockdowns we could get."
  (Aaron Taylor, 32:28)

• On Lifestyle Contrast:

  "When I go to a restaurant, they ask me if I have any food restrictions. My first answer is small portions. So we got on one side somebody's psycho about their diet and the other side is like, feed me, get in my belly."
  (Aaron Taylor, 40:34)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Timestamps (MM:SS) | |-----------------------------------------------|-------------------------------| | Lou Holtz Legacy + O-line Life Lessons | 01:37–06:58 | | Joe Moore Award Origins & Meaning | 06:58–09:47 | | The Decline of O-Line Play & CFB's Biggest Problem | 09:47–16:01, 18:41–41:07 | | Practice & Camp Culture Issues | 24:58–27:55 | | Best O-Line Programs & What to Look for | 27:55–35:09 | | The Positive of Recent Rule Changes | 35:09–37:27 | | Life Balance and Closing Banter | 37:47–41:07 |

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Tone and Style

• Tone: Candid, passionate, brotherly, at times nostalgic but always analytical.
• Style: Good-natured banter, in-depth real talk, with technical insight but accessible language.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode is a heartfelt tribute to the tradition of line play and the underlying values of football culture, diagnosing why the O-line is struggling in today’s game and what must be done to bring back its toughness and identity. The conversation wraps with both men’s appreciation for leadership, family, and a nod to the enduring value of selfless teamwork—on and off the field.

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Transcript

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[Aaron Taylor]

And how about that Pollock interception in the end zone?

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[Aaron Taylor]

This is C Ball Get Ball. College football's top show for football analysis, predictions and coach interviews. Now here's your host, three time All American, seven time Emmy award winner.

[David Pollock]

All right next have a good friend Aaron Taylor who the the list of accomplishments are are very long. A A Ron is well don't, don't smile like that by the way that I mean super bowl champion, two time all American. Like obviously been in broadcasting now for a long time. Like don't, don't give me that crop, don't give humility stuff. But, but man just think I think about immediately I go to your college football career, me personally and then I immediately go to Notre Dame and Lou Holtz like and just having obviously him passing away and just what's it been like for you guys and you past players getting together. I'm sure y' all been sharing stories and talking through all the all the stuff that that all the great stuff

[Aaron Taylor]

about coach man one of college football's all time greatest man. Just a guy that had an impact on so Us taught us how to be good men, how to be good husbands, good fathers, good employees without us even realizing that. We thought it was just X's and O's and controlling lines of scrimmage, but it was much deeper than that. I unfortunately didn't get to go back to services. My wife's out of the country with one of our kids and I'm hold alone holding down the fort. But I heard I missed probably the best reunion of Notre Dame folks that we've had in the last 50 years. Man, it was an incredible event. He just touched so many people and I think all of us are just grateful that we got a chance to, to be in his presence and to learn from him. And you and I, interestingly have something in common because one of his staff members, the guy that recruited me to Notre Dame was Jay Hayes. Let me tell your ass what David Pollock. Oh, yeah, Quarterback Jay was your, your D line coach in Cincinnati, right?

[David Pollock]

Yep. Yes, sir.

[Aaron Taylor]

Yeah, man.

[Alex Kanchrowitz]

Oh, yeah.

[Aaron Taylor]

It's been a hell of a reunion, dude. I. I had a chance to make my peace with him probably a year and a half ago. I just had that sense that was probably going to be the last time I would talk to him. He invited me on his podcast. I was the guest and I just laid into a man and took chances and was vulnerable and say all the things you would say to somebody that you loved and respected if you knew that was the last you were going to say. So we, I think both felt good in our hearts about that. Now he's in the upper room with all the other greats, man, trying to dial up plays and figure out how to invent better mousetraps to make this game even better than it is.

[David Pollock]

Well, and Reese talked about it. He was like, you know, Lou had talked about why hadn't he gone yet? And he had. He wasn't feeling great and he was. And Skip was like, it's because you still want to be in control, you know, you still want to be the coach and you ain't directing things. Reese was good. Did, did coach. What's the best coach story you got, man? Like in your time with Notre Dame? Just something that he did that will always stick out like that you'll never forget.

[Aaron Taylor]

Well, he helped me understand the importance of what my role was. And my sophomore year, I was starting, it was still moving pretty fast. Most of the times I knew if it was run or a pass, but not all of them. Kind of in that stage as a first year starter. So it's late in the year it's November, we're running scout team and putting in our offense. And there was this D lineman on the scout team that I wanted to whip his tail. So I was all pissed off and frustrated. I was getting my, my ear chewed out by Joe Moore, my own line coach. And on the snap of the ball, I take this big first step because I'm a wind up and wallop him. Of course. Slanted inside, made the tackle in the backfield. 3 yard loss. Damn it, Aaron Taylor, get your ass out of my drill. No, no, no, Coach, I got it. You know, I'm buckling my junk up. The backup comes running in, the number two guy, his eyes are like this. Holt says, get your ass out too. You're not worth the damn either. So he basically set up this whole thing so that they would run the play exactly as if Aaron Taylor was in there again. So everybody comes up to the line of scrimmage, we're bringing it back, but the tackle doesn't know what to do because there's 10 people on offense. So he lines up where he normally did with this three foot gap. No, no, no, line up exactly where it is. You're supposed to be the defensive lineman. It's all crazy. And combobulated at the end pre snap is this if it was? A UFO came and teleported me out. So there's a defensive lineman lined up over air. There's 10 people on offense, 11 on defense. A quarterback comes up under the center. Blue 52. Blue 52. Set, hut. Three techniques, slants across, hits the running back in the field. Another three yard loss. Holtz comes running over, grabs you by the face mask, says, see, Aaron Taylor, doesn't matter whether your ass is in there or not. No difference. And everybody started dying laughing. Everybody except for me. But the genius of that, David, was in that moment, Coach Holtz was sending a message to me and the rest of the team that what we do matters, that people are counting on me. And if I don't do my job, if I make what's more important to me, and in that case, kicking somebody's ass and take too big of a step instead of the step that I was taught, other people pay the price. And that wasn't okay. And that's just one of the million stories that I and all of his players have about how he combined life and football to be the greatest teacher we ever had.

[David Pollock]

Yeah, I was with Jerome Bettis yesterday and he was, he was talking about it too, and talked about. He did talk about the reunion how good it was. It's interesting you mentioned Joe Moore in that, in that as your offensive line coach. Now, obviously being a part of the Joe Moore award and all that goes into that, how cool was that? And just how big of an honor is that to be a part of it and to be coached by Joe Moore?

[Aaron Taylor]

It was huge, man. Eleven years ago, we started out with an idea. On June 7, 2015 and December 20 of that same year, we rolled college football's biggest trophy and the only one to celebrate a group or a unit into Alabama's team meeting room. That was the year, of course, they won the national championship. Derrick Henry won the Heisman. So it was a good year for us to start the award. And I think without question, we got it right. But we were building.

[David Pollock]

I did a bad job. Joe Moore is for the best. It's the award given annually for the best offensive line. If you all don't know that, like you should, but it's for the best offensive line in the country.

[Aaron Taylor]

Yeah, I appreciate the clarification. And it's funny because I used to have to explain it and now I still do, but. But not as much. But we still have work to do. So your point is spot on. That was the thing, man. In the O line room. It's about the room. It's about us. Whether you're a walk on or an all American, it doesn't matter. It's about the group. And that was really the conversation that sparked the idea because Kirk Ference, who played high school football for Joe Moore, wanted to do something around the offensive line. But is it a coach of the year award? Is it the best interior lineman? We had the Remington, we had the Lombardi, we had the Outland, we had all these other awards, but there was nothing that really captured the essence of what our game, what our country, what our businesses and communities are built around. And that's teamwork, tackle to tackle, sacrificing yourself for the greater good. So we just found a way to celebrate resilience and toughness as embodied by the offensive line. Tie. Fox tied five tough ass dudes that are working together for the common good and just figured out a way to do that. And it's been quite possibly the greatest thing I've ever done, except for marrying my wife and choosing to go to Notre Dame.

[David Pollock]

Yeah, it's awesome. And I think one of the things you learn as a coach and obviously as a player too, is like, it's almost impossible to make the offensive line fun. Like, I can find all these drills man, and I can, like, you can run around, you can chase people, you can catch the ball, you can chase the ball. Offensive line is the most selfless position. And there's an art form to getting those five guys to work together, to be in sync. It's not just about the individual play. Like you said, man, they've got to come together. They've got to work together. So watching the offensive line now in college football, like, where. Where would you say we're at right now with offensive line play in college football?

[Aaron Taylor]

Offensive line playing calls. Football is in trouble. And you alluded to that. I doubled down on that. I covered that. And I think our semifinalist show that we did on Trent's Life on YouTube at Joe Moore Ward 2015 self promotion there. Bang, bang, bang, bang. But your observations are right. And as somebody that oppositionally played against offensive line plays, you probably watching it now this many years and that long in the tooth and thinking, man, I could still go play if this is what it is, because it's different. And I think the thing that makes our position so unique and what our criteria are as an award are toughness.

[David Pollock]

Right?

[Aaron Taylor]

Moving a man from point A to point B against his will, Effort of straining to the last minute, right when you guys let go to make the tackle and accelerating on contact to try to get that flat back. Teamwork. Every single player working with somebody adjacent. If four of us do our job, but one guy has a bus or takes an overstep like I was talking about earlier, the whole team and unit pays the price. So you have consistency, you have technique, and finally you have finishing. Well, toughness, effort, and finishing are the three characteristics that we're seeing as a position that are starting to go away. And there's a lot of reasons that I'm sure we'll get into that.

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[David Pollock]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Aaron Taylor]

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[Aaron Taylor]

But those are the things that define who we are. The fun we have in our position is kicking people's butts.

[David Pollock]

Moving, moving people against their will. Yes, exactly.

[Aaron Taylor]

It's third and three. You got Jerome Bettis in the backfield. What the hell else are we going to do? Can you stop it or not? That's the fun that we have in our position. When it's the fourth quarter and you've worn out and their hands are on their hips and everybody starts making business decisions. Yeah, it's not grab ass, jocularity and hahaha he hoe. But at the end of the day, when you're watching film, you're looking forward to play 47. When you put somebody on their tail that was caught sleeping or thought that they were going to make a play. Now I know that never happened to actually to number 47. I'm just saying.

[David Pollock]

Oh yeah, it did. When, when you look at it, what, what's, what's the first reason? What's the number one reason that you think offensive line play is trending the wrong direction?

[Aaron Taylor]

Transients in the nil plus the portal I think have had the biggest impact, but it's certainly not the only one.

[David Pollock]

Why?

[Aaron Taylor]

Because five have to function together as one. And when you come in as a True freshman. Things are moving fast. You have to develop chemistry. You have to understand what the culture of that room is. I was an All American in high school. I was the hardest worker on my team. I. I didn't know a dang thing about leadership and what hard work was until I got to Notre Dame and I saw the older guys do it. But beyond that, I have to understand where my left guard's going to be, where my center is going to be, where my right tackle is going to be, because on the combination blocks and everything we do in conjunction, it takes time. I got to know if my backers cheated a little bit and I got a backside combination block on an inside zone, I got to look at him to say, hey, I'm going to have to chip here and disappear quickly to be able to cut that backer off. If it's a front door play or a little bit of a nod, to say, hey, I'm gonna go a little bit faster, but I'm gonna hang tough, but make sure you come through to push me off. All of that has to happen without using words. We can make calls pre snap, but while you're on the move, the combination of the blocks that we're required to do against guys that are just as strong as us, but often more athletic takes time with the portal and guys not starting right away or getting challenged or trying to chase the bag, all fair things. What it's happened is the amount of development time that it takes place for a guy to be in a program for two to three years and then start his last two or three is gone. We got guys being on four different rosters in five different years. That makes the core of what makes our position what it is almost impossible to maintain the standards of what we've seen historically.

[David Pollock]

So, so what about, like, give me an example maybe of some. Of some guys you played with. Some. Some different players, you. That made you play differently, that you. You had to know who was next to you and how that affected you, whether they were quicker, whether they weren't as athletic, whatever that is. Like, you know, some. Some communication, some things you needed to know to make you really good at your position.

[Aaron Taylor]

Man, that's a great question, D. And what comes to mind off the top is in Green Bay, I had three different tackles, left tackles, one year, and each of them had different playing styles. Each of them had different experience levels. So even the calls within the calls, if we're running two jet protection or some sort of base call, the tackle can make a stick call, meaning he's going to stick on the four eye technique and I'm going to have to pop out and take the will linebacker, should he come or not. So just from a mechanic standpoint, depending on the confidence level of the guy you're playing with, that can affect the calls and the communication. But beyond that, Bruce Wilkerson, who ended up starting and playing well enough to help us win Super Bowl 31 against the New England Patriots, we called him drop because he had these long arms and this big old booty and. And that helped him be a good offensive line. But he was built like a teardrop, right. He was a Tennessee guy. So drops knees weren't very good. So it was hard for him to move laterally in certain situations. So we would run instead of a combination block where he would come and take over and it was easier for him to pull. So I would block back and he would then take that same track. So we basically would just exchange assignments. But that was based on what his preference was. Well, you don't know that until you go to practice. And it works seamlessly. Bruce gets in there and suddenly it's not working. That's not a knock on him. You got to work with what you got. But each player is going to bring something different to the table. And I think that's the great sign of great units and great teams is use what you got and find a way. And when you have three different dudes playing next to you on our position and on the offensive line, that makes it really challenging. But you got to figure it out well.

[David Pollock]

And you can tell Aaron Taylor played offensive line, hence the way he talks versus C ball. Get ball, host me. We don't talk as intelligently about our position. It's see the ball, go get it. But it's fun to talk about that because it is such a big deal. What about systems now? And when I say that RPOs are a way bigger part of offenses, tempo is a bigger part of offenses. That changes the offensive linemen and their responsibilities and maybe the aggressiveness that in which they can play with.

[Aaron Taylor]

There's no question about it. I remember in my day when we would go two minute man, we all love two minute because y' all would be so tired. You're chasing the quarterback. Rep after rep, can't get subbed out. And it was brutal. So it made our job easy. When you're blocking John Randall twice a year, Pro football Hall of Famer Warren Sapp twice a year, Leon Lett, you're happy when those guys are tired. So that's what really kind of promoted the hurry up, no huddle, spread, or at least one of the big reasons why was because you. It allowed you to operate offensively without the most important position on the field. Gary Danielson brought this point up to me once. He said, what's the most consistent part of football? And he's asking this to the whole seminar room, like all the CBS sports, and nobody had the answer. And he calls me out, he's like, I'm embarrassed for you, Aaron. You're the one that should know this. He said, it's the offensive line. It's the only position in our game that lines up in the same spot every single snap, no matter what. Every other position moves and changes depending on what the opponent does. Except for the offensive line. It literally is the foundation that everything else gets set off of. And I was like, dang, he's right. So when you don't have that core, but you got a lot of dudes that are quick and can run and got a quarterback that can chuck it to him, going up tempo really nullifies the deficiencies of being able to run the football and being able to pass protect consistently. And we saw that in the run and shoot. We saw it with Mike Leach and all the offenses he did, and then it just kind of proliferated. So tempo and style is conducive to limiting those factors. But even if you have guys that are capable of doing those things, when you run tempo, it makes you efficient, but it takes away your physicality. I can't run downfield 20 yards and peel somebody off the pile because I got to be right back on the line of scrimmage and get ready to go. I also don't have to hold my blocks as long as. And what I see with the rpo, which is really the PR O game, the. The pass, run, option run is like the afterthought is that offensive linemen are coming off their blocks. They're not as conscious and tied into their technique because we know coming up the line of scrimmage, what the quarterback's reading. This is probably going to be a throw. So now I'm practicing maybe doing 80% of what I need to do instead of 100% of what I need to do because I'm tired and I'm playing the odds.

[David Pollock]

And you can't go past three yards down the field. So. Right.

[Aaron Taylor]

So you take all of that together again, it starts to be these little things that are affecting everything collectively all at the same time. And that's why slowly but surely we're starting to see offensive line play on all levels diminish.

[David Pollock]

Yeah. And I think we all, we always have revisionist history when we look back, like when we think back, we're like, man, we were so tough. And then sometimes you look back, you're like, man, I'm not as tough as I thought I was. But I do think, I do think defenses have really, really changed too. And I think defense is more hybrids, you know, more disguise, more movement, especially post snap. How do you think that too has affected the offensive line and their ability to really try to fire off and hit somebody in the mouth.

[Aaron Taylor]

Football is this great game because we all think we're innovative. Right. To your point. Like when you look, historically, the more this game has changed, the more it stay stayed the same. Where it's consistent is blocking and tackling, C ball, get ball. Moving a guy against his will from point A to point B, period, point blank. You can't do those things. You can't win in this sport. But the window dressing around it is responsive. People are trying to innovate to use what they got and find solutions. And that's having guys in their underwear. More 10 and 11 personnel, 3 and 4 wide receiver sets accordingly. So you had to go light nickel. You had to go. Your base package became four down rushers, three linebackers of some sort, four DBs. But that third linebacker was a guy that was kind of a hybrid. He could play the run in the box, but he could also drop up in coverage and take a tight end or run him back out of the backfield. And that's your star player, if you will. So it kind of goes back and forth. What we're seeing now is the use of fullbacks and two tight ends starting to come into play because defense have gotten smaller and they're starting to move. And offenses are saying, hey, if we can get big guys that maybe can't be seam splitters and, you know, take the top off a defense like we see, but we got a dude that can block, maybe that gives us an advantage. Football is a numbers game, man. You're playing the averages on the left hash between the 40s in this down and distance in this quarter, when the score differential is this, what are we likely to see against that defense? And then you try to get them with a gotcha. And play callers all game long are trying to set things up for the opportunity. They want to counter punch when the defense zigs when they should have been zagging. So it's, it's Back and forth. And what we're going to see is a reversion to the mean. I think in the next five to 10 years, football will start to get more physical again. We'll get away from the fact of having guys that are more athletic and it'll start to become more physical. And I think you look at a guy like Arvell Reese, who was a safety that got converted to a linebacker, he started to play more towards the line of scrimmage. They're going to take that speed and athleticism and try to make it be a little bit more physical because teams are going to start to try to take advantage of the line of scrimmage because I think defenses have gotten too athletic and too cute on that side of the ball.

[David Pollock]

Yeah, I mean, just make them roll up their sleeves and play like you got a 215 pound linebacker, 220 pound linebacker. All right, let's go put get in the box and let's see you tackle all game. Do you think, you know, Aaron, I, I see all these clips all the time now. We didn't have this obviously, but we didn't do one on one pass rush camps and seven on sevens. Like, does that factor into it too, man? Because we also didn't throw the football in high school. Like, you look around, there wasn't a lot of throwing the football. I feel like you worked at a young age and you ran the football and that was a big emphasis, like being powerful, running the football, learning how to do that. And in today's culture it feels a little different.

[Aaron Taylor]

Buddy, I ran the veer in high school, right? We threw the ball seven times a season. Like, so I remember looking at my forearms just being purple because when I was using, you know, the old school technique of trying to come up underneath the dude's chin strap. Like your, your forearms were just bloody and bludgeoned and bruised. So what's happening now with, with the proliferation of the camps, man, that's been a tough word for me to say today. Hang in there is the fact that we're starting to practice and replicate bad habits. When I see these one on ones that are full speed on pass protection and sometimes run. What are we doing? Like, as an offensive lineman, you can't be as physical as you need to be against defensive linemen when nobody's wearing helmets. You have to be super cautious in that direction. You can't jump set and take a guy on. You can't run block a dude who's stronger than you. Like I used to have to do Dan, Sally Amula. You think I'm gonna set back and punch and stop that big sucker? Hell, no. I run blocked his ass and then would just hop back and try to slow death back to the quarterback because there was zero chance I was going to be able to stop that big old sucker. So the advantage goes to the defensive linemen who are getting faster, more athletic and stronger. And it forces bad habits out of the offensive linemen that are now starting to dip their heads to be able to be strong enough to stop these charges because nobody does what they're supposed to do. When they used to tell us, it was thud. How long would that last? Between me and you? One or two plays until you got, you know, your face or until I crossed your face or sealed you off or you came across. Now all of a sudden, I'm ratcheting it up and it's full speed. Except we don't have pads on. Like we're. We're.

[David Pollock]

And we're fighting, which they don't do that anymore either.

[Aaron Taylor]

Yeah, no, it's. It's. Man, a whole nother story for another time. The reality is that these drills and what we're seeing in the off season and the economics in the business of what used to be 7 on 7 is now the inside guys at the lines of scrimmage. Yeah, it makes great for YouTube clips, but let's see what happens in fall camp. When it's a fair fight, it always changes the equation. So these drills are skewed to be in the defense's benefit. NFL on that level. When it was one on one pass rush, you guys had the advantage because you knew what was happening. You knew what the snap count was, and you didn't have to worry about getting chipped or slide protection or any of the other things. So it's a skewed version of what's what. And because that's where these reps are starting to happen, because you have less reps during the season, because more is starting to take place without pads. Some of these videos we're seeing that are released from some of the spring football camps, and some of the drills these guys are doing make me nauseous. They make me sick to my stomach. Because what I believe I'm watching is the reinforcement of bad habits on the offensive line. And they may seem like they're two different things, but they go hand in hand and are all part of the issue.

[David Pollock]

Yeah, I mean, you ideally want to do drills that translate to the field. That would be a really, really good idea. Who are the guys, man, who are the schools every year, man, like, you just, you watch them and you're like, like, I listen you, you're not being a homer. Notre Dame's one of them. Like, Notre Dame I watch every year. They just got a little, like, they got a little bit of that in them still. They got a little bit of the, like, physicality. But, like, who are those teams every year that you're just like, yep, like, I love it. I hang my hat on that team because they're tough, they're physical. They don't. My favorite way to describe people that are offensive linemen that I like to watch is they don't like people.

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[David Pollock]

I don't like. I want guys that don't like people.

[Aaron Taylor]

It's interesting, man. And what I've seen over the years is that largely the Joe Moore Award is also like the hidden axe is a O line coach of the year award. You're only going to be as good as your coach on a day in and day out basis. The coaches set the standard and it's the job of the players to live up to that standard. And it's hard to do in the world of nil and transients that we reported. George Barnett at Iowa. I of course won this the award this year. Iowa, year over year is the most consistent from a technique and fundamentals and physicality standpoint is maybe any unit we've seen in the country. And they're often doing it with dudes that don't look like they look at Georgia or Alabama or in the Big Ten. They're just different guys. But there's a cultural piece to that. Notre Dame is a group that fits that bill. Michigan, to varying degrees over the years, has been a unit that has fit that bill. But here's the thing I look for, it's finishing. There's nothing natural about the position to play offensive line. Again, we're playing against guys that are strong as us, but are often more or more athletic. So we have to be able to respond and be fundamentally sound. Finishing is a mindset. You have to want to get yourself downfield and to drive a guy into the ground and to block through the echo of the whistle. So the biggest tell that I use when I'm watching tape to see if this is a unit worth consideration or that gets it, that isn't willing to get past that old school piece, is the finishing. What happens at the end of the play? What happens when the ball's away and you've done your job? Are you trotting downfield? Are you looking for work? We used to take pride in looking for work and how many knockdowns we could get.

[David Pollock]

So clean up the pile. Clean up the pile, baby.

[Aaron Taylor]

That's how I made my living, especially after I got hurt in the NFL. I wasn't as physical as I could be, so I found ways to be creative, arguably in the gray area through the echo of the whistle.

[David Pollock]

Hey, you got, you got to live in what area? Whatever area you can live in. But. But when I do, when I do watch it though, man, like I. It does, it always sticks out. Like people that, like they're chasing the pile and they're trying to get a piece, man. Like the, the hardest hits I took at the University of Georgia, not even close. Was Thomas Davis, was Greg Blue, was, was Odell Thurman trying to clean up a pile. Knocking the crud out of me like. And that, that is like, we kind of lost that a little bit. But like you, you can see an offensive lineman, man, that like in a group that like the ball's still going and they're, and they're just trailing and they're just trying to find work and it's freaking awesome to watch. It stands out, man. It stands out.

[Aaron Taylor]

It does. Brent Key and the job he's done at Georgia Tech over the years. I first saw Brent when he was the O line coach at ucf. Like it, it stands out on tape. A dying breed army two years ago earned the Joe Moore Award. They were by far the most physical unit consistently across the board than any other unit we saw. Now, you could argue the quality of play and the level and all those things, but if you came here from Mars, from outer space and wanted to define what physicality looked like, it's what Mike VD did with that unit. So Mike just got hired as a tight ends coach at Miami who's been another unit and a coach consistent with physicality on the offensive line. And I think Mike's going to be able to help them with their technique because Miami was really physical, but they could get sloppy at times. The thing that I look for when I'm evaluating technique is hands. They're the first thing to go when we lose confidence. We want safety valves, we want a lobster claw. We want to grab on the guys because you guys are so quick and we get lazy with our hands. If I can see seven of the 10 hands, punching, throwing jabs, trying to initiate contact, starting the fight, if you will. I know that that's a well coached unit because if they're doing the little things well, they're doing everything well, typically. So if I see a group using their hands really well, I'm thinking this is a technically sound group. The next thing I'm looking for is what happens after the play. I'm not following the ball. I want to see what happens after you get a cut on the back side. It's a front door play. Do you just stand there and watch? Are you trying to catch a cornerback that's coming backside in pursuit angle and gets you a freebie? Those are the sort of little tales that just doing this over the years, just like you guys do on your side of the ball that you start to to learn and have a process and a system for what you're looking for.

[David Pollock]

Well, I'm going to, I'm going to let you in with this because I think you're going to love this. There's a lot of rules. And all those rules and all those changes in the port on all the things that we just talked about has affected you guys in a negative light. I want to talk about one rule that's affected you guys in a positive light. You can't get cut no more. I love watching the big boys on the pen and pool. The guys just get out in space. And this corner can't do that. Chicken shiznik no mo and come and take your legs out. They gotta stand up with you. And guys, I think offensive linemen love it and they should because I don't have to, I don't have to chase your little butt around. Like I get to put my hands on you. And then you see the good old southern baptisms in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. And I love when they land on top, too, with all of their weight. Like that's a rule. I guess I can get behind with Aaron.

[Aaron Taylor]

Oh, buddy, I I that. You're preaching to the choir here, man. There is something beautiful about getting free money. A freebie, if you will. DBs historically have been hard for us when we're outside on the perimeter. The cut and screen plays pin and pull out in space. Again, they're way more athletic than us, so it's easy to juke a dude that's two foot wide. It's much harder to do that if you're six foot wide. But the defense used to be able to cut us, so it was a fair fight. Well, now everybody got to stay on their feet. If I stay on my track, that defender has to play through me, which works to my advantage. Which is why a lot of teams are trying to take advantage of those perimeter runs or perimeter throws that they'll use as outside side runs and so on and so forth. So those things. I think Oregon probably did that better than anybody this season. Their screen game and and what they would do on the perimeter in the pin and pull game was just beauty. That was the O line inappropriate videos that we would send to one another when we would see those sort of things. But the offensive line position is the hardest working group on the field. We're the ones that you only hear about if we make mistakes, but we're also guys that like to have fun and enjoy that by allowing others to do their job. And I think the notion of teamwork and what it is we're built around, we take the game a hell of a lot more seriously than we take ourselves. And I think that's just why it works.

[David Pollock]

Yeah, it's the most selfless position on the field. It is. Everything starts with the offensive line. You know, it's. Those guys are. Those guys are fun to watch, especially the ones that really, really care. Hey, man, great to have you on. I know we get you every year on TV on cbs. I know that. What about the off season, man? What do you get yourself into?

[Aaron Taylor]

Man, it's a lot of youth sports. Running around, chaperoning, making sure meal prep and fuel is right. I got to get my. My two boys on the scholarship so they can get some dang training table. But I spend so much time on the road five days out of the week that my off season really is dedicated to my family, man. It is the gift that keeps on giving. I'm 53 years old. I'm still scholarship, but I'm married. Well. And I love my children. And it's important that I'm around. It's important that they're around me and vice versa. So I spend a lot of time at home, man. That's my vacation. If I ain't got to get on an airplane. Things are good in the Taylor household. So I'm around and would love to hop on a little bit more because I got some spies down there. David. And I was instructed to ask you about what your take on striplings is. Give us a play by. Play on. On what the striplings experiences.

[David Pollock]

Like, oh, my gosh, it's heaven. It is absolute heaven. And it's. It's a. It's a. Basically think about it, like, for everybody that doesn't know, think about it like, it's. It's a. It's a. It's a grocery store, but like, of the most. It's country as can be, but you got all the food. The butcher shop is amazing. You can go in there and get steaks, you can get shrimp. You can get salmon. Like it's got everything. And then ours right here next to us, man, there's no grocery stores nearby, so their jalapeno jerky. Oh, my gosh. Oh, we. We live. I go. I go once a week and get like 10 bags because my son smashes it. He loves it so much. And it's 50 grams of protein in a pack, but it is. It is as good as it gets. Man, small, like quaint, not too much, but you can get just about anything you need. It's, it's, it's the real deal.

[Aaron Taylor]

I'm hoping Striplings with that endorsement is going to be a show sponsor for you at some point. But I do want to put you on the spot and ask you to compare their biscuits to the golden pantries.

[David Pollock]

Oh, because I've had those too. We have those for our, for our school every year. Both really, really solid. I gots to be honest. Because we got to be honest to the people.

[Aaron Taylor]

No doubt.

[David Pollock]

Aaron, this, this ain't a biscuit guy. I mean, there's not a lot of biscuits that go in this temple. No. I am an egg white, chicken, sausage, hard boiled egg kind of a guy. I am a psycho with my diet, so I am not the best one to ask for that. But. But I do get down with plenty of stuff in striplings. Like I love to get the, the salmon. I abs or absolutely love to get that. I love to get the. I mean, I go in there, the butcher shop, not only do I get the, the steaks, which are fantastic, but they also have all kinds of stuff that we do. We do all kinds of stuff with, man, we start, start mixing it up in the kitchen. My son loves to cook. So we'll just walk in there, be like, bro, get whatever you want. Like, get what you want. As long as you're cooking it, we good.

[Aaron Taylor]

I love it. And that's the inherent difference between D line and old lineman. Because when I go to a restaurant, they ask me if I have any food restrictions. My first answer is small portions. So we got on one side somebody's psycho about their diet and the other side is like, feed me, get in my belly.

[David Pollock]

Well, I spent a lot of my time eating what I wanted and it didn't always do the best thing for the waistline. So we're trying to, to now limit the damage. Aaron, man, it's been great to talk to you, brother. We will absolutely, I promise we'll do it again. Enjoy your family though, in the off season and we appreciate your time, big dog.

[Aaron Taylor]

Thank you, David. God bless, brother.